Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Tony Erdington on June 02, 2015, 01:45:13 PM
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I heard a rumour that Cleverley was signing for everton? I don't know, so ive looked on sky sports transfer site, and true enough their spouting that talks are going well between respective parties, Does any one on here know any diferent or is this the state of play, and cleverly is going to everton???
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It has been his very poorly disguised plan since last September when Everton messed United about on terms. For his wages I expect more than 4 weeks of decent form. Surely we can find better.
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Happy if he stays on, indifferent if he leaves. If we scout well enough, I bet the transfer fee + lower wages would net us a better player at a smaller cost than paying him the 40+k/week I suspect he'll want plus a signing-on fee.
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Just been on SSN that he is in talks with Everton and 2 other clubs. No mention of any negotiations with Villa.
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If we can get him good. If not, we can find better. I do wonder if someone a bit more creative and technically gifted might be better. We could do with someone with an eye for a pass more than industrious. Delph gives us industry.
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Not interested in him at all, for £50k+ minimum there are better players for cheaper.
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I'd be happy to have him at the club he's a good player and we're light on them, but I doubt he'll sign for us.
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Feel pretty disappointed that he doesn't see us as an attractive enough proposition to stick around. Particularly as Tim was getting the best out of him and he was forming a strong partnership with Delph.
It's difficult to slate him - in the end he made a significant contribution to keeping us up. But I do feel a bit let down.
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No point getting carried away. He knows exactly what he has with us and that as he has already clearly stated is a very important factor. He's right doing his due diligence as a free agent and researching his options. He played superbly for a good spell and has developed a solid relationship with Delph. I want him to stay and think he'll be a very good player for us next year.
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See ya *waves*
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So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, adieu.......fuck him if he wants off..
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On the SSN app, the headline led with him talking to Everton but the story named us as one of the clubs he's talking to. Just seems like media bias, they've hyped Everton. If it had been someone other than Sherwood come in it would have probably been an easy decision for him. Hopefully he's got a bit to think about because Sherwood has taken him from nowhere to the verge of the England squad in a matter of months.
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No point getting carried away. He knows exactly what he has with us and that as he has already clearly stated is a very important factor. He's right doing his due diligence as a free agent and researching his options
Precisely.
If you were him and were free to sign for any club who was willing to offer you a contract, is there any reason that you wouldn't at least see what other offers were on the table?
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He should see staying at Villa as a very good option as Tim has given him the freedom to burst into the box to score the odd goal and get his form back. Hopefully either way it will be sorted soon.
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I wonder what a player like Cleverley would do if Bournmouth saw him as a good option on a free and with the prem money they will have offered him a lot better deal than other clubs on a 4 year contract
Be interesting to see how he would spin that one in his I'm not moving for money interview
( I'm only surmising here not actually suggesting Bournmouth could be interested in him)
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Seemed happy with his situation at Villa Park but he is a northerner and Everton is in the north so it probably depends on the money his agent will attempt to negotiate for him.
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Surely we have enough players who need replacing without having to replace him as well.
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I think he will stay, he has a manager that has faith in him and looks like he is enjoying it.
Yes his agent is a Dick (aren't they all) but I can not see why he would leave.
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Seemed happy with his situation at Villa Park but he is a northerner and Everton is in the north so it probably depends on the money his agent will attempt to negotiate for him.
I thought he was originally from down south? Anyway, being a Manchester United player, he is likely to be based in Cheshire, so a move to Everton would probably suit him. I am pretty much resigned to the fact that he isn't going to sign for us.
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I believe he is from Bradford, like Delph. Lives near the Everton training ground apparently. Might suit his family to stay there.
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I'm pretty sure we will now lose both Cleverley and Benteke. May be I'm just being negative after what happened at the weekend but the fallout will inevitably affect the players, and if they have the opportunity to go to a club that will pay them more and be part of a better team higher up the league table then its a bit of a no brainer. TS may have an even bigger rebuilding job on his hands than we first expected if we're to avoid relegation next season.
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I believe he is from Bradford, like Delph. Lives near the Everton training ground apparently. Might suit his family to stay there.
They were both in the Bradford kids teams together, apparently they used to lift share and everything.
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I'm not sure I want him to stay. Only a handful of decent performances. I can remember watching when we played Blackpool in cup and thinking he was shite. Is he on a free?
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Seemed happy with his situation at Villa Park but he is a northerner and Everton is in the north so it probably depends on the money his agent will attempt to negotiate for him.
Basingstoke ? Northerner?
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As per Wiki, born in Basingstoke but grew up in Bradford.
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It has been his very poorly disguised plan since last September when Everton messed United about on terms. For his wages I expect more than 4 weeks of decent form. Surely we can find better.
Who? And for what price?
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You would have to expect that Tom will be offered a 5 yr deal with signing on bonus and £60k a week. That's at least £15m.... I think we can find better.
Over to you scouts....
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As per Wiki, born in Basingstoke but grew up in Bradford.
Christ, that's a raw combination, fair play he's come through the hard way.
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You would have to expect that Tom will be offered a 5 yr deal with signing on bonus and £60k a week. That's at least £15m.... I think we can find better.
Over to you scouts....
Given the much-publicised new telly money, I reckon we'd do very well to get better for less. I think your figures are gonna be, unfortunately, around the benchmark for anybody of Premier League quality.
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I only want him to sign for Villa because he's on a free transfer. If we had to pay a fee for him i am fairly sure we'd pass. Fair? Or not?
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4-6 good games under Sherwood should not disguise the fact that he was totally abysmal, I mean truly bloody awful, for 30 games before it and for the last 3 games of the season. If he chooses to come here then fair enough, but I genuinely refuse to believe that there is not a better option out there somewhere.
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4-6 good games under Sherwood should not disguise the fact that he was totally abysmal, I mean truly bloody awful, for 30 games before it and for the last 3 games of the season. If he chooses to come here then fair enough, but I genuinely refuse to believe that there is not a better option out there somewhere.
There are better options out there certainly. Not necessarily on free transfers though. But of course his wage demands are another issue. On 40k it's alright. But if he wants close to what he's getting at Utd, then I'd look elsewhere (cause he'd go to Everton for that).
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4-6 good games under Sherwood should not disguise the fact that he was totally abysmal, I mean truly bloody awful, for 30 games before it and for the last 3 games of the season. If he chooses to come here then fair enough, but I genuinely refuse to believe that there is not a better option out there somewhere.
There are better options out there certainly. Not necessarily on free transfers though. But of course his wage demands are another issue. On 40k it's alright. But if he wants close to what he's getting at Utd, then I'd look elsewhere (cause he'd go to Everton for that).
If he signs for us it would probably be on a 4 year contract that seems the normal for Villa. If we pay him £60k a week, that would be around £12m. Compare that with buying somebody for £4m and then paying £40k a week. Forget for a moment that we are talking about Cleverley and just look at the money. Which looks to be getting the better player. The downside is the effect of £60k a week on others in the squad.
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4-6 good games under Sherwood should not disguise the fact that he was totally abysmal, I mean truly bloody awful, for 30 games before it and for the last 3 games of the season. If he chooses to come here then fair enough, but I genuinely refuse to believe that there is not a better option out there somewhere.
There are better options out there certainly. Not necessarily on free transfers though. But of course his wage demands are another issue. On 40k it's alright. But if he wants close to what he's getting at Utd, then I'd look elsewhere (cause he'd go to Everton for that).
If he signs for us it would probably be on a 4 year contract that seems the normal for Villa. If we pay him £60k a week, that would be around £12m. Compare that with buying somebody for £4m and then paying £40k a week. Forget for a moment that we are talking about Cleverley and just look at the money. Which looks to be getting the better player. The downside is the effect of £60k a week on others in the squad.
That's a good comparison. My maths gets to roughly the same number.
The big question is what does 4m buy you nowadays? Would that player be ready for the first team?
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4-6 good games under Sherwood should not disguise the fact that he was totally abysmal, I mean truly bloody awful, for 30 games before it and for the last 3 games of the season. If he chooses to come here then fair enough, but I genuinely refuse to believe that there is not a better option out there somewhere.
There are better options out there certainly. Not necessarily on free transfers though. But of course his wage demands are another issue. On 40k it's alright. But if he wants close to what he's getting at Utd, then I'd look elsewhere (cause he'd go to Everton for that).
If he signs for us it would probably be on a 4 year contract that seems the normal for Villa. If we pay him £60k a week, that would be around £12m. Compare that with buying somebody for £4m and then paying £40k a week. Forget for a moment that we are talking about Cleverley and just look at the money. Which looks to be getting the better player. The downside is the effect of £60k a week on others in the squad.
That's a good comparison. My maths gets to roughly the same number.
The big question is what does 4m buy you nowadays? Would that player be ready for the first team?
the big plus with Cleverley is that there is no transfer fee. My concern is that he may want too much money which upsets the wages structure of the squad.
There was an interesting comment from him today in that he likes working with Sherwood, which sounds as though he does not want to burn any bridges. He may just be talking to Everton (if he actually is) to try and up an offer from us.
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It has been and always will be about the money with Cleverley so I fully expect him to sign for someone else...happy to proved wrong.
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It has been and always will be about the money with Cleverley so I fully expect him to sign for someone else...happy to proved wrong.
On what basis?
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Times reporting he'll sign for Everton this week. 5 year deal
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Oh well ...
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If true it sounds like location is his biggest priority and doesn't want to move from his home.
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Shock horror. He basically refused a permanent deal here to try and force a loan move there. He only came back because United stopped Everton taking the piss with it. I am sure he will do great there but for literally 4 good and a couple of decent games in 38, for 60k a week I am not sad about it. Cynic in me thinks he did just enough to ensure a top wage at Everton.
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I was fickle enough to think we should now sign him. Now i think about it objectively he really only played well for a very short period of time. Everyone was shit under lambert, granted, but those last 3 games ... Wow.
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It has been and always will be about the money with Cleverley so I fully expect him to sign for someone else...happy to proved wrong.
On what basis?
I presume you're referring to the comment about money? Pretty sure I could dig out some not so favourable quotes regarding his previous contract negotiations if I could be bothered...or may be I imagined all the comments about his salary demands?
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It has been and always will be about the money with Cleverley so I fully expect him to sign for someone else...happy to proved wrong.
On what basis?
I presume you're referring to the comment about money? Pretty sure I could dig out some not so favourable quotes regarding his previous contract negotiations if I could be bothered...or may be I imagined all the comments about his salary demands?
