Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on August 23, 2022, 09:37:39 PM
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We’re through. Main thing I suppose. Good in patches. No one fooled however.
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Pleased we're through. First half was shit against a third division side. Fortunately they tired early second half and we did a professional job after that. McGinn, what has happened to him.
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Much better second half. I should bloody well think so.
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The send half was a lot better, the first half very worrying.
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Job done. That is all.
Good night
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Up the Villa!
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Job done
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I thought we were ok against a not too bad Bolton. Douglas L was good, Mcginn wasnt.
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Terrible first half, but were showing signs of being better in the second half. Onwards and upwards - McGinn is well short of what he needs to be.
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Hopefully we get Albion in the next round...
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Glad to be in the next round. Well done the players!
Tougher tests await our beleaguered manager.
Cam and Tim 7 mins vs league 1 opposition...meh!
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Young did play well at RB I thought.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
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Terrible first half, but were showing signs of being better in the second half. Onwards and upwards - McGinn is well short of what he needs to be.
The first half didn't bother me that much. It's a cup game, you don't always just stroll over teams from the off, especially away from home. Good win and hopefully a confidence booster.
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Absolute garbage team formation and tactics yet again against a weakened 3rd division side with a pub goalie who gifted us goals.
The only positive is in the hat for the next round!
McGinn - WTF.
A win that truly papers over massive cracks.
Gerrard please go.
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Young did play well at RB I thought.
Yep, he was very good. First half was shocking. Second half much better, their keeper let's be honest was key but we annihilated them for a finish. Maybe a combination of them getting tired and our three attacking subs looking very sharp. The form of McGinn and Coutinho is a big worry, Kamara very disappointing again. Felt sorry for McGinn missing that chance, he needed a boost. Class goal from Bailey.
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Is Mcginn really the first name on the teamsheet now? Absolute joke, he's not a leader.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
If you can't find some positives or even make an attempt at being happy when we win, then seriously, find another hobby.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
Blimey. The first half was poor, but there were positive signs in the second half and some nice interplay.
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Job done: through to the next round. I was particularly impressed by our marauding vocal captain, who dragged us through a difficult fixture by the scruff of the neck and led by example. Awesome.
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It’s a win. The weaknesses are still obvious but hopefully that’ll be addressed in the next week or so. I really can’t find it in myself to lay into any manager after a win. I do have reservations but that’s for another time. UTV
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Great win. McGinn looks a shadow of the player he used to be. Subs did well.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
Blimey. The first half was poor, but there were positive signs in the second half and some nice interplay.
I think this was a bit like in the second half of the everton game - theres just some faint signs that things might click.
Just really need to build on that, and work out why we never really click
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There's always going to be one or two posters really unhappy with a 4 1 away win, its the nature of forums.
From the little I saw of him I think Tim has a big future.
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Positives
- A good away win which should bring some confidence and into the next round of the cup.
- Lovely goals from Bailey and Luiz. Digne's first goal will hopefully help his confidence in contributing in attack.
- Archer brought some energy and more thrust to the attack. It may have been against tiring and demoralised legs but I'd like to see him and Watkins start. It may bring more out of Coutinho (whom we can assume now is never going to start with Buendia) with more runners and pressers in front of him.
- Came back to win after going a goal down.
Negatives
- McGinn. Awful. As a few have said in the match thread comments, McGinn is going to be Gerrard's downfall and I agree.
- Watkins petulance at being substituted. Captain or manager need to have a word and bring him in line.
- The same problems we've seen already are still persisting without redress. In the first half Bolton exploited these. A better side would have hurt us more.
- Still no clean sheet this season. Poor considering who we've played.
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I take heart in some way from the poor first half and the improvement in the second half. We could have shrunk but we didn’t and that’s encouraging. Lots more to do, but it’s progress.
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It's hard to fathom how poor SJM has become over the last couple of months. I can't quite put my finger on it, but he just isn't doing anything well at the moment. Sad state of affairs for him, given he's got the armband now. Let's hope he can turn it around.
I was really happy to see Dougie, Leon and Digne (rough first half aside) get on the scoresheet. Hopefully a good boost of confidence for all of them.
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Happy with the second half and controlled the game after the second went in, Digne gets his first in a Villa shirt and nice goal from Bailey.
Not sure what's happened to McGinn, he doesn't even use his fat arse any more to shield the ball.
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I didn’t see the game but followed it here
The consensus seems that we were rubbish first half and yet, with no changes for the first 25 minutes , we were much better second half
So what did we do to improve things?
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We are through but it was still poor.
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Straight forward victory.
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I didn’t see the game but followed it here
The consensus seems that we were rubbish first half and yet, with no changes, we were much better second half
So what did we do to improve things?
Bolton pressed us a lot first half, second half they were knackered and we took advantage.
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As good as we could have hoped for.
Completely in control but they had nothing to lose and threw bodies forward and had a few chances.
We looked good when we got Phil on the ball high up the pitch, not so good when we hit long balls where their limited defenders could attack them.
Big fuck up from Duggie for their goal but overall our best player.
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We are through but it was still poor.
It was fine. We didn't have it completely easy, especially in the first half, but stepped up when required and won at a canter. Countless Villa sides would have struggled tonight.
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Watkins did not look happy when taken off
brushed past Bailey who looked to say, WTF
All's well that ends well but there were some dreadful passages, Mings and Young best players for me. Nice cameo from Archer who should have scored.
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I didn’t see the game but followed it here
The consensus seems that we were rubbish first half and yet, with no changes, we were much better second half
So what did we do to improve things?
We were more precise and purposeful. It wasn’t perfect by any stretch, but some good stuff. Digne and Coutinho had one lovely bit of interplay and it was a shame Digne put it just past the post.
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showed a bit of swagger after the 3rd went in with some lovely keep ball triangles and then some great interplay to make another few chances. Gerrard must have got into them at half time they came out early.
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Their keeper kept the score respectable, and made some utter howlers, i was embarrassed at our third goal and I’ve been a Villa fan for over 40 years.
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McGinn needs dropping.
McGinn out, Tim in.
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McGinn needs dropping.
McGinn out, Tim in.
Well id go Doug, but he does need a spell out of the side.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
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I have no idea what the tactics were but good to get a win. Some individuals showed their class against third rate opposition and a pub team goalie. I thought Cam and Tim looked classy. Ings always looks so sad. Bailey’s goal showed his blistering pace and some of the tricks he has up his sleeve. Not convinced in the slightest by the coaching team.
Play like we did in the first half against Premier League opposition and they’ll be out of sight well. before half time.
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Great to get the win and here's to a home draw tomorrow.
Special mention to Ashley Young. Though he was great tonight.
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In the Netherlands, had a nice day looking at onions and then chilling out at a centre parcs with the family after work. Just checked and we scored 4. Well happy with that. My old man went and reckoned we looked better.
Taking my two youngest to the next game. My five year olds first visit to Villa Park. Less nervous now. Loathe West Ham do hoping for a good win.
