Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: N'ZMAV on July 10, 2016, 06:23:55 PM
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After seeing Murray win Wimbledon again it lead me to think who people class as Britain's greatest ever sportsman/woman.
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C. B. Fry
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C. B. Fry
I was going to say after C B Fry it would Daley Thompson.
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Andy Murray is a marvellous sportsman. In an era with two players as good as Federer and Djokovic, to have three Grand Slam titles is very good indeed. Other people worth a shout would be:
Seb Coe
Steve Redgrave
Mark Cavendish.
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Peter Withe
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Sticking to the current sportsmen Lewis Hamilton has to be in with a shout, as do Alistair Cook, Stuart Broad and Jimmy Anderson.
Greg Rutherford is worthy of discussion, to hold european, commonwealth, world and olympic titles as well as the diamond league is a pretty spectacular dominance of an event over a long period.
As an individual player Martin Johnson wasn't good enough to warrant a place but as a captain he has to worth a mention and from the same side Johnny Wilkinson has to be on the list.
Going forward I think there are a few youngsters in various sports who will additions to this in a few years time, Anthony Joshua, Adam Peaty, Joe Root, Anthony Watson and Maro Itoje all have the world at their feet right now and can be as good as they want to be.
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Botham, Johnny Wilkinson or Gary Penrice.
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There are loads you could make a case for. Gareth Edwards, Kevin Sinfield, Graham Hill, Phil Taylor, Paula Radcliffe, Steve Davis...in their own way and in their own field, dozens meet the criteria. Murray is certainly up there, no question. Tennis players are incredibly fit and have to perform at that level for three hours plus on a regular basis. To get three Slams in this era is no mean feat.
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People automatically ignore his brother Jamie who is the world's no 1 double's player.
And dont forget the likes of Chester Barnes, Tom Daley, George Best, Botham (cricket only), Virginia Wade
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There are loads you can make a case for based on their ability in one sport, but it's why Fry strolls it for me. Played in an FA Cup final and for England in football, played for the Barbarians in rugby, scored a test century for England in cricket, held the world record for long jump and was also an accomplished sprinter, hurdler, javelin chucker, ice skater and golfer.
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Jessica Ennis-Hill has to be in with a shout.
She's still going, though!
Ben Ainslie has won everything going in sailing and is current. (Sorry)
I always loved Jonathan Edwards, what more could you ask?
Likewise, Chris Hoy and Bradley Wiggins.
Jane Sixsmith. 4 Olympics. Not bad!
Depends what your definition is, because Ian Botham certainly fits the bill as well as Virginia Wade. As for the gymnasts...Beth Tweddle, Louis Smith in a sport GB doesn't usually dominate.
Torvill and Dean, of course.
Tanni Grey-Thompson.
And I haven't even started on the horses.
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George Best?
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Different era though, no one could replicate that now because the level of dedication required to get chance to do those things makes it impossible. If you want cross discipline then Vicky Pendleton has to come into the discussion, ridiculously good cycling career and now moving into a career as a jockey, still very early on but she's got a professional win under her belt a few weeks back so worth watching.
However my personal criteria is someone who has dominated a sport over of a period of years, that's why Greg Rutherford should be much higher profile than he is. he's won 5 of the last 6 majors over 4 years with the blip being when he was only half fit and probably should've withdrawn from the event. The dedication required for that is incredible and deserves recognition. If he retains the olympic title he will be on a par with Jonathan Edwards for me as the best field athletes the UK has ever produced. The one thing Rutherford is missing is a jump that is genuinely pushing the world record but I honestly believe that world record is the safest in athletics, it's a 25 year old record that replaced a 23 year old record and no one has got with 20cm of it since.
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would you put the likes of Lewis Hamilton in there? I am no lover of F1 but it takes a special talent and nerve.
Leonard Lewis in Boxing?
Will Carling in Rugby Union or Martin Ofiah in League?