There was the issue of not agreeing to sign on a permanent deal at the start of the season and ended up on loan. I would put that down to the limited time to get to an agreement. At Utd he was on £70k a week with add-ons and he wanted £60k to come to us. Any player transferring to another club has the right to negotiate on wages. I would not say the £60k was outrageous if he believed he could get back to the level he was at with Utd a couple of seasons ago, it was just more than we wanted to pay. I do not put that in the category of 'It has been and always will be about the money with Cleverley'
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I see this thread has been inundated with suggestions of better alternative signings
What a massive job Tim has this summer. Huge.
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By and large he has disappointed for us. However, his winning goals in the Everton and West Ham games proved to be a very major factor in our staying up.
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Can't blame him for getting the best deal for himself
Don't think there's anyone with eyes who would claim he didn't give his all or care. Probably celebrated team mates goals more than any other player
Let's hope Gardner is ready to step up
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When you've got an owner that won't spend, a team that's been overtaken by Southampton (in administration 5 years ago), crystal palace, stoke, west ham. Spurs, Everton over the last few years I guess we are becoming a harder sell for 'big' players.
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When you've got an owner that won't spend, a team that's been overtaken by Southampton (in administration 5 years ago), crystal palace, stoke, west ham. Spurs, Everton over the last few years I guess we are becoming a harder sell for 'big' players.
Add Swansea and West Brom to that. A damning indictment on how poorly Lerner has run the club.
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I had no qualms with Tom. Not a single player improved or met their potential within Paul's portion of the season. I think he's a pretty good, premier league midfielder.. and to be honest we're lucky to have that with the way our club operates. Good for him, he doesn't owe us anything. All everyone did was complain about him anyway.
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if people complained it was because he was mainly very disappointing and made it unequivocally clear at times that he didn't really want to be here. The idea of Everton being his final destination was touted pretty early on in his loan period. A few very good games late on, but by and large didn't cut the mustard for me.
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Ah well, I thought that himself and Delph would develop into into a decent midfield pairing. I suppose we can't compete with giants of the game like Everton anymore. Only joking. The lad didn't want to be here from day one. Got us a few important goals at the end of the season. Sherwood has his work cut out this summer. After the last six or seven seasons the club are a hard sell to prospective players at the moment.
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Shame, I think. He was gash at times, but very good latterly.
Still if it needed a 5 year deal to seal it, glad we didn't. We know what happens when we dish out 5 year deals. He doesn't warrant that big a contract IMO.
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Shame, I think. He was gash at times, but very good latterly.
Still if it needed a 5 year deal to seal it, glad we didn't. We know what happens when we dish out 5 year deals. He doesn't warrant that big a contract IMO.
Good point.
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Great! Another player they will no doubt come back and score against us.
How are these gaps going to be filled without serious investment?
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No disrespect to Everton who are a fine club, but if we cant compete with them, then that worries me far more than losing a player, who, after all said and done, only played about half-a-dozen decent games for us in the entire season.
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Everton picked up considerably more PL money last season than us. The last two defeats cost us a fair few million £.
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And if true, so yet another summer of upheaval and challenges in the market awaits.
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Fuck the fucker.
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I thought he was our most improved player from the time of the change of manager. Benteke too obviously, but we all knew what he was capable of. He obviously likes playing for Martinez, but I don't remember him particularly standing out during his time under him on loan at Wigan.
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That's a real blow. I was hopeful of seeing how Sherwood would develop the midfield around Cleverley and Delph. There was enough in the last couple of months to suggest there was real potential - now he has pretty much got to rebuild from scratch.
Agree that he has a monumental task to rebuild the squad and of course now has to use part of whatever budget he had to find a replacement.
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When you've got an owner that won't spend, a team that's been overtaken by Southampton (in administration 5 years ago), crystal palace, stoke, west ham. Spurs, Everton over the last few years I guess we are becoming a harder sell for 'big' players.
Add Swansea and West Brom to that. A damning indictment on how poorly Lerner has run the club.
It may just be post-Wembley blues but this is how I feel at the moment. Really cheesed off this morning. Not because I'm that bothered about Tom Cleverley in isolation but the more because the whole mood music coming out of the club at present feels a bit rubbish. The list of clubs we appear to have abandoned any pretence of trying to compete with seems to be getting longer and longer. What exactly is the sodding point?
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Cant say I blame you. I keep trying to look on the bright side but then our annual relegation battle kicks in, no sooner is that done than our annual "good players don't want to stay or join" season starts.
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No great loss - one of many English players this century who seemed to have 5 or 6 goodish games and then sited as the next great thing.
Seemed to start with Kieron Dyer and there have been many many other since.
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Not all that bothered given the number of shifts he actually put in, weighed up against the likely size of his wage demands.
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Hardly the end of the world. Just another body that needs replacing. ...With better.
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That's a real blow. I was hopeful of seeing how Sherwood would develop the midfield around Cleverley and Delph. There was enough in the last couple of months to suggest there was real potential - now he has pretty much got to rebuild from scratch.
Agree that he has a monumental task to rebuild the squad and of course now has to use part of whatever budget he had to find a replacement.
I agree Nick. The clincher for me was that he was on a free transfer and we now face the prospect of having to pay a considerable amount of money to find a replacement.
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Still waiting for any actual suggested better alternatives
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I'm a bit disappointed as after West Ham I honestly thought he'd stay. A real test for Lerner now to back TS properly.
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Still waiting for any actual suggested better alternatives
When I become a scout for a premier league side I will give you 3 pages of players who could score and assist more than TC23 for the wages he is going to be getting. On a 5 year deal it is silly money.
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Hardly the end of the world. Just another body that needs replacing. ...With better.
Well that's easier said than done. Especially with our record under Lerner over the last 5 years.
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I'm a bit disappointed as after West Ham I honestly thought he'd stay. A real test for Lerner now to back TS properly.
It was his celebration after his Everton goal when I thought "we've got him.."
I think it's too easy for people to say "oh I'm not bothered he wasn;t that good anyway" but I think he was as good as we could conceivably get in that position this window and it's a shame if we miss out. That cup final performance will haunt us for the whole summer I reckon - I'm pretty he would have joined had we won it, saem goes for Benteke staying.
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Not convinced by Cleverly. Think he upped his game as a reaction to Sherwood coming in, but I think if he started next season for us then he would just revert back to his old form. You have to judge him on his career overall not just the last couple of months. Our midfield is pretty weak right now. We lack goals and players to create chances and long term need better than him to fix that.
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I'll be disappointed if he joins Everton. Firstly because he was showing signs of being excellent for us, and secondly because I think it makes it easier to sign players if you keep the better ones you have.
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Still waiting for any actual suggested better alternatives
Jay Spearing.
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Also I saw an interview where he said it would be hard to leave? what happened?
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Everton offered him a 5 year deal on 50 plus a week with a fat signing on fee I would presume. I don't really get the disappointment about him going. If he had been in the best 3-4 players over the season and scored 8-10 goals etc, then I would. But out of 38 games in a good 25-30 he was pretty poor.
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I'm not really convinced by the "oh, he only had a handful of decent games anyway" logic given how they pretty much all took place after Sherwood took over. Yeah, he finished the season with a few stinkers, and you can't throw out absolutely everything pre-Sherwood, but I think everything after the managerial switch is far more relevant.
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As far as this group of players are concerned, our season started when TS arrived. I judge them under his stewardship as I think things had got so bad under Lambert you could have had Messi, Ronaldo and Robben leading the line and we'd till have looked useless.
He sucked the life out of everyone and it showed at every level of performance you can possibly measure.
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What do we think Delph earns weekly?
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I'd go for Shelvey at Swansea.
I am aware of all the counter arguments - he's often injured : Swansea are in a better place than us at the mo : he is bald etc, ( lol) but he is a hard man in midfield who can score goals.
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I'd go for Shelvey at Swansea.
I am aware of all the counter arguments - he's often injured : Swansea are in a better place than us at the mo : he is bald etc, ( lol) but he is a hard man in midfield who can score goals.
You are right, Swansea are in a better position than us.
I don't foresee any change unless Randy sells.
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Delphs on about 40k
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Times reporting he'll sign for Everton this week. 5 year deal
A bit like pissing down your leg!
Everton can rejoice in picking up a player for nothing to pay for transfer fee after that they have a big problem on their hands for 5 years. Good luck to them.
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Is it possible that Cleverly was/is one of the players told to find a new club?
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Times reporting he'll sign for Everton this week. 5 year deal
A bit like pissing down your leg!
Everton can rejoice in picking up a player for nothing to pay for transfer fee after that they have a big problem on their hands for 5 years. Good luck to them.
Depends if you think pissing down your leg is a good idea at any time!
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Is it possible that Cleverly was/is one of the players told to find a new club?
It's possible. Signing him would have taken a big slice of the budget and maybe TS didn't think he was good enough. He's been shite last 3 games .
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Meh. Looked good-very good in a few games, looked shit in most. If he doesn't want to stay, fuck him.
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This deal must have been brewing for weeks / months ?? In which case why play him in the final when he'd been shite the previous 2 games.
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Meh. Looked good-very good in a few games, looked shit in most. If he doesn't want to stay, fuck him.
Succinct and spot on. Hardly any on here wanted him, he was for at least 80% of the games he played utter crap, and now there is sadness to see him go.
I hope that we get taken over, and Cleverley becomes a symbol of the poor standard of player that was symptomatic of finishing 17th in the table.
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Meh. Looked good-very good in a few games, looked shit in most. If he doesn't want to stay, fuck him.
Succinct and spot on. Hardly any on here wanted him, he was for at least 80% of the games he played utter crap, and now there is sadness to see him go.
I hope that we get taken over, and Cleverley becomes a symbol of the poor standard of player that was symptomatic of finishing 17th in the table.
On the basis of the first 25 league games, there isn't a player who was doing himself justice solely because of Lambert's increasing conservatism. When Sherwood allowed him to get ahead of the ball, we began to see what he is capable of.
Sure, we may be able to do better but I suspect it will be difficult unless we buy potential and have the patience to see it come through. Either way its at least £5m out of Sherwood's kitty this summer to replace him.
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This deal must have been brewing for weeks / months ?? In which case why play him in the final when he'd been shite the previous 2 games.
Probably because we don't have many other options in CM. Cole and Sanchez were the 2 on the bench.
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It's not the end of the world, but we were starting to see what he was capable of. He gave us tons of energy in the middle with Delph and he began to add goals which remains a criticism of all of our midfield players. He didn't play well initially under Lambert but which of our players really did? He got swept along with the tidal wave of negative football and only began to play at a higher level when Sherwood arrived.
