Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Lucky Eddie on March 19, 2015, 08:06:05 PM
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He's getting absolutely slated on their fansites; they're convinced they're going down.
Funny old game.
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They're not going down, no chance.
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As much as I am enjoying seeing another club and manager fail I am not sure it is true Martinez turned us down. The only source I know of that rumour is Dave Wheelan.....
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It would be great if they went down but in reality they already have 31 points so only need another 4 or 5 and they have QPR @ the weekend...........
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They'll lose to QPR, they'll be knackered after their trip. They'll still stay up easily enough.
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They'll lose to QPR, they'll be knackered after their trip. They'll still stay up easily enough.
I really hope they don't.
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And a year ago a lot on here were noshing off Everton and Martinez and how he had them playing. It's a funny old game.
Sadly, there is no chance they will go down.
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Never rated Martinez as a player or manager. Or his dress sense and sensible interviews. Over rated
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And a year ago a lot on here were noshing off Everton and Martinez and how he had them playing. It's a funny old game.
Sadly, there is no chance they will go down.
It would have to be a spectacular collapse to go down from where they are and it would be bad for us ebcasue they've got to play all our rivals (and us to be fair). Draws against QPR, Burnley and Sunderland and batterings by everyone else would be the best outcome for us.
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They won't go down. I don't think they'll even get dragged into it.
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They would have to have the collapse of all collapses to go down as they may well only need another 3 or 4 points (maybe not even that) from the last 9 games.
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As much as I am enjoying seeing another club and manager fail I am not sure it is true Martinez turned us down. The only source I know of that rumour is Dave Wheelan.....
Surely he would know?
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They would have to have the collapse of all collapses to go down as they may well only need another 3 or 4 points (maybe not even that) from the last 9 games.
And if they did that there's a good chance that'd be trouble for us. I'd rather they beat QPR, Burnley and Sunderland.
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Unless it was a crazy offer, like Barca, Madrid etc I believe Martinez would have turned anyone down at that time. I've posted it before, but in a book I read a few years ago about Wigan, Martinez said it was his club and he loved them. And that was after he left as a player and was playing for Swansea.
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Need Everton to beat QPR . Looking at it from a neutral, Everton were a better prospect than Villa at the time.
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Need Everton to beat QPR . Looking at it from a neutral, Everton were a better prospect than Villa at the time.
There was also 2 years between our interest and Everton's.
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Never rated Martinez as a player or manager.
I don't think anybody has ever rated him a player. Unless you were watching Division 3 in the mid-nineties.
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Never rated Martinez as a player or manager. Or his dress sense and sensible interviews. Over rated
Definitely over rated as a manager and I have always said that. I would be interested to see his Wigan record in the PL compared to Bruce and Jewell. I reckon poorer than Bruce and on a par with Jewell. To be fair he did well at Everton last season which surprised me but Moyes left a steady ship that is now rocking. He has spent a few quid too.
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Never rated Martinez as a player or manager. Or his dress sense and sensible interviews. Over rated
Definitely over rated as a manager and I have always said that. I would be interested to see his Wigan record in the PL compared to Bruce and Jewell. I reckon poorer than Bruce and on a par with Jewell. To be fair he did well at Everton last season which surprised me but Moyes left a steady ship that is now rocking. He has spent a few quid too.
He's a chancer with an exotic accent and tailor made suit.
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As much as I am enjoying seeing another club and manager fail I am not sure it is true Martinez turned us down. The only source I know of that rumour is Dave Wheelan.....
Surely he would know?
Oh he would. But he is also a liar who happily would invent things to make his manager look good. For example after he publicly said Villa were interviewing him, but then Villa rejected him, it makes perfect sense he would make up a story inverting the truth.
All speculation of course but I have no reason to regard Dave Whelans word as credible. Particularly as Martinez and Villa stayed very silent about the whole matter.
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Think Everton are seeing the other side of the loan market, after last year they had to spend an utter fortune to stand still in making Barry & Lukaku permanent.
Defensively they look suspect with full backs who want to get forward but centre halves who are either garbage:Alcaraz over the hill:Distin or developing:Stones & Jagielka always has an error in him.
Can't see them being dragged in though, they have way too much quality surely?
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He can get a side playing good football. What he's always failed to do is organise and build a good defence. Last season it was alright, mainly by virtue of inheriting a very organised group from Moyes. Baines and Jagielka played very well and Distin still had something left in the tank.
