Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on August 20, 2016, 07:16:38 PM
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Fire away.
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Aren't we still playing?
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If you can't win, don't lose.
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Lacking luck and quality to take our chances. Been a lot of positives in the last two games, but we do need some additional help in new players to see the job through. Lots of work to be done yet.
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Considering what we were saying about the centre of park before kick off the that was ok. We look more stubborn at the back, we'll have 2 better midfielders coming in and with a little more luck we maybe could of had 3 on another day.
Decent point on to the next.
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First half good. Second half less good.
Need more mobility and options up front.
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Not a bad result really, but we badly lack pace.
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No real creative threat and zero threat up top.
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Can we just discuss the highlights please.
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Probably a fair result but sod fair we need these points to win the title. We cant carry Gardner or Kozak again. Really like our central back two.
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Not the finished article, still some players to come, we will be alright.
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2 points dropped or 1 point gained?
We were the better team for most of the game but struggle to create chances or finish off chances that we do get. Very frustrating, but its early days so with the current team this is probably 1pt gained...but in a few months time, it should feel more like 2pts dropped.
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That's nearly two hours of my life I'll never get back. Now I remember why I don't watch Championship football.
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That was about as much fun as chronic constipation.
Nonetheless, they are looking more resilient. They just need to play in attack a bit more like they've actually, you know, met. And I'm not sure that sacrificing mobility for size up front is worth it.
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Better than I expected, but we're still a long, long way from where we need to be.
And Gardner was atrocious.
Ditto Westwood.
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Fuck me we've bought some absolute fucking donkeys over the last few years. Thank God that seems to have stopped. Lots to do yet in the transfer market. Some good signs, some bad still, but the bad stuff looks like its had its day.
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It appears as though our defence is more than good enough for this League we just need to sort out midfield and attack to romp it.
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3/4 starters still needed. Striker, 2 midfield at least
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Good point. Played two of the best teams away now. I don't think we've actually played badly either - need a little luck. We need a few more hard players - twats like Will Hughes.
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Can we just discuss the highlights please.
Shortest thread evah !
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5 points off the top already. Badly need an away victory and two wins in a row to gain some momentum
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Good point. Played two of the best teams away now. I don't think we've actually played badly either - need a little luck. We need a few more hard players - twats like Will Hughes.
Wednesday have lost the last two, home to Leeds and away to burton
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Sort of game we would have ended up losing last season. Second game in a row where it is disappointing that we did not turn the screw when we were on top. Ayew and Grealish both worked very hard but aren't out and out finishers. Kozak played like you would expect. Elphick and Chester seem to be gelling very nicely.
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Derby are no mugs but had enough possesion with no end product...need morea creative midfield and a striker.
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Would have snapped your arm off if you'd offered that when the teamsheets came out.
Gestede was largely dire but provided nuisance value whilst he was on. Kozak didn't even provide that.
We need a CM to avoid the possibility of that pair together at any point again this season, a centre forward to come straight in (and ideally a genuine target man as back up), a right back, a wide midfielder and a no 10. Possibly an experienced keeper as Golini looks like he has a few Guzan moments in him.
So a bit of work to do between now and Sep 1st.
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We need to start winning games quickly.
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Shape was wrong and tactically we don't make the most of our offensive players.
Mid table dross
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We need a striker and two midfielders desperate , one with a bit of creavity at last and the sooner Amavi is match fit the better , cissokho wasnt good.
Tish, Jedi, Amavi , a decent strker and two more midfielders we could make the play offs
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Not RDMs starting XI tonight, Jedi and Tshibola and a proper no. 9 and were sorted. Unbeaten in three in the league and we are already above the unclean. I'm quite happy really.
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Decent point.
At least we're creating chances but worry for me is lack of ruthless finishing.
Still we have a solid spine now. Need to get moving during September.
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On paper a decent result. As a game of football, very disappointing from two poor teams.
People can blame Westwood and Gardner but most of the team were poor. We're struggling again to pass the ball.
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Honestly I dont think we were dire at all. Considering we played most of the game with two players who are clearly unlikely to play for us again (gardner/kozak) thought we did well. Particularly against Derby who are going to be around the top of the table.
I am optimistic after today.
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I'd have taken that result before kick off having seen that midfield.
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Kozak missed a sitter with that header. Pity it wasn't Gestede. I wish Green would run at a tiring LB. A decent point nonetheless.
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We hit the bar and then the post and then Elphick had a shot cleared off the line, while at the other end our Keeper didn't have a shot to save.
Still, the Derby fan co commentator reckoned a draw was about fair ???????
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Has there been any time since the fixtures came out that anyone wouldn't have taken a draw from this match? It might have been dull, to put it mildly, but Derby are still going to figure in the promotion chase at the end of the season and their manager was, if you'd believe some, our only hope.
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I don't think there is much improvement from last season to be honest,
no clear style of play, midfield weak, forwards not creating much, central defence is better that's true but full backs still average
if we were still in the prem we would have lost our first 3 games by 2/3 goals, we are exactly what we are a mid table championship team
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I actually think Westwood looks a lot more comfortable at this level.
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Controlled the first half unlucky with the McCormack shot tipped onto the crossbar and Gardner's shot onto the post, Derby slightly better second half but could have won it with Elphicks shot kicked off the line, a point is about fair I think.
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Not RDMs starting XI tonight, Jedi and Tshibola and a proper no. 9 and were sorted. Unbeaten in three in the league and we are already above the unclean. I'm quite happy really.
If you are quite happy I would say I am cautiously optimistic. Which are possibly very similar sentiments.
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Has there been any time since the fixtures came out that anyone wouldn't have taken a draw from this match? It might have been dull, to put it mildly, but Derby are still going to figure in the promotion chase at the end of the season and their manager was, if you'd believe some, our only hope.
All valid. But when a team who is likely to be up near the top has an off day, you need to be able to take advantage.
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Has there been any time since the fixtures came out that anyone wouldn't have taken a draw from this match? It might have been dull, to put it mildly, but Derby are still going to figure in the promotion chase at the end of the season and their manager was, if you'd believe some, our only hope.
All valid. But when a team who is likely to be up near the top has an off day, you need to be able to take advantage.
True, but when you also have an off day you have to make sure you don't lose.
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They were nowhere first half, we should have taken advantage.
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I think the result is decent and good to see our centre halves look good. We desperately need more from the midfield and attack though. Hopefully with Tish and Jedi we'll have a more competitive midfield, but we need more creativity and pace.
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RDM talking a lot of sense in the post match interview. Likes our new signings and defence. Still thinks we are the unfinished article elsewhere. Feels we look more solid game after game.
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Comfortably the better team but the main striker is becoming a real problem. Gestede started poorly anyway but losing him and having to bring Kozak on so early was a big blow. Despite that we created enough to win that and defended solidly other than 10 mins after half time.
Not the result we wanted but the performances are going in the right direction, we're going to be a very good side with a few more games behind us and I'm finding it frustrating that some people are choosing to ignore that and focus on the mistakes rather than see the positives.
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RDM talks about bringing in more attacking players. Good to hear.
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He's building the foundations of a solid team. We are so slow going forward at times but I like the look of McCormack who creates so much space for himself. Once the others realise this and get him the ball earlier he'll score bucket loads. Onwards and upwards.
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Happy with a point - especially given that terribly weak midfield. The longer Kozak was out the better he got - but he offered nothing. Surprising how much we missed Gestede after he went off. I don't think Gardner will make it. If Derby were among the best in this league I don't think we'll have too many problems. Tshibola and Jedinak in that midfield, add a mobile striker, and I think we'll have fun this season
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Next three games are Bristol away and another home double header against Forest and Brentford.
Should be looking for 7 points there. The way the league works that would get us comfortably in the top 6.
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Next three games are Bristol away and another home double header against Forest and Brentford.
Should be looking for 7 points there. The way the league works that would get us comfortably in the top 6.
Yes pls. 7 points and off we go
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If Kozak is a professional footballer, then so am I.
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Kozak looked perfectly fine when he was fit. Which is about 5 years ago. Injuries, as with Gardner have crushed him.
