Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on May 10, 2022, 09:57:16 PM
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2-1 to the referee.
We played well. But the team selection was wrong. Buendia did more in twenty minutes than Phil all game. Thought Liverpool were bang average.
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The nearly men again.
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Even Sky think Jon Moss is a ******.
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My ratings: Nakamba 1
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Played well, some promising signs for next season.
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We were great. Referee was abysmal.
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It says it all when you feel pissed off and your season is already over.
Fuck the ref.
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Chances were there. Strikers poor especially Ings.
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Good performance, Marvellous was just that, Chuk did well when he came on as did Buendia. Mings needs to cut out the mistakes and stop trying to pass it, he was poor.
Oh and the ref….
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Not ashamed of that effort at all. I thought we were good for a point and we clearly frustrated them - credit to SG for getting it right. It's amazing to see the difference in our play once the shackles are off and we are safe. Hopefully we can build on this and play spoiler come the last match of the season.
Proud of the boys tonight - utv.
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Played really well bar a 20 min phase where they got their second. Thought we played enterprising stuff and if we can hit that level and kick on we’ll progress next year.
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My ratings: Nakamba 1
Stick to petanques
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Awesome display by Moss.
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This is what’s wrong with football coverage. BBC summary - Liverpool mentioned twice, Man City twice, Villa not at all
Liverpool had to fight hard and come back from a goal down but three points is all that matters for them. They do what they need to do.
It's over to Manchester City away at Wolves tomorrow.
Liverpool back level with City on points, but it's Pep Guardiola's side, with a game in hand, who are top via goal difference.
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
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Gave it a good go anyway. Created plenty of chances. Thought Gerrard made the wrong sub again with Chucky on first. He has shown too much faith in this guy against the best teams. Watkins best performance of season. Our centre backs were rotten individually and as a partnership. That's what cost us.
Martinez 7, Cash 8, Konsa 4, Mings 4, Digne 7, Nakamba 6 (Chucky 5), Luiz 8, McGinn 7, Coutinho 5 (Buendia 7), Ings 6, Watkins 8. Gerrard 6
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I thought we looked great, except for maybe Mings and Ings. Ref was abysmal though.
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
I’m not sure I agree. I think that’s a world away from the insipid, beaten before we’ve even started rubbish we’ve had over most of the last 10 premier league seasons.
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Very frustrating, we gave it a really good go, but that twat Mane again...
Both goals conceded were so sloppy. The second shows that we still lack that bit of streetwise we need. The game was drifting, our players switched off on our own throw in, Luiz with a really lazy pass, and our defenders simply lose the one player they absolutely shouldn't lose.
The first was clown car defending.
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If ever you needed evidence to confirm that neither Ings or Watkins are not good enough then watch the pair of them miss chances and miss control.
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Well played. Liverpool's 1st goal should never have been allowed. Awful ref..
Pleased with the fight the players gave.
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Gerrard won the last game with his selection and lost this one with his selection. Please learn
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Think we did ok, and all the players did out - probably all 6-7 out of 10. think we saw the importance of a midfielder that could help things tick over a bit more. Marv did ok winning the ball - but gave it away too often
Would be interesting to see a bit more pace in the team as an option also could do with a bit more physically in the side too
Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world - and i think there extra bit of quality helped
Didnt think we would beat both Liverpool and Man City, and would rather beat Man City so all good
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We played very well, the team looked very balanced and assured and made chances. On the ropes second half which isn’t surprising but again we still had our own chances.
Such a pity we can’t start Buendia as well as Coutinho, but I do think Gerrard got the team selection right tonight.
Unlucky to come away with no points.
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A little more composure and we’d have got something.
We’re a better team with Buendia playing.
The work rate has really improved the last few games.
John Moss? What an embarrassment
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
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If ever you needed evidence to confirm that neither Ings or Watkins are not good enough then watch the pair of them miss chances and miss control.
Watkins had a great game tonight.
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
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A good performance and put the frighteners a bit on Liverpool. But it’s in those moments where top quality makes the difference where we’re not quite there yet.
Thought Ollie was brilliant today. Luiz ditto until he was moved back to DM (he has to be an 8 from next season). McGinn was good. Coutinho had some lovely touches. Buendia always makes an impact. Both full backs very good.
Ings was not at the races at all today. Poor moments when it mattered. Mings was getting dragged out of position far too much and some of his decision making on when to attack the ball put us in trouble. Konsa needs to stop going to ground at next to nothing.
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Gerrard won the last game with his selection and lost this one with his selection. Please learn
Sorry in my opinion that’s nonsense. We created more than enough to win the game and conceded two goals that we down to mistakes. Other than that we matched a team going for the title and in the European cup final - that’s not down to poor selection.
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Thought it was a great effort from the boys. We rattled them to the core plenty of times tonight and we have to take heart from that and take that disappointment out on Palace .
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Good display, Digne was excellent tonight both going forward and in defence, Cash not far behind. Phil C needs a proper pre season, Marvellous was ok but a hard game to start after being injured for long time, Emi needs to start last three games and Ming's will be a sub next year (if he stays) with at least one new centre back brought in, just too many fuck ups that cost us.
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
I’d play them both, but I think it’s a close call either way.
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
I'd still probably start Coutinho over you though. ;)
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Digne was motm for me
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
I’m not sure I agree. I think that’s a world away from the insipid, beaten before we’ve even started rubbish we’ve had over most of the last 10 premier league seasons.
Think Deano probably meant some of our more plucky defeats, you know the ones where we match a top four team for 60/70 minutes but then lose late on because their subs are better than ours.
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No question of us being on the beach, we were right up for it. But they know how to win, it is almost mechanical and we aren't ruthless enough yet.
Luiz, Cash, Watkins and Digne were all brilliant. Most of the others weren't far behind, including the substitutes. Pleased that we gave it a go but sick of losing pluckily these twatty clubs.
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
I'd still probably start Coutinho over you though. ;)
Definitely over Legion. The ground would probably catch fire. Be
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
He has to be at the heart of the side. He links the play brilliantly.
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
I’m not sure I agree. I think that’s a world away from the insipid, beaten before we’ve even started rubbish we’ve had over most of the last 10 premier league seasons.
Think Deano probably meant some of our more plucky defeats, you know the ones where we match a top four team for 60/70 minutes but then lose late on because their subs are better than ours.
That’s exactly what I meant.
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What a cheating fucking bastard. That fat fuck should be nowhere near a football pitch again. Well played Villa.
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I still think Coutinho has more composure and is more precise. Emi is more of a ball of energy. I think they can both play.
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Gerrard won the last game with his selection and lost this one with his selection. Please learn
Sorry in my opinion that’s nonsense. We created more than enough to win the game and conceded two goals that we down to mistakes. Other than that we matched a team going for the title and in the European cup final - that’s not down to poor selection.
Have to agree with that Paul, we came away very unlucky not to get any points. We played and looked very good against a very good team. I find it hard to aim any criticism at anyone tomight.
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Redknapp had it right at half time. The game was too quick for Moss - embarrassing performance.
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Proud of the players today, could easily have won that and certainly deserved a draw.
Think some of the comments are harsh on Ings - yes he fluffed chances, but he played well to get those chances as well.
On that evidence, really looking forwards to next season. What a difference a DM makes. We look so much better with Nakamba and Chambers as a 6, imagine what we can do when we go big and buy a world class 6 in the window.
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Replay of second goal is not great viewing from Luiz perspective. Half hearted effort to clear the ball initially but Mane starts his run at least level with Luiz. By the time he scores the header he must be 10 yards ahead of him. Konsa and Mings both rotten for it too.
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I still think Coutinho has more composure and is more precise. Emi is more of a ball of energy. I think they can both play.
Play both. Don't play Ings AND Watkins.
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I think he retires at the end of this season, the bad news is he's lined up for a top spot at the PGMOL.
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Gerrard must find an effective way to get Coutinho and Buendia into the same team.
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I still think Coutinho has more composure and is more precise. Emi is more of a ball of energy. I think they can both play.
Play both. Don't play Ings AND Watkins.
Absolutely this.
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Good shout.
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I still think Coutinho has more composure and is more precise. Emi is more of a ball of energy. I think they can both play.
If we can get a player who can sit in that number six role who’s better with the ball than who we have now, hopefully next season Gerrard might take more of a risk by playing both.
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Gerrard must find an effective way to get Coutinho and Buendia into the same team.
Coutinho needs to earn his spot first and foremost. Gerrard was guilty of the old pals act tonight maybe to convince him to sign up..who knows. But Buendia looked far sharper when he came in.
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I think he retires at the end of this season, the bad news is he's lined up for a top spot at the PGMOL.
Looked like he had already retired tonight. He was very poor. It’s unusual to hear so many pros call him out as well.
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Overall we played really well and gave them a game, but another disappointing loss all the same. Two moments of terrible defending, and lots of shit moments from the front two cost us the points. I think we need better than Mings and Konsa, and also Ings and Watkins, but we've very likely to replace all 4. Watkins has a massive technical flaw in his game in that his first touch is abysmal 9 times out of 10.
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8 games in a row without a goal or assist from Coutinho, I would've started Buendia instead.
Marv was great, broke up play, tackled, interceptions, just what we've been missing. Then he brings on Chuck? Absolutely bizarre, no idea what the thinking was behind that one. There's been plenty of times to give Chuck a decent bit of game time, but today wasn't it.
What was the TV saying about Moss, the useless tub of shite?
Thought the Liverpool fans were garbage, we were sitting pretty close to them in the North and they were very quiet.