However I have no doubt there are other players out there that we will find that can do a similar job for less money long term. I don't blame him for making a decision that suits his career and personal preferences.
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Before Sherwood arrived, he was fucking awful. Abysmal.
Then he had six or seven games where he was excellent.
Then three where he was awful again (although in his defence, they were all awful at this point).
Not hugely disappointed in him not signing. Slight annoyance that he's going to Everton, stinks a bit of having slipped further down the pecking order. Which is hardly surprising, but even so ...
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If Cleverley and Benteke leave this summer ( I said "if" before anyone starts), then we'll need to splash out some big money just to be in the same position as this season which really worries me.
Oh, and fuck Cleverley, obviously.
I hope I'm wrong about Sherwood as well, but I'm not convinced that he's anything more than a Keegan-style manager, someone who can motivate a team but does little else, tactically.
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Many may not agree but I think our 'stock' is pretty low right now after the very public Wembley debacle. What good player would want to join us at the moment?
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Meh. Looked good-very good in a few games, looked shit in most. If he doesn't want to stay, fuck him.
Well said Mr Shin.
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Depends if you think pissing down your leg is a good idea at any time!
It's a great idea ...when you are four! You do what comes naturally and you are warm for 5 seconds and than you are left with a problem!
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Maybe he wanted to go back up north. For a free transfer, it would have been a good move. That said, I'm not overly gutted that he's not stopping either if he dosen't want to.
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We have better in Delph. What we need is to spend money improving upon the holding player and bringing in somebody with more experience than Jack to provide not only more quality, but greater variety which will lead to balance.
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We have better in Delph. What we need is to spend money improving upon the holding player and bringing in somebody with more experience than Jack to provide not only more quality, but greater variety which will lead to balance.
Variety is the point. I like Westwood, but he is better suited to some games than others. I would argue the player we need to upgrade on is Sanchez.
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We have better in Delph. What we need is to spend money improving upon the holding player and bringing in somebody with more experience than Jack to provide not only more quality, but greater variety which will lead to balance.
Variety is the point. I like Westwood, but he is better suited to some games than others. I would argue the player we need to upgrade on is Sanchez.
I would personally perserve with Sanchez for another season. Some players just need time to settle.
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Agreed Monty. A real dominant ball playing sitter would anchor the midfield in a way that the players who've tried over the past few seasons have failed. Somebody that brings something different to the table. You've still got Westwood in the squad for when two deep midfielders suits the ocassion or injuries etc.
If Swansea can get more out of three players in Ki, Shelvey and Sigurdson, than we can in Westwood, Delph, Cleverley and Jack, then that tells you the balance isn't there.
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We have better in Delph. What we need is to spend money improving upon the holding player and bringing in somebody with more experience than Jack to provide not only more quality, but greater variety which will lead to balance.
Variety is the point. I like Westwood, but he is better suited to some games than others. I would argue the player we need to upgrade on is Sanchez.
Or make Sanchez better?
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Agreed Monty. A real dominant ball playing sitter would anchor the midfield in a way that the players who've tried over the past few seasons have failed. Somebody that brings something different to the table. You've still got Westwood in the squad for when two deep midfielders suits the ocassion or injuries etc.
If Swansea can get more out of three players in Ki, Shelvey and Sigurdson, than we can in Westwood, Delph, Cleverley and Jack, then that tells you the balance isn't there.
Each of those three has more ability than our lot though, which I think is more telling than a matter of balance. Ki is like Westwood with the right physical build for a defensive mid and with goals in him (8 of them this season); Shelvey has a better eye for a pass than anyone we have; and Sigurdsson has the instinct and technique to get goals from midfield (which we only see in flashes from Delph, and barely at all with Westwood or Grealish - yet). The only trait where our players might have an edge is energy and tenaciousness, but that might only be because the Swansea three don't need to run around like mad to make up for lack of dynamism.
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The pisser is we basically gave him first team football all season despite 90% of the time him being shit just so he can fuck off to Everton .who messed him about last summer leaving him no option but to come to us or play in the united reserves.
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I hope I'm wrong about Sherwood as well, but I'm not convinced that he's anything more than a Keegan-style manager, someone who can motivate a team but does little else, tactically.
My thoughts exactly, except substitute Stuart Pearce for Keegan.
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I hope I'm wrong about Sherwood as well, but I'm not convinced that he's anything more than a Keegan-style manager, someone who can motivate a team but does little else, tactically.
My thoughts exactly, except substitute Stuart Pearce for Keegan.
My thoughts. I'm dreading next season.
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My list of alternatives based on possible availability. Varying quality but all probably have matched Cleverly for form at various points.
Ki / Shelvey / Dembele / Hughes (Derby) / Lucas / Loan a youngster from Chelsea / De Jong / Arteta / Aussie at Palace
The point being that he is replaceable.
Ideally we need a bit more muscle to either replace Westwood or complement him in a sitting two. Versus Arsenal our midfield offered zero protection for the defence. There is that slightly worrying quote from Sherwood where he says he likes all action midfielders, rather than specialist, which (imo) is always likely to result in a few chaotic performances (some great, some shite).
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The pisser is we basically gave him first team football all season despite 90% of the time him being shit just so he can fuck off to Everton .who messed him about last summer leaving him no option but to come to us or play in the united reserves.
I think that's unfortunately far more reflective of how shit our options in midfield were, especially when Delph was injured. Sanchez had his ups and downs associated with settling in, Bacuna and Richardson weren't/aren't good enough to play there, Gardner needed playing time down in the Championship, and we couldn't afford moving Clark out of defence given how well he was doing there.
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Thing is I wouldn't be that bothered about him going if I had any belief that we could or would spend decent money replacing him.
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The pisser is we basically gave him first team football all season despite 90% of the time him being shit just so he can fuck off to Everton .who messed him about last summer leaving him no option but to come to us or play in the united reserves.
The pisser is we basically gave him first team football all season despite 90% of the time him being shit just so he can fuck off to Everton .who messed him about last summer leaving him no option but to come to us or play in the united reserves.
Exactly what I'm thinking. What a waste of a season for us. We get in a manager that gets him playing again, gets the best out of him, gets him on the edge of and England squad. And then he pisses off.
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I want to see what Villa have to say about this before I pass any judgements about what it might or might not mean. Potentially worrying though, if it's a judgement from Cleverley about our ambition and potential. And contradicts the words from Delph after he signed his new contract.
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but Delph clearly has an emotional investment in a club that stood by him when he was almost permanently injured and a moral compass that is very different from most footballers. TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
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TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
How's that then? It looks like he's signing for a manager that he's worked with before, that he clearly trusts for a club closer to his home that has better immediate prospects than us.
I'd rather he stay with Villa, but it's not like he's doing anything particularly horrendous by choosing not to.
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TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
How's that then? It looks like he's signing for a manager that he's worked with before, that he clearly trusts for a club closer to his home that has better immediate prospects than us.
I'd rather he stay with Villa, but it's not like he's doing anything particularly horrendous by choosing not to.
I agree. It's not like the decision to go to Everton is so utterly bizarre. There are plenty of reasons why they are a better choice than us for him today.
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Dave's right. You are forgetting he is not an Aston Villa player and never was. He can choose whatever club he wants to. The club that offers the best deal for himself and his family is the club that he will sign for. It may be us but most of the factors suggest it will be Everton.
We shall have to wait and see.
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There's no way we should be offering Cleverley a contract that would cost us £17m+ anyway. 30 odd games and about 6 or 7 good performances. He was Ok-ish and there are better abroad for a lot less.
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Not overly bothered if he goes or stays...he can be replaced but the only downside is that its likely to be more expensive to get someone as good if not better.
What I find more concerning is that ppl seem to have faith in Sanchez getting better. This bloke is clearly as gormless as Gabby with even less talent. The only way to improve Sanchez is to sell him and replace with a genuinely better player.
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Not too fussed about him going elsewhere, a hey-ho moment.
I would like to see a big ugly midfielder added who is a leader. Jedinek at Palace type of player, not sure if Sanchez fits the bill.
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Cleverly, meh. So what, really? 90% anonymous and no doubt when he lines up against us next season, he will continue to be anonymous. Another Darren Gibson. I am more concerned that he doesn't want to stay but only as I worry about our ambitions.
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Cleverley played his part in keeping us up so I'm disappointed he's going. If we were to go out and buy a player better than him then great but I have my doubts. I just hope we're not buying bargain basement players again because if we are its gonna be just the same as the last 5 seasons.
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Decent form for last few months and that rare species of a Villa goalscoring central midfielder.
Still I can't say I'm devasted he won't be here next season as we always saw many anonymous games from him.
He's very much a confidence player and I don't see that changing. So if we'd hit a barren winter spell again he'd disappear.
I feel with Delph, Sanchez and Westwood we need more guile and creativity there so I very much hope the replacement has those qualities rather than another midfielder who runs around a lot.
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TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
How's that then? It looks like he's signing for a manager that he's worked with before, that he clearly trusts for a club closer to his home that has better immediate prospects than us.
I'd rather he stay with Villa, but it's not like he's doing anything particularly horrendous by choosing not to.
Player has preference to go to one club permanently but ends up going to another on loan. Decent form before being very ropey. But always gives his all and never complains despite being played out of position. Scores crucial goals to save club from relegation and always seems delighted when team mates score
Then leaves for his preferred club
What a ****** eh?
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Fucking c*** bastard arse I've been censored!
Edit: is it only that word that gets censored?
Knob jockey. Fanny fidgeter. Cock muncher. Looks like it then
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TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
How's that then? It looks like he's signing for a manager that he's worked with before, that he clearly trusts for a club closer to his home that has better immediate prospects than us.
I'd rather he stay with Villa, but it's not like he's doing anything particularly horrendous by choosing not to.
Player has preference to go to one club permanently but ends up going to another on loan. Decent form before being very ropey. But always gives his all and never complains despite being played out of position. Scores crucial goals to save club from relegation and always seems delighted when team mates score
Then leaves for his preferred club
What a c*** eh?
I agree, but was he played out of position? What is his position? He won't be an AM up there, so is he more of a DM? I don't see that either.
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Craig Gardner 14/15 Steve Sidwell 13/14 fulham have had better seasons than Cleveleys spell at villa. So players can perform in struggling teams cleverly rarely brought much to the table and unfortunately seemed lacking in his last few appearances in particular. Good luck to the guy but I don't expect any heights like fabulous delph to be met
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TC never wanted to be at Villa and epitomises everything that is wrong about PL footballers.
How's that then? It looks like he's signing for a manager that he's worked with before, that he clearly trusts for a club closer to his home that has better immediate prospects than us.
