Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: pauliewalnuts on March 11, 2019, 08:12:09 PM
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I saw this being discussed on that lot.com yesterday and thought it was an interesting question.
It has always been pretty horrible, but in recent years, has this hatred thing gone too far?
And if it has, is there anything that can be done about it, and if so, what is it and who would need to do it?
Can it be defused in any way?
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Aston Heath Alliance
only joking
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They have this massive monkey on their back that they will never be able to shift. And it’s always going to be something that eats away at them. They need to find a way to tone down their immense bitterness towards us. I doubt we’re perfect but fuck me they almost revel in this sense of being the downtrodden and forgotten “masses”. It starts with them in my opinion at all levels of the club.
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I think one of the big things ramping it up is that they just can't beat us. So every game winds them up more and more. 14 league games unbeaten in a derby game is a run that happens very rarely and usually it's because one side is massively better than the other and even then there's usually the odd 'underdog' result.
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Think it's getting as bad as 02/03 now.
Few years after in the prem things did calm down a bit.
Think them going now nearly a decade without beating us is really getting them frothing at the mouth although obviously not something I want changing anytime soon.
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Think it's getting as bad as 02/03 now.
Few years after in the prem things did calm down a bit.
Think them going now nearly a decade without beating us is really getting them frothing at the mouth although obviously not something I want changing anytime soon.
What year was the league cup kick-off? 2010?
That too was pretty fucking awful. Worse than 02/03. I remember we were working with a Spanish company on a project at the time, and a guy I dealt with there was well into his football, so most days we'd have a football related chat.
Trying to explain that to him was difficult.
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It’s entirely down to their doing. There can’t be a club anywhere else in the country (or even abroad) that is so obsessed with jealousy and hatred of their nearest neighbours than Small Heath are with Aston Villa. Nothing will change. We’re better off not playing them like what happened when they went on their 16 year tour of the lower leagues in ‘86 or whenever it was.
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My Dad moved to London in 1950s and watched Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. The fans of respective clubs were fanatics of their own club.
He moved up to the Midlands a few years later and watched Villa, Albion and Wolves who were fanatics of their own club. Blues were also fanatics. Fanatics about Villa, negatively.
That's a lot of years of reversal.
Talking to a Walsall fan today who went to QF FA Cup in 75 when he was about 11 or 12 - said has hated the ground ever since, some older Blues boyos tried to sniff him out but he'd done his homework beforehand on the ground.
We could start by not singing 'Shit on the City' which is feeble in every respect, and make sure none of our fans repeat what that twat did yesterday
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Yes, just get promoted. They won’t be following any time soon.
But seriously, they need a complete change in culture at the club, but they’re so desperate to hold on to whatever support they have they pander to their wanky elements.
It will never change. There’s more chance of them going bust first, fingers crossed.
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there’s a possibility we could meet them in a Wembley play off final
not a very big one admittedly but it is possible
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Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.
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Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.
Yes, agree, let's be honest, it isn't all one way.
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It’s killed them also that even during our recent downturn in luck and fortunes they still can’t beat us. And what put them over the edge is even when it was finally going to happen, when we were seemingly going under, we were sold to two legitimately filthy rich blokes. And you know if we get promoted and these two start lashing out hundreds of millions in transfers and wages all of this will get worse.
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You only have to look at some of them treat the Carr incident and how some of ours treat Dion's to realise the mentality you're dealing with, a mentality that I don't think will ever change. Let's be honest, while what happened yesterday was a step too far, stuff has been going on for decades.
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Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.
Yes, agree, let's be honest, it isn't all one way.
I do think too many sink to their level. And the amount of "Just been on their forums...." posts definitely doesn't help us have any moral high ground.
However their club definitely needs to have a look at itself from top to bottom. How many of our new players are told you must hate the blues? How many of our owners come in and state the aim is to finish above the bluenoses or lets get a better stadium then them or other such statements? How many of our club supporting journalists will tweet crap like "lets drop a weight on Grealish foot and break his toe" and then give a thumbs up to a fans follow up of "it is better dropped on his head"?
I can only really remember Olaf stating much about them and that was because he played in some of the matches and realised the hatred their fans were spewing.
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It’s the Brummie thing they go on about which really gets under their skin as well. The winning goals keep being scored by our homegrown Brummies.
It won’t change and they’ve just ramped it up a notch.
Personally I hadn’t been since the Enkleman game until yesterday because of their idiots, and nothing has really changed since then. I can’t see me going again.
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
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Us being where we are is what they dreamed of for decades, but all it has done is exploded more of their myths, our fans have still turned out in huge numbers despite our demise.
It fucking kills them.
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Although having said that, their forum has match threads. For our matches.
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They had a match thread for one of our games not too long ago that had more comments than the previous match thread for their own game had.
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That forum is a fair reflection of their club as a whole, as it's a poorly managed, disorganised rabble.
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Although having said that, their forum has match threads. For our matches.
And there you have it. You could have posted that right after your initial post and saved yourself the trouble of finding an answer to your question.
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We're not really helping ourselves by talking about a forum that's best ignored.
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
But we do have to talk about them, mainly because as the thread states, they are the gift that keeps on giving and is probably the second oldest active thread on the board. However I suspect that adding all the "other games" ones together would probably surpass it and I'm actually proud the biggest thread I'm aware of sounds like it should be about them but isn't. "Little things that annoy you" is definitely about several hundred larger.