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It's a bit chastening to think about this and realise how few truly great sportspeople we have produced from this country...similar to being American and trying to come up with a list of great American rock bands...
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Mary Peters, Llyn Davies, Denise Lewis, David Wilkie - not the greatest but worth a note. Jackie Stewart, Mike Hawthorn, Jim Clark. Joey Dunlop was definitely the bravest/most foolish. Best rugby players wore red dragons in the 70's.
In world terms the best has to be Lennox Lewis. Olympic gold, undisputed heavyweight champion, beat everyone, went out on top, strangely under-appreciated.
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Hard to really compare team and solo sports. I know darts is really pushing the limit of the definition of sport, but Phil Taylor would have to be mentioned.
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Mary Peters, Llyn Davies, Denise Lewis, David Wilkie - not the greatest but worth a note. Jackie Stewart, Mike Hawthorn, Jim Clark. Joey Dunlop was definitely the bravest/most foolish. Best rugby players wore red dragons in the 70's.
In world terms the best has to be Lennox Lewis. Olympic gold, undisputed heavyweight champion, beat everyone, went out on top, strangely under-appreciated.
Canadian accent probably doesn't help. Makes him seem like a gun for hire as per KP and Greg Rusedski. Unfair, in Lennox's case, as he is Cockernee by birth.
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would you put the likes of Lewis Hamilton in there? I am no lover of F1 but it takes a special talent and nerve.
Leonard Lewis in Boxing?
Will Carling in Rugby Union or Martin Ofiah in League?
I already added Hamilton, he has to be included. I did think of Lewis but as Kevin suggests the accent makes him a hard sell.
I agree with Tom that solo vs team is difficult but I refuse to accept darts (or snooker) on the very simple basis that if you can compete at the very highest level whilst having a beer (and it being totally acceptable) then you're playing a game not a sport.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
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The thing about tennis is that you spend your life in knockout tournaments so you've got to have a lot of resilience to repeatedly come back from finishing slams on a losing note. Especially, as Risso says, in Murray's case as he's playing in an era where two supernaturally talented players are vying for the trophies above him. He's got to be up there for me.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
He is the very reason I added "and it being totally acceptable" in brackets.
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William MacGregor.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
He is the very reason I added "and it being totally acceptable" in brackets.
Okay, well drinking isn't acceptable in darts or snooker and hasn't been for a very long time.
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would you put the likes of Lewis Hamilton in there? I am no lover of F1 but it takes a special talent and nerve.
Leonard Lewis in Boxing?
Will Carling in Rugby Union or Martin Ofiah in League?
I already added Hamilton, he has to be included. I did think of Lewis but as Kevin suggests the accent makes him a hard sell.
I agree with Tom that solo vs team is difficult but I refuse to accept darts (or snooker) on the very simple basis that if you can compete at the very highest level whilst having a beer (and it being totally acceptable) then you're playing a game not a sport.
Oh no I was gonna suggest Phil the Power! Chris Hoy has gotta be up there, the most successful British Olympian with an amazing 6 gold medals. Nick Faldo won 6 majors, compared to Murray's 3 to date.
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Will Carling in Rugby Union or Martin Ofiah in League?
Blimey.... Will Carling :o
He was a good player who happened to be captain and (rumour has it) friends in high places.
I wouldn't say that he was a great rugby player let alone someone to consider as Britain's greatest sportsperson
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...anyhow, the answer is CB Fry
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Will Carling in Rugby Union or Martin Ofiah in League?
Blimey.... Will Carling :o
He was a good player who happened to be captain and (rumour has it) friends in high places.
I wouldn't say that he was a great rugby player let alone someone to consider as Britain's greatest sportsperson
I agree completely, Will Carling isn't even in the top 3 greatest English centres (Guscott, Greenwood and Tindall were all better players than him).
Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
He is the very reason I added "and it being totally acceptable" in brackets.
