Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Smirker on April 10, 2023, 05:37:54 PM
-
Thought I'd get the thread going
I hope its not too soon
This match kicks off on Saturday
At 30 mins past noon
Newcastle are decent
We may well go behind
Could a mod please add a poll
If you could be so kind
FTF 8)
-
No poll. Amateur
-
No poll. Amateur
If I knew how to make one, I would ;D
-
No poll. Amateur
If I knew how to make one, I would ;D
Click the cunningly titled “new poll” button et voila.
-
I’m taking my (cheeky) 7 year old to his first game for this one along with his now seasoned 10 year old brother. It’s refreshing in a recent history sense that it’s a European contender contest rather than a relegation doomfest. That said, just seeing that massive green pitch emerge from the walk up the steps will get anyone hooked really.
-
No poll. Amateur
If I knew how to make one, I would ;D
Click the cunningly titled “new poll” button et voila.
Bloody hell!
-
I've added a poll! Thanks Risso 8)
-
I wish I could re experience that first walk up the steps, simply breathtaking.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
In a city that's got one Tory MP, and he's in the only constituency Small Heath can claim as one of their own.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
In a city that's got one Tory MP, and he's in the only constituency Small Heath can claim as one of their own.
I seem to remember years ago that there was a piece in a newspaper about football and politics, they interviewed a load of Villa players, and not surprisingly young blokes with little education and tonnes of money all said they would vote Tory. I bet John McGinn wouldn’t if he was asked.
-
Nor would Mings.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
In a city that's got one Tory MP, and he's in the only constituency Small Heath can claim as one of their own.
And I’m pretty sure he won’t be after the next election
-
0-2
-
Three points incoming! UTV
-
https://www.facebook.com/reel/767447364975647?fs=e&s=TIeQ9V
-
2-1 - Isak for them, Ollie and Buendia for us. Tight nervy affair. They are very good, but at Villa Park I trust us to just squeak through.
-
Us 5 Them 0. And they don't win another game all season and finish outside the European spots.
-
And the Saudi's pull their blood money from the club putting them into massive debt and they get relegated through FFP violations.
-
An intriguing one. Both teams bang in form. Both teams can stifle the opposition quite well so I'm not expecting a goal-fest. I think they have a bit more nous about them and players who are more consistent than some of our flair chaps (Buendia/Leon/Bert) so I wouldn't be too disappointed with a draw.
-
Do we play the extra midfielder (Donk or Chambers) or trust Bert? There's an argument both really.
-
Do we play the extra midfielder (Donk or Chambers) or trust Bert? There's an argument both really.
Start with Bert, bring the Donk on to cool things down when we're 3-0 up.
-
I think we might lose this, which would be really, really fucking annoying, because humping them and helping piss all over their Champions League dreams would be brilliant.
-
And the Saudi's pull their blood money from the club putting them into massive debt and they get relegated through FFP violations.
And our game gets called off and put as last game of the season
(https://www.bing.com/th?id=OIP.YubD7Pk6G4bL-GPknO0lcgHaE7&pid=3.1&cb=&w=300&h=300&p=0)
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
I've known four Newcastle fans in my life (all twats) and three have been vocal Tories. Maybe I'll adopt that as a reason to dislike them - I can pop it alongside the delusion, the media fawning, their ownership, and their large contingent of fat, shirtless crybabies.
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
Wasn't it the 'Ant and Dec' one that got their back up? I can't remember.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
I've known four Newcastle fans in my life (all twats) and three have been vocal Tories. Maybe I'll adopt that as a reason to dislike them - I can pop it alongside the delusion, the media fawning, their ownership, and their large contingent of fat, shirtless crybabies.
Don’t forget the horse puncher.
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
I dunno, I have to admit I did have a bit of a laugh.
I was sat near some geordies in the family stand and they were giving the ‘we’ve come to see you relegated’. Then they realised that Sunderland had beaten Chelsea and they disappeared fairly quickly
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
I've known four Newcastle fans in my life (all twats) and three have been vocal Tories. Maybe I'll adopt that as a reason to dislike them - I can pop it alongside the delusion, the media fawning, their ownership, and their large contingent of fat, shirtless crybabies.
Don’t forget the horse puncher.
Yep, true so.
-
(https://www.readytogo.net/smb/media/whos-your-next-messiah.346/full?d=1551371089)
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
Wasn't it the 'Ant and Dec' one that got their back up? I can't remember.
That wasn't funny either.
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
Wasn't it the 'Ant and Dec' one that got their back up? I can't remember.
That wasn't funny either.
It was meant to wind them up and it worked.
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
I dunno, I have to admit I did have a bit of a laugh.
I was sat near some geordies in the family stand and they were giving the ‘we’ve come to see you relegated’. Then they realised that Sunderland had beaten Chelsea and they disappeared fairly quickly
Yep, that's what was funny. Load of them turning up in clown and joker masks/costumes, expecting us to be as upset to go down as they were in 2009. But we'd had six months to accept it, and the occasion just turned into another opportunity to laugh at them.
Most people laughed at them getting relegated, most people laughed at us getting relegated, and most people will laugh if Everton get relegated. I've never understood their fragile egos and inability to grasp that.
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
Wasn't it the 'Ant and Dec' one that got their back up? I can't remember.
That wasn't funny either.
It was meant to wind them up and it worked.
I guess. It just always strikes me that banners say a lot more about the adult human that's gone to all the effort of making them than they do about their intended target.
-
Not confident on this one. The last 2 defeats were against better teams and this one is on good form.
1-2
-
That’s what some of them are saying about us, so it should be a cracking match!
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
I dunno, I have to admit I did have a bit of a laugh.
I was sat near some geordies in the family stand and they were giving the ‘we’ve come to see you relegated’. Then they realised that Sunderland had beaten Chelsea and they disappeared fairly quickly
Yep, that's what was funny. Load of them turning up in clown and joker masks/costumes, expecting us to be as upset to go down as they were in 2009. But we'd had six months to accept it, and the occasion just turned into another opportunity to laugh at them.
Most people laughed at them getting relegated, most people laughed at us getting relegated, and most people will laugh if Everton get relegated. I've never understood their fragile egos and inability to grasp that.
Yes, they seem to really hate us. But when a big team gets relegated, itis funny. I expected other fans to laugh at us when we went down inn2016.
-
Don't think they're that bothered by us, some seem happy that us and them are trying to break this big 6 nonsense spouted by the media.
-
The Ant and Dec banner was funny. The context.
It was because they were giving it the large one about Keegan going back 18!Months earlier and recreating past glories it would be like us rehiring Brian Little in 2008.
The ‘We’ll Meet Again was funnier’
I lived in Nottingham at the time and new a fair few exiles from everywhere in UK. The 2 Toon fans I knew thought both were funny ‘You Brummie Bastard’ they said in Georgie stereo
-
The trouble with that banner was that it wasn't in any way funny.
I dunno, I have to admit I did have a bit of a laugh.
I was sat near some geordies in the family stand and they were giving the ‘we’ve come to see you relegated’. Then they realised that Sunderland had beaten Chelsea and they disappeared fairly quickly
Yep, that's what was funny. Load of them turning up in clown and joker masks/costumes, expecting us to be as upset to go down as they were in 2009. But we'd had six months to accept it, and the occasion just turned into another opportunity to laugh at them.
Most people laughed at them getting relegated, most people laughed at us getting relegated, and most people will laugh if Everton get relegated. I've never understood their fragile egos and inability to grasp that.
Yes, they seem to really hate us. But when a big team gets relegated, itis funny. I expected other fans to laugh at us when we went down inn2016.
I had the piss taken constantly throughout that season. What can you do but smile and take it? Anything else makes you look like a humourless bellend, or a West Brom fan.
After a couple of jokes it's normally then that the okay fans of other clubs will have a decent conversation with you about football, and the wanker fans won't.
-
The banner was a back handed compliment. If they were a small, nobody club like Norwich then nobody would have laughed or mocked their relegation.
It was a shit banner though. But I can't understand why some are still pissed off about it.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
So they're oblivious to the the brutal fascist regime that's pouring money into their club so long as they win some shiny trophies? Ok then. However I'd much prefer to keep politics out of football. I've never had any issues with them previously and I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar. This will be a very tough game for both teams. I think/hope we can edge it so I'll go for a 2-1 win for the boys in claret and blue who I'm very proud to say hail from one of the most working class areas of the city.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
So they're oblivious to the the brutal fascist regime that's pouring money into their club so long as they win some shiny trophies? Ok then. However I'd much prefer to keep politics out of football. I've never had any issues with them previously and I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar. This will be a very tough game for both teams. I think/hope we can edge it so I'll go for a 2-1 win for the boys in claret and blue who I'm very proud to say hail from one of the most working class areas of the city.
We're better looking, though.
-
We’re for sure better looking. I’d honestly rather be a Newcastle fan than a Tory.
I hope we pump this lot, really not keen on their being sugar daddied by human rights abusers.
-
We’re for sure better looking. I’d honestly rather be a Newcastle fan than a Tory.
+1
-
I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar.
In 50 plus years of watching the Villa I have never gone topless in a stadium.
-
We’re for sure better looking. I’d honestly rather be a Newcastle fan than a Tory.
+1
Ehhhhhhhh not sure.
Anyway, have rarely wanted a Villa league win more than this one. AND I'll be there in person with my dad and brother as we're also seeing my Villa-fan Nan after a recent spell in hospital. She'd love us to win this one.
So, with all that in mind, I deeply apologise lads.
-
I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar.
In 50 plus years of watching the Villa I have never gone topless in a stadium.
On the surface, this is a proud boast. I have it on good authority, though, that you've seldom been seen in a pair of trousers in all that time.
-
On one their forums they're quite please that Kamara isn't likely to play and it will help their midfield. I'd love it if Bouba is somehow declared fit on Saturday!
-
1-1
Tommy Johnson for us. Les Ferdinand for them.
-
Surprisingly this has become a massive game. I will always be a Villa fan and therefore always expect the absolute worst.
0-4 and all media outlets to wet themselves with glee that massive Newcastle have put little Villa in their place.
-
I quite like Newcastle really. Seems a fun city, and the few Geordies I've met have been sound.
Tough match, hard to predict which way it'll go. It's just nice to go in to games like this and feel we might get something. It's been a while.
-
So here we have a test, not that the previous games haven't been competitive but now we are somewhat above the radar, we will be scrutinised as to how we cope with a team above us. And in good form. And it's live on TV.
I trust the Manager and his approach to games such as this, he will give it due consideration and if we do come up short, which I believe we may, it won't be by much if the recent past is anything to go by. We don't lose many but we might lose this one and in a funny way, while it won't help our European push it might take the heat out of things just for a short time.
It's just a shame that a game such as this has the shadow of a murderous regime hanging over it.
1-2
-
Newcastle for the most part *shrugs* who cares?
But sky and the bbc constantly telling me what a “great thing” it is for the city/region that Newcastle have new owners is doing my nut in.
FFS! To the best of my knowledge Mike Ashley didn’t have anybody beheaded.
-
I think that this will be a defining game of the season for us, win and we can start thinking of going to Moldova etc.. lose and it may just make the rest of the season very tough for us to qualify for European football
I think it will be 3-2 (just not sure who will win)
-
Both teams in good form. Their's now better than ours over the past 5.
We've not been as strong at home, but we're improving. They are a solid unit.
I suspect we'll see Traore in for Bailey, though I wouldn't be surprised to see Dendoncker instead with Ramsey pushing further forward, or Digne in at left back with Moreno in front of him.
Tight game, head says draw, heart says let's do them.
-
I think this will be a tight game and a 0-0 which is unheard of under Emery.
-
There will be goals for us and that's what matters. Think we'll win, 2-0 perhaps.
-
FFS! To the best of my knowledge Mike Ashley didn’t have anybody beheaded.
Their new owners are thoroughly horrible, and I entirely agree they should not be allowed involvement in English football.
However, I'll add to that, Mike Ashley is a truly horrible, horrible wanker all the same, a properly reprehensible person, and was a terrible owner for them.
-
Thought long and hard about this one. Tricky. Need longer.
Feck it, Unai masterclass, 1-0 to the Villa.
-
I'm going for a 2-1 Villa win.
-
I think this will be a tight game and a 0-0 which is unheard of under Emery.
I think we're on the longest run for scoring in consecutive league games this season?
-
Would love us to win this match but feel that a draw wouldn’t be a bad result for us. This season is a really strange one as, on the day, I don’t fear any team. I think we’ve got so used to losing to certain teams but, somehow it feels different now.
-
I can't see anything but a draw for this game. 1-1
-
This game will be more open than the Forest game.
Newcastle are full of confidence and will want to go at us.
Need us to continue our good defensive run, keep it tight.
2-1 Villa
-
I like Newcastle as a city, however apart from a brief period of weakness in the mid 90s, when they had Ginola flying down the wing, Asprilla doing his thing and the Belgian fella in defence, i really don’t have much time for the football team and everything that surrounds it.
Its a one club city, thats why they get 50k gates, if blues and west brom didn’t exist thats another 30-40k supporters for us. Whenever they have struggled their attendances have dropped off like every other club, but you’d never believe it given the mythology thats built up, best supporters in the world through thick and thin and all that shite.
Im sure their fanbase is made up of sound people and twats much like ours and every other club, abd I don’t envy their moral dilemma of wanting to win but knowing they are owned by Saudi Arabia.
In terms of Saturday I’m nervously excited already, it feels like the biggest match of the season, which I’m surprised I’m saying after beating man utd for first time in a lifetime.
They have only lost 3 games all season, which takes some doing, so they are going to be incredibly hard to beat, even with our form. I genuinely think it could go either way, so ultimately think it will a draw 2-2…..but i would love it…just love if we beat them….last minute winner for Ollie anyone??
-
We don't have anybody to fear, and I don't think they'll be daft enough to think that our non-performance earlier in the season will have any bearing on the weekend's game. I don't think we've played especially well in the games against Leicester and Forest, so will have to up the performance levels, but Emery has already said as much so don't think there'll be any complacency. Apparently they were a bit shit first half against Brentford, so it's not just us who aren't entirely consistent at the moment.
I think player for player the two teams are fairy well matched, although the thought of Saint-Maximin up against Young worries me a bit.
On the place and people, I think it's a great city, and have never met a proper fan in the wild, other than a few "second favourite team, love a bit of Newky Brown, me" types during the Keegan years.
-
We don't have anybody to fear, and I don't think they'll be daft enough to think that our non-performance earlier in the season will have any bearing on the weekend's game. I don't think we've played especially well in the games against Leicester and Forest, so will have to up the performance levels, but Emery has already said as much so don't think there'll be any complacency. Apparently they were a bit shit first half against Brentford, so it's not just us who aren't entirely consistent at the moment.