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We are through but it was still poor.
It was fine. We didn't have it completely easy, especially in the first half, but stepped up when required and won at a canter. Countless Villa sides would have struggled tonight.
Bolton tired 2nd half and with the team he put out we should be winning, but still...
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Much better 2nd half, which hopefully will give us a bit more confidence for Sunday. Leon's goal best on the night a bit of class, to give Cam only 10 mins or so, did'nt make sense. A well done to Bolton, gave us quite a few problems 1st half, hopefully they will go up this season, their long suffering fans certainly deserve a bit of success.
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A mention for Mings. I thought he was excellent tonight. I reckon he’d make a decent captain, given how poor our current one is.
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Definitely a mixed performance, but with some positives.
Tried to pass through the middle a bit, although some passes were poorly weighted and the receiver's first touch was poor from time to time - a result of the weight?
Tried one touch passing to move it down the wings more quickly.
McGinn very clumsy with his challenges - again.
Ramsey, Archer and McGinn should all have scored in the closing minutes.
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Confidence is a little shot and Bolton scoring first just accentuated the nervousness.
2nd half we showed some fight and determination.
McGinn way off the pace making him captain has backfired massively.
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In the Netherlands, had a nice day looking at onions
You know how to live, its all Rock n Roll with some.
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In the Netherlands, had a nice day looking at onions
You know how to live, its all Rock n Roll with some.
The Dutch absolutely love it when he does the "And that's shallot" gag.
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Maybe the captaincy should be taken off McGinn to let him concentrate on the rest of his game.
Young was our best player, he just did everything right and made no mistakes.
Coutinho still looks like he hasn’t clicked yet with Watkins and Ings.
Luiz had a decent enough game.
Would have been good for McGinn to score, he needs it.
Hopefully this win has a positive effect on the team, and we go into these next 3 games with some confidence.
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McGinn looks very sad to me. Not enjoying his game at all. Maybe he feels guilty about the captaincy.
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McGinn looks completely drained of confidence. Painful to watch him.
Quite amusing that Kamara committed about 10 fouls without getting booked. Not sure how.
I do think Archer looked very sharp playing off the shoulder of defenders and I think he would get opportunities with Coutinho or Buendia in behind him.
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I still love him but all good things and all that..
He probably needs a move as much as we need a freshen up where he plays
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Second half was just what we needed. 5 subs rule is good for us I reckon. We have a strong bench.
I’ve seen many ‘what has happened to McGinn’ posts referring to a recent drop in form - I think he’s struggled since we got promoted. Not even a highlights player now.
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Coutinho’s pass to put Ings through for the pen was excellent.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
If you can't find some positives or even make an attempt at being happy when we win, then seriously, find another hobby.
I'm not fooling myself because we struggled past a 3rd division side. Gerrard is a waste of time. If you don't like it put me on block, if that's possible.
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Good second half, they were out early which suggests they were told to buck their ideas up and everyone upped their game. McGinn is struggling for form though, never shirks responsibility but his touch and decision making seems to have got lost somewhere. Other than that it should have given them a confidence boost for the weekend.
Great goal from Bailey. Archer was lively when he came on, hope we see more of him.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
If you can't find some positives or even make an attempt at being happy when we win, then seriously, find another hobby.
I'm not fooling myself because we struggled past a 3rd division side. Gerrard is a waste of time. If you don't like it put me on block, if that's possible.
I'm not fooling myself either. I'm just pleased that we won. Like I said, if you can't even bring yourself to do that, then what's the point? But yep, I'll block happily. Life's too short.
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No Sanson or Nakamba? Days are numbered for both.
Professional win. Nice goal from Bailey. McGinn and Watkins are a worry.
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Crap. Same mistakes long term as in Ings and Watkins together, McGinn in the side. No faith in younger players. Same game plan. A win but not convinced of anything other than a West Ham beating Sunday.
If you can't find some positives or even make an attempt at being happy when we win, then seriously, find another hobby.
I'm not fooling myself because we struggled past a 3rd division side. Gerrard is a waste of time. If you don't like it put me on block, if that's possible.
I agree we didnt learn a lot tonight but we did show a bit of character to win handsomely. That’s surely a positive.
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Thought Doug, Mings and Young were great
Young showed exactly what we need, a genuine leader out there, McGinn is as much a captain out there as I am from my lounge.
Doug has to start at the weekend. He's a much better footballer than McGinn, but also more effective in this formation than Ramsey.
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Played some decent stuff in parts of the second half, albeit against a tired lower level team.
I watched Digne's goal a few times and I'm still none the wiser as to what their keeper was doing rolling around on the floor. He pretty much gifted us the game, but I suppose he made some decent saves towards the end of the game.
Would've liked to have seen more of Cam, but I think Gerrard was feeling the pressure a bit so stuck with what he knew. Still no Sanson so pretty sure we can write him off which is a shame, how could he possibly offer less than McGinn? He's even got the ass to match.
So overall, meh. We go again.
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Doug and Sanson should start next match.
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I didn’t see the game but followed it here
The consensus seems that we were rubbish first half and yet, with no changes for the first 25 minutes , we were much better second half
So what did we do to improve things?
The basics, running more, tackling more. Matching the opponent physically. We can't be getting too carried away though. Don't think I've seen an entertaining goalkeeping performance like that since Mark Bunn.
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Got to go for the positives or else whats the point? Especially when any kind of win was needed.
Some credit to the team for turning around the performance for me.
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It turned into a comfortable second half after the opposite in the first half.
We were ok overall but neither Kamara nor McGinn inspired any confidence, and I'm not sure what bearing it will have on the league form, but at least we played decently after the break
I've just noticed it's another 11 weeks (!) until the 3rs round is played in November. That must be the longest gap ever between cup rounds in any domestic competition?
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Doug and Sanson should start next match.
Doug, yes.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12680132/bolton-1-4-aston-villa-carabao-cup-highlights
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Thank you.
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https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12680131/danny-ings-bolton-made-it-very-tough-for-us-tonight
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12680154/steven-gerrard-they-ran-out-of-steam-then-our-quality-took-over
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For gods sake, we’ve just won 1-4 away from home where the opposition despite being from a lower league would have been literally bursting to take a premier scalp. How many would it have taken for some to be happy on here???? 1-10???
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Thought Kamara did exactly what we needed him to, harry the opposition facing their own goal, sure he made lots of fouls and was exceptionally lucky not to get a card but he shows immense promise.
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Convincing scoreline v the weakest team we have played since same round last year and the year before.
Now let's see us hammers the Hammers
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I’m amazed how people think Luiz had a good game tonight, ok his corner got us back in the game but he contributes so little to the team, hides, pulls out of tackles, contributed to the Bolton goal, but he’s Brazilian so maybe that blinds some of us.