Okay, well drinking isn't acceptable in darts or snooker and hasn't been for a very long time.
It was largely a tongue in cheek comment that I never intended to be called out on but I personally see Darts, Pool, Snooker, Bowling and a bunch of other activities as games rather than sports, that in no minimises the amount of skill involved or the dedication people have to them though.
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There are loads you can make a case for based on their ability in one sport, but it's why Fry strolls it for me. Played in an FA Cup final and for England in football, played for the Barbarians in rugby, scored a test century for England in cricket, held the world record for long jump and was also an accomplished sprinter, hurdler, javelin chucker, ice skater and golfer.
not forgetting his contribution to the world of art.....as a nude model!
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No CB Fry for me. It should be someone who is the best at their sport. Not someone who is quite good at lots of sports.
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There are loads you can make a case for based on their ability in one sport, but it's why Fry strolls it for me. Played in an FA Cup final and for England in football, played for the Barbarians in rugby, scored a test century for England in cricket, held the world record for long jump and was also an accomplished sprinter, hurdler, javelin chucker, ice skater and golfer.
Shit at curling though
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...anyhow, the answer is CB Fry
I agree . At Midlands level however it would have to be our captain, legend, leader John Devey. Football Cricket,Baseball, Athletics he excelled at them all.
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No CB Fry for me. It should be someone who is the best at their sport. Not someone who is quite good at lots of sports.
Like being a world record holder?
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Loads of people have done that. Roy Castle's show would've only had one episode otherwise.
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Also, he only shared the record and it was beaten within a year.
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That's some quality barrel scraping! ;)
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Going by cd's reading (which also rules out Daley Thompson) and also ignoring pub games / competitive arts, is there any British person who is the best ever in the world at their main sport ?
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Seb Coe? Then again he did different distances so he's out!
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I think professionalism is the important thing, people before the professional era of sport just can't be counted for me because they were competing in such a niche era that their achievements are impossible to compare to modern athletes. For that reason I personally wouldn't include anyone from before WW2 in the discussion.
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To me that's a bit like saying only football after 1992 counts as the level of professionalism now is so far ahead of what it was even in the 80s. You can only compete with what's around you at the time. No one in any era has come close to achieving what Fry did. I don't agree with dismissing Fry just because of when he was born when he was without doubt a superb sportsman. You may as well dismiss Devey, Walker etc as amongst the best ever to play for Villa because of when they were playing.
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Going by cd's reading (which also rules out Daley Thompson) and also ignoring pub games / competitive arts, is there any British person who is the best ever in the world at their main sport ?
It doesn't rule out Daley Thompson as he was the best at one sport, albeit one with lots of elements.
I'm not sure I'd go for him though. He had the advantage of competing in the boycott era, not sure if any Commie/Yank athletes would've beaten him otherwise though.
Anyway. I think the correct answer may be Steve Redgrave. Five gold medals in a format that only realistically allows one medal per event (not like, say, swimming where they give out medals like sweets) is some going.
Or maybe Jonathan Edwards. World record and Olympic Champion.
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To me that's a bit like saying only football after 1992 counts as the level of professionalism now is so far ahead of what it was even in the 80s. You can only compete with what's around you at the time. No one in any era has come close to achieving what Fry did. I don't agree with dismissing Fry just because of when he was born when he was without doubt a superb sportsman. You may as well dismiss Devey, Walker etc as amongst the best ever to play for Villa because of when they were playing.
As I say it's a personal opinion but I just think the differences are too big. Take cricket players from the era of uncovered pitches had to deal with completely different circumstances, trying to compare the 2 is almost impossible. How about cycling, athletics and swimming performance levels are almost universal in an upward trend in those sports, does that mean the current competitors are the best ever or does the enhancements in equipment and training techniques give them an advantage that was unavailable in the past?
In many sports comparing the current generation to the previous one is tough, going back a century or more and it becomes near impossible to be entirely subjective about your decision. If you add to that the differences in the availability and quality of footage it becomes a near impossible task.
