Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Flin5tone on August 31, 2019, 08:45:06 PM

Title: Violent scenes
Post by: Flin5tone on August 31, 2019, 08:45:06 PM
https://twitter.com/aaronsmurphy/status/1167833839328210947

https://twitter.com/EnderssFM/status/1167834459242213376


Not condoning this pushing and shoving but my god you can understand the frustration, I threw my phone at the wall then regretted my actions.

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: dave.woodhall on August 31, 2019, 08:46:35 PM
Please don't link to that site. There's plenty of footage of these incidents elsewhere.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 31, 2019, 08:47:12 PM
I've swapped the link to that rag with a couple of twitter videos
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on August 31, 2019, 08:52:39 PM
Welcome to Boris' s Britain
Police overreacting in a violent way towards football fans
Sectarian violence in Glasgow
Democracy demonstrations across the country
The shape of things to come in Post Brexit Britain
The S*n will be calling for fences at football grounds and greater  powers for the police to "assault"  people with impunity
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Behind Bluenose Lines on August 31, 2019, 08:53:17 PM
Knowing our luck, we'll probably get fined!  ::)
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: QuintonVilla on August 31, 2019, 08:57:24 PM
Fair play to our fans for wading in and defending the lad/lads who were grabbed or hit down the front. Far too often you see jobsworth stewards or coppers drag fans away for doing very little whilst their fellow fans stand and watch. Our fans were rightly angry after that refereeing display, not just the goal decision but all game he wound our fans up. Frustrations spilled over at the end and the stewards antagonised and made the situation worse.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Davkaus on August 31, 2019, 09:08:27 PM
Fair play to our fans for wading in and defending the lad/lads who were grabbed or hit down the front. Far too often you see jobsworth stewards or coppers drag fans away for doing very little whilst their fellow fans stand and watch. Our fans were rightly angry after that refereeing display, not just the goal decision but all game he wound our fans up. Frustrations spilled over at the end and the stewards antagonised and made the situation worse.

Yeah, forget getting out of the way and minding your own business, far more sensible to wade in and start throwing a few punches, that's bound to help.

Bunch of absolute bellends in that video.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: cdbearsfan on August 31, 2019, 09:12:26 PM
There seem to be a fair few dickheads in the crowd. The police reaction was way over the top, though. No excuse for hitting someone who is offering no resistance over and over. I hope that baton-wielding coward loses his job. They're supposed to keep supporters safe, not injure them.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Dave P on August 31, 2019, 09:13:24 PM
Almost a year to the day since similar scenes at Bramall Lane.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Davkaus on August 31, 2019, 09:15:41 PM
There seem to be a fair few dickheads in the crowd. The police reaction was way over the top, though. No excuse for hitting someone who is offering no resistance over and over. I hope that baton-wielding coward loses his job. They're supposed to keep supporters safe, not injure them.

Standard practice from the met. Football fans, protesters, just a good excuse for the thugs to give people a kicking
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Flin5tone on August 31, 2019, 09:17:36 PM
Please don't link to that site. There's plenty of footage of these incidents elsewhere.

Apologies, was the only report I could find
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: hilts_coolerking on August 31, 2019, 09:22:55 PM
Some people, fans and coppers, need a fuck's sight more self-control.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: LowerNorthStand on August 31, 2019, 09:32:57 PM
Ironic that a man with the surname “Friend” can cause so much chaos
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: The Edge on August 31, 2019, 09:46:23 PM
Fair play to our fans for wading in and defending the lad/lads who were grabbed or hit down the front. Far too often you see jobsworth stewards or coppers drag fans away for doing very little whilst their fellow fans stand and watch. Our fans were rightly angry after that refereeing display, not just the goal decision but all game he wound our fans up. Frustrations spilled over at the end and the stewards antagonised and made the situation worse.

Yeah, forget getting out of the way and minding your own business, far more sensible to wade in and start throwing a few punches, that's bound to help.

Bunch of absolute bellends in that video.
I guess you'd have to have been there to know who was at fault. While i don't condone violence if that was one of my mates being pinned down and whacked with batons im pretty sure i'd have "waded in"
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: MalcolmP on August 31, 2019, 09:54:25 PM
Ironic that a man with the surname “Friend” can cause so much chaos
perhaps friend should be charged with behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace or inciting a riot!
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Brassneck on August 31, 2019, 10:22:06 PM
I wasn’t aware of that incident. However, i was further back, right next to the home fans.  There was a group of stewards there who were continually antagonising the Villa fans whilst ignoring what the home fans were doing.