I think player for player the two teams are fairy well matched, although the thought of Saint-Maximin up against Young worries me a bit.
On the place and people, I think it's a great city, and have never met a proper fan in the wild, other than a few "second favourite team, love a bit of Newky Brown, me" types during the Keegan years.
Cashy will be back
-
Yes we looked off the pace a bit on Saturday but it was our third game in less than a week so we'll be bang up for this after a few days rest. 2-1 home win.
-
I worked with a guy who was a Newcastle fan. Lovely bloke, good at his job, helpful - really knew his football and didn't take it all too seriously. Sadly he took his own life last year. RIP Jim.
-
What a feeling this is to go into a top of the table game against a very decent team but having faith that we will be giving it one hell of a go.
A little worried by our growing injury list so would be a little more comforted by knowing maybe Cash and Bouba were back in contention
We are not hearing anything about PC so have no idea if he is even training
The most important thing is that they will come to win, rather than parking the bus, and that will give us opportunities to get behind them.
This could be a cracker
1-0 us - Watkins
-
I worked with a guy who was a Newcastle fan. Lovely bloke, good at his job, helpful - really knew his football and didn't take it all too seriously. Sadly he took his own life last year. RIP Jim.
Bloody hell hilts, keep it light!
(Sorry to hear that, mental health in men is still not taken seriously enough. RIP to your mate.)
-
What a feeling this is to go into a top of the table game against a very decent team but having faith that we will be giving it one hell of a go.
A little worried by our growing injury list so would be a little more comforted by knowing maybe Cash and Bouba were back in contention
We are not hearing anything about PC so have no idea if he is even training
The most important thing is that they will come to win, rather than parking the bus, and that will give us opportunities to get behind them.
This could be a cracker
1-0 us - Watkins
In his last press conference before the Forest match Emery said that all of Cash, Kamara and Coutibho were two weeks off being back in training, so I wouldn't expect to see any of them for the Newcastle match
-
We don't have anybody to fear, and I don't think they'll be daft enough to think that our non-performance earlier in the season will have any bearing on the weekend's game. I don't think we've played especially well in the games against Leicester and Forest, so will have to up the performance levels, but Emery has already said as much so don't think there'll be any complacency. Apparently they were a bit shit first half against Brentford, so it's not just us who aren't entirely consistent at the moment.
I think player for player the two teams are fairy well matched, although the thought of Saint-Maximin up against Young worries me a bit.
On the place and people, I think it's a great city, and have never met a proper fan in the wild, other than a few "second favourite team, love a bit of Newky Brown, me" types during the Keegan years.
Yep, agree. They will be desperate to win it of course, for their own Top 4 ambitions.
I play 5-a-side with two Newcastle fans and they are both insufferable, arrogant arses.
-
What a feeling this is to go into a top of the table game against a very decent team but having faith that we will be giving it one hell of a go.
A little worried by our growing injury list so would be a little more comforted by knowing maybe Cash and Bouba were back in contention
We are not hearing anything about PC so have no idea if he is even training
The most important thing is that they will come to win, rather than parking the bus, and that will give us opportunities to get behind them.
This could be a cracker
1-0 us - Watkins
Actually, they do park the bus a bit, keep it tight and hit on the break. They are also masters at slowing the game down and general shithousery. I think it will be attritional.
-
We don't have anybody to fear, and I don't think they'll be daft enough to think that our non-performance earlier in the season will have any bearing on the weekend's game. I don't think we've played especially well in the games against Leicester and Forest, so will have to up the performance levels, but Emery has already said as much so don't think there'll be any complacency. Apparently they were a bit shit first half against Brentford, so it's not just us who aren't entirely consistent at the moment.
I think player for player the two teams are fairy well matched, although the thought of Saint-Maximin up against Young worries me a bit.
On the place and people, I think it's a great city, and have never met a proper fan in the wild, other than a few "second favourite team, love a bit of Newky Brown, me" types during the Keegan years.
Cashy will be back
Saint-Maximin has a hamstring injury and not expected to return on Saturday.
As Rambo said, they've only lost 3 all season which is amazing and no surprise they have the best defence in the league having only conceded 21 goals (us, 40). Should be a very interesting game. I have a lot of time for Eddie Howe and the way he is building things there, just a shame once again they are owned by scumbags.
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult. Football is sanitised enough without them getting all precious, we'd have done the same to plenty of other teams that really shouldn't be getting relegated so they shouldn't take it personally, their nothing special.
I've said before, I look forward to the day the media refer to them as 'United' rather than those plastics at Old Trafford. Now there's a team to hate. Whilst they'll never have the humility of the Mackems, the geordies are generally a decent bunch. How long that lasts with their billions is anybodies guess. Look at Man City..
-
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult.
Let's face it, if the roles had been reversed we'd be pissing on about it until the universe collapses. No slight, real or perceived, is ever forgiven or forgotten by football fans.
-
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult.
Let's face it, if the roles had been reversed we'd be pissing on about it until the universe collapses. No slight, real or perceived, is ever forgiven or forgotten by football fans.
I think we tend to be pretty sanguine about all the shit that has come our way over the years.
-
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult.
Let's face it, if the roles had been reversed we'd be pissing on about it until the universe collapses. No slight, real or perceived, is ever forgiven or forgotten by football fans.
Nah! It was all harmless piss taking, a bit of a giggle on a bright sunny day, last home game of the season. What made it even funnier is they couldn't understand why we did it. Maybe they truly believe they're everyone's second favourite team.
-
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult.
Let's face it, if the roles had been reversed we'd be pissing on about it until the universe collapses. No slight, real or perceived, is ever forgiven or forgotten by football fans.
They came down to put that right when we were going down, only by that point we'd all long accepted we were gone and they ended up only drawing and got relegated themselves.
-
Never understood their tears and endless moaning of how we took the piss when they were relegated, as somebody mentioned, they should take it as a compliment not an insult.
Let's face it, if the roles had been reversed we'd be pissing on about it until the universe collapses. No slight, real or perceived, is ever forgiven or forgotten by football fans.
They came down to put that right when we were going down, only by that point we'd all long accepted we were gone and they ended up only drawing and got relegated themselves.
Yes, we were so bad then that piss taking was pointless.
-
Nobody could've taken the piss out of us back then more or with less mercy than we did.
-
Nobody could've taken the piss out of us back then more or with less mercy than we did.
Paper aeroplanes raining down from holte against Chelsea, heady days!
-
Unfortunately I do think this game might be a bit of a reality check for us. Recent results have obviously been great but thought some players have looked a little leggy late on against Leicester and very much against Forest. With our injuries I think we might struggle with the intensity of what they will likely bring in terms of pace and power. I think it's clear Emery doesn't really rate the Donk but I think he has to start with McGinn pushing further forward. Would prefer to retain Traore in reserve for now.
------------Martinez
Young, Konsa, Mings, Moreno
------------Luiz, Donk
McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey
_-------------Ollie
-
That game against Newcastle was a very rare high point of the season. The utter hilarity of the inflatables protest, which was a great spectacle from the Lower Holte looking towards the Upper, and then realising we might actually get a point.
-
Twice they turned up at ours needing to beat Villa sides of somewhat varying quality. Twice they failed. It was funny the first time, it was fucking pant-wettingly hilarious the second time. If those memories ever stop tickling me I might knock this supporting malarkey on the head.
Honestly, I'm giggling to myself thinking about it right now.
-
Unfortunately I do think this game might be a bit of a reality check for us. Recent results have obviously been great but thought some players have looked a little leggy late on against Leicester and very much against Forest. With our injuries I think we might struggle with the intensity of what they will likely bring in terms of pace and power. I think it's clear Emery doesn't really rate the Donk but I think he has to start with McGinn pushing further forward. Would prefer to retain Traore in reserve for now.
------------Martinez
Young, Konsa, Mings, Moreno
------------Luiz, Donk
McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey
_-------------Ollie
I would go with this a well, with Traore coming on if we need something second half. Dougie is brilliant but need something along side him to handle that big lump Joelinton barging through the midfield.
-
Twice they turned up at ours needing to beat Villa sides of somewhat varying quality. Twice they failed. It was funny the first time, it was fucking pant-wettingly hilarious the second time. If those memories ever stop tickling me I might knock this supporting malarkey on the head.
Honestly, I'm giggling to myself thinking about it right now.
Same. Funnily enough, one of the few people who seemed to take the joke was Shearer. He's always pretty positive and respectful about us.
(Cue a barrage of examples of Shearer being a bitter bastard towards us that I've failed to notice.)
In fact, I still occasionally Youtube the game from whatever year when Dyer & Bowyer got into that fight. Always makes me chuckle.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
So they're oblivious to the the brutal fascist regime that's pouring money into their club so long as they win some shiny trophies? Ok then. However I'd much prefer to keep politics out of football. I've never had any issues with them previously and I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar. This will be a very tough game for both teams. I think/hope we can edge it so I'll go for a 2-1 win for the boys in claret and blue who I'm very proud to say hail from one of the most working class areas of the city.
We're better looking, though.
Speak for yourself. I've got a face you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley!! But I'm a nice person really :D
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
So they're oblivious to the the brutal fascist regime that's pouring money into their club so long as they win some shiny trophies? Ok then. However I'd much prefer to keep politics out of football. I've never had any issues with them previously and I've always thought of our fan bases as pretty similar. This will be a very tough game for both teams. I think/hope we can edge it so I'll go for a 2-1 win for the boys in claret and blue who I'm very proud to say hail from one of the most working class areas of the city.
We're better looking, though.
Speak for yourself. I've got a face you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley!! But I'm a nice person
Even if that were true, you'd still probably be able to make it as a male model in Newcastle.
-
Unfortunately I do think this game might be a bit of a reality check for us. Recent results have obviously been great but thought some players have looked a little leggy late on against Leicester and very much against Forest. With our injuries I think we might struggle with the intensity of what they will likely bring in terms of pace and power. I think it's clear Emery doesn't really rate the Donk but I think he has to start with McGinn pushing further forward. Would prefer to retain Traore in reserve for now.
------------Martinez
Young, Konsa, Mings, Moreno
------------Luiz, Donk
McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey
_-------------Ollie
I’d agree with a lot of this, especially the power part. We’ve got to compete physically in midfield which is why I’d put McGinn central.
They play on the break a lot and this is where the pace element comes into it. Normally I’d be less than confident of getting anything but I’m 100% sure Emery has a plan.
Their weak point is left back but I don’t think we have the pace to worry them there so it’s all down to the game plan and we do have a top level coach. Maybe Duran coming on for a decent period could help with the physical side of it.
Anyway, 2-1 Villa with McGinn and Watkins winning it for us.
-
Worth pointing out that Newcastle somehow failed to beat Derby in 2008 season too. Nearly lost both games in fact
-
Unfortunately I do think this game might be a bit of a reality check for us. Recent results have obviously been great but thought some players have looked a little leggy late on against Leicester and very much against Forest. With our injuries I think we might struggle with the intensity of what they will likely bring in terms of pace and power. I think it's clear Emery doesn't really rate the Donk but I think he has to start with McGinn pushing further forward. Would prefer to retain Traore in reserve for now.
------------Martinez
Young, Konsa, Mings, Moreno
------------Luiz, Donk
McGinn, Buendia, Ramsey
_-------------Ollie
I would go with this a well, with Traore coming on if we need something second half. Dougie is brilliant but need something along side him to handle that big lump Joelinton barging through the midfield.
He hasn't changed from 4 4 2 and I don't think he will suddenly change for Saturday.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
-
Is that from 2016, PWS? I don't think I've seen it before. Please tell me it is.
-
Is that from 2016, PWS? I don't think I've seen it before. Please tell me it is.
It is indeed from the 0-0 in 2016.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
😅 ah what a fucking beauty.
There were loads of them dressed like that. Appropriate, really, because one of the few things more terrifying than a clown is the jiggling wall of blubber that goes with any visit from the toon army.
Also, if you look at the two directly in front of him, the one in sunglasses has stolen the forehead of the other one in order to double up his own.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
😅 ah what a fucking beauty.
There were loads of them dressed like that. Appropriate, really, because one of the few things more terrifying than a clown is the jiggling wall of blubber that goes with any visit from the toon army.
I’m not Gary Neville’s biggest fan but he did make me laugh the other week. He said that they all like taking their tops off but tend to have the same physique.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
😅 ah what a fucking beauty.
There were loads of them dressed like that. Appropriate, really, because one of the few things more terrifying than a clown is the jiggling wall of blubber that goes with any visit from the toon army.
I’m not Gary Neville’s biggest fan but he did make me laugh the other week. He said that they all like taking their tops off but tend to have the same physique.
Haha. Thing is, I'm approaching it from the point of view of a man who'd look just as unsightly as all but the most cetacean of them. That's one of the reasons I keep my shirt on.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
😅 ah what a fucking beauty.
There were loads of them dressed like that. Appropriate, really, because one of the few things more terrifying than a clown is the jiggling wall of blubber that goes with any visit from the toon army.
I’m not Gary Neville’s biggest fan but he did make me laugh the other week. He said that they all like taking their tops off but tend to have the same physique.
Haha. Thing is, I'm approaching it from the point of view of a man who'd look just as unsightly as all but the most cetacean of them. That's one of the reasons I keep my shirt on.
And that’s the way it should be. Maybe though as a 1 off it’s a tops off for all us blokes at the final whistle when we beat them on Saturday. That would be worth more than any mask or banner.
-
(https://wp.inews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Newcy.jpg)
😅 ah what a fucking beauty.
There were loads of them dressed like that. Appropriate, really, because one of the few things more terrifying than a clown is the jiggling wall of blubber that goes with any visit from the toon army.
I’m not Gary Neville’s biggest fan but he did make me laugh the other week. He said that they all like taking their tops off but tend to have the same physique.
Haha. Thing is, I'm approaching it from the point of view of a man who'd look just as unsightly as all but the most cetacean of them. That's one of the reasons I keep my shirt on.
And that’s the way it should be. Maybe though as a 1 off it’s a tops off for all us blokes at the final whistle when we beat them on Saturday. That would be worth more than any mask or banner.
Please, god no!
I think we're due a bump anyway. Based on nothing but sod's law, I think it'll be 3-1 to them.
-
Think we’ll win this, going for 1-0, they’re due a dodgy performance. We’re due a good performance against them.
-
(https://i.ibb.co/x5Gh9RR/FD49-D99-F-AB11-4-DC0-945-A-E3-AA2-E24-BDC0.jpg) (https://ibb.co/x5Gh9RR)
-
Think we’ll win this, going for 1-0, they’re due a dodgy performance. We’re due a good performance against them.
