Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: kippaxvilla2 on October 06, 2018, 06:50:19 PM
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One game in latest spell, one defeat. MacDonald out.
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See I see what you did there...
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
And, knowing you're going to get dumped as soon as the owners can find a 'proper' manager.
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Yeah it's a hiding to nothing. Don't get me wrong I got grumpy with him 2nd half and turned the South London air blue.
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
And, knowing you're going to get dumped as soon as the owners can find a 'proper' manager.
He’s just filling a gap. I bet he can’t wait to get back to the U23s
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
Don’t worry I don’t think he’ll ever ask you out on a date
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
I saw Stoke and Bolton under him aswell in 10/11, that Stoke game we should've been 5-0 up at half time but predictably lost it in the last minute.
I think the whole vibe was just to get this game over with and with that mentality I expected a defeat as he knows he has no chance of getting the job full time unlike his 2010 spell where he could well have got it if Newcastle 6-0 didn't happen.
Next time we change manager I'd like to see Delaney step in for a few games.
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
Done good work with our youth down the years. Many praised him in later interviews. The recent bullying allegations were uncomfortable though.
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
Don’t worry I don’t think he’ll ever ask you out on a date
Good job really, dull blokes with a wiff of bullying are not really my type.
Agree he seems to have done very good work down the years with the youth Soccer, but he is part of a setup that still does not bring enough through from very promising to first team IMO, especially when you look at how many are playing well for other teams. There seems to be a step missing in our youth programme that prevents some from fulfilling their potential here.
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
Don’t worry I don’t think he’ll ever ask you out on a date
Good job really, dull blokes with a wiff of bullying are not really my type.
Agree he seems to have done very good work down the years with the youth Soccer, but he is part of a setup that still does not bring enough through from very promising to first team IMO, especially when you look at how many are playing well for other teams. There seems to be a step missing in our youth programme that prevents some from fulfilling their potential here.
Many but his job really is to funnel them from youth to first team as he's done with Fonz, Weimann, Bannan. Gabby, Cahill, Davis Albrighton in recent times.
First team manager at the times far more culpable for either overplaying them or not giving them the right conditions to excel.
Same thing for example happened with the bizzare way O'Hare has been handled in last year. Why has he not gone out on loan? Imagine for example Mac pushing for a loan spell and SB saying we need to keep him around in case we get 5 injuries in midfield or something. Who's to blame in that situation as 12 month later we're no closer to finding out if O'Hare is going to be a good player for us or not.
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He's very uninspiring though. Something about him I don't really like.
Don’t worry I don’t think he’ll ever ask you out on a date
Good job really, dull blokes with a wiff of bullying are not really my type.
Agree he seems to have done very good work down the years with the youth Soccer, but he is part of a setup that still does not bring enough through from very promising to first team IMO, especially when you look at how many are playing well for other teams. There seems to be a step missing in our youth programme that prevents some from fulfilling their potential here.
The fact that players he’s brought through thrive away from Villa Park is not a damning endictement of him, it’s the failure of first team management over the years
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
I saw Stoke and Bolton under him aswell in 10/11, that Stoke game we should've been 5-0 up at half time but predictably lost it in the last minute.
I think the whole vibe was just to get this game over with and with that mentality I expected a defeat as he knows he has no chance of getting the job full time unlike his 2010 spell where he could well have got it if Newcastle 6-0 didn't happen.
Next time we change manager I'd like to see Delaney step in for a few games.
I'd forgot he Bolton game. Stoke was where Pulis turned up at half time. I can't recall if we had Houillier by then though.
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I think it is both actually. I see the point you are both making, and agree to an extent, but if the players seem to flourish at an older age for some reason. I think it is a more complex thing than just the manager or just MacDonald, but I would argue both are responsible, and there needs to be more consideration of how so many have found it easier to fulfil their potential away from Villa.
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I've seen from him;
West Ham home - excellent
Vienna away - Decent
Newcastle away - fucking shite
Everton at home - nervous
Vienna at home - mince
Southampton away - Zzzzz and crazy selection
Tottenham away - What the actual fuck was that selection
Millwall - fucking shite
In fairness it's not his fault. Imagine being asked at work to do a job way beyond your capabilities, that you've neither asked to do nor want to do.
I saw Stoke and Bolton under him aswell in 10/11, that Stoke game we should've been 5-0 up at half time but predictably lost it in the last minute.
I think the whole vibe was just to get this game over with and with that mentality I expected a defeat as he knows he has no chance of getting the job full time unlike his 2010 spell where he could well have got it if Newcastle 6-0 didn't happen.
Next time we change manager I'd like to see Delaney step in for a few games.
I'd forgot he Bolton game. Stoke was where Pulis turned up at half time. I can't recall if we had Houillier by then though.
Before, Stoke was a Monday night game 5 days before Bolton.
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I'd have given the gig to Delaney today.Same old shit ,different Muppet
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We may as well have put HDE in charge today. MacDonald is a complete waste of time.
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Hopefully he will not go back to U23s and will be moved on to pastures new under the new regime. He is part of the problem the malaise this club has been in for a while now.
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Get the feeling he's got a job for life here unless a proper review of the club from the new board comes back with must do better for the Youth team.
Did actually forget he was a manage for a short while, Swindon in 2013 but only lasted a couple of months after they lost in the play offs.
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How did he come back was he loaned to Swindon?
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Get the feeling he's got a job for life here unless a proper review of the club from the new board comes back with must do better for the Youth team.
Did actually forget he was a manage for a short while, Swindon in 2013 but only lasted a couple of months after they lost in the play offs.
Must do better? Doesn't he run the academy pipeline that culminated in an 8-0 win last night?