I'd rather he stay with Villa, but it's not like he's doing anything particularly horrendous by choosing not to.
Player has preference to go to one club permanently but ends up going to another on loan. Decent form before being very ropey. But always gives his all and never complains despite being played out of position. Scores crucial goals to save club from relegation and always seems delighted when team mates score
Then leaves for his preferred club
What a c*** eh?
I agree, but was he played out of position? What is his position? He won't be an AM up there, so is he more of a DM? I don't see that either.
I think he got chucked out onto the left for a while. Also, I'd propose that "spending 90% of the game defending desperately" counts as playing out of position.
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He played quite a few games on the left or right around Xmas
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Craig Gardner 14/15 Steve Sidwell 13/14 fulham have had better seasons than Cleveleys spell at villa. So players can perform in struggling teams cleverly rarely brought much to the table and unfortunately seemed lacking in his last few appearances in particular. Good luck to the guy but I don't expect any heights like fabulous delph to be met
not very well written, Villakicks, but this is probably your most sensible post ever.
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A good "Youtube" player, could compile an excellent 60 seconds of him but overall - no great loss. Anonymous in some games, a liability in others, we`ll survive.
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Loosely linked but I class our chances of improved fortunes next season based largely on what we do with the midfield.
Westwood for example is what I would class as a 'bellweather' player. Continue with him as a regular in the side and you're always going to lurking around the bottom six of the league.
Cleverley not the best player that will ever leave us. But he showed he could be decent and is another player we are going to have to replace at a cost and at a standard that has to be convinced to join our ambitious club.
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Fucking c*** bastard arse I've been censored!
Edit: is it only that word that gets censored?
Knob jockey. Fanny fidgeter. Cock muncher. Looks like it then
I've never heard of any of these players....:)
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Seems Roy Keane got one thing right.
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Would you be that worried if he lined up against us next season for Everton? I certainly wouldn't. He had about half a dozen decent games for us, if that, amongst a sea of mediocrity and that's without counting all his awful displays for Man Utd
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Well if he's now got all the offers and is mulling them over, I hope he doesn't decide to take the time to surf fans site to see what the respective supporters think of him.
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Well if he's now got all the offers and is mulling them over, I hope he doesn't decide to take the time to surf fans site to see what the respective supporters think of him.
I looked at the Cleverly thread on an Everton forum yesterday, and to say they are underwhelmed is putting it lightly.
This thread makes him sound like Xavi by comparison.
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SSN suggests he's having a medical at Everton but we're still trying to sign him
I'd have thought the writing is on the wall to be honest!
"Tom . . . Tom . . Pick up the phone mate . . Tom?"
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Well if he didn't know it before, Timothy certainly knows what he has let himself in for now....
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SSN suggests he's having a medical at Everton but we're still trying to sign him
I'd have thought the writing is on the wall to be honest!
"Tom . . . Tom . . Pick up the phone mate . . Tom?"
"There must be something wrong with the network today, I can't get an answer out of Lionel or Christiano either."
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Well if he didn't know it before, Timothy certainly knows what he has let himself in for now....
Because a player who didn't belong to us is probably going to sign for the club that were his first choice all along?
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Think it was always going to be Everton as he's from the North West. Anyway, f-ck him, he was only decent for about 2 and a half months.
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He's from Bradford.
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He's from Bradford.
Part of Greater Manchester.
*nods*
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Would you be that worried if he lined up against us next season for Everton? I certainly wouldn't.
I'm usually quite worried regardless of who the opposition have playing for them at the moment. Add in the generosity that we tend to show to former players and I'll probably be a pile of neuroses by the time we play Everton.
I'm already assuming a Cleverley hat-trick with Barry adding a late fourth.
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Well if he didn't know it before, Timothy certainly knows what he has let himself in for now....
Because a player who didn't belong to us is probably going to sign for the club that were his first choice all along?
Not quite, more the usual last minute guff about us still trying to sign him when he is having a medical elsewhere.
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Well if he didn't know it before, Timothy certainly knows what he has let himself in for now....
Because a player who didn't belong to us is probably going to sign for the club that were his first choice all along?
Not quite, more the usual last minute guff about us still trying to sign him when he is having a medical elsewhere.
The usual guff that has never happened before? That kind of usual?
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That's the one. Frantically trawling through recordings of sky sources ticker tape headlines.
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Apparently Fuchs knows who has just signed for Leicester was Tim's number one target this summer.
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Apparently Fuchs knows who has just signed for Leicester was Tim's number one target this summer.
Where did you hear that?
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What is it about players from the North West that they never seem to settle in Greater Birmingham? I know we've had Chico and John Gidmand in the 70's and Mark Lillis in the 80's but of late they all seem of the David Unsworth persuasion....
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Apparently Fuchs knows who has just signed for Leicester was Tim's number one target this summer.
Where did you hear that?
I think it may a pun on the sound of "Fuchs knows who" .
It seems Swansea, Sunderland, Hull and Fulham all showed interest.
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Did Keane mention Cleverley in his new book?
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http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/06/04/report-aston-villa-wanted-new-leicester-city-signing-christian-f/
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I hope the rumours of us wanting Fuchs and Cabaye aren't true, especially if Cabaye goes to Palace, that will be utterly depressing if we've lost out to those 2 clubs who aren't even established top-flight outfits.
However the above article on Fuchs is not a 'report' as it makes out.
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So cleveley signs for everton, this Fuch signs for Liecester, my we have real premiership presence. Season number 6 then.
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Hang on a minute...
Aston Villa wanted to sign Christian Fuchs in the summer transfer window, according to The Sun.
The Sun have now reported that Villa also wanted to sign the Austria international, claiming that manager Tim Sherwood “had made the deadball specialist one of his major summer targets”.
...so we're now blaming the club for missing out on a player that we were reported to be interested in according to an article on a website based on a report and quotes from The Sun newspaper?!
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How did it happen that Everton, who were apparently in major financial crpa 3or 4 years ago, are now able to outbid us for players? Did I miss something? Why are they financially so much better off than us?
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How did it happen that Everton, who were apparently in major financial crpa 3or 4 years ago, are now able to outbid us for players? Did I miss something? Why are they financially so much better off than us?
Nobody's saying that they did outbid us.
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How did it happen that Everton, who were apparently in major financial crpa 3or 4 years ago, are now able to outbid us for players? Did I miss something? Why are they financially so much better off than us?
I'm not convinced they'd need to outbid us, if TC had our offer and Everton's on the table, both of say 50k a week, I think he'd pick the side that have just had their worst season in years by finishing 11th as opposed to the one who hasn't finished out of the bottom six for 5 years. It also means he can continue to live in the North West. The more I think about it, even if we offered 70k a week and Everton offered 50k, he may still have chosen them.
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Hang on a minute...
Aston Villa wanted to sign Christian Fuchs in the summer transfer window, according to The Sun.
The Sun have now reported that Villa also wanted to sign the Austria international, claiming that manager Tim Sherwood “had made the deadball specialist one of his major summer targets”.
...so we're now blaming the club for missing out on a player that we were reported to be interested in according to an article on a website based on a report and quotes from The Sun newspaper?!
The Sun is a newspaper? And there are football supporters who actually read it after the way they "reported" Hillsborough? Blimey!
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Has he signed for Everton then?
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What a waste of a season for us if he was never going to sign. We should have been playing our young guys instead of giving this guy valuable match time just for him to get his confidence back and then fcuk off. Gary Gardener could have done with this time to get himself up to speed to see if he can cut it. We are back to square one and Everton get a player just on the fringes of playing for England. Our small time mentality is going to get us relegated.
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Hang on a minute...
Aston Villa wanted to sign Christian Fuchs in the summer transfer window, according to The Sun.
The Sun have now reported that Villa also wanted to sign the Austria international, claiming that manager Tim Sherwood “had made the deadball specialist one of his major summer targets”.
...so we're now blaming the club for missing out on a player that we were reported to be interested in according to an article on a website based on a report and quotes from The Sun newspaper?!
I stopped reading once I read 'The Sun'.
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Really not fussed about Cleverley. Was garbage for 2/3 of the season, then had a good run for 8-10 games before reverting to type in the final 3. I actually don't blame him for choosing Everton, as if you look at it from a neutral point of view, Everton are in a better position as a football club. Let's move on. Hopefully Sherwood can uncover some gems...
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What a waste of a season for us if he was never going to sign. We should have been playing our young guys instead of giving this guy valuable match time just for him to get his confidence back and then fcuk off.
Those two match-winning goals were quite useful.
Had he not scored those then we could have given lots of our younger players plenty of experience and game time in the Championship next season.
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Let's face it, is anyone seriously that bothered that Cleverley is going to Everton?
No doubt he gets the £50k / wk & a hefty signing on fee but he is exceptionally mediocre. It's only because we compare him to the likes of Silla & El Ahmadi that he looks OK.
Never really wanted to be here & his performances up to March showed it.
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What a waste of a season for us if he was never going to sign. We should have been playing our young guys instead of giving this guy valuable match time just for him to get his confidence back and then fcuk off.
Those two match-winning goals were quite useful.
Had he not scored those then we could have given lots of our younger players plenty of experience and game time in the Championship next season.
They were extremely important goals. I'm not saying otherwise. My point is, we invested a lot of time in this guy, gave him lots of playing time for him to find his mojo. At the end of it Everton are the beneficiaries of this time.
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It's a loan. You know what you're getting into. Sometimes clubs in our situation have little choice
What was the alterbative? Give Gardner a chance and wait for 5 months while he blew the cob webs off like he did at Brighton?
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Let's face it, is anyone seriously that bothered that Cleverley is going to Everton?
No doubt he gets the £50k / wk & a hefty signing on fee but he is exceptionally mediocre. It's only because we compare him to the likes of Silla & El Ahmadi that he looks OK.
Never really wanted to be here & his performances up to March showed it.
I'd rather have Tom then some of the scrubs we've been holding onto for near the same wages for the last 4 years.
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What a waste of a season for us if he was never going to sign. We should have been playing our young guys instead of giving this guy valuable match time just for him to get his confidence back and then fcuk off.
Those two match-winning goals were quite useful.
Had he not scored those then we could have given lots of our younger players plenty of experience and game time in the Championship next season.
They were extremely important goals. I'm not saying otherwise. My point is, we invested a lot of time in this guy, gave him lots of playing time for him to find his mojo. At the end of it Everton are the beneficiaries of this time.
No, we were. We had an experienced player for a season rather than an untried, inexperienced one recovering from two career-threatening injuries.