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Our own worst enemy again. Numerous chances to clear their first and a poor touch back from Chukwemeka lost us possession in midfield directly leading to their second.
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Gerrard won the last game with his selection and lost this one with his selection. Please learn
Or we lost narrowly to arguably the world’s best team and if not indisputably the second best, who could bring Henderson, Thiago and Mo Salah off the bench when we had one proven talent there in Buendia. I doubt it’s team selection, with all due respect.
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Think Konsa has struggled a bit recently. He has always failed to develop playing out on the left, preferring to pass back or pass responsibility to Mings.
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Watching the post match, you'd struggle to realise who they'd actually been playing against.
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Buendia should have started. Chambers as well.
Gerrard will reflect. He’s learning just as Smith was. Gerrard is a quicker learner though…
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
Me too
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lots to be positive about against a team challenging on 4 fronts
Their 2nd annoyed me the most, we fuck about with a throw in going forward , lose the ball, on the back foot and that fucker who always scores against us scores.
Not bothered if Phil stays or goes, great skill and little finish Thumbs up for Emi from me
think Chucky could be very good
Marvellous, exactly that in breaking up play , but poor with distribution
Onwards and upwards
Final mention for the clown in black ,does he really not like us or is he just crap
Not a single yellow issued, I think
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I think he retires at the end of this season, the bad news is he's lined up for a top spot at the PGMOL.
Looked like he had already retired tonight. He was very poor. It’s unusual to hear so many pros call him out as well.
He was truly dreadful in the first half but didn’t notice a lot wrong in the second. By pure fortune really, none of the three goals came from a Moss blunder so ultimately little harm done perhaps.
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Watkins has a massive technical flaw in his game in that his first touch is abysmal 9 times out of 10.
Exactly this, for all his running and hard work... His touch is nowhere near good enough to be a consistent threat in the top half of the table. Paper talk of a 50m bid from the kit stealers in summer... I'd snap your hand off.
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Marv won the ball well a couple of times but then gave it straight back with poor passing, one of which nearly cost a goal.The
His Achilles heel.
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We were set up really well, and got into them from the off. We have them a proper game and should have got something out of it, which I wasn't really expecting to say.
But I won't understand that first substitution as long as I live. Doug had been brilliant further forward and we had two DMs that could have come on if Marv needed a rest. Within minutes Carney and Doug get into a mix up and we're chasing the game, with Doug now hamstrung in front of the defence. It was a massive error from Gerrard, which is such a shame as he'd got us playing really well.
He'll learn from that I'm sure, but it's very frustrating because Liverpool were very vulnerable tonight.
On the whole, very promising, but very frustrating. Need to keep this momentum up.
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Marv won the ball well a couple of times but then gave it straight back with poor passing, one of which nearly cost a goal.The
His Achilles heel.
Some of his interceptions and game reading was brilliant, as you say, if only he could pass he’d almost be a Kanté / Makelele figure.
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I thought Gerrard should have switched shape sooner from the diamond setup to one to contain Trent a bit more. Klopp called that out just now. Chucky was a waste of a sub and it also moved Luiz from a position he was doing well in. For a finish he had to swap McGinn and Chucky.
Klopp also whinging about offside for our first goal. To be fair , goal like that goes against us and we would be fuming.
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https://www.skysports.com/football/a-villa-vs-liverpool/report/446608
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Or we lost narrowly to arguably the world’s best team and if not indisputably the second best, who could bring Henderson, Thiago and Mo Salah off the bench when we had one proven talent there in Buendia. I doubt it’s team selection, with all due respect.
Exactly, going toe to toe with one of the best teams and managers in the World and feeling hard done by. Klopp has been there for 6.5 years whilst just over 3 years ago we were below Blues in the Championship. It takes time and money but really feel we're moving in the right direction.
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Watkins has a massive technical flaw in his game in that his first touch is abysmal 9 times out of 10.
Exactly this, for all his running and hard work... His touch is nowhere near good enough to be a consistent threat in the top half of the table. Paper talk of a 50m bid from the kit stealers in summer... I'd snap your hand off.
Exactly and then look at Ings missed chances.
Neither good enough
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Buendia over Coutinho at the moment for me.
Me too.
And so say all of us. Pisses me off when he played so well on Saturday and is then dropped for the next game - it can’t exactly make Buendia feel he is integral to the team.
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Delighted with the performance, effort and commitment against a world class team. Digne and Luiz were both excellent. Apart from a couple of sloppy passes, Marv did very well, particularly since this was his first start for 6 months. Now need to get a minimum of 6 points to finish the season off and finish in the top half for the first time in a long time, maybe even nip a point off City, who knows.
As for Moss, thank god he's retiring, should of happened 30 years ago.
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Luiz played well until he was moved back then he was dreadful, Ings takes up great positions but his touch of a couple of years ago is no longer there, he could have been the match winner. Buendia needs to start and Coutinho needs a full pre season. In the end they had more control but i did see signs that next season we will be a better outfit.
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I think Liverpool would have managed to get more goals than us, whatever it took, unless we had nabbed a last-gasp equaliser. Like Hazza said, they mechanically grind it out when not at their free-flowing best.
And Mane's record against us is ridiculous ever since that 3 minute hat-trick he scored against us under Tactics Tim for Southampton.
We still make too many unforced errors and lose too many 50/50s against the top teams. I don't know if that's inferiority complex or brain farts from having to concentrate too much on the off the ball movement which Liverpool are so good at. Whatever the reason, conceding the winning goal within 10 second from your own throw-in on the halfway line is shoddy stuff.
Ings deserved that bit of luck when he drew the save from Alison. The ball just fell the wrong side of Chuck - like his chance to equalise against Citeh, he could have been the hero.
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We played very well at times. The chance Watkins had should have been hit instantly. Any connection it’s a goal. Ref’ was atrocious, terrible as well.
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So it does seem the general agreement that Gerrard got the selection wrong. Not many on here who would have dropped Buendia. Decision Based on a whim that Coutinho would perform against his old club.
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Expected Buendia to start.
Good first half.
Poor miss by Ings in the first half with the keeper in no-mans land.
He’s not turned out to be player I thought he was.
Carney for Nakamba and Traore for Watkins...seriously? What must our manager have been thinking?
Ref sh-te, but nothing new there.
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Is Moss ever going to retire? Or will he just hang around like Mike Dean for another 20 years?
Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Yeah we played fine without every really believing we could get something out of it so not really a game you can judge for next season tbh. Palace will be a better guide I think. Hopefully Buendia comes back as criminal he didn't start tonight.
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What a cheating fucking bastard. That fat fuck should be nowhere near a football pitch again. Well played Villa.
This.
No complaints (apart from the Emi/Phil decision). We played well. They were marginally better, but it felt like we made them work for it. That c**t of a ref, well. I hope he gets a bad dose of verrucas, the fat prick.
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If you have to lose a game, do so like that.
Excellent performance by the team full of determination, effort and grit.
The only slight on the game was a crap substitution.
Bringing Carney on changed the whole team around, with Luiz having to drop deep and McGinn moving across.
A better sub would have been a straightforward Chambers for nakamba.
Maybe then Dougie wouldn’t have been in a position to fuck up.
But, something to build on.
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I was really encouraged by that. If we get a few key players in, we do have enough about us to make a better impression next season. I would have started Buendia as it should be his shirt to lose after Burnley; but can understand Gerrard giving game time to Coutinho to help restore his fitness and perhaps his confidence too - which mere preseason fitness may not provide.
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Really enjoyed that - if we can find that level of consistency and application week in week out, promising.
My only reservation was the Buendia / Coutinho decision. I still dont understand why Buendia isn’t one of the first names on the team sheet.
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Saw most of the match but not all of it. Missed the 10-15 mins when Liverpool went 2-1 up. But from what I saw that was a decent Villa performance today. Everyone looked sharp and very keen. What’s going on with players slipping over all the time though? Saw 3 or 4 today, couple against Burnley.
That referee John Moss. What a ******. Like a grandad reffing at his grandkid’s team. Like the Man U FA cup game, it’s a lot easier when the ref’s on your side. Prick.
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The bastard offspring of Phil 'Fucking' Dowd.
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Moss, utterly fucking useless. Liverpool not impressed by him either.
Luiz should never play as a 6 again. That was a daft decision with Iroegbunam and Chambers on the bench and gifted them the 2nd. And stopped our ability to win the ball back.
Watkins is lacking confidence, and it feels like the ball just isn't running for him or Ings at the moment.
Lack of communication at the back.
Full backs our better players.
One other thing, we either seem to rush set pieces and waste them, or we take forever. There were a few minutes left and Martinez seemed like he was trying to waste time.
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
first line of this is all
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Interesting post match comments from Klopp. Said that once they started to play football it exposes the weaknesses of a diamond system. This is the worry for me he needs a plan b. And more quickly. I thought we lost the game on the Carney substitution. Luiz was having his best game in months to that point.
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Is Moss ever going to retire? Or will he just hang around like Mike Dean for another 20 years?
Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Yeah we played fine without every really believing we could get something out of it so not really a game you can judge for next season tbh. Palace will be a better guide I think. Hopefully Buendia comes back as criminal he didn't start tonight.
Moss is retiring at the end of the season.
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I'd go 4-3-2-1
Martinez
Cash. Konsa. Mings. Digne
Luiz. Nakamba. Ramsey
Buendia. Coutinho
Ings
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Interesting post match comments from Klopp. Said that once they started to play football it exposes the weaknesses of a diamond system. This is the worry for me he needs a plan b. And more quickly. I thought we lost the game on the Carney substitution. Luiz was having his best game in months to that point.