If anything should be addressed, it's why there's such little transition from academy to first team. I look forward to a time when we're not constantly firefighting and can give a few a bit more game time.
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Needs to be a total review of the club from top to bottom. Why with so many good young players in the under 23 set up do so few break into the first team? Why in the past have so many moved on a realised there potential. It isnt just under Bruce.
In the last decade, only Houllier has even remotely looked like being able to bring through younger players.
We're an analogue club, trying to function in a digital eta.
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Vile man (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/07/aston-villa-academy-evidence-bullying-fa-kevin-macdonald) as well as being a shit caretaker manager.
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Get the feeling he's got a job for life here unless a proper review of the club from the new board comes back with must do better for the Youth team.
Did actually forget he was a manage for a short while, Swindon in 2013 but only lasted a couple of months after they lost in the play offs.
Must do better? Doesn't he run the academy pipeline that culminated in an 8-0 win last night?
If anything should be addressed, it's why there's such little transition from academy to first team. I look forward to a time when we're not constantly firefighting and can give a few a bit more game time.
The U23s is all down to Mark Delaney.
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He (in my opinion) virtually sabotaged a game against spurs to spite his employers. The employers who have paid handsome wages to him for many years. Add to that he is as dull as dishwater he should go in any new structure.
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Vile man (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/07/aston-villa-academy-evidence-bullying-fa-kevin-macdonald) as well as being a shit caretaker manager.
Now is he even still at the club after that report back in the day.
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Awful in all respects. Needs to receive his p45
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He could have said no when asked and suggested Delaney
Why was he even asked in the first place?
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I don't like the bloke at all
hope that's the end of him managing the first team
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he ?and also managed Forest for a spell.
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he?
i think that ship has passed a long time ago given his age. He does his job whatever that is, and obviously it wasn't just Bruce that rated him doing it seeing he's been here since Houllier. If people think he's shit at that, then that's fair comment, but he was asked to fill a vacuum for 1 game and take over a team in real trouble. I wasn't expecting him to perform a miracle personally
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he ?and also managed Forest for a spell.
Don't believe he ever wanted the job here. 2010, we just took forever to get Houllier in place.
I believe it whetted his appetite, which was why he went to Swindon. He wasn't cut out for it, he came back.
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he?
i think that ship has passed a long time ago given his age. He does his job whatever that is, and obviously it wasn't just Bruce that rated him doing it seeing he's been here since Houllier. If people think he's shit at that, then that's fair comment, but he was asked to fill a vacuum for 1 game and take over a team in real trouble. I wasn't expecting him to perform a miracle personally
Exactly! We all knew what would be served up on Saturday with him on charge. So why not give the gig to Delaney,absolutely no thought as usual and 3 points squandered
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he?
i think that ship has passed a long time ago given his age. He does his job whatever that is, and obviously it wasn't just Bruce that rated him doing it seeing he's been here since Houllier. If people think he's shit at that, then that's fair comment, but he was asked to fill a vacuum for 1 game and take over a team in real trouble. I wasn't expecting him to perform a miracle personally
Longer than Houllier, he's been with us since '95.
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he?
i think that ship has passed a long time ago given his age. He does his job whatever that is, and obviously it wasn't just Bruce that rated him doing it seeing he's been here since Houllier. If people think he's shit at that, then that's fair comment, but he was asked to fill a vacuum for 1 game and take over a team in real trouble. I wasn't expecting him to perform a miracle personally
Longer than Houllier, he's been with us since '95.
yeah realised afterwards. He's just a long-term employee picking up the pieces in the absence of anyone above him, no more no less, so i don't get the venom aimed in his direction really. Only real person to blame for yesterday is Bruce
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I doubt any of our first team lovies will have shown any respect to KM. He isn’t the one to read the riot act and the players know he will be back in the u23’S within a fortnight
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Get the feeling he's got a job for life here unless a proper review of the club from the new board comes back with must do better for the Youth team.
Did actually forget he was a manage for a short while, Swindon in 2013 but only lasted a couple of months after they lost in the play offs.
Must do better? Doesn't he run the academy pipeline that culminated in an 8-0 win last night?
If anything should be addressed, it's why there's such little transition from academy to first team. I look forward to a time when we're not constantly firefighting and can give a few a bit more game time.
Youth isn't just all about results, board will probably be asking why likes of O'Hare are on the fringe and not loaned out.
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He (in my opinion) virtually sabotaged a game against spurs to spite his employers. The employers who have paid handsome wages to him for many years. Add to that he is as dull as dishwater he should go in any new structure.
Why would he spite Lerner who gave him a job back here after they sacked Sherwood? I just think he (wrongly) concluded our awful start to the season was down to the French/African players upsetting the homeboys as we saw by him dropping Amavi and Gana completely from the 18 which was ridiculous as those were two of our better performers at the time.
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Think people are being a bit harsh really. He was asked to do the job but he's not a manager and doesn't pretend or want to be one. He tried to shuffle the pack in defence but its hard enough trying to get a half decent defence with chester available let alone without him - i certainly couldn't have come up with one. The new guy is going to have exactly the same problems
He applied for the job in the past didn’t he ?and also managed Forest for a spell.
He was umming and rrring about the job in 2010. I think at the time the board would've probably given it to him considering how good we were v West Ham in that first game but he was reluctant even in interviews afterwards and then the disaster afterwards at Newcastle ended that thought.
8 years ago now and the thought of him taking it full time now would be laughable.
If anything I wish we'd had someone ready to take over from SB on Wednesday evening. In our position we can ill afford to just write off games.