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Think it's getting as bad as 02/03 now.
Few years after in the prem things did calm down a bit.
Think them going now nearly a decade without beating us is really getting them frothing at the mouth although obviously not something I want changing anytime soon.
What year was the league cup kick-off? 2010?
That too was pretty fucking awful. Worse than 02/03. I remember we were working with a Spanish company on a project at the time, and a guy I dealt with there was well into his football, so most days we'd have a football related chat.
Trying to explain that to him was difficult.
Yeah an anamoly game in that they actually beat us (I'd have traded that for about 5 of our victories against them since given they went on to win the cup) and also worse for the police in that it had to kick off in the evening. Oh and we also had a 5k allocation.
All adds more to hostile atmosphere than a Sunday lunchtime game should.
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There's a piece on this in the Graun which mentions drug use at matches. Anyone know if this is a thing?
"A minor point here, but it is perhaps worth noting the widespread use of recreational drugs at football. There are certain areas within certain grounds where the half-time toilets have an air of Freddie Mercury powder-party debauchery, just without the sense of glamour. Throw several thousand impressionable young men together, ramp up the ambient levels of rage; and yes, people are likely to start pushing the boundaries, busting in through the fourth wall, losing their sense of scale."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/mar/11/football-assault-aston-villa-jack-grealish (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/mar/11/football-assault-aston-villa-jack-grealish)
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A question to which I genuinely don't know the answer: are there any other towns or cities (or places with close geographical proximity) where there are two clubs with such a discrepancy of historical success? If so, is there also a similar toxic resentment from the poor relations towards their more successful neighbour?
I'm aware the Portsmouth/Southampton animosity has its roots in a dock strike, but even then I'm not sure in manages to generate the sheer venom of (some) Blues fans towards us.
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That place is consumed with hatred for the Villa from the very top to the very bottom and no-one connected with that club wants it any other way.So no they won't change whatever happens because if they lose that they have nothing.And they know it.
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It’s killed them also that even during our recent downturn in luck and fortunes they still can’t beat us. And what put them over the edge is even when it was finally going to happen, when we were seemingly going under, we were sold to two legitimately filthy rich blokes. And you know if we get promoted and these two start lashing out hundreds of millions in transfers and wages all of this will get worse.
Tough!!
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There's a piece on this in the Graun which mentions drug use at matches. Anyone know if this is a thing?
"A minor point here, but it is perhaps worth noting the widespread use of recreational drugs at football. There are certain areas within certain grounds where the half-time toilets have an air of Freddie Mercury powder-party debauchery, just without the sense of glamour. Throw several thousand impressionable young men together, ramp up the ambient levels of rage; and yes, people are likely to start pushing the boundaries, busting in through the fourth wall, losing their sense of scale."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/mar/11/football-assault-aston-villa-jack-grealish (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/mar/11/football-assault-aston-villa-jack-grealish)
It seems to be used more than when I was younger, it's certainly used more openly than back then. I even know some who go to non league football and take it.
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Yes it has gone too far and it could get even worse.
Yes our club can help but BCFC has to readically change it’s attitude towards us.
If they are prepared to continue to market thier brand as the Villa hating club then it will not get better.
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Let it go, we're Aston Villa, aim higher.
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It might help if Sky stop showing the Savage headbutt, the Enckleman mistake, the Gudjonsson tackle as if they are positive things to get stoked up about because they define the fixture. How about showing some of the more positive football that the fixture has seen.
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It might help if Sky stop showing the Savage headbutt, the Enckleman mistake, the Gudjonsson tackle as if they are positive things to get stoked up about because they define the fixture. How about showing some of the more positive football that the fixture has seen.
I wondered aloud yesterday if Sky were so outraged perhaps they'd consider in future not televising the fixture. The loss in TV money is tantamount to a fine, and it would clearly demonstrate a stand being taken.
I recognise both clubs would suffer but let's be honest we don't do too badly when it comes to our games getting picked for TV.
I also laughed at the idea because Sky and the media in general do faux outrage very well until there is even the slightest suggestion they may have played a small part. See Raheem Sterling.
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It has. It’s glorified in its presentation as well and that excarbates the problem.
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We could start by not singing 'Shit on the City' which is feeble in every respect, and make sure none of our fans repeat what that twat did yesterday
This. Honestly they are not our "rivals" they are just a small club in the city and by singing SOTC etc we give them a status they don't deserve. Just treat them like a little itch and ignore them.
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Whether Sky could do more, or the clubs could do more, or the FA could do more, or the stewarding could be improved it basically comes down to the individual having a bit more fucking self-control.
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The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.
If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.
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It might help if Sky stop showing the Savage headbutt, the Enckleman mistake, the Gudjonsson tackle as if they are positive things to get stoked up about because they define the fixture. How about showing some of the more positive football that the fixture has seen.
The trouble is that would be mostly our goals, and David Dunn falling over so would only rile them up more.
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It has gone too far but it would help if they weren't such a bunch of bastards
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The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.
If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.
They can’t give them something else to focus on as it will become apparent all too quickly even to that lot what a shitshow of a club they support. Far easier to take the road most traveled and stir up the anti Villa vibes.
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Opposites attract.
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The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.
If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.
The proper brummies stuff is risible.
We are the second city (still) and anyone that has any pride in that should realise the city is capable of having more than one team.
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The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.
If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.
The proper brummies stuff is risible.
