Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on August 23, 2014, 02:50:10 PM
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We go again.
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Happy we weren't beat. But blimey we are so poor in the forward and creative departments. No shots on target. Last on motd. But top.
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0 shots on target sums that match up perfectly. Still 4 points out of 6 isn't bad at all.
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From the reports on both Aly and Sanchez, the defensive aspect of their game was solid, their technique not so good.
TBH, that might have been the case when compared to the other players they were playing alongside (in the case of Aly) or in the league they were playing in, in the case of Sanchez. But their technique doesn't look suspect to me. Aly is strong at the back, firm in the tackle, has a good turn of pace and offers an attacking threat. In short, everything you want from a fullback.
From the small bit we seen from Sanchez there too, he is far more than a 'keep it simple and give it to the ballplayers' type watercarrier. He has good control and a good range of passing.
Still early days, but encouraging from both. That new rightback we have plucked from obscurity looks like a real find too.
We are still light in midfield though, and our forward options at present are concerning.
Gabby and Weimann do have qualities, but neither look like much of a goal threat on even a semi-regular basis. That's fine, if they were the type of forwards who bring others into play by holding the ball up, but they don't do that either. Anytime the ball goes near them, it rarely sticks.
As it stands, we could do with two players in before the window.
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So it looks as though we still can't impose ourselves on the game at home, and we lack creativity. On the other hand, the defence looks pretty solid most of the time.
All in all, not great, but better than last year, and with our 2 best strikers yet to return, so reasons to be cheerful.
Also: https://vine.co/v/MLT1uxMbuHx
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Benteke can't come back quick enough. But at least we've rediscovered the lost art of defending.
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We are looking weak up front, but I still think the lack of service is a factor in that. We are better suited to playing away, but this home form has to improve. However, the defence looked solid again (even if they didn't have to deal with much), and Guzan once again made a couple of important saves to prove that he is one of the best in the top flight. Overall, four points and two clean sheets, with a couple of promising signings and the likes Benteke to come means a steady start.
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Lambert has just said we had some great chances in the first half. He did also say it was a game we would have lost last season. We did lose it last season.
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A solid performance, lacked any cutting edge, but solid is progress and we've got two good striking options to come back.
Real credit to the fullbacks and Delph who I thought were great.
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I'm happy. Last season we couldn't defend or attack other than on the break. This season we can't attack other than on the break but we CAN defend. The style is limited, but at least we're good at it.
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Ooooh he's just said Ron won't be leaving that's for sure.
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I don't think we defended good today the only reason we got a point is because Newcastle were just as rubbish. If we were playing a better side today we would of lost comfortably.
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This is where we should have been two years ago.
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Take the point. We are a harder team to beat which in its self is an improvement and Newcastle look a decent side tbh.
Thought Hutton was outstanding again , beat Hull and we'll be moving along nicely. Nothing to exciting but stable which is key.
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Thought the substitutions were too negative.For me NZog and Richardson were our most creative, not sure what Gabby and Weimann offered tbh.
Good start to the season though and CB will make a big difference.Sanchez should start and Delph encouraged to pus up more, still not over convinced by Westwood.
Cissokho and Hutton were very good again.
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Decent point that.
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Thought the substitutions were too negative.For me NZog and Richardson were our most creative, not sure what Gabby and Weimann offered tbh.
Good start to the season though and CB will make a big difference.Sanchez should start and Delph encouraged to pus up more, still not over convinced by Westwood.
Cissokho and Hutton were very good again.
I thought N'Zog looked really poor tbh
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I don't think we defended good today the only reason we got a point is because Newcastle were just as rubbish. If we were playing a better side today we would of lost comfortably.
The game would have been totally different. You're talking rubbish.
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Agree with that dw, be interesting to see the next 2 signings.
Replace Gabby , Westwood, Weimann and Richardson, not far off a top 10 team
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The game was crying out for Jack or Joe. Hopefully they become prominent in the team soon or we sign someone of their talent but halfway between both in age.
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Yeah last week was more of a impressive battling display, where the defence handled themselves very well at what is a tough away ground. Today they did what they had to do, but that was very little. Am happy with a point and clean sheet, but lets not kid ourselves defences were on top today.
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Most direct player we have though Goldie, too many safe passes made by the rest of the forward players
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I don't think we defended good today the only reason we got a point is because Newcastle were just as rubbish. If we were playing a better side today we would of lost comfortably.