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By picking the side he did yesterday, it highlights the negativity and defence mindedness that seems to run through the club at senior level. Mark Delaney seems to be bucking the trend with the u-23's, long may that continue. I think Sherwood would have at least tried to win the game. We sooo need to change our thought processes and become winners.
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He had nothing to lose yesterday and starting with the press conference you could just tell he couldn't be arsed. The comment about his mates getting fired boiled my piss too. I hope he is gone very soon.
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He had nothing to lose yesterday and starting with the press conference you could just tell he couldn't be arsed. The comment about his mates getting fired boiled my piss too. I hope he is gone very soon.
That is exactly the reason why he should get the sack!
If you can't be arsed, don't do the job in the first place, get someone who gives a toss and is passionate enough to actually want to do the job even if it is only for one match!
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Mac's presser was a carbon copy of his game against Spurs (The infamous Gabby 8 touch game). He stuck two fingers up at the club who pay his wages to score points for his mates.
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Mac's presser was a carbon copy of his game against Spurs (The infamous Gabby 8 touch game). He stuck two fingers up at the club who pay his wages to score points for his mates.
At least he got some points for somebody then. ;)
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Either lead follow or get out of the god damn way.
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“He said to me he might go and watch the cricket in the Caribbean over the winter. He can afford it!”
Nice.
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He has taken us as far as he can.
No promotion, no FA Cup or League Cup runs, he has to go.
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K Mac gone after new bullying claims!
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Correction: suspended, but I doubt he'll be back.....
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Aston Villa have suspended their long-serving youth coach Kevin MacDonald from working with players, after a former graduate of the club, Gareth Farrelly, came forward to tell the Guardian about his claims of relentless bullying from MacDonald in the mid-1990s.
Farrelly accused the coach of “incredibly aggressive, constant verbal and physical bullying” and said it “took me to a place at 20 that nobody should have to go to. And I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.”
Gareth Farrelly: ‘It was a toxic, bullying culture for young players at Aston Villa’
Read more
After receiving questions from the Guardian and notification of Farrelly’s recollections this week, the club informed the local authority designated officer, the Football Association and EFL, and started an independent investigation, led by a barrister, into the bullying allegations.
Farrelly, who moved from his home in Dublin aged 17 to sign a professional contract with the Midlands club in 1992 and played in midfield in the Premier League for Villa, Everton and Bolton Wanderers, said MacDonald belittled him and scoffed at his achievements, undermining his confidence and giving negative reports of his performances to the then Villa manager, Brian Little.
Now working as a solicitor having qualified this year, Farrelly remembers his time as a young player at Villa as a constant battle to deal with bullying. The effort to fight back and achieve his ambitions made him mentally and physically exhausted, he said in an interview with the Guardian, and left him in “extremely dark places”, feeling depressed and with suicidal thoughts.
He believes of MacDonald: “I say, and I maintain this position, that his regime destroyed far more kids than he ever developed … If people had been treated better, fairly, you can’t say they would definitely have made it but they would have had an opportunity to develop and kick on more.”
He was prompted to tell his story publicly after reading that only last year, around 20 years later, a Premier League investigation found MacDonald guilty of bullying a young Villa player in 2015 and 2016, yet MacDonald was allowed to continue at the club in a new role as the Under-23 coach. The player’s father had complained repeatedly to Villa that his son was beginning to show signs of depression because of bullying and emotional abuse by MacDonald.
“I could not believe the role he still occupies,” Farrelly said of discovering the findings of the Premier League investigation last year, which found the club did not carry out an adequate inquiry into the complaints. The league insisted on changes to practices at the Villa academy but MacDonald was left in place and moved to coach a higher age group. Villa were accused by the young player’s father and others of having a toxic culture in their academy but the club rejected that view and said MacDonald had a strong record of bringing players through to the first team.
Farrelly, who won six caps for the Republic of Ireland, said he can be considered a player who came through at Villa, but he rejects any presumption that it was because of MacDonald’s coaching. Looking back, he believes he did not fulfil the potential he had at 17, with many talented players in the same age groups as him at the club never making it as professionals.
“You have the period that I was there, in the mid-1990s, which was a bullying culture for the young players, then 20-25 years later, that has continued and this person is still there,” he said. “And then there is a finding of bullying but they left him in place – I struggle to process that.”
The Guardian contacted Villa to ask for its response to Farrelly’s recollections. In a statement the club responded: “The club referred these allegations immediately to its local authority and the football authorities, and with their agreement has commissioned an independent investigation into the former player’s complaints. That investigation will commence immediately and as a neutral act Kevin has been temporarily reassigned to non-player-facing duties pending completion of the investigation.”
The club said MacDonald had been instructed not to comment on the allegations of bullying, pending the outcome of the investigation.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/13/aston-villa-remove-kevin-macdonald-coaching-new-bullying-claims-gareth-farrelly
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Aston Villa have suspended their long-serving youth coach Kevin MacDonald from working with players, after a former graduate of the club, Gareth Farrelly, came forward to tell the Guardian about his claims of relentless bullying from MacDonald in the mid-1990s.
Farrelly accused the coach of “incredibly aggressive, constant verbal and physical bullying” and said it “took me to a place at 20 that nobody should have to go to. And I wouldn’t wish it on anybody.”
Gareth Farrelly: ‘It was a toxic, bullying culture for young players at Aston Villa’
Read more
After receiving questions from the Guardian and notification of Farrelly’s recollections this week, the club informed the local authority designated officer, the Football Association and EFL, and started an independent investigation, led by a barrister, into the bullying allegations.