We are the second city (still) and anyone that has any pride in that should realise the city is capable of having more than one team.
Does anyone know if the redscouse wind up the bluescouse with that "nameofthecity" bollocks? And where does that leave London? TBH I think they only use it as a wind up because they know they lied and cheated to get it supposedly which shows up the club over 80 years of "getting one over the Vile".
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My twopeneth is I'm afraid it's way to deeply ingrained into their DNA for them to be anything else. This mentality has been actively promoted bythe club since the Brady days. This also stuffs decent investors when looking at them IMO.
I'd love for this to change but it just won't, it's who they are. Without us they have nothing.
On the other hand we have an opportunity to assume even more moral high ground and stay there, become the fans we want to be and treat them as an irrelevance wherever possible when we're not playing them. All the chants about them should go unless we play them. Other than that we could always get promoted as if the owners spend big (which I think they would) we'll not be seeing them anytime soon.
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The point Bielsa made yesterday, about Grealish's assailant being more a product of a deeper frustration than an illustration of a football culture, has some wider relevance here. There has been precious little for Blues to crow about in recent years, not just in comparison to us either. They had their little top division adventure and won a cup, and that was supposed to be the starting point for the swing in their favour. But it stalled, they've sunk back into mediocrity and financial chaos, and now their fans need somebody to kick out at. We're it - even in our dark days we still look like we'll sort it out quicker than them.
If I was thinking of a way to stop it, the main solution would be to stop acting the underdog. All this "proper Brummies" nonsense which is promoted at a management level. Stop comparing yourself to the other and start acting like a separate entity. Give the supporters something else to concentrate on. Easier said than done, I suppose.
The proper brummies stuff is risible.
We are the second city (still) and anyone that has any pride in that should realise the city is capable of having more than one team.
Does anyone know if the redscouse wind up the bluescouse with that "nameofthecity" bollocks? And where does that leave London? TBH I think they only use it as a wind up because they know they lied and cheated to get it supposedly which shows up the club over 80 years of "getting one over the Vile".
Didnt the porno twins shoe horn the word London on the West Hams badge somewhere?
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Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.
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I’d be happy if we just never had to play them again.
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Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.
TBF both of the oppo teams did / do attract a massive amount of glory hunters with Everton and Citeh being mostly "local". However the latter with the money and success would be really hypocritcal to continue to use that jibe.
Our neighbours seem to think if you don't live 5 miles from the ground you are a glory hunter and don't come from the city even though I have never really heard of a Manc Claret or Cockney Villa.
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Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.
Man, you are going out of your way to wind up the resident Clyde fan.
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Just have the game at 3 on a Saturday. Take the mystique out of it, stop allowing sky to blow it up out of all proportion, ban the clockbait websites a week before the game, take Twitter down for two weeks before the game and you might just have a chance of taking the heat out of it.
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Everton and Man City fans do the same kind of thing about being the proper fans etc. Must be something about playing in blue and having more successful neighbours. Which also explains Scotland.
Man, you are going out of your way to wind up the resident Clyde fan.
*whistles innocently*
I love you really CD!! :-*
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
I really would like to see that thread liquidated.
And the Rags back in the third tier with no prospect of our paths crossing again any time soon.
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As the FA said, a line has been crossed. But it has been building up to it for years. . The Enckleman incident, the pitch invasion and flares, etc', plus the fact they now go into every game against us expecting to lose.
We have supporters who hate this game, imagine how they feel. Even when we have been at our lowest in years we still beat them. 2 weeks ago we all expected to lose this game, they must have thought it was their time.
It eats them up inside, this coupled with the fact that they have a reputation for hooliganism and the fans like to live up to it. How many other teams fans would wear a symbol sewed on to a jacket. Its all they have, they revel in the fact they top the arrests league.
They feel they have to continue being hooligans to save face.
I'm not sure they will ever change, it's in their mindset to hate us, with their constant SOTV sign offs, it is like they are trying to prove how big a fan they are by demonstrating how much they hate us.
I
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According to the DM:
"Birmingham's Second City derby with Aston Villa has become a clash of hooligans, hammers and bottles"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6796871/Birmingham-vs-Aston-Villa-derby-hooligans-hammers-bottles.html
Read the last paragraph if you don't have time to read all of it.
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I've taken one for you all so as you don't have to click the link
Derby clashes between Birmingham City and Aston Villa last season were marred by four pitch invasions by individual fans, police reports obtained by Sportsmail reveal.
As such, the attack on Aston Villa captain Jack Grealish by Birmingham fan Paul Mitchell should not have come as any great surprise to the clubs or the authorities.
Trouble at England's traditional derby matches has been on the rise, with police reports obtained through a Freedom of Information request by Sportsmail exposing a shocking catalogue of hooliganism.
Clashes between Birmingham and Villa fans were among the most violent. In October 2017, travelling Villa fans were 'picked off all over the place' following their match at Birmingham.
West Midlands Police's debrief also revealed that masked Birmingham fans attacked officers with metal brackets, scaffold poles, breeze blocks and glasses. One smashed a police carrier with a claw hammer. After a post-match probe, police made 44 further arrests.
When the teams met at Villa Park in February last year there were five arrests and 17 ejections from the stadium.
Details published for the first time on Tuesday reveal that the first sign of trouble came when a group of Birmingham fans identified as 'risk' groups 'attempted to board Aston-bound trains' for home fans, only to be thwarted by police spotters.
