Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[Greg N'Ash]

I see. So you believe that he prefers defensive full-backs, Greg? Fair enough, I see what you mean. However, the signing of Warnock seems to disprove that, as he is something of an all-rounder, as most full-backs these days actually aspire to (Maicon, for all his adventure, is an excellent defender). That's not to say that you have to have identical full-backs on either side, but it does show that MON is not ideologically opposed to attacking full-backs.

i think a modern full-back's game involves getting forward. If you don't want that, then its pointless having one, like buying a sports car and not going over 30. i think Warnock has been able to adapt to those limitations imposed on him much better than Young did although he looks uncomfortble sometimes, and while we saw young's performances as good full-back play, MON was less than happy. any right-back brought in will have the same problem adopting his natural game to MON's rather than a centre half like Cuellar who's very happy to punt it to the half-way line all day.

Ridiculous.  Just because Martin prefers safety first fullbacks, which is a conclusion we've drawn and not necessarily 100% accurate, means we punt it long?  These attacking fullbacks you like so much do not run the length of the pitch with the ball, they pass it simple and then advance forward off the ball to recieve it again on an overlap in a crossing position.  So this hardly translates to kick and rush if they do not make those forward runs.

you're missing my point john. i don't think full-backs in the old fashioned "safety-first" mode exist any more. there was a revolution in tactics which seems to have passed MON by, just look at capello preferring cole and johnson for England. so any right-back bought in has to modify his game. it's no wonder he prefers centre-halves that have no ambition to advance past their own penalty area and probably the likes of Cuellar defending is better than a right-back having to modifying his game totally to a defensive role. Someone like the dutch player linked will have the same problems as he's been brought up to play in systems where the full-back has an offensive role and will have to adopt to MON 70's/80's ideas of a fullback

[Ads]

Capello prefers Johnson because there is nobody else. That’s why we play with such a poor defender at right-back. Gary Neville he aint.

[Chris Smith]

I see. So you believe that he prefers defensive full-backs, Greg? Fair enough, I see what you mean. However, the signing of Warnock seems to disprove that, as he is something of an all-rounder, as most full-backs these days actually aspire to (Maicon, for all his adventure, is an excellent defender). That's not to say that you have to have identical full-backs on either side, but it does show that MON is not ideologically opposed to attacking full-backs.

i think a modern full-back's game involves getting forward. If you don't want that, then its pointless having one, like buying a sports car and not going over 30. i think Warnock has been able to adapt to those limitations imposed on him much better than Young did although he looks uncomfortble sometimes, and while we saw young's performances as good full-back play, MON was less than happy. any right-back brought in will have the same problem adopting his natural game to MON's rather than a centre half like Cuellar who's very happy to punt it to the half-way line all day.

Ridiculous.  Just because Martin prefers safety first fullbacks, which is a conclusion we've drawn and not necessarily 100% accurate, means we punt it long?  These attacking fullbacks you like so much do not run the length of the pitch with the ball, they pass it simple and then advance forward off the ball to recieve it again on an overlap in a crossing position.  So this hardly translates to kick and rush if they do not make those forward runs.

you're missing my point john. i don't think full-backs in the old fashioned "safety-first" mode exist any more. there was a revolution in tactics which seems to have passed MON by, just look at capello preferring cole and johnson for England. so any right-back bought in has to modify his game. it's no wonder he prefers centre-halves that have no ambition to advance past their own penalty area and probably the likes of Cuellar defending is better than a right-back having to modifying his game totally to a defensive role. Someone like the dutch player linked will have the same problems as he's been brought up to play in systems where the full-back has an offensive role and will have to adopt to MON 70's/80's ideas of a fullback

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

[SoccerHQ]

Back onto the point we were having a week or two of Spurs apparently having a wage bill lower than ourselves, this story caught my eye:

click

SPURS have handed Luka Modric a £15million six-year deal to fend off Manchester United.

The Croat will bank a 'double your money' £50,000 a week as Harry Redknapp's boys prepare for a Champions League debut.

Now if I'm reading that correctly he was earning 25k a week for the last two seasons? Sidwell was earning more over that time period. Oh dear.

[Risso]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

[Greg N'Ash]

I see. So you believe that he prefers defensive full-backs, Greg? Fair enough, I see what you mean. However, the signing of Warnock seems to disprove that, as he is something of an all-rounder, as most full-backs these days actually aspire to (Maicon, for all his adventure, is an excellent defender). That's not to say that you have to have identical full-backs on either side, but it does show that MON is not ideologically opposed to attacking full-backs.

i think a modern full-back's game involves getting forward. If you don't want that, then its pointless having one, like buying a sports car and not going over 30. i think Warnock has been able to adapt to those limitations imposed on him much better than Young did although he looks uncomfortble sometimes, and while we saw young's performances as good full-back play, MON was less than happy. any right-back brought in will have the same problem adopting his natural game to MON's rather than a centre half like Cuellar who's very happy to punt it to the half-way line all day.