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How did it happen that Everton, who were apparently in major financial crpa 3or 4 years ago, are now able to outbid us for players? Did I miss something? Why are they financially so much better off than us?
Nobody's saying that they did outbid us.
I suspect partner and family being based in the NW was the deciding factor
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Has he signed for Everton then?
Not yet but close apparently. No harm no foul in my opinion. He worked hard, had a few good games and (a few awful ones) but always cared more than he needed to about our survival.
Good luck to him.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/jun/05/tom-cleverley-joins-everton-manchester-united
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Well hopefully he went there because Everton offered him loads more wonga. I should imagine the close world of premiership footballers means that most players have a good idea about what goes on at each individual club , what the managers like and what the other players are like.These things could sway decisions as much as money could.
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Cleverley has just been called up to the England squad, so his performances for Villa weren't that bad were they?
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Cleverley has just been called up to the England squad, so his performances for Villa weren't that bad were they?
An England call up these days carries about as much Koudos as having a Boots loyalty card.
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Cleverley has just been called up to the England squad, so his performances for Villa weren't that bad were they?
An England call up these days carries about as much Koudos as having a Boots loyalty card.
Carlton Palmer and Steve Bull have England caps.
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It's frustrating because it's another player who needs replacing.
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Does his partner come from nw ?
Sure she is in towie
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How did it happen that Everton, who were apparently in major financial crpa 3or 4 years ago, are now able to outbid us for players? Did I miss something? Why are they financially so much better off than us?
Nobody's saying that they did outbid us.
I suspect partner and family being based in the NW was the deciding factor
I suspect you are right. At least we know where we stand nice and early on this one.
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What is it about players from the North West that they never seem to settle in Greater Birmingham? I know we've had Chico and John Gidmand in the 70's and Mark Lillis in the 80's but of late they all seem of the David Unsworth persuasion....
It's because they're in relationships with Manc/Scouse WAG Wotsits who get panicky if they find themselves over 20 minutes drive from their Cheshire/Southport tanning salons.
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To be honest his reaction to bentekes winner in the league at vp to the stripey shite and also to sinclairs and Delphs in the cup will always stay with me
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Just heard on the Beeb that he's signed a 5 year deal with Everton. Really not that bothered tbh. Until he scores against us at VP obviously
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Big outlay for Everton, he's nowhere near worth that level of investment so I am glad he's gone.
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In before the lock. Cheers for the hard work.
Now feck off.
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Cleverley has just been called up to the England squad, so his performances for Villa weren't that bad were they?
As a replacement for Ryan Mason so make of that what you will.
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Everton have completed the signing of Manchester United midfielder Tom Cleverley on a five-year contract.
The 25-year-old, who spent last term on loan at Aston Villa, will join Everton on 1 July when his United deal expires.
He was also called into the England squad for Sunday's friendly with the Republic of Ireland to replace the injured Ryan Mason of Tottenham.
"I can think of many reasons why fans will enjoy Tom representing our club," said Everton boss Roberto Martinez.
"The most important one is that he is a perfect fit for what we are trying to build here as he has so much experience of playing in the Premier League and he still has his best years just ahead of him."
Cleverley, who has also had loans at Leicester, Watford and Wigan - where Martinez was in charge - won the last of his 13 England caps in November 2013.
"At the age of 25 and a player who is representing his country, Tom has experienced winning trophies and having big roles in demanding teams," the Toffees manager added.
"Having worked with him previously, I know the type of character he is and I know that, with the Everton fans' support, we will get a very special footballer joining our already exciting team.
"It says a lot also, when someone like Tom is available on a free transfer and he can pick his next club out of many options home and abroad, that he has chosen to play for our football club. That's the perfect start to his career here at Everton."
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Ah well. We move on.
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Disappointed. Not sure I would have paid £7m for him but on a free transfer, he would have been an excellent acquisition.
If we are in a similar position in August as we were last season, I would still take experienced players on loan regardless of how this has turned out. We need to buy ourselves time in building the club up again.
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Ah well. We move on.
Careful Ron, you're almost in we go again territory there!
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Disappointed. Not sure I would have paid £7m for him but on a free transfer, he would have been an excellent acquisition.
If we are in a similar position in August as we were last season, I would still take experienced players on loan regardless of how this has turned out. We need to buy ourselves time in building the club up again.
Won't be any building going on down VP until the club are sold. It all about fire fighting I'm afraid.
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It's frustrating because it's another player who needs replacing.
Exactly. I know people are trying to put a brave face on, but Cleverley is a decent player who now needs replacing. Do you trust Lerner to release the funds to get in a player of his quality, because I don't.
Let's hope the shyster sells up this summer. I shudder to think of going into next season with another pitiful £9m or so net spend.
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Cleverley's contribution this season helped to save us from the drop. Who will we sign now to stop us from being relegated next season?
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Ah well. We move on.
Careful Ron, you're almost in we go again territory there!
I thought about it!!!
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It's frustrating because it's another player who needs replacing.
Exactly. I know people are trying to put a brave face on, but Cleverley is a decent player who now needs replacing. Do you trust Lerner to release the funds to get in a player of his quality, because I don't.
Let's hope the shyster sells up this summer. I shudder to think of going into next season with another pitiful £9m or so net spend.
Well apparently we made two attempts to persuade him to sign with us so I imagine we put up a similar financial package to Everton. He made a personal choice in the end but it does suggest the finances are there for Sherwood's targets.
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There's no point whining about Everton being a better choice or whatever.
If that is the reason he went there (rather than not having to move house, for example), then we have to face facts, Everton have spent the last few seasons not too far from the top six.
We have spent the last few seasons narrowly avoiding getting relegated, and are currently in cold storage until our can't-be-arsed chairman manages to sell us to someone who gives a toss.
I don't blame anyone for thinking they are a better bet - they are.
This is going to last until we get some form of permanence in the ownership and direction of the club, unfortunately. It needs to come very soon, too.
I am not bothered Cleverley has gone per se, more in the sense that it's another hole we need to fill this window. If we were to lose Vlaar (again, it's not so much losing him as having another position to fill) and Benteke (which I think is pretty inevitable), then that gives us a huge amount of work to do just to stand still and reach the "strength" we had last season.
I don't trust Lerner to identify the right thing to do, let alone actually do it, so I suspect we'll see another paltry outlay and another failure to do anything more than the absolute bare minimum to not get relegated (despite chancing it as much as it is possible to do this season).
Currently, we are perennial strugglers, a bit of a mess, led by someone who has admitted he's lost interest, and sees that as an excuse to spend as little money as possible.
Why is anyone surprised that players don't want to hitch their career to that?
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It's frustrating because it's another player who needs replacing.
Exactly. I know people are trying to put a brave face on, but Cleverley is a decent player who now needs replacing. Do you trust Lerner to release the funds to get in a player of his quality, because I don't.
Let's hope the shyster sells up this summer. I shudder to think of going into next season with another pitiful £9m or so net spend.
Well apparently we made two attempts to persuade him to sign with us so I imagine we put up a similar financial package to Everton. He made a personal choice in the end but it does suggest the finances are there for Sherwood's targets.
Well time will tell but I've heard it all before over the last 5 years, and it doesn't bode well that one of our better players of last season didn't see a future with us.
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It's frustrating because it's another player who needs replacing.
Exactly. I know people are trying to put a brave face on, but Cleverley is a decent player who now needs replacing. Do you trust Lerner to release the funds to get in a player of his quality, because I don't.
Let's hope the shyster sells up this summer. I shudder to think of going into next season with another pitiful £9m or so net spend.
Well apparently we made two attempts to persuade him to sign with us so I imagine we put up a similar financial package to Everton. He made a personal choice in the end but it does suggest the finances are there for Sherwood's targets.
Genuinely interested to hear how you arrive at that conclusion.
The fact we made two attempts to sign him (whenever they were) but failed, the personal choice you're assuming he made, the financial package you're assuming was similar - how on earth do they suggest anything about the finances being there for Sherwood's targets?
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There's no point whining about Everton being a better choice or whatever.
If that is the reason he went there (rather than not having to move house, for example), then we have to face facts, Everton have spent the last few seasons not too far from the top six.
We have spent the last few seasons narrowly avoiding getting relegated, and are currently in cold storage until our can't-be-arsed chairman manages to sell us to someone who gives a toss.
I don't blame anyone for thinking they are a better bet - they are.
This is going to last until we get some form of permanence in the ownership and direction of the club, unfortunately. It needs to come very soon, too.
I am not bothered Cleverley has gone per se, more in the sense that it's another hole we need to fill this window. If we were to lose Vlaar (again, it's not so much losing him as having another position to fill) and Benteke (which I think is pretty inevitable), then that gives us a huge amount of work to do just to stand still and reach the "strength" we had last season.
I don't trust Lerner to identify the right thing to do, let alone actually do it, so I suspect we'll see another paltry outlay and another failure to do anything more than the absolute bare minimum to not get relegated (despite chancing it as much as it is possible to do this season).
Currently, we are perennial strugglers, a bit of a mess, led by someone who has admitted he's lost interest, and sees that as an excuse to spend as little money as possible.
Why is anyone surprised that players don't want to hitch their career to that?
Well yeah we know all that, but what we want to see is the club looking a bit more ambitious. Losing Cleverley isn't a good start and it looks like the same old Lerner's Villa to me. Hope I'm wrong.
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There's no point whining about Everton being a better choice or whatever.
If that is the reason he went there (rather than not having to move house, for example), then we have to face facts, Everton have spent the last few seasons not too far from the top six.
We have spent the last few seasons narrowly avoiding getting relegated, and are currently in cold storage until our can't-be-arsed chairman manages to sell us to someone who gives a toss.
I don't blame anyone for thinking they are a better bet - they are.
This is going to last until we get some form of permanence in the ownership and direction of the club, unfortunately. It needs to come very soon, too.
I am not bothered Cleverley has gone per se, more in the sense that it's another hole we need to fill this window. If we were to lose Vlaar (again, it's not so much losing him as having another position to fill) and Benteke (which I think is pretty inevitable), then that gives us a huge amount of work to do just to stand still and reach the "strength" we had last season.
I don't trust Lerner to identify the right thing to do, let alone actually do it, so I suspect we'll see another paltry outlay and another failure to do anything more than the absolute bare minimum to not get relegated (despite chancing it as much as it is possible to do this season).
Currently, we are perennial strugglers, a bit of a mess, led by someone who has admitted he's lost interest, and sees that as an excuse to spend as little money as possible.
Why is anyone surprised that players don't want to hitch their career to that?