Best them 2-0 in this fixture last season and the season before :-X
-
As well as we've been playing I feel with been quite lucky in a few games on this run. Unfortunately, I think Newcastle will be too good for us and our luck will run out.
-
I don't think we've been lucky at all. In the last 8 games we've lost one and drawn one where we've been unlucky at key moments (the Arsenal 3rd and the soft penalty for West Ham) but I can't think of any goals we've scored where we've been lucky or any chances against us that have been missed where the opponent was unlucky. There have been times where an opponent should've done better but I'm not sure I'd say it's lucky if, for example, Mudryk can't kick a ball properly.
I don't think anyone (in that run) has completely outplayed us and had us hanging on, I don't think anyone has created masses of chances that they've just not been able to convert and I don't think we've had a game where we've scored from nothing.
-
This is going to be a tough game. Newcastle (some how) have a really good defence.
I'd love it if we beat them, love it.
I'd suggest Traore deserves a start, but they to play down the wings a lot and worry we'll need our wide players to really put in a shift.
-
I don't think we've been lucky at all. In the last 8 games we've lost one and drawn one where we've been unlucky at key moments (the Arsenal 3rd and the soft penalty for West Ham) but I can't think of any goals we've scored where we've been lucky or any chances against us that have been missed where the opponent was unlucky. There have been times where an opponent should've done better but I'm not sure I'd say it's lucky if, for example, Mudryk can't kick a ball properly.
I don't think anyone (in that run) has completely outplayed us and had us hanging on, I don't think anyone has created masses of chances that they've just not been able to convert and I don't think we've had a game where we've scored from nothing.
I think you're right Paul. The one game where I think the result flattered us was Leeds at home, but back then we were still in the getting used to Emery's way of playing phase. Since then, we've controlled games and got what we deserve in all of them. We haven't played brilliantly in all of them of course, but then no team does.
-
I don't think we've been lucky at all. In the last 8 games we've lost one and drawn one where we've been unlucky at key moments (the Arsenal 3rd and the soft penalty for West Ham) but I can't think of any goals we've scored where we've been lucky or any chances against us that have been missed where the opponent was unlucky. There have been times where an opponent should've done better but I'm not sure I'd say it's lucky if, for example, Mudryk can't kick a ball properly.
I don't think anyone (in that run) has completely outplayed us and had us hanging on, I don't think anyone has created masses of chances that they've just not been able to convert and I don't think we've had a game where we've scored from nothing.
I think you're right Paul. The one game where I think the result flattered us was Leeds at home, but back then we were still in the getting used to Emery's way of playing phase. Since then, we've controlled games and got what we deserve in all of them. We haven't played brilliantly in all of them of course, but then no team does.
I don't think we got what we deserved against Leicester at home, we were much the better side. And though I hugely enjoyed the Chelsea win, I'm not sure I'd describe us as the better side on the day. We had two shots on target, and scored with both of them, while conceding TWENTY SEVEN shots against our own goal. That's worse than at the end of Dean's reign. I think those two results balance each other out though :-)
-
I don't think we've been lucky at all. In the last 8 games we've lost one and drawn one where we've been unlucky at key moments (the Arsenal 3rd and the soft penalty for West Ham) but I can't think of any goals we've scored where we've been lucky or any chances against us that have been missed where the opponent was unlucky. There have been times where an opponent should've done better but I'm not sure I'd say it's lucky if, for example, Mudryk can't kick a ball properly.
I don't think anyone (in that run) has completely outplayed us and had us hanging on, I don't think anyone has created masses of chances that they've just not been able to convert and I don't think we've had a game where we've scored from nothing.
I think you're right Paul. The one game where I think the result flattered us was Leeds at home, but back then we were still in the getting used to Emery's way of playing phase. Since then, we've controlled games and got what we deserve in all of them. We haven't played brilliantly in all of them of course, but then no team does.
I don't think we got what we deserved against Leicester at home, we were much the better side. And though I hugely enjoyed the Chelsea win, I'm not sure I'd describe us as the better side on the day. We had two shots on target, and scored with both of them, while conceding TWENTY SEVEN shots against our own goal. That's worse than at the end of Dean's reign. I think those two results balance each other out though :-)
Arguably we were unfortunate not to win at West Ham too, their penalty was a joke of a decision, but whether we did enough after that to go on and win it I guess is debatable. The Arsenal game too, we did lose control of that game but the key third goal that beat us was a once in a season type fluke.
On the flip side, Traore has benefitted hugely from two daft defensive errors in the last two games when we were making heavy weather of beating two very average teams. Soft red card for Leicester and Forest had a guy walk/limp off, both were key moments too that went in our favour.
Just think we are running on empty a bit (likes of McGinn have played some amount of games for club and country of late) and Newcastle might expose that at the weekend. Think Emery has got away with some silly selection decisions like Ramsey on the right to accomodate Bailey in recent games. Options are increasingly limited for the weekend unfortunately. Our bench is going to be very weak.
-
Well it depends how you define luck (and I'm not looking for a debate on semantics Paul!) I think payers passing directly to Bertie for his two goals is fortunate. So is players missing open goals / easy chances - Souttar's miss was remarkable (I know it shouldn't have been a corner). I think we were fortunate that Young got the foul for the push in the box to chalk off a goal. VAR also disallowed Southampton goal for a pretty soft foul on Ramsey. The Solanke offside decision was correct, but incredibly tight and could have gone either way depending on the frame VAR chose to use.
You may not think any of this is luck, but they are moments in games that could have gone either way. It feels to me that more have gone our way than I'd usually expect. I've certainly been walking away from games thinking we've got away with it a bit there, which is really the only barometer I need.
I also think Watkins is taking chances at an unsustainable rate. That's certainly not luck, but I don't think it's realistic that it will carry on either.
-
Well it depends how you define luck (and I'm not looking for a debate on semantics Paul!) I think payers passing directly to Bertie for his two goals is fortunate. So is players missing open goals / easy chances - Souttar's miss was remarkable (I know it shouldn't have been a corner). I think we were fortunate that Young got the foul for the push in the box to chalk off a goal. VAR also disallowed Southampton goal for a pretty soft foul on Ramsey. The Solanke offside decision was correct, but incredibly tight and could have gone either way depending on the frame VAR chose to use.
You may not think any of this is luck, but they are moments in games that could have gone either way. It feels to me that more have gone our way than I'd usually expect. I've certainly been walking away from games thinking we've got away with it a bit there, which is really the only barometer I need.
I also think Watkins is taking chances at an unsustainable rate. That's certainly not luck, but I don't think it's realistic that it will carry on either.
You say those misplaced passes are fortunate, but at Leicester we'd had them pinned in since the sending off with our measured, controlled play. The pressure leads to errors.
-
True. But it was an incredibly bad pass, almost a perfect layoff.
-
Well it depends how you define luck (and I'm not looking for a debate on semantics Paul!) I think payers passing directly to Bertie for his two goals is fortunate. So is players missing open goals / easy chances - Souttar's miss was remarkable (I know it shouldn't have been a corner). I think we were fortunate that Young got the foul for the push in the box to chalk off a goal. VAR also disallowed Southampton goal for a pretty soft foul on Ramsey. The Solanke offside decision was correct, but incredibly tight and could have gone either way depending on the frame VAR chose to use.
You may not think any of this is luck, but they are moments in games that could have gone either way. It feels to me that more have gone our way than I'd usually expect. I've certainly been walking away from games thinking we've got away with it a bit there, which is really the only barometer I need.
I also think Watkins is taking chances at an unsustainable rate. That's certainly not luck, but I don't think it's realistic that it will carry on either.
Don’t you think how we approach the game and set ourselves up as a team in an attacking sense is the reason why we get our goals? Unforced errors like the Winner v Leicester is down to that surely. They’re down to 10 men, we’re pressing them making an unforced error more likely.
-
It's not luck, and to say it is does a huge disservice to our manager.
-
It's not luck, and to say it is does a huge disservice to our manager.
You say potato. So do I tbf, but you know what I mean.
It doesn't mean I don't think Emery is doing a good job. I think he's great and has got us playing some excellent football. But equally, I feel we've been fortunate with some of the results. The chances created vs chances conceded would seem to bare this out.
-
Well it depends how you define luck (and I'm not looking for a debate on semantics Paul!) I think payers passing directly to Bertie for his two goals is fortunate. So is players missing open goals / easy chances - Souttar's miss was remarkable (I know it shouldn't have been a corner). I think we were fortunate that Young got the foul for the push in the box to chalk off a goal. VAR also disallowed Southampton goal for a pretty soft foul on Ramsey. The Solanke offside decision was correct, but incredibly tight and could have gone either way depending on the frame VAR chose to use.
You may not think any of this is luck, but they are moments in games that could have gone either way. It feels to me that more have gone our way than I'd usually expect. I've certainly been walking away from games thinking we've got away with it a bit there, which is really the only barometer I need.
I also think Watkins is taking chances at an unsustainable rate. That's certainly not luck, but I don't think it's realistic that it will carry on either.
I think players making mistakes isn't luck, it's something that happens as a result of pressure, that includes misplaced passes and missed chances.
The others are all 'correct' decisions. You might think some of them were lucky but I don't think any were as bad as the one given against in the west ham game and none were even close to the genuinely bad decisions over the last weekend. Brighton were unlucky to come up against a ref and VAR that fucked them over repeatedly, no one we've played can have a legitimate complaint like that.
-
Luck works both ways.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
-
Just had a quick look at one of their forums, and they seem quite bitter that Emery turned them down. I'd completely forgotten about that, but it obviously hurt them.
Why do they take everything to heart so much? They are so easy to wind up. It will be funny as f*** if we beat them.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
-
That along with the blind linesman and VAR at the same time is an outrageous slice of luck which could be the difference in them winning the title.
-
Just had a quick look at one of their forums, and they seem quite bitter that Emery turned them down. I'd completely forgotten about that, but it obviously hurt them.
Why do they take everything to heart so much? They are so easy to wind up. It will be funny as f*** if we beat them.
I wonder sometimes if being stuck up in the far wastelands of England (don’t get me wrong that part of the country is achingly beautiful) makes Geordies and probably the Cumbrians and Cornish that little bit different in terms of their psych when it comes to being part of England. I dunno I couldn’t stand Newcastle back in the 90s as the club was the very definition of all fart no shit and had the media lapping them up but I’ve mellowed over time and realise much of the bullshit around them comes from media hype and some of the rather more mentally challenged end of their support and to a man/woman the geordies I’ve met and worked with have been some of the most solid gold people you could wish to meet.
Anyway, should be a good game think they may have too much for us but Unai can craft us a point as a minimum. 1-1.
-
I know what Chris means - it feels like we're being lucky all the time.
But what is undoubtedly true is that the way Emery has us playing is tipping the odds in our favour - making our own luck, I guess you could say.
-
That along with the blind linesman and VAR at the same time is an outrageous slice of luck which could be the difference in them winning the title.
And, if the loss of those 3 points cost us a Europa place as a result then we'd be extremely unlucky wouldn't we?
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
In a city that's got one Tory MP, and he's in the only constituency Small Heath can claim as one of their own.
2 Tory MPs?
-
Also - of Chelsea’s ‘27’ shots - how many of them were actually anywhere near the goal? They were shooting well wide and over mainly because we limited them to difficult chances.
-
In isolation, it could be said we have been lucky in games to come away with wins, but that doesn't work out over a period of 6-10-16 games. You don't win 5 out of 7 away games in the Premier League just by being lucky or win 5 games out of 6 home and away.
We may have a result go against us that we don't deserve, but we are doing much more right than wrong.
-
Well it depends how you define luck (and I'm not looking for a debate on semantics Paul!) I think payers passing directly to Bertie for his two goals is fortunate. So is players missing open goals / easy chances - Souttar's miss was remarkable (I know it shouldn't have been a corner). I think we were fortunate that Young got the foul for the push in the box to chalk off a goal. VAR also disallowed Southampton goal for a pretty soft foul on Ramsey. The Solanke offside decision was correct, but incredibly tight and could have gone either way depending on the frame VAR chose to use.
You may not think any of this is luck, but they are moments in games that could have gone either way. It feels to me that more have gone our way than I'd usually expect. I've certainly been walking away from games thinking we've got away with it a bit there, which is really the only barometer I need.
I also think Watkins is taking chances at an unsustainable rate. That's certainly not luck, but I don't think it's realistic that it will carry on either.
You say those misplaced passes are fortunate, but at Leicester we'd had them pinned in since the sending off with our measured, controlled play. The pressure leads to errors.
In addition, the luck of Niddi passing to Traore completely ignores the fact that it was a brilliant finish from Traore, that many players in the Villa Team or other teams wouldn’t of finished. Apart from the odd extreme bouts of luck, Arsenals 3rd goal against us or the Sheff Utd non goal against us, luck is generally made.
Its an incredibly glass half empty view to regard us being lucky in the last couple of months, and that is no matter what the newcastle result at the weekend.
-
I had a look at one of their forums yesterday. Like all football forums, there were plenty of sensible comments, as well as some by brain donors.
A couple of them hate us because we're all Tories, apparently. One has a Baggie mate, and he and other Albion fans principally hate us because of the strong Tory element amongst our support. Nothing to do with spending more than a century in our shadow then.
Right, I'm off to piss on a homeless person before objecting to a planning application for new social housing in my area.
In a city that's got one Tory MP, and he's in the only constituency Small Heath can claim as one of their own.
2 Tory MPs?
Yes, if you include Sutton otherwise it’s just Sambrook.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
Maybe, but Arsenal completely controlled that second half and you just knew that Martínez time-wasting at 2-2 just before injury time, was going to come back to haunt us.
I can see where Chris is coming from, I know people think xG is bollocks but it is an indicator of sorts, and we're outscoring it in almost every game on this run.
We haven't been swash-buckling in any of our wins but maybe that isn't the Emery way and hard-fought victories where we're more ruthless than the opposition is probably going to be the order of the day under him. Not complaining - we're winning consistently and are remarkably scoring in every game since he joined, I just hope if/when the wheels come off, it's not going to be a car-crash. It's the Villan in me, I'm scarred from years of trauma y'see.
-
There has been a little bit of the Martin O'Neil about some of our away performances although I think the Emery approach is far more sophisticated than the rope a dope and nick one on the break.
What I love is that we always look dangerous and that is why we never fail to score and that is not luck.
-
Also - of Chelsea’s ‘27’ shots - how many of them were actually anywhere near the goal? They were shooting well wide and over mainly because we limited them to difficult chances.