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Much better 2nd half and some clear pointers to the changes he needs to make. The flat three in midfield just isn't working, especially when McGinn and Ramsey are expected to drop deep and be playmakers. The two wide forwards with Coutinho behind them in a central role also isn't working, especially when Ings and Watkins are expected to drift into wide areas and create things. The full-backs pushing up high and leaving us exposed defensively isn't working and we look very vulnerable as a result.
There were signs in the 2nd half of some solutions though. I thought Kamara and Luiz linked up pretty well in central midfield at times. Coutinho got on the ball in central areas in the final third and this allowed Ings and Watkins to play on the shoulders of defenders which is their strength rather than dropping deep. Coutinho also linked up well with Digne at times when he drifted out to the left. Bailey gave us some width when he came on, which meant we looked a bit more solid in shape and there were more options.
Ditch the flat three in midfield and go with a central two, with Coutinho or Buendia in front of them and get them on the ball in the final third. Play Ings or Watkins as a central striker in front of them and get them on the shoulders of defenders. Get some width in the side so and this will also leave us less exposed and more solid defensively. The clues were there tonight, it's just whether Steven Gerrard has seen them.
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For gods sake, we’ve just won 1-4 away from home where the opposition despite being from a lower league would have been literally bursting to take a premier scalp. How many would it have taken for some to be happy on here???? 1-10???
I can't work out whether he's cross because we won or because we didn't lose. Both probably.
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Good to see Gerrard saying we are working on a few things in the background, transfers wise.
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For gods sake, we’ve just won 1-4 away from home where the opposition despite being from a lower league would have been literally bursting to take a premier scalp. How many would it have taken for some to be happy on here???? 1-10???
There are always some who fill find a cloud amongst the silver linings, they just love to moan, look at post match threads always more posts after we've lost/played badly compared to a win/played well.
I didn't want Gerrard and IF a top manager became available who would come I'd fuck him off, but we've just won 4-1, just enjoy it ffs
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I was a bit confused about why Emi Buendia appeared to be playing centre forward with Cameron Archer on the left for the last 10 minutes or so.
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It's about results and the Manager got the required one on a very tricky night.
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It's his versatility. He is more than comfortable out left as well as out right but is clinical up front.
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In the Netherlands, had a nice day looking at onions and then chilling out at a centre parcs with the family after work. Just checked and we scored 4. Well happy with that. My old man went and reckoned we looked better.
Taking my two youngest to the next game. My five year olds first visit to Villa Park. Less nervous now. Loathe West Ham do hoping for a good win.
I hope your 5yo loves it. Not too late to get a pair of ear defenders delivered in time if you haven't got them, my 3yo now won't wear them pretty much but they were a good (many say essential) option when she first started coming.
I was working, visited one mental health ward where I heard some commentary and someone had it on an ipad in the dining area -was great to see a bunch of blokes having a focus to watch together. The chap I'd come to see was on the phone so perfect excuse to hang out with them all and chat about football & in the end my role (Religious, Spiritual & Cultural Care). I'm amazed I managed to hold someone's gaze without getting distracted as Villa stuck in the 4th, answering questions about meditation, first time in my life I've effectively ignored a Villa goal. Some lovely chats about our culture that is football :)
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It's his versatility. He is more than comfortable out left as well as out right but is clinical up front.
He's sh*t in goal, though.
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Never in doubt.
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Too passive in the first half, but much improved with more intensity second and the quality told pretty quickly.
It ought to have been 7, but happy with some of the things I saw second half.
Worried about McGinn, he looks a pub player right now. He cannot retain possession at all. Ashley Young played well, Luiz looks miles better as an 8. Would like to have seen Archer get more game time, but still, pleasing win that was comfortable in the end. Less said about the first half the better and on we go.
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Just got home... Roadworks on the ring road were a nightmare!
Patchy first half but in the end we could have has two or three more. Still too many unforced errors or careless surrendering of possession in midfield.
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Agree with everything said about McGinn, needs to be dropped. Thought Ings was offside before the penalty and the first half was dire. Think Tim and Arch did well for the little time they had, and Baileys goal was superb.
Prediction, Watkins will be sold in the next few days.
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I don't think he will be but his attitude definitely stinks.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
Those were the days.
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Doug and Sanson should start next match.
Doug, yes.
If we really want Doug to stay surely he has to start some games soon. Sunday would be good
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https://twitter.com/avfcofficial/status/1562195521141633025?s=21&t=rXtNXaSyeUNLL0mwh88_4Q
Practice clearly works
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We can’t play or see how effective Gerrard’s system is with McGinn in the team and without a forward who can more effectively hold the ball up, both in the ground and the air. We’re most at danger of conceding a goal when McGinn has possession...which makes the decision to make him captain absolutely baffling. So either he buys more and more players and we take the risk of it being a waste or he changes up.
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Nice to wake up to a win. I thought we'd struggle, but 4-1 against a potential banana skin team is a good result.
Looking at the lineup, I thought more of our youngsters would get a game, but a win was the most important thing!
Up the Villa
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I'm glad we won. It was important to win. I hope we win again.
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Job done, Young was the pick of the bunch with Watkins working hard and others at times doing ok. They pressed us well first half and we just kept giving the ball away. I’ve excused McGinn for a while now as felt playing him on the right has hampered him but no excuses tonight he was really poor and kept giving the ball away.
I enjoyed the visit up there though as it’s been a while. Thought their fans were pretty noisy but drums should be banned.
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First half I dreamed we could play football like Bolton; they moved the ball around at speed, good control and always looking to bring the ball forward. I'd take Almeida Santos at 6 foot 6 off their hands, looks a strong solid centre half.
A few of our players look way off speed, McGinn and Watkins being the biggest waste of space. As much as SJM has been a hero for us on so many occasions over the years, he looks shot. Sometimes a change is as good as a rest. I'd cash in now whilst he still has some value. Every team needs a fighting midfielder but right now his biggest fight is with the ball. The same with Watkins; cash in, it's embarrassing watching him chasing around the ball like a puppy chasing a beach ball. Both technically are poor, if they don't have it by their age they never will. Watkins is like a poor man's Patrick Bamford and he dreams of going to the World Cup. I hope somebody can get him tickets.
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Just home with the M6 closed at junction 16-15.
First half too passive and lost the physical battle but also were caught standing staring at the 2nd ball far too often, equaliser came at perfect time. 2nd half far more aggressive and Coutinhio had a 15 minute spell where everything went through him and we pulled them apart and broke their resolve. It might only be Bolton but we have to play Coutinhio centrally and give him the ball much further upfield.
I thought young and mings played well and chambers grew into the game.
With McGinn theres obviously doubts about his ability but his confidence is also completely shot. The captaincy is killing him as well, it doesnt come naturally too him and is too much responsibility.only a little thing but at the end it was Martinez, Mings and Young who were right up to the away end, McGinn was holding back, a shame.
For those who can’t enjoy the win, what is the point in you watching really?
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Enjoyed a nice away day, worked out that have been to Wembley 3 times since last one :-)
Pretty professional performance and good to see response to going behind.