Well yeah we know all that, but what we want to see is the club looking a bit more ambitious. Losing Cleverley isn't a good start and it looks like the same old Lerner's Villa to me. Hope I'm wrong.
Don't hold your breath.
Not until Lerner sells.
His sole display of interest in the club this year has been managing to come over for the cup final (as he got to sit next to a Prince, no doubt), and the odd day over here now and again during the season.
He's totally lost interest and admitted as much. He's going to do the absolute bare minimum he has to do until he sells up. Until then, we're in cold storage and going nowhere.
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I'm pretty sure that for a lot less than 50K a week for 5 years we can get someone in who can score 3 times a season and can manage 6-8 good games out of nearly 40.
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I'm pretty sure that for a lot less than 50K a week for 5 years we can get someone in who can score 3 times a season and can manage 6-8 good games out of nearly 40.
How many of our players achieved those stats last season though?
Cleverley is a good player wether we admit it or not.
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It doesn't change that he played well about 20% of the time and scored 3 goals. It's hardly a high standard to replace. It's just a sign of how shit we were a lot of the season that those numbers make us think we're going to struggle to replace him.
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well I hope you're right but I for one don't trust Lerner to release the funds to sign many decent players this summer. In my opinion it's a shame Cleverley didn't think Villa were an option after playing his bit to keep us up. It doesn't bode well.
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Meh. Looked good-very good in a few games, looked shit in most. If he doesn't want to stay, fuck him.
this
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I'm not going to start banging my head against a wall with the season barely having finished. There's a lot to do, everyone knows that. I'm just going to keep myself busy and not magnify every minor detail of speculation. I'm just going to hope for the best.
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I'm not going to start banging my head against a wall with the season barely having finished. There's a lot to do, everyone knows that. I'm just going to keep myself busy and not magnify every minor detail of speculation. I'm just going to hope for the best.
That's the best approach. If you let every rumour get to you you'll end up locked away. And just because we don't buy someone today or tomorrow doesn't mean the sky is falling in. It just means at the start of June when the market isn't even officially open yet we haven't done anything of significance yet. The manager has said he has a long list of targets and we'll see how many of those come off. I don't imagine he made that list without some assurances that he could actually buy a few of them. So I agree. Breathe and let things pan out.
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If he read this Id like to thank him for the goals that helped keep us up, other than that I hope he gets excruciating piles for the next few seasons, useless little gobshite.
We ain't that attractive a proposition anymore, are we?
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And, I wished Sherwood would have dropped him for the final as well.
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It doesn't change that he played well about 20% of the time and scored 3 goals. It's hardly a high standard to replace. It's just a sign of how shit we were a lot of the season that those numbers make us think we're going to struggle to replace him.
But was one of our better players when a decent motivator and someone who knew where to play him came in. In any event, if he isn't a high standard to replace, why did we bring him in in the first place, if someone much better and at our budget was available? Not saying you are wrong by the way, just I think when we know we have to improve the squad as it is, it is a headache we could have really done without.
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It might be that we actually have to sell Benteke to create funds if this Chairman is going to continue to act as Paulie suggests.
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It might be that we actually have to sell Benteke to create funds if this Chairman is going to continue to act as Paulie suggests.
Or it might not be the case at all.
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It doesn't change that he played well about 20% of the time and scored 3 goals. It's hardly a high standard to replace. It's just a sign of how shit we were a lot of the season that those numbers make us think we're going to struggle to replace him.
I think there's a lot of truth in the first bit of this, but my concern is that we're now going to have to replace him by paying someone for a player and then probably still paying them 50k a week or so.
I thought Cleverley was shite for months, then good for about 6 or 7 games, then shite again. But he's the player the manager wanted, that's what bothers me.
That and now we're going to have to trust in Randy Lerner to provide even more cash to replace him.
We'll see soon enough how that pans out, but I'm not hugely hopeful.
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It might be that we actually have to sell Benteke to create funds if this Chairman is going to continue to act as Paulie suggests.
Or it might not be the case at all.
Might be though TV ;-)
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It might be that we actually have to sell Benteke to create funds if this Chairman is going to continue to act as Paulie suggests.
Or it might not be the case at all.
Might be though TV ;-)
Precisely. So I'll take the optimistic approach and wait to see how things work out. Way, way, way too early to take a negative position in my opinion. If we are here in early August I'll be reaching for rusty blades with everyone else.
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Everton fans will have been used to Barry in midfield,
who was 10 times the player Cleverley will ever be
I give them 4 games into the new season before they are moaning their arses of
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Cleverley who?
Can we close this thread please?
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On the whole I think they are welcome to him, 7 games out of the whole season isnt reason to give him the kind of contract he seems to have been offered at Everton.
Giving those sorts of deals to ordinary players has led us to this perpetual relegation battle we now seem to be involved in.
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It might be that we actually have to sell Benteke to create funds if this Chairman is going to continue to act as Paulie suggests.
Or it might not be the case at all.
Might be though TV ;-)
Indeed.
All we can go on is the experience of the past few years. Oh. Minimal spending.
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It doesn't change that he played well about 20% of the time and scored 3 goals. It's hardly a high standard to replace. It's just a sign of how shit we were a lot of the season that those numbers make us think we're going to struggle to replace him.
Spot on. It's the same with people defending N'Zogbia because he's played about 100 minutes of good football in, what, four years. It's a sign of how shit we have become that people can almost remember the isolated 4 or 5 instances when someone did something good in a game and not the other unremittingly turgid dross they served up the rest of the time.
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I do suspect cleverly was one of those told to "find themselves another club". I suspect sherwood knew his wage demands were unrealistic.
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I do suspect cleverly was one of those told to "find themselves another club". I suspect sherwood knew his wage demands were unrealistic.
Why would Sherwood tell a player who didn't actually belong to us to find another club?
And why would Sherwood go out of his way to stress how much he wanted to keep him? "I've told him if he doesn't sign, he's not playing in the cup final" etc etc.
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Not bothered by his departure: more concerned by the message it sends to prospective signings. After the travails of the last 5 years, we will struggle to attract the players we need: the departure of high-profile players makes the job harder.
Sherwood will be defined by his squad rebuild this summer.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/football/video-1189758/New-Everton-signing-Cleverley-scores-stunning-one-touch-goal.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Too soon, for free I would of liked him to stay but realistically going to EFC is a much better move for him, they on on the up and can beat any team on their day, he's made the right choice IMO.
We are going nowhere but backwards unless major investment is injected and most of us know that isn't likely until Randolph sells up.
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Hes gone to Everton, a side we beat pretty convincingly, even though we are shite.
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I give them 4 games into the new season before they are moaning their arses of
Don't be ridiculous, this is Everton we're talking about. 1 game at the most!
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Meh
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They beat us pretty convincingly in the reverse fixture, still doesn't change the fact they're likely to finish higher than us next year, especially now without Europa.
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He didn't want to sign in the first place, he came running when his move to everton collapsed over wage demands. The only time I thought he might sign was just before the cup final when he said it would be hard to leave Villa...obviously not that bloody hard
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Everton only got 9 more points than us so it's hardly he's joining a team that's going places. Martinez is a very over rated manager. I see him being sacked before 2016.
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As decent as he was under Sherwood for a few games (and he was), would anyone have wanted him here before he actually came?
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And despite how shit we've been overall for the last few years, he's one of the few, if not the only one, to be booed at VP before games when his name was announced. We have to remember that's how shit he was for months.
I wouldn't have minded if he stayed, i'm not at all fussed he's gone. In a few years he'll be the name in a Missing Men 11 that you forget ever played for us.
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I wonder what the reaction on here would have been had he signed for us?
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Pity, he looked a lot better after Sherwood arrived and changed things around. Another gap in the team to fill then.
I really hope Randy has got some money to spend.
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I wonder what the reaction on here would have been had he signed for us?
On a 5 year deal? Pretty negative. Not sure it would have been wrong either tbf.
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No great loss. He's just a shit Jordan Henderson anyway.
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See ya
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I'm trying too care....
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I wonder what the reaction on here would have been had he signed for us?
Pretty positive as we are mostly optimists and he showed that he was a capable player but the pragmatists would be right in saying we dodged a bullet.
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I'm trying too care....
to
-
Everton fans will have been used to Barry in midfield,
who was 10 times the player Cleverley will ever be
I give them 4 games into the new season before they are moaning their arses of
It's normally the first free kick given against them with that lot
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/football/video-1189758/New-Everton-signing-Cleverley-scores-stunning-one-touch-goal.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Too soon, for free I would of liked him to stay but realistically going to EFC is a much better move for him, they on on the up and can beat any team on their day, he's made the right choice IMO.
We are going nowhere but backwards unless major investment is injected and most of us know that isn't likely until Randolph sells up.
On a side note, we all criticise players, but that snapshot of training just goes to show the pace of the game the top players operate at and the control they have in very tight spaces.
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He was never our player so it can't be counted as a loss, we knew his first choice was Everton and that's where he's ended up.
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Disappointed. Not sure I would have paid £7m for him but on a free transfer, he would have been an excellent acquisition.
If we are in a similar position in August as we were last season, I would still take experienced players on loan regardless of how this has turned out. We need to buy ourselves time in building the club up again.
This. I think he would have been a good permanent signing. Considering he had some of our unforgiving fans on his back from his first game I'm not unduly surprised. I thought he came good circa 4 games from the end of Lambert's reign and was consistently good until the last 3 games, when we fell apart as a team. Agree with omvf's last sentence as well.
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That midfield at Everton looks a little logjammed: I assume Cleverley, McCarthy and Barkley will start for them, which leaves Barry, Osman, Gibson and Besic on the bench. Maybe Besic could be available? Looked good at the WC, but have no idea how he's gotten on at Everton.
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I wonder what the reaction on here would have been had he signed for us?
Even if he had played brilliantly in the last three games. Even if he had scored five goals in the Cup Final in a magnificent 5-4 win Clevereley would have still signed for Everton.......or Man City.....or Chelsea!!
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I can't help thinking that we subconsciously knew this was coming when we decided his song should be the same tune as the 'f@@@ the Albion' one.
So simple to convert it now.
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Five year contract! Glad we didn't sign him. Do Everton have their own version of the bomb squad? Five years for Benteke, yes, but it's one hell of a long contract for a player of Cleverley's ability.
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I can't help thinking that we subconsciously knew this was coming when we decided his song should be the same tune as the 'f@@@ the Albion' one.
So simple to convert it now.
I know I might be in the minority but I really dislike that song whoever its sung about. I cringed when I heard it sung about Arsenal at Wembley last week as well. Surely we can do better than that? It's crass.
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I certainly prefer us to sing about us too.