I left the ground with the opinion that some stewards enjoy confrontation and actually invite it. 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: saunders_heroes on August 31, 2019, 10:26:41 PM
What those videos don’t show is the scummy stewards goading the fans at the final whistle. Absolute scumbags.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Sexual Ealing on August 31, 2019, 10:28:06 PM
Edit: wrong thread, sorry.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Steve67 on August 31, 2019, 10:33:55 PM
I don't think any of them can be covered in glory.  There are fists being thrown by fans and an over zealous copper smashing people.  No-one wins with this sort of shit.

The tweet about a 'shambles of a club' is also not necessary either.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 31, 2019, 10:36:24 PM
I couldn’t see clearly what was happening as I was in row 28. But I did see a senior security official ( suit, ear piece, no hi viz jacket) seemingly stop Villa players getting too close to the away end. Engels seemed miffed with him.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: BlackCountryVilla on August 31, 2019, 10:43:16 PM
Fair play to our fans for wading in and defending the lad/lads who were grabbed or hit down the front. Far too often you see jobsworth stewards or coppers drag fans away for doing very little whilst their fellow fans stand and watch. Our fans were rightly angry after that refereeing display, not just the goal decision but all game he wound our fans up. Frustrations spilled over at the end and the stewards antagonised and made the situation worse.

Yeah, forget getting out of the way and minding your own business, far more sensible to wade in and start throwing a few punches, that's bound to help.

Bunch of absolute bellends in that video.
I guess you'd have to have been there to know who was at fault. While i don't condone violence if that was one of my mates being pinned down and whacked with batons im pretty sure i'd have "waded in"
As would I. The last thing I want to see is trouble on the terraces but images of that coward swinging his baton at someone offering no resistance cannot be ignored. Absolute disgrace.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: kentishvillan on August 31, 2019, 10:48:07 PM
I don't think any of them can be covered in glory.  There are fists being thrown by fans and an over zealous copper smashing people.  No-one wins with this sort of shit.

The tweet about a 'shambles of a club' is also not necessary either.
[/quote]

I saw the whole thing from yards away. Simply put, a small minority of Villa fans started the whole incident by throwing punches and acting like twats. Shameful behaviour indeed !
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pat McMahon on August 31, 2019, 10:51:54 PM
There seem to be a fair few dickheads in the crowd. The police reaction was way over the top, though. No excuse for hitting someone who is offering no resistance over and over. I hope that baton-wielding coward loses his job. They're supposed to keep supporters safe, not injure them.

Standard practice from the met. Football fans, protesters, just a good excuse for the thugs to give people a kicking
My ex brother in law is a cop in Brum and he said the same thing
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on August 31, 2019, 10:54:26 PM
If you watch the seconds clip, about 20 secs in on the bottom left corner you see a fella in a claret polo(?) shirt involved with police, that becomes the footage you see in the first video filmed from the Villa POV as he's the fella being hit by the copper.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: kieron on September 01, 2019, 12:47:03 PM
Welcome to Boris' s Britain
Police overreacting in a violent way towards football fans
Sectarian violence in Glasgow
Democracy demonstrations across the country
The shape of things to come in Post Brexit Britain
The S*n will be calling for fences at football grounds and greater  powers for the police to "assault"  people with impunity

Politicising the incident seems a tad bizarre.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: AV82EC on September 01, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
From looking at a few clips it looks like a small minority of Villa fans being total bellends, really poor stewarding and a total overreaction by a couple of coppers.

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pete3206 on September 01, 2019, 01:08:57 PM
Welcome to Boris' s Britain
Police overreacting in a violent way towards football fans
Sectarian violence in Glasgow
Democracy demonstrations across the country
The shape of things to come in Post Brexit Britain
The S*n will be calling for fences at football grounds and greater  powers for the police to "assault"  people with impunity

Eh?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Des Little on September 01, 2019, 01:16:07 PM
Welcome to Boris' s Britain
Police overreacting in a violent way towards football fans
Sectarian violence in Glasgow
Democracy demonstrations across the country
The shape of things to come in Post Brexit Britain
The S*n will be calling for fences at football grounds and greater  powers for the police to "assault"  people with impunity

Eh?