Positives;
- Watkins I thought was very lively and good to see he was pissed at being subbed when there were goals to be had
- Other than that odd header for a corner Young did well
- Thought Coutinho looked more up for it than recent performances
- Douglas did well, would play him on Sunday
- All the subs got into the action, shame the keeper saved Archers effort
Negatives;
- Still don’t like all the passing (or fannying about) across the back line, not sure we have good enough ball players to keep that up
- McGinn, I actually didn’t think he was anything like as bad as some have said, for me he is trying to hard, he got about the pitch well and got involved in the interplay but his final ball was invariably too heavy
Was funny being near the Bolton fans, loads of their ‘vocal’ ones were probably too young to even have seen them on PL and with the likes of JayJay Okocha!!
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Not long back after delays on M6, first away game since the league cup final.
Poor first half but played our way back into it in the second.
Mings n Chambers were quite solid although their number 10 got the better of them on a few occasions.
Young was good all game apart from a stray header giving away a corner in first half but was full of running till the end.
Digne, poor first half but improved
Kamara was tidy
McGinn not his best game so true to form
Doug was best player for me and needs to start next game.
Coutinho some nice touches and through balls but doesn’t get the ball enough in dangerous positions.
Watkins worked hard as usual but showed some poor touches and should have scored in first half.
Ings was on the periphery but did come alive on occasions around the box and should have had a few more.
System is still poor for me and we’ll get turned over again by better teams. Centre mids pushing wide, forwards on opposite wings not working together, looked more solid with Doug who did well but McGinn was poor again.
What the hell was the keeper doing for Digne’s goal although he did make up for it with decent saves from Archer and McGinn.
Nice to see Alisha Lehmann sitting a few seats away, sure she would have been pleased with Dougs performance.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
Those were the days.
Heskey - the original false number nine.
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Too passive in the first half, but much improved with more intensity second and the quality told pretty quickly.
It ought to have been 7, but happy with some of the things I saw second half.
Worried about McGinn, he looks a pub player right now. He cannot retain possession at all. Ashley Young played well, Luiz looks miles better as an 8. Would like to have seen Archer get more game time, but still, pleasing win that was comfortable in the end. Less said about the first half the better and on we go.
Nicely summed up. Better finishing in the 2nd half and it would have easily been 7.
Kamara would have never have got through the game without a booking.
Thought Luiz was much better, 2nd half he was looking for Coutinho more, who was much better when we actually give him the ball in some space. I do worry that Ramsey and Coutinho almost try and take up the same space in that left channel.
McGinn, awful. Headless chicken.
Mings, solid. Composed. Good performnace, considering I was worried it might be one of those tricky games where he drops a clanger.
I’d like to see Luiz & Kamara in the middle next game.
Bailey showing again he has the ability, can he do it more often?
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
Those were the days.
Heskey - the original false number nine.
We were flying before we signed him, playing 4-5-1 with Carew up top. Switched to 4-4-2 and went to shit. That's my recollection of it anyway.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
Those were the days.
Heskey - the original false number nine.
We were flying before we signed him, playing 4-5-1 with Carew up top. Switched to 4-4-2 and went to shit. That's my recollection of it anyway.
Then McLeish decided he’d make a good Roberto Baggio.
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1st half - too many long balls down the pitch which their centre half won every header
2nd half - we started to pass the ball on the ground rather than just booting it.
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Bolton's goal was lovely and left me a bit jealous, if I'm honest. I had to give it a bit of a clap. They were in control for the first 30 minutes and played really well, all credit to them.
Be nice to get a home draw next, that was a bloody trek and no chicken balti pies left once I got there! >:(
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Just got home... Roadworks on the ring road were a nightmare!
Patchy first half but in the end we could have has two or three more. Still too many unforced errors or careless surrendering of possession in midfield.
On the M56? Yeah we got caught up by those, J5 to J8 closed, but still had to get over towards Chester for the A41 - nightmare!
Enjoyed the game though, away fans were fab, 4 goals and my lad enjoyed his first away game.
Agree with the comments about McGinn, he needs a spell on the sidelines.
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We won.
What amazes me to this day is Emile Heskey somehow managed to play 110 games for us.
And 14 goals I think the caption said. For an international striker.
Those were the days.
Heskey - the original false number nine.
We were flying before we signed him, playing 4-5-1 with Carew up top. Switched to 4-4-2 and went to shit. That's my recollection of it anyway.
Yep, Gareth Barry was flying that time as kind of a number 10. Brilliant v Ajax that night. Ivanhoe came in, think he scored winner v Pompey on his first game but soon after our midfield started getting overran to accommodate his less than decisive contributions. He was dreadful for us.
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We went 3rd with a 2-0 win away at Blackburn in February. At that point, no side had been so high in the table at that stage of the season and failed to finish in the top 4.
13 and a half years ago. Where has the time gone?
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The second half performance last night suggested that they'd had the proverbial rocket up the arse at half-time and responded which in turn suggested the players are still with Gerrard, professional pride notwithstanding.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_thumb/1562172552667185154/pu/img/KBG3M0_CJecvltfm?format=jpg&name=large
A bit strange - though not reading too much into it - I would imagine he is more in a bad mood than fucked at the whole project
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Maybe they had a row in training. Still, not good. Hopefully someone has a word.
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Looked better in the second half - I think the two up top is probably the best way for now as we seem to be a bit better when we play that way
I think there is a belief and confidence issue that only comes with results - but if we can get in a new midfielder and beat West Ham and then I think the world will start to look a lot different
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The second half performance last night suggested that they'd had the proverbial rocket up the arse at half-time and responded which in turn suggested the players are still with Gerrard, professional pride notwithstanding.
Absolutely, we came out in the second half looking like a different team. Pressing higher, moving the ball quicker, being more direct. Bolton couldn't cope, understandably, given the gulf in class between the two teams. It certainly gave us some positivity heading into Sunday, which I guess was the thinking behind the team selection. I would have loved to see Tim and Cam get more minutes, but hopefully we'll get a nice draw in the next round and there will be a bit less pressure on the manager at that point.
One thing I really liked - for Cam's chance, as soon as Buendia got the ball, Cam was making the run off the defender's shoulder, and Emi knew exactly where to find him, which he did with an excellent through ball. I think those two could make a lethal combination in the near future.
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The second half performance last night suggested that they'd had the proverbial rocket up the arse at half-time and responded which in turn suggested the players are still with Gerrard, professional pride notwithstanding.
Absolutely, we came out in the second half looking like a different team. Pressing higher, moving the ball quicker, being more direct. Bolton couldn't cope, understandably, given the gulf in class between the two teams. It certainly gave us some positivity heading into Sunday, which I guess was the thinking behind the team selection. I would have loved to see Tim and Cam get more minutes, but hopefully we'll get a nice draw in the next round and there will be a bit less pressure on the manager at that point.
One thing I really liked - for Cam's chance, as soon as Buendia got the ball, Cam was making the run off the defender's shoulder, and Emi knew exactly where to find him, which he did with an excellent through ball. I think those two could make a lethal combination in the near future.