Klopp can say that, but in the last 10vmins only one side was going to score and it wasnt them.
I thought on the whole we were excellent tonight. I dislike glorious failure, i want us to win, but you absolutely have to take the opposition into account. We bring on Carney, they bring on bloody Thiago, we bring on Traore, they bring on Salah etc.
I think the whole Beundia or Coutinhio debate is misplaced. Coutinhio without dominating the game, played well with some gorgeous touches and turns and Emi likewise when he came on. We have to find a way of playing both these talents, we should be building a team around them.
And in terms of the scores earlier in the thread, scoring anyone below a 6 tonight, is being needlessly petty.
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Is Moss ever going to retire? Or will he just hang around like Mike Dean for another 20 years?
Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Yeah we played fine without every really believing we could get something out of it so not really a game you can judge for next season tbh. Palace will be a better guide I think. Hopefully Buendia comes back as criminal he didn't start tonight.
Moss is retiring at the end of the season.
And there was me thinking this hadn't been a great night.
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Where are all the young referees?
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We deserved something out of the game but a couple of sloppy moments cost us & a lack of killer instinct.
He didn’t influence the result but Moss was a disgrace. Thankfully that’s the last time we’ll ever see him.
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Replay of second goal is not great viewing from Luiz perspective. Half hearted effort to clear the ball initially but Mane starts his run at least level with Luiz. By the time he scores the header he must be 10 yards ahead of him. Konsa and Mings both rotten for it too.
Agree . Total go to sleep moment
If we can fix this !!!!
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Thought that was a good performance tonight, even if the result went against us. A couple of sloppy passes aside, thought Marv had a good game and adds an energy in there we just haven't got otherwise. Thought the intensity dropped a bit when he went off and also Douglas Luiz looked far better in a more advanced role than he did when dropped back.
Thought Buendia looked sharp when he came on and we created chances tonight, but both Ings and Watkins' touches let them down when they were in on goal.
I think it is a stretch to say Moss cost us the game, but he was terrible, particularly in the first half.
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Replay of second goal is not great viewing from Luiz perspective. Half hearted effort to clear the ball initially but Mane starts his run at least level with Luiz. By the time he scores the header he must be 10 yards ahead of him. Konsa and Mings both rotten for it too.
Agree . Total go to sleep moment
If we can fix this !!!!
It would have helped if Chuck hadn't played such a stupid short pass to Luiz. It left him totally exposed and we lost possession.
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We deserved something out of the game but a couple of sloppy moments cost us & a lack of killer instinct.
He didn’t influence the result but Moss was a disgrace. Thankfully that’s the last time we’ll ever see him.
He did influence the result, he gave them a ludicrous free kick to get their equaliser.
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Interesting post match comments from Klopp. Said that once they started to play football it exposes the weaknesses of a diamond system.
Klopp should shut his mouth full of teeth and worry instead about where he plays Moss who was their MOTM.
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Thought we did well overall.
Marv was solid & showed the importance of having a proper #6. Dougie played his best 60 mins in a long time. Having him as one of the #8 options will make us stronger next season.
Disappointed with Ings. For $25M he’s been a flop. This Summer we might get our money back.
Carney still only 18, I hope he stays.
UTV
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We played well.
The ref was abysmal.
Klopp is a fraud.
But that goal was class.
We had no answer I'm afraid.
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We deserved something out of the game but a couple of sloppy moments cost us & a lack of killer instinct.
He didn’t influence the result but Moss was a disgrace. Thankfully that’s the last time we’ll ever see him.
These are my thoughts too.
Before the match started, I said to the chap next to me that I’d never seen Moss have a good game and so it went on to the last time I will have to suffer him.
We played well, but messy defending cost us rather than any outstanding play from Liverpool.
Our throw in leads to two bad touches and no closing down on the cross and nobody picking up Mane.
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Replay of second goal is not great viewing from Luiz perspective. Half hearted effort to clear the ball initially but Mane starts his run at least level with Luiz. By the time he scores the header he must be 10 yards ahead of him. Konsa and Mings both rotten for it too.
Agree . Total go to sleep moment
If we can fix this !!!!
It would have helped if Chuck hadn't played such a stupid short pass to Luiz. It left him totally exposed and we lost possession.
Luiz should do better to protect the ball anyway, admittedly from a poor pass. A McGinn style bum roll would have drawn the foul. But after that he simply has to track Mane's run a lot better, even if that means rugby tackling him to the ground. Watch it back, half hearted doesn't even cover it. It's a shocking goal to concede at this level with a number of players at fault.
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Pundits said the game was too quick for referee Moss. He was fucking useless, and we suffered due to his incompetence.
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We played well.
The ref was abysmal.
Klopp is a fraud.
But that goal was class.
We had no answer I'm afraid.
Nah, Ings was clean through just after they scored their second, but his touch let him down and he didn't even get a shot in. 2-2 there and it might have been a lot different.
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Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Which decision was that? I don’t remember us doing anything even remotely positive in that game.
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Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Which decision was that? I don’t remember us doing anything even remotely positive in that game.
There was, he's right, and I'd forgotten it was that twat. It was at 4-0 I think and wouldn't have mattered but was blatant as fuck, and he wouldn't even give us that.
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We played well.
The ref was abysmal.
Klopp is a fraud.
But that goal was class.
We had no answer I'm afraid.
Why is Klopp a fraud?
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Thought we were very good, but not quite good enough. Some great play in the final third and enough chances to win three games but when we dont take them, you are always going to be up against it.
Thought Dug looked much better playing further up the field, Nakamba looked like he has always done, magnificent trying to get the ball back and and a liability when he does.
Full backs great, centre half’s not so much. Phil great, such a talent. Front two, full of industry, lacking in quality when it really counted.
A game Liverpool will feel they won as soon as they needed to without a lot of top players.
Promising but disappointing.
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Oh yeah, and the ref. Fuck me, where do they get these ****** from? As poor as I have ever seen. Corrupt.
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The sort of game we've probably all seen a million times . Decent performance but ultimately not good enough against a superior team who weren't great but still did just enough. Thought Nakamba did really well. Terrible gift of an equaliser for 1-1 and the ref was dire. But take six points from next two at home and I'll be happy. Can't fault the effort.
first line of this is all
Yep, completely fed up with the plucky loser tag which some think is a sign of progress, it isn’t.
It’s a sign of accepting mediocrity and I hope that the owners and the manager are at last going to set higher standards than this.
We have a problem in central defence, central midfield and centre forward.
If we are genuine in our aspirations we have to address these most fundamental deficiencies in our first team.
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We went toe to toe with one of the best sides in the world and should have got a draw out of it.
We created enough big chances and just didn't take them. Second half they had a few threatening moments, but only 1 genuine chance and took it. The difference.
Good to see Marv back, enjoyed our shape and structure with him in there.
Our full backs are excellent, centre halves distribution is either slow or wayward. Often its both, which is a problem.
Very high energy, good pressing, showed them no respect and I think the level of gamesmanship they engaged in at the end spoke volumes of their thoughts on the game.
There was a spell in the 2nd half when we didn't look after it well, but Luiz ought to have been hooked if Chuck was coming on too, as he can't play at 6. Understand why Marv could last the pace. Hopefully the trust in him will make the bugger sign a contract.
A lot to be positive about.
A final word for possibly the most corrupt referee I've ever seen tonight.
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if Nakamba could pass the ball he’d be the greatest midfielder in the world
1st half was the worst refereeing I can remember seeing at VP, It wasn’t one single decision it was constant bias to one side, It was literally at the levels of ‘there’s something going on here’ if you were into conspiracy theories you’d be all over it it was that dodgy
I thought Coutinho was brilliant in the first half and I’m surprised to see some comments on here saying they weren’t that impressed
Klopp is a massive hypocrite, All that shite about how Tottenham don’t play the game properly yet his lot in the last 10 minutes was like watching Wimbledon at their worst fucking about faining injury and wasting time, absolute wankers the lot of them
Not too disappointed about the performance but fuck me didn’t you just know they were going to get over the line from the moment they scored
bloody trains at NS delayed again absolute ball bag of a trip home
Top half finish still on for me utv
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if Nakamba could pass the ball he’d be the greatest midfielder in the world
1st half was the worst refereeing I can remember seeing at VP, It wasn’t one single decision it was constant bias to one side, It was literally at the levels of ‘there’s something going on here’ if you were into conspiracy theories you’d be all over it it was that dodgy.
All of this.
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Despise Liverpool, their manager, stadium, all players past and present, and every single fan across the world.
Incredible refereeing performance from Moss. Just incredible
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Just back home. Enjoyed the Villa performance and the game as a whole. We deserved a draw. Needed to take those big chances. The ref was pathetic.
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Good performance.
Ings could have had a hat trick.
If Buendia started we might have got something - obvious stuff again SG! But he can’t see it.
But ultimately under SG we only beat shite teams.
And the ref was a red it was ridiculous.
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We played some really good stuff, it all went pear-shaped when Luiz moved from 8 to 6. Bringing on Chuck was mystifying to me, Marv was tiring so needed a sub but should have been Tim or Chambers to maintain our momentum.
Once again it was unforced errors that cost us. Cut those out and we will be a match for anyone.
Jon Moss was excruciatingly bad. I assume he must have (allegedly) received a brown envelope with a Liverpool postmark earlier in the week, so awful and one-sided were his calls.
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Is Moss ever going to retire? Or will he just hang around like Mike Dean for another 20 years?
Disliked him since he didn't give that blatant penalty in the cup final which was 7 years ago now and he's certainly a ref that sides with the top teams on marginal decisions.