Correct. I would say our defending resulted in them taking shots such was their frustration at not being able to break us down. Even when they had that one clear run on goal from Mudryk and he sees Emi in front of him looking like a Double Decker bus he is thinking "he's the current best keeper in the world, what do I do?"
-
I don't think it's glass half empty at all. We are clearly well coached, prepared and playing well, but you can only over-perform stats for so long - and we are doing so at both ends of the pitch. To do so you need an element of luck. I feel we've had that at key moments in a number of games. I'm surprised I seem to be alone, but that's how the tinted glasses work. I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just objective.
-
I don't think it's glass half empty at all. We are clearly well coached, prepared and playing well, but you can only over-perform stats for so long - and we are doing so at both ends of the pitch. To do so you need an element of luck. I feel we've had that at key moments in a number of games. I'm surprised I seem to be alone, but that's how the tinted glasses work. I don't think I'm being pessimistic, just objective.
I've revealed my support for your stance, please take heart, you are not alone.
-
Luck rarely plays a part in football. The Arsenal goal is an example of luck but if they don't shoot they don't score, I don't class any of our deflections in the 7-2 as lucky for example, we shot, we scored. Job done. We were much better than Leicester at home but it wasn't luck we lost, it was shit individual play from us 4 times. Mudryk missing wasn't luck, it was a shit finish. Brighton getting skanked wasn't luck, it was incompetence verging on cheating by the officals. Ollie missing chance after chance earlier in the season wasn't down to luck, it was because of poor play and coaching. And so on.
-
Most of those Chelsea shots were from about 3 miles out, too.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
Maybe, but Arsenal completely controlled that second half and you just knew that Martínez time-wasting at 2-2 just before injury time, was going to come back to haunt us.
I can see where Chris is coming from, I know people think xG is bollocks but it is an indicator of sorts, and we're outscoring it in almost every game on this run.
We haven't been swash-buckling in any of our wins but maybe that isn't the Emery way and hard-fought victories where we're more ruthless than the opposition is probably going to be the order of the day under him. Not complaining - we're winning consistently and are remarkably scoring in every game since he joined, I just hope if/when the wheels come off, it's not going to be a car-crash. It's the Villan in me, I'm scarred from years of trauma y'see.
Xg is an imperfect guide that doesn't account for things like form or ability. As an example Potter has now had both Brighton and Chelsea scoring well below their Xg over a number of seasons, that suggests something about how he sets teams up makes them need more chances than is statistically normal for the league. Emery appears, on a smaller sample size, to have the opposite effect where he creates teams that are ruthless with the chances they create. Xg won't adapt its methods for them but it doesn't mean Potter is unlucky and Emery is lucky, it just means that they are statistical outliers. Anything that is based on averages will always have those and it's impossible to account for them in the modelling.
As the most basic explanation Xg will have a hard coded value for penalties (0.79) based on x out y result in goals and situationally they're all the same. What that doesn't account for is how good the penalty taker is, how good the goalkeeper is, how much pressure there is on the taker, and many other things. It doesn' drilldown to those levels because instead it just uses a simple "79% of penalties result in a goal" stat. Across the entire league over a full season it'll be pretty accurate (because the underlying number is pulled from a similar dataset) but it doesn't mean anyone taking a penalty against anyone has a 79% chance to score.
I don't think it's luck if someone hits a screamer from 30yards, I don't think it's luck if a keeper pulls off a wonder save, they're examples of exceptional skill.
If a shot is going 2 yards wide but bounces off a couple of defenders and into the top corner then that's luck (but not all own-goals, sometimes the quality of the shot/cross creates a situation where an own goal is much more likely, that's another example of skill).
What I'm really getting at is that our form recently has been down to tactical and coaching excellence and the confidence that has created in the squad. Putting it down to luck is to subscribe (at least in part) to the 'bit of magic' approach of Gerrard and Bruce.
Someone above mentioned we were lucky with the Leicester sending off and the Forest injury but that completely ignores the fact that in the past we've been terrible against 10men but in both of those games we adapted and exploited the extra space brilliantly, that's not luck, it's preparation.
-
Even the sending off is a result of a fustrated player making two errors chasing us in posession, and because of the skill of the player with the ball.
-
It will be a tight game & 1-1 draw. I'd bring Dendonker into midfield and push McGinn further forward. Traore drops to the bench. We need to be patient, match them physically & alert at set pieces.
With a few exceptions they are not a particularly talented team, but they are well organised, hard working and strong.
-
They have lost just 3 games this season, I would think they have quite a few talented players
We will need to match them for their work rate as they are an extremely fit side
-
2 of those defeats were against Liverpool (one before the League Cup final where they just seem to implode) and the other away at Man City.
Their biggest problem is how many games they've drawn. They'll be thinking if they could have turned some of those draws into wins, they could have been in the title picture.
-
They will come to stifle us, and nick one. We will do the same and it will be the dullest game ever, 0.23xg and a couple of bookings.
-
Will be interesting to see a team which engages in even more timewasting than we do.
-
Reading the comments i also think that the physical battle in midfield will be the reason why we win or lose and for that reason i think the Donk should come in, especially because of Jolinton, so McGinn can get further forward and let them worry about us.
I really like Willock and hopefully St Maximam will have one of his many wasteful off days.
Think this will be our toughest game for a while
-
2 of those defeats were against Liverpool (one before the League Cup final where they just seem to implode) and the other away at Man City.
Their biggest problem is how many games they've drawn. They'll be thinking if they could have turned some of those draws into wins, they could have been in the title picture.
I think some of their wins could easily have been draws, and some draws could have been defeats. They're certainly not under-achieving based on how they've played. Their success is based on a rock-solid defence. This often means a reliance on narrow wins.
-
Most of those Chelsea shots were from about 3 miles out, too.
That's just not true. 19 of their efforts were inside the box, and 10 of them were closer than the penalty spot. I'm not saying we didn't play well, or that we didn't defend brilliantly after taking the lead (we obviously did!), merely that the sheer number of chances they created - some of them pretty good - would "normally" lead to goals, and that we were a bit lucky on the day.
And that's okay. It's not a criticism of us or our performance. Sometimes you get the rub of the green, or benefit from the other team's forwards having an off-day, and on that day I think we DID benefit from that. Like I said previously, I think the "luck" against Chelsea was balanced out by Leicester having five shots all afternoon and scoring four in a different game against us - a game I think we deserved to win on the balance of play, but they go lucky due to a couple of big individual errors.
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
-
Reading the comments i also think that the physical battle in midfield will be the reason why we win or lose and for that reason i think the Donk should come in, especially because of Jolinton, so McGinn can get further forward and let them worry about us.
I really like Willock and hopefully St Maximam will have one of his many wasteful off days.
Think this will be our toughest game for a while
Isn't Saint Maximin injured?
-
Almiron may be back on the bench as he returned to full training this week, ASM is in France working on recovery.
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
The reverse fixture at Villa Park with Chelsea had followed a similar path, and I remember thinking that day that for all of our 'good play' we could've played all day and not scored and they looked more dangerous.
The game down there felt completely the opposite.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
Maybe, but Arsenal completely controlled that second half and you just knew that Martínez time-wasting at 2-2 just before injury time, was going to come back to haunt us.
I can see where Chris is coming from, I know people think xG is bollocks but it is an indicator of sorts, and we're outscoring it in almost every game on this run.
We haven't been swash-buckling in any of our wins but maybe that isn't the Emery way and hard-fought victories where we're more ruthless than the opposition is probably going to be the order of the day under him. Not complaining - we're winning consistently and are remarkably scoring in every game since he joined, I just hope if/when the wheels come off, it's not going to be a car-crash. It's the Villan in me, I'm scarred from years of trauma y'see.
Xg is an imperfect guide that doesn't account for things like form or ability. As an example Potter has now had both Brighton and Chelsea scoring well below their Xg over a number of seasons, that suggests something about how he sets teams up makes them need more chances than is statistically normal for the league. Emery appears, on a smaller sample size, to have the opposite effect where he creates teams that are ruthless with the chances they create. Xg won't adapt its methods for them but it doesn't mean Potter is unlucky and Emery is lucky, it just means that they are statistical outliers. Anything that is based on averages will always have those and it's impossible to account for them in the modelling.
As the most basic explanation Xg will have a hard coded value for penalties (0.79) based on x out y result in goals and situationally they're all the same. What that doesn't account for is how good the penalty taker is, how good the goalkeeper is, how much pressure there is on the taker, and many other things. It doesn' drilldown to those levels because instead it just uses a simple "79% of penalties result in a goal" stat. Across the entire league over a full season it'll be pretty accurate (because the underlying number is pulled from a similar dataset) but it doesn't mean anyone taking a penalty against anyone has a 79% chance to score.
I don't think it's luck if someone hits a screamer from 30yards, I don't think it's luck if a keeper pulls off a wonder save, they're examples of exceptional skill.
If a shot is going 2 yards wide but bounces off a couple of defenders and into the top corner then that's luck (but not all own-goals, sometimes the quality of the shot/cross creates a situation where an own goal is much more likely, that's another example of skill).
What I'm really getting at is that our form recently has been down to tactical and coaching excellence and the confidence that has created in the squad. Putting it down to luck is to subscribe (at least in part) to the 'bit of magic' approach of Gerrard and Bruce.
Someone above mentioned we were lucky with the Leicester sending off and the Forest injury but that completely ignores the fact that in the past we've been terrible against 10men but in both of those games we adapted and exploited the extra space brilliantly, that's not luck, it's preparation.
Don't think anyone asked for an explanation of xG, paul_e
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
It depends what you consider luck to be really. For me it's a group of unlikely events happening one after the other to lead to something you couldn't have predicted.
The Arsenal 3rd is a decent example, shot from 25 yards hits the underside of the bar in such a way that not only does it deflect into the ground but does it in such a way that the spin on the ball makes the bounce go directly onto the back of Martinez head and into the net. There's still an element of skill involved in hitting the shot as well as he did but if the ball bounces of the turf in almost any other way Emi has time to collect it and get us a point. For me that's just about in the realms of good fortune (or bad depending on your viewpoint). So there's not much less than that that I'd put down as luck (outside of the live game, during a game I'll often call things lucky but that's more an expression than anything else).
-
Most of those Chelsea shots were from about 3 miles out, too.
That's just not true. 19 of their efforts were inside the box, and 10 of them were closer than the penalty spot. I'm not saying we didn't play well, or that we didn't defend brilliantly after taking the lead (we obviously did!), merely that the sheer number of chances they created - some of them pretty good - would "normally" lead to goals, and that we were a bit lucky on the day.
And that's okay. It's not a criticism of us or our performance. Sometimes you get the rub of the green, or benefit from the other team's forwards having an off-day, and on that day I think we DID benefit from that. Like I said previously, I think the "luck" against Chelsea was balanced out by Leicester having five shots all afternoon and scoring four in a different game against us - a game I think we deserved to win on the balance of play, but they go lucky due to a couple of big individual errors.
Im afraid i disagree. Chilwell clearly fouls Young for their ruled out equaliser. Mudryk fluffs his lines when through, Kante drags one wide when he should of done better. That is just poor play from them no luck involved. On the flip side Martinez makes at least one if not two great saves, again no luck just good play from us.
The rest of their shots from memory went miles over the bar, again poor play.
Again against Leicester, Traore has a lot to do after their defensive error, slightly less to do against Forest, but still had to stick it away.
Im not saying we’ve set the world alight in every game, we clearly haven’t, but this idea of luck, just waters down Emery’s huge achievements so far this season.
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
Maybe, but Arsenal completely controlled that second half and you just knew that Martínez time-wasting at 2-2 just before injury time, was going to come back to haunt us.
I can see where Chris is coming from, I know people think xG is bollocks but it is an indicator of sorts, and we're outscoring it in almost every game on this run.
We haven't been swash-buckling in any of our wins but maybe that isn't the Emery way and hard-fought victories where we're more ruthless than the opposition is probably going to be the order of the day under him. Not complaining - we're winning consistently and are remarkably scoring in every game since he joined, I just hope if/when the wheels come off, it's not going to be a car-crash. It's the Villan in me, I'm scarred from years of trauma y'see.
Xg is an imperfect guide that doesn't account for things like form or ability. As an example Potter has now had both Brighton and Chelsea scoring well below their Xg over a number of seasons, that suggests something about how he sets teams up makes them need more chances than is statistically normal for the league. Emery appears, on a smaller sample size, to have the opposite effect where he creates teams that are ruthless with the chances they create. Xg won't adapt its methods for them but it doesn't mean Potter is unlucky and Emery is lucky, it just means that they are statistical outliers. Anything that is based on averages will always have those and it's impossible to account for them in the modelling.
As the most basic explanation Xg will have a hard coded value for penalties (0.79) based on x out y result in goals and situationally they're all the same. What that doesn't account for is how good the penalty taker is, how good the goalkeeper is, how much pressure there is on the taker, and many other things. It doesn' drilldown to those levels because instead it just uses a simple "79% of penalties result in a goal" stat. Across the entire league over a full season it'll be pretty accurate (because the underlying number is pulled from a similar dataset) but it doesn't mean anyone taking a penalty against anyone has a 79% chance to score.
I don't think it's luck if someone hits a screamer from 30yards, I don't think it's luck if a keeper pulls off a wonder save, they're examples of exceptional skill.
If a shot is going 2 yards wide but bounces off a couple of defenders and into the top corner then that's luck (but not all own-goals, sometimes the quality of the shot/cross creates a situation where an own goal is much more likely, that's another example of skill).
What I'm really getting at is that our form recently has been down to tactical and coaching excellence and the confidence that has created in the squad. Putting it down to luck is to subscribe (at least in part) to the 'bit of magic' approach of Gerrard and Bruce.
Someone above mentioned we were lucky with the Leicester sending off and the Forest injury but that completely ignores the fact that in the past we've been terrible against 10men but in both of those games we adapted and exploited the extra space brilliantly, that's not luck, it's preparation.
Don't think anyone asked for an explanation of xG, paul_e
It provides context to the discussion, unlike your occasional shitposts.
-
Let's all quote a massive post to moan about the massive post. Great one!
-
Luck works both ways.
Indeed.
If there's a definition of luck here, what kind of luck does going ahead against Arsenal twice, being at 2-2 on 93 minutes and having a shot bounce down off the bar, off the back of the keeper's head and in represent?
Yep, I agree, that's the biggest action of luck in any of our recent games.
Maybe, but Arsenal completely controlled that second half and you just knew that Martínez time-wasting at 2-2 just before injury time, was going to come back to haunt us.
I can see where Chris is coming from, I know people think xG is bollocks but it is an indicator of sorts, and we're outscoring it in almost every game on this run.