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There really isn't much quality in this league so a few more signings could, and probably should, guarantee us a place in the playoff places...and if we become more ruthless in front of goal then we could be looking at automatic promotion.
I dont think thats unrealistic either...we currently have a team and squad littered with poor players, and have dropped 4pts against Derby and Huddersfield. If we strengthen in the right places with the right players, then both of those games would have yielded 3pts and I doubt we'd have lost to Wednesday either.
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first half I thought we were totally bossing it. felt the goal would come any moment. Things changed when Gestede limped off. I am a fierce critic of Gestede but whatever weakness in his game he is a presence in the division. When he left the pitch nothing stuck upfront whatsoever. We had the better chances even in the 2nd half boon had one cleared off the line and Kozak missed a sitter.
I think we will look back and see it as a decent away point. It's just the lack of wins makes you feel frustrated when we go close so many times.
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Next three games are Bristol away and another home double header against Forest and Brentford.
Should be looking for 7 points there. The way the league works that would get us comfortably in the top 6.
Yes pls. 7 points and off we go
9.
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Reasonable performance considering the two midfielders that were missing. Gardner once again didn't come up to scratch Kozak was completely ineffective and will disappear on a free sometime soon I expect. Coming along slowly.
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With the right mix of attacking players we'd have 6 and not 2 points from the last two games. The big difference to consider going forward is we will spend to improve, whereas many of the sides we have played this was their best or very close to it and even if they do buy it will be a fraction of what we will do. It will make a huge difference in the end.
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Kozak looked perfectly fine when he was fit. Which is about 5 years ago. Injuries, as with Gardner have crushed him.
First appearances since January and that little run came after 2 years out injured. He shouldn't be judged on today either way, if he gets 7-8 games and is still as anonymous then it will be the time to suggest the injuries have finished him but the hour or so today was clearly too much for him right now.
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I'm encouraged. New keeper and central defenders, probably 2nd string center midfield. Bossed the game for large periods against all teams we have played, most of which were pushing for promotion last year. The only goals against us have been flukes and we have hit the woodwork loads of times. new players due. Once we gel we'll do very well.
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So pleased we've got Di Matteo rather than Pearson. His post match interview was Lambertesque.
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4 games in and I see it like this.
2 clean sheets and 2 goals conceded in the other games due to mistakes/bad luck depending on your point of view.
RDM should be in the market for another RB and now Jedinak is in can see Amavi starting more at LB.
Another forward and maybe a player on the wings and think we will be in good shape.
Today we deserved to win on the balance of the game. You'd think that one of Elphick/Gardner/McCormack crosses the line but not to be. Tough to take given the goal we conceded midweek.
What was nice is the longer it went on the more I felt we wouldn't concede which makes a nice change. Clark + 2m for Chester is a good upgrade.
Bacuna was decent today and offers versatility in the squad. Gardner and Westwood are 3rd and 4th choice and did OK. I think both would improve with Jedinak next to them.
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RDM talking a lot of sense in the post match interview. Likes our new signings and defence. Still thinks we are the unfinished article elsewhere. Feels we look more solid game after game.
That sounds spot on to me.
There are a few positions we could strengthen but no 9 has to be the priority. A couple of goals against Rotherham doesn't convince me that gestede can start for this team week in and week out
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Solid point and our defence is clearly our strength, Elphick and Chester look tight as a partnership. Midfield i thought we missed Tshibola and I actually thought Westwood had one of his better games today. Grealish faded after first half and McCormack seems to be sitting too deep, the other striking role is a worry and I am not sure about Ayew, I think he's wasted on the wing, he goes past people for fun but theres no end product. On another day however we'd have scored 2-3, it just was never going to be our day, unlucky with first half chances and Elphick was denied by some excellent defending in the second. Script seemed written for Bent to score a 90th minute winner so thankfully we avoided that - fair play to Derby, they did well second half. Unbeaten in three now and more positives than negatives.
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first half I thought we were totally bossing it. felt the goal would come any moment. Things changed when Gestede limped off. I am a fierce critic of Gestede but whatever weakness in his game he is a presence in the division. When he left the pitch nothing stuck upfront whatsoever. We had the better chances even in the 2nd half boon had one cleared off the line and Kozak missed a sitter.
I think we will look back and see it as a decent away point. It's just the lack of wins makes you feel frustrated when we go close so many times.
You're right about it not sticking. I think Ayew should have gone up front with McCormack rather than a terminally rusty Kozak. He wouldn't win many headers but neither did Libor - at least Ayew can actually control it and play football with his feet.
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I'm encouraged. New keeper and central defenders, probably 2nd string center midfield. Bossed the game for large periods against all teams we have played, most of which were pushing for promotion last year. The only goals against us have been flukes and we have hit the woodwork loads of times. new players due. Once we gel we'll do very well.
Pretty much this ^^^^^^^
Sooner or later we're gonna start putting these chances away - at which point someone is in for a battering.
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We have every appearance of a mid-table Championship side, and given the state of the team and of the club at the end of last season I'd say that's progress.
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No harm to see out a clean sheet, looked very nervy at times near the end. Daft free kicks given away in dangerous areas, both full backs put themselves under pressure with stupid yellows.
They took over second half but RDM waited far too long to take off Kozak. Wouldn't have agreed with Grealish coming off either.
Positives, centre back partnership looks good. Elphick and Ayew showed leadership in second half when we needed it.Grealish looked threatening but needs moving targets ahead of him. First half we kept the ball from front to back easily. Amavi also had a decent cameo I thought, helped stiffen up the left flank.
Negatives, Cissokho should have had a peno against him late on, indiscipline in several players when Derby took over, Mccormack's fitness levels are appalling, needs to lose weight quickly, Gardner and Kozak are nowhere near good enough, Green was horribly naive again upon his introduction. Westwood went MIA in the second half after an outstanding first half, Derby pushed Hughes up on him and he couldn't cope.
Jedinak will improve us massively but we need a prolific speedster up front to lead the line. Grealish, Mccormack and Ayew are only supporting strikers while Gestede is a handy option but can't be first choice.
Gollini 6, Bacuna 7, Elphick 8, Chester 7, Cissokho 6, Ayew 8, Gardner 4, Westwood 6, Grealish 7, Mccormack 5, Gestede 6. Kozak 3, Green 4, Amavi 6
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As someone says above, you'd have thought moving ayew to no 9 would be a better bet than kozak
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I think Grealish needs to work harder and play more forward and central. He always gets the ball too deep and has too many poeple to beat.
We need more pace up front
For the next game Id go
Gollini
Bacuna, Tommy, Chester, Ally
Tish, Mile Amavi
Jack
Ross, Ayew
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I think there are quite a few positives.
We would have lost that last season, or even a few weeks ago.
We look solid, the only 2 league goals we've let in have been stupid mistakes. Elphick and Chester look a good partnership.
Sooner or later our luck must surely change and those efforts off the woodwork will come back and hit the keeper off the head and go in.
However I do think we desperately need another striker, someone with pace. If we'd had say Hernandez from Hull up front instead of Lamp post Kozak we'd have won imo.
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We have every appearance of a mid-table Championship side, and given the state of the team and of the club at the end of last season I'd say that's progress.
No. The team hasn't really gelled yet with new faces and more to come. With Jedinak and Tshibola to add this team is top six.
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We have every appearance of a mid-table Championship side, and given the state of the team and of the club at the end of last season I'd say that's progress.
I really don't think we do. We have the appearance of a side that is making a 180 degree turn and we are about 110 degrees through it. There are lots of encouraging signs along with a number of things that will resolve itself as the season goes on and new players are added and bed in. So I think we have the look of a promotion side that hasn't got it all together yet.
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As someone says above, you'd have thought moving ayew to no 9 would be a better bet than kozak
I think Ayew was playing deep for a reason. He was the only one with any real composure and comfort on the ball there.
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As someone says above, you'd have thought moving ayew to no 9 would be a better bet than kozak
Yep, good idea.
It was me BTW.
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We have every appearance of a mid-table Championship side, and given the state of the team and of the club at the end of last season I'd say that's progress.
No. The team hasn't really gelled yet with new faces and more to come. With Jedinak and Tshibola to add this team is top six.