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Agreed! Worst song ever in a long line of absolutely crap songs.
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There is no point being upset about a 6 good game in 35 player. It's that sort of record which typifies why we are shit. As somebody else said, N'Zogbia is another example, although you're talking about 6 games in four seasons.
We need to purge ourselves of such garbage and the £70-90k a week they command collectively (no wonder Lerner fell out of love with the game, imagine if you were spunking your cash on such pap?), because they can be replaced, and given the low bar they've set, it won't be difficult.
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Lambert convinced Delph and Benteke to stay on. Despite Sherwood bravado he couldn't entice cleverly. I think that shows some inexperience. Maybe Sherwood hammered clevs too much about getting forward, wasting his career and scoring goals. By all accounts footballers can be sensitive and it seems cleverly didn't 100% take to it all at villa which is a shame as its brought him an international call up
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I wonder what the reaction on here would have been had he signed for us?
On huge wages? On a five year contract?
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Yes, the only manager, including Fergie, to wring anything out of him in the past four years, albeit briefly, upset his sensibilities by getting some end product out of him. Jesus.
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I wonder whether TS wanted to sign him given the wages?
Maybe Gardner can step up to replace him
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I'm trying too care....
to
This is a thread about Cleverley, not grading other people's grammar. Get a grip silhillvilla.
I'm not too fussed about Cleverley, but thank him for his goals. Until Sherwood arrived I thought he was dreadful.
Good luck to him
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Another one who just used us as a stepping-stone to go elsewhere, said all the right things to keep the mugs - sorry, fans on his side knowing all along exactly where he was going to end up. Backstabbing fuckrat.
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Who gives a shit. Owes no more loyalty to us than we did to him when we cheered him getting subbed.
And he's been at best a 6.5/10 on average during his time with us.
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I'm trying too care....
to
This is a thread about Cleverley, not grading other people's grammar. Get a grip silhillvilla.
Wait till you meet Bad English.
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Who gives a shit. Owes no more loyalty to us than we did to him when we cheered him getting subbed.
And he's been at best a 6.5/10 on average during his time with us.
He was one of our better players that's why we give a shit. Do you trust Lerner to provide the funds to replace him with similar or better?
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Nope
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I trust Sherwood to find a midfider who will give us more than 6 good performances or at the least avoid 29 abysmal ones. I expect he will be able to pay that player less than £200k a month too.
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He will be forgotten about very quickly.
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I trust Sherwood to find a midfider who will give us more than 6 good performances or at the least avoid 29 abysmal ones. I expect he will be able to pay that player less than £200k a month too.
Well he's got a job on his hands because you could be talking about practically everyone of our first team squad there apart from the £200ka month bit.
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I'm glad we aren't signing Cleverley. He's not a terrible player, but what got us in to this mess was paying very average British players massive wages. Look at Gil, he's probably on £20k ish, Vlaar £25-30k, Benteke was on beans when he came. There's so much value for money in Europe that even negating a transfer fee for Cleverley all in you're talking something approaching £20m over 5 years for him. He'll do Ok for Everton, they're a better side than we are and he won't be so exposed but we've been down the road of paying over the odds and we can't be doing it again any time soon.
We need to spend at least £20m this summer but wisely. With Bent going, Weimann, Cleverley and others you are probably talking of knocking £10m quid a year off the wage bill, I know it's been said every summer for years but this really is a crucial one. There's an opportunity to get the wage bill more reflective of the team we've got. If Tim spends even half wisely we will do better next year and will be on the up.
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Who gives a shit. Owes no more loyalty to us than we did to him when we cheered him getting subbed.
And he's been at best a 6.5/10 on average during his time with us.
Agree with this and we are being generous with 6.5/10 taking in all appearances.
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He will be forgotten about very quickly.
I'll not forget his name being booed a couple of times when the team sheet was read out - never heard that before
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The only reason anyone is bothered is because sherwood is so good at galvanising damaged goods players with shitty attitudes, hence the recent performances. There are plenty of those sorts of players around with plenty more talent than TC for him to work on.
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I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
There should probably be a question mark in there somewhere, as well as possibly a semi-colon.
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
*gauge*
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
*gauge*
I don't even have the excuse of fat thumbs like most of you..
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
*gauge*
I don't even have the excuse of fat thumbs like most of you..
Only need the one full stop.
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
*gauge*
I don't even have the excuse of fat thumbs like most of you..
Only need the one full stop.
Were Aston Villa, we'll teach you grammar, Doubt it will take off... Unfortunately.
-
I'm trying too care....
to
Your so cool, can we hang out? ;D
*You're
Anybody else?
Not sure if 'anyone' would be better than 'anybody', could someone confirm as this is urgent.
Someone or somebody?
Any Everton fans visiting this site to gage our views on their new midfield supremo will be going back too their own forum with a much better understanding of the English language.
*gauge*
I don't even have the excuse of fat thumbs like most of you..
Only need the one full stop.
Were Aston Villa, we'll teach you grammar, Doubt it will take off... Unfortunately.
*We're*
-
Oh go on then, we're.
-
, doubt
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Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
... Not ......
You only need 3
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Mods now Cleverly is not going to be a part of AVFC time to stop running this thread perhaps?? We don't need him , this anymore. I'd rather have a James milner signed for Liverpool than having cleverly listened on the forum !!
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Mods now Cleverly is not going to be a part of AVFC time to stop running this thread perhaps?? We don't need him , this anymore. I'd rather have a James milner signed for Liverpool than having cleverly listened on the forum !!
Cleverley
Milner
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Mods now Cleverly is not going to be a part of AVFC time to stop running this thread perhaps?? We don't need him , this anymore. I'd rather have a James milner signed for Liverpool than having cleverly listened on the forum !!
Really don't know where to start with this one.
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
*Clever Chris*
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
*Clever Chris*
I see what you've done there and I like it.
Apologies, I'm incredibly bored at work.
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
*Clever Chris*
I see what you've done there and I like it.
Apologies, I'm incredibly bored at work.
No need to apologise, I'm incredibly bored at home ;D
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
His a Fukin nob
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
*Clever Chris*
I see what you've done there and I like it.
Apologies, I'm incredibly bored at work.
No need to apologise, I'm incredibly bored at home ;D
I'll be leaving to be bored at home in approximately 27 minutes. Not that I'm clock watching...
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
His a Fukin nob
Braaaaaap, Braaaap, etc
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
*Cleverley*
*Clever Chris*
I see what you've done there and I like it.
Apologies, I'm incredibly bored at work.
No need to apologise, I'm incredibly bored at home ;D
I'll be leaving to be bored at home in approximately 27 minutes. Not that I'm clock watching...
Saturdays without football are tragic, We could have all been bored at the match.
-
I might clean the bathroom when I get home.
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I'm so bored I'm on the bus to Cape Hill.
-
-
Cleverley only started playing well to win his new contract at Everton, overall he has about as many meaningful games as Gabby does. We can definitely do better...good ridance.
-
Anyway...... That Tom Cleverly? He's a bit meh, right?
... Not ......
You only need 3
Technically, as he started a new sentence (capital 'T') then he's allowed four (the three for the ellipsis and then a full stop)
Otherwise you're right, it's a big no-no.
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I'm so bored I'm on the bus to Cape Hill.
For no reason? Are you alright PWS? There's no need for it PWS. He wasn't even that good. Don't do it to yourself. Hang on in there pal.
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I'm so bored I'm on the bus to Cape Hill.
For no reason? Are you alright PWS? There's no need for it PWS. He wasn't even that good. Don't do it to yourself. Hang on in there pal.
Bored or suicidal?
Because unless it's changed a lot in the last 7 years, if you weren't when you left, you soon will be.
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I'm so bored I'm on the bus to Cape Hill.
For no reason? Are you alright PWS? There's no need for it PWS. He wasn't even that good. Don't do it to yourself. Hang on in there pal.
Bored or suicidal?
Because unless it's changed a lot in the last 7 years, if you weren't when you left, you soon will be.
Well I have to go that way every now and again and the only thing that is worse is a Paul Lambert post match interview.
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I like crisps.
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Bye Bye Tom, wont know if we have missed you until August and we see how we shape up, did a bit towards the end of your time here, but overall below average over the 30 odd games.
-
Looked good on the bench for England today
-
I think it's a shame we couldn't get him to sign, as he showed promise towards the end of the season. Begrudgingly you could also say by signing for Everton he's got his sights set slightly higher than Villa. But I won't, I'll say thanks for not very much Tom, now fuck off.
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I think it's a shame we couldn't get him to sign, as he showed promise towards the end of the season. Begrudgingly you could also say by signing for Everton he's got his sights set slightly higher than Villa. But I won't, I'll say thanks for not very much Tom, now fuck off.
What ever you think of him, ultimately he played a pretty significant part in keeping us up. So really he should go with our thanks.
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I think it's a shame we couldn't get him to sign, as he showed promise towards the end of the season. Begrudgingly you could also say by signing for Everton he's got his sights set slightly higher than Villa. But I won't, I'll say thanks for not very much Tom, now fuck off.
What ever you think of him, ultimately he played a pretty significant part in keeping us up. So really he should go with our thanks.
Agreed. Not forgetting with lots of our money as well.
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I think it's a shame we couldn't get him to sign, as he showed promise towards the end of the season. Begrudgingly you could also say by signing for Everton he's got his sights set slightly higher than Villa. But I won't, I'll say thanks for not very much Tom, now fuck off.
What ever you think of him, ultimately he played a pretty significant part in keeping us up. So really he should go with our thanks.
He played, what, 5 good games for us? he should be leaving with a ripple of apathy and not thanks for just about doing the job he's been paid stupidly for. If he's as average for Everton as he was for us, then those loveable, knowledgeable scousers will soon show him what fickle really means.
On to the next player who wants to use Villa as a stepping stone for "bigger" clubs.
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He was very average (AT BEST) under Lambert but picked up under Sherwood and actually played well in most of the last 7-10 games for us, weighing in with some key goals. I just didn't see the point of him as a player under Lambert but the one thing in his defence was that he never hid.
If the Sherwood version is the real Cleverley then I am slightly disappointed, but hardly heartbroken.
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I think trees everywhere are safe from being pulled up
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At his best, he showed that he's head and shoulders above every other player in our squad apart from Benteke and Delph. I wanted to keep him because he looked to be building a good understanding with Delph, and also because of the signal it sends that we've perhaps got a shred of ambition left.
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At his best, he showed that he's head and shoulders above every other player in our squad apart from Benteke and Delph. I wanted to keep him because he looked to be building a good understanding with Delph, and also because of the signal it sends that we've perhaps got a shred of ambition left.