We haven't been swash-buckling in any of our wins but maybe that isn't the Emery way and hard-fought victories where we're more ruthless than the opposition is probably going to be the order of the day under him. Not complaining - we're winning consistently and are remarkably scoring in every game since he joined, I just hope if/when the wheels come off, it's not going to be a car-crash. It's the Villan in me, I'm scarred from years of trauma y'see.
Xg is an imperfect guide that doesn't account for things like form or ability. As an example Potter has now had both Brighton and Chelsea scoring well below their Xg over a number of seasons, that suggests something about how he sets teams up makes them need more chances than is statistically normal for the league. Emery appears, on a smaller sample size, to have the opposite effect where he creates teams that are ruthless with the chances they create. Xg won't adapt its methods for them but it doesn't mean Potter is unlucky and Emery is lucky, it just means that they are statistical outliers. Anything that is based on averages will always have those and it's impossible to account for them in the modelling.
As the most basic explanation Xg will have a hard coded value for penalties (0.79) based on x out y result in goals and situationally they're all the same. What that doesn't account for is how good the penalty taker is, how good the goalkeeper is, how much pressure there is on the taker, and many other things. It doesn' drilldown to those levels because instead it just uses a simple "79% of penalties result in a goal" stat. Across the entire league over a full season it'll be pretty accurate (because the underlying number is pulled from a similar dataset) but it doesn't mean anyone taking a penalty against anyone has a 79% chance to score.
I don't think it's luck if someone hits a screamer from 30yards, I don't think it's luck if a keeper pulls off a wonder save, they're examples of exceptional skill.
If a shot is going 2 yards wide but bounces off a couple of defenders and into the top corner then that's luck (but not all own-goals, sometimes the quality of the shot/cross creates a situation where an own goal is much more likely, that's another example of skill).
What I'm really getting at is that our form recently has been down to tactical and coaching excellence and the confidence that has created in the squad. Putting it down to luck is to subscribe (at least in part) to the 'bit of magic' approach of Gerrard and Bruce.
Someone above mentioned we were lucky with the Leicester sending off and the Forest injury but that completely ignores the fact that in the past we've been terrible against 10men but in both of those games we adapted and exploited the extra space brilliantly, that's not luck, it's preparation.
Don't think anyone asked for an explanation of xG, paul_e
It provides context to the discussion, unlike your occasional shitposts.
Let's all quote a massive post to moan about the massive post. Great one!
Soz.
-
A lot of the new players we buy seem to get 'crocked' within no time. I call that shit luck before we even get on the pitch!!
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
-
Most of those Chelsea shots were from about 3 miles out, too.
That's just not true. 19 of their efforts were inside the box, and 10 of them were closer than the penalty spot. I'm not saying we didn't play well, or that we didn't defend brilliantly after taking the lead (we obviously did!), merely that the sheer number of chances they created - some of them pretty good - would "normally" lead to goals, and that we were a bit lucky on the day.
And that's okay. It's not a criticism of us or our performance. Sometimes you get the rub of the green, or benefit from the other team's forwards having an off-day, and on that day I think we DID benefit from that. Like I said previously, I think the "luck" against Chelsea was balanced out by Leicester having five shots all afternoon and scoring four in a different game against us - a game I think we deserved to win on the balance of play, but they go lucky due to a couple of big individual errors.
Im afraid i disagree. Chilwell clearly fouls Young for their ruled out equaliser. Mudryk fluffs his lines when through, Kante drags one wide when he should of done better. That is just poor play from them no luck involved. On the flip side Martinez makes at least one if not two great saves, again no luck just good play from us.
The rest of their shots from memory went miles over the bar, again poor play.
Again against Leicester, Traore has a lot to do after their defensive error, slightly less to do against Forest, but still had to stick it away.
Im not saying we’ve set the world alight in every game, we clearly haven’t, but this idea of luck, just waters down Emery’s huge achievements so far this season.
I agree with all of that, I think it's this perception that people are saying Emery has been "lucky" like it's some supernatural force that has been dragging him along. I'm certainly not suggesting that. I don't even know if "luck" is the right word, it just seems like the right vocabulary for the point I'm trying to make. I don't believe in luck, or karma or any of that superstitious nonsense, but I still think buying a winning lottery ticket is "lucky", or that getting a hole in one is "lucky".
What I do know is that if we played Chelsea 100 times, and in each of those games they had 27 shots to our 5, and had 69% of the possession, then I think we would lose more of those 100 games than we win. We'd still win some, and I believe we were "lucky" to get one of those days when the team with all the shots and possession loses. I don't know what the right word for that "luck" is, maybe it's not "lucky", maybe it's something else. Probability suggests if your opposition has five times the chances you do, then you're going to lose more in the long run, but you can still win the odd game.
Chances created, possession and shots taken do not win matches. That's the beauty of this game. If they did, then every game's result would go to the side with the best stats. But over time, the more games you play, the teams with the best of those stats drift toward the top of the table, and those with the worst go downward. Because those things DO impact you chances of winning.
Again, I don't want to make out I'm dismissing Emery's or the team's achievements in the Chelsea game, I'm not. And I don't want this to become a philosophical debate on the nature of 'fate', I just think it doesn't hurt to acknowledge we've had elements of good fortune in our recent good run.
(for the record, I often make the same point, but with the opposite emphasis when we've lost games while playing well - I promise I'm not just trying to be negative!)
-
Chelsea have failed to score in 8 league games in 2023, it's nothing to do with luck, they're just a bit shit at scoring.
-
Who we playing Saturday?
-
Who we playing Saturday?
Hopefully some team down on their luck.
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
Ah, this is the sort of thing I come to H&V for :) (and also Paul E's post, not quoted).
Luck is a tricky concept. Is it luck that makes, say, the Duke of Westminster wealthy? I mean, he didn't make a conscious decision to be the first born of the richest member of landed gentry in the country, did he? I'd be inclined to say that's just chance, or luck.
But equally, is it purely luck that has meant that the family as a whole are rich? Generations have literally just winged it and got richer and richer purely by chance? I'd be inclined to think that there's been some clever financial management somewhere along the way there, it's not just that the family keeps rolling double 1s on a craps table.
So even with the same concept, things can be luck in one respect and not luck in another.
I'd be inclined to say, for example, that if you buy injury prone players and they get injured, that's something that could've been predicted. If you get a freak injury, like Wesley's one against Burnley, that's luck (even though it was an intentional action by Ben Mee).
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
I don't have the best knowledge of all the different traditions, but I like to think karma can exist as a pretty secular concept, distinct from any notion of individual reward, punishment or justice.
It's a principle of cause and effect whereby, if you accept the coexistence and interdependence of all things, the 'effect' is felt by that body as a whole.
You could do something to hurt someone and never get caught for that action, but somebody still suffers. That is sufficient, as a concept. We are all made up of the same stuff, all bound by mortality, all trying to negotiate life on the same planet.
In a literal, individualistic sense, it can be developed to suggest that the person you have caused suffering to will sometimes transfer that suffering onto somebody else, and them onto somebody else, until it eventually comes full circle. So in the most simplistic sense: 1) a wealthy person exploits a poor person 2) who mugs a fellow poor person 3) who buys drugs to deal with the stress from a dealer 4) who is owed money by somebody who can't afford to pay 5) who goes out and steals the wealthy person's car.
Our sense of 'justice' will try to intervene, usually at the higher numbers (protect the wealthy person's car, imprison drug dealers, tackle muggers) and sometimes at 1 (establish systems and laws that aim to prevent exploitation), but it will not necessarily acknowledge the chain of cause and effect.
For me, karma doesn't deliver or demand justice, it just requires recognition of interdependence.
But such concepts have no business interrupting my laughing at Newcastle 😉
-
Yeah.
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
Ah, this is the sort of thing I come to H&V for :) (and also Paul E's post, not quoted).
Luck is a tricky concept. Is it luck that makes, say, the Duke of Westminster wealthy? I mean, he didn't make a conscious decision to be the first born of the richest member of landed gentry in the country, did he? I'd be inclined to say that's just chance, or luck.
But equally, is it purely luck that has meant that the family as a whole are rich? Generations have literally just winged it and got richer and richer purely by chance? I'd be inclined to think that there's been some clever financial management somewhere along the way there, it's not just that the family keeps rolling double 1s on a craps table.
So even with the same concept, things can be luck in one respect and not luck in another.
I'd be inclined to say, for example, that if you buy injury prone players and they get injured, that's something that could've been predicted. If you get a freak injury, like Wesley's one against Burnley, that's luck (even though it was an intentional action by Ben Mee).
Im not sure about luck or otherwise if we’re bringing royalty and landed gentry into this, subjugation of the masses and all that.
Anyway….despite my assertion that we haven’t relied on luck lately, i have been known to say how unlucky Villa have been here and there over the years, hypocritical i suppose.
I think it will be a full on game and a full on atmosphere on Saturday, possibly a classic, its be 2-0 us and comfortable for the last three seasons, it’ll be a lot closer, hopefully with a bit of luck 3-2 to us.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
Mine wasn't about luck, it was about karma. And helpfully it's been ignored 😉
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
Ah, this is the sort of thing I come to H&V for :) (and also Paul E's post, not quoted).
Luck is a tricky concept. Is it luck that makes, say, the Duke of Westminster wealthy? I mean, he didn't make a conscious decision to be the first born of the richest member of landed gentry in the country, did he? I'd be inclined to say that's just chance, or luck.
But equally, is it purely luck that has meant that the family as a whole are rich? Generations have literally just winged it and got richer and richer purely by chance? I'd be inclined to think that there's been some clever financial management somewhere along the way there, it's not just that the family keeps rolling double 1s on a craps table.
So even with the same concept, things can be luck in one respect and not luck in another.
I'd be inclined to say, for example, that if you buy injury prone players and they get injured, that's something that could've been predicted. If you get a freak injury, like Wesley's one against Burnley, that's luck (even though it was an intentional action by Ben Mee).
Im not sure about luck or otherwise if we’re bringing royalty and landed gentry into this, subjugation of the masses and all that.
Anyway….despite my assertion that we haven’t relied on luck lately, i have been known to say how unlucky Villa have been here and there over the years, hypocritical i suppose.
I think it will be a full on game and a full on atmosphere on Saturday, possibly a classic, its be 2-0 us and comfortable for the last three seasons, it’ll be a lot closer, hopefully with a bit of luck 3-2 to us.
Well, I was meaning it more that one thing can be viewed as both down to chance *and* quite intentional. Wasn't meaning it as particularly a comment on the landed gentry, that's just the first thing that popped in to my head where I could think of a situation which was both.
A less contentious one might be - is it luck that Emi Martinez has a world cup winners medal? I mean, had he been born in Chile he probably wouldn't have one. And he hasn't had any choice or influence on where he was born, that's pure luck on his part. But then it's his hard work & skill that has put him in the situation where he's Argentina's first choice goalkeeper. It's not a roll of dice at the craps table in that respect.
Edit: and I agree with Rory about karma. As with a lot of concepts you find in religion, I don't think they particularly need to be tied to the concept of a god/presence/lifeflow/...
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
-
It's not luck though, it's just shit play. Chelsea are mid table partly because they can't score many, as we saw with their shit finishing. Individual errors in defence against Leicester weren't luck, it was shit defending. Ollie scoring a lot now isn't luck, same as him missing loads earlier in the season wasn't luck.
Exactly.
Luck, like fate and karma simply does not exist.
Rolling a lot of different concepts into one there.
(Buddhistic pedant alert)
In arguing against luck and influencing outcomes instead by actions, you are getting close to describing karma, willed/volitional action.
You are probably thinking of karma vipaka, the fruit of the actions, but again I'm not clear you don't believe doing crappy things will not have crappy outcomes for yourself (you'll feel it on some level).
As to whether you are arguing against an inherent natural way of things, that acting more other regarding won't have positive consequences for yourself etc, well it's not my experience.
Anyway, to adopt H&V vernacular, oh to 'funeral' the barcodes. They'll get reborn anyway.
Ah, this is the sort of thing I come to H&V for :) (and also Paul E's post, not quoted).
Luck is a tricky concept. Is it luck that makes, say, the Duke of Westminster wealthy? I mean, he didn't make a conscious decision to be the first born of the richest member of landed gentry in the country, did he? I'd be inclined to say that's just chance, or luck.
But equally, is it purely luck that has meant that the family as a whole are rich? Generations have literally just winged it and got richer and richer purely by chance? I'd be inclined to think that there's been some clever financial management somewhere along the way there, it's not just that the family keeps rolling double 1s on a craps table.
So even with the same concept, things can be luck in one respect and not luck in another.
I'd be inclined to say, for example, that if you buy injury prone players and they get injured, that's something that could've been predicted. If you get a freak injury, like Wesley's one against Burnley, that's luck (even though it was an intentional action by Ben Mee).
Im not sure about luck or otherwise if we’re bringing royalty and landed gentry into this, subjugation of the masses and all that.
Anyway….despite my assertion that we haven’t relied on luck lately, i have been known to say how unlucky Villa have been here and there over the years, hypocritical i suppose.
I think it will be a full on game and a full on atmosphere on Saturday, possibly a classic, its be 2-0 us and comfortable for the last three seasons, it’ll be a lot closer, hopefully with a bit of luck 3-2 to us.
Well, I was meaning it more that one thing can be viewed as both down to chance *and* quite intentional. Wasn't meaning it as particularly a comment on the landed gentry, that's just the first thing that popped in to my head where I could think of a situation which was both.
A less contentious one might be - is it luck that Emi Martinez has a world cup winners medal? I mean, had he been born in Chile he probably wouldn't have one. And he hasn't had any choice or influence on where he was born, that's pure luck on his part. But then it's his hard work & skill that has put him in the situation where he's Argentina's first choice goalkeeper. It's not a roll of dice at the craps table in that respect.
Yeah, 'chance' is probably more helpful in this context than 'luck', which has an associated value judgment.
-
For me, karma doesn't deliver or demand justice, it just requires recognition of interdependence.
But such concepts have no business interrupting my laughing at Newcastle 😉
Ah, a karma chameleon.
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
I tend to follow Rory's version of karma here. I don't think it needs to be tied to a particular god/life force/... - you can have a secular concept where you have some kind of indirect benefit from being nice to others, because overall it makes the environment/community you live in nicer.
Same applies to a load of religious concepts I find. You can easily have secular versions of the same morality tales of you particularly want them.
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
-
For me, karma doesn't deliver or demand justice, it just requires recognition of interdependence.
But such concepts have no business interrupting my laughing at Newcastle 😉
Ah, a karma chameleon.
That's the point where religion *does* come into it: Villa, as the chosen people, must vanquish the satanic magpies.