I agree. We're still bedding players in and we're going to add some attacking quality. We've only got one win, but we've been dominating games and not having much luck. When the players are used to playing with each other and once we've added a couple I reckon we'll be up there towards the top. It would be useful if we won at least two of the next three.
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Sounds right to me TV. And I'd have taken that in July
Been impressed with RDM's transfers to date
Bit less impressed tactically. But we really should have won three of our four games and drawn the first one.
Get a proper mobile number 9 in and it will make the world of difference. It will make grealish and McCormack look massively better for a start. And it will give us an out ball when we're under the cosh
I'm absolutely certain they'll be looking hard. I do think a loan might be be most likely option.
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I don't see Ayew as an out an forward. I see him ideally suited to playing in the hole...
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The hole, did you say...?
Thought we did well in the circumstances. They just need to keep going and wait for the luck to turn.
Oh, and a new number 9 is a MUST!
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Still a few missing pieces but signs we have the makings of a decent side who are yet to fully click, and are not having a great deal of luck. I am probably one of Westwood's biggest critics (and let's face it there is a lot of competition) I don't rate the bloke at all - but I thought he did ok today. Gardner however, one great shot apart, looked poor. Kozak is obviously not ready, he never got into it. Grealish I thought looked useful but still needs to find the shot/cross/killer pass that will make him into a very good player. At least the defence looks mostly composed although once again Gollini parried one of his saves back into the danger zone. And at least we didn't toss away points in the last 3-4 minutes today. I would hope at least 2-3 more signings before the window loses would sort us out.
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The hole, did you say...?
Thought we did well in the circumstances. They just need to keep going and wait for the luck to turn.
Oh, and a new number 9 is a MUST!
that ruined it. ;)
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Still waiting for our luck to turn. Hit the post and tipped on to the bar on another day would have been 2 goals.
Defensively look good, midfield needs the bit of steel that Jedi and Tish will bring, up front need to finish.
Not panicking yet, but 5 points off top, 4 points off bottom, 12 th place.
UTV
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I think Ayew is better on the left than the right but that out wide suits him because he can beat 1 man and then open himself up, centrally he runs out of space. However he's better opening up for a shot than for a cross which is why he's currently on the wrong side. I'd be tempted to swap him and Grealish and see if they settle better.
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If Kozak is a professional footballer, then so am I.
Do you have an agent? If not I am available!
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Not RDMs starting XI tonight, Jedi and Tshibola and a proper no. 9 and were sorted. Unbeaten in three in the league and we are already above the unclean. I'm quite happy really.
If you are quite happy I would say I am cautiously optimistic. Which are possibly very similar sentiments.
I was going to say very happy, but I'm cautiously unoptimistic. We can only get better once RDM has who he wants.
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One thing as clear as the nose on your face a playmaker alongside jedinak and centre forward needed a.s.a.p
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I actually think Westwood looks a lot more comfortable at this level.
Yes a bit like l look very comfortable in a Chesterfield😊
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Started great but faded badly second half, not a bad result against one of the favourites but we are far better than them, we really should be ripping up this league with the players we have, they just haven't quite gelled yet.
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We have every appearance of a mid-table Championship side, and given the state of the team and of the club at the end of last season I'd say that's progress.
No. The team hasn't really gelled yet with new faces and more to come. With Jedinak and Tshibola to add this team is top six.
I agree. We're still bedding players in and we're going to add some attacking quality. We've only got one win, but we've been dominating games and not having much luck. When the players are used to playing with each other and once we've added a couple I reckon we'll be up there towards the top. It would be useful if we won at least two of the next three.
my pints 1/2 full , and the drink is improving.
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The hole, did you say...?
Thought we did well in the circumstances. They just need to keep going and wait for the luck to turn.
Oh, and a new number 9 is a MUST!
that ruined it. ;)
after the game didn't RDM indicate potential new attacking options
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I think Ayew is better on the left than the right but that out wide suits him because he can beat 1 man and then open himself up, centrally he runs out of space. However he's better opening up for a shot than for a cross which is why he's currently on the wrong side. I'd be tempted to swap him and Grealish and see if they settle better.
Ayew put in a very decent defensive shift in on the right in the second half.
Particularly after Bacuna got the early yellow, he covered back well a few times in an area Derby targeted.
His decision making with the ball is poor still, gets in great positions at times but nearly always does a Hutton on it
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Derby should've had a penalty there.
Probably balances out the non award at Wednesday on the opening day.
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Decent first half, meh second. Kozak was awful. Pride Park is crap.
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Frustrating again.
I didnt think we moved the ball quickly enough against a desperately ordinary side.
The only surprising element to the Championship so far is just how poor the so called top clubs like Derby are.
Too slow and ponderous and that limited our chances. That said, we've had two off the line, Jack spurned a great chance and we've rattled the woodwork twice and but for square posts we'd have won.
A little slower second half, but considering Westwood was effectively on his own next to the poor Gardner maybe it was to be expected.
On the positive side, we looked very well organised defensively and never looked like conceding. They had one chance towards the start of the second half which Gollini comfortably saved.
That's two goals conceded in four games and none of it through good play by the opposition.
Westwood was a positive, Jedinak and Tshibola coming into the midfield is a positive too.
We are crying out for pace up front to feed off McCormack's intelligence.
Kozak looks done as a player too. Bacuna played well, Westy played well and so did Grealish. A stronger base in the midfield and pace up top and wide and we will win this thing.
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Only seen the Ch5 highlights but could easily have won 3-0 again!
Having seen us twice I just cannot see who is pulling the strings in midfield - we desperately need someone who has a cool head and a killer pass - these flicks and dinks are quick but need luck to come off and we ain't lucky.
I am very pleased that we seem to have a defence after 4 seasons of absence.
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Slow paced, lack of urgency. Centre of midfield went missing for large parts of the second half. However, three games unbeaten. Win at Bristol City next week with Tshibola and Jedinak in the side and things will look even better. We really do need that pacey forward.
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I thought Westwood was pretty decent today, but Gardner offered no help at all.
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Need to pick at least 7 points up from our next three. That would put us close to 2 points a game and leave us six unbeaten. Momentum is huge.
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Started great but faded badly second half, not a bad result against one of the favourites but we are far better than them, we really should be ripping up this league with the players we have, they just haven't quite gelled yet.
This sums it up for me. We're basically a brand new team and once we click we'll be much better than this league. The only question is whether RDM can sort it out quickly enough to challenge for the title this year. But with the players we've got (and will be getting) we should easily reach the play-offs.
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I think Grealish needs to work harder and play more forward and central. He always gets the ball too deep and has too many poeple to beat.
We need more pace up front
For the next game Id go
Gollini
Bacuna, Tommy, Chester, Ally
Tish, Mile Amavi
Jack
Ross, Ayew
No. I don't want to see Aly Cissokho in a Villa shirt again. He is dreadful.
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RDM talking a lot of sense in the post match interview. Likes our new signings and defence. Still thinks we are the unfinished article elsewhere. Feels we look more solid game after game.
Agree with that. For me, we're still a club in rehab and we are still gradually getting ourselves out of the rut. The longer we go on looking solid, being hard to beat (or not even getting beaten), the better it's going to be on the other side when the attacking part of the team comes together. RDM sees this and I trust him to get the right people in. I like all of his signings so far.
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I think Grealish needs to work harder and play more forward and central. He always gets the ball too deep and has too many poeple to beat.
We need more pace up front
For the next game Id go
Gollini
Bacuna, Tommy, Chester, Ally
Tish, Mile Amavi
Jack
Ross, Ayew
like the look of that, far more balance, ayew is not a wide man. him and ross through the middle would give the vast majority of teams the shits
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While it's a little disappointing to draw another game, things are starting to come together. We actually look like a coherent football team again, organised and committed.
We won't be able to turn around five years of decline in four matches, but it's starting. The defence is already looking more solid, we have leaders on the pitch in Elphick and McCormack with another in the shape of Jedenik. Even Grealish is beginning to regain his confidence.
There will be set-backs no doubt, the journey back has begun.