This season has been different. Baines has been woeful and so has Jagielka. Distin's legs have gone. Martinez's defensive signings have been poor. They were poor at Wigan too and it's been no different at Everton.
That will always be his achilles heel. If he signs a couple of good players in the summer, for the backline, then I wouldn't envision more struggle.
They're not going down this season.
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As much as I am enjoying seeing another club and manager fail I am not sure it is true Martinez turned us down. The only source I know of that rumour is Dave Wheelan.....
Surely he would know?
Oh he would. But he is also a liar who happily would invent things to make his manager look good. For example after he publicly said Villa were interviewing him, but then Villa rejected him, it makes perfect sense he would make up a story inverting the truth.
All speculation of course but I have no reason to regard Dave Whelans word as credible. Particularly as Martinez and Villa stayed very silent about the whole matter.
I thought we asked for permission to speak to him but Martinez wasn't interested? Not that I know much about it, but it'd be a silly lie to tell given how easily Villa could have set the record straight. He's (Whelan) obviously a gobshite though.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Yes. So he did in fact turn us down in one sense, but not in the sense that he had been offered the job. Semantics, if we are honest.
The rationale to save our face at the time was that he was in a comfort zone and we were a a zone of great distress.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Yes. So he did in fact turn us down in one sense, but not in the sense that he had been offered the job. Semantics, if we are honest.
The rationale to save our face at the time was that he was in a comfort zone and we were a a zone of great distress.
We'd just finished ninth and were playing well.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Honestly I do not know. The only person who spoke publicly about it was Whelan (as far as I know). So I have always questioned the generally accepted view.
Perhaps some folks here have heard more from within the club? But until I hear otherwise I put the issue in the "I don't know, but I just assume Whelan is lying" bucket.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Yes. So he did in fact turn us down in one sense, but not in the sense that he had been offered the job. Semantics, if we are honest.
The rationale to save our face at the time was that he was in a comfort zone and we were a a zone of great distress.
We'd just finished ninth and were playing well.
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
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I doubt anyone expected us to struggle in 2010/11.
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The Houllier season has been done to death but the truth is that after an early period of upheaval we did well after January and there was a lot there for a new manager to work with. There was very little at the time for any potential appointment to be distressed about.
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I doubt anyone expected us to struggle in 2010/11.
We re talking about 2011/2112 are we not? He "turned us down" in June 2011.
Did anyone expect the central defensive pairing of Dunne and Collins who were in open open rebellion against GH's defensive methods and had broken disciplinary codes to stay? Did anybody think that Downing and Young would be around much longer and that the funds raised would be used to replace their quality?
The writing was on the wall. It will remain on the wall until RL has sold us off, and quite possibly a lot longer.
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I doubt anyone expected us to struggle in 2010/11.
We re talking about 2011/2112 are we not? He "turned us down" in June 2011.
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
5 seasons ago was 2010/11.
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I doubt anyone expected us to struggle in 2010/11.
We re talking about 2011/2112 are we not? He "turned us down" in June 2011.
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
5 seasons ago was 2010/11.
Yes, and my original comment was
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
Ok. In the season 2010/2011 under GH, we were still not mathematically safe with 2 games to go. I count this as a relegation struggle.
We approached Wigan to speak to Martinez and he politely declined.
2011/12 Relegation struggle culminating in revolt against McLeish.
2012/13 Relegation struggle under PL.
2013/14 Relegation struggle under PL.
2014/15 Relegation struggle under PL with Timeh (please God) to the rescue.
So, at the time we approached Wigan for RM, we had just completed what would be the first of five relegation struggles.
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He can get a side playing good football. What he's always failed to do is organise and build a good defence. Last season it was alright, mainly by virtue of inheriting a very organised group from Moyes. Baines and Jagielka played very well and Distin still had something left in the tank.
This season has been different. Baines has been woeful and so has Jagielka. Distin's legs have gone. Martinez's defensive signings have been poor. They were poor at Wigan too and it's been no different at Everton.
That will always be his achilles heel. If he signs a couple of good players in the summer, for the backline, then I wouldn't envision more struggle.
They're not going down this season.
Well, as the only club to have played in the top flight more often than us, fingers crossed for next season then.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Yes. So he did in fact turn us down in one sense, but not in the sense that he had been offered the job. Semantics, if we are honest.
The rationale to save our face at the time was that he was in a comfort zone and we were a a zone of great distress.
We'd just finished ninth and were playing well.
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
Agree on this - we got an initial bounce form the Bent signing and then won one game in 7 during Feb and March including 0-1 v Wolves at home which put us in the bottom 3.