For example who's the best out of Yashin, Banks, Schmeichel and Buffon? Making a case between the last 2 becomes fairly simple because you could probably find footage of 70-80% of their careers if you really wanted to. For Banks you might have 40-50 games and for Yashin there's probably 10-15 games worth of usable footage. If You can categorically say Banks was the best of those then he becomes a name for this discussion but I honestly don't think it's possible.
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Mark Cavendish would be a much more widely celebrated sportsmen in many other countries.
What he has come back to achieve this year has elevated him to the highest levels of sporting greatness.
If he can get himself gold in Rio he should be a very real contender in this list.
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Going by cd's reading (which also rules out Daley Thompson) and also ignoring pub games / competitive arts, is there any British person who is the best ever in the world at their main sport ?
It doesn't rule out Daley Thompson as he was the best at one sport, albeit one with lots of elements.
I'm not sure I'd go for him though. He had the advantage of competing in the boycott era, not sure if any Commie/Yank athletes would've beaten him otherwise though.
Anyway. I think the correct answer may be Steve Redgrave. Five gold medals in a format that only realistically allows one medal per event (not like, say, swimming where they give out medals like sweets) is some going.
Or maybe Jonathan Edwards. World record and Olympic Champion.
Daley Thompson won gold at the 1983 World Championships which weren't boycotted and his main rival was Jurgen Hingsen, a West German who was in Los Angeles in 1984 but not Moscow in 1980. I agree about Steve Redgrave and Jonathan Edwards though. Edwards' clean world record still standing after 21 years is quite an achievement.
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The sign I pass every day on New Road cricket ground - R.E. 'Tip' Foster, the only man to captain England at football and cricket. He's got to deserve a nod just for that. Or a tip of the hat, if you will.
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Of course the differences are big in how they trained, equipment etc, but just saying they don't count because of the era they were born is bizarre imo. It's like saying Bradman can never be considered the greatest cricketer, Babe Ruth the greatest baseball player and so just because of when they were born.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
Being Irish would be the disqualifier
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After Charlie Atkin it has to be Iron Bottom.
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C. B. Fry
I was going to say after C B Fry it would Daley Thompson.
Thompson was mediocre at 10 events.
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Decathlon is one event, split into ten disciplines. That's like saying Pele can't be one of the best because he was mediocre at goalkeeping.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
Being Irish would be the disqualifier
More British than Lennox Lewis who has already been mentioned.
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Decathlon is one event, split into ten disciplines. That's like saying Pele can't be one of the best because he was mediocre at goalkeeping.
He wouldn't have won a medal in any of those at Olympic games.
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No but he won the decathlon, which is the event he took part in.
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I do think that we tendency to underestimate the incredible range of sporting skill involved in tennis.
Speed and stamina, strength and agility, fitness, co-ordination, control, quick thinking. The sheer athleticism of being out there testing you body in so many different ways over such a period of time.
I'm not even a massive tennis fan, but there is so much more to it than being a runner, a jumper or a swimmer. For that reason, the best tennis player has to be up there.
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True, but much as I like Murray, he isn't the best tennis player. He's never been number one. Admittedly he has had some ridiculously good opposition.
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Going by cd's reading (which also rules out Daley Thompson) and also ignoring pub games / competitive arts, is there any British person who is the best ever in the world at their main sport ?
Definitely Snooker.Whoever you choose would be a Brit
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Bobby Charlton and Bobby Moore . Ryan Giggs is in modern era.
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Get out.
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I know current sports people often get overlooked in these debates and that he wasn't born in the UK, but Mo Farah's achievements have been pretty outstanding. You would probably have to include A P McCoy as well.
I think if we are talking truly world dominant British sports people, then we would probably have to go back to the Victorian era really. In the space of a decade in the 1880's, William Renshaw of Leamington Spa won 7 Wimbledon singles titles (six in a row and missed one year due to injury - tennis elbow) and 5 Wimbledon doubles titles with his twin brother Ernest.