Farrelly, who moved from his home in Dublin aged 17 to sign a professional contract with the Midlands club in 1992 and played in midfield in the Premier League for Villa, Everton and Bolton Wanderers, said MacDonald belittled him and scoffed at his achievements, undermining his confidence and giving negative reports of his performances to the then Villa manager, Brian Little.
Now working as a solicitor having qualified this year, Farrelly remembers his time as a young player at Villa as a constant battle to deal with bullying. The effort to fight back and achieve his ambitions made him mentally and physically exhausted, he said in an interview with the Guardian, and left him in “extremely dark places”, feeling depressed and with suicidal thoughts.
He believes of MacDonald: “I say, and I maintain this position, that his regime destroyed far more kids than he ever developed … If people had been treated better, fairly, you can’t say they would definitely have made it but they would have had an opportunity to develop and kick on more.”
He was prompted to tell his story publicly after reading that only last year, around 20 years later, a Premier League investigation found MacDonald guilty of bullying a young Villa player in 2015 and 2016, yet MacDonald was allowed to continue at the club in a new role as the Under-23 coach. The player’s father had complained repeatedly to Villa that his son was beginning to show signs of depression because of bullying and emotional abuse by MacDonald.
“I could not believe the role he still occupies,” Farrelly said of discovering the findings of the Premier League investigation last year, which found the club did not carry out an adequate inquiry into the complaints. The league insisted on changes to practices at the Villa academy but MacDonald was left in place and moved to coach a higher age group. Villa were accused by the young player’s father and others of having a toxic culture in their academy but the club rejected that view and said MacDonald had a strong record of bringing players through to the first team.
Farrelly, who won six caps for the Republic of Ireland, said he can be considered a player who came through at Villa, but he rejects any presumption that it was because of MacDonald’s coaching. Looking back, he believes he did not fulfil the potential he had at 17, with many talented players in the same age groups as him at the club never making it as professionals.
“You have the period that I was there, in the mid-1990s, which was a bullying culture for the young players, then 20-25 years later, that has continued and this person is still there,” he said. “And then there is a finding of bullying but they left him in place – I struggle to process that.”
The Guardian contacted Villa to ask for its response to Farrelly’s recollections. In a statement the club responded: “The club referred these allegations immediately to its local authority and the football authorities, and with their agreement has commissioned an independent investigation into the former player’s complaints. That investigation will commence immediately and as a neutral act Kevin has been temporarily reassigned to non-player-facing duties pending completion of the investigation.”
The club said MacDonald had been instructed not to comment on the allegations of bullying, pending the outcome of the investigation.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/13/aston-villa-remove-kevin-macdonald-coaching-new-bullying-claims-gareth-farrelly
Probably no surprise as we have heard enough of his disciplined approach, and enough have said they benefitted from the discipline, so was Gareth just too weak?!? Be interesting to see if others pipe up now
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“It was a culture of verbal and physical bullying, but there were no checks and balances; he operated with impunity … It was like a dark shadow came over.”
It was a “relentlessly negative” regime under him.
“He would say: ‘You think you’re a fucking player? You’re not a fucking player. You’ve got fucking no chance.’ He would be calling players ‘******’ all the time; crazy stuff when you think about the role of responsibility he operated in.”
There was also physical aggression in training; sometimes MacDonald would join in and become confrontational, Farrelly recalls, kicking the young players. “In training it wasn’t unusual for people to end up squaring up to him, games would have to be stopped. It became normal. People were lucky not to have their legs broken. Every day you’d go into work, put your boots on, and think: ‘Here it comes again’. It took a huge toll.”
When he returned from one tournament, the summer US Cup, he remembers MacDonald sneering: “I hope you don’t think you’re a player now; those fucking Mickey Mouse caps you’ve got.”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/13/gareth-farrelly-bullying-aston-villa-kevin-macdonald
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This confirms what most of us suspected - he’s a wanker and I’m glad we’ll never have to endure him at our club again.
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jwarry, it's irrelevant whether others 'pipe up now'. Farrelly has, and even if he's the only one if what he says is found to be true it's shameful. He's certainly not 'too weak', far from it. He's not to blame for this.
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Well if true let’s hope he never works in football again. Or indeed in any industry for that matter.
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What a big man. Glad to see the back of him.
C**t.
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I think Kevin Mac has been credited with successes that were more influenced by other people at the Club.
He was in effect the reserve Team manager and as far as I am aware not involved with the Recruitment or training of the Academy players.
The Youth Team was managed by Tony McAndrew who was a fantastic coach and although a no nonsense type of guy as far as I am aware no one had any issues with him.
The Academy Boss was Bryan Jones and He was the one that recruited Gabby, Cahill, Steven Davis, Bannon, Hogg, Fonz, Allbrighton, Baker, Ridgewell, Luke and Stefen Moore up to Grealish and then Tony Mac took them over at U18s level.
KM was always Mr Angry in the Dugout and it tickled me when He became First Team caretaker manager how many fans at the time were saying what a nice bloke He was.
I didn't ever like him much but I must admit it was amusing listening to him berate the players if you could ever get close enough to hear.
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Yep would imagine that's the end of him here. Been a good servant but these frequent bullying claims means in the modern era it's untenable for him to continue.
Next time there's a change of manager (hopefully not for a good few years) stick Delaney in charge as putting Kmac in charge at Millwall was pretty much a surrender before kick off as he was just going through the motions.
Edit: Having fully read the article I can't quite believe he was actually found guilty of the allegations yet not just kept his job but was given a new role! I just assumed he'd been cleared.
Very disappointing from the club.
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Horrible state of affairs. Football in general needs to clean itself up. safeguarding? Does that exist in football clubs.