We then rallied well in April and May.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
I'm not sure about 'very good'. Besides, you could argue he had a stinker every season with Wigan.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
I think the jury is still out but one poor season that might be partly attributed to the demands of Europa League football should not be taken as final proof.
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Oh and I certainly would have had him ahead of the person we did end up with in 2011.
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You do have to wonder about the defensive issues though. He never resolved them at Wigan; but maybe excusable because of his focus on playing attacking football coupled with a lack of money. A lot of people predicted that they would deteriorate on the defensive side of things as they moved further away from Moyes and the way he got that team organised. I don't know how much of it comes down to age apparently rapidly catching up to their defensive spine (Jagielka/Distin/Garry Barry), but watching them on MOTD they've looked shocking at the back pretty much all season.
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Caution is advisable here.
The season is far from over. I don't really want them to go down but have had my beady eye on them for some time as the team to sink like a stone and end up below us. If it's a case of us or them the answer is obvious and as for someone turning the chance to manage Aston Villa down, it is always their loss and never the clubs.
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I thought it was pretty much accepted that we asked permission to speak to him, were given it, but he said he didn't want to talk to us.
Yes. So he did in fact turn us down in one sense, but not in the sense that he had been offered the job. Semantics, if we are honest.
The rationale to save our face at the time was that he was in a comfort zone and we were a a zone of great distress.
We'd just finished ninth and were playing well.
I see what you mean in that we rallied at the end of the season, but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle.
Agree on this - we got an initial bounce form the Bent signing and then won one game in 7 during Feb and March including 0-1 v Wolves at home which put us in the bottom 3.
We then rallied well in April and May.
I know you finish where you deserve to after 38 games, but seeing the results over those final two weekends was like witnessing cosmic alignment.
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They have had a bad run but they did win 3-0 at the weekend. I think they are in a similar situation to us in previous seasons, looking in danger but just about keeping their head above water.
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Ok. In the season 2010/2011 under GH, we were still not mathematically safe with 2 games to go. I count this as a relegation struggle.
I said 2010/11 wasn't expected because of "but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle." I don't remember anyone thinking we'd have a relegation worry that season.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
I'm not sure about 'very good'. Besides, you could argue he had a stinker every season with Wigan.
Fair enough, we disagree on that, but I think he did a really good job at Wigan. Yes it was always a relegation fight, but you could argue they had no business staying up year on year like they did.
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Somebody did start a "will we go down" thread within hours of O'Neill flouncing off. He was derided as hysterical by just about everyone, myself included. In fairness, we shouldn't have even flirted with the drop with the quality of players we had at our disposal.
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I'm pretty sure we ran out of central midfielders at one point during that season, plus we didn't have a reliable centre forward until we bought Bent (Carew dropped off completely, Gabby was mostly injured, Fonz didn't make the step up, so we were left to play Heskey, who did alright but obviously was severely incapable of finishing moves.)
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I'm pretty sure we ran out of central midfielders at one point during that season, plus we didn't have a reliable centre forward until we bought Bent (Carew dropped off completely, Gabby was mostly injured, Fonz didn't make the step up, so we were left to play Heskey, who did alright but obviously was severely incapable of finishing moves.)
I thought he tried playing Gabby on the wing and Young more centrally which didn't work out too well. I get the feeling Houllier would have picked Heskey ahead of Carew in any event.
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I think K-Mac started the entire Young as no. 10 thing because we were short of strikers, and then we stuck to it because Albrighton and Downing were both in excellent form to start the season, and we wanted to squeeze all three onto the pitch at once. I do remember Gabby making some appearances on the wing at some point later on but he was predictably rubbish at it after his summer of bulking up and his general lack of understanding as to how to play there.
But yeah, from what I remember, we got dumped into it because our back 4 completely lost their form (Dunne and Warnock in particular), then completely lost its protection from the midfield, who then proceeded to get injured forcing us into playing luminaries such as 37 year old Pires and Jonathan Hogg there. Not to mention the entire change our style of play thing.
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I'm pretty sure we ran out of central midfielders at one point during that season, plus we didn't have a reliable centre forward until we bought Bent (Carew dropped off completely, Gabby was mostly injured, Fonz didn't make the step up, so we were left to play Heskey, who did alright but obviously was severely incapable of finishing moves.)
At one point that season we had 14 of the named 25 man squad and the 3 most promising reserves out injured at the same time (late october/early november time. Take 17 players away from any team in the league and they'd struggle.