Completely agree, we haven't been playing enough through balls, even when crossing isn't working.
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Nice to see Alisha Lehmann sitting a few seats away, sure she would have been pleased with Dougs performance.
I was sat just across the walkway from her.
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The Third Round isn't until November 9th!
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I agree totally with the strong side he put out last night no fringe players even those that came on as sub are first team squad
I’ve Wanted a manager to take the cup matches seriously so now we’ve got one I’m not going to moan
I know we’ve got to finals in the past but generally winging it in the early stages and all too often we have gone out in the early rounds to poor sides
Would have preferred to have seen Archer have more of a game or a start but in general Gerard did what he said he would do when he came and that is take the cup seriously
Having said that the performance wasn’t great again was it
Good to have a 4-1win but it’s still not filling me with much confidence
I’m probably One of McGinn’s biggest fans on here and he was terrible Last night there’s no other way of looking at it, all I would say is we know he’s a far better player than that, we’ve seen it so whatever it takes to get him back again and if that means a rest then so be it
I want to give Gerard time to put a successful team together but I really would like to see some Performances to give us signs that we are heading forwards and at the moment that’s difficult to see
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Tactically we were all over the shop in the first half, I lost count of the number of times McGinn got the ball in our half, with no one within 15 yards of him and immediately looked for a long ball to Watkins. Which was inevitably overhit, misdirected, or won by the defender. Whereas Bolton were RIGHT up for it from the first whistle, and let's be honest about it, they were not without ability on the ball, either. They scored a very good goal, one we'd be purring about had we scored it.
The second half was much better, and the midfield seemed a little closer together, and we regularly looked for overloads in wide areas - though I still think we look a little disjointed at times, as if the player receiving the ball needs to look up and see what his options are, rather than "knowing" what he's going to do with it. This makes us look ponderous. We were, however, deserved winners and it could (possibly should) have been a bigger margin - but that's to be expected against a team two divisions below you.
I still worry about what a competent and combative midfield will do to our own midfield. I feel like Rice and Soucek could have a field day in our porous midfield on Sunday. I hope I'm proven wrong.
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I agree totally with the strong side he put out last night no fringe players even those that came on as sub are first team squad
I’ve Wanted a manager to take the cup matches seriously so now we’ve got one I’m not going to moan
I know we’ve got to finals in the past but generally winging it in the early stages and all too often we have gone out in the early rounds to poor sides
Would have preferred to have seen Archer have more of a game or a start but in general Gerard did what he said he would do when he came and that is take the cup seriously
Having said that the performance wasn’t great again was it
Good to have a 4-1win but it’s still not filling me with much confidence
I’m probably One of McGinn’s biggest fans on here and he was terrible Last night there’s no other way of looking at it, all I would say is we know he’s a far better player than that, we’ve seen it so whatever it takes to get him back again and if that means a rest then so be it
I want to give Gerard time to put a successful team together but I really would like to see some Performances to give us signs that we are heading forwards and at the moment that’s difficult to see
Yep, that’s a pretty fair assessment.
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We wasn't very good in the first half much better in the second I'm pleased we are in the next round.
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Bolton put up a good fight for an hour but understandably ran out of steam. Watkins is not a striker in the real sense. When put through he should have buried that chance in the first half. Archer looks like a striker, he showed that when he came on with that effort their keeper saved. Everything he did in that move was instinctive. He should be given a chance.
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That is not on the highlights. Are there extended ones anywhere because I cannot find any.
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Good save, I thought https://twitter.com/buendiazboyz/status/1562197312163790848?t=ogzUd1Vdo_CFYrlpzLTpiw&s=08
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First half even our usual consistent performers looked jaded and lacking confidence? Chambers and Bouba were all over the place. I think the team is low on confidence/motivation and they don't seem to know the system?
Watkins looked really pissed off when he got subbed?
This feels similar to the end of Deano's reign?
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Well done got through a difficult, can easily go wrong, cup tie. Little bit concerned how Chambers made a real hash of stopping their forward when they scored. Shocking phase of play all around.
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I thought their big Portugese defender (and captain) Ricardo Alexandre Almeida Santos looked half decent. He beat Watkins in an early foot race and outmuscled Bailey later on. He certainly knew how to put himself about a bit.
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Something I've been thinking about since last night. In the first half particularly, Bouba committed three or four what you might call 'silly' fouls when we lost possession in the final third. Not dangerous bookable tackles, just bumping into players from behind, enough to put them down and stop them turning or moving the ball on.
I do wonder if this is a deliberate instruction? Tactical fouls in moments of transition when we concede possession. Man City are masters as it (and regularly rotate the player doing the fouling), it's very sly, but it's a good way of preventing effective counterattacks.
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I thought their big Portugese defender (and captain) Ricardo Alexandre Almeida Santos looked half decent. He beat Watkins in an early foot race and outmuscled Bailey later on. He certainly knew how to put himself about a bit.
Had a quick look on the Trotters' forum. Seems some of their fans had previously been referring to him as a "lazy non-league defender" so may just have risen to the occasion.
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Quality prevailed in the end, a well deserved win and hopefully a confidence booster. Lots to be happy about.
Main concerns, McGinn and Watkins. McGinn too frantic, Watkins not deadly enough.
Give Archer a chance. We have better quality on the sidelines then McGinn.
Great to rub Sky's nose in it. Giant killers, my arse.
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I thought their big Portugese defender (and captain) Ricardo Alexandre Almeida Santos looked half decent. He beat Watkins in an early foot race and outmuscled Bailey later on. He certainly knew how to put himself about a bit.
Caught on his heels for the penalty
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I thought their big Portugese defender (and captain) Ricardo Alexandre Almeida Santos looked half decent. He beat Watkins in an early foot race and outmuscled Bailey later on. He certainly knew how to put himself about a bit.
Until he ran out of legs and we sliced through them at will last 20 mins. Archer, Ramsey, McGinn were at least three very good/sitter chances missed. I think Buendia had one too.
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Something I've been thinking about since last night. In the first half particularly, Bouba committed three or four what you might call 'silly' fouls when we lost possession in the final third. Not dangerous bookable tackles, just bumping into players from behind, enough to put them down and stop them turning or moving the ball on.
I do wonder if this is a deliberate instruction? Tactical fouls in moments of transition when we concede possession. Man City are masters as it (and regularly rotate the player doing the fouling), it's very sly, but it's a good way of preventing effective counterattacks.
I think it's a stupid tactic. Ref does his job and Kamara gets booked after about 30 minutes and likely first man hooked soon after. Used happen Luiz a lot when he played at 6, get a yellow early on and under pressure then. City as you say rotate the fouler and generally in the centre of the pitch too so no dangerous set piece as a result. Kamara was just blatantly fouling last night, nothing sly about it.
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Had a quick look on the Trotters' forum. Seems some of their fans had previously been referring to him as a "lazy non-league defender" so may just have risen to the occasion.