Saying that workplace bullying is so common I suppose a lot depends on the extent and strength of the bullying. Let the club and the authorities investigate this properly without making assumptions, either way
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Goodbye Kevin. You won't be missed
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i'll never forgive him for that Southampton match and team selection - should have been sacked for that let alone this out-dated, shameful behaviour
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It’s really shameful we have carried on paying him a wage to look after young adults after being charged. We should have sacked as soon as this all came out the first time. What a horrible man he is.
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jwarry, it's irrelevant whether others 'pipe up now'. Farrelly has, and even if he's the only one if what he says is found to be true it's shameful. He's certainly not 'too weak', far from it. He's not to blame for this.
Spot on.
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Too weak to cope with bullying?! Can’t think of a more stupid, ignorant thing I’ve read on this forum than that tbh.
Bye ‘KMac’. What an absolute scumbag waste of space bottle job walking example of the Peter Principle your are.
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Weird that Farrelly's words are given more credence from events of twenty-plus years ago than last year's investigation. Is it cos Gareth is a qualified lawyer and his words carry weight? I mean Ads is too, yet he's been saying for the last two and a half years that we'll piss the Championship and that's turned out to be a load of trollocks...
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A bad egg. Good riddance.
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There really is no defence for that sort of behaviour and quite rightly the club are treating this very seriously.
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Fuck him off for good.
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Weird that Farrelly's words are given more credence from events of twenty-plus years ago than last year's investigation. Is it cos Gareth is a qualified lawyer and his words carry weight? I mean Ads is too, yet he's been saying for the last two and a half years that we'll piss the Championship and that's turned out to be a load of trollocks...
Eamon he is an ambulance chaser I used to work with him when he first took up law- so solicitor on paper but in reality a clerk with a degree and an expensive qualification (LPC).
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I don't know Kevin Mac or have never seen how he trains the younger players, but having already been found guilty of bullying by a Premier League panel he should have been sacked immediately after the verdict.
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Makes sense why he always came across as a miserable sod whenever he would take the caretakers role.
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It will be interesting to see if any other players/former players now come forward.
However, victim blaming is not the right response.
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A weird one, some of the current youth players have tweeted their support for him together with some former players.
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Probably no surprise as we have heard enough of his disciplined approach, and enough have said they benefitted from the discipline, so was Gareth just too weak?!? Be interesting to see if others pipe up now
That's one of the worst things I've read on here in a while. Being bullied doesn't make the victim "weak", it just means the bully is a ******. Bullying can come in a number of forms, but it's the mental side that's the worst.
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The relentless day to day grind of a bully must be so tough for young lads, especially if they are away from home, doesn't have to be a physical threat, just constant negative comments and name calling. If true, makes you wonder what happened in MacDonalds life to make him like this.
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Probably no surprise as we have heard enough of his disciplined approach, and enough have said they benefitted from the discipline, so was Gareth just too weak?!? Be interesting to see if others pipe up now
A weird one, some of the current youth players have tweeted their support for him together with some former players.
Bullies don't bully everyone, just people they think they can pick on.
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A weird one, some of the current youth players have tweeted their support for him together with some former players.
I was once involved in a high profile bullying case at work, which involved a senior director being accused of bullying and harassment.
Anyone that had interaction with him was brought in and interviewed by HR.
As everyone started to talk about it and exchange experiences, it transpired that he was a c**t to almost everyone.
Some people described it as being bullied by him, some didn't.
I always just thought he was a prick, and stood up to him.
However it did open my eyes that what others may be experiencing, can be different to your own experience.
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A weird one, some of the current youth players have tweeted their support for him together with some former players.
It'll be the ones that don't defend the man that's more telling. It'll going through a few people's minds that he's not lost his job yet, so best not go shouting their mouths off about him publicly.
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Even if MacDonald made just one boys life a misery by constantly putting him down then that's one too many IMHO
Whatever profession you're in, man management (or in this case kid management) cannot be applied the same to everyone. Some need a bollocking and some need an arm around their shoulder.
No smoke without fire as they say. Kick him to the curb, he's got to be nearing retirement anyway.
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There really is no defence for that sort of behaviour and quite rightly the club are treating this very seriously.
Reading that article, it doesn’t strike me that the club have treated this seriously enough at all
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We need to move on from him. Anytime I now think of Kevin McDonald it is always with a sense of disdain.
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[quote
I’m glad we’ll never have to endure him at our club again.
Except he’s still at our club.
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[quote I’m glad we’ll never have to endure him at our club again.
Except he’s still at our club.
He’s at home looking at his lawn thinking “what the fuck am I going to do with this..?”
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The relentless day to day grind of a bully must be so tough for young lads, especially if they are away from home, doesn't have to be a physical threat, just constant negative comments and name calling. If true, makes you wonder what happened in MacDonalds life to make him like this.
Just think he's from the Roy Keane school of motivation that thinks shouting constant swear words day in day out at training will somehow make players fulfil their potential.
Of course tough lough needs to be shown at times but not every single day and he's certainly overstepped the mark here it seems.
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I don't. He's a bully, plain and simple. Plenty of top-level managers and coaches swear. He has long over-stepped the boundaries of what is acceptable.
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I don't. He's a bully, plain and simple. Plenty of top-level managers and coaches swear. He has long over-stepped the boundaries of what is acceptable.
Do you know that for a fact Legion?!? As I said before we all think it’s highly likely but everyone is innocent until proven guilty aren’t they?
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A Premier League investigation found MacDonald guilty of bullying a young Villa player in 2015 and 2016, yet MacDonald was allowed to continue at the club in a new role as the Under-23 coach.
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I don't. He's a bully, plain and simple. Plenty of top-level managers and coaches swear. He has long over-stepped the boundaries of what is acceptable.