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Picking up on longevity, Richard Meade is still reckoned the most successful British Olympic rider, as he was in 4 Games and picked up individual as well as team medals, including gold. He won national and international competitions apart from those, as well.
Gave a lot back to his sport, as well.
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I wouldn't include any riding or driving people simply because the horse/vehicle does most of the work.
If we are counting animals Red Rum must be a contender.
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Red Rum is no Mick the Miller.
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Red Rum wins because Mick the Miller never appeared in The Shining.
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Was Paul McGrath not playing a sport then?
Being Irish would be the disqualifier
More British than Lennox Lewis who has already been mentioned.
Lennox Lewis was born in England and lived here until he was twelve. I'm not sure how you could consider McGrath to be more British, I'm sure he wouldn't consider himself as such.
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McGrath was born in England. Of course he is Irish though. I had assumed Lewis was brought up in Canada, just going by the accent. Happy to be corrected.
Still wouldn't consider him the greatest British sportsperson. I think you'd have to be one of the greatest ever in your sport for that but, while he was undoubtedly brilliant, he's not talked about as being in the same class as Marciano, Ali, Robinson or Audley.
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Ryan Giggs in modern era of football and sport. No one comes close. Giggs has 34 trophies for Manchester United. It includes 13 Premier League titles, four FA Cups, three League Cups and nine Community Shields in England. He has also won two Champions League titles and a Club World Cup in a career over 24 seasons. He scored in almost every Premier League season except his final season retired at 40.
Certainly no uk footballer would ever match that
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There's also the question of whether by 'Britain' you mean the island of Great Britain (which would exclude Cav) or the British Isles (which would include anyone born in Ireland)
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Ryan Giggs in modern era of football and sport. No one comes close. Giggs has 34 trophies for Manchester United. It includes 13 Premier League titles, four FA Cups, three League Cups and nine Community Shields in England. He has also won two Champions League titles and a Club World Cup in a career over 24 seasons. He scored in almost every Premier League season except his final season retired at 40.
Certainly no uk footballer would ever match that
He wasn't anywhere near being the best player or his era let alone all time. He shouldn't be a candidate when Britain has better ones.
If longevity is the main criteria then Stanley Matthews wins.
Giggs won a lot more but that's because he was in the best team, not because he was the best player. I'm not saying he wasn't a very good footballer, but best Brit ever? Not a chance.
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When you think about it we really have had very few really great sportspersons.
But it is difficult to ignore:
Nick Faldo
Jackie Stewart
George Best - possibly.
Bradley Wiggins
Mo Farah
Ben Ainslie
But I think Andy Murray and Lewis Hamilton will get there.
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Toxteth Ogrady, alleged American but was British really.
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No but he won the decathlon, which is the event he took part in.
He was a good enough sprinter run the 1st leg of the 4x100m on numerous occasions, including LA '84 sprint relay final if I remember correctly.
At one of his early AAA finals his decathlon long jump was good enough to have won the long jump title.
I'd never underestimate anyone that could drag their body through 10 events in 2 days at anything approaching a respectable standard.
My last year at school I got persuaded to do 110m hurdles, 400m and javelin at some end of school year athletics tournament at Hadley Stadium in Bearwood/Cape Hill. This was in the days when I was juggling swimming, football and junior (full contact) American football and felt like I could run through brick walls. I was absolutely fubar by the time I'd thrown the last javelin.
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It's a difficult call but my choice is Steve Redgrave. To win that many Olympic gold medals in consecutive games is remarkable.
Botham, Wilkinson and Daley Thompson were others I considered.
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No to Botham. If he was that good, England wouldn't have lost virtually any match they played against the West Indies.
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No to Botham. If he was that good, England wouldn't have lost virtually any match they played against the West Indies.
