Summer 2010 Transfer Thread: B*llsh*t, Rumours & Wishes

[cb]

My only question with Keane maybe would be his comitment, and if he wouldn't just up sticks for one last big move in a couple of years time.  But I think he has proven time and again that he is a top class striker, if he gets a season long run in the team, he will get twenty goals in my view.  Because of the reasons mentioned possibly Darren Bent would be a better buy.

I think this year has proved that he is over the hill though. I think the days of him scoring twenty goals a season are over. He's always struck me as a player who has never made the most of his ability, which is something I really don't like in a player though, which is why 8i'd steer well clear.

[DB]

east19 has to be taking the p*ss. We need higher standard of players than that.

[Nastylee]

I'd get Santa Cruz, we were linked when he was at Rovers and he's a target man with a goal scoring record. He's barely kicked a ball this season and that's not likely to improve next year. Also, Parker has to sign. He and Petrov could share that role and then we might be able to take Europe a bit more seriously.

[Guy M]

Petrov's commitment and class is in no doubt for me. He can't be asked to run like he does for 90 minutes of every game.

The effort he put in at the end today despite doing so showed how much it mattered, despite having had lumps kicked out of him. People often say we need to improve the squad by buying better than you've already got and I'd say Parker is similar but only slightly younger and it's not enough.

Either Delph as part of a 5 or someone I assume is amazing because I've heard his name on here a few times (Van der Vaart or Veloso for example) with Petrov's experience and calm head ready to come off the bench late on when a lead needs protecting would work for me.

[Nastylee]

Petrov's commitment and class is in no doubt for me. He can't be asked to run like he does for 90 minutes of every game.

The effort he put in at the end today despite doing so showed how much it mattered, despite having had lumps kicked out of him. People often say we need to improve the squad by buying better than you've already got and I'd say Parker is similar but only slightly younger and it's not enough.

Either Delph as part of a 5 or someone I assume is amazing because I've heard his name on here a few times (Van der Vaart or Veloso for example) with Petrov's experience and calm head ready to come off the bench late on when a lead needs protecting would work for me.

Unfortunately, until (if ever) we make CL 'amazing' players will not join us.

[SoccerHQ]

Get Ireland in and pass up on the other three.

McGeady I've never seen the fuss about, saw him play against that first division team Celtic lost to in the cup and he was total garbage, reminded me a bit of Downing infact.

Doyle would be a better sub than Heskey but I don't want another squad striker, rather a top notch one from somewhere.

[KevinGage]

 
My final point is that, if this system involving poachers like Bent is so potentially successful, why do absolutely no top sides or managers use them? Inter are the closest to doing so, but Eto'o and Milito are far more well rounded than the likes of Bent. If the goal poacher is still relevant, why do all the best managers ignore them except as a substitute role, like Owen, Inzaghi and Defoe for England (even he has worked hard at his all-round game) have become?

How about Defoe for Tottenham?

If we are talking about what is or could be successful for the very top sides like Inter, that's one thing.

But if we are theoretically talking about what might or might not make the difference between Aston Villa finishing 6th or 4th, I really don't see how a consistent, proven goalscorer will handicap us, sorry.

I take the point about our style of play (possibly) being altered to accomodate such a player (personally I don't agree). But even if that were to occur, would it really be less effective or less aesthetically pleasing than what we already offer?

[Monty]

Well, Defoe is a far, far superior all-round player to Darren Bent. He has clearly worked on his team play which, although still not his strong suit, has vastly improved. He may not be able to hold the ball up and bring players into the game like Drogba or even Heskey, but he runs the channels, drifts wide, drops deep and generally works harder than Darren Bent at every turn. He's also got this amazing skill to hit a snapshot on the turn very quickly, which is a goal-out-of-nothing quality Bent does not possess.

The point is about our current financial position as much as anything. Bent would cost a lot of money and would solve a very specific problem that occurs far less than other problems which he would not solve. Yes, he scores goals - when chances are created. We just don't really create that many chances. If we were playing a four in midfield and were creating chance upon chance that our front two were missing (I mention formations because Bent can't "lead the line" on his own for a side dominating the game, IMO), then sure, we should be looking for someone like Bent. But there are, as I say, other problems.

Paulie has mentioned several times that our main problem is that teams think differently about us than they used to - they'd come to VP and, if not go for it, at least be more attacking than they are now. Now they treat us like we're Real Madrid and we can't break them down, and we get practically no space on the break - space that a player like Bent needs.

I sense an "agree to disagree" coming on, I can't say my view has had many supporters. But I stick by it.