The game would have been totally different. You're talking rubbish.
You're talking rubbish.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delf the only player with any idea.
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4 points, no goals conceded...not too bad. Need to find something up front pretty quick.
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We do need another creative midfielder in the side. We know that Zog will have as many off days as on. We know Cole will spend large chunks of the season injured and has always struggled for consistency on top of that. And Jack is a young lad.
One more creative player is a must.
In terms of our front line. I think we can hold out until Benteke and Kozak returns. If we create enough chances for the likes of Bent and Weimann, they'll probably grab a few goals between now and the return of the aforementioned.
4 points from 6. 2 clean sheets. Improved results against sides we got extremely well beaten by. Stoke got a pretty comfortable 6 points off us last season. Newcastle beat us thoroughly convincingly at our patch too.
Given we're without are star striker, I'm more than happy with the start we've made. Unspectacular, but solid and resolute. Senderos has looked solid.
Long may it continue.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delf the only player with any idea.
That is a bit extreme he did score last week and Gabby looks worse right now to me. At least Weimann has good work rate. By the way I thought Zog had a poor game too. He maybe just one of those players who is a more effective sub.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delph the only player with any idea.
Delph was the best player today by a mile, shame others like Gabby do nothing week in week out and still get picked.
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This is where we should have been two years ago.
Better late than never, hey.
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I really like Delph and some of his bursts forward when in possession are immense but I still can't decide whether he really has it in his locker to control a game in the manner that Colback and co did so today. Whether he would improve with better players around him or he is just suited to playing this deep lying counter attacking football is still up in the air for me.
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We do need another creative midfielder in the side. We know that Zog will have as many off days as on. We know Cole will spend large chunks of the season injured and has always struggled for consistency on top of that. And Jack is a young lad.
One more creative player is a must.
In terms of our front line. I think we can hold out until Benteke and Kozak returns. If we create enough chances for the likes of Bent and Weimann, they'll probably grab a few goals between now and the return of the aforementioned.
4 points from 6. 2 clean sheets. Improved results against sides we got extremely well beaten by. Stoke got a pretty comfortable 6 points off us last season. Newcastle beat us thoroughly convincingly at our patch too.
Given we're without are star striker, I'm more than happy with the start we've made. Unspectacular, but solid and resolute. Senderos has looked solid.
Long may it continue.
This is an old debate but why do we need to sign a striker when we know that Benteke and Kozak are not too far away from returning? I agree that the attack was rubbish today, but part of that was down to lack of creativity and poor service from wide areas.
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I think Gabby and Weimann were pretty ribbish. CNZ flattered to deceive.
Delph and Westwood did well. Hutton and Cissoko were both very good too. Sanchez looked comfortable and Richardson did ok.
More work required.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delph the only player with any idea.
Delph was the best player today by a mile, shame others like Gabby do nothing week in week out and still get picked.
Gabby's seriously got to do something quickly. Poor in pre-season and very sluggish so far this season. I think even slapping Bent in at this point, would feel less like we're carrying a passenger. Plus even if Bent does nothing for 89 minutes, he might still grab you a goal.
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Agreed that the substitutions were fairly negative. Creativity has been an issue since Downing and Young left, and I can't see it changing any time soon, sadly.
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We do need another creative midfielder in the side. We know that Zog will have as many off days as on. We know Cole will spend large chunks of the season injured and has always struggled for consistency on top of that. And Jack is a young lad.
One more creative player is a must.
In terms of our front line. I think we can hold out until Benteke and Kozak returns. If we create enough chances for the likes of Bent and Weimann, they'll probably grab a few goals between now and the return of the aforementioned.
4 points from 6. 2 clean sheets. Improved results against sides we got extremely well beaten by. Stoke got a pretty comfortable 6 points off us last season. Newcastle beat us thoroughly convincingly at our patch too.
Given we're without are star striker, I'm more than happy with the start we've made. Unspectacular, but solid and resolute. Senderos has looked solid.
Long may it continue.
This is an old debate but why do we need to sign a striker when we know that Benteke and Kozak are not too far away from returning? I agree that the attack was rubbish today, but part of that was down to lack of creativity and poor service from wide areas.
I didn't say we should sign a striker. I don't think we need to at all really. An attacking midfielder though is a must. As you say, poor service and no creativity is the biggest issue. Bent and Weimann can finish a chance if you give it to them.
I think there's a lot of promise with Sanchez, whilst Richardson might be better employed further up the pitch as he might whip a few crosses in.