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Decent point, our reconstruction is massive in comparison to the likes of Derby so any points picked up whilst new players are constantly arriving is good, particularly away from home.
Elphick & Chester are already the best centre back partnership we've had since Laursen retired and Mellberg moved on. Not a high bar granted but still true.
Gollini looked solid.
Bacuna is adequate in the Chanpionship, would like a good replacement. Trippier, DeLaet, Christie....
Cissohko is permanently a mistake waiting to happen because he has no natural control of the football. Another would love to see shipped out but suspect we'll be lumbered with him whilst Amavi gets fitness.
Westwood was the usual slow, weak, niggly, non tracking pointer in the middle, can't wait to have Jedinak & Tish exerting a bit of physique on the opposition - being selfish would like another centre mid to ensure if Westwood or Gardner are still here on Sept 1st they are at best 4th choice.
Gardner - see Westwood with a great effort in goal, was one who def wanted to see him given a chance, not shown that he is up to responding to challenge thus far, fear that he won't get many more chances
Grealish was better in defence than attack for me today, definitely growing up.
Ayew, still convinced he will push his way out before deadline day, pretty on the ball but not enough end product, wasted out wide?
McCormack, think there is a lot of fitness work to be done, will improve with a proper player ahead of him.
Gestede, did nothing, went off, unfortunately his level of nothing was missed!
Kozak, gotta make allowances for the lack of football played, would have liked to see him leave the ground when a ball is pumped up to him though :-)
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Decent point, our reconstruction is massive in comparison to the likes of Derby so any points picked up whilst new players are constantly arriving is good, particularly away from home.
Elphick & Chester are already the best centre back partnership we've had since Laursen retired and Mellberg moved on. Not a high bar granted but still true.
Gollini looked solid.
Bacuna is adequate in the Chanpionship, would like a good replacement. Trippier, DeLaet, Christie....
Cissohko is permanently a mistake waiting to happen because he has no natural control of the football. Another would love to see shipped out but suspect we'll be lumbered with him whilst Amavi gets fitness.
Westwood was the usual slow, weak, niggly, non tracking pointer in the middle, can't wait to have Jedinak & Tish exerting a bit of physique on the opposition - being selfish would like another centre mid to ensure if Westwood or Gardner are still here on Sept 1st they are at best 4th choice.
Gardner - see Westwood with a great effort in goal, was one who def wanted to see him given a chance, not shown that he is up to responding to challenge thus far, fear that he won't get many more chances
Grealish was better in defence than attack for me today, definitely growing up.
Ayew, still convinced he will push his way out before deadline day, pretty on the ball but not enough end product, wasted out wide?
McCormack, think there is a lot of fitness work to be done, will improve with a proper player ahead of him.
Gestede, did nothing, went off, unfortunately his level of nothing was missed!
Kozak, gotta make allowances for the lack of football played, would have liked to see him leave the ground when a ball is pumped up to him though :-)
Sorry I think the Westwood comment is purely based on his scapegoat status. He played well on the whole and was effectively trying to carry the centre of midfield on his own.
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Agreed - I thought Westwood worked his socks off today .
One shot apart - Gardner was awful.
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Decent point, our reconstruction is massive in comparison to the likes of Derby so any points picked up whilst new players are constantly arriving is good, particularly away from home.
Elphick & Chester are already the best centre back partnership we've had since Laursen retired and Mellberg moved on. Not a high bar granted but still true.
Gollini looked solid.
Bacuna is adequate in the Chanpionship, would like a good replacement. Trippier, DeLaet, Christie....
Cissohko is permanently a mistake waiting to happen because he has no natural control of the football. Another would love to see shipped out but suspect we'll be lumbered with him whilst Amavi gets fitness.
Westwood was the usual slow, weak, niggly, non tracking pointer in the middle, can't wait to have Jedinak & Tish exerting a bit of physique on the opposition - being selfish would like another centre mid to ensure if Westwood or Gardner are still here on Sept 1st they are at best 4th choice.
Gardner - see Westwood with a great effort in goal, was one who def wanted to see him given a chance, not shown that he is up to responding to challenge thus far, fear that he won't get many more chances
Grealish was better in defence than attack for me today, definitely growing up.
Ayew, still convinced he will push his way out before deadline day, pretty on the ball but not enough end product, wasted out wide?
McCormack, think there is a lot of fitness work to be done, will improve with a proper player ahead of him.
Gestede, did nothing, went off, unfortunately his level of nothing was missed!
Kozak, gotta make allowances for the lack of football played, would have liked to see him leave the ground when a ball is pumped up to him though :-)
Sorry I think the Westwood comment is purely based on his scapegoat status. He played well on the whole and was effectively trying to carry the centre of midfield on his own.
The beauty of the game of opinions :-)
Nothing to do with being a scapegoat, all I saw was a player who was trying but not doing anything to influence the game - Gardner was no better but he at least had a shot.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
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Westwood doesn't control anything. He does 'well' when the team is dominant; when the opposite occurs, when the going gets tough, he fades into nothingness. This is why we've bought Jedinak.
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Westwood. Not creative, not a great tackler, doesn't score goals, doesn't defend well enough in front of the back four. Isn't very physical. Goes missing when the oppo get more physical. He didn't play badly today and has done ok so far but he is NOT the answer in our midfield. Neither is Gary Gardner. I hope Tish and Jedinak don't get injured too often. All about opinions I guess.
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Westwood controlled nothing. Gardner has a terrific shot, not much else granted, but I'd take that before Westwoods finger pointing mediocrity any day.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
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Westwood was decent, as he has been most games this season. He will never dominate a game or be a midfield general though. Gardner was awful, one good shot doesn't make up for that, or that he was also awful against Wednesday and Luton. I want better, but i'll take a decent Westwood every day over a so far awful Gardner.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
Westwood's passing is another myth. He's a neat and tidy passer when it's an easy pass backwards or sideways, the kind of pass a scarecrow could master.
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Thought Westwood was great today maybe some compition for places in midfield will up his game. Bacuna is getting better game by game. You do get the impression this team is going to kick on :)
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You know for a fact that if Lescott and Richards had been playing we'd have collapsed at the start of the second half. Get a few more bodies in this week and I think we'll be on track.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
Westwood's passing is another myth. He's a neat and tidy passer when it's an easy pass backwards or sideways, the kind of pass a scarecrow could master.
He does and did today, your memory is just being selective. He could be more daring and he doesn't play first-time enough for me which slows us down, but a progressive forward pass doesn't have to be a through ball or a brilliant diagonal out wide, and he does enough of that simple stuff where he's simply moving it to Ayew or Grealish further up the pitch. Then again, I remember Michael Carrick played the most forward passes in Europe one season (no, I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near his level) and people were still accusing him of only making the safe side/back passes, so I guess that's just the nature of things.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
Weren't you asking how the game went earlier? Apologies if I am getting you mixed up with someone else.
I thought Westwood was his usual anonymous self -aside from a daft lunge first half and gobbing a good opportunity to put one of our forwards away second half.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
Weren't you asking how the game went earlier? Apologies if I am getting you mixed up with someone else.
I thought Westwood was his usual anonymous self -aside from a daft lunge first half and gobbing a good opportunity to put one of our forwards away second half.
I was, but I had it on record. I've watched it back and I thought he controlled it well it the first half. In the second it got away a bit, but I don't think that was really down to him. He did a couple of daft things, but on reflection he had a good game overall. I don't think he's a world beater, but I don't think he's the liability he's made out to be either. If he's back up/competing with Tish and the Jedi I think that's three pretty good options.
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So pleased we've got Di Matteo rather than Pearson. His post match interview was Lambertesque.
Likes the sound of his own voice doesn't he? It reminded me of the Not The Nine O' Clock News sketch where Rowan Atkinson is interviewing the politician (who's name escapes me at the moment) and he bangs on so much Rowan Atkinson ends up changing into his pyjamas and making himself some cocoa.
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I saw Westwood give the ball away with a simple pass just before RM got the yellow card and then he got caught in possession resulting in giving a free kick away which Ince nearly scored. He might have worked his nuts off but he isnt good enough to start at this level in our team. The sooner we get the two midfielders in the team Jedi and tish the better and need to sign another one too before september.