If anyone looked on Villa forums before a transfer, we'd never sell a player. Well, maybe Archer, but give it time and someone will call him a Moors reject.
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I’m probably One of McGinn’s biggest fans on here and he was terrible Last night there’s no other way of looking at it, all I would say is we know he’s a far better player than that, we’ve seen it so whatever it takes to get him back again and if that means a rest then so be it
I love John McGinn too, but should he (or any other player) really need a rest in August?
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Nice to see Alisha Lehmann sitting a few seats away, sure she would have been pleased with Dougs performance.
I was sat just across the walkway from her.
My mate reckoned she was with another player from the women’s team who goes to quite a few games?
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Was only able to follow it on BBC Football as was at work. Am just hoping that this win will be a confidence boost that will kick us on a bit.
I wonder with JMc if the captain's armband is weighing a little too heavily on him?
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Nice to see Alisha Lehmann sitting a few seats away, sure she would have been pleased with Dougs performance.
I was sat just across the walkway from her.
My mate reckoned she was with another player from the women’s team who goes to quite a few games?
I think it was Sarah Mayling.
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Something I've been thinking about since last night. In the first half particularly, Bouba committed three or four what you might call 'silly' fouls when we lost possession in the final third. Not dangerous bookable tackles, just bumping into players from behind, enough to put them down and stop them turning or moving the ball on.
I do wonder if this is a deliberate instruction? Tactical fouls in moments of transition when we concede possession. Man City are masters as it (and regularly rotate the player doing the fouling), it's very sly, but it's a good way of preventing effective counterattacks.
My thoughts exactly.
It's breaking up play and stopping goals like Zaha's from happening.
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I’m probably One of McGinn’s biggest fans on here and he was terrible Last night there’s no other way of looking at it, all I would say is we know he’s a far better player than that, we’ve seen it so whatever it takes to get him back again and if that means a rest then so be it
I love John McGinn too, but should he (or any other player) really need a rest in August?
He needs taking out of the team, not a rest
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Something I've been thinking about since last night. In the first half particularly, Bouba committed three or four what you might call 'silly' fouls when we lost possession in the final third. Not dangerous bookable tackles, just bumping into players from behind, enough to put them down and stop them turning or moving the ball on.
I do wonder if this is a deliberate instruction? Tactical fouls in moments of transition when we concede possession. Man City are masters as it (and regularly rotate the player doing the fouling), it's very sly, but it's a good way of preventing effective counterattacks.
My thoughts exactly.
It's breaking up play and stopping goals like Zaha's from happening.
Yes, top teams like Man City are masters of the tag team fouling when needed, most often when the opponents are breaking or building in their own half. When it's not in the attacking half, referees are more lenient as well. They typically do a niggly foul or mild shove, all clearly rotated, planned and practised. Fernandinho was a craftsman at that and now Rodri usually orchestrates it.
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He is just so out of form which can look he is knackered . When you are inform
it comes easier
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Watched the whole game.
Archer needs to start, he would have scored if he had been on the pitch longer than 10 minutes. Knows when to attack a defender and knows how to support another attacker, (see Bailey goal; if keeper had saved, he was in position for the rebound). Every time I've seen him play (on tele), he stands out as a natural striker.
Tim needs to play alongside Kamara, that means dropping McGinn, Luis or JJ. I'd rather have any of those 3 to come on as subs later, than to start and be so understaffed in the midfield battle area. Again, Tim looks naturally gifted, doesn't panic and has the knack of being in (mostly) the right position at the right time. Can also make a decent pass and tackle.
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Watched the whole game.
Archer needs to start, he would have scored if he had been on the pitch longer than 10 minutes. Knows when to attack a defender and knows how to support another attacker, (see Bailey goal; if keeper had saved, he was in position for the rebound). Every time I've seen him play (on tele), he stands out as a natural striker.
Tim needs to play alongside Kamara, that means dropping McGinn, Luis or JJ. I'd rather have any of those 3 to come on as subs later, than to start and be so understaffed in the midfield battle area. Again, Tim looks naturally gifted, doesn't panic and has the knack of being in (mostly) the right position at the right time. Can also make a decent pass and tackle.
Agree with all of this
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Watched the whole game.
Archer needs to start, he would have scored if he had been on the pitch longer than 10 minutes. Knows when to attack a defender and knows how to support another attacker, (see Bailey goal; if keeper had saved, he was in position for the rebound). Every time I've seen him play (on tele), he stands out as a natural striker.
Tim needs to play alongside Kamara, that means dropping McGinn, Luis or JJ. I'd rather have any of those 3 to come on as subs later, than to start and be so understaffed in the midfield battle area. Again, Tim looks naturally gifted, doesn't panic and has the knack of being in (mostly) the right position at the right time. Can also make a decent pass and tackle.
Agree with all of this
Same here.
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As do I.
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Totally agree on Archer. Haven’t seen enough of Tim yet.
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I’m probably One of McGinn’s biggest fans on here and he was terrible Last night there’s no other way of looking at it, all I would say is we know he’s a far better player than that, we’ve seen it so whatever it takes to get him back again and if that means a rest then so be it
I love John McGinn too, but should he (or any other player) really need a rest in August?
He needs taking out of the team, not a rest
I would certainly lose respect for SG if he continues to watch such inept performances from such an important position within the dynamic of our team and not take him out - Captain or not
He is quoted as saying being Captain does not guarantee a start - so go on then back it up
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Gerrard doesn't have the bollocks to start Tim or Archer.
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Gerrard doesn't have the bollocks to start Tim or Archer.
He picked a team and it worked. I don’t think having the bollocks to make a decision has anything to do with it.
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Are you always this angry? I get it in the immediate aftermath of a shit defeat like Palace, but we’re the day after a 4-1 win.
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Gerrard doesn't have the bollocks to start Tim or Archer.
He picked a team and it worked. I don’t think having the bollocks to make a decision has anything to do with it.
I don't agree it worked, Bolton ran out of steam, they're a 3rd division side. It showed the same failings as a manager from him, nothing new, therefore I expect nothing new results wise. We will stay up, because there are worse sides and we have enough talent in the squad that with some moments of quality will pull us through but I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.
Sorry If I come across as angry, I'm not particularly, I just really have taken a dislike to Gerrard now. I hope we spanner everyone 3-0 every week and win the league or at least finish top 10. Would be fantastic but I don't see it happening and I'm very down about our prospects this season now. Sorry for the pessimism. Maybe they'll all start to click Sunday, we're due a result against West Ham at home.
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I was there last night and thought that the referee had a very inconsistent approach to fouls. I thought Luiz was fouled in the build up to the Bolton goal and watching the game back enforces my view. Villa were as poor as Bolton were good in the 1st half. We appeared unable to play in what should have been a higher quality way or to put any noticeable pressure on any one part of the Bolton team. Seeing as Villa came out for the 2nd half early, I think that Gerrard must have had stern words justifiably and told them a few home truths. Our passing and movement were like night and day compared to the 1st half. That Bolton's legs went and our substitutes were obviously of a higher quality were major factors in this change. The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start. Kamara has not impressed me yet, League 1 players were quicker to the ball.