Yeah we played fine without every really believing we could get something out of it so not really a game you can judge for next season tbh. Palace will be a better guide I think. Hopefully Buendia comes back as criminal he didn't start tonight.
Moss is retiring at the end of the season.
****** looked like he’d retired already to me. Easy one that: ‘we’ve baked him a big cake and he’s retiring at the end of the season 🍺🍺👠👠🍆🍆🍷🍷🥂🥂🥃🥃🥃
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Promising overall - think we might just be onto something
Hopefully a better preseason and some good signings and we could be on our way
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Where are all the young referees?
Go to any Saturday/Sunday parks football at any level to get the answer to that one
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Did well in the 1st half apart from the key stone cops defending - 2nd half we struggled to get out of our half
Shame that we could not have got a draw from the game
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Joke Moss IS retiring at the season BUT only to be a permanent member of the VAR team along with Martin Atkinson so we will still be exposed to him.
For me it was that phase in the first half where he constantly allowed debatable challenges for them but penalising the se for us. That served to break our momentum amd after the break it was always going to be difficult. His performance has to be bad though when it's not just Villa fans but Sky, the BBC amd most news outlets commenting on it.
Some reasons to be optimistic but the bare facts are that our centre backs and goalscorers are not good enough. I don't mind keeping Watkins in the squad because he does unsettle defenders but Ings needs to go and Mings and Konsa need to also drop down. Konsa maybe is still saveable but he definitely well below par at present
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Interesting post match comments from Klopp. Said that once they started to play football it exposes the weaknesses of a diamond system.
Klopp should shut his mouth full of teeth and worry instead about where he plays Moss who was their MOTM.
Most people have a mouth full of teeth, to be fair.
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We played well.
The ref was abysmal.
Klopp is a fraud.
But that goal was class.
We had no answer I'm afraid.
Why is Klopp a fraud?
He isn’t. Klopp is a fraud = the poster is pissed off😀
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We played well.
The ref was abysmal.
Klopp is a fraud.
But that goal was class.
We had no answer I'm afraid.
Why is Klopp a fraud?
He isn’t. Klopp is a fraud = the poster is pissed off😀
It stems from us playing the kids in the Cup that time. I used to think he was OK but on that particular occasion he was ungracious and the mask slipped. It's happened a few times since.
And yes, I was pissed off
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I was very impressed with our energy and that we were still 'all guns blazing at the end'. A useful game for showing our weaknesses, but also for demonstrating what we're capable of. I'm certainly not as fussed if Coutinho stays or goes now.
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I thought maybe it should have been Chambers for Marv. That would have allowed Dougie to stay in the advanced role. He’d been having a great game until then.
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Did well in the 1st half apart from the key stone cops defending - 2nd half we struggled to get out of our half
Shame that we could not have got a draw from the game
Struggled to get out of our half in the second? What game was you watching?
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Apart from the Ings chance when he was ruled offside but missed anyway, the time Coutinho got through then fell over, another time Ings got through and missed, the time Cash hit the side netting, the time Ings scored but was offside again, the time Alisson parried it and it missed an easy rebound for Chucky by inches, another Ings miss, when Watkins got through and struggled to get the ball from under his feet, and another seventeen Ings chances, we struggled to get the ball in their half in the second half.
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I'd like us to try Coutinho AND Buendia again, leave Ings out. They aren't actually all that similar
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Frustrating game - so near and yet ultimately not good enough to beat a jaded top team at home.
It was good to see Nakamba back - to remind us that he’s not the answer to the central midfield issue. Another player who got better in many eye the less he played.
Ings missed too many chances.
If we’re looking to win these types of matches and, say, target 6-8th next year, then these 2 need upgrading, along with Luiz and Coutinho.
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if Nakamba could pass the ball he’d be the greatest midfielder in the world
1st half was the worst refereeing I can remember seeing at VP, It wasn’t one single decision it was constant bias to one side, It was literally at the levels of ‘there’s something going on here’ if you were into conspiracy theories you’d be all over it it was that dodgy
I thought Coutinho was brilliant in the first half and I’m surprised to see some comments on here saying they weren’t that impressed
Klopp is a massive hypocrite, All that shite about how Tottenham don’t play the game properly yet his lot in the last 10 minutes was like watching Wimbledon at their worst fucking about faining injury and wasting time, absolute wankers the lot of them
Not too disappointed about the performance but fuck me didn’t you just know they were going to get over the line from the moment they scored
bloody trains at NS delayed again absolute ball bag of a trip home
Top half finish still on for me utv
Well said John, agree with this analysis
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Gently encouraged by last night. It’s interesting that in the games against the best teams that all the good and bad of your players and Manager are exposed to the best level. I don’t think we learnt that much to be honest, we know Cash and Digne are good full backs, Emi M needs to work a bit on his distribution, Konsa lacks the ability to play out from the back, Mings has the odd mistake/brain fart in him, Marvellous is useless with the ball at his feet, Doug is an 8 not a 6, McGinn is better further forward, Phillipe and Emi can be mercurial, Ings is a yard off in the biggest games both in pace and thought and Ollie needs to work on his touch and finishing. And everyone needs to wear longer studs. The Manager got it broadly right in terms of his selection but maybe didn’t have the embarrassment of riches currently afforded to Klopp to make effective substitutions.
However despite all the deficiencies when we play and compete, this is a team heading in the right direction. To improve it, better defensive distribution(Konsa the weak link for me)more midfield athleticism and physicality (1 x DCM and a more athletic version of Doug/SJM) and more composure and creativity in the strikers (Ings not really what we need ). Some of these three things are minor changes but some particularly the midfield are major changes.
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Gently encouraged by last night. It’s interesting that in the games against the best teams that all the good and bad of your players and Manager are exposed to the best level. I don’t think we learnt that much to be honest, we know Cash and Digne are good full backs, Emi M needs to work a bit on his distribution, Konsa lacks the ability to play out from the back, Mings has the odd mistake/brain fart in him, Marvellous is useless with the ball at his feet, Doug is an 8 not a 6, McGinn is better further forward, Phillipe and Emi can be mercurial, Ings is a yard off in the biggest games both in pace and thought and Ollie needs to work on his touch and finishing. And everyone needs to wear longer studs. The Manager got it broadly right in terms of his selection but maybe didn’t have the embarrassment of riches currently afforded to Klopp to make effective substitutions.
However despite all the deficiencies when we play and compete, this is a team heading in the right direction. To improve it, better defensive distribution(Konsa the weak link for me)more midfield athleticism and physicality (1 x DCM and a more athletic version of Doug/SJM) and more composure and creativity in the strikers (Ings not really what we need ). Some of these three things are minor changes but some particularly the midfield are major changes.
Yes, I'd agree with this, and I'd add that I don't think we're yet seeing the individual and collective improvement that we'd expect (especially given the accolades that the coaching staff got when they all came into Villa). Our ball retention is terrible (from the hack out from the back to Ollie's attempts to trap a bag of cement): hopefully, the pre-season will deal with some of this, along with the right acquisitions.
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We played well I thought and Klopp couldn't have complained had we got a point, even though he would have. I thought we had them rattled in those first few minutes, the noise was tremendous then the ref decided to get involved. I think he should be advised to retire a few games early.
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Where are all the young referees?
Go to any Saturday/Sunday parks football at any level to get the answer to that one
Precisely. A ref at my son’s team’s match this season (U17s) got his car keyed after the game by an angry parent unhappy with the call to give a corner not a goal kick. He won’t be reffing again.
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Where are all the young referees?
Go to any Saturday/Sunday parks football at any level to get the answer to that one
Spot on.
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Gently encouraged by last night. It’s interesting that in the games against the best teams that all the good and bad of your players and Manager are exposed to the best level. I don’t think we learnt that much to be honest, we know Cash and Digne are good full backs, Emi M needs to work a bit on his distribution, Konsa lacks the ability to play out from the back, Mings has the odd mistake/brain fart in him, Marvellous is useless with the ball at his feet, Doug is an 8 not a 6, McGinn is better further forward, Phillipe and Emi can be mercurial, Ings is a yard off in the biggest games both in pace and thought and Ollie needs to work on his touch and finishing. And everyone needs to wear longer studs. The Manager got it broadly right in terms of his selection but maybe didn’t have the embarrassment of riches currently afforded to Klopp to make effective substitutions.
However despite all the deficiencies when we play and compete, this is a team heading in the right direction. To improve it, better defensive distribution(Konsa the weak link for me)more midfield athleticism and physicality (1 x DCM and a more athletic version of Doug/SJM) and more composure and creativity in the strikers (Ings not really what we need ). Some of these three things are minor changes but some particularly the midfield are major changes.
I agree with all of this
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Where are all the young referees?
Go to any Saturday/Sunday parks football at any level to get the answer to that one
Precisely. A ref at my son’s team’s match this season (U17s) got his car keyed after the game by an angry parent unhappy with the call to give a corner not a goal kick. He won’t be reffing again.
I hate to criticise the officials for precisely this reason, my Godson is a ref and has taken plenty of stick from "adults" when they should know better.
But performances of the kind we saw last night only makes things worse, to have 40 odd thousand howling at the ref isn't a great recruiting tool even if he thoroughly deserved it. I didn't think he was as bad second half and I'm convinced one of the other officials had a word with him.
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Enjoyed last night. Yes, we lost... but at least we lost 'competing'. We kept them hanging on right until the final whistle. Crowd was a step up from recent months too.
The litmus test will be taking that performance into the Palace and Burnley games and WINNING!