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At the back we are looking more solid, but we need an injection of pace to stretch teams, whether that pace comes from a speedster or just a midfield player who creates that pace with his vision and oh for the much required by all goal scorer.
Also a game plan that lasts 90 minutes, not just 45 to 60 minutes.
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We need a finished article Tony Daley type signing. Not sure who would foot the bill, but a pacey winger who can get behind and deliver, or cut in and shoot is what we're lacking.
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We have one Robbo in Rushian Hepburn Murphy but he is not being given game time. We are crying out for pace up front but when forced to substitute an extremely slow front man we brought on an even slower one. A little bit of criticism of the management for Blackism but mostly our problems continue to flow from the sub standard squad that accrued three wins and seventeen points last season. We need more better players, it is as simple as that. Our future stands or falls on the depth of Tony's pockets.
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Frustrating that we are not scoring when on top in games but pleased that clearly we are starting to get the solid Base right of being difficult to beat. As many have said the final third of the pitch is now needing an overall and is desperate for some pace and mobility.
Progress is happening and we can't loose sight of just how shit we were last year.
Not sure why RHM not getting on bench and at present not seeing anything in Green
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Seemed a decent result to me. The team has been together 5 minutes and you need time to develop an understanding. This league is not going to be a stroll in the park whatever some believe so i'd settle for a point away. It's a solid start results wise so far and considering the complete mess we were 3 months ago definite progress.
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Well as is commonly said. The table doesn't lie and mid table is the perfect position for us at the mo. We're totally average. A shame Gestede got injured as he's been making progress but at the moment God we're ordinary as a team.
But thats an improvement and it will turn round but I'm not sure it's going to be this season.
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Think we have to wait till RDM has finished his surgery and for the new players to find their feet. If we're still mid-table come early december then thats one thing but atm it much too early to tell
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We've got some way to improve but I think we will. Everyone seems to be beating each other so it's not like teams are stealing a march on us early doors.
I dont see Huddersfield getting promoted anytime soon for instance.
We look fairly solid at the back which considering the last few years is already a small achievement in itself
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Well as is commonly said. The table doesn't lie and mid table is the perfect position for us at the mo. We're totally average. A shame Gestede got injured as he's been making progress but at the moment God we're ordinary as a team.
But thats an improvement and it will turn round but I'm not sure it's going to be this season.
After only 4 games of course the table lies. It is like trying to predict the winner of a marathon after the first mile.
It will take a few more weeks for this league to settle down. There is still business to be done in the window for a lot of teams and then time for those players to become integrated, I recon it will be October/November before we get an idea of where we stand. As it is we have been competitive in all of the games we have played and our defence in particular is looking strong which gives me cause to think that the manager knows what he is doing.
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I agree with Chris, in a season with so many games the table means absolutely nothing after four games.
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I agree with Chris, in a season with so many games the table means absolutely nothing after four games.
I absolutely hate that phrase "the table never lies"
It lies every week until the end of the final game, as that is the only one that matters.
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Sorry if it's already been said but we can not continue to carry the likes of Gardner, Westwood, Kozak any further before it seriously bites us in the ass
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We have one Robbo in Rushian Hepburn Murphy but he is not being given game time. We are crying out for pace up front but when forced to substitute an extremely slow front man we brought on an even slower one. A little bit of criticism of the management for Blackism but mostly our problems continue to flow from the sub standard squad that accrued three wins and seventeen points last season. We need more better players, it is as simple as that. Our future stands or falls on the depth of Tony's pockets.
Couldn't agree more Brian...RHM looked red hot in pre-season and he's got the pace we are clearly lacking up front.
Thought we were lightweight in midfield again - same as Wednesday and Huddersfield games - looking outnumbered at times. Jedinak to the rescue!?
Defence pretty solid except for Cissokho, Gardner not good enough, Westwood ok today, Jack worked hard, Kozak pretty poor.
I'd like to see Tish and Jedi start v Bristol and RHM at least on the bench.
Great turn out by how ever many of us there were.
Proud to be a Villa(i)n!
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A point away at a "proper" Championship side with a midfield of Westwood and Gardner strikes me as a bit of an achievement.
BG, it would be good to see RHM playing, but I reluctantly have to agree with RDM at the moment, insomuch as until such time as our midfield starts utterly dominating and stamping itself upon this division, we have to play with a "big man up top", it's just a shame our choices are mind-numbingly slow! Hopefully Jedinak is the man to change that, allowing us to play Ayew or McCormack, even RHM, as the centre-forward.
A question for those that've watched him; André Green, what position did he play coming through the junior sides? Was he just a winger, did he ever play fullback, or look like he could play there?
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5 points off the top already. Badly need an away victory and two wins in a row to gain some momentum
I'm not hitting the panic button just yet. Very long way to go. Newcastle lost the first two. Now they've won two. Positive is we didn't lose a tricky away game. Onto the next
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Chris is right it's a bit daft to be looking at the table this early. 5 points off Huddersfield but then we saw how limited they are.
We're still gelling and it will take a bit if time, but not conceding or even looking like we will is a bonus which means although the past two performances weren't quite there, we didn't get beat. On other nights we find ourselves four points better off as we could have been 4 and 3 up respectively at half time against Huddersfield and Derby.
It's clear we need a centre forward (with pace!) And somebody out wide and attacking in the middle.
Jedinak will be a massive plus and Tshibola will give us the legs in midfield. Ado those additional attacking options around what is easily the best forward line in the league already and we will look more like it.
Chester and Elphick are big positives too. Both look excellent at this level.
I agree that we could do with taking 7 from the next three, but with so many games and more players coming in, it's as somebody said above, no need to panic.
Our quality will tell in the end and if we don't go up automatically I'll eat my hat.
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Thought we lacked pace up front yesterday which I think is what the new striker will need to have. We played ok though, Westwood who I'm not a fan of had a decent game again. I think he's found he's level in this league. 5 points off the top is not too bad at the moment, there's a hell of a long way to go.
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I'm happy with our start so far. Not least because with a bit more luck we'd have more points. But also we're slowly but surely getting more resolute in order to halt the appalling slide we suffered for the whole of last season. To address that damage doesn't happen instantly. A solid, if unspectacular start is better than getting absolutely roasted in five games. Teams would have been licking their lips playing us but aside from gifting 3 points through two errors, we've outclassed (in patches) the sides we've played.
We just need to keep this up for 90 minutes and having someone influential and experienced like Jedinak in midfield should help us keep our grip on games more effectively. Westwood has done okay for us this season. He's better at this level but when the momentum starts swinging to the opposition, he goes missing. He won't grab the game by the neck and slap the fuck out of it when he needs to.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
Westwood's passing is another myth. He's a neat and tidy passer when it's an easy pass backwards or sideways, the kind of pass a scarecrow could master.
He does and did today, your memory is just being selective. He could be more daring and he doesn't play first-time enough for me which slows us down, but a progressive forward pass doesn't have to be a through ball or a brilliant diagonal out wide, and he does enough of that simple stuff where he's simply moving it to Ayew or Grealish further up the pitch. Then again, I remember Michael Carrick played the most forward passes in Europe one season (no, I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near his level) and people were still accusing him of only making the safe side/back passes, so I guess that's just the nature of things.
I'm not sure about that. I really don't get this 'he moves the ball' stuff. He's a footballer. That's what he's a millionaire for. Yet he doesn't even do that very well.
Everything else that's required of him, he frequently fails to do - set pieces (floaty garbage), tackling (powderpuff), protecting the defence (points at something), shooting (ha ha ha ha), kicking a football properly (still waiting), etc. etc.
Passing the ball sideways to a very deep Ayew is not an incisive forward pass. And as I've said before, I think there was a reason why Ayew played so deep. It's because he can actually kick and keep possession of a football, which, as RDM would have known, is what Westwood and Gardner both struggle with.
We're in the Championship now. Westwood looks ordinary here at best, virtually anonymous at other times. We're mid table. If we want to get out of this division, the likes of Westwood and Gardner just aren't good enough.
Westwood especially is one of the reasons we set up camp at the bottom of the Premier League for five seasons. And he's one of the reasons we're not getting the results now. I know, I know, early days and all that. But we need better, RDM knows it, and he's bought it.