Do you know that for a fact Legion?!? As I said before we all think it’s highly likely but everyone is innocent until proven guilty aren’t they?
It’s not infallible, but a rule of thumb... if it looks like an elephant and it smells like an elephant, it’s probably an elephant.
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Just think he's from the Roy Keane school of motivation that thinks shouting constant swear words day in day out at training will somehow make players fulfil their potential.
Exactly. And it's moronic. You don't often hear players say, 'I would have made it, but Kevin MacDonald didn't call me a ****** enough.'
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[quote I’m glad we’ll never have to endure him at our club again.
Except he’s still at our club.
He’s at home looking at his lawn thinking “what the fuck am I going to do with this..?”
Clear the leaves ? But you wont will you, because your fuckin useless at clearing leaves and you are always going be fuckin useless at clearing leaves you c**t !
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More allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/20/aston-villa-bullying-allegations-tony-mcandrew-kevin-macdonald-players
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Piss poor.
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More allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/20/aston-villa-bullying-allegations-tony-mcandrew-kevin-macdonald-players
That's painful to read. Awful, awful stuff.
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That’s not good reading at all. Makes you wonder how many nuggets we’ve lost because of these two if true
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a sad and sorry read
even if only half of it were true 20 years is a long time for it to go on for unnoticed or ignored
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Fucking pathetic, two grown men picking on kids, they should be ashamed of themselves.
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It's shite, and they're probably following the way the were raised in the ranks themselves in the 70's-80's. But we're talking over 20 years ago, in a culture where Ferguson could kick a boot at David Beckham, call his players everything under the son and be worshipped, or Barry Fry is seen as a somewhat amusing clown figure in some corners. Doesn't excuse grown men suffering from severe cases of toxic masculinity, but this was probably rife, throughout professional football. Yeah, by all means, if someone comes in from more recent times and accuses him over severe bullying, he'd have to go. But players getting called a Berkshire hunt over 20 years ago? We fire him and it sets a dangerous precedent I think for retrospective punishments. Jesus, look at Wimbledon. A ten year span, probably more and you could lock up the entire first team probably. It's historically been the English approach to coaching young players, up until the last decade or so. If things are changing, brilliant. Great. But this is the culture that used to see dads at kids football games shouting obscenities in the presence of 30 kids on the pitch and touchline.
What can be done about that? If they were more forthright about it back then they might have seen some action take place. If they were ignored, that would have been a failing on the clubs part.
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More allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/20/aston-villa-bullying-allegations-tony-mcandrew-kevin-macdonald-players
That's painful to read. Awful, awful stuff.
This article again highlights a shameful time within the club but this quote is just awful:
One other former player, who did not want to be named for personal reasons, makes similar claims, saying that as an adult he has realised it was wrong. “If they called me a ****** five times in a day that was a good day,” he says. “It was hell, day in and day out. Looking back, it wasn’t ‘old school’, it was crap school. I think it has had a bad impact on me over my whole life and now I cannot stand any form of bullying, or negativity.”
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I wish this had all come about when the club was in the doldrums. It's a shame that it happened at all but when the club is on the up and we have a quality manager and owners. I hope that justice is done come what may though.
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Wasn't there an incident in recent years when one of our players picked up a really bad training ground injury, and there was some controversy about how it had happened?
I know that sounds vague and is almost certainly not connected to this nonsense, but i remembered it reading these articles and couldn't for the life of me remember who it was.
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What I don't get is why anyone ever thought this was the way to produce top quality footballers. And if McDonald didn't think that, why was he doing it? Because that's the way things were then? No, I'm not buying that.
The 'school of hard knocks' thing has always been a load of cobblers anyway.
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If this was just "old school" wouldn't other clubs have issues over bullying that we seem to have ?
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I don't know if there's a definite causality between the two, but the mentions in the articles about how their experiences had a hugely negative impact on these men's personalities makes me wonder whether the relative lack of decent football careers post-academy was entirely to do with ability.
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Wasn't there an incident in recent years when one of our players picked up a really bad training ground injury, and there was some controversy about how it had happened?
I know that sounds vague and is almost certainly not connected to this nonsense, but i remembered it reading these articles and couldn't for the life of me remember who it was.
Ciaran Clark wasn't it?
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Was it Clarke or someone else?
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What I don't get is why anyone ever thought this was the way to produce top quality footballers. And if McDonald didn't think that, why was he doing it? Because that's the way things were then? No, I'm not buying that.
The 'school of hard knocks' thing has always been a load of cobblers anyway.
Totally agree. You wonder as well if about other coaches and the management at the time. Did they have any idea that this was happening and just looked the other way? A penny for Sir Brian's thoughts, as I'm sure both of them came to the club with him from Leicester
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Wasn't there an incident in recent years when one of our players picked up a really bad training ground injury, and there was some controversy about how it had happened?
I know that sounds vague and is almost certainly not connected to this nonsense, but i remembered it reading these articles and couldn't for the life of me remember who it was.
Ciaran Clark wasn't it?
I seem to recall it was that somebody went into a tackle and crocked another player. Wasn't Benteke injured that way?
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Wasn't there an incident in recent years when one of our players picked up a really bad training ground injury, and there was some controversy about how it had happened?
I know that sounds vague and is almost certainly not connected to this nonsense, but i remembered it reading these articles and couldn't for the life of me remember who it was.
Ciaran Clark wasn't it?
I seem to recall it was that somebody went into a tackle and crocked another player. Wasn't Benteke injured that way?
Wasn't it Libor Kozak?
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Perhaps finally we are getting to the rot deep in the club.