-
For me, karma doesn't deliver or demand justice, it just requires recognition of interdependence.
But such concepts have no business interrupting my laughing at Newcastle 😉
Ah, a karma chameleon.
Constant phenomena? or does it come and go?
-
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Yeah, but let's be honest, it wasn't so funny when we managed a 'comedy' relegation (ie pitiful points count) ourselves not that long after.
Ultimately, it's when you go down and nobody bats an eyelid that you need to be worried.
-
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Yeah, but let's be honest, it wasn't so funny when we managed a 'comedy' relegation (ie pitiful points count) ourselves not that long after.
Ultimately, it's when you go down and nobody bats an eyelid that you need to be worried.
Considering the second one mentioned for Newcastle was the season we went down it was still very funny. Mainly as we'd long accepted we were goners but they still thought they were staying up.
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
I tend to follow Rory's version of karma here. I don't think it needs to be tied to a particular god/life force/... - you can have a secular concept where you have some kind of indirect benefit from being nice to others, because overall it makes the environment/community you live in nicer.
Same applies to a load of religious concepts I find. You can easily have secular versions of the same morality tales of you particularly want them.
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Absolutely. Karma is a complex and underexplored thing. It has more in common with quantum mechanics than with monotheistic systems of thought.
Unfortunately it's widely misrepresented, often by its own proponents.
-
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Yeah, but let's be honest, it wasn't so funny when we managed a 'comedy' relegation (ie pitiful points count) ourselves not that long after.
Ultimately, it's when you go down and nobody bats an eyelid that you need to be worried.
Considering the second one mentioned for Newcastle was the season we went down it was still very funny. Mainly as we'd long accepted we were goners but they still thought they were staying up.
I think I found the second one funnier, if anything. The first time, they seemed genuinely shocked that anybody would laugh, but the second time they set out for revenge - and we were still the ones laughing.
-
I just asked one of those 8 Balls that you shake 'Are Aston Villa lucky?' and it said 'maybe'. Make of that what you will.
-
I just asked one of those 8 Balls that you shake 'Are Aston Villa lucky?' and it said 'maybe'. Make of that what you will.
That 8 ball is a teasing prick.
-
I just asked one of those 8 Balls that you shake 'Are Aston Villa lucky?' and it said 'maybe'. Make of that what you will.
That 8 ball is a teasing prick.
What are the chances of that?!
-
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Yeah, but let's be honest, it wasn't so funny when we managed a 'comedy' relegation (ie pitiful points count) ourselves not that long after.
Ultimately, it's when you go down and nobody bats an eyelid that you need to be worried.
Considering the second one mentioned for Newcastle was the season we went down it was still very funny. Mainly as we'd long accepted we were goners but they still thought they were staying up.
It wasn’t quite as funny when they sold three players that summer for £68m, and then got promoted at the first attempt.
-
Feels like a bit of a test this game. Win this one and I think people and the media will sit up a bit and begin to take notice.
-
Them getting relegated when they'd wanted to gloat will always be very very funny.
-
Them getting relegated when they'd wanted to gloat will always be very very funny.
Definitely. If subsequent events after more than a couple of weeks or so diminished enjoyment, football would be fucking miserable.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
We are persisting in misusing the term karma which just means (deliberate) action.
The tremendous balls up Hoddle made (or was at most generous analysis misunderstood to make, costing him his England managers job - quite substantial karma vipaka (fruit of his action) there) was to see the principle in isolation and over attribute to it. Rather it being one of many laws inherent in the universe in operation at the same time.
So bad things happening to good people isn't precluded by the law of karma, though if we are open to looking at past actions across lifetimes, it'll take a pretty sophisticated consciousness to be able to discern the origin of the outcome.
Pleasing to see such thoughtful consideration Rory, including quantum physics. It never ceases to amaze me it was front page news that consciousness affects the behaviour of matter.
Haven't followed the recent 'Universe Is Not Locally Real' stuff but imagine it aligns with Buddhist insubstantiality...
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
We are persisting in misusing the term karma which just means (deliberate) action.
The tremendous balls up Hoddle made (or was at most generous analysis misunderstood to make, costing him his England managers job - quite substantial karma vipaka (fruit of his action) there) was to see the principle in isolation and over attribute to it. Rather it being one of many laws inherent in the universe in operation at the same time.
So bad things happening to good people isn't precluded by the law of karma, though if we are open to looking at past actions across lifetimes, it'll take a pretty sophisticated consciousness to be able to discern the origin of the outcome.
Pleasing to see such thoughtful consideration Rory, including quantum physics. It never ceases to amaze me it was front page news that consciousness affects the behaviour of matter.
Haven't followed the recent 'Universe Is Not Locally Real' stuff but imagine it aligns with Buddhist insubstantiality...
Absolutely spot on 🙂 but it is unsurprising that ideas which seem to contradict local empiricism struggle to find popular support.
I've studied it as much as a regular layman realistically can, and the idea of one thing existing simultaneously in discrete forms is still a headfuck.
-
What about an African swallow?
-
What about an African swallow?
Doesn't make an African summer.
-
What about an African swallow?
Doesn't make an African summer.
But it does make an African gulp.
-
What about an African swallow?
Doesn't make an African summer.
But it does make an African gulp.
Or reverse.
-
For me, karma doesn't deliver or demand justice, it just requires recognition of interdependence.
But such concepts have no business interrupting my laughing at Newcastle 😉
Ah, a karma chameleon.
Thats a terrible pun. Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
-
Them getting relegated when they'd wanted to gloat will always be very very funny.
It was. It was brilliant. Particularly as they came with banners etc - 'who are the clowns now' A tiny bit of light in a very dark season.
-
I went on a few of their forums last night. Despite trying, i couldn’t find any humility nevermind a philosophical discussion on the nature of luck. Virtually every post I read about the match on Saturday, was ‘we’re shit’, ‘we’ve had a good run but only played shit’, ‘they are going to batter us’, they f***ing hate us’…..it goes on and on, endless noise and a complete lack of any awareness.
I hope even more than before that we get an Emery tactical masterclass, luck and all.
H&V really is a heady place in comparison.
-
I went on a few of their forums last night. Despite trying, i couldn’t find any humility nevermind a philosophical discussion on the nature of luck. Virtually every post I read about the match on Saturday, was ‘we’re shit’, ‘we’ve had a good run but only played shit’, ‘they are going to batter us’, they f***ing hate us’…..it goes on and on, endless noise and a complete lack of any awareness.
I hope even more than before that we get an Emery tactical masterclass, luck and all.
H&V really is a heady place in comparison.
It makes me laugh when I look on other teams forums before we meet and they always cite someone being a bit of a div on Villa Talk as what we are all like.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
Anyone read 'The Diceman'?
... it's all in the roll of the dice.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
Anyone read 'The Diceman'?
... it's all in the roll of the dice.
I read that book as a kid and absolutely loved it.
I sometimes think about re-reading it as I'd not be entirely sure how it'd stack up decades later.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
Anyone read 'The Diceman'?
... it's all in the roll of the dice.
I read that book as a kid and absolutely loved it.
I sometimes think about re-reading it as I'd not be entirely sure how it'd stack up decades later.
Yeah, I read it in my teens and thought it was really good.
Go read it and review it, Paulie!
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
That's pretty unbelievable - the last weekend of the Easter holidays, loads of people coming home from hols, bit of closed motorway right in the middle of the country.
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
I was starting to smile about you railing against the definitions by randomly sharing traffic news, a la nice weather today innit. Then I realised this is real info. And it affects me. What bad luck.
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
I was starting to smile about you railing against the definitions by randomly sharing traffic news, a la nice weather today innit. Then I realised this is real info. And it affects me. What bad luck.
You're gonna have the Geordies coming down the M42 as well so better diverting south past Cov
-
"Luck" & "karma" are merely labels we place on events that are always explainable somewhere down the line. Hitting the post is called "unlucky". But it isn't. Its just poor accuracy from the shooter. An incorrect red card is called "unlucky" for one side & lucky for the other, but its just poor refereeing. As for "karma", we as humans tend to see patterns in life. We like to think that something good happening to a good person is due to good karma, yet we ignore when bad things happen to those same good people. We like to think that bad things happen to bad people, yet we ignore when good things happen to bad people. And most of the time, we don't even notice. We sometimes count the hits, yet mostly ignore the misses. Its selection bias, statistical fallacy, whatever one wants to call it. Religious folk do it all the time. Its a "miracle" when Mrs. Johnson survives her car crash. Ignoring the fact that she got in the car crash in the first place...
Your angle on karma is filtered through a Judeo-Christian prioritisation of individual fortunes, so the whole post is about 'luck', not karma - which is fair enough.
(Glenn Hoddle is one of the worst things to happen to Western perceptions of karma.)
I tend to follow Rory's version of karma here. I don't think it needs to be tied to a particular god/life force/... - you can have a secular concept where you have some kind of indirect benefit from being nice to others, because overall it makes the environment/community you live in nicer.
Same applies to a load of religious concepts I find. You can easily have secular versions of the same morality tales of you particularly want them.
None of this should detract from the fact that Newcastle getting relegated at Villa Park twice was funny as fuck, though.
Tbh, that is the stance I take. My individual happiness revolves around the group happiness, therefore, I try to be nice, so that my environment is good. Not everybody subscribes to that mantra, which is where the balance fails & where "good" & "evil" come into play. Most of the "good" & "evil" choices we make, all tend to boil down to us trying our best to find personal happiness.
But yeah, Newcastle being relegated twice at our place was funny & its even funnier that a lot of them still cannot get over the banter that a few of our fans gave them..
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
Anyone read 'The Diceman'?
... it's all in the roll of the dice.
I read that book as a kid and absolutely loved it.
I sometimes think about re-reading it as I'd not be entirely sure how it'd stack up decades later.
Yeah, I read it in my teens and thought it was really good.
Go read it and review it, Paulie!
Andrew 'Diceman' Clay? Surely one of the greatest poets of the 20th century.
-
I went on a few of their forums last night. Despite trying, i couldn’t find any humility nevermind a philosophical discussion on the nature of luck. Virtually every post I read about the match on Saturday, was ‘we’re shit’, ‘we’ve had a good run but only played shit’, ‘they are going to batter us’, they f***ing hate us’…..it goes on and on, endless noise and a complete lack of any awareness.
I hope even more than before that we get an Emery tactical masterclass, luck and all.
H&V really is a heady place in comparison.
It makes me laugh when I look on other teams forums before we meet and they always cite someone being a bit of a div on Villa Talk as what we are all like.
There is one place called "The Mag" where they do that. They selectively pick the most extreme & try to show balance by picking one or two that are realistic... Amusing.
They also decided to selectively pick the last 13 of our 17 games under Emery to try to make the claim that we are nothing but "big stack bullies" because our form is better than theirs since Emery arrived. Which those 13 games would suggest. Ignoring the previous 4 would completely blow their silly little argument out of the water though, which is why they chose to ignore them.
From what I have read of that place, they are still really bitter about those bedsheets, lol... ;D
-
I went on a few of their forums last night. Despite trying, i couldn’t find any humility nevermind a philosophical discussion on the nature of luck. Virtually every post I read about the match on Saturday, was ‘we’re shit’, ‘we’ve had a good run but only played shit’, ‘they are going to batter us’, they f***ing hate us’…..it goes on and on, endless noise and a complete lack of any awareness.
I hope even more than before that we get an Emery tactical masterclass, luck and all.
H&V really is a heady place in comparison.
It makes me laugh when I look on other teams forums before we meet and they always cite someone being a bit of a div on Villa Talk as what we are all like.
There is one place called "The Mag" where they do that. They selectively pick the most extreme & try to show balance by picking one or two that are realistic... Amusing.
They also decided to selectively pick the last 13 of our 17 games under Emery to try to make the claim that we are nothing but "big stack bullies". Which those 13 games would suggest. Ignoring the previous 4 would completely blow their silly little argument out of the water though, which is why they chose to ignore them.
From what I have read of that place, they are still really bitter about those bedsheets, lol... ;D
Nice of them to mention our big stacks, though...
-
As I say twice a season, The Mag was perhaps the most up itself, aren't we wonderful fanzine of the lot. They went out of their way to take other supporters' quotes out of context.
-
As I say twice a season, The Mag was perhaps the most up itself, aren't we wonderful fanzine of the lot. They went out of their way to take other supporters' quotes out of context.
From my interactions with them, most of them are deluded imbeciles & cannot grasp the concept of a bit of banter when it is directed at them...
There are a few of them who comment that find the whole "manufactured rivalry" thing from bedsheet-gate, a bit of nonsense...
-
If we play it from the back they will pick us off - they overload the keeper and centre backs when the keeper tries to play it out, then it gets hoofed to midfield and their defence invariably win it. I'm sure Unai will have an answer though.
-
Fuck my old boots, could somebody please start a punathon to stop the endless luck definitions?
You should be so lucky, lucky, lucky lucky.
Anyone read 'The Diceman'?
... it's all in the roll of the dice.
I read that book as a kid and absolutely loved it.
I sometimes think about re-reading it as I'd not be entirely sure how it'd stack up decades later.
Yeah, I read it in my teens and thought it was really good.
Go read it and review it, Paulie!
Andrew 'Diceman' Clay? Surely one of the greatest poets of the 20th century.
No.
The Dice Man is a 1971 novel by American novelist George Cockcroft, writing under the pen name, "Luke Rhinehart"
-
If we play it from the back they will pick us off - they overload the keeper and centre backs when the keeper tries to play it out, then it gets hoofed to midfield and their defence invariably win it. I'm sure Unai will have an answer though.
You may be right, mallo, but if they overload the keeper and centre-backs, surely their capacity to win the ball from the long hoof would be somewhat diminished. Or am I missing something?
-
No ASM this weekend. Hamstring injury.
-
Anything from this game please. I will take a dull 0-0 right now. I take it by ASM you don't mean my third favourite hip hop DJs? I dpnt remember ever seeing them at the Villa.
-
Anything from this game please. I will take a dull 0-0 right now. I take it by ASM you don't mean my third favourite hip hop DJs? I dpnt remember ever seeing them at the Villa.
Thankfully no. But no Allan Saint Maximin down the left helps. He's unpredictable but dangerous when on form.
-
ASM was never making it back for this game, Almiron might make the bench although most likely only as a last ditch effort to grab a result if they are losing.
-
In the words of iron maiden we make our own luck, we create our destiny. 2-2 is my prediction.
-
As I say twice a season, The Mag was perhaps the most up itself, aren't we wonderful fanzine of the lot. They went out of their way to take other supporters' quotes out of context.