I’m sure I saw BoJo swinging punches in his Muller 94 away shirt
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 01, 2019, 01:47:13 PM
I was right by the front on the side on crutches. It wasn't good and unfortunately it will only be one or two scapegoats who will get a banning order. The copper who waded in with his baton is actually palace's gladden who himself should get banned.

A few dickheads did get involved but the whole stewarding there needs looking at
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pete3206 on September 01, 2019, 03:00:39 PM
By scapegoats, do you mean utter bellends who needlessly got involved in fighting?

I have no sympathy for anyone who gets banned. 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pat McMahon on September 01, 2019, 03:02:23 PM
I was right by the front on the side on crutches. It wasn't good and unfortunately it will only be one or two scapegoats who will get a banning order. The copper who waded in with his baton is actually palace's gladden who himself should get banned.

A few dickheads did get involved but the whole stewarding there needs looking at

What / who is Palace’s Gladden?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: JJ-AV on September 01, 2019, 03:09:40 PM
Was that awful Konsa song being sung yesterday? Sounded like it on the stream
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: N'ZMAV on September 01, 2019, 03:53:35 PM
I never get wound up enough to smash my phone, or even slag anything off - it just doesn't get to me that much any more...

I think the Garde/Sherwood season knocked the fight out of me.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 01, 2019, 04:01:23 PM
Bladden
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 01, 2019, 04:05:33 PM
I think he means their version of PC Bladen which is the Villa WMP.

https://twitter.com/avfc_wmp
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Risso on September 01, 2019, 04:30:52 PM
There were quite a few Palace fans on Twitter yesterday offering their support.  Apparently that police bloke is a wrong 'un with lots of previous for being massively heavy handed.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Dogtanian on September 01, 2019, 08:00:59 PM
Was that awful Konsa song being sung yesterday? Sounded like it on the stream

A little, but not massively.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on September 01, 2019, 08:22:37 PM
Does anyone know if the fella who was being beaten by a coward of a"police officer" is ok
Watching the actions of some of the stewards I wonder whether there is any possibility of claiming assault - surely they are not permitted to physically manhandle anyone
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pat McMahon on September 01, 2019, 08:38:34 PM
I think he means their version of PC Bladen which is the Villa WMP.

https://twitter.com/avfc_wmp

Cheers PWS
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Legion on September 01, 2019, 08:55:07 PM
I don't think any of them can be covered in glory.  There are fists being thrown by fans and an over zealous copper smashing people.  No-one wins with this sort of shit.

The tweet about a 'shambles of a club' is also not necessary either.

This is how I see it aswell.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 01, 2019, 10:39:35 PM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 01, 2019, 10:45:42 PM
As in "up yours" or "one-nil"?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: slammer on September 02, 2019, 12:00:00 AM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
I was there but sitting by the demarcation zone, didn't know about the problems until later, if that was the case with stewards they should not be doing that job,totally out of order, very little security on the demarcation zone.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 02, 2019, 12:06:36 AM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Is that all?  All that because someone stuck two fingers up?  Fuck me, some people just shouldn't be allowed out of the house.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Brassneck on September 02, 2019, 12:34:48 AM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Is that all?  All that because someone stuck two fingers up?  Fuck me, some people just shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

Yeah - It's a great example to set isn't it?  No drinking within sight of the pitch but the supervising stewards can fill their boots when a 96th decision goes their way.

These people are paid to prevent trouble, not contribute towards it.

These stewards were among the worst I've seen and I didn't even see the incident at the front.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 02, 2019, 01:07:48 AM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Is that all?  All that because someone stuck two fingers up?  Fuck me, some people just shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

Yeah - It's a great example to set isn't it?  No drinking within sight of the pitch but the supervising stewards can fill their boots when a 96th decision goes their way.

These people are paid to prevent trouble, not contribute towards it.

These stewards were among the worst I've seen and I didn't even see the incident at the front.