God, yeah. No to Botham, then.
What about Paula Radcliffe?
( dreadful at WK)
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No to Botham. If he was that good, England wouldn't have lost virtually any match they played against the West Indies.
Yeah, but we are talking the West Indies pace attack here. They were got me into watching cricket, such awesome. poetic brutality.
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Of course. They were the best ever, and much better than Botham so he can't have been the best ever.
Of course, being the best Briton doesn't necessarily mean you're the best in the World. However, given the sheer number of events we compete in and the fact that we do quite well in many of them, I think the best British sportsperson should be recognised as among the greatest, if not the greatest, in their given field. I wouldn't even have Botham in an all-time XI. He'd be behind Sobers, Khan, Kallis and maybe the New Zealand bloke who's name I always forget in the battle for all-rounders' spots.
Still struggling to think of who fits the criteria though. Maybe Phil Taylor. Nobody has dominated like him. It's just a shame I can't stand him.
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Of course. They were the best ever, and much better than Botham so he can't have been the best ever.
Of course, being the best Briton doesn't necessarily mean you're the best in the World. However, given the sheer number of events we compete in and the fact that we do quite well in many of them, I think the best British sportsperson should be recognised as among the greatest, if not the greatest, in their given field. I wouldn't even have Botham in an all-time XI. He'd be behind Sobers, Khan, Kallis and maybe the New Zealand bloke who's name I always forget in the battle for all-rounders' spots.
Still struggling to think of who fits the criteria though. Maybe Phil Taylor. Nobody has dominated like him. It's just a shame I can't stand him.
Jocky Wilson?
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Jocky Wilson was a New Zealand cricket player?
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Not in the same league.
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Jocky Wilson was a New Zealand cricket player?
I think so. Dexys Midnight Runners were big Kiwi fans.
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Is the cricketer Hadlee? Never been a big cricket fan but a name I remember hearing as a nipper. I could google it but that's cheating, plus it will be amusing if i'm wrong and Hadlee is an Aussie or summat.
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Yep. Richard Hadlee. For some reason I always forget his name.
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Funny, I thought there would be a stand out somewhere considering that we invented most sports and do quite well, but no!
It's a bit like being American and trying to name your best rock and roll band...
If we are thinking about truly global sports, we have to exclude cricket, rugby, bowls, snooker, tiddlywinks. World sports include football, athletics, swimming, tennis, cycling?
What about George Best/Jimmy Greaves/Gordon Banks, Mo Farah/Paula Radcliffe/Daley Thompson/Seb Coe, -no swimmers-, Andy Murray, Wiggins/Cavendish/Hoy/Boardman
Or Lester Piggott?
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I do think that we tendency to underestimate the incredible range of sporting skill involved in tennis.
Speed and stamina, strength and agility, fitness, co-ordination, control, quick thinking. The sheer athleticism of being out there testing you body in so many different ways over such a period of time.
I'm not even a massive tennis fan, but there is so much more to it than being a runner, a jumper or a swimmer. For that reason, the best tennis player has to be up there.
Agree. I just can't imagine the range of skills required for a gruelling five set game on an indoor court or on a clay court. When you hear about the amount of weight some of them lose over a the course of a match like that, it is quite frightening.
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Sebastian Coe. Two Olympic 1500m golds, 2 Olympic 800m silvers. Something like 12 out door world records, including the 800m world record in 1981 at 1:41:73 which stood for 16 years - even today very few athletes have run below 1:42. Take a look at Coe on YouTube - his finishing kick is different class. Mo Farah should also be in the mix.
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Funny, I thought there would be a stand out somewhere considering that we invented most sports and do quite well, but no!
It's a bit like being American and trying to name your best rock and roll band...
If we are thinking about truly global sports, we have to exclude cricket, rugby, bowls, snooker, tiddlywinks. World sports include football, athletics, swimming, tennis, cycling?