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People seem to be so harsh on N'Zogbia. He has just returned after missing a year. He has a talent that not too many of our squad have and it's going to take time for him to return to top speed.
As for signings - a striker would be a waste of money. Once the two are back they will be benched. If anything we need a creative spark to create some chances. I'm quietly satisfied thus far and don't think we need major tinkering. If the defence continue then we won't have too many major issues.
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Agreed that the substitutions were fairly negative. Creativity has been an issue since Downing and Young left, and I can't see it changing any time soon, sadly.
I would've liked to see Cole or Grealish come on, but to be fair to Lambert, Newcastle were well on top and bringing on Sanchez gave us a bit more solidity.
Probably could've brought one of them on instead of Bent though.
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People seem to be so harsh on N'Zogbia. He has just returned after missing a year. He has a talent that not too many of our squad have and it's going to take time for him to return to top speed.
As for signings - a striker would be a waste of money. Once the two are back they will be benched. If anything we need a creative spark to create some chances. I'm quietly satisfied thus far and don't think we need major tinkering. If the defence continue then we won't have too many major issues.
I like Zogbia. He's always going to be one of those players who performs in fits and starts. You have to account for that. He might be poor today, but next week he could do something sensational and win us the game. I think you have to gamble on players like that sometimes, rather than play someone who's consistently ordinary.
My personal issue is the alternatives should Zogbia be injured or in a rough patch. I don't trust Coles fitness and we can't rely too much on Grealish just yet. In addition we could do with more than just one flair player on the pitch in some games.
A signing is still a must.
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I thought N'Zog was pretty good but his head went in the second half. Him and Hutton really were like having two new players.
Our team has plenty of room for improvement but I feel far more confident with our new back 4.
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Take the positives: (1) another clean sheet; (2) 10% of the way to 40 points after 5% of the games; and (3) for the most part our summer signings seem to improved areas of the team that needed improving.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delph the only player with any idea.
Delph was the best player today by a mile, shame others like Gabby do nothing week in week out and still get picked.
Gabby's seriously got to do something quickly. Poor in pre-season and very sluggish so far this season. I think even slapping Bent in at this point, would feel less like we're carrying a passenger. Plus even if Bent does nothing for 89 minutes, he might still grab you a goal.
It looks like Gabby is one of Lambert's favourites and will play in every game. That's a problem for us as it keeps someone else out who might do something.
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Am willing to give N'Zogbia a chance its just that he hasn't done a whole lot since signing three years ago so this is a big season for him.
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Happy with a point and another clean sheet.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delph the only player with any idea.
Delph was the best player today by a mile, shame others like Gabby do nothing week in week out and still get picked.
Delph sat far too deep first half forcing Gabby to drop deeper to link up play. For the first 25 minutes of the first half he was great. Not sure why Richardson was playing central midfield, though to his credit he did put in a shift.
N'Zogbia does what he always does. Looks like he could do something but rarely does. Admitedly he's still coming back from injury so hopefully he can finally start delivering but I doubt he will.
Andi is no winger and stuck out on the right he's absolutely no threat. Newcastle's central defence were very compact and reduced the space for us second half. Fortunately Delph was allowed to get forward and we looked like we could finally open them up but the delivery still needs to improve.
We still don't look like we'll ever score from a free kick or corner. Something we need to work on as goals from open play don't look like they will happen in the near future. We're far too grouped at corners, making it easy for teams to defend.
Overall an improvement on last season, at least the commitment is there. I'd have taken a point before the game but then I'd completely overestimated the quality of Newcastle. There were 3 points there for the taking today but after what we've been through at Villa Park, I guess I'm relatively content with the point. We still don't seem to have a plan but we're getting a few of the basics right which is progress.
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As David Byrne once sang: could have been worse, could have been a lot better.
Nice first touch from Sanchez (pass out to Hutton or Weimann), but it's clear we have to be a bit patient with him till he gets used to the pace of the league.
And full credit to Hutton - a real professional.
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Thought we looked quite solid but very unspectacular and liked what I saw Cissokho, Delph and Hutton were excellent, Agbonlahor did his usual Forrest Gump, he simply isn't good enough.
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We can see that we need to bring in a creative spark in the next week or so, and that goals are going to be at a premium until that happens and our two best strikers come back from injury. If that is the case then we need to keep things tight until those things happen.