Every ground where there are casual agency stewards including OT there are always issues. 
I was trying to get down to the front yesterday on my crutches only for this fool to stop me and tell me to go back up and around.  Jobsworths at best the lot of them.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: darren woolley on September 02, 2019, 06:48:27 AM
I wasn't far behind the scenes the police and stewards were definitely at fault with the way they treated the Villa fan's from what I could see from my seat.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: amfy on September 02, 2019, 07:19:06 AM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Is that all?  All that because someone stuck two fingers up?  Fuck me, some people just shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

Well you wouldn’t be working as a steward at Villa Park again if you did this. It’s absolutely a massive misconduct issue to show support of the team around away fans.

Yes there are some dickhead football fans that can overreact massively and their behaviour is tantamount to a 2 year olds tantrum, but the stewards are supposed to be the ‘adults’ here.

When I worked as a steward for a few games they said their one doubt about taking me on was that I was a fan, and because of that they put me with away fans to make me show I could behave neutrally. I lasted 3 games and got sacked for supporting the Villa school kids in the half time relay!

Admittedly that was some years ago but I’d imagine this is the kind of thing that’s got stricter, not less so.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Davkaus on September 02, 2019, 07:42:00 AM
They shouldn't be doing it, obviously, but if that's all it takes for people to swinging punches, they fully deserve the banning orders I suspect they're going to receive.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: brian green on September 02, 2019, 07:45:18 AM
I am also of the view that heavy handed, provocative stewarding/policing is symptomatic of febrile post Brexit Britain.  Witness my son and I being arrested by the police on Wembley Way at the play off final.  My son for kicking back a football that had flown out of the group of Sheffield fans having a kick about.  Me for protesting about my son being arrested.  We were treated as thugs.  I am in my eighties my son is a middle aged television executive and a London Borough councillor.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: robbo1874 on September 02, 2019, 08:35:54 AM
Jesus Brian. People like you make me sick. I’d like to get you and your son before the court. Stiff sentences. We can not tolerate disorder at football matches, either inside or outside of the stadium.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Risso on September 02, 2019, 09:02:00 AM
I am also of the view that heavy handed, provocative stewarding/policing is symptomatic of febrile post Brexit Britain.  Witness my son and I being arrested by the police on Wembley Way at the play off final.  My son for kicking back a football that had flown out of the group of Sheffield fans having a kick about.  Me for protesting about my son being arrested.  We were treated as thugs.  I am in my eighties my son is a middle aged television executive and a London Borough councillor.

Sheffield?  Which play off game were you at?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: chrisw1 on September 02, 2019, 10:24:31 AM
I am also of the view that heavy handed, provocative stewarding/policing is symptomatic of febrile post Brexit Britain.  Witness my son and I being arrested by the police on Wembley Way at the play off final.  My son for kicking back a football that had flown out of the group of Sheffield fans having a kick about.  Me for protesting about my son being arrested.  We were treated as thugs.  I am in my eighties my son is a middle aged television executive and a London Borough councillor.
Shocking as it may be, what on eath has that got to do with a 'post Brexit Britain'?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Dogtanian on September 02, 2019, 12:48:56 PM
Got to say it was the agency stewards that caused the incident with sticking their fingers up which caused some dickheads to push forward and bedlam erupted
Is that all?  All that because someone stuck two fingers up?  Fuck me, some people just shouldn't be allowed out of the house.

Well you wouldn’t be working as a steward at Villa Park again if you did this. It’s absolutely a massive misconduct issue to show support of the team around away fans.

Yes there are some dickhead football fans that can overreact massively and their behaviour is tantamount to a 2 year olds tantrum, but the stewards are supposed to be the ‘adults’ here.

When I worked as a steward for a few games they said their one doubt about taking me on was that I was a fan, and because of that they put me with away fans to make me show I could behave neutrally. I lasted 3 games and got sacked for supporting the Villa school kids in the half time relay!

Admittedly that was some years ago but I’d imagine this is the kind of thing that’s got stricter, not less so.

In Lambert's last season I got a steward removed at Hull for celebrating their goals in front of us.  It is something a club should be very wary of, especially as there is a lot of potential for ill-feeling at the moment a goal is scored, so stewards between the two sets of fans need to be focused on spotting and dealing with trouble at those moments, not celebrating like an idiot.