To have harmed our prospects, most importantly is the individuals who suffered. Yet sum up the collective lack of youth progression/development allied to misguided naive owners not getting in the right leaders, and you find why we’ve sunk so far.
How heartbreaking to have made it that far and have your dreams so horribly given a good kicking by those charged with making them manifest.
If any of those lads read this, I’m sorry you went through this.
We as a society are collectively judging prior incident by current moral standards, of course “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”
It can never be put right, yet justice must be done.
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We as a society are collectively judging prior incident by current moral standards, of course “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”
Seen this sentiment a couple of times here. My 2p worth is that you are right, you have to be a bit careful on judging any action, particularly something that's happened long ago ... but even in the distant past of the 1990s I'm not sure this sort of behaviour would be either acceptable or could be excused.
You know, the odd thing - fine, forgive and forget. Good example was BFR's racist comment a bit back. His actions for the 30odd years before it suggest he's probably not a racist. Fair enough, suspend him, that language isn't acceptable now in any context. But give the guy a break, he's not the devil incarnate.
KMac - ok, he's "old school" whatever that means. He gets a bit of leeway with saying and doing the odd thing as long as it's out of his general character.
But, he's not just had a momentary slip of judgement there by the sounds of it. Theres no way that sending multiple boys - and the ages we're taking about, these aren't fully grown men - in to a state of depression was ok then, or seemed ok then. Making challenges that would get you a red card in a match clearly aren't acceptable. It's not as if the coach wouldn't be aware of the rules of the game. It's physical assault, and would've been seen as physical assault at the time.
If what's been said is true, and it does look that way, the man should not be working with ... well, people in general. There's no excuse for destroying one person's life, let alone doing it at the scale that seems to have happened. I'm all for letting the odd thing slide, but this is clearly not something that can be let slide.
Not surprising it's taken so long to come out given the atmosphere that must've been created, and the ages of the boys concerned. Not that it's acceptable at any age, of course.
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We as a society are collectively judging prior incident by current moral standards, of course “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”
Seen this sentiment a couple of times here. My 2p worth is that you are right, you have to be a bit careful on judging any action, particularly something that's happened long ago ... but even in the distant past of the 1990s I'm not sure this sort of behaviour would be either acceptable or could be excused.
You know, the odd thing - fine, forgive and forget. Good example was BFR's racist comment a bit back. His actions for the 30odd years before it suggest he's probably not a racist. Fair enough, suspend him, that language isn't acceptable now in any context. But give the guy a break, he's not the devil incarnate.
KMac - ok, he's "old school" whatever that means. He gets a bit of leeway with saying and doing the odd thing as long as it's out of his general character.
But, he's not just had a momentary slip of judgement there by the sounds of it. Theres no way that sending multiple boys - and the ages we're taking about, these aren't fully grown men - in to a state of depression was ok then, or seemed ok then. Making challenges that would get you a red card in a match clearly aren't acceptable. It's not as if the coach wouldn't be aware of the rules of the game. It's physical assault, and would've been seen as physical assault at the time.
If what's been said is true, and it does look that way, the man should not be working with ... well, people in general. There's no excuse for destroying one person's life, let alone doing it at the scale that seems to have happened. I'm all for letting the odd thing slide, but this is clearly not something that can be let slide.
Not surprising it's taken so long to come out given the atmosphere that must've been created, and the ages of the boys concerned. Not that it's acceptable at any age, of course.
I think you're spot on with all that. It's not like the 1990s were the 1950s and I don't think attitudes were that much different 20 years ago. MacDonald is clearly a nasty so and so, and quite why he's still at the club in any sort of capacity is beyond me.
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He is under investigation following an allegation made by a former player. As much as I don't like the bloke for the Tottenham line up, he is still innocent until proven guilty. We have hired a barrister to investigate it.
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Wasn't there an incident in recent years when one of our players picked up a really bad training ground injury, and there was some controversy about how it had happened?
I know that sounds vague and is almost certainly not connected to this nonsense, but i remembered it reading these articles and couldn't for the life of me remember who it was.
Ciaran Clark wasn't it?
Ciaran Clark broke Kozak's leg in training.
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As mentioned above the moral equivalence argument might, MIGHT have some heft if he was pulling that shit in the 1950s, not in the 1990s.
Imagine if you heard about a teacher behaving like that. Why is it any different? We were responsible for the welfare of young people over whom we had an enormous amount of power.
There seems to have been an underlying sense of it’s a man’s world so you’re expected to ‘deal with’ some pathetic old man calling you a c***. Shows how football is still a safe space for toxic masculinity.
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He is under investigation following an allegation made by a former player. As much as I don't like the bloke for the Tottenham line up, he is still innocent until proven guilty. We have hired a barrister to investigate it.
In many ways, the "Tottenham line-up" could be argued as symptomatic of an aggressive attitude that might be part of a bullying persona. Or not.
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We as a society are collectively judging prior incident by current moral standards, of course “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.”
Seen this sentiment a couple of times here. My 2p worth is that you are right, you have to be a bit careful on judging any action, particularly something that's happened long ago ... but even in the distant past of the 1990s I'm not sure this sort of behaviour would be either acceptable or could be excused.
You know, the odd thing - fine, forgive and forget. Good example was BFR's racist comment a bit back. His actions for the 30odd years before it suggest he's probably not a racist. Fair enough, suspend him, that language isn't acceptable now in any context. But give the guy a break, he's not the devil incarnate.
KMac - ok, he's "old school" whatever that means. He gets a bit of leeway with saying and doing the odd thing as long as it's out of his general character.