That looks to me like what we've done so far this season. I have pretty much no doubt we'd have lost that match with last season's defence, so to have taken a point and looked defensively solid is a good place to be
There is no point with all that "yeah but Newcastle are shit" stuff either. They were who we were playing. Newcastle were also shit last season but they still beat us in this fixture.
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I didn't think we used the ball vey well in the second half, where as I thought our full backs did well in the first and we put a number of crosses into the box, looking half dangerous.
But I am glad that we still looked so solid. They had one good chance where Westwood was caught on the ball clearing it and Brad made a good save. If you're not going to win the game, make sure you don't lose it.
I thought he referee made some odd decisions and really fell for their diving and play acting. It didn't affect the result, but their number 20 was a right little wetter.
Still, we are without both our first and second choice strikers, while we still need a couple of attacking players to add more guile and spark. We look a hell of a lot tougher though. Sides are going to know they've played against us. Some real bruisers in there and even the likes of Richardson aren't mucking around.
Pleased with a point and taking more positives than negatives from it.
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I also want to point out how well Hutton played too. A fantastic bit of positional covering to deny Newcastles arch diver and he looked very good going forward too. Cissohko also played well. Hope it's nothing serious.
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Good defensively, but same old, same old with our midfield and strikers. Little creativity in the former, no quality with the latter.
As before you cannot play Weimann out wide. Firstly he isnt a winger or good enough technically, but there is nothing in the middle when he gets the ball, as our midfield doesn't get forward quick enough.
I thought Zog and Richardson would be the wide players allowing Weimann to play more central.
Gabby was again poor.
I would like to see Grealish given more game time.
Overall, happy with a point and the Geordies has enough chances to win
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Poor game made worse by some shocking refereeing decisions. Coloccini was class for them but Cabella is just a little tart - the way he went down holding his face in the first half was nothing short of embarrassing. Maybe N'Zogbia had accidentally caught his twatty haircut. Thought Cissokho and Richardson combined really well - any news of how bad Cissokho's injury was? Also thought Lambert got the substitutions wrong - taking N'Zogbia and Richardson off meant no real creativity or likelihood of crosses for Bent, and would have liked Grealish to get 15-20 minutes. Cissokho got man of the match but for me Delph impressed yet again and we really need to get him tied down. And we desperately need to get Benteke back - neither Gabby or weimann look even close to scoring any time soon
I may be wrong but when I looked across at the dugout during the 17th minute applause it looked like Pardew was the only one in the ground not clapping. I can't imagine he would be that disrespectful so maybe he just stopped before everyone else
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Ooooh he's just said Ron won't be leaving that's for sure.
Brilliant news ! Was it a Sky Sport interview or where did you hear it ?
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It was on BT Sport. He said Vlaar won't be leaving for as long as he (Lambert) is at the club.
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Happy with the points on the board so far and the defence looking like a defence should
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One up front at home is way too negative. When that one up front is Gabby - well, meh.
If wasn't working first half - surely at some point we should have pushed Wiemann up alongside him . Even when Wiemann was took off , Gabby dropped back to midfield and Bent was isolated up top.
Lambert does not look to win games - he looks not to lose - there is a huge difference.
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Benteke can't come back quick enough. But at least we've rediscovered the lost art of defending.
No point having Benteke on the pitch if we can't get the ball into him.
We desperately need some guile and creativity.
That said, we do look nice and solid, and will certainly be much more difficult to beat than last year.
What has happened to Gabby ? He's almost like a caricature of himself, if that make sense.
It seems to me that there is a bloke who really is just cruising along not doing a fat lot, but continuing to get picked. He really needs a massive kick up the arse, but I'm not sure even that is enough now.
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I thought that Lambert was right to take N'Zogbia off as he was starting to tire and get frustrated. On a yellow card, he could have ended up being sent off. Bringing Sanchez on allowed him to move Delph further forward. Taking Richardson off was to push another man (Bent) up front. Unfortunately Cissokho was injured which meant Gabby had to drop wide an deeper to cover in front of Baker.
We are crying out for a good wide player and an inside forward type player. We are relying a lot on Benteke coming back but he cannot do it all on his own.
I was not displeased with a point today as we are starting to get more confident at the back. What we need to realise is that with that confidence you do not need to pull so many players back behind the ball. Sanchez looks big and strong and should be able to start dictating play in front of the back four, allowing Delph and Westwood to push further forward, which will allow Gabby and Weimann to both push up on the last man.