This just about sums it up for me as well.
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Every player in our squad when playing at their best look the business. Gabby is unplayable, Weimann scores some beauties, Westwood controls the midfield, and so on. The key is that just like with Cleverley, we only see it from them in patches.
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Every player in our squad when playing at their best look the business. Gabby is unplayable, Weimann scores some beauties, Westwood controls the midfield, and so on. The key is that just like with Cleverley, we only see it from them in patches.
From admittedly what little we've seen, Cleverley at his best is comfortably better than Westwood or Weimann at their best.
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I'm not convinced it's comfortably better ;)
(http://cdn0.sbnation.com/assets/3634305/Westwood_1b.gif)
(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1715861/Weimann_Overhead.gif)
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If you're going to judge the relative merits on one goal then let's stick Zat Knight in midfield.
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It's not just one goal, it's an example of what they contribute, and can do, when playing at or near their best.
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He's gone, some are dissapointed, some never rated him anyway, some thought we had a good chance of signing a decent PL level midfielder given he seemed to be enjoying himself. but we didn't and now he's nothing to us! Can we close this one down now?
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It's not just one goal, it's an example of what they contribute, and can do, when playing at or near their best.
It is one goal. There's no way on earth that Ashley Westwood at his best is anywhere near to Cleverley at his best.
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It's not just one goal, it's an example of what they contribute, and can do, when playing at or near their best.
It is one goal. There's no way on earth that Ashley Westwood at his best is anywhere near to Cleverley at his best.
Ashley Westwood isn't ever scoring the goal Cleverley scored against Everton. And I like Westwood, but Cleverely covered so much ground in every game during that spell where we saw what he was capable of. For me also, the partnership being developed and understanding with Delph is why I wanted him to sign with us.
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It's not just one goal, it's an example of what they contribute, and can do, when playing at or near their best.
It is one goal. There's no way on earth that Ashley Westwood at his best is anywhere near to Cleverley at his best.
When playing at their best they both do their job very well and look very good players. Which is where we go back to my original point, have every one of our players playing at their best and Cleverley wouldn't be head and shoulders over every other player bar Benteke and Delph as most of our squad at their best look very good players, but just like Cleverely they don't do it often enough which is why we tend to be a bit crap.
As an aside, and nothing to do with the convo with Riss, looking back, one thing that counts against Cleverley for me is I can't remember one game when we were playing shit where he stood out or even looked like he'd carry us, lift us, or anything. In fact he often looked the worst of the lot.
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Cleverley has zero assists from the last 3 seasons, to me that's just not good enough for a midfielder.
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He's got married apparently - presumably there's a deal with OK! magazine as that's where I saw the photograph, whilst waiting to pay for something else in a shop. It would take a lot more than seeing Peter Andre's holiday snaps and Tom Cleverley's wedding photos to persuade me to buy OK!
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For most of last season he was certainly no better than okay.
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He was truly abysmal for over two thirds of the season, very good for about half a dozen matches, then average for the rest.
His good performances were very good, but I do wonder if we are pretty easily impressed after watching five years of absolute shit.
He would have been an alright signing, no more. If I am disappointed we didn't sign him, it is partly because it's another position we are going to have to fill this summer when we have enough work to do, and partly a pride thing watching him choose to go elsewhere.
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Not just that, he was developing a good understanding with Delph. Something that with a good pre season would have improved. Now Delph will need to create that with possibly one or two new midfield partners. Not a huge challenge, more an inconvenience when we have so many others to contend with.
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He was truly abysmal for over two thirds of the season, very good for about half a dozen matches, then average for the rest.
His good performances were very good, but I do wonder if we are pretty easily impressed after watching five years of absolute shit.
He would have been an alright signing, no more. If I am disappointed we didn't sign him, it is partly because it's another position we are going to have to fill this summer when we have enough work to do, and partly a pride thing watching him choose to go elsewhere.
I think you are right, a faint glimmer of something good and we all get extremely overexcited.
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For most of last season he was certainly no better than okay.
my spin on him is , for most of the season he was shit, when Sherwood came in for half the games , I could see what the fuss was about, but he's opted for eversecond so fuck him, we move on.
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If he was that good where was he on Cup Final day? As anonymous as he was for most of the season. I won't particularly miss him - we should be aiming for better than him.
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If he was that good where was he on Cup Final day? As anonymous as he was for most of the season. I won't particularly miss him - we should be aiming for better than him.
On that basis we'd sell delph, grealish and benteke right?
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If he was that good where was he on Cup Final day? As anonymous as he was for most of the season. I won't particularly miss him - we should be aiming for better than him.
On that basis we'd sell delph, grealish and benteke right?
I think they had more good days than bad days. Tom was the opposite
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Apparently he chose Everton over us because of "the overall package, the history,the players , the manager and the fans."
Wel our history stacks up OK so that means it was one of the other three,or maybe all three.
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Apparently he chose Everton over us because of "the overall package, the history,the players , the manager and the fans."
Wel our history stacks up OK so that means it was one of the other three,or maybe all three.
He forgot to add 'The North West' to his overall package.
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What a load of horse shit...he most likely got offered a better contract financially and closer to home. I'd have more respect for him if he just said he's joining a better squad of players.
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He played what 6 decent games in a season !
No great loss
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Their history isn't as good and their fans are bilge; North west location and a healthy wage is what swayed. As has been said mind, his good games don't reach double figures.
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I don't care what he says. During the relegation run in, he worked harder and cared deeper than many of our non loaned players. I remain grateful.
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Apparently he chose Everton over us because of "the overall package, the history,the players , the manager and the fans."
Massive club, fantastic supporters, great manager. Pretty much what every player says when he signs for a new club.
And in terms of history and trophies and support, Everton and Villa aren't that far apart. So it must have been for the money
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Maybe he just didn't want to have to move house?
Also, though Villa and Everton are highly comparable as clubs, Everton haven't spent five years mooking around with the guff at the bottom end of the table, though, which we can't ignore, they are a more attractive package at the moment as a result.
However, ultimately, it might just come down to him not having to move.
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Maybe he just didn't want to have to move house?
Also, though Villa and Everton are highly comparable as clubs, Everton haven't spent five years mooking around with the guff at the bottom end of the table, though, which we can't ignore, they are a more attractive package at the moment as a result.
However, ultimately, it might just come down to him not having to move.
He also said playing under Martinez again swayed his decision.
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He can say all he likes, but 75k a week and not having to move house are the reasons he signed for Everton, not because Bobby M is there or Everton are a great club. And who can blame him, I would have done the same. Still a weasel.
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Maybe he just didn't want to have to move house?
Also, though Villa and Everton are highly comparable as clubs, Everton haven't spent five years mooking around with the guff at the bottom end of the table, though, which we can't ignore, they are a more attractive package at the moment as a result.
However, ultimately, it might just come down to him not having to move.
He also said playing under Martinez again swayed his decision.
Because he wont have to defend and tackle ;)
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He can say all he likes, but 75k a week and not having to move house are the reasons he signed for Everton, not because Bobby M is there or Everton are a great club. And who can blame him, I would have done the same. Still a weasel.
None of that we know, though, do we?
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My take on it is he would have signed for Everton if they offered 10k less a week than us. He's from the North West, has enjoyed playing under Martinez before, and Everton finish in the top 10 as a minimum every season, whereas it is very up in the air what's happening with us.
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Not wishing to side-track but, that last game of the season versus Wimbledon in 1994 still remains highly suspicious to me. Obviously not beyond the realms of possibility to come back from 0-2 down after twenty minutes but, Everton were shit that season and given the match fixing allegations that emerged afterwards, I still have my doubts. I really wanted them to go that year, shame on me.
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Not wishing to side-track but, that last game of the season versus Wimbledon in 1994 still remains highly suspicious to me. Obviously not beyond the realms of possibility to come back from 0-2 down after twenty minutes but, Everton were shit that season and given the match fixing allegations that emerged afterwards, I still have my doubts. I really wanted them to go that year, shame on me.
My memory might be playing tricks but wasn't there a very dubious goal in that match involving a basic error by the Wimbledon goalie ?
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Knowing as I do the fondness many Evertonians have for the Villa, I don't see any issue at all in wishing to see them relegated.
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Not wishing to side-track but, that last game of the season versus Wimbledon in 1994 still remains highly suspicious to me. Obviously not beyond the realms of possibility to come back from 0-2 down after twenty minutes but, Everton were shit that season and given the match fixing allegations that emerged afterwards, I still have my doubts. I really wanted them to go that year, shame on me.
My memory might be playing tricks but wasn't there a very dubious goal in that match involving a basic error by the Wimbledon goalie ?
Who was the main suspect in the subsequent enquiry IIRC.
I don't wish relegation on anyone really as I feel the pain of every decent supporter of the clubs it happens to. The attendees of the likes of Manure, Chavski and Liverpool can kiss my big fat hairy arse mind.
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Everton’s Tom Cleverley and family threatened by burglars in raid on home (http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/oct/07/everton-tom-cleverley-burglars-manchester-home)
The Everton midfielder Tom Cleverley and his family were threatened by intruders armed with baseball bats during a raid on their Manchester home.
The former Manchester United player, 26, was in the house with his wife Georgina Dorsett and their two-year-old daughter when the break-in happened, but all were unhurt.
Everton’s Tom Cleverley intends to prove Louis van Gaal wrong
Read more
The intruders reportedly stole two cars, jewellery and handbags, with a source telling The Sun: “Tom and Georgina weren’t physically hurt but it was a horrific ordeal for them – especially as their little girl was with them. The only thing in their minds was protecting her. This was a very, very nasty incident and the couple have been shaken beyond belief.”
A Greater Manchester Police spokesman said: “At around 8pm on Friday 2 October 2015, police were called to an address in Hale Barns following a report of a break-in. Officers attended and discovered a man, a woman and an infant who had been the victims of an aggravated burglary. None of the victims were injured. An investigation was subsequently launched and is on-going.”
Sadly it does seem to be a relatively common occurance for Liverpool based footballers.
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That's horrific, It shouldn't happen but if I was a footballer or a high earner i'd get security. It's a sad old state
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It's amazing the amount of stories of robberies from footballers from that part of the world. And especially in this case where their child was present. Nothing is more terrifying for a parent than the thought of their children being hurt or worse.
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It seems to happens a lot for cheshire based footballers. I wonder how much security these homes have. They should use 50% of one week pay to invest in security every couple of years. Hope his family is ok.
Do the Midlands based footballers have any problems like this. Just asking.