No more settling for mediocre nothingness.
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Well as is commonly said. The table doesn't lie and mid table is the perfect position for us at the mo. We're totally average. A shame Gestede got injured as he's been making progress but at the moment God we're ordinary as a team.
But thats an improvement and it will turn round but I'm not sure it's going to be this season.
After only 4 games of course the table lies. It is like trying to predict the winner of a marathon after the first mile.
It will take a few more weeks for this league to settle down. There is still business to be done in the window for a lot of teams and then time for those players to become integrated, I recon it will be October/November before we get an idea of where we stand. As it is we have been competitive in all of the games we have played and our defence in particular is looking strong which gives me cause to think that the manager knows what he is doing.
Yeah I'm not too worried at the table.
Hopefully get a move on during the next month to lay down a marker. Get 7 points from Bristol and home games v Forest and Brentford which should be very possible and we'll be comfortably in the top 6.
12 points from 7 games would be about 78/79 points over a full season so comfortably play offs and not that far off top 2.
We don't need a massive improvement to be in contention in this league, the first four games should show you this.
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Only just seen the highlights. Looks like Gollini had nothing to do.
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We're not going to be promoted with this powderpuff midfield. It's letting us down.
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We're not going to be promoted with this powderpuff midfield. It's letting us down.
Tshibola and Jedinak won't be powderpuff.
Gardner isn't good enough I'm afraid, he doesn't have any real impact on the game (apart from one pot shot yesterday). He's like his brother, if he isn't having a rare decent shot from 25 yards then you don't notice he's playing.
Westwood is just meh. He's like a crisp packet floating about the pitch, it's there but barely noticeable. Again when does he ever take a game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward? He's an absolute nothing player.
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We're not going to be promoted with this powderpuff midfield. It's letting us down.
Tshibola and Jedinak won't be powderpuff.
Gardner isn't good enough I'm afraid, he doesn't have any real impact on the game (apart from one pot shot yesterday). He's like his brother, if he isn't having a rare decent shot from 25 yards then you don't notice he's playing.
Westwood is just meh. He's like a crisp packet floating about the pitch, it's there but barely noticeable. Again when does he ever take a game by the scruff of the neck and drive the team forward? He's an absolute nothing player.
Agreed about Tshibola and Jedinak. I get a bit fed up with the "Westwood will be fine in the Championship" routine favoured by a lot of our fans though. He clearly isn't fine in this league, unless we want to finish midtable that is. Hopefully we'll soon see a midfield worthy of this club
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We're not far off...it's not like there has been anything to scare us so far. Bit more luck and we'd have 7 or 8 points.
Add Jedinak and an up and running Tishbola and it's a top 6. Get Mcormack and Ayew firing and it's top 4, Another striker and creative midfielder plus the team slowly gelling and it's top 2.
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I think Westwood is fine for this level personally but hopefully Jedinak and Tshibola will make a huge difference and Westwood can sit on the bench.
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Only just seen the highlights. Looks like Gollini had nothing to do.
He didn't. It's the easiest game he'll have probably.
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Was Tshibola out injured yesterday?
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Chris is right it's a bit daft to be looking at the table this early. 5 points off Huddersfield but then we saw how limited they are.
We're still gelling and it will take a bit if time, but not conceding or even looking like we will is a bonus which means although the past two performances weren't quite there, we didn't get beat. On other nights we find ourselves four points better off as we could have been 4 and 3 up respectively at half time against Huddersfield and Derby.
It's clear we need a centre forward (with pace!) And somebody out wide and attacking in the middle.
Jedinak will be a massive plus and Tshibola will give us the legs in midfield. Ado those additional attacking options around what is easily the best forward line in the league already and we will look more like it.
Chester and Elphick are big positives too. Both look excellent at this level.
I agree that we could do with taking 7 from the next three, but with so many games and more players coming in, it's as somebody said above, no need to panic.
Our quality will tell in the end and if we don't go up automatically I'll eat my hat.
I agree with the table at this stage bit, but we need to start getting into our stride pretty quickly. The next two games look trickyish, but are the sorts of games where a hard-earned point isn't really going to be enough. We don't to be in the position where having played 10 games, we're only on 10-12 points.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
Westwood's passing is another myth. He's a neat and tidy passer when it's an easy pass backwards or sideways, the kind of pass a scarecrow could master.
He does and did today, your memory is just being selective. He could be more daring and he doesn't play first-time enough for me which slows us down, but a progressive forward pass doesn't have to be a through ball or a brilliant diagonal out wide, and he does enough of that simple stuff where he's simply moving it to Ayew or Grealish further up the pitch. Then again, I remember Michael Carrick played the most forward passes in Europe one season (no, I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near his level) and people were still accusing him of only making the safe side/back passes, so I guess that's just the nature of things.
I'm not sure about that. I really don't get this 'he moves the ball' stuff. He's a footballer. That's what he's a millionaire for. Yet he doesn't even do that very well.
Everything else that's required of him, he frequently fails to do - set pieces (floaty garbage), tackling (powderpuff), protecting the defence (points at something), shooting (ha ha ha ha), kicking a football properly (still waiting), etc. etc.
Passing the ball sideways to a very deep Ayew is not an incisive forward pass. And as I've said before, I think there was a reason why Ayew played so deep. It's because he can actually kick and keep possession of a football, which, as RDM would have known, is what Westwood and Gardner both struggle with.
We're in the Championship now. Westwood looks ordinary here at best, virtually anonymous at other times. We're mid table. If we want to get out of this division, the likes of Westwood and Gardner just aren't good enough.
Westwood especially is one of the reasons we set up camp at the bottom of the Premier League for five seasons. And he's one of the reasons we're not getting the results now. I know, I know, early days and all that. But we need better, RDM knows it, and he's bought it.
No more settling for mediocre nothingness.
If only there was a pass map to show how far his forward passes went! Oh wait, there is: http://championship.squawka.com/english-football-league-championship/20-08-2016/derby-vs-avilla/matches
There's plenty of forward passes there where he's moved it into the final third.
Through four games, he's completed more passes, at a higher percentage than anyone else. If that's not keeping possession, I don't know what it is; the fact that the passing hasn't been all that penetrating relates to a completely different concept. Also, If it was so easy to move the ball as you suggest, England wouldn't be so fucking shit at it game after game, and those players are paid a sight more than Westwood are.
I've never suggested that Westwood is anything more than a so-so player with a limited set of skills, and I'd hope that Tshibola and Jedinak can establish themselves as our starting two going forward. That doesn't mean people should be so ridiculously over-the-top in assessing his contributions.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Yes, but those statistics might not be relevant when it comes to his role. I'm sure Michael Carrick doesn't have amazing assist, goals and last ditch tackle stats. His role is to distribute the ball to players who will have good attacking stats. That's the role Westwood has. He might not be brilliant, but he's nowhere near as bad as he's made out to be.
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Well as is commonly said. The table doesn't lie.
In August it does.
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The table means nothing at the moment. It's important to remember that the vast majority of the sides in the league won't spend significantly more than they have already because they simply don't have the resources. And it is also likely that sides like us and Newcastle will have the ability to spend on one player what most sides will spend collectively. The gap in spending power is significant. This might not be immediately apparent but over the course of a long season the sides who have deepest resources and are well run should emerge from the pack.
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Yes, a lot of sideways passing, or offloading the ball to team-mates, some of whom were in front of him, as I saw with my own eyes. Nothing incisive. And look at his tackling stats. Three tackles, one successful.
I just had a look at Westwood's wiki page. This is how he describes himself: "someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates." That's a euphemism for 'a very limited lower-league footballer who can't believe his luck at being signed by Aston Villa, and hopes nobody notices how limited he is.'
Even Crewe manager Steve Davis is quoted as saying it was 'a bit of a surprise' when Villa came in for him. Westwood is a product of our 'young and hungry' fallacy which was an abject disaster. He should never have been a Villa player.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Surely his job is to keep things ticking over, to always be available for a pass and to keep the ball moving to get the more creative players into the game. If we had anyone better at that role then he would be replaced but at the moment I am not sure we do and it would be a waste to ask one of the more creative players to do that job.