I'm still in the Gerrard In group, there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style. I don't think less than a year is the time to be thinking of sacking him. Pochettino ? Please tell me what he has won ? He had a reasonable record early in his time at Spurs, but was then sacked when they were 14th. I think the foreignness of his name gives him greater appeal than his record.
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Are you always this angry? I get it in the immediate aftermath of a shit defeat like Palace, but we’re the day after a 4-1 win.
He does have a point about Gerrard playing it safe and not being brave enough to start Cam.
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Despite my misgivings both before, and at HT I enjoyed last night. As DW mentioned in his piece it was a chance for some of us to follow Villa away, a rarity these days.
The atmosphere was good in the ground, each side appeared to have their own "Red Hang Gang" of babbies floating around outside all to eager to "get the badge in" and in a first, for me anyhow, I ate a Tesco Meal Deal in their car park, goods balanced on a Grit Bin and washed the food down with four cans of San Miguel.
It took me back to Swindon away in the Cup in '92, walking towards the ground with tins purchased from the local supermarket.
It was boiling in the ground, even in the seats but I'll not moan given the decades spent freezing my bollocks off as the team toiled. The toilets were smoke logged to the point of not being able to breathe, I smelt like a long term smoker all night! We managed to dodge the worst of the traffic although we skirted dangerously close to Kidsgrove and Stoke on the M6 diversion, but we won, are in the hat and we will continue to argue about the misgivings or otherwise of both Manager and players but I had a loff.
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Are you always this angry? I get it in the immediate aftermath of a shit defeat like Palace, but we’re the day after a 4-1 win.
He does have a point about Gerrard playing it safe and not being brave enough to start Cam.
It’s understandable though isn’t it? I’m sure we’d all like to see Cam get time, but Gerrard needed a win so he went primarily with what he felt would do that. Pressure doesn’t foster a great environment for risk taking and ultimately it worked.
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He was in a no win position last night though. Imagine how much pressure he would’ve been under if he had picked a weaker side. Plus for years we’ve been banging on about taking the cups seriously.
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A few observations from our start to the season. SG has to be strong enough to admit he has made a big mistake in appointing McGinn as captain and should drop him at the same time. Kamara, the jury is still out and last night he could have been sent off for his persistent fouling.
I saw something last night that I hope Gerrard also saw. Our best 2 strikers are Archer and Bailey. They both have pace, which we generally lack and both have good movement and an eye for goal. Would be a huge mistake to let Cam go out on loan. Doesn’t matter how old you are, if you’re good enough, you should be playing.
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He was in a no win position last night though. Imagine how much pressure he would’ve been under if he had picked a weaker side. Plus for years we’ve been banging on about taking the cups seriously.
Totally agree - not necessarily starting line (we all argue about starting personnel) but picked who he should have largely from the first team squad.
I would like to have seen Cam get a shot as he did last year albeit against a weaker side. Watkins and Ings scored so it was the right call.
I would expect Konsa and Cash to play Sunday (the former a worry) but what he does in terms of formation and picks further forward will be interesting.
If he plays 4-3-3 and we are as insipid as per Cherries and Eagles then he will righly get tomotaoed or cabbaged
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Something I've been thinking about since last night. In the first half particularly, Bouba committed three or four what you might call 'silly' fouls when we lost possession in the final third. Not dangerous bookable tackles, just bumping into players from behind, enough to put them down and stop them turning or moving the ball on.
I do wonder if this is a deliberate instruction? Tactical fouls in moments of transition when we concede possession. Man City are masters as it (and regularly rotate the player doing the fouling), it's very sly, but it's a good way of preventing effective counterattacks.
There was an interesting analysis in The Athletic a few weeks ago about fouling in the Premier League. It looked at which teams committed the most fouls overall and then adjusted it for the amount of time spent out of possession. It also looked at tactical fouls where a player is brought down to stop a dangerous break continuing.
It showed that Liverpool and Man City commit the least tactical fouls. But also found that they commit more fouls further up the pitch. Basically, it suggested that they don't commit as many tactical fouls because they foul the opposition as soon as they lose possession, rather than waiting till a break was happening. The effect is the same, but with much less risk of bookings as it looks like a normal clumsy challenge rather than a cynical tactical foul. They prevent a break and give themselves time to get back into position, but without a booking and the ball still deep in the oppositions half.
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He was in a no win position last night though. Imagine how much pressure he would’ve been under if he had picked a weaker side. Plus for years we’ve been banging on about taking the cups seriously.
That's usually the case when a team plays lower-league opposition - you either win like you should and everyone shrugs, or you get beat and you're a laughing stock. I fully understand why he picked the team that he did, and it's difficult to argue with as we won convincingly.
What I will say, though, is that in this round last year Cameron really made a name for himself, having not really done anything noteworthy up until that point (he certainly seemed below Barry, Barney, Aaron Ramsey etc in terms of expectations). You could argue that giving him a full 90 minutes has saved the club millions of pounds, and it's a shame that we weren't in a position last night to give minutes to more of our promising young players, and with it a chance to prove themselves.
Never mind. The main thing was getting a win, which we did. A bit of confidence going into Sunday won't do us any harm at all.
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Watched the whole game.
Archer needs to start, he would have scored if he had been on the pitch longer than 10 minutes. Knows when to attack a defender and knows how to support another attacker, (see Bailey goal; if keeper had saved, he was in position for the rebound). Every time I've seen him play (on tele), he stands out as a natural striker.
Tim needs to play alongside Kamara, that means dropping McGinn, Luis or JJ. I'd rather have any of those 3 to come on as subs later, than to start and be so understaffed in the midfield battle area. Again, Tim looks naturally gifted, doesn't panic and has the knack of being in (mostly) the right position at the right time. Can also make a decent pass and tackle.
Agree with all of this
Same here.
Maybe, but it's not a good place to assess these things on what we did against a third division outfit for about 20 mins.
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Players shouldn't need Gerrard to tell them how to beat Bolton, that's not demeaning Bolton either,like when Dean Smith was here players are hiding behind the manager
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... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.
And ...
The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...
In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.
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... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.
And ...
The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...
In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.
He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.
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Why would he get criticised for picking a system that suits our players better?
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Why would he get criticised for picking a system that suits our players better?
I think it would be because he had this plan in his head and he has a system bringing in players in that was supposed to make this all work. So throwing out that system would suggest he doesn't really know what hes doing. But as LeonW says he would be better just scrapping that for now and saying that he needs time to implement his initial ideas.
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I thought that was what being a manager was about. Using your resources as best as you can to get the most out of each and everyone.
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Why would he get criticised for picking a system that suits our players better?