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Never rated Martinez as a player or manager.
I don't think anybody has ever rated him a player. Unless you were watching Division 3 in the mid-nineties.
I was, Wigan mostly as it happens. He was the best of the 'Three Amigos' and was superb the season Wigan went up in about 97. The night they clinched promotion I saw him and Graeme Jones out in a Wigan nightclub called Pemps. Jones was being a right prick wandering round telling everybody he was worth £5m, but then he had scored 30 odd goals that year so we let him off.
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I think K-Mac started the entire Young as no. 10 thing because we were short of strikers, and then we stuck to it because Albrighton and Downing were both in excellent form to start the season, and we wanted to squeeze all three onto the pitch at once. I do remember Gabby making some appearances on the wing at some point later on but he was predictably rubbish at it after his summer of bulking up and his general lack of understanding as to how to play there.
But yeah, from what I remember, we got dumped into it because our back 4 completely lost their form (Dunne and Warnock in particular), then completely lost its protection from the midfield, who then proceeded to get injured forcing us into playing luminaries such as 37 year old Pires and Jonathan Hogg there. Not to mention the entire change our style of play thing.
I recall it was something in O Neills mind during that pre-season. Indeed Young actually started for us as a striker in his first few games, playing off Carew. I would imagine much of what KMAC did was a continuation of what O Neill had already put into place, with perhaps more emphasis on keeping the ball on the deck.
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I've long had my doubts about him and I'm not convinced he knows how to get a team to defend properly. At present, I'm wondering whether last season can be put down to him inheriting a decent team put together by Moyes.
As to whether he turned us down or not, he may well have done, but I file Whelan in the place as Ferguson when it comes to talking about contemporary players and managers. Their perspective was always to improve their position, whether it was Whelan talking up Martinez to get as much compensation for him as possible, or Ferguson sending a letter to Lerner about McLeish, knowing that the more of his clique he had in situ around the league, the easier life was for him.
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I think he's a pretty good manager, who's having a bad year. He also seems like a decent enough guy as well.
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I've long had my doubts about him and I'm not convinced he knows how to get a team to defend properly. At present, I'm wondering whether last season can be put down to him inheriting a decent team put together by Moyes.
As to whether he turned us down or not, he may well have done, but I file Whelan in the place as Ferguson when it comes to talking about contemporary players and managers. Their perspective was always to improve their position, whether it was Whelan talking up Martinez to get as much compensation for him as possible, or Ferguson sending a letter to Lerner about McLeish, knowing that the more of his clique he had in situ around the league, the easier life was for him.
You make some good observations. I think the letter to Lerner was post hiring. That in itself though should have been a cue for the alarm bells to start ringing very, very loudly. Refs on side or given ear ache, press on side or banned from conferences / Old Trafford, accolytes still in awe of him in place (other than Hughes) throughout the league to give him an easy ride.
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I've long had my doubts about him and I'm not convinced he knows how to get a team to defend properly. At present, I'm wondering whether last season can be put down to him inheriting a decent team put together by Moyes.
As to whether he turned us down or not, he may well have done, but I file Whelan in the place as Ferguson when it comes to talking about contemporary players and managers. Their perspective was always to improve their position, whether it was Whelan talking up Martinez to get as much compensation for him as possible, or Ferguson sending a letter to Lerner about McLeish, knowing that the more of his clique he had in situ around the league, the easier life was for him.
You make some good observations. I think the letter to Lerner was post hiring. That in itself though should have been a cue for the alarm bells to start ringing very, very loudly. Refs on side or given ear ache, press on side or banned from conferences / Old Trafford, accolytes still in awe of him in place (other than Hughes) throughout the league to give him an easy ride.
I'd long suspected him - Ferguson, that is - of it, but all his talk since he's been retired of how important it was to be 'in control' just kind of confirmed it for me. I've no doubt he preferred to have the likes of Bruce roll up, take a 4-0 drubbing and simper through a post-match interview talking about 'the boss', than the likes of Benitez nit-picking.
Whelan did it to make as much money as possible, but he's not the only one, mind. A cursory think about it brings to mind Barry Fry valuing Jonathan Hunt at £27 million or Ian Holloway talking up the likes of Charlie Adam. It seems to work to some extent as well, as people fall for it often enough.
I'm not convinced Martinez doesn't fall into this category. Only time will tell, I guess.