At the ground three fans were ejected for vandalising a toilet, while another was arrested after a 'steward was assaulted' in Holte Lower. The report said fans in the 'Holte Lower chose to stand despite repeated requests for them to desist', while ejections from the ground continued.
A second-half Villa goal saw a fan enter the field of play from 'the North Stand area'. He was detained before he reached the pitch and arrested. Two stewards were injured during the incident, one with a cut to the head, the other hurting a knee.
Two more home fans were arrested for entering the pitch side, but none got close to players or the away support. Another fan was arrested for throwing missiles at Birmingham fans.
After the game, 'baton strikes and strong verbal commands' were employed to keep rivals fans apart in the city. Punches and bottles were thrown.
When the two teams met at St Andrew's in October 2017, the problems were even more serious. Officers no doubt hoped the arrest of nine Villa fans the week before, for incidents around the Cardiff match, would ease the situation.
It began with verbal altercations on Coventry Road, with a mixture of 'risk groups' from Birmingham involved, and a fan was arrested by a coach park used by Villa supporters.
Birmingham placed 20,000 cardboard clappers on seats. 'These were thrown at every available opportunity during the game,' the report added. 'Every AVFC corner, free-kick and goal-kick saw numerous missiles thrown at the Villa player. These included plastic beer bottles, coins and clapper boards'.
The referee and the fourth official 'stopped the game on more than one occasion', with 'Villa players and the linesman all struck with various missiles'.
Coins were thrown between fans while 30 seats were broken in the away end, and at the final whistle a Birmingham fan 'ran the length of the pitch' before being arrested.
After the game the trouble escalated. A blue smoke bomb was let off and officers were peppered with coins. They also had 'bottles, glasses and bricks' thrown at them as they tried to disperse Birmingham fans near the coach park, with one spotter struck in the face in an incident that lasted 20 minutes.
With Villa fans still locked inside the stadium, police spotters were then confronted by 'masked males' throwing missiles at them, with metal brackets, scaffold poles, breeze blocks and glasses thrown. Officers deployed long shields to protect themselves, while the windscreen of a police carrier was 'smashed with a claw hammer'.
Villa fans were held in the ground for 90 minutes but officers reported that they were 'getting picked off all over the place' while returning to the city. The behaviour of Villa fans was described as 'exemplary'; Birmingham fans were 'exceedingly poor' - 'When they couldn't get to Villa fans they were all too happy to attack police officers using a very high level of force'.
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I'd say no. The pitch invasion was an isolated incident, but this has always been a powder keg fixture. The police do a very good job.
If you happen to read their forum you'll notice their mentality though. It's anti-Villa first, wrapped in a very fragile machismo. They're the biggest and meanest and everybody hates them. At least that's why they try and convince themselves every 5 minutes.
They have a thread now about the disorder I saw and strolled through on Fazely Street. Their machismo was challenged by 20-30 Vile on their patch...but now it's 20-30 Vile giving it to kids and women and children and orphans.
Reality is the only children being intimidated was a big Nose with his visibly distressed teenage daughter, who had to push his way passed some goon giving it the big one with his teenage kids.
The absolute shit house pushed the bloke and offered the guy out. This is the mentality you're dealing with.
(http://i.imgur.com/aR9GeCF.jpg) (http://imgur.com/aR9GeCF)
There you have it. 4 women and children dressed as 30 scruffy middle aged men and scrotes in moody gear, all convinced they're in the Peaky Blinders.
So because they've had their machismo undermined by da Vile, their identity is threatened. So they become defensive by myth making.
It litters their thinking. Violent disorder that goes against them spun to protect their image. But they propagate it through other means; chief being that they're special as they have the cities name (so what), they're proper Brummies (even those from Worcester), they're working class tough guys as a consequence. When you're so utterly inferior on the pitch, it's all they have.
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If you look on twitter its unbelievable some the stuff they come out with. Some of them are so bitter and have bought into the rubbish they spout about proper Brummies, name of the city, we all live in the shires, the Villa are just as bad etc etc that it's now become part of the belief system of some Blues fans.
It's like those Isis fighters that are surrendering in Syria where we dont know what to do with them. It's a similar mentality of hatred just this time it's about a football club.
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It has gone too far and something does need to be done but their hatred of all things Villa is too deeply ingrained for it to change anytime soon.
I know Noses that end texts with KRO SOTV and although they never go anywhere near the Sty they give it large whenever they see a Villa fan or anything to do with Villa.
My parents live near their training ground and there is a pretty horrible pub really close to it. One Saturday last season they were at home with a 3pm kick off and I took my mom and dad’s dog for a walk past the pub at around 3.30pm. There were about eight forty-something of them outside the pub all in blues shirts having a smoke and a drink whilst their team is playing at home about 6 miles away. They saw me in my Villa hoody and started to dish it out about me and Villa. It was pathetic, they looked ridiculous. Eight or so of them all old enough to know better shouting abuse at a bloke a few years older than them, I’m in my early 50’s. I just smiled at them, laughed and carried on walking the dog. I wasn’t intimidated at all, it was a laughable situation but I’m sure some would have been. Typical Noses giving out abuse on a match day from the safety of a crowd of mates none of whom had any intention of visiting the Sty that day.