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Well as is commonly said. The table doesn't lie and mid table is the perfect position for us at the mo. We're totally average. A shame Gestede got injured as he's been making progress but at the moment God we're ordinary as a team.
But thats an improvement and it will turn round but I'm not sure it's going to be this season.
After only 4 games of course the table lies. It is like trying to predict the winner of a marathon after the first mile.
It will take a few more weeks for this league to settle down. There is still business to be done in the window for a lot of teams and then time for those players to become integrated, I recon it will be October/November before we get an idea of where we stand. As it is we have been competitive in all of the games we have played and our defence in particular is looking strong which gives me cause to think that the manager knows what he is doing.
Sorry. Working today so I've not really had time to have a good read of opinions but the fact is at the moment after 4 games we're nothing special. Thats not an opinion I hold overall and I'm certainly not coming to the conclusion that were not going anywhere. Di Matteo is doing a good job so far. Let's face it we've arguably gambled with 1 signing so far (Gollini). Compare that to last season when we virtually gambled on a whole new team! Looking back that was complete madness.
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I just took a look at Westwoods passing map against Derby that someone linked too, it proves exactly what he does with the ball, nothing, half the passes look sideways, the only ones around the area are just knocked wide, 1 succesful pass inside the box. He's cack.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Surely his job is to keep things ticking over, to always be available for a pass and to keep the ball moving to get the more creative players into the game. If we had anyone better at that role then he would be replaced but at the moment I am not sure we do and it would be a waste to ask one of the more creative players to do that job.
If we are to go up, I don't think we can afford for such a limited player like Westwood to be a regular. We need goals, assists and protection of the back four from the midfield, and he does none of those things. When we're behind or drawing, we need people with drive and energy to get forward. When we need to protect what we've got, we need rugged and physical players to get stuck in. Again, he isn't capable of these things, and slipping five yard passes to people on its own is far from being good enough. It'll be only OK if we want to finish mid table. We've had 4 years of seeing that he isn't good enough at Premier League level, and he isn't good enough for a Championship side chasing promotion. Ideally I'd like to see him sold if we can get another midfielder in.
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Yes, a lot of sideways passing, or offloading the ball to team-mates, some of whom were in front of him, as I saw with my own eyes. Nothing incisive. And look at his tackling stats. Three tackles, one successful.
I just had a look at Westwood's wiki page. This is how he describes himself: "someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates." That's a euphemism for 'a very limited lower-league footballer who can't believe his luck at being signed by Aston Villa, and hopes nobody notices how limited he is.'
Even Crewe manager Steve Davis is quoted as saying it was 'a bit of a surprise' when Villa came in for him. Westwood is a product of our 'young and hungry' fallacy which was an abject disaster. He should never have been a Villa player.
At this point, you're just being obtuse. So congrats.
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Was Tshibola out injured yesterday?
Yes, he came off against 'uddersfield
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Yes, a lot of sideways passing, or offloading the ball to team-mates, some of whom were in front of him, as I saw with my own eyes. Nothing incisive. And look at his tackling stats. Three tackles, one successful.
I just had a look at Westwood's wiki page. This is how he describes himself: "someone who stays out of the limelight and keeps it simple, retaining the ball and laying it off to team-mates." That's a euphemism for 'a very limited lower-league footballer who can't believe his luck at being signed by Aston Villa, and hopes nobody notices how limited he is.'
Even Crewe manager Steve Davis is quoted as saying it was 'a bit of a surprise' when Villa came in for him. Westwood is a product of our 'young and hungry' fallacy which was an abject disaster. He should never have been a Villa player.
At this point, you're just being obtuse. So congrats.
Sure. Your user name aptly gives you away, Ash, so we'll end it there.
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We need a finished article Tony Daley type signing. Not sure who would foot the bill, but a pacey winger who can get behind and deliver, or cut in and shoot is what we're lacking.
Ravel is on his way!
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Wouldn't mind him being a bench option and am hoping Jedinak replaces him. Disappears when the pressure comes on and hardly heard him and Gardner mentioned in the second half yesterday and I thought Will Hughes looked far better than the pair of them.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Surely his job is to keep things ticking over, to always be available for a pass and to keep the ball moving to get the more creative players into the game. If we had anyone better at that role then he would be replaced but at the moment I am not sure we do and it would be a waste to ask one of the more creative players to do that job.
If we are to go up, I don't think we can afford for such a limited player like Westwood to be a regular. We need goals, assists and protection of the back four from the midfield, and he does none of those things. When we're behind or drawing, we need people with drive and energy to get forward. When we need to protect what we've got, we need rugged and physical players to get stuck in. Again, he isn't capable of these things, and slipping five yard passes to people on its own is far from being good enough. It'll be only OK if we want to finish mid table. We've had 4 years of seeing that he isn't good enough at Premier League level, and he isn't good enough for a Championship side chasing promotion. Ideally I'd like to see him sold if we can get another midfielder in.
I'm not convinced "keeping things ticking over and keeping the ball moving" is, or should be, a job in itself. It sounds very much like carrying a passenger to me. A player needs to bring more to the party than just that, especially if he can't even do that bit particularly well. People go on about the "water carrier" role and how every team is supposed to need one. I may not be recalling this correctly but I thought Cantona had coined the term to have a dig at Didier Deschamps and the French hierarchy after he was left out of various French squads. It wasn't meant to be a compliment, it was meant to criticise the preference of more limited footballers over much better players. The "every team needs one" line was trailed out as a defence of the type of player Deschamps was. I still don't see why you can't have a player who does that linking role but can also deliver set pieces, break up play, play some proper trough balls, get some tackles in, hit some shots on target and generally impose himself on the game. The other day someone described Westwood as the metronome of the team, setting the tempo. I almost laughed out loud. That's maybe what a player in his role should be doing but in terms of influencing the game, I'm afraid our Ashley is more like a garden gnome, one set in stone forever in a pointy pose.
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Fair enough, but I disagree completely. Westwood controlled the first half. Gardner was largely a complete liability and I've got no idea what he did at Forest to get such rave reviews.
On the evidence of last 4-5 games I agree ref Gardner, the shot today is the only noteworthy thing! Really wanted him to grab his chance but he hasn't shown.
What I would say with Westwood is that in a central three with Jedinak & Tshibola I think he might have a role to play as the link player to the forward players as he is a neat & tidy passer.
Westwood's passing is another myth. He's a neat and tidy passer when it's an easy pass backwards or sideways, the kind of pass a scarecrow could master.
He does and did today, your memory is just being selective. He could be more daring and he doesn't play first-time enough for me which slows us down, but a progressive forward pass doesn't have to be a through ball or a brilliant diagonal out wide, and he does enough of that simple stuff where he's simply moving it to Ayew or Grealish further up the pitch. Then again, I remember Michael Carrick played the most forward passes in Europe one season (no, I'm not saying Westwood is anywhere near his level) and people were still accusing him of only making the safe side/back passes, so I guess that's just the nature of things.
I'm not sure about that. I really don't get this 'he moves the ball' stuff. He's a footballer. That's what he's a millionaire for. Yet he doesn't even do that very well.
Everything else that's required of him, he frequently fails to do - set pieces (floaty garbage), tackling (powderpuff), protecting the defence (points at something), shooting (ha ha ha ha), kicking a football properly (still waiting), etc. etc.
Passing the ball sideways to a very deep Ayew is not an incisive forward pass. And as I've said before, I think there was a reason why Ayew played so deep. It's because he can actually kick and keep possession of a football, which, as RDM would have known, is what Westwood and Gardner both struggle with.
We're in the Championship now. Westwood looks ordinary here at best, virtually anonymous at other times. We're mid table. If we want to get out of this division, the likes of Westwood and Gardner just aren't good enough.
Westwood especially is one of the reasons we set up camp at the bottom of the Premier League for five seasons. And he's one of the reasons we're not getting the results now. I know, I know, early days and all that. But we need better, RDM knows it, and he's bought it.
No more settling for mediocre nothingness.