The one thing which annoyed me last night were the abundance of 'half and half' scarves I saw in Trinity Road. Who the fuck buys these things - Fans wearing them should be refused entry imo. 😉
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Still baffled by a strange substitution at a crucial stage in the game on 60 minutes. Bringing Carney on for Nakamba affected 2 positions within our team and weakened us, which redscouse going for the pl title took full advantage of. In the end they didn’t need a dodgy ref to get them over the line.
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Thoroughly enjoyed the game, thought we went toe to toe with them and gave them some uncomfortable moments.
Not sure Gerrard learnt a lot from it, he knows we have some good players and he also knows our weak area are centre backs in particular distribution when you want to build from the back and defensive midfield. Address those areas in the summer and we have to be looking towards European qualification and Cup runs next season.
Moss…what an utter clown performance - if you look at their forums they genuinely think he was on our side :-) - he might be a very good VAR watching the tv rather than running around but he should have had his whistle removed years ago.
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I'd just like to take time out from my game of "pétanque" to point out that my rating for Nakamaba was a spoof rating. I accept that my not noticing him in the first half is due to me not being observant and not having my eye on the screen for 100% of the time.
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Oh and on Jon Moss. He’s not corrupt I personally don’t believe any of them are he’s just utterly incompetent. His assistant on the Trinity side got at least 3 thrown ins and 2 offsides wrong as well. Think some one had a word at half time as it was slightly better in the second half but it couldn’t have been any worse than his clown car performance in the first half. He’s quite patently not fit enough to keep up with play, I watched him at one point in the second half when Liverpool were breaking at pace and he was in my field of view and quite frankly it was embarrassing watching a fat old man who looked like he’s won a competition struggling to keep pace with Thiago who was virtually walking.
PGMOL is not fit for purpose.
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Still baffled by a strange substitution at a crucial stage in the game on 60 minutes. Bringing Carney on for Nakamba affected 2 positions within our team and weakened us, which redscouse going for the pl title took full advantage of. In the end they didn’t need a dodgy ref to get them over the line.
However we were a much better attacking force after that and should have at least got a point based on last 20 minutes.
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Enjoyed last night. Yes, we lost... but at least we lost 'competing'. We kept them hanging on right until the final whistle. Crowd was a step up from recent months too.
The litmus test will be taking that performance into the Palace and Burnley games and WINNING!
The one thing which annoyed me last night were the abundance of 'half and half' scarves I saw in Trinity Road. Who the fuck buys these things - Fans wearing them should be refused entry imo. 😉
Agree with your performance comment.
As for half and half scarfs I noticed that most of the hawkers had a scouse accent so it must be a thing up there on match days.
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I'd just like to take time out from my game of "pétanque" to point out that my rating for Nakamaba was a spoof rating. I accept that my not noticing him in the first half is due to me not being observant and not having my eye on the screen for 100% of the time.
I think the forum appreciates your remarkably candid admission. A game of Petanque is an absolute fabled legend and requires enormous physical strength and highest level of mental agility just to watch. However I am confused as to whether you were not being observant or not having your eye on the screen 100%?
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Someone ought to look into the ref's betting history. Some of the worst officiating I've ever witnessed.
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I think he should be advised to retire a few games early.
The evidence shows he fucking did.
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It's been a while since I read a post match thread where the opinions differed so wildly, from we played well, to it was nowhere good enough, from Nakamba did really well, to he was garbage, to Coutinho did nothing, to he was great in parts and worked hard.
Personally, I quite enjoyed the game last night (as much as you can when losing, anyway). Considering we've lost to them by the odd goal twice this season, the difference between the two performances couldn't be starker. For large chunks of last night we went toe-to-toe and held our own against one of the best sides in the world, perennial league challengers and Champions League hopefuls. We had good chances to score more (as did they), but a draw would not have been an unfair result.
I thought Nakamba did great in the first half - yes, his distribution is below average, but we know this already, it's nothing new. I thought our work rate was also excellent, I lost count of the times we won the ball back with our pressing. I've had Liverpool supporting mates message me to say we better work that hard against City, such was the noticeable level of effort we put in. This also bodes well for Gerrard's ability to motivate the team. Luiz did enough last night as an 8 to convince me he needs to be kept in the squad in that position, and Nakamba fights with Tim to become the second choice DM to whoever we bring in.
On last night's showing, I genuinely think we're a centre-half, DM and clinical centre-forward away from being a very good side indeed.
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The former Liverpool captain was then informed that Moss is retiring at the end of the season.
He replied: "Is he? Good."
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Pundits said the game was too quick for referee Moss. He was fucking useless, and we suffered due to his incompetence.
This was a game involving one of the two teams fighting for the Premier League title. A packed night game at Villa Park with a fiery atmosphere to match was a given. They could have chosen any of the elite referee's to take charge. So why on earth did they choose him?
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Pundits said the game was too quick for referee Moss. He was fucking useless, and we suffered due to his incompetence.
This was a game involving one of the two teams fighting for the Premier League title. A packed night game at Villa Park with a fiery atmosphere to match was a given. They could have chosen any of the elite referee's to take charge. So why on earth did they choose him?
To ensure that we got nothing from the game....
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He won't be going away. He'll haunt us from his VAR bunker for years to come.
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I don't think any ref goes out to disadvantage any side but it was clear half way through the first half he was well out of his depth, some of his decisions were head scratching.
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I suppose a pretty clear and recent comparison is Spurs (with Son and Kane) got a point after giving this team a good game.
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He won't be going away. He'll haunt us from his VAR bunker for years to come.
But at least he won’t have to run from there!
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I managed to salvage some retribution this morning as my dog, Marley pissed up the front gate of Manes` house (who lives next to Klopp). :)
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I didn't think anyone played particularly well or particularly badly, but as a team we looked solid and cohesive. That's in contrast to what you normally get with the Villa, normally we see good individual performances but precisely that, individual. We could have got something from the game and well done to Gerrard despite the narrow loss. That ref is indeed a big fat fool and his retirement is well overdue.
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"The referee's a Scouser!"
Couldn't fault the team's collective effort, though. Hope we carry on in that vein against Palace, and not put in a Villaesque anticlimactic performance.
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It's been a while since I read a post match thread where the opinions differed so wildly, from we played well, to it was nowhere good enough, from Nakamba did really well, to he was garbage, to Coutinho did nothing, to he was great in parts and worked hard.
Personally, I quite enjoyed the game last night (as much as you can when losing, anyway). Considering we've lost to them by the odd goal twice this season, the difference between the two performances couldn't be starker. For large chunks of last night we went toe-to-toe and held our own against one of the best sides in the world, perennial league challengers and Champions League hopefuls. We had good chances to score more (as did they), but a draw would not have been an unfair result.
I thought Nakamba did great in the first half - yes, his distribution is below average, but we know this already, it's nothing new. I thought our work rate was also excellent, I lost count of the times we won the ball back with our pressing. I've had Liverpool supporting mates message me to say we better work that hard against City, such was the noticeable level of effort we put in. This also bodes well for Gerrard's ability to motivate the team. Luiz did enough last night as an 8 to convince me he needs to be kept in the squad in that position, and Nakamba fights with Tim to become the second choice DM to whoever we bring in.
On last night's showing, I genuinely think we're a centre-half, DM and clinical centre-forward away from being a very good side indeed.
I'd say that this is a fair assessment of the game and where we are more generally.
In terms of the differences of opinion I guess some of it comes from the fact that every fan has favourites and also players that we don't really rate and this colours our reactions.
I'm a big fan of Nakamba and I was pleased with his inclusion. I thought that he did the things he is good at really well. Gerard evidently wanted to get about Liverpool and not give them time on the ball and Nakamba continually disrupted them and stopped them from getting into a rhythm.
However... his passing leaves your nerves in shreds at times. One careless pass in the first half could easily have led directly to a goal for them.
So both views can be true depending on your personal tastes.
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The former Liverpool captain was then informed that Moss is retiring at the end of the season.
He replied: "Is he? Good."
Good reply but is he now in disrepute territory?
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One positive for Pool fans I thought their Coutinho chant when he was subbed was brilliant.
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We put in a good shift, worked really hard. But still 5% below the Liverpool's players effort.
This is one of the gaps we have to bridge if we have top six aspirations.
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We put in a good shift, worked really hard. But still 5% below the Liverpool's players effort.
This is one of the gaps we have to bridge if we have top six aspirations.
I didn't see any lack of effort, their players are just (mostly) better than ours.
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We put in a good shift, worked really hard. But still 5% below the Liverpool's players effort.
This is one of the gaps we have to bridge if we have top six aspirations.
I didn't see any lack of effort, their players are just (mostly) better than ours.
I thought we looked a bit gassed in the second half, not for the first time this season. My mate said we're not fit enough, and I'd tend to agree on the whole, Matty Cash aside.
Not lack of effort though.
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We put in a good shift, worked really hard. But still 5% below the Liverpool's players effort.
This is one of the gaps we have to bridge if we have top six aspirations.
I didn't see any lack of effort, their players are just (mostly) better than ours.
Yep. And they brought on Mo Salah, Thiago, Henderson to be able to beat us. That’s around £200m of talent and they still could have brought on Firmino or Origi or Konate. We don’t have many players of that level starting let alone on the bench. We gave it everything yesterday and really succumbed to defensive errors more than them really outplaying us. And we certainly could have got something from the game late on which we would have deserved.
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We played well last night I'm proud of the lads they put a shift in.
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No lack of effort but we are 3 players away from an X1 that could win that type of game.
More composure in central defense, better ball retention and cover in midfield and a striker that can take chances.