[enigma]

I sense an "agree to disagree" coming on, I can't say my view has had many supporters. But I stick by it.

I happen to agree and have said pretty much the same in the past. The days of the out and out poacher have passed, just like the old style number ten has become all but extinct. These days a forward needs to have more strings to his bow than just goal hanging.

[Monty]

I sense an "agree to disagree" coming on, I can't say my view has had many supporters. But I stick by it.

I happen to agree and have said pretty much the same in the past. The days of the out and out poacher have passed, just like the old style number ten has become all but extinct. These days a forward needs to have more strings to his bow than just goal hanging.

You haven't been reading "Inverting the Pyramid", have you? I recognise the analogy between the goal-poacher and the old-style playmaker.

Terrific book, as many people have said, because it deals with how football is "actually played on the field".

[paul_e]

I actually agree with you totally monty.  I don't want Bent and I never have done, there's just not enough to his game and, as was mentioned earlier, if teams play you expecting to have to defend hard for 90mins he provides nothing.  I'd actually rather see the fonz get regular starts than sign someone like that as I've seen enough of him to think he'll score regularly whilst also doing everything else you want in a striker (holding up the ball, bringing midfield into the game, harrying defenders, etc).

We need to find someone up front who plays deeper and comes onto the ball, not a player on the shoulder of the defender as we already have that in the squad.  However, I also don't mean someone like keane as I don't think that would help us in the long term.  

The reality at Villa, regardless of whether any of us like it, is that we're a team that creates on the flanks and works hard in the middle, I don't see that changing, Delph, Petrov and Milner all fit that mould centrally and are creative enough for our needs.  Therefore the type of player we should be going after is a striker who makes crosses look good.  The difference between crossing to a Carew or a Gabby is that you have to cross to them, get it spot on and they score.  The striker we need is one where you cross to an area and he makes something of it.

The easiest way to do that is to have one who hangs back a little and hits the box late.  As they're then coming on at pace they can get height on the jump and get over the ball easier, none of our strikers has that ability.  If we find that player and someone to compete/rotate with petrov we'll be right up there next year.

[Monty]

Here's where I think phrases like "second striker" and "attacking midfielder" become a bit misleading I think, because many of them play in the same places on the field. Paul E, I think you're talking about a Cahill type player, or even a Dempsey, which could definitely be one way around our current problem.

[KevinGage]

Keane for more than £10m? No deal.
Kevin Doyle? No deal.
Aiden McGeady? No deal.
Ireland in part ex for Milner? Fuck off. No deal.

Garry Doyle? Shit NOTW journalist filling column inches with absolute bolx.

You say that, but he does seem to have decent contacts with the Irish squad.

He was saying as early as the end of May last year that Dunne had been approached by a number of clubs but was only interested in a move to Villa.

Sure enough, that's how it panned out. Eventually in late August.

Maybe he takes his lead from other journos at similar papers and devotes his time to punts and semi-educated guesses. But I get the impression he  actually knows some of the Irish lads personally.
I've also heard the 'Keane to Villa in the summer' rumours too much in the last few months to not think there is anything in it.

Would be quite surprised if a move for all four came off, though.

[paul_e]

Sort of, but more just someone doing what Rooney has learned to do this year which is to make sure he gets his head on things, but also doing general 'striker' things as well.

The problem with getting someone like Cahill though is that they'd always want to play facing the goal which limits their ability to dominate the game, a striker doing the same things should be more comfortable with his back to goal and helping work the ball in behind to setup the crosses.  Gabby does this very well but then he tends to either turn and run straight to a spot in the box or he stands still, ditto carew and heskey.  If you watch rooney what he then does is move to the edge of the box and make a break as the cross comes in so he's meeting it not waiting for it.  It's about the hardest skill to learn as a striker though so it's not a common ability as it pretty much goes against every instinct.

[Monty]

I actually think that one of the major problems of having two strikers is that you end up with two players with their backs to goal at the edge of the area, which severely limits your playing style - you will have a shortfall of central midfield options, but two players to get it to for them to hold up. This pretty much means that you end up relying on balls to the edge of the area, as you say, going wide and crosses coming in.

One of the great points of Lampard's play is that he's always facing goal but running from deep, making him so difficult to pick up. With this, you don't really need the striker to make the kind of run you've mentioned, as he could act as the decoy and drag defenders with him, allowing the midfielder coming from deep more space.

We do need to change our style, I think, to compete at the very top level, and I think that means an emphasis on passing through the middle, and for that we need no shortfall in midfield numbers like has so often happened this season and in previous seasons.