So what do we do about it? We should ignore them and not feed their obsession any more. We should drop that SOTC song because it really does drop us to their level and we should rise above the vitriol because we are better than that. I’d rather hear songs that back the team anyway, not one that is against our rivals. I’d even lock the “gift that is still giving” thread on here. Let’s stop giving them the oxygen that feeds their obsession with us. Let’s keep all threads about Blues restricted to pre and post match threads plus any specifics such as the inevitable punishment that will come their way after Sunday. Now we have played them twice this season I don’t really think about them, they don’t define us in the way that we define them. We are Aston Villa.
It’s football, yes we love our club but we should take a stance against them and their ways. Some of our own supporters will need to tone it down next time we play them, but we support Aston Villa, we are better than that and should rise above it.
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Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.
Yes, agree, let's be honest, it isn't all one way.
I do think too many sink to their level. And the amount of "Just been on their forums...." posts definitely doesn't help us have any moral high ground.
However their club definitely needs to have a look at itself from top to bottom. How many of our new players are told you must hate the blues? How many of our owners come in and state the aim is to finish above the bluenoses or lets get a better stadium then them or other such statements? How many of our club supporting journalists will tweet crap like "lets drop a weight on Grealish foot and break his toe" and then give a thumbs up to a fans follow up of "it is better dropped on his head"?
I can only really remember Olaf stating much about them and that was because he played in some of the matches and realised the hatred their fans were spewing.
Who tweeted that about Grealish?
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Of course it's gone too far. A fan running onto the pitch and assaulting a player has no precedence as far as I can remember (though I'm sure its happened before somewhere / sometime). It has to be treated, by fans and the game, in such a way that limits the possibility of any recurrence, because the next escalation point is somebody getting maimed or worse.
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Villa dominate their club from top to bottom, until that changes I don't think much else will. Should be added that there's a fair few of ours now that seemed obsessed with them as well.
Yes, agree, let's be honest, it isn't all one way.
I do think too many sink to their level. And the amount of "Just been on their forums...." posts definitely doesn't help us have any moral high ground.
However their club definitely needs to have a look at itself from top to bottom. How many of our new players are told you must hate the blues? How many of our owners come in and state the aim is to finish above the bluenoses or lets get a better stadium then them or other such statements? How many of our club supporting journalists will tweet crap like "lets drop a weight on Grealish foot and break his toe" and then give a thumbs up to a fans follow up of "it is better dropped on his head"?
I can only really remember Olaf stating much about them and that was because he played in some of the matches and realised the hatred their fans were spewing.
Who tweeted that about Grealish?
Not on Twitter - however I’ll hazard a guess at some small minded twat(s)
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It was nose journalist who worked for Sky or ITV. Also said the issue is our superiority complex
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Chris Skudder, I and many others picked him up on it and he has now blocked me. I’m afraid he’s a bit of a twat it seems.
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Like so many other posters have said, it seems to be in the dna of the club, without the “Villa” stuff they have nothing else.
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they have a lot of supporters who buy into the hooligan Zulu side of the club
I don’t like tarring everyone with the same brush and clearly they have good decent supporters as well but they have more than most clubs a hooligan tendency which becomes part of there DNA
they are second only to Millwall in that respect
Neither club has much chance of any success neither have big fan bases or ground capacities but they do have an abundance of blokes who love the fact that they are seen as hard men and known
for causing trouble on occasion
Millwall have tried and have done more than most clubs to turn there reputation around only to find they are fighting a losing battle because the Millwall reputation is what a lot of the fans thrive on they live off there bad rep and it’s exactly the same at Blues
because of the reduced ticket allocation I haven’t been to Blues away for the last couple of seasons
I actually love this game, I love beating them I love the rivalry but not the violence in fact it’s the only away I go to not wearing colours because of the safety reasons
what can you do about it, not a lot in my view
it’s not gone to far it’s always been OTT
as long as I can remember right back in the 70’s it had gone to far then it just gets more attention now because of social media etc
I went to the game soon after Ron Saunders had joined them
as i entered the ground there was fans fighting all over the pitch before the game even started police horses the lot
so it’s always been the same in my time supporting Villa
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It's only a matter of time before the WMP instruct/ask the league for all away fans to be banned from these games. Not what I'm hoping for, far from it, but their antics are calling for something to be done - when it makes news across the whole world, then people will expect something like a ban to be enforced.
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It wasnt an away supporter than ran on the pitch. In fact I'd say away supporters in general are far less likely to go on the pitch in this fixture for fear of what would happen.
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villareport
@villareport
A member of Jack Grealish’s family was involved in a confrontation with relatives of pitch invader Paul Mitchell outside court today. [
@martinfricker
] #avfc
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I say the ball is very much in Blues court
They have encouraged a faux rivalry with us by engendering hatred. Number one they should promote the ending of the chant and tag Sotc. Difficult? Yes. Impossible? No.
It'll be a start, they need to get the young, next generation on-board now.