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One thing that really stood out to be the difference between the two sides is how many players they have spare in or around the box when they attack. They work really hard for the the entire game.
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I don't think any ref goes out to disadvantage any side but it was clear half way through the first half he was well out of his depth, some of his decisions were head scratching.
He kept missing obvious fouls. Failing to book Fabinho was another bizarre one. Redknapp called it right at half time, the pace of the game was too much for him. Second half I didn't notice him as much which was a good thing.
However, our goal should have been called offside too. Ignore the nonsense the refs have coughed up about first phase/second phase interpretation. There isn't a second phase if the first phase is blown up for offside. Didn't we get done before on this at Man City or somewhere? Boro definitely got a similar call in their favour when they beat Man United in the cup.
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Their press is frightening. They must spend hours practicing that every week, drilled into them until it's almost a reflex reaction.
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One thing that really stood out to be the difference between the two sides is how many players they have spare in or around the box when they attack. They work really hard for the the entire game.
Yes you can't underestimate how hard the players at top sides work and how fit they are.
Liverpool will have played 63 games this season in comparison to just the 41 we will have played. That's a huge difference in terms of playing time and travelling. Yes, they have better players and a bigger squad, but the core of their side will still have played way more matches than our players.
Whilst skill and ability are another matter, fitness is an obvious benefit. Ideally, we should be matching the really good teams in this respect, even if we may have to work harder and run more in the few games we encounter such teams.
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The big, big difference between us and them wasn't around effort or belief, it was that they keep the ball so much better than we do.
I found myself repeatedly looking at some of their passing - and it was very often 'simple' stuff, not 40 yard diagonal balls to feet - and thinking we are incapable of doing that.
I know I am talking about a really top side in Liverpool, but I find myself thinking the same against much more modest opposition - if we could keep the ball way better, we'd spend much less time chasing it all over the pitch.
The other things they, and other good sides, do is create space and use it - as per above, if they're in possession their players do a way better job than ours do in creating space to receive the ball.
Mind you, that's been my one annoyance with us for the best part of 30 years now. We don't use or create space, we're just so static.
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Completely agree our lack of ball retention is woefull at times even when the player in possession is not under pressure.
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Yeah, no one on here is mentioning the offside in the lead-up to our goal. If it had been the other way round, we'd be spitting feathers. Maybe Moss was trying to even-up for that the rest of the first half.
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I really am quite annoyed for several reasons regarding the liverpool equaliser.
I think the first is that prior to the goal, Digne the defender, plays the ball when he tackles, but the opposing Liverpool player goes down as part of the follow on.
To me it was a good tackle and was not and indirect free kick.
BUT
subsequently two issues in the penalty box ensued.
One the attacking Liverpool player had a raised boot to play the ball close to an opponent.
If I read the laws correctly it states - If there's no contact but he is playing in a dangerous manner/endangering the safety of his opponent then an IDFK is to be awarded. His foot was high and studs were shown but he played the ball. However, his momentum, Like Digne continued and he felled Konsa who was no longer able to defend the situation. so if Digne was penalised why was'nt the liverpool player for either offense?
But there were so many other poor decisions but all the press pick up on was that Ollie was offside in 1st phase of play for our goal.. which i also disagree with, they forget offside occurs when the ball has been hit.. not during its flight.
Quite disappointed that we didn't deal with the ball better in our box but I am convinced it was scored following a reasonable call for foul play.
Overall - a great and entertaining performance and if we took one of the three manufactured opportinities the draw would have justified the performace.
UTV
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For the neutral (My mate an Evertonian) said it was a cracking game with a brilliant atmosphere - hard to argue although as a fan i would of preferred a drab game but with a 1-0 win for us.
Thought our game plan and press for the first half was outstanding
Nakamba was excellent and shows exactly what we have missed - his position allowed Luiz to have his best game for us for ages as well as McGinn.
Great effort and a little more composure and we should of got a decent draw out of that - and Bingo could not of complained (although he would)
Now i hope we wipe that smug, cuntish smirk off Saha's face on Sunday
I would play Coutinhio & Bendiua behind a single striker and smash them
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Oh and that abomination of a ref >:( >:( >:( >:(
I said in the match thread i have never seen him be anything esle but shit to the point where his actual credibility should be questioned.
He is so unfit he hardly ever leaves the centre of the pitch and on quick breaks he is so far from the action that he guesses decisions.
No loss to the game at all
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This is the same Jon Moss that let man citys massive offside goal stand against us last season. The officiating last night was up there with the worst ive seen
Proud of the performance, thought we played well. Ings x2 chances were massive and he should have scored, its these margins in these games we cant afford to pass up
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The big, big difference between us and them wasn't around effort or belief, it was that they keep the ball so much better than we do.
I found myself repeatedly looking at some of their passing - and it was very often 'simple' stuff, not 40 yard diagonal balls to feet - and thinking we are incapable of doing that.
I know I am talking about a really top side in Liverpool, but I find myself thinking the same against much more modest opposition - if we could keep the ball way better, we'd spend much less time chasing it all over the pitch.
The other things they, and other good sides, do is create space and use it - as per above, if they're in possession their players do a way better job than ours do in creating space to receive the ball.
Mind you, that's been my one annoyance with us for the best part of 30 years now. We don't use or create space, we're just so static.
Where I think they are a cut above everyone, including Man City is how quickly they move the ball in the opposition's final third. That simple but very quick one or two touch passing creates the space that opens sides up. They pull defences out of shape so well - obviously having three world class forwards at any one time helps but I was impressed at how well we defended overall.
Mane's was a great goal, with Diaz finding that space out wide. Their only other big chance was Keita's miskick in the first half I think.
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Thought we did ok against one of ,if not the best team in Europe at the minute. Cash and Digne played very well, as did Marvellous. Watkins and Ings work so hard for the rest of the team and i just hope Van Dick hasn't injured Watkins too badly when he clearly raked his studs down the back of his leg. On Watkins, he gave their back line a really hard time. He seems to be working with Ings now. Bertie was a waste of space, almost falling over Ings when Chucky missed the one late on.
I was surprised to see Gerrard move things around so late in the game. Luiz seems to be a player who can play one role in a game but not two or three. Asking him to move to DM was a mistake that cost us the goal. I would have thought Chambers was the natural replacement for Marvellous rather than the switch of Luiz to DM.
We have a solid base to move on from.
It has been said before, and no doubt will be again. Jon Moss. C**T
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The first thing our players should do is wear some boots so they don’t keep slipping over. Happens every week and they stil can’t get it right. Their first goal was down to Mings slipping when he could have cleared the ball quite easily.
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Re. Jon Moss, what bothers me most is there is never any real consequence to biased and/or poor officiating. It is excused (by PGMOL) and swept under the rug with the offender taken out of the firing line for a game or two until the media cycle moves on.
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The first thing our players should do is wear some boots so they don’t keep slipping over. Happens every week and they stil can’t get it right. Their first goal was down to Mings slipping when he could have cleared the ball quite easily.
Happend to our manager infamously as well when most mattered when he played.
Gerrard slipped over.
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Yeah, no one on here is mentioning the offside in the lead-up to our goal. If it had been the other way round, we'd be spitting feathers. Maybe Moss was trying to even-up for that the rest of the first half.
Not having that eamonn. Every goal is VAR checked and if there was an offside issue in the build up VAR would have told Moss and disallowed the goal. Moss did not need to "even up" anything. He's just an incompetent ******. We have had some useless officials at VP this season but he's the first one who we called out (abused rather :) ) throughout the game and got loudly booed at HT exit and entry and full time.
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Reminder that Jon Moss failed to spot this penalty...
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1786178-jan-vertonghen-pulls-down-nicklas-helenius-shorts-during-villa-vs-tottenham
But did award one here...
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12025392/fernandes-penalty-shouldnt-have-stood
He isn't just useless, he's corrupt.
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I really am quite annoyed for several reasons regarding the liverpool equaliser.
I think the first is that prior to the goal, Digne the defender, plays the ball when he tackles, but the opposing Liverpool player goes down as part of the follow on.
To me it was a good tackle and was not and indirect free kick.
BUT
subsequently two issues in the penalty box ensued.
One the attacking Liverpool player had a raised boot to play the ball close to an opponent.
If I read the laws correctly it states - If there's no contact but he is playing in a dangerous manner/endangering the safety of his opponent then an IDFK is to be awarded. His foot was high and studs were shown but he played the ball. However, his momentum, Like Digne continued and he felled Konsa who was no longer able to defend the situation. so if Digne was penalised why was'nt the liverpool player for either offense?
But there were so many other poor decisions but all the press pick up on was that Ollie was offside in 1st phase of play for our goal.. which i also disagree with, they forget offside occurs when the ball has been hit.. not during its flight.
Quite disappointed that we didn't deal with the ball better in our box but I am convinced it was scored following a reasonable call for foul play.
Overall - a great and entertaining performance and if we took one of the three manufactured opportinities the draw would have justified the performace.
UTV
Very good points raised Broadlee. Konsa was definitely fouled and if the same law is applied that disallowed our goal in the FA Cup tie at OT (Cavani/Ramsey) than the equaliser should not have stood.
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Haven't read the thread - but I'm more incensed about their first goal. Yes, Mings is an idiot, but how was that not a foul by Jota? He flew in with a kung-fu style kick that surely would be a foul in any other part of the pitch?
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My mate is a Liverpool fan and followed the game on one of their forums.
He was saying that even they couldn’t believe what they were getting away with
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Have been talking about our first goal with a Liverpool mate.
If no one flags for offside and the ref doesn't blow and stop the game what are we supposed to do?