Because he’s set his stall out with what he’s currently doing and spent half a season and pre-season trying to refine it with the current squad and new recruits. Some will use it to criticise him whereas I would take it very much as a sensible approach because what we’re doing isn’t working.
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He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.
Agree, Leon.
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Why would he get criticised for picking a system that suits our players better?
I think it would be because he had this plan in his head and he has a system bringing in players in that was supposed to make this all work. So throwing out that system would suggest he doesn't really know what hes doing. But as LeonW says he would be better just scrapping that for now and saying that he needs time to implement his initial ideas.
There’s also the leadership element to consider, but a stronger leader recognises their errors and is prepared to correct them in the face of criticism for ‘not knowing what they're doing’ because they've invested political capital and resources in something that isn’t working.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
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Why would he get criticised for picking a system that suits our players better?
Let's address this question when it happens.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
I wood hope so.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
I wood hope so.
Well at the moment Gerrard can’t see the wood for the trees, it’s obvious that the midfield needs sprucing up.
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He was in a no win position last night though. Imagine how much pressure he would’ve been under if he had picked a weaker side. Plus for years we’ve been banging on about taking the cups seriously.
Totally agree - not necessarily starting line (we all argue about starting personnel) but picked who he should have largely from the first team squad.
I would like to have seen Cam get a shot as he did last year albeit against a weaker side. Watkins and Ings scored so it was the right call.
I would expect Konsa and Cash to play Sunday (the former a worry) but what he does in terms of formation and picks further forward will be interesting.
If he plays 4-3-3 and we are as insipid as per Cherries and Eagles then he will righly get tomotaoed or cabbaged
Watkins didn’t score.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
I wood hope so.
Well at the moment Gerrard can’t see the wood for the trees, it’s obvious that the midfield needs sprucing up.
It's a hard board that doesn't give him time to fix this.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
I wood hope so.
Well at the moment Gerrard can’t see the wood for the trees, it’s obvious that the midfield needs sprucing up.
It's a hard board that doesn't give him time to fix this.
It would also be one that didn't do it's homework on a young manager who hadn't really struggled in his career yet and expect him to transition what was working for Rangers to Villa.
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... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.
And ...
The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...
In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.
He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.
I don’t think there has to be another symbolic changing of the captain that gets major publicity and lots of noise. He could take McGinn out of the team for a game, frame it as rotating the squad, playing a different system, utilising the best playing resources available for each game. Give the armband to Martinez and then if we play better and get a decent result, keep the same team. Not everything has to be a dramatic statement of intent.
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... I can't imagine there being any consistency in results and performance and general improvement. Gerrard is a cheque book manager, has made the wrong call with captaincy, pissed off our leader and generally made a pigs ear of a lot of things. He hasn't promoted youth so far, quite the opposite and his hard man attitude doesn't appear to have roused the squad.
We can either give him loads of money and he can replace everyone with players who fit his desired formation or trundle along in lower mid table because he isn't a good manager who could improve us with nous alone.
And ...
The midfield is a major concern to me, none of the permutations used this season, including last night, fill me with confidence. Without any doubt, Mc Ginn is not justifying his place except to be involved in the coin toss at the start...
... there comes a time when we have to give a manager time to have his own players and implement his overall playing style...
In 2 differently-angled posts we have a summary of where we're at: still trying to work out how to play with the resources we have. I personally think the SG project is nearing a decision time.
He'll get criticised for it, but I'd have more trust in Gerrard if he realised that the current squad profile can't play his system and change it up to maximise what we currently have. It's got to be a 4-2-3-1 and McGinn has got to be changed as captain. It's better to admit you've made a mistake and start to address it then to double down because it'll see him get the sack for sure.
I don’t think there has to be another symbolic changing of the captain that gets major publicity and lots of noise. He could take McGinn out of the team for a game, frame it as rotating the squad, playing a different system, utilising the best playing resources available for each game. Give the armband to Martinez and then if we play better and get a decent result, keep the same team. Not everything has to be a dramatic statement of intent.
What I was getting at is taking McGinn out of the team. It's whether him being captain keeps him in the team. Gerrard over hyped the captaincy issue earlier this year onwards which makes me think that for him, the captain has to play. That's a problem. It's also potentially further a problem if McGinn struggles to perform his normal role whilst being captain. That was the reason given for taking it from Mings and McGinn's game has not improved as being captain.
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Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.
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Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.
That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.
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If we ply well and start getting results and he won’t get any criticism for too long.
wood hope so.
Well at the moment Gerrard can’t see the wood for the trees, it’s obvious that the midfield needs sprucing up.
I think he needs to make a laminated one pager for every player.
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Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.
That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.
The captaincy does become an issue if McGinn continues his present poor run of form and still gets picked, suggesting that this is only because he's Gerrard's appointed captain and can't or won't be dropped. In addition, the continual playing of Ings and Watkins together, especially in away PL games, is leaving us too open in midfield. As others have said, a 4-2-3-1 formation with either Watkins or Ings upfront makes much better sense. Until we reach 1st September and are aware of any new recruits, I'll leave choosing the players to fill these positions until after then. I know we have 2 PL games before then, but I'm looking at the whole season and not the next 2 games.
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Mings man of the match for me. He stood out as a leader.
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Thought id end the quoteathon LeonW. I understand what your saying and don’t disagree with you.
I think Gerard has made lots of mistakes, but he has also taken players out of the team, Mings, Coutinhio, Ings, Watkins, Konsa, Luiz.
We can argue he has a blind spot over McGinn, but he must also realise captain or no, there is a player woefully out of form and low on confidence, that needs taken out of the firing line and ultimately his job may depend on it.
If we dont get another midfielder in, and he doesn’t want to throw Tim in the deep end, the option is then Kamara, Luiz and Ramsey, that still doesn’t fill me with huge confidence.
That's pretty much where I'm at. I don't think the captaincy thing is a big issue myself. I think it's largely a symbolic role. It just depends if Gerrard does and whether it prevents him from doing what needs to be done.
The captaincy does become an issue if McGinn continues his present poor run of form and still gets picked, suggesting that this is only because he's Gerrard's appointed captain and can't or won't be dropped. In addition, the continual playing of Ings and Watkins together, especially in away PL games, is leaving us too open in midfield. As others have said, a 4-2-3-1 formation with either Watkins or Ings upfront makes much better sense. Until we reach 1st September and are aware of any new recruits, I'll leave choosing the players to fill these positions until after then. I know we have 2 PL games before then, but I'm looking at the whole season and not the next 2 games.
Ings and Watkins havent started together in any of the two premier league away games so far. I think your right about the formation though, home and away for now. The question is, who is that second sitting midfielder? McGinns out of form and probably shouldn’t be in the team. Tim will be good but he’s probably too young and untried to start every game, which leaves the obvious candidate being Luiz, who is better linking the play a bit further forwards. Difficult and highlights the need to get another midfielder in.
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Quite remarkable that with the game at 1-1 after an hour we went on to win comfortably.
After Leon's goal, we could easily have scored another FOUR before the last whistle.