I should add that the other stewards at Hull dealt with it very professionally.  The steward I spoke to about it listened and contacted the senior steward, who again listened respectfully and immediately took action once she was sure I had properly identified who it was.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 02, 2019, 01:22:59 PM
I have no issues with a steward celebrating their goal but the two  who were goating our fans were bang out of order.  Gosh I sound like some Red scouse now.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wince on September 02, 2019, 01:33:41 PM
Different world granted but I used to be a security steward at the nec and nia. My job was to ensure the safety of the crowd and make sure that any behaviour that endangered the crowd was dealt with swiftly and effectively. It meant looking at the crowd and not what was going on on the stage. In short we weren’t there to enjoy the concert or event but to marshal it. Yes it is great to be a fan of who you are seeing but the stewards in any event should be there to ensure the safety and security and not be one of the crowd. Whilst i understand that a lot of fans are stewards it sets a bad example if you are there watching the match rather than doing your job. Like I said it is a different world that I was in but you would aim to resolve any problems without provoking or antagonising. But we know football evokes passions and most of us will get impassioned at some point. But I cannot and will not support those who go to far and get physical or throwing verbal slurs.  Violence has no place in football and stewards should be trained to deal with any non-compliance in a non-biased and professional way. Not celebrating or getting involved with the crowd because you ain’t paid to watch the game. Likewise some fans also need to have a word with themselves and rather than responding and reacting report the steward or stewards at fault.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 02, 2019, 03:50:18 PM
Well you wouldn’t be working as a steward at Villa Park again if you did this. It’s absolutely a massive misconduct issue to show support of the team around away fans.

Yes there are some dickhead football fans that can overreact massively and their behaviour is tantamount to a 2 year olds tantrum, but the stewards are supposed to be the ‘adults’ here.
They're all supposed to be adults!  Of course the steward shouldn't be doing what he did but what happened afterwards is down to dickheads not being able to control themselves.  The whole thing is completely pathetic.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Brassneck on September 02, 2019, 04:04:00 PM
Well you wouldn’t be working as a steward at Villa Park again if you did this. It’s absolutely a massive misconduct issue to show support of the team around away fans.

Yes there are some dickhead football fans that can overreact massively and their behaviour is tantamount to a 2 year olds tantrum, but the stewards are supposed to be the ‘adults’ here.
They're all supposed to be adults!  Of course the steward shouldn't be doing what he did but what happened afterwards is down to dickheads not being able to control themselves.  The whole thing is completely pathetic.

I agree with what you're saying and it's difficult to sympathise with anyone who has been throwing punches etc.  However, we all know there is a potential for these incidents to occur - There are flashpoints most weeks.  My gripe is that had the stewards behaved as you would have expected them to, none of this would have happened.  It is simply unacceptable for people who are charged with ensuring crowd safety and order to be goading fans who have just lost a game of football.  Had it been the guys and girls from this forum on the front few rows, the outbreak would not have happened but in a crowd of 3,000 passionate fans, there is always a good chance of an over reaction by some.