We carry on playing and after a couple of phases of play we score. VAR check it, goal stands.
Not saying it's right, but play to the whistle.
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Haven't read the thread - but I'm more incensed about their first goal. Yes, Mings is an idiot, but how was that not a foul by Jota? He flew in with a kung-fu style kick that surely would be a foul in any other part of the pitch?
Don’t know why Mings is an idiot!
I feel he was unlucky the way the ball just got trapped as it did. It happens.
The Kung fu kick, on the other hand, was unbelievable. You just know had it been the other way round a foul have been called.
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Don’t know why Mings is an idiot!
I feel he was unlucky the way the ball just got trapped as it did. It happens.
I hear you, but I feel at some point it becomes more than a coincidence.
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Don’t know why Mings is an idiot!
I feel he was unlucky the way the ball just got trapped as it did. It happens.
I hear you, but I feel at some point it becomes more than a coincidence.
He's accident prone for sure but he saves more points than he loses.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Well said Andy. There may well be better players out there and we might upgrade him at some point. But he’s given absolutely everything to us and is the most stand up bloke off the pitch. An absolute credit to the club.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Fuckin' amen!
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I really am quite annoyed for several reasons regarding the liverpool equaliser.
I think the first is that prior to the goal, Digne the defender, plays the ball when he tackles, but the opposing Liverpool player goes down as part of the follow on.
To me it was a good tackle and was not and indirect free kick.
BUT
subsequently two issues in the penalty box ensued.
One the attacking Liverpool player had a raised boot to play the ball close to an opponent.
If I read the laws correctly it states - If there's no contact but he is playing in a dangerous manner/endangering the safety of his opponent then an IDFK is to be awarded. His foot was high and studs were shown but he played the ball. However, his momentum, Like Digne continued and he felled Konsa who was no longer able to defend the situation. so if Digne was penalised why was'nt the liverpool player for either offense?
But there were so many other poor decisions but all the press pick up on was that Ollie was offside in 1st phase of play for our goal.. which i also disagree with, they forget offside occurs when the ball has been hit.. not during its flight.
Quite disappointed that we didn't deal with the ball better in our box but I am convinced it was scored following a reasonable call for foul play.
Overall - a great and entertaining performance and if we took one of the three manufactured opportinities the draw would have justified the performace.
UTV
that was my interpretation also. Konsa got taken out by a high kick in the back. It all happened so fast, but why no look at it by VAR?
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As i predicted on H & V yesterday morning we would not get a result with the fat idiot Jon Moss in charge No way should that Liverpool first goal have been allowed ,it was a clear foul on Konsa by Jota which Moss either chose to ignore or missed .This idiot obviously has a a agenda against the Villa .I can honestly say in every game going back several years i have never seen him ever give Villa a positive decision but plenty of negative ones It would be interesting to examine his complete list of Villa games I would wager that he has never given Villa any thing
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Really thought we played well last night. The first sub didn’t work out and our finishing could have been better, but we gave them a good game and in the end felt we deserved a draw.
Jon Moss has to be the worst ref I’ve seen in years, an absolute embarrassment. Let’s go for the 6 points now and finish on a high.
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As i predicted on H & V yesterday morning we would not get a result with the fat idiot Jon Moss in charge No way should that Liverpool first goal have been allowed ,it was a clear foul on Konsa by Jota which Moss either chose to ignore or missed .This idiot obviously has a a agenda against the Villa .I can honestly say in every game going back several years i have never seen him ever give Villa a positive decision but plenty of negative ones It would be interesting to examine his complete list of Villa games I would wager that he has never given Villa any thing
Yesterday I read that we've lost the last 7 or 8 he's reffed. I haven't checked that though.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Fuckin' amen!
Absolutely this.
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Henry Winter was waxing lyrical about our support and the atmosphere last night at Villa Park in The Times today - sorry but I don’t have a link
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If I recall correctly Moss was also the ref in the game against Arsenal away in our first season back in the PL when he elected not to award a pen to us for a more blatant handball by Sokratis from a Hourihane shot when it was 3-2 to them you couldn't imagine, as well as letting Arse players stand in the Villa wall for a free kick from which they scored. I've always thought he was an utterly incompetent twat since that Helenius incident against Spurs in 2013 and he's done absolutely nothing to alter that view in the intervening years.
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He took on the fat fucker who can’t keep up with play role from Dowd.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Agree totally andyh
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Stands and applauds.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
I agree. To replace him with someone better would cost at least £40 million. The odd mistake aside, I would struggle to think of someone better....
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Well said Andy.
There was a moment in the second half when the ball was hit long and hard at him, with a number of Liverpool straight on him, he cleared it first time away and it was picked up by one of their players deep in their half. There was a collective groan near me. I honestly don’t know what was expected of him, take the ball down, dribble round three Liverpool players and play a 40 yard through ball?
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
I agree. To replace him with someone better would cost at least £40 million. The odd mistake aside, I would struggle to think of someone better....
both Mings and Konsa are adequate for where we want to get to. The problem as I see it, is that they are exposed far more than they should be, which is down to us not having the the required quality in the midfield.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
I agree. To replace him with someone better would cost at least £40 million. The odd mistake aside, I would struggle to think of someone better....
both Mings and Konsa are adequate for where we want to get to. The problem as I see it, is that they are exposed far more than they should be, which is down to us not having the the required quality in the midfield.
This is where I am. I want to see how they get on behind a functioning midfield.
The strikers on the other hand, I’m more sceptical about.
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The Scousers at work thought the game was like a Derby in terms of atmosphere and how much we got at them. They were collectively shitting bricks in the last 10.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Very well said and fully agree. As an example, someone on the match thread concluded after Luiz’s misplaced pass for their second that we need to replace Mings.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Well said. Aside from anything, he’s one of the most articulate and intelligent people in football, so never an idiot.
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I think Mings isn't our problem - yes he makes mistakes but brings way way more positives then negatives
I think both Konsa and Mings have been overly exposed due to a midfield that lacks a DCM which is critical when our full backs roam so much
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Well said. It does feel like some of the stick he gets from other clubs fans as well as perhaps some of ours is not all to do with football. But football is used as an excuse to air grievances.
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I always try to have an unbiased view (after the game) and believe we were worth a point. My plastic mate who supports Liverpool and watched it from home had such a different view saying that Villa Park is such a difficult place to go to because of the partisan crowd (agreed) like going to Burnley (disagree) but our players went down every time they were touched, our goal was offside, we were dominated throughout etc etc....
He wouldnt have it that the scousers shithouse half the time, but I suppose this sort of discussion is all part of it. And I do agree, Tyrone is such a big part of our side, dont understand the grief he gets given here.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Very well said and fully agree. As an example, someone on the match thread concluded after Luiz’s misplaced pass for their second that we need to replace Mings.
I totally agree with everything written except it wasn’t Luiz’s misplaced pass but Chucky’s. Certain players will always get the brunt of the fans criticism and Ings and Luiz get more than their fair share
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I didn't think the Liverpool players were particularly bad, they didn't go down any more than average, and certainly nowhere near as bad as the likes of Man U, Tottenham and Brentford who are the worst we've seen at Villa Park this season. It's just that the referee was an absolute arse, consistently giving them free kicks they didn't even claim for.
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Mings is a massive, integral part of us being where we are.
There are probably 15 or 16 teams in the prem where he would be a guaranteed starter every week.
I’m fucking pig sick of fans calling him out for every little mistake he makes, whether those mistakes lead to a goal or not.
Pretty much every goal in every game is due to some sort of ‘mistake’, misjudgment or slip up by someone. It’s the nature of the game.
He’s our captain. Our leader.
One thing he’s not is a fucking ‘idiot’.
Fuckin' amen!
He's our Emperor.
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Henry Winter was waxing lyrical about our support and the atmosphere last night at Villa Park in The Times today - sorry but I don’t have a link
The atmosphere at Villa Park is always ramped up when there's a dodgy referee.
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I didn't think the Liverpool players were particularly bad, they didn't go down any more than average, and certainly nowhere near as bad as the likes of Man U, Tottenham and Brentford who are the worst we've seen at Villa Park this season. It's just that the referee was an absolute arse, consistently giving them free kicks they didn't even claim for.
The way the game panned out it was never really in their best interests to time waste too badly. You never a see a player going down at the slightest touch and rolling around like they've been shot when it's 1-1 and both teams want to win.
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Henry Winter was waxing lyrical about our support and the atmosphere last night at Villa Park in The Times today - sorry but I don’t have a link
The atmosphere at Villa Park is always ramped up when there's a dodgy referee.
The atmosphere always seems better under the lights. On the Liverpool forums they were complaining about us having Everton-like levels of hate for them, wondering what it was all about. Must have been surprising given that they're our "second favourite team" apparently.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/imperious-virgil-van-dijk-helps-liverpool-out-of-a-tight-spot-tr67nb2bs
I don't think Henry Winter is a Villa fan but he certainly seems to have a huge soft spot for us. Always speaks of us favourably and mentions The Holte 4 times in the article above.
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Wasnt hugely impressed by the away support - not much from them until their second went in. Loved the Holte singing "We forgot that you were here..." Thought the Arsenal fans were better, oddly enough.
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Henry Winter was waxing lyrical about our support and the atmosphere last night at Villa Park in The Times today - sorry but I don’t have a link
The atmosphere at Villa Park is always ramped up when there's a dodgy referee.