I thought I'd take a look for myself to see what all the fuss is about. A lot of them seem obsessed with the idea that we're obsessed with them. Some of them have even taken up that hilarious Small Heath jibe of calling us the vile.I've never heard any villa fans mention them unless we are playing them. Lot's of them think THAT banner represents how all villa fans feel about them but the truth is it was a couple of lads who took the opportunity to have some "bants" at their expense and boy did it work. Good work whoever did it. It's a date that will go down in infamy.
-
They're still crying over a couple of banners from 09. It's not our fault they were shit and went down. Dismal bunch.
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
I was starting to smile about you railing against the definitions by randomly sharing traffic news, a la nice weather today innit. Then I realised this is real info. And it affects me. What bad luck.
You're gonna have the Geordies coming down the M42 as well so better diverting south past Cov
I'm not very good on following routes, I usually just follow Google maps.
So I'm to off motorway a bit to get home to Luton? Presuming I manage to get there. I may need to self a joint selfie Drummond to prove I'm not up to no good (appropriate emoji selected)
-
They're still crying over a couple of banners from 09. It's not our fault they were shit and went down. Dismal bunch.
Deflecting blame from their local hero who took them down. Nothing to do with the 37 games that came before.
They are the 'loyalest' football supporters the world has ever seen though. According to themselves of course.
-
Bit of traffic news for anybody who usually goes back on the southbound M6. It's shut from junction 4 to 3 southbound all weekend, so if that's how you usually get home you'll have to find another route.
I was starting to smile about you railing against the definitions by randomly sharing traffic news, a la nice weather today innit. Then I realised this is real info. And it affects me. What bad luck.
You're gonna have the Geordies coming down the M42 as well so better diverting south past Cov
I'm not very good on following routes, I usually just follow Google maps.
So I'm to off motorway a bit to get home to Luton? Presuming I manage to get there. I may need to self a joint selfie Drummond to prove I'm not up to no good (appropriate emoji selected)
I don't think anyone has ever used me to try and prove that. If anything it's the other way around.....
-
Is there are more easily rattled fanbase in the country than this lot? There's a few contenders for sure but to be still upset about a bedsheet 14 years later takes some beating.
Anyway they've had a great season so fair play for that - an entertaining 2-2.
-
these Geordie morons have more self-importance than Sam Smith. Hope we beat them.
-
My work's head office is in Newcastle and so I go there 4/5 times a year. Pretty much every Newcastle fan I've met in person seem to be perfectly rational human beings who hold Villa in similar regard to how most of us hold Newcastle, i.e. broad indifference. Every Newcastle fan on the internet however appears to be the complete opposite of this. Maybe I should just ignore the internet.
-
it was a couple of lads who took the opportunity to have some "bants" at their expense and boy did it work. Good work whoever did it. It's a date that will go down in infamy.
It was Leighton who used to post on here and VT wasn't it? He seemed a decent sort but I didnt think the banners were up to much. And we've had to live with the manufactured 'rivalry' ever since.
Does anyone give a shit about them?
-
it was a couple of lads who took the opportunity to have some "bants" at their expense and boy did it work. Good work whoever did it. It's a date that will go down in infamy.
It was Leighton who used to post on here and VT wasn't it? He seemed a decent sort but I didnt think the banners were up to much. And we've had to live with the manufactured 'rivalry' ever since.
Does anyone give a shit about them?
I know he did the David O'Leary "We're not fickle" one, not sure about any others.
-
it was a couple of lads who took the opportunity to have some "bants" at their expense and boy did it work. Good work whoever did it. It's a date that will go down in infamy.
It was Leighton who used to post on here and VT wasn't it? He seemed a decent sort but I didnt think the banners were up to much. And we've had to live with the manufactured 'rivalry' ever since.
Does anyone give a shit about them?
It was him, yes. I find him a bit of an embarrassment on Twitter to be honest. Maybe the Geordies who think Villa fans are Tories have been listening to him banging on. (Although I think Farage, Fox and co are more his thing).
-
It was him and he is awful on Twitter.
-
I seem to recall blocking him on Twitter a while ago for some pretty obnoxious views on some culture war issue he was banging on about. Life’s too short to give these morons your time.
-
My work's head office is in Newcastle and so I go there 4/5 times a year. Pretty much every Newcastle fan I've met in person seem to be perfectly rational human beings who hold Villa in similar regard to how most of us hold Newcastle, i.e. broad indifference. Every Newcastle fan on the internet however appears to be the complete opposite of this. Maybe I should just ignore the internet.
Why not? You're already a tax ignorer.
-
It was indeed Leighton, he seemed to hint at it here https://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=55945.msg3066538#msg3066538
Doesnt seem to have been around in many years.
-
Back to the match tomorrow. I'm getting a strangely optimistic feeling the closer the game gets. There's a feeling in my water this morning that I'm taking as a sign. Let's go Villa.
-
The Tifo analysis is always really good and the second part of this video covers our tactics really well.
The first part explains my point regarding luck far better than I could - notwithstanding your strict definition. I know people will say it's down to Emery's tactics and excellent play from Watkins and Martinez, and I get all that - and the video acknowledges it. My overarching point really was that you need some fortune to over perform you stats by so much.
Whatever your view, it's a good watch and it's nice to see Villa getting some coverage.
-
Ha, just posted that vid in the Europe thread as the discussion might get stopped here once the pre-match thread is moved.
-
I dismissed that as soon as the bloke opened his mouth. We're not as good as people think we are because of the numbers. Complete bollocks.
-
I dismissed that as soon as the bloke opened his mouth. We're not as good as people think we are because of the numbers. Complete bollocks.
It's not bollock Bren. Watch the whole video then make up your mind.
-
Ha, just posted that vid in the Europe thread as the discussion might get stopped here once the pre-match thread is moved.
Yes, probably better discussed over there - good point.
-
Looking forward to this one, has the potential to being a cracking match, going Villa to win by the odd goal.
-
I dismissed that as soon as the bloke opened his mouth. We're not as good as people think we are because of the numbers. Complete bollocks.
It's not bollock Bren. Watch the whole video then make up your mind.
Watched it. Absolute bollocks of the highest order.
One example, according to the stats he's presenting, we were "lucky" against Spurs. No we weren't, in any way whatsoever. It was a dull first half where we kept it tight and they didn't have a shot on target. Second half, we were much the better side, had more chances and shots and deservedly won. We had Olsen in goal FFS, and anything remotely close to him usually goes straight in the net. The fact he didn't have a save to make shows it was an excellent defensive performance.
-
I think its interesting as long as you dont use these stats and the conclusions drawn from them exclusively. Stats have a place in the game and thats why so many teams have a department to analyse them, but they arent the be all and end all.
-
Was it paul_e that said the tactics Emery favours will always lead to goals scored always being better than Expected goals?
Stats can be interesting in isolation but when extrapolated to form conclusions, it can be misleading.
Fwiw, I think it's hard to not say we're over-performing. We're getting by with 11/12 players who you can see have a future with us and we should have a big summer ahead to improve what we have and be able to achieve things on merit rather than being seen as over-performing.
-
I dismissed that as soon as the bloke opened his mouth. We're not as good as people think we are because of the numbers. Complete bollocks.
It's not bollock Bren. Watch the whole video then make up your mind.
I agree with the analysis and do believe that we have overperformed and the manager has squeezed more out of the lemon. This is not sustainable unless we get better players in the summer.
-
Villa to win 2-1. A late winner. Geordies moaning like fuck. Fuck them. All.
-
Villa to win 2-1. A late winner. Geordies moaning like fuck. Fuck them. All.
Could only be bettered by giving them a good 4 or 5 goal shoeing.
-
We've had comfortable 2-0 home wins for the last three years against them, and I see no reason to start doing things differently now.
A comfortable 2-0 home win.
-
Was it paul_e that said the tactics Emery favours will always lead to goals scored always being better than Expected goals?
Stats can be interesting in isolation but when extrapolated to form conclusions, it can be misleading.
Fwiw, I think it's hard to not say we're over-performing. We're getting by with 11/12 players who you can see have a future with us and we should have a big summer ahead to improve what we have and be able to achieve things on merit rather than being seen as over-performing.
Yep, last season his team actually underperformed on goals scored (7 down on xG) but massively overperformed on goals conceded (nearly 11 less than the numbers suggest).
Aside from that he was pretty much as expected at Villarreal but his stats for Arsenal and PSG reflect what he's done with us.
Moving on I think we do have some players over-performing right now but my point all along is that i don't think that's luck, it's form, interchanging the 2 takes away from the fact that improvements in form are something you can control. Fundamentally managers like Bruce and Gerrard rely on a bit of luck to win games, managers like Emery use tactics, coaching and a tight focus on specifics to improve players form and create exactly the sort of thing we've seen. That's why I don't like it being called luck, it doesn't mean what we've seen is entirely sustainable with the squad we have (it also doesn't mean it isn't) but it is a situation we've created through our own efforts, not by just relying on chance.
Final point on xG/xGA/xP (and with apologies to bob who took exception to this before) - in general teams in the top half will over-perform on 2 or 3 of those and teams in the bottom half will under-perform on 2 or 3, that's the effect of form and confidence and it can't be accounted for in the stats without making assumptions but its a very real and measurable thing.
-
I think its interesting as long as you dont use these stats and the conclusions drawn from them exclusively. Stats have a place in the game and thats why so many teams have a department to analyse them, but they arent the be all and end all.
Exactly.
There's no point looking at the Spurs game and saying, told you it's all bullshit. Stats give a general picture over a period of time. It's not some kind of snake oil, why do people think clubs use them so heavily?
-
I think its interesting as long as you dont use these stats and the conclusions drawn from them exclusively. Stats have a place in the game and thats why so many teams have a department to analyse them, but they arent the be all and end all.
Exactly.
There's no point looking at the Spurs game and saying, told you it's all bullshit. Stats give a general picture over a period of time. It's not some kind of snake oil, why do people think clubs use them so heavily?
Just to be completely clear here, I'm a stats nerd, I have qualifications in data analysis and, if anything, I'm over-reliant on stats to make my points (there's plenty of evidence for this on this forum, I'm sure I've bored most of you with at various times).
I obviously see the value of stats and absolutely get why clubs use them, I just have issues with seeing stats being 'off' and jumping straight to vague concepts of luck instead of looking for simpler explanations is a bad idea.
-
I think its interesting as long as you dont use these stats and the conclusions drawn from them exclusively. Stats have a place in the game and thats why so many teams have a department to analyse them, but they arent the be all and end all.
Exactly.
There's no point looking at the Spurs game and saying, told you it's all bullshit. Stats give a general picture over a period of time. It's not some kind of snake oil, why do people think clubs use them so heavily?
Indeed, stats can be a great tool for revealing hidden (or less obvious) insights, but only when you use them correctly. The shorter the period of analysis, the less relevant they become. Game by game they can tell you SOME valuable things, but over a period of games, or a season, they can tell you plenty.
It's also worth pointing out that the sort of stats WE see as fans, is a fraction of what the clubs see with the statistical analysis they pay for on a game by game basis. The younger managers and coaches in the game today are all over this stuff.
Personally I'd love to see some of the statistical analysis that goes on after the games we play. It won't ever become public, as there will be a competitive advantage to keeping it secret, but I guarantee it's happening.
-
Has that nice man with the boyish looks, Eddie Howe, said anything lovely about us in his pre-match presser? It's too long to watch (half an hour) and Newcastle's Pravda doesn't mention what he said about us in their textual highlights.
-
Has that nice man with the boyish looks, Eddie Howe, said anything lovely about us in his pre-match presser? It's too long to watch (half an hour) and Newcastle's Pravda doesn't mention what he said about us in their textual highlights.
There are some selected quotes on the Beeb. https://www.bbc.com/sport/live/football/65260258/page/3
-
Newcastle manager Eddie Howe speaking about Saturday's Premier League opponents Aston Villa: “He [Unai Emery] has got a clear philosophy. They very rarely change what they do and tactically they’re interesting.
"They’re going to be a tough challenge for us and we’re going to have to get certain parts of our defensive structures right or they will give us big problems.
"They’ve got a goalscorer in Ollie Watkins who has done very well this season, he’s scored a lot of goals, especially of late, and defensively they’ve been solid.
"Their run is a good one and at home they’ve been good, so it’s another tough away game for us.”
-
Ta.
He sounds confident enough...
Nice nod from Pep to Dean:
Pep Guardiola on Dean Smith's return to the Premier League with Leicester: "I'm delighted he is back. First when he was with Aston Villa and then Norwich, the relationship was good. I know from Jack [Grealish] the exceptional person he is, and the good vibes he creates. That will help Leicester right now.
-
Cash out, contrary to my earlier itk
-
Cash out, contrary to my earlier itk
Already? That's not very optimistic.
I haven't even put a bet on, anyway.
-
I think its interesting as long as you dont use these stats and the conclusions drawn from them exclusively. Stats have a place in the game and thats why so many teams have a department to analyse them, but they arent the be all and end all.
Exactly.
There's no point looking at the Spurs game and saying, told you it's all bullshit. Stats give a general picture over a period of time. It's not some kind of snake oil, why do people think clubs use them so heavily?
Just to be completely clear here, I'm a stats nerd, I have qualifications in data analysis and, if anything, I'm over-reliant on stats to make my points (there's plenty of evidence for this on this forum, I'm sure I've bored most of you with at various times).
I obviously see the value of stats and absolutely get why clubs use them, I just have issues with seeing stats being 'off' and jumping straight to vague concepts of luck instead of looking for simpler explanations is a bad idea.
Yeah, I think that last paragraph is where my views stand. Stats like xG will tell you part of the story, but they're not the one single factor which decides games. It's more, it's think, about a measure of how effective your build up play is vs the oppositions defending. Cos it's just telling you how likely the average player who gets a shot in that position is likely to score. Like the xG for a penalty is always 0.79, but that is from the average designated penalty taker against the average goalkeeper in the normal circumstances you get a penalty. Probably doesn't give you much useful information about how likely Matty Cash is to score the 4th penalty in a penalty shootout.
-
Get a load of this.....from NUFC Blog
‘Sob on the Tyne’ – An apology to Newcastle fans from Aston Villa
April 14, 2023 Andy Macfarlane
On behalf of the non-knuckle dragging cohort of our fan base (trust me, we do exist!) I want to apologise for the whole embarrassing ‘Sob on the Tyne’ fiasco.
Seeing a small section of fans display that petty banner on that day back in the 08/09 season where you got relegated definitely didn’t fill me with pride about my club.
It made me cringe like I’d never cringed before. And what made it worse was up until this point there had been no bad blood between two clubs who were (and still are) one of the main pillars of English football.