Ridiculous.  Just because Martin prefers safety first fullbacks, which is a conclusion we've drawn and not necessarily 100% accurate, means we punt it long?  These attacking fullbacks you like so much do not run the length of the pitch with the ball, they pass it simple and then advance forward off the ball to recieve it again on an overlap in a crossing position.  So this hardly translates to kick and rush if they do not make those forward runs.

you're missing my point john. i don't think full-backs in the old fashioned "safety-first" mode exist any more. there was a revolution in tactics which seems to have passed MON by, just look at capello preferring cole and johnson for England. so any right-back bought in has to modify his game. it's no wonder he prefers centre-halves that have no ambition to advance past their own penalty area and probably the likes of Cuellar defending is better than a right-back having to modifying his game totally to a defensive role. Someone like the dutch player linked will have the same problems as he's been brought up to play in systems where the full-back has an offensive role and will have to adopt to MON 70's/80's ideas of a fullback

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

yeah i agree. i'm just saying that type of totally defensive full-back in the manner of Cuellar peformances is a rarity nowadays which is probably why him and olof have been his preferred choice

[Ads]

I love the site of Warnock steaming past Young on the overlap and I don’t think O’Neill minds this as the boy can defend as well. He certainly had a few poor games, but by and large he is an excellent player. If we can bring in a player of the same ilk, perhaps this Dutch lad, then we will have one of the finest and most complete defensive units in the league.

[Chris Smith]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

He's a better player all round than Luke Young by quite a distance. He's not an out and out attacking full back in the Ashely Cole style, he does get forward but not all that often in each game.

[Lee]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

.. and also makes us very one dimensional, especially at home. If that was the case Chris, then perhaps I could see his reasons for doing it. It's often noticed that Cuellar does get in some decent positions, either to then try and chip it in behind the opposing fullback (and failing), or more than often than not, just dipping it into Petrovs feet. Then the ball goes back to the CB's and then tapped wide again ad nauseum.

Very rare do we actually take advantage of the positions that he gets himself into. That's not his fault, that's not his specialist position.

[SoccerHQ]

Doyle has a better than 1 in 3 career record.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but I'm gonna hazard a guess at his prem record being not as good as 1 in 3.

Dunno but he got 9 in 33 last season which is pretty close to it and that in a side that created few chances.

Rodallega got 10 in 36 so similar and I'd prefer him.

[SoccerHQ]

I love the site of Warnock steaming past Young on the overlap and I don’t think O’Neill minds this as the boy can defend as well. He certainly had a few poor games, but by and large he is an excellent player. If we can bring in a player of the same ilk, perhaps this Dutch lad, then we will have one of the finest and most complete defensive units in the league.

Trouble is Young chooses not to pass to him all that much!

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Doyle has a better than 1 in 3 career record.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but I'm gonna hazard a guess at his prem record being not as good as 1 in 3.

Dunno but he got 9 in 33 last season which is pretty close to it and that in a side that created few chances.

Would you be happy to pay Mick McCarthy's asking price of £15m, for a goalscoring record like that?

No and if that's the price it won't happen.

Well, that's what he said he would want for him.
Even if it was lower at £12m, it still wouldn't be worth it.
Shows the folly of having a one eyed outlook with the transfer market.

[Concrete John]

you're missing my point john. i don't think full-backs in the old fashioned "safety-first" mode exist any more. there was a revolution in tactics which seems to have passed MON by, just look at capello preferring cole and johnson for England. so any right-back bought in has to modify his game. it's no wonder he prefers centre-halves that have no ambition to advance past their own penalty area and probably the likes of Cuellar defending is better than a right-back having to modifying his game totally to a defensive role. Someone like the dutch player linked will have the same problems as he's been brought up to play in systems where the full-back has an offensive role and will have to adopt to MON 70's/80's ideas of a fullback

And you're missing mine, which is that should Martin see a defense frailty in a fullback (and I'm not saying Young had any) he would not live with it for the sake of any attacking play he might bring.  

If you can attack, then great, but if you can't defend also, then it's pointless.

[Concrete John]

It was telling that in the England game yesterday Ashley Cole's effectiveness increased when he didn't have Lennon in front of him. Playing that sort of full back with Ashley Young would be counter productive. MON likes to have a defensively solid and well disciplined back 4 to give the rest of the side more freedom to push on.

That's all very well, but in Warnock I'd say we have one of the most attacking full backs in the game.  I think Warnock has been largely excellent for us, but he's no more defensively sound than Young, and yet I didn't notice him being replaced by an out of position centre back.

I don't think he's overly attacking, but he's one of the few that can contribute well going forward without any sacrifice to defensive attirbutes.

[Concrete John]

Doyle has a better than 1 in 3 career record.

I don't have any stats to back this up, but I'm gonna hazard a guess at his prem record being not as good as 1 in 3.

Dunno but he got 9 in 33 last season which is pretty close to it and that in a side that created few chances.

Would you be happy to pay Mick McCarthy's asking price of £15m, for a goalscoring record like that?

No and if that's the price it won't happen.

Well, that's what he said he would want for him.
Even if it was lower at £12m, it still wouldn't be worth it.
Shows the folly of having a one eyed outlook with the transfer market.

Lets save the criticism of Martin paying £10m+ for Kevin Doyle until if and when it actually happens.  Which I think it won't!