Crystal Palace need to be made aware of what is going on at their games - Nobody appears to be monitoring the stewards - Hence their licence to behave so appallingly.   
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wince on September 02, 2019, 04:19:51 PM
What training do stewards have? Are they sis trained or just monitored by door supervised trained staff?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: sid1964 on September 02, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
The picture of the bloke aiming a slap at the lady steward is not a pleasant sight! - hopefully he will be identified and if he is a season ticket holder, he will not be seen in Villa Park for quite a few years.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 02, 2019, 04:32:43 PM
I agree with what you're saying and it's difficult to sympathise with anyone who has been throwing punches etc.  However, we all know there is a potential for these incidents to occur - There are flashpoints most weeks.  My gripe is that had the stewards behaved as you would have expected them to, none of this would have happened.  It is simply unacceptable for people who are charged with ensuring crowd safety and order to be goading fans who have just lost a game of football.  Had it been the guys and girls from this forum on the front few rows, the outbreak would not have happened but in a crowd of 3,000 passionate fans, there is always a good chance of an over reaction by some.
I'd love to hear the 'he stuck two fingers up at me m'lud' defence offered in court. 'Faced with such outrageous provocation, your honour, my client had absolutely no choice but to wade in, fists flying.'
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: cdbearsfan on September 02, 2019, 04:49:07 PM
Noone is saying the reactions are justified. There is still no reason for stewards to go out of their way to enrage people, though. If that's their attitude how can a visiting fan feel safe knowing that the people in charge of their security are overgrown five year olds? Those responsible should be dismissed and replaced with someone who can act professionally and provide security rather than provocation.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Ads on September 02, 2019, 05:26:17 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: The Edge on September 02, 2019, 06:40:55 PM
We do have an element these days who are all too ready to get involved in trouble. I would never defend "fans" like that.But anyone who thinks stewards making provocative gestures is "no big deal" do not understand the first thing about crowd control. And the holier than thou attitude from some of our lot is also a bit rich. What would you do if your son/brother/mate was getting an unprovoked beating right in front of you? I wasn't there but i know people who were and by all accounts Palace employ a lot of staff eager to antagonise away supporters. Also there are met police in that part of the ground with the same mindset. I got that off a PALACE supporter.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: hilts_coolerking on September 02, 2019, 06:43:11 PM
Noone is saying the reactions are justified. There is still no reason for stewards to go out of their way to enrage people, though.
That's my point: is that all it takes to enrage people to the point of violence?  That's fucked up.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Brassneck on September 02, 2019, 06:53:22 PM
I agree with what you're saying and it's difficult to sympathise with anyone who has been throwing punches etc.  However, we all know there is a potential for these incidents to occur - There are flashpoints most weeks.  My gripe is that had the stewards behaved as you would have expected them to, none of this would have happened.  It is simply unacceptable for people who are charged with ensuring crowd safety and order to be goading fans who have just lost a game of football.  Had it been the guys and girls from this forum on the front few rows, the outbreak would not have happened but in a crowd of 3,000 passionate fans, there is always a good chance of an over reaction by some.
I'd love to hear the 'he stuck two fingers up at me m'lud' defence offered in court. 'Faced with such outrageous provocation, your honour, my client had absolutely no choice but to wade in, fists flying.'

It is not a defence.  However, it is mitigation.  You are still missing the point that has been made by the majority on this thread: Nobody has covered themselves in glory.  Anyone who threw punches must take responsibility for their actions and face the consequences.

My argument is that if the stewards had acted professionally and as we've a right to expect, there would have been no violence and nothing to report.  I go to games with an expectation that measures are in place to ensure we all can watch the game safely and without the threat of violence.  We didn't have sufficient stewarding on Saturday and the result was inevitable.  Hopefully, Palace take heed of what went on and moving forward, we won't see a repeat of what happened.

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 02, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
fuck em upwards and onwards Salford here we come. Never liked that midget Scholes. 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Herman on September 02, 2019, 09:07:05 PM
I did once see a chap lay fists on another because he had said that his Capri was faster than other's Escort - A hotly disputed claim as it transpired. 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pete3206 on September 02, 2019, 09:43:49 PM
If you're going to compare a dream machine like a Capri to an Escort, you deserve to be chinned.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 09:47:34 PM
I can see why fights start...

The Ford Escort is one of man's greatest creations. Up there with first-class cricket and cheese & onion crisps. The Capri, however, was shit.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pete3206 on September 02, 2019, 09:48:20 PM
You, outside
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 09:50:31 PM
I've never had a driving licence but I still love the look of the old Capris and Cortinas.

And if it was a race, Capri 3L Ghia would win.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: itmustbe_it is! on September 02, 2019, 10:17:37 PM
I've never had a driving licence but I still love the look of the old Capris and Cortinas.

And if it was a race, Capri 3L Ghia would win.

Not is there were any corners to go round
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 10:22:22 PM
I've never had a driving licence but I still love the look of the old Capris and Cortinas.

And if it was a race, Capri 3L Ghia would win.

Not is there were any corners to go round


Brother's stag do, did a racing day. First up, Capris. Spun the thing without even trying. Shite.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 10:25:41 PM
It's the greatest car ever made, fact!* I loved it as a kid.





*Fact may actually not be factually a correct fact.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 10:27:17 PM
Get over it. I used to think the same about the Triumph Stag.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 10:30:56 PM
Herald was better especially if it was a convertible with a Vitesse engine. Best car ever, fact.

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 10:34:10 PM
Fuck. Me.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Villa75 on September 02, 2019, 10:35:34 PM
The picture of the bloke aiming a slap at the lady steward is not a pleasant sight! - hopefully he will be identified and if he is a season ticket holder, he will not be seen in Villa Park for quite a few years.


But, I heard the said lady had stuck her tongue out at the guy, and then said, "Na na, na na na"!