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It's always
they have a lot of supporters who buy into the hooligan Zulu side of the club
I don’t like tarring everyone with the same brush and clearly they have good decent supporters as well but they have more than most clubs a hooligan tendency which becomes part of there DNA
they are second only to Millwall in that respect
Neither club has much chance of any success neither have big fan bases or ground capacities but they do have an abundance of blokes who love the fact that they are seen as hard men and known
for causing trouble on occasion
Millwall have tried and have done more than most clubs to turn there reputation around only to find they are fighting a losing battle because the Millwall reputation is what a lot of the fans thrive on they live off there bad rep and it’s exactly the same at Blues
because of the reduced ticket allocation I haven’t been to Blues away for the last couple of seasons
I actually love this game, I love beating them I love the rivalry but not the violence in fact it’s the only away I go to not wearing colours because of the safety reasons
what can you do about it, not a lot in my view
it’s not gone to far it’s always been OTT
as long as I can remember right back in the 70’s it had gone to far then it just gets more attention now because of social media etc
I went to the game soon after Ron Saunders had joined them
as i entered the ground there was fans fighting all over the pitch before the game even started police horses the lot
so it’s always been the same in my time supporting Villa
That was a particularly bad game. While they seem to take it to another level, we have always had some that have reveled in this shit too. Remember in the 03.03 game the twat coming on and confronting Savage
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It has gone too far, and i fear that if enough is not done, the next person will cause injury.
The fact that Grealish continued on and scored the winner, will add fuel to their fire that "someone should do him in".
The 14 weeks jail time will be brushed off by some of them as a walk in the park.
Because they hate us so much, we are all they have, so making headlines against us will be treated as a victory.
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I can't stand derby days as there's always been a really nasty element to their support.
With that said, you've only got to look many of our fans in the lower north who like to spend the whole match looking at the opposition fans doing 'wanker' signs rather than watching the game to realise we have our fair share of bellends too. I have absolutely no doubt if a fan had run on and twatted Savage (or similar) there would have been a pretty loud cheer around Villa Park too.
I'm not saying we are as bad as them, I genuinely don't think we are. But like most clubs a minority of our fans are idiots too.
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Interesting take on the events by a student online paper
https://www.tcsnetwork.co.uk/a-tale-of-the-second-city-birmingham-city-v-aston-villa/
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Interesting take on the events by a student online paper
https://www.tcsnetwork.co.uk/a-tale-of-the-second-city-birmingham-city-v-aston-villa/
And what a pile of cliche-ridden bollocks it is.
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Aye, really poor. I suppose that’s what you get when bloggers get the same exposure as time served journalists.
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Interesting take on the events by a student online paper
https://www.tcsnetwork.co.uk/a-tale-of-the-second-city-birmingham-city-v-aston-villa/
And what a pile of cliche-ridden bollocks it is.
Indeed, utter drivel. My inner voice slipped into the Harry Enfield character Mr Cholmondley-Warner, the references were so lazy and dated.
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Whilst I feel sorry for any club tarnished by the behaviour of a small minority...
For the third consecutive year, more Birmingham City fans were arrested last season (95) than any other club in England's top five leagues.
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Re the Daily Mail article above, posted courtesy of PWS, Kingthing (who runs the SW London Lions) went to the away game last year with another lad from London.
After the game they were separated and made their way into town. The other lad was jumped on by a few noses, one of whom had a knife. He had the nous to stand at the entrance to a building with cctv and told them he wasn't moving and if they came closer they would be nailed on camera. Luckily for him after a while they gave up and moved on.
For me that incident sums up a sizeable minority of their support. My ex brother in law was a cop and used to work a lot of Midlands football form early 80s to the turn of the century. I remember him telling me about pockets of Villa fans being picked off by groups of Blues fans, but only when in larger numbers.
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
I really would like to see that thread liquidated.
And the Rags back in the third tier with no prospect of our paths crossing again any time soon.
Not sure them being in the third tier would be best for any of us.
Boss of Merc once said we he needed BMW because the competition they provided made their product much better.
Just look at the cities with two successful teams. It's well known that Birmingham, as a whole, has lower football attendances than Manchester, Liverpool or even possibly Sheffield.
I could argued that if SHA were to provide a better sporting contest, then we would be a more successful team.
The focus would be on the pitch rather than the terrace.
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My parents live near their training ground and there is a pretty horrible pub really close to it.
You'd be surprised how many Villa fans drinks in the Moon. ;)
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The Moon has always been a shithole. They used to train at Elmdon. The Clock was by there - not a great pub either.
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Their whole inferiority complex and sense of having to get one upmanship spreads throughout their fanbase though. I once recall having to be a witness to the signing of a contract between two businesses that were changing hands - this was a multi million pound acquisition. The guy who was selling and then becoming part of the new company's board gave me a 'SOTV' pen to sign with.
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The Moon has always been a shithole. They used to train at Elmdon. The Clock was by there - not a great pub either.
No atmosphere apparently
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I have a customer who lives by their training ground and his garden backs right up to the pitches with the goal posts not to far from his fence. He’s a plasterer by trade and I asked him if he wished he was a glazier when Jerome played for em.😀
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This did make me laugh to be fair.
Gary Rowett
12:13, Mon 11 Mar
What could Blues do before the game on Wednesday to show the football world that we’re sorry and offer a bit of solidarity to Villa?
I’m thinking we could get B25Dave, the Sikh guy from Blues4All and a local child to walk out before the game with a claret and blue flag encaptioned
‘We’re very very sorry Jack. All the best for the future’
Then there should be a minute’s applause.
And 10% of the gate receipts should go to Villas charity, Acorns
Thoughts?
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I do find it very odd that a fair few noses I know always sign off anything with ‘KRO SOTV’ on their Social Media posts, even if what they are saying has anything at all to do with football. Even if it is football related I find it odd that they have to share with the world their obsessional hatred towards us.
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I feel like it's a game we have more to lose than win. I suppose it's partly the nature of the derby, but I could quite happily not play them for a long time.