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I am a bit surprised by Everton's troubles this season but I would point out that Everton were on this cycle of one good season followed by a bad one when Moyes was in charge. They are merely continuuing in this pattern with Martinez.
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I am a bit surprised by Everton's troubles this season but I would point out that Everton were on this cycle of one good season followed by a bad one when Moyes was in charge. They are merely continuuing in this pattern with Martinez.
You have to go back some way back to see that translate into league placings though. Here are there league placings over the past few years:
02/03 - 7th
03/04 - 17th
04/05 - 4th
05/06 - 11th
06/07 - 6th
07/08 - 5th
08/09 - 5th
09/10 - 8th
10/11 - 7th
11/12 - 7th
12/13 - 6th
13/14 - 5th
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I like his approach to the game and how he tries to get his teams to play, but unfortunately the Premier League being what it is we see seasoned managers like Allardyce and Pulis (both also very good at their jobs) being "successful" with their way of doing things.
I know whose brand of football I'd rather watch week in week out and hope he turns it round for the sake of the game and himself.
As for him turning us down - I got the impression Randy Lerner wanted him merely because he'd shown he could do a good job on a low budget at Wigan, rather than for his footballing philosophy (a theory backed up by our subsequent appointment). If Martinez felt that too then I don't blame him for saying no thanks. It wouldn't have worked.
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I've long had my doubts about him and I'm not convinced he knows how to get a team to defend properly. At present, I'm wondering whether last season can be put down to him inheriting a decent team put together by Moyes.
As to whether he turned us down or not, he may well have done, but I file Whelan in the place as Ferguson when it comes to talking about contemporary players and managers. Their perspective was always to improve their position, whether it was Whelan talking up Martinez to get as much compensation for him as possible, or Ferguson sending a letter to Lerner about McLeish, knowing that the more of his clique he had in situ around the league, the easier life was for him.
You make some good observations. I think the letter to Lerner was post hiring. That in itself though should have been a cue for the alarm bells to start ringing very, very loudly. Refs on side or given ear ache, press on side or banned from conferences / Old Trafford, accolytes still in awe of him in place (other than Hughes) throughout the league to give him an easy ride.
Agree with both. Ferguson was like that. He sure won a lot of games though. Bastard.
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If I recall correctly the only time I thought we wouldn't go down in 2010/11 is when we beat West Ham 2-1 when we dominated the game after I think Keane put them 1 up early on. Just checked - 16th April. I think it's fair to say we ended well - a la Wigan for a few seasons - but we were undoubtedly in a relegation scrap.
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I recall having a chat over a couple of beers just after new year last year. My two mates (non-toffees) were really praising RM to the skies while I congratulated him on 'falling upwards' after relegating Wigan. Their reaction was similar to that if I'd shat on their lunch-plates.
Funnily enough, when I've seen them since they didn't seem too keen on continuing the discussion...
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Martinez plays decent football, that's undeniable, his teams can put together some decent attacks, but his inability to spot a decent defender or organise average defenders into a solid unit means he'll always struggle unless he accepts those limitations and brings in someone to do those things for him.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
I think the jury is still out but one poor season that might be partly attributed to the demands of Europa League football should not be taken as final proof.
I think it's more of a case of one good season than one poor one. Every year at Wigan they looked awful all season and didn't start playing until the clocks went forward. Over the course of the season Jewell and Bruce looked more comfortable. Lets not forget he did finally take Wigan down too.
His only decent season was last year but that's more, like others have said, due to inheriting a very good side. Now that he's put his stamp on the team they are showing true Martinez colours.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
This is what I think. Thing is he hit the ground running there and just because they were playing a more eye catching brand of football than under Moyes people got carried away in suggesting that he maybe even better (forgetting of course than Everton had punched above their weight for a good portion of Moyes 11 years), but now they are having a poor season the reaction has gone to the other extreme. I say judge him after this season. They are in no danger of going down for me, it would be one of the biggest shocks ever if they did.
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He's a very good manager, but he's having a stinker of a season. It happens, like it can happen to players. They'll be fine.
I think the jury is still out but one poor season that might be partly attributed to the demands of Europa League football should not be taken as final proof.
I think it's more of a case of one good season than one poor one. Every year at Wigan they looked awful all season and didn't start playing until the clocks went forward. Over the course of the season Jewell and Bruce looked more comfortable. Lets not forget he did finally take Wigan down too.
His only decent season was last year but that's more, like others have said, due to inheriting a very good side. Now that he's put his stamp on the team they are showing true Martinez colours.