What about George Best/Jimmy Greaves/Gordon Banks, Mo Farah/Paula Radcliffe/Daley Thompson/Seb Coe, -no swimmers-, Andy Murray, Wiggins/Cavendish/Hoy/Boardman
Or Lester Piggott?
Football is the only global sport.
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Football and Basketball
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If he wins another gold medal what about Alistair Brownlee? He is an outstanding athlete.
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Funny, I thought there would be a stand out somewhere considering that we invented most sports and do quite well, but no!
It's a bit like being American and trying to name your best rock and roll band...
If we are thinking about truly global sports, we have to exclude cricket, rugby, bowls, snooker, tiddlywinks. World sports include football, athletics, swimming, tennis, cycling?
What about George Best/Jimmy Greaves/Gordon Banks, Mo Farah/Paula Radcliffe/Daley Thompson/Seb Coe, -no swimmers-, Andy Murray, Wiggins/Cavendish/Hoy/Boardman
Or Lester Piggott?
No swimmers, harsh on Adam Peaty who has a phenomenal record so far and will certainly be regarded as our best ever Swimmer within a few years. Becky Adlington was very good as well and is certainly worthy of mention.
On a slight tangent the Brownlees probably both deserve a mention in this as well.
On the broader point I don't think the sport has to be completely global, it just needs to be above a certain standard of competitiveness to be worth mentioning. Cricket and Rugby for example are clearly worth discussion in this even if they're only played at elite level by 10-20 countries.
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Some good names being offered, but one I haven't seen is Joe Calzaghe. Retired 45-0, but I guess the one thing that could be labelled at him is the standard of opponents he fought. Missed prime era Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins and fought Hopkins and Roy Jones in the twilight of their respective careers.
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Some good names being offered, but one I haven't seen is Joe Calzaghe. Retired 45-0, but I guess the one thing that could be labelled at him is the standard of opponents he fought. Missed prime era Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins and fought Hopkins and Roy Jones in the twilight of their respective careers.
Yeah that's why i didn't name him, he was good but it's hard to know how good because he didn't fight anyone world class whilst they were in their prime.
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Some good names being offered, but one I haven't seen is Joe Calzaghe. Retired 45-0, but I guess the one thing that could be labelled at him is the standard of opponents he fought. Missed prime era Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins and fought Hopkins and Roy Jones in the twilight of their respective careers.
Yeah that's why i didn't name him, he was good but it's hard to know how good because he didn't fight anyone world class whilst they were in their prime.
Jeff Lacy was world class and in his prime when Calzaghe fought him. Calzaghe destroyed him
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Some good names being offered, but one I haven't seen is Joe Calzaghe. Retired 45-0, but I guess the one thing that could be labelled at him is the standard of opponents he fought. Missed prime era Eubank, Benn, Watson and Collins and fought Hopkins and Roy Jones in the twilight of their respective careers.
Yeah that's why i didn't name him, he was good but it's hard to know how good because he didn't fight anyone world class whilst they were in their prime.
Jeff Lacy was world class and in his prime when Calzaghe fought him. Calzaghe destroyed him
That was probably his career defining fight and Lacy was the clear favourite going into it. I would also say that he fought Kessler at his peak who was also a good fighter. I was a big fan of Calzaghe though and he was a terrific boxer, but I've heard him even admit that he considered pulling out of the fight with Lacy and basically had to be talked into it. I think that reluctance to fight the very best (even though there weren't too many stellar names around in that division at the time) counts against him really. Carl Froch deserves a nod, as he fought everyone in the division pretty much back-to-back and mostly away from home.
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No to Botham. If he was that good, England wouldn't have lost virtually any match they played against the West Indies.
Yeah, but we are talking the West Indies pace attack here. They were got me into watching cricket, such awesome. poetic brutality.
My sister worked in a shoe shop in Northampton when she was a teenager in the late 80s, and Curtly Ambrose went in one day. He had something like size 15 feet, so was told they couldn't help him.