The atmosphere always seems better under the lights. On the Liverpool forums they were complaining about us having Everton-like levels of hate for them, wondering what it was all about. Must have been surprising given that they're our "second favourite team" apparently.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/imperious-virgil-van-dijk-helps-liverpool-out-of-a-tight-spot-tr67nb2bs
I don't think Henry Winter is a Villa fan but he certainly seems to have a huge soft spot for us. Always speaks of us favourably and mentions The Holte 4 times in the article above.
Any chance of someone copying and pasting that article here? Thank you in advance :)
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I think Spurs Would get my vote for loudest away fans this season, and that’s something I never thought I’d ever say
However they did have a fair bit to cheer
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Any chance of someone copying and pasting that article here? Thank you in advance :)
I don't have a Times subscription but can read it simply by clicking the 'X'. Anyway...
At the end of this breathless game, the match-winner Sadio Mané briefly disappeared in a huge bear hug from a jubilant Jürgen Klopp. Steven Gerrard marched past, bearing the look of a man utterly frustrated by defeat. These two snapshots told one story of total commitment.
The idea that Klopp’s side would lose any of their fabled intensity because City held the advantage after the weekend, and should perhaps preserve their energies for the FA Cup and Champions League finals, was always nonsense. They gave absolutely everything, especially the outstanding quartet of Mané, Virgil van Dijk, Joël Matip and Trent Alexander-Arnold, knowing that they had to keep the pressure on City, who can return three points clear with victory at Molineux tonight. Alexander-Arnold embodied Liverpool’s resolute mentality, passing expertly short and long, and making a couple of important blocks.
The idea that Gerrard might give his beloved former club an easy ride was also shown up as baloney, offensive to such a professional and naively ignoring his competitive nature. With a stronger bench to call on, Gerrard would have tested Klopp even more.
From pitch to stand, Villa were so fired up for this. Everyone wants Liverpool to win the title, according to Pep Guardiola. Well, he should have heard the baying Holte End, some of whom were singing “sign on” at the visitors.
He should have seen how Gerrard’s players performed, constantly attacking, especially the former Liverpool man, Danny Ings, who was prevented from scoring only by the anticipation and interventions of Van Dijk.
Guardiola should have seen Lucas Digne and Matty Cash flying down the flanks, attempting everything in their powers to try to overcome Liverpool. He should have seen how influential Douglas Luiz was in midfield even scoring. Gerrard is building a strong team ethos here. He just needs the right recruits in the summer.
There is also an irritation within Villa Park over frequent questions about Gerrard succeeding Klopp one day. At least, Klopp’s contract extension has lessened those. Gerrard is totally focused on Villa, galvanising the whole place, and this famous old stadium shook with belief and defiance. The Holte End rarely paused in its vocal backing of the team, and frequent flag-waving.
Douglas Luiz put the hosts in front after just three minutes
“AVFC The Obsession” read one banner, “Holte End The 12th Man” another.
Well prepared and motivated by Gerrard, Villa’s players, shaped in a diamond with Philippe Coutinho at the tip, had swarmed all over Liverpool from Jon Moss’s opening whistle and the poor referee, who retires soon, struggled to keep up with the pace and intensity of the game.
Villa took a third-minute lead through Luiz, who began the move on the right, passing back to Cash. Gerrard loves his full-backs to get forward and whip in crosses, and Cash delivered here. His ball caused chaos in Liverpool’s area, carrying to John McGinn. Digne now took over, whipping another cross in.
Villa players flew towards the six-yard area. Ollie Watkins arrived first, followed by Luiz, the pair scattering Matip and Konstantinos Tsimikas. Alisson managed to save Luiz’s header but failed to control it and the Villa No 6 rammed in the rebound left-footed. Klopp stood there open-mouthed in disbelief.
Klopp’s players hit back within three minutes, again via a goal that arrived after similar chaos in the six-yard box. Alexander-Arnold, whose distribution was one of the features of the game, delivered the free kick from the right. Tyrone Mings broke off from wrestling Diogo Jota but missed the ball. Matip escaped Watkins’s clutches, and attacked the loose ball which bounced up. Jota, now free of Mings, leapt up and connected, sending the ball left to Van Dijk.
Emiliano Martínez stretched out a hand to save Van Dijk’s shot but could not prevent the ball from reaching Matip, who drove it past Mings on the line. As Klopp punched the air, and then his chest, Gerrard looked away in frustration.
The tempo eased for a while, and there was a brief moment to take in the five changes in the Liverpool line-up, leaving Mohamed Salah and Thiago Alcântara starting on the bench. Klopp trusts the understudies to maintain the intensity.
The strain on Liverpool’s players, and the sheer intensity of their opponents’ play, was confirmed when Fabinho’s hamstring gave way, making him a doubt for Saturday’s Wembley date at the very least. Jordan Henderson came on, taking the armband from Van Dijk.
Mané glances home a Díaz cross as Liverpool went level on points with Manchester City, who have a game in hand
Somehow that was the end of scoring for the half. Alisson almost gifted a chance to Villa, passing to Watkins, but recovering. Coutinho, now popping up on the left, juggled the ball past Alexander-Arnold and swapped passes with Digne before curling his right-foot shot over.
Villa are closing in on a permanent deal for the player on loan from Barcelona, and it makes obvious sense, as he is enjoying football under Gerrard, his old Liverpool team-mate, and is settled in the area. Barcelona, now living in more straitened times, cannot afford his eye-watering salary and Villa are hopeful of sorting a deal that will keep him within their wage structure.
For all his work as the half wore on, Coutinho could still have turned around behind. Villa were relieved that Naby Keita totally miskicked when ten yards out and unmarked, a waste of Alexander-Arnold’s wonderful cross.
Two substitutions arguably changed the game. Marvelous Nakamba was tiring, so Gerrard removed him for Carney Chukwuemeka and pushed Luiz back into the anchoring role after 62 minutes. Luiz was less effective deep.
Within a minute, Thiago arrived for Curtis Jones and made an impact within two minutes, stealing possession, and Mané took the move on. Jota became involved, and slid the ball left to Luis Díaz. He ran at Mings and then stabbed in a lowish cross. Mané had drifted into space, helped by poor concentration from Ezri Konsa and Digne. Mané positioned himself between the pair and steered his header past Martínez.
The former Southampton player has now scored nine times in his ten appearances against Villa.
As Mané ran towards the away fans to celebrate, over on the other side Liverpool’s substitutes, James Milner, Salah and Roberto Firmino, swamped Díaz, congratulating him on his trickery that had produced the goal.
Villa responded to the beseeching of the Holte End. Ings ran through but Alisson was quickly off his line to block and was then twice thwarted by Van Dijk. Liverpool keep going, hoping for a City slip.
Assistant should not have let play run
Peter Walton, former Premier League referee
Liverpool fans might have felt aggrieved if Aston Villa’s early opening goal by Douglas Luiz had been more costly to their Premier league title ambitions, and with some good reason too.
Ollie Watkins, right, is clearly offside as he receives the ball.
The law states that the assistant referee should keep the flag down only in very tight offside situations.
In my opinion, this was not a tight situation, therefore his flag should have gone up and Jürgen Klopp had every reason to complain.
However, as play was allowed to continue, Liverpool had ample opportunities to try to play the ball after Alisson Becker, the goalkeeper made a save.
This triggered another phase of play — which meant the original “offside” became void.
Aston Villa (4-3-1-2): E Martínez 6 — L Digne 6, T Mings 5, E Konsa 5, M Cash 7 — J McGinn 7, M Nakamba 7 (C Chukwuemeka 61min, 6), D Luiz 6 — P Coutinho 6 (E Buendía 70, 6) — D Ings 7, O Watkins 7 (B Traoré 81).
Liverpool (4-3-3): Alisson 6 — K Tsimikas 7, J Matip 7, V van Dijk 7, T Alexander-Arnold 7 — N Keïta 6, Fabinho 6 (J Henderson 30, 7) , C Jones 6 (Thiago 62, 6) — L Díaz 7 (M Salah 71), D Jota 6, S Mané 7.
Referee J Moss.
Attendance 41,919.
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Jim Beglin, I think it was on Optus Sport. Terribly biased with the main commentator, but then checked himself and mentioned the Holte about 3 or 4 times in the space of a minute or so.
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Wasnt hugely impressed by the away support - not much from them until their second went in. Loved the Holte singing "We forgot that you were here..." Thought the Arsenal fans were better, oddly enough.
The phrase "sing when you're winning" applies to these fuckers more than any other
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Henry Winter is a really good journalist.
He's also very appreciative of Villa and Villa Park.
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Wasnt hugely impressed by the away support - not much from them until their second went in. Loved the Holte singing "We forgot that you were here..." Thought the Arsenal fans were better, oddly enough.
The phrase "sing when you're winning" applies to these fuckers more than any other
on the TV here in Aus- they must’ve had the Liverpool fans mic’d up. You couldn’t hear our supporters.
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You hear referees get berated at all grounds, it goes with the territory, but he must be bad if the entire 4 stands bellowed out "Stand up if you hate John Moss" and an almost just as loud rant of "Cheat, cheat" which surely has to be the worst thing anyone can label towards a ref.
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One of the commentators said, He is retiring at the end of the season, he will not miss his trips here.
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One of the commentators said, He is retiring at the end of the season, he will not miss his trips here.
Nor will we.
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The thing I dont get about him is he's visibly unfit. There was an incident in the 2nd half when Liverpool broke away and the fat mess was blowing out of his arse trying to keep up. In an industry when fitness has to be a minimum requirement I find it staggering.
Still, atleast he didn't invent a new rule this time so thats something to be grateful for.
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Thank you for pasting that article, BV! Much appreciated!!
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Shame the 'sign on' chant still gets heard, like a boil on the arse that won't heal.