If only there was a pass map to show how far his forward passes went! Oh wait, there is: http://championship.squawka.com/english-football-league-championship/20-08-2016/derby-vs-avilla/matches
There's plenty of forward passes there where he's moved it into the final third.
Through four games, he's completed more passes, at a higher percentage than anyone else. If that's not keeping possession, I don't know what it is; the fact that the passing hasn't been all that penetrating relates to a completely different concept. Also, If it was so easy to move the ball as you suggest, England wouldn't be so fucking shit at it game after game, and those players are paid a sight more than Westwood are.
I've never suggested that Westwood is anything more than a so-so player with a limited set of skills, and I'd hope that Tshibola and Jedinak can establish themselves as our starting two going forward. That doesn't mean people should be so ridiculously over-the-top in assessing his contributions.
Very interesting to compare those data maps for our midfield and their midfield. Gardner also had a good game despite the general perception that he did very little. Try comparing our midfield's maps to Derby's.
This site also interesting:
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7
Scroll down to Championship team of the season and note who is upfront. That's a real surprise.
Then shuttle to team of the week and note that one team is supplying 4 players to that team. Then have a look at Will Hughes passing map and try and work out what he's doing in it. It might be time to reassess the value of Gardner and Westwood - I'm not saying that they are world beaters but I do think that a lot of the stick they get is unwarranted and misplaced.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
Surely his job is to keep things ticking over, to always be available for a pass and to keep the ball moving to get the more creative players into the game. If we had anyone better at that role then he would be replaced but at the moment I am not sure we do and it would be a waste to ask one of the more creative players to do that job.
If we are to go up, I don't think we can afford for such a limited player like Westwood to be a regular. We need goals, assists and protection of the back four from the midfield, and he does none of those things. When we're behind or drawing, we need people with drive and energy to get forward. When we need to protect what we've got, we need rugged and physical players to get stuck in. Again, he isn't capable of these things, and slipping five yard passes to people on its own is far from being good enough. It'll be only OK if we want to finish mid table. We've had 4 years of seeing that he isn't good enough at Premier League level, and he isn't good enough for a Championship side chasing promotion. Ideally I'd like to see him sold if we can get another midfielder in.
I'm not convinced "keeping things ticking over and keeping the ball moving" is, or should be, a job in itself. It sounds very much like carrying a passenger to me. A player needs to bring more to the party than just that, especially if he can't even do that bit particularly well. People go on about the "water carrier" role and how every team is supposed to need one. I may not be recalling this correctly but I thought Cantona had coined the term to have a dig at Didier Deschamps and the French hierarchy after he was left out of various French squads. It wasn't meant to be a compliment, it was meant to criticise the preference of more limited footballers over much better players. The "every team needs one" line was trailed out as a defence of the type of player Deschamps was. I still don't see why you can't have a player who does that linking role but can also deliver set pieces, break up play, play some proper trough balls, get some tackles in, hit some shots on target and generally impose himself on the game. The other day someone described Westwood as the metronome of the team, setting the tempo. I almost laughed out loud. That's maybe what a player in his role should be doing but in terms of influencing the game, I'm afraid our Ashley is more like a garden gnome, one set in stone forever in a pointy pose.
Yes, just look as the record of Deschamps to see how insightful Cantona's criticism of him was.
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Ktvillan's got it. Westwood doesn't set the tempo, he reacts to it. If it's going in our favour he appears to do ok. If it isn't he evaporates like our Premier League hopes and dreams.
Westwood is a living metaphor for Randy Lerner's wishy-washy, reactive, hope-against-reason passivity. We must sweep it all away if we're to see anything resembling success at Villa.
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We were carrying too many passengers, Kozac,Sissoko,Bacuna Gardener and Ayew.
How we can expect to progress with this lot and Richards Lescott Hutton Gabby still on the payroll
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Having watched the game yesterday and then saw the highlights of the other matches, the thing I did notice that our tempo is far slower than the other Championship teams, although highlights can be a misleading.
Part of this slow tempo is down to lack of confidence but is mainly down to the midfield. We need players in there that when they have the ball can pass quickly or drive on with the ball and when they don't, they are always moving into better positions and almost demanding it from our own players. When we do not have possession, we need central midfield players that are either pressing to try and win back the ball or closing down space to deny the opposition passing opportunities that may hurt us. Also, out of possession they should be organising the players around them by demanding involvement.
In short, Westwood does not meet the above criteria to me. People say that he is fine at this level but not in the position he is playing. Further forward or wide may be but not in the centre where we need to dictate games. The only problem with him playing more forward or wider, he lacks pace. Even in the centre, he is not quick off the mark and results in a lot of his bookings.
We have played counter attacking football for so long now to try and survive. If we are going to get out of this division, we need to be dominating games and taking it to the opposition. Otherwise, we will fail to score the goals necessary to win enough matches.
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We were carrying too many passengers, Kozac,Sissoko,Bacuna Gardener and Ayew.
How we can expect to progress with this lot and Richards Lescott Hutton Gabby still on the payroll
Honestly credit where credit is due, Bacuna and Sissoko were fine yesterday.
edit:
Oh yeah and as Monty says, Ayew? Come on now.
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Deschamps was a canny defensive player though, a strong tackler and irritating intercepter (interceiver?). Westwood is neither of those things.
As for the idea that Ayew is a passenger...blimey.
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I thought Ayew did a lot of tracking back yesterday. Something that he has be criticised for not doing before. Perhaps decent coaching is starting to take effect.
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Ayew is a menace. He's streets ahead of this League in quality.
He should have gone up top yesterday instead of Kozak.
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Ayew is a menace. He's streets ahead of this League in quality.
He should have gone up top yesterday instead of Kozak.
We had nothing on the bench in midfield but it would have been the best option having him as the main striker even if he really isn't one. He is a very clever and technically astute player.
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Ah yes Ayew is perfect false number 9. Maybe he will play there when Morrison arrives?
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I agree. I think it's good to have the muscle and size as a backup plan, but at the moment sacrificing mobility for the targetman doesn't work for me. They look like kids dancing round a maypole.
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Statistics can be manipulated to make anyone look half decent, but where are Westwood's assists, his goals, his last ditch tackles, his shots on target, great set pieces etc etc? He just doesn't deliver, and the sooner he's gone the better.
None of which are his job. He dominated the play in the first half yesterday, enabling us to own the ball. Our play was really tidy in the opening half, from back to front, Gestede holding it up well, Grealish getting on the ball in dangerous areas. That was primarily down to Westwood, getting the ball off our defence and linking it up. Gardner was completely anonymous next to him, one shot aside. Westwood's passing was snappy, Gardner's passes were like his feet just so slow and ponderous.
Where Westwood struggles is like in the second half when Derby pushed Hughes up on him to quell his influence. His feet arent quick enough to get the ball out of tight pressure situations and if a player gets beyond him he is a passenger, like with the yellow he picked up yesterday. He is powder puff without the ball but I thought he was spiky for a welcome change early on. He went out of the game in the second half and really needs a physical presence next to him. But as a playmaker he is a decent. On the evidence of the Sheff Wed and Derby, Westwood is far from the biggest problem in the side. He was badly missed v Luton where Tshibola's lack of positional sense was woefully evident. Jedinak, Westwood and Tshibola are a decent trio all with their strengths and weaknesses.
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Ayew is a menace. He's streets ahead of this League in quality.
He should have gone up top yesterday instead of Kozak.
Agree i thought we were better when he played there, not in the game much before though.
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Prior to going up top he was taking one for the team out of position in midfield -and was still the best player on the pitch by a country mile.
Not a passenger in any way, shape or form.
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Westwood did look ok first half when we were on top but still delivered nothing of any real note in terms of incisiveness or creativity. Once Derby started to come into it in the second he seemed to vaporise again. It was a similar story in the Leicester away game last season, although to be fair he was hung out to dry by Sherwood's insane substitutions on that occasion. As for Deschamps, well his main achievements came from playing alongside the likes of Vieira, Zidane and Petit, so I'm not sure he would have been the one setting any tempo or expecting to dominate the midfield. Plus I think he had a little more to him than Cantona's jaundiced view of him suggests, whereas Westwood appears not to.