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If overcoming seemingly impossible obstacles on your way to the top fits as one of the criteria, then Basil D'Oliveira's yer man!
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As Froome is on his way towards his 3rd Tour De France, then he has to enter the equation
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I'd like to nominate Linford Christie.
He was so exciting to watch and won *that* race against Carl Lewis, then the fastest man in the world, at Gateshead in 1993.
I remember it because I was sharing a house with an American teacher, at the time. We were on the sofa, yelling, 'Christie!', 'USA, USA!', eating crisps and downing lager throughout the lead up to the race.
When Christie won, the crisps went everywhere!
I can't remember getting that excited about a sprinter until Usain Bolt, quite frankly.
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would you put the likes of Lewis Hamilton in there? I am no lover of F1 but it takes a special talent and nerve.
M
No, f1 is far too much about the car, that Mercedes is more the star than the driver & a dozen of them would be in the top two if they drove it
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I'd place Max Woosnam and Lottie Dod comfortably ahead of CB Fry.
Sarah Storey is my personal shout.
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In a niche sport admittedly...Ben Ainslie?
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In a niche sport admittedly...Ben Ainslie?
Worth a shout.
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CB Fry was born about 5 mins away from where I live. Blue plaque an everyfin.
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The answer is Matthew Pinsent.
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I'd need some convincing that Pinsent is better than Redgrave... though I don't claim to be any expert on rowing.
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Mark Cavendish
Chris Froome
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Until Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
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Until Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
IMO far too much importance is placed on the Olympics.
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Yeah, it's only the biggest sporting event in the World.
It's no Peace Cup.
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Its the strange choice of events that annoys me and the way they'e hyped every four years but few care the rest of the time.
Somewhere on this forum should be my review of each sport's place in the games and a plan for a three Olympic games system
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I do think some sports (I'm thinking swimming here) get too many medals.
Fairest way to decide the medal table would be 4 points for a gold, 2 for a silver and 1 for a bronze. At the end of each sport the points would be divided by the total number of disciplines. So if swimming hands out forty gold medals, you divide by forty.
Have the Winter Olympics in the same year and merge the medal table. Get a fairer view of which is top nation that way.
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Oh, and put cricket in and get rid of either baseball or softball because they're the same as each other.
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Yeah, it's only the biggest sporting event in the World.
It's no Peace Cup.
But for road cyclists it isn't the biggest event, that's the Grand Tours.
See also golfers, footballers, tennis players etc.
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Yeah, it's only the biggest sporting event in the World.
It's no Peace Cup.
But for road cyclists it isn't the biggest event, that's the Grand Tours.
See also golfers, footballers, tennis players etc.
to a point. the Grand tours are only the biggest event for the road racers not all cyclists.
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Yeah, it's only the biggest sporting event in the World.
It's no Peace Cup.
But for road cyclists it isn't the biggest event, that's the Grand Tours.
See also golfers, footballers, tennis players etc.
to a point. the Grand tours are only the biggest event for the road racers not all cyclists.
Which will be why I put the word "road" in my post!
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You should have put it in bold and/or capitals. Only yourself to blame.
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Until Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
CvnedisUntil Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
That's a bit unfair, because the road racing is a completely different event to the track events and I would argue is subject to more elements than just being the fastest rider, it's more of a team event than anything. Pendleton also got to ride in more than one event.
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Until Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
CvnedisUntil Cavendish & Froome (who incidentally represented Kenya at the 2012 Olympics) do it on the Olympic stage then they won't get the recognition that Hoy, Pendleton or Wiggins get.
That's a bit unfair, because the road racing is a completely different event to the track events and I would argue is subject to more elements than just being the fastest rider, it's more of a team event than anything. Pendleton also got to ride in more than one event.
There are team track events (team pursuit) and Hoy, Wiggins et al have all rode more than one event at Olympic Games.