It just happened because some unwashed ‘members’ of our fan base wanted to revel in another club’s misfortune.
We know all too well about the pain it causes when an owner mismanages and neglects your club to the point of ruin (we too, were perilously close to the brink under a certain ‘Dr’ Tony Xia a few years back).
And so I wanted to write this article, with our huge tie this weekend looming, to let you know that the vast majority of Villa fans were never behind such a crass and pointless emblem of what was a very ‘small club mentality kind of move, you know, the sort of thing a Mackem would do.
In fact, what has filled me with pride recently is seeing a lot of Villa and Toon fans on social media both praising each other’s clubs for the excellent seasons they’ve had. Another thing we both have in common (other than being exposed to the Cabbage’s inept football), is knowing the feeling of watching on as the Sky ‘big six’ get all the silverware and plaudits, so for sleeping giants (that are awaking) clubs like ours to disrupt this season that can only be a good thing for the game.
You guys look like more and more like a top four side with each passing game and for us, we looked down and out just before the World Cup before our Lord and saviour Unai Emery came along and completely revitalised the club. What a time to be a Villa or a Toon fan!
So, as we welcome you to Villa Park on Saturday afternoon I wanted to wish the Toon all the best and hope you accept this olive branch no matter what the score is at full time.
UTV and HWTL!
-
That made me cringe, liked I've never cringed before.
-
Anyone know a good place to watch the match in Bruges?
-
Colin Farrell or more likely Brendan Gleeson will sort you out. He's Villa after all.
-
Fuck off Andy.
-
The banner made him cringe, yet he's written that nauseating shite?
I'm seconding Risso.
-
What?!
Please tell me that's a wind up?
-
I’m with Risso.
-
I’m with Risso.
And me. What a crawling weirdo.
-
I'm Risso.
We are all Risso
-
I'm Risso.
We are all Risso
If I'm Risso, I've decided to lend Sexual Ealing ten grand.
-
That's pretty pathetic. I'd maybe have taken it seriously without the sad little jab at Sunderland.
-
If that's his opinion he's entitled to it, but "vast majority"? I think not. And the dig at Sunderland (a far better club with far better supporters) smacks of desperation to be liked.
-
Where's Leighton when you need him, I want a 'Andy Macfarlane is a TW*T' banner.
The fella should stick to Stafford Rangers or fuck off and support the Saudis.
-
You're all a bunch of knuckle draggers. Andy speaks truth to Saudi power.
-
Total arsehole this ****** Andy. I hope when he reads back his post he cringes like he’s nicer cringed before. And yes having a go at Mackems, possibly the best footy fans in the world is desperate.
-
What a prat.
-
He better not have been apologising on MY behalf the presumptuous Twat.
-
Link to blog so we can laugh at the twerp?
-
Ow fuck!*
* Sorry that was my knuckles scraping on the ground.
-
I read that reply in my head using this exact voice
-
What a fucking wanker! Fuck off!
"You guys"
-
Haven't heard from Andy since he wrote that letter to sha claiming to be a Bolton fan. Sad twat.
-
I thought the banner and the silly rivalry and hatred is all a bit pathetic really.
I think Newcastle are a decent bunch for the most part.
That letter is appalling though.
I think it is time everyone moved on. I went on one of their forums and a few on there feel the same. Not all but a few.
-
Yes, they do need to get over themselves and move on, the precious little souls.
-
Link to blog so we can laugh at the twerp?
https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2023/04/14/sob-on-the-tyne-an-apology-to-newcastle-fans-from-aston-villa
-
I understand the basic message but it's presented in such utter fawning self-loathing style that it's hard to believe a Villa fan wrote it.
Does anyone care about that banner 15 years later?
They got the chance to laugh at us after that anyway as we produced one of those comedically pathetic relegations.
-
I thought the banner and the silly rivalry and hatred is all a bit pathetic really.
I think Newcastle are a decent bunch for the most part.
That letter is appalling though.
I think it is time everyone moved on. I went on one of their forums and a few on there feel the same. Not all but a few.
never was a rivalry, don't know how they would cope if they had Birmingham Albion or Wolverhampton to contend with
-
I understand the basic message but it's presented in such utter fawning self-loathing style that it's hard to believe a Villa fan wrote it.
Does anyone care about that banner 15 years later?
They got the chance to laugh at us after that anyway as we produced one of those comedically pathetic relegations.
only time I remember the banner is when it's brought up on here
-
They couldn't laugh at us when we went down as they came down with us. Which in itself is very funny.
-
Get a load of this.....from NUFC Blog
‘Sob on the Tyne’ – An apology to Newcastle fans from Aston Villa
April 14, 2023 Andy Macfarlane
On behalf of the non-knuckle dragging cohort of our fan base (trust me, we do exist!) I want to apologise for the whole embarrassing ‘Sob on the Tyne’ fiasco.
Seeing a small section of fans display that petty banner on that day back in the 08/09 season where you got relegated definitely didn’t fill me with pride about my club.
It made me cringe like I’d never cringed before. And what made it worse was up until this point there had been no bad blood between two clubs who were (and still are) one of the main pillars of English football.
It just happened because some unwashed ‘members’ of our fan base wanted to revel in another club’s misfortune.
We know all too well about the pain it causes when an owner mismanages and neglects your club to the point of ruin (we too, were perilously close to the brink under a certain ‘Dr’ Tony Xia a few years back).
And so I wanted to write this article, with our huge tie this weekend looming, to let you know that the vast majority of Villa fans were never behind such a crass and pointless emblem of what was a very ‘small club mentality kind of move, you know, the sort of thing a Mackem would do.
In fact, what has filled me with pride recently is seeing a lot of Villa and Toon fans on social media both praising each other’s clubs for the excellent seasons they’ve had. Another thing we both have in common (other than being exposed to the Cabbage’s inept football), is knowing the feeling of watching on as the Sky ‘big six’ get all the silverware and plaudits, so for sleeping giants (that are awaking) clubs like ours to disrupt this season that can only be a good thing for the game.
You guys look like more and more like a top four side with each passing game and for us, we looked down and out just before the World Cup before our Lord and saviour Unai Emery came along and completely revitalised the club. What a time to be a Villa or a Toon fan!
So, as we welcome you to Villa Park on Saturday afternoon I wanted to wish the Toon all the best and hope you accept this olive branch no matter what the score is at full time.
UTV and HWTL!
I thought the banner was great. And I think that sanctimonious bollocks forum post is the most cringeworthy thing I've seen for a long time. And since when was revelling in another club's misfortune a bad thing - everyone's quick enough to revel in yours. There's only one club I care about and as far as I.m concerned any misfortune that comes the way of Saudi Toon FC is all to the good. Sob on the Tyne for a third time tomorrow, with any luck, and the more shirtless barcodes crying into their Brown Ale I see after, the happier I will be .
Perhaps I should pop on their forum and post this, just to set the record straight.
-
They battered us 6-0 or 6-1 the first time we played again and I took it like a man.
-
They battered us 6-0 or 6-1 the first time we played again and I took it like a man.
I think they’ve put 6 past us twice since then which makes it all the more mystifying that they don’t move on.
-
They battered us 6-0 or 6-1 the first time we played again and I took it like a man.
I think they’ve put 6 past us twice since then which makes it all the more mystifying that they don’t move on.
Wasn't it the McDonald interregnum after MON went - we beat West Ham 3-1 at home on the first day and looked really decent, then went to Newcastle and got beaten 6-0 mostly by Andy Carroll.
-
There's no rivalry, and there's no hatred. They're in joint second place, along with 89 other clubs, on my list of which of the other 91 League clubs I don't wish well upon the most. They just happen to have left me with some really funny memories.
-
Yep the 6-0 absolute drubbing was more than enough karma for the “banner”. And fair play to the Geordie fan who bought me numerous Heinekens in a bar in Corfu as the 4th, 5th and 6th went in.
-
Link to blog so we can laugh at the twerp?
https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2023/04/14/sob-on-the-tyne-an-apology-to-newcastle-fans-from-aston-villa
Majority of them on the replies are sound.
-
Link to blog so we can laugh at the twerp?
https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2023/04/14/sob-on-the-tyne-an-apology-to-newcastle-fans-from-aston-villa
Majority of them on the replies are sound.
It looks to me like most of them are twats, especially the other Villa fan on there
-
Everyone saying "Fuck off Andy" is starting to make me paranoid...
Oh wait, my therapist keeps telling me that the world "doesn't" revolve around me...
There is no way an actual Villa fan wrote that...
-
Would love a win against these, better still a repeat of the match where Dyer/Bowyer decide to twat each other.
2-1 us. Ollie and Mings header from a corner to win it, Isaac for them.
-
Link to blog so we can laugh at the twerp?
https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2023/04/14/sob-on-the-tyne-an-apology-to-newcastle-fans-from-aston-villa
Majority of them on the replies are sound.
It looks to me like most of them are twats, especially the other Villa fan on there
Looks like that to me too - Come on Villa FTF !
-
I still hope we FTF obviously.
-
I can only summarise it thus:
Before 2008, I knew one Newcastle fan and he was a twat, so I found it funny when they lost or did shit.
I and every football fan I knew (Villa, SHA, Coventry, West Brom, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester, Everton, West Ham, Ipswich - it was pre-2017 so I'd never met a Wolves fan) found it funny that they went down.
One or two Villa fans made a couple of banners that were not endorsed by the club. For some reason, many Newcastle fans found this fabulously offensive.
I have subsequently known three other Newcastle fans, all twats, and all have raised the issue of the banners (one of them more than 11 years later) to explain why they hate Villa more than any other club.
I now find it funnier when Newcastle lose or do shit, and Andy MacFarlane is a fucking langer.
-
Oh Andy.
Imagine being sad enough to crave love from the horse punchers.
HWTL!
-
Horse punchers.Who remembers Pete the Greek?
-
I'm not feeling this game at all. I think all kinds of records could to fall - we might not score, Watkins might not score, Traore might not score, Martinez might do something stupid. And it's on at 5.30am here. We always lose when I wake up to the result. 2-4.
-
I'm not feeling this game at all. I think all kinds of records could to fall - we might not score, Watkins might not score, Traore might not score, Martinez might do something stupid. And it's on at 5.30am here. We always lose when I wake up to the result. 2-4.
I've already predicted a loss, so blame me.
I owe those magnanimous, good-humoured, down-to-earth and chiselled geordies one.
I've been much too harsh in the past, by mislabelling them as deluded, loudmouth, crybaby, morbidly obese tossers who trash the shit out of every ground they visit like it's an Auf Wiedersehen, Pet-themed episode of It's a Knockout.
I say we're due a loss, the toon army leave happy (but still crying because we haven't painted the streetlights black & white in honour of their visit, or summat) and god help any poor female railway worker (or rather 'train-pet') who finds herself in charge of the pies & pasties on the journey home.
If I'm wrong, may I drink an entire bottle of Newcastle Brown Ale by way of absolution.
Oh, and Andy MacFarlane is still an inflamed urethra.
-
Andy is clearly trying to get into the knickers (or pants) of a Newcastle fan. It's the only excuse I can think of that justifies such a sycophantic attempt at unnecessary atonement.
Certainly the only time I debase myself with similar levels of grovelling are when I've been told to sleep on the couch.
-
I'm not feeling this game at all. I think all kinds of records could to fall - we might not score, Watkins might not score, Traore might not score, Martinez might do something stupid. And it's on at 5.30am here. We always lose when I wake up to the result. 2-4.
Same here. I've had a funny feeling in my water for the last day or so.
Although that might just be all the asparagus I've been eating.
-
I have a bad feeling.
-
I can only summarise it thus:
Before 2008, I knew one Newcastle fan and he was a twat, so I found it funny when they lost or did shit.
I and every football fan I knew (Villa, SHA, Coventry, West Brom, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester, Everton, West Ham, Ipswich - it was pre-2017 so I'd never met a Wolves fan) found it funny that they went down.
One or two Villa fans made a couple of banners that were not endorsed by the club. For some reason, many Newcastle fans found this fabulously offensive.
I have subsequently known three other Newcastle fans, all twats, and all have raised the issue of the banners (one of them more than 11 years later) to explain why they hate Villa more than any other club.
I now find it funnier when Newcastle lose or do shit, and Andy MacFarlane is a fucking langer.
I understand its the same for them with Everton too. Not sure why.
-
All I know is that I hate playing these lot, they're simultaneously the underdog and everyone's second team.
-
I can only summarise it thus:
Before 2008, I knew one Newcastle fan and he was a twat, so I found it funny when they lost or did shit.
I and every football fan I knew (Villa, SHA, Coventry, West Brom, Tottenham, Arsenal, Leicester, Everton, West Ham, Ipswich - it was pre-2017 so I'd never met a Wolves fan) found it funny that they went down.
One or two Villa fans made a couple of banners that were not endorsed by the club. For some reason, many Newcastle fans found this fabulously offensive.
I have subsequently known three other Newcastle fans, all twats, and all have raised the issue of the banners (one of them more than 11 years later) to explain why they hate Villa more than any other club.
I now find it funnier when Newcastle lose or do shit, and Andy MacFarlane is a fucking langer.
I understand its the same for them with Everton too. Not sure why.
To be fair, though, Everton fans ARE twats, so I'm with them on that one.
-
Hope he goes for Traore today it will show confidence in our attacking intent to win especially as we’re at home, and he’s also scored 2 in 2 games
Dendonker or Chambers sends out a message of containment, and imo neither actually improve the team
-
just putting it out there - Trippier is a total prick.
-
Can't remember the last time the pre match thread has run to 20 plus pages and there are still a few hours to go. Most of the content seems to be debating why they are so obsessed with us where we don't care. Looks like they may have a point! Nervous about the game but would love it just love it we stuff them UTV
-
The national media are just starting to sit up and notice us now. Win today and I think we will be getting a lot more attention over the coming week.
-
The national media are just starting to sit up and notice us now. Win today and I think we will be getting a lot more attention over the coming week.
Conversely, lose, and it'll be proof that we're not smashing our xG or whatever that nonsense means.
-
Xg will be 10 and we'll get 1.
-
just putting it out there - Trippier is a total prick.
Haha. What has he done?
-
Omg! They've just been discussing our rivalry on Talk Sport. Dear God, those Geordies really know how to hold a grudge! They are so bitter, it's actually quite funny. They had the Villa fan on who organised the banners, and even he says it's about time they got over it, it was only supposed to be a bit of a joke. The Geordie fan finished off with something like we're a small club, forever in their shadow. They really do have delusions of grandeur!
-
just putting it out there - Trippier is a total prick.
Haha. What has he done?
constant shithousery, you'll see if they get the lead. No worse than Young or Martinez, but they're ours, so that's ok