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Agreed that the substitutions were fairly negative. Creativity has been an issue since Downing and Young left, and I can't see it changing any time soon, sadly.
I would've liked to see Cole or Grealish come on, but to be fair to Lambert, Newcastle were well on top and bringing on Sanchez gave us a bit more solidity.
Probably could've brought one of them on instead of Bent though.
Grealish should have come on instead of Bent - someone coming from deep in the last 20 might have made the breakthrough.
However 4 points from 2 games is okay.
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What has happened to Gabby ? He's almost like a caricature of himself, if that make sense.
It seems to me that there is a bloke who really is just cruising along not doing a fat lot, but continuing to get picked. He really needs a massive kick up the arse, but I'm not sure even that is enough now.
Owen made the point in the first half when a cross was put in with pace that Gabby should have gambled and gone for it. I think that is the problem with him now, he is not putting everything in. He is working hard in covering when we do not have the ball but he should be in the side to be a threat up front and score goals. You have to be playing on the edge and anticipating things, getting across your player at the near post or dropping off in the area to create space. He is not doing any of this.
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All in all not great but enough. Newcastle ahd 3 opportunities when ther ball found itself to the far post but missed poorly each time. A better team could have given us a tonking. But, you can see it's still building bl;ocks at the moment. thought Richardson offered little and would have taken NZog off and put richardson out wide but Cole on to play on the hole. fair call for the sub though as Sanchez allowed Delpd to get further forward.
Cissokho certainly didn't appear to lack a first touch as mentioned earlier and I thought sanchez looked composed. Overall disappointed but it didn't have the same feel as last season as we did look like there could be something there. It'll probably be one of those where it falls into place by accident by a player getting injured and the pack being reorganised leading to something clicking.
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It was on BT Sport. He said Vlaar won't be leaving for as long as he (Lambert) is at the club.
On TBAR that will be interpreted as a new manager coming in.
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Benteke can't come back quick enough. But at least we've rediscovered the lost art of defending.
No point having Benteke on the pitch if we can't get the ball into him.
We desperately need some guile and creativity.
It's easy to get the ball to Benteke. You just smash it in his general direction, and it sticks because he has the height and strength to hold it up. That's essential if you're set up to play a counter-attacking game as we are.
I agree some more guile in the final third is a must, though. We badly need someone who can play with his head up but who's also pacey and can contribute with a goal threat. Weimann and Gabby worked hard today and they are quick, but neither of them have the ability to make a yard of space and pick a pass, they both panic and rush their decision-making as soon as they get anywhere near the opposition area. Cole is a more intelligent player, but unfortunately I don't think he has the pace to perform that role.
The defence was impressive again, though. It's great to see two centre-halves covering each other properly. When Vlaar came out to deal with the first ball, you'd frequently see Senderos slot in just behind him to collect the second one, and it worked a treat. That's easier when your full-back is covering for you, mind. And Hutton in particular was top drawer.
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thought Vlaar and Hutton were excellent. Sanchez offered much needed presence in midfield. Delph broke forward from midfield well.
Again couldnt fault the effort of the players but the lack of quality from midfield and further forward was fairly evident. Nzogbia, Richardson, Gabby, Weimann and Westwood (with the exception of a few set pieces) were awful. Bent too can barely even run. Its early days but Id be inclined to get Grealish in starting already. Bacuna and Grealish did well coming in last week so were unlucky not to get a run today. Baker should be nowhere near the squad and proved as much in his brief cameo.
We certainly seem physically stronger this year but today was further evidence that we are really going to struggle to even create chances this season never mind score goals with the same players. Richardson may be an upgrade on Tonev but that seems to be about it.
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Thought defensively we were great. And that's a brilliant start as far as I'm concerned.
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It was on BT Sport. He said Vlaar won't be leaving for as long as he (Lambert) is at the club.
On TBAR that will be interpreted as a new manager coming in.
Or that the Second Coming is imminent.
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The bench looks a lot stronger, we actually have some options now. Not sure there are many goals in that starting XI but we will lose a lot less games this year judging by that performance and last week.
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I wonder if Hutton will actually be offered a new deal.
Something inconceivable last year.
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From what I have seen in the first two matches it is not going to be pretty this season. The decision has been made to make us solid and cut out the stupid errors. I think the team will get better as the season goes on.
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Like the look of Richardson. Apart from one badly misplaced pass he was composed and generally looking to do something with it when he had the ball.Also gets stuck in.