Let's hope we can go up and they can stay down here.
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
I really would like to see that thread liquidated.
And the Rags back in the third tier with no prospect of our paths crossing again any time soon.
Not sure them being in the third tier would be best for any of us.
Boss of Merc once said we he needed BMW because the competition they provided made their product much better.
Just look at the cities with two successful teams. It's well known that Birmingham, as a whole, has lower football attendances than Manchester, Liverpool or even possibly Sheffield.
I could argued that if SHA were to provide a better sporting contest, then we would be a more successful team.
The focus would be on the pitch rather than the terrace.
I don't buy that at all.
We didn't have problems pushing for the league title twice in the early 90s when they were scrambling about in the lower divisions.
Sadly, since 2002, too many of our lot will wear being mid table in the top flight (or even this poxy division) if it means beating that lot twice a season. Sets the bar really high.
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If your club hasn't got a pot to piss in, there's no realistic prospect of promotion any time soon and the chance of silverware virtually nil then we're all they've got. And when we get promoted they won't even have that. But it's not all one way: we do go on about them a lot. The Blues thread in Other Football must be one of the longest threads on this website; I know it's 10 years old but still.
I really would like to see that thread liquidated.
And the Rags back in the third tier with no prospect of our paths crossing again any time soon.
Not sure them being in the third tier would be best for any of us.
Boss of Merc once said we he needed BMW because the competition they provided made their product much better.
Just look at the cities with two successful teams. It's well known that Birmingham, as a whole, has lower football attendances than Manchester, Liverpool or even possibly Sheffield.
I could argued that if SHA were to provide a better sporting contest, then we would be a more successful team.
The focus would be on the pitch rather than the terrace.
I don't buy that at all.
We didn't have problems pushing for the league title twice in the early 90s when they were scrambling about in the lower divisions.
Sadly, since 2002, too many of our lot will wear being mid table in the top flight (or even this poxy division) if it means beating that lot twice a season. Sets the bar really high.
Didn’t seem to bother Man U during the years Man C were missing either!
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This did make me laugh to be fair.
Gary Rowett
12:13, Mon 11 Mar
What could Blues do before the game on Wednesday to show the football world that we’re sorry and offer a bit of solidarity to Villa?
I’m thinking we could get B25Dave, the Sikh guy from Blues4All and a local child to walk out before the game with a claret and blue flag encaptioned
‘We’re very very sorry Jack. All the best for the future’
Then there should be a minute’s applause.
And 10% of the gate receipts should go to Villas charity, Acorns
Thoughts?
Close the club down?
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But Kevin, what would we have to laugh at if that happened?
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But Kevin, what would we have to laugh at if that happened?
Er, Wolves,Baggies,Coventry. Liverpool's title quest. People falling over and Derry Girls.
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Whilst I feel sorry for any club tarnished by the behaviour of a small minority...
For the third consecutive year, more Birmingham City fans were arrested last season (95) than any other club in England's top five leagues.
Thats half the problem - “Small minority” is more like “Sizeable majority” from what I ever see of them in whatever sphere you meet them. And yes I have been to their hovel on more than one occasion, some of them are genuinely disturbed people.
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The rivalry is ridiculous. But noses I know apart from my best mate who has always been a decent bloke act like something alien. A Bloke who is a contractor at work refuses to talk to me except to take piss about the villa because he is a nose. Another one feels like it’s ok to sign sign off sheets kro sotv, because I’m a villa fan. It’s like it’s all they have to divert attention away from how shit their fortune is is to loath what we are but it’s all like playground stuff . I have baggies mates and wolves mates and there is banter but my best mate aside I’ve never known such ingrained hatred except from the noses. Most of my family are noses and I would have joined them was it not from my uncle and my mom who were villains so I have no ill will towards blues fans or even to the club as I would rather local teams be supported. But their irrational hatred, clinging on to true brummies are Birmingham fans (despite Solihull not being in Birmingham) etc etc is bullshit and a badge of underdog pride. I feel a significant proportion of their number welcome their underdog status and use it to act like they do without ever wanting more from their team, even accepting the dross they have had to put up with. We have idiots in our number who stir shit and whilst I’m not a regular at games, I hate when we sing about them be it the city is ours or shit on the city as to me we are above that and makes us come down to their level. Is it jealousy or just hatred? But I never react to a blue nose in the way they react to me. To me, let them get on with their petty hatred and rise above it all as they really are not worth the effort
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I have a customer who lives by their training ground and his garden backs right up to the pitches with the goal posts not to far from his fence.
Bielsa?
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Fair point wince, but I hate the way they make me feel, all there bull, does get me, it shouldn’t, but it does. However I wouldn’t run on the pitch and assault a blues player. I’m not at there level, but I hope we get promoted, they get relegated, and we never play them again. I went on Sunday, and have been there a few times, but if we have to play them next season, I will pass
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I’ve got to admit I didn’t even watch the game live on Sunday because they just wind me up. So yes, it probably has gone too far.
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Fair point wince, but I hate the way they make me feel, all there bull, does get me, it shouldn’t, but it does. However I wouldn’t run on the pitch and assault a blues player. I’m not at there level, but I hope we get promoted, they get relegated, and we never play them again. I went on Sunday, and have been there a few times, but if we have to play them next season, I will pass
Same here but to me we are a class above them and always will be. I rise above it all as no matter my dislike for them, my love of the villa is worth more and I pity their fans as it seems their hatred for us is all they have. As I said, I’m not a regular at games for financial reasons but my uncle a die hard villain would never go back after being bottled on leaving St. Andrews so I’ve no intention of going to the local derby that needs all the hype removed from it. I would rather we never played them again as to me it brings no joy despite our record against them.