How's a right minded gentleman supposed to react to that sort of provocation!!?

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 11:07:27 PM
Fuck. Me.

What?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 11:12:08 PM
Fuck. Me.

What?


Herald?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 11:15:24 PM
Purple convertible with a Vitesse engine, it was ace to a young me, even if for a while it only had 1st and 4th gear.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: adrenachrome on September 02, 2019, 11:26:36 PM
If you're going to compare a dream machine like a Capri to an Escort, you deserve to be chinned.

Depends which Escort though, does it not? Some of them were quite pokey, even pre-Cosworth.

The Capri looked the part, no doubt. When I lived in the US in the 90's, I had a Firebird Formula. That was mighty perty and was pretty rapid also. Petrol (gas) prices were somewhat lower back then.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Risso on September 02, 2019, 11:33:00 PM
Purple convertible with a Vitesse engine, it was ace to a young me, even if for a while it only had 1st and 4th gear.

That's all you need.  Reverse as well maybe!
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Lastfootstamper on September 02, 2019, 11:37:31 PM
But even ignoring the Escort, how in the s****ing f*** is a Herald better than a Stag?
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 11:44:12 PM
Compare the two and it's easy

(https://uploads.carandclassic.co.uk/uploads/cars/triumph/5724482.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4a/61/44/4a6144cbb646fbec0c026b893526cb3e.jpg)
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: PeterWithesShin on September 02, 2019, 11:47:18 PM
The stag was nice though, i'm just a sucker for fins on cars.

(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/5978f6f52a38d_S38_4069-940x599.jpg)

Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: p_ad on September 02, 2019, 11:47:57 PM
Applauds
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Pete3206 on September 02, 2019, 11:56:16 PM
Applauds x 2
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: brian green on September 03, 2019, 07:20:09 AM
The best thing about the Herald was the centrefold pull out artwork of it in The Eagle.  I was a young student at Margaret St School of Art and we drooled over the brilliance of the draughtsmanship.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Drummond on September 03, 2019, 12:17:03 PM
The stag was nice though, i'm just a sucker for fins on cars.

(https://cdn.bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/5978f6f52a38d_S38_4069-940x599.jpg)

Me too.

I loved my Grandad's Humber Sceptre; unfortunately, when he passed away it went to another member of the family who let the thing rot in a field.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Humber_Sceptre_%283504596386%29.jpg/1280px-Humber_Sceptre_%283504596386%29.jpg)
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Brend'Watkins on September 03, 2019, 12:35:22 PM
Triumphs in general and especially The Stag were notorious for breaking down. However, not as bad as the TR7 which, if you mentioned the word cam belt you were going to be in trouble.
All great looking cars though.
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: wittonwarrior on September 04, 2019, 02:41:02 AM
Same branded stewards (Taurus Security) at  Salford tonight and one massive jobsworth who had a word in his ear from the supervising steward. 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: robbo1874 on September 04, 2019, 08:33:24 AM
If you're going to compare a dream machine like a Capri to an Escort, you deserve to be chinned.

Depends which Escort though, does it not? Some of them were quite pokey, even pre-Cosworth.

The Capri looked the part, no doubt. When I lived in the US in the 90's, I had a Firebird Formula. That was mighty perty and was pretty rapid also. Petrol (gas) prices were somewhat lower back then.
Ha! This tangent takes me back a few years to my first car (company vehicle) - a 1996 Escort LX 1.8 TD. Acceleration on it was mad (after the turbo lag) and we had it up to 130 on the M69 one night, before the limiter kicked in. I reckon it would’ve gone to 140+ without the limiter. Awesome car for a young chap around town. Brand new when I got it as well. A few early morning sausage and egg McMuffins at Heston Services soon sorted that out!! Good times
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: villa `cross the mersey on September 04, 2019, 08:41:59 AM
Same branded stewards (Taurus Security) at  Salford tonight and one massive jobsworth who had a word in his ear from the supervising steward. 
He was dressed as some kind of para military hardknock - an absolute twat 
Title: Re: Violent scenes
Post by: Hopadop on September 04, 2019, 02:00:26 PM
Different violence, but if anyone's interested judgment for the (refusal of leave to) appeal for one of the Cardiff supporters involved in the violent disorder in August 2017.

Here. (https://crimeline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/pleace2019ewcacrim1382.pdf)
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