Thats not really fair though. On their budget and given such things like support and the kind of players they could attract Wigan were always going to stuggle with the drop reguardless of who the manager was. I think he did a very good job there and I don't think them going down should take too much away from that.
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I think K-Mac started the entire Young as no. 10 thing because we were short of strikers, and then we stuck to it because Albrighton and Downing were both in excellent form to start the season, and we wanted to squeeze all three onto the pitch at once. I do remember Gabby making some appearances on the wing at some point later on but he was predictably rubbish at it after his summer of bulking up and his general lack of understanding as to how to play there.
But yeah, from what I remember, we got dumped into it because our back 4 completely lost their form (Dunne and Warnock in particular), then completely lost its protection from the midfield, who then proceeded to get injured forcing us into playing luminaries such as 37 year old Pires and Jonathan Hogg there. Not to mention the entire change our style of play thing.
I recall it was something in O Neills mind during that pre-season. Indeed Young actually started for us as a striker in his first few games, playing off Carew. I would imagine much of what KMAC did was a continuation of what O Neill had already put into place, with perhaps more emphasis on keeping the ball on the deck.
Young should never have been played off the striker, he just didn't have the game intelligence for it and didn't score enough goals from open play.
Given the form Downing has shown this season for West Ham playing in an advance role he should've been played there instead with Young kept out wide.
Strange season 10/11. Yes 9th looked alright but we were in a major relegation battle for most of the season. On this weekend of that season we lost dismally at home to Wolves 1-0 who at the time were in the bottom 3 and they weren't far behind us at that point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9425547.stm
Look at that table. It's a bit like this season we continue on a mad winning run and finish 10th or 11th. You couldn't say we were comfortable mid table for most of the season could you.
Anyway I rate Martinez as a manager. He won Wigan the FA cup and yeah Wigan were in constant relegation battles but that's purely to the size of the club. It was inevitable they'd go down at some point and look at them now, about to go back down to league 1 which tbh is their natural home.
Everton however have massively underachieved this season. They do actually remind me a lot of us in that 10/11 season, decent attacking players nulified by a hopeless defence so certainly a big year ahead of him next time as Everton should be back pushing the top 6.
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I would not at all be surprised if I'm wrong on this, but I always felt that Wigan had become much more frugal (relative to the rest of the league) by the time Martinez went there. Not saying they were moneybags and all in their first few seasons, but it did seem like the well had run pretty dry by 2010 or so, outside of him wasting money on Mauro Boselli.
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I think you're correct in that. When they first came up they spent a fair bit under Steve Bruce. People like Heskey and N'Zogbia were being signed for good fees and wages.
Aside from Boselli, Martinez was generally shopping in the cheap foreign market and SPL, he found James McArthur and McCarthy for peanuts from Hamilton so in a strange sort of way his job at Wigan was very similar to Lambert's remit here, find cheap bargains and generally keep the team up.
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Ok. In the season 2010/2011 under GH, we were still not mathematically safe with 2 games to go. I count this as a relegation struggle.
I said 2010/11 wasn't expected because of "but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle." I don't remember anyone thinking we'd have a relegation worry that season.
For me when O'Neil walked out it seemed like an opportunity to take the next step up into the top 4 with a new manager. Most of the work had been done and then it only needed the right man to come in and complete the task. I think Randy was thinking the same but when we went in the opposite direction, that was when he lost interest.
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Ok. In the season 2010/2011 under GH, we were still not mathematically safe with 2 games to go. I count this as a relegation struggle.
I said 2010/11 wasn't expected because of "but from my viewpoint this was the first of of 5 years of not unexpected relegation struggle." I don't remember anyone thinking we'd have a relegation worry that season.
For me when O'Neil walked out it seemed like an opportunity to take the next step up into the top 4 with a new manager. Most of the work had been done and then it only needed the right man to come in and complete the task. I think Randy was thinking the same but when we went in the opposite direction, that was when he lost interest.
I lost a bit of faith in Randy at that point. We'd just finished 6th three times in a row so you'd think with a bit of clear thinking a decent continental manager could've been tempted from somewhere.
Instead Houllier was appointed in farcical fashion and others like Curbishley were being considered.
In hindsight we should've given it McDonald for a bit longer and waited until a decent manager became available at some point in the season as obviously the options were limited that August.
I think he was going to be given that job for the season but 6-0 at Newcastle changed everything and obviously the decisions and austerity since then have pushed us 10 places down the league.
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I'll be hoping he gets his team to turn up and win tomorrow.