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We rightly look down on them as they're the ginger stepchild of Midlands football, but let's not pretend we don't have some right tits following us as well. I'll bet anything innocent sha fans were injured outside the away end with what was thrown towards it on 030303, plenty cheered the tool going on the pitch that night, plenty cheered Dion and still think he's a hero, same as the nose being bounced down the steps of the Upper Witton that night is treated as funny. It was our fans trying to get through the segregation door and shutters for the LC game (I think it was). Our fans in court not long ago for Cardiff away. We had someone arrested in The Holte recently for carrying a big knife and some coke, our fans threatening the families of Mitchell and Perkins, the Cisse and Andrews songs. Just a few examples.
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Barrington Patterson (ex-Zulu) has had that Alfie kid out tonight and last night doing volunteer work for a homeless outreach charity.
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When their supporters and staff are assulting our players, let alone the cloggers on the pitch, then yes its gone too far.
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I'll tell you what it's all about shall I?
I grew up in Sheldon, I drank with 'noses for years. But don't think they wouldn't have turned on me in a trice.
I remember a lad coming into the pub, playing pool in a Villa shirt and being told to leave in no uncertain terms.
We watched England but all you heard was SOTV and the end result was a fan glassed.
A stag do to the Black Country, populated by many lads I went to school with resulting in a constant barage of anti Villa abuse, waiting for that one bite excusing a violent response.
The lead singer of a UB40 tribute doing the same last year in my local, all mouth and "banter".
I live in the Black Country now, these Dogheads and Sandwell fans are no angels but fuck me they will never be as feral, violent, and vicious as the 'Noses.
I went to Cheltenham today with an Albion fan who said his Dad would never talk to him again if he pulled a stunt like the one we saw on Sunday. But for them it's handed down through generations.
That's what it's all about and that's why Sunday didn't surprise me, they glory in it.
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When my brother got married the bride’s family were noses. Bearing in mind my brother doesn’t even like football, her half brothers turned up at the Reception in Hawaiian shirts to celebrate their five-oh aggregate result against us.
One of them, who I’d never met in my life, introduced himself as ‘5-0, six points.’ It was utterly bizarre.
Thankfully they subsequently got divorced and she’s now shacked up with another woman, but I digress.
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Slightly tangental this, but am going to put it out there anyway in the hop it will have an impact.
I live in Penwortham, a small town just north of Preston. This week I had the shocking news that a family friend died in a plane crash in Ethiopia. He was only 25 and was working for an aid agency travelling to Nairobi for an international aid conference.
This Saturday there will be a tribute to Sam, who was a livelong PNE fan. I hope these cretins follow the minutes silence (even Blackpool fans have been great about this) but I have no confidence the morons in their away support will.
I watch probably more PNE games than Villa these days, and will be there. I will report on how it goes. RIP Sam, a wonderful person that dedicated his short life to helping others.
https://twitter.com/leponline/status/1105540209557626881
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Slightly tangental this, but am going to put it out there anyway in the hop it will have an impact.
I live in Penwortham, a small town just north of Preston. This week I had the shocking news that a family friend died in a plane crash in Ethiopia. He was only 25 and was working for an aid agency travelling to Nairobi for an international aid conference.
This Saturday there will be a tribute to Sam, who was a livelong PNE fan. I hope these cretins follow the minutes silence (even Blackpool fans have been great about this) but I have no confidence the morons in their away support will.
I watch probably more PNE games than Villa these days, and will be there. I will report on how it goes. RIP Sam, a wonderful person that dedicated his short life to helping others.
https://twitter.com/leponline/status/1105540209557626881
So sorry for your loss pal. Been reading about this crash all week. Some things are bigger than football and I hope that they observe the silence
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I reckon they will.
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I reckon they will.
So do I.
The rivalry has gone too far. I grew up in Shard End/ Chelmesley wood / Shirley and most of my mates at school were Blues fans. Most were OK. My dad is Villa but grew up in Small Heath. My Grandad supported Blues but my other one supported Villa (glad I took the right path). I see some of the comments on here and cringe. We are all Brummies and have more in common than not.
I just hope there are no knobheads at the PNE Blues game.
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there’s a possibility we could meet them in a Wembley play off final
not a very big one admittedly but it is possible
I'll take that all day long...
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there’s a possibility we could meet them in a Wembley play off final
not a very big one admittedly but it is possible
If we get to playoff final a small club like Blues would be nice as we can have more of a ticket allocation.
I'll take that all day long...
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there’s a possibility we could meet them in a Wembley play off final
not a very big one admittedly but it is possible
I'll take that all day long...
If we get to playoff final a small club like Blues would be nice as we can have more of a ticket allocation.
Absolutely. Do you think they would use clappers like Fulham?
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I doubt they'd sell out their allocation.
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there’s a possibility we could meet them in a Wembley play off final
not a very big one admittedly but it is possible
I'll take that all day long...
If we get to playoff final a small club like Blues would be nice as we can have more of a ticket allocation.
Absolutely. Do you think they would use clappers like Fulham they did against us in October 2017?
FTFY