But, he's not just had a momentary slip of judgement there by the sounds of it. Theres no way that sending multiple boys - and the ages we're taking about, these aren't fully grown men - in to a state of depression was ok then, or seemed ok then. Making challenges that would get you a red card in a match clearly aren't acceptable. It's not as if the coach wouldn't be aware of the rules of the game. It's physical assault, and would've been seen as physical assault at the time.
If what's been said is true, and it does look that way, the man should not be working with ... well, people in general. There's no excuse for destroying one person's life, let alone doing it at the scale that seems to have happened. I'm all for letting the odd thing slide, but this is clearly not something that can be let slide.
Not surprising it's taken so long to come out given the atmosphere that must've been created, and the ages of the boys concerned. Not that it's acceptable at any age, of course.
I agree with everything you said apart from the BFR bit, I can have an unblemished record in my job and be extremely racial friendly but if I was to make the same comment Big Ron did then I'd be sacked. So why should Big Ron be any different?
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He is under investigation following an allegation made by a former player. As much as I don't like the bloke for the Tottenham line up, he is still innocent until proven guilty. We have hired a barrister to investigate it.
Let's not forget he's already been found guilty of something very similar in an investigation, and that was 3 years ago so the whole "it's was a different time" argument doesn't wash either. I'd be amazed if he's not out on his arse as soon as this inquiry finishes.
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It's shite, and they're probably following the way the were raised in the ranks themselves in the 70's-80's. But we're talking over 20 years ago, in a culture where Ferguson could kick a boot at David Beckham, call his players everything under the son and be worshipped, or Barry Fry is seen as a somewhat amusing clown figure in some corners. Doesn't excuse grown men suffering from severe cases of toxic masculinity, but this was probably rife, throughout professional football. Yeah, by all means, if someone comes in from more recent times and accuses him over severe bullying, he'd have to go. But players getting called a Berkshire hunt over 20 years ago? We fire him and it sets a dangerous precedent I think for retrospective punishments. Jesus, look at Wimbledon. A ten year span, probably more and you could lock up the entire first team probably. It's historically been the English approach to coaching young players, up until the last decade or so. If things are changing, brilliant. Great. But this is the culture that used to see dads at kids football games shouting obscenities in the presence of 30 kids on the pitch and touchline.
What can be done about that? If they were more forthright about it back then they might have seen some action take place. If they were ignored, that would have been a failing on the clubs part.
Some of the claims are from 2015 / 2016, so the "different era" argument falls flat.[Edit - missed the previous responses] Absolutely shameful stuff from the club here.
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Hate long posts.
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What I really don't understand is that both of them have worked at the Villa under managers such as Brian, Sir Graham & McLeish and with owners/directors like Messrs Stride, Faulkner & Lerner, who for any faults they might have had were decent and honourable men. Yet they all seemingly let this culture prevail for so long. It's strange.
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That’s the bit that I don’t get. It’s not like this just happened or happened just while the club was going through a spell of off the turmoil that meant it was somehow missed. Some of the people we hold in the highest of esteem must have known about it in detail or would have been at minimu aware and allowed it to continue. How does that happen?
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I agree with everything you said apart from the BFR bit, I can have an unblemished record in my job and be extremely racial friendly but if I was to make the same comment Big Ron did then I'd be sacked. So why should Big Ron be any different?
Yeah, thought after I'd written it, it's not a great example ... defending racists isn't cool, is it?
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I agree with everything you said apart from the BFR bit, I can have an unblemished record in my job and be extremely racial friendly but if I was to make the same comment Big Ron did then I'd be sacked. So why should Big Ron be any different?
Yeah, thought after I'd written it, it's not a great example ... defending racists isn't cool, is it?
I agreed with what you said. Ron was punished for it at the time. He resigned before he was sacked by ITV, and obviously for a good while his reputation was in tatters. But I don't think a one-off mistake, however bad, should sully a person for life, who is I think, a decent man and certainly not a racist. He's apologised numerous times, and made amends. As the man himself points out, nothing in his behaviour and the way he treated people up until then mark him out as a racist. Far from it.
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In the interests of balance, on Irish radio recently Keith Andrews interviewed a former Villa youth player Danny Earls who was very positive on McDonald and McAndrew.
Andrews pushed him on it a bit but Earls, while saying they were old school, reckoned their approach was to toughen up lads for a career in professional football.
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One mans banter is another mans bullying.
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What I really don't understand is that both of them have worked at the Villa under managers such as Brian, Sir Graham & McLeish and with owners/directors like Messrs Stride, Faulkner & Lerner, who for any faults they might have had were decent and honourable men. Yet they all seemingly let this culture prevail for so long. It's strange.
Lerner must've just seen him as a good club man. I know he turned up to watch training from time to time but that was to watch first team. Obviously if he'd heard Mac hurling abuse at the young kids as way of motivation he'd have probably given him the boot.
I'm still convinced that if Newcastle 6-0 had never happened he'd have been appointed manager.
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Hate long posts.
Thanks for your contribution.
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Hate long posts.
Thanks for your contribution.
It was at least succinct.
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A bit tossery though.
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Hate long posts.
I know what you mean. It's a real bastard having to keep climbing up a step- ladder with a twenty-pound sledge hammer to hammer them in.
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I hate long posts. Have to stand on a box to hit them.
Seriously, on topic, what seems to be happening at VP at long last is the looking into all the dark corners and secret places that allowed the club to become so torn apart by factions within the club. The Secret Santa episode being a clear symptom of the malaise.
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Beat me by a nose Dave.
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One mans banter is another mans bullying.
And that is the point, I suppose, which explains Dave W's earlier comment about how long this all went on: for some people, the toughening-up process was a necessary development component ...
... although toughening-up can quickly become both misconceived and shift from useful to excessive and bullying.