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I wonder if Hutton will actually be offered a new deal.
Something inconceivable last year.
I hope so.
There. I said it.
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Sure it's been said, two games, no goals conceded. Happy with that so far.
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Well, once again the defence,all of them, looked fit for purpose. That was a very good stop by Guzan towards the end. The midfield were ok but obviously not outstanding. Both Agbonlahor and Weimann were ineffective. Weimann in my opinion lacks the basic attributes to be a top class forward. He should be operating at Championship or even Division I level. Hopefully our two big men will be back in the next month.
We are going to need them.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
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I was just about to ask, was the 17th minute applause for the two Newcastle fans respected?
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
For the two Newcastle fans that were killed on flight mh17
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I was just about to ask, was the 17th minute applause for the two Newcastle fans respected?
Very much so. Pretty much everyone joined in.
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Satisfied with the point. We showed we can pass it, we also showed we can be toothless up front. Hope Sisko is ok, he has looked very good so far. As has Hutton. A week ago i'd have taken 4 points and 2 clean sheets so no real complaints from me. Apart from the shit attendance. And the monsoon at the final whistle.
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I was just about to ask, was the 17th minute applause for the two Newcastle fans respected?
Very much so. Pretty much everyone joined in.
Great, delighted to hear that.
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Yes it was respected , extremely well.
As for us, defensively looked very solid. It's good to have strength all the way along the back line. Really pleased with Alan Hutton and Aly Cissokho.
Carlos looked like he will be a really good addition, happy with Delph and Westwood but not overly impressed with Richardson.
As for up front, Weimann really isn't good enough for me, and Gabby, well, I watched him closely today. Trotted from side to side, hardly ever closed down their centre backs, I think he actually ran about five times. The rest was at walking pace - we can't afford passengers and he's our biggest passenger IMO.
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Now that we've seemingly tightened up a bit at the back and are yet to get our best strikers back, plus one or two more signings to come in (hopefully) and Vlaar not leaving, I am hopeful that we can give the FA Cup a good go this season.
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Boss Paul Lambert watched Villa earn a creditable point against Newcastle and hailed his side's "terrific start" to the season.
Villa added a resolute 0-0 draw with the Magpies to the 1-0 victory over Stoke from the previous weekend.
Lambert felt his side deserved the point after a performance full of desire and determination.
He said the only thing missing was that "finishing touch."
Overall, he's thrilled with the early signs from 2014-15.
He said: "To pick up four points from six is a terrific start for us. The start we have been made has been really good.
"We've certainly taken the challenge on this season.
"Today, I thought we were excellent - in the first half we were excellent, all we needed was a finishing touch.
"Newcastle came down here last season and did a job on us. I don't think anyone could begrudge us getting something out of that game.
"We had chances. I couldn't ask for any more effort.
"Tactically in the first two games I think we've been spot on. The only thing missing was a goal. Fair play to them, they've been excellent.
"I couldn't fault the way we played. We were resolute, it's another clean sheet and there were some really big performances there.
"Today all we needed was a finishing touch."
Lambert may have been craving that necessary touch in the final third but he certainly couldn't grumble with the defensive display of his team, who clocked up their second successive clean sheet.
He added: "We have been tougher. That's a great testament not only to the back five but also the midfield lads who are putting one hell of a shift in.
"I thought Aly Cissokho was outstanding. Philippe Senderos has been brilliant and Alan Hutton has been outstanding.
"Alan was excellent today. I thought him and Aly were outstanding.
"Aly was that good they had to put their own Sissoko on the right side to try and stop him because he was that powerful.
"Alan was excellent the whole game. It's great for ourselves, Alan himself and Scotland too, who have a game coming up against Germany. He is in excellent form."
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Never happy to drop points at (should be used to it now though), but more good than bad really. Better discipline and a lot more organised. Need Benteke back and firing quickly.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
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Brilliant performance from the whole back 5, particularly the full-backs. Sanchez looked solid on his debut and was nice to see a big midfielder who can win headers for a change. I honestly thought Joe Cole should have come on to help us hold the ball and play in their half a bit more.
Bad that we're still playing counter attack at home, but I think this team has a lot more to come as they blend together and the two big guys come back.
Top 10 and a cup run needs to be our ambition this season and this squad is more than capable.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Possibly, but we kept at it for over a season with Petrov. I think Newcastle fans can mourn the victims in any way they wish.
For me I like to see fans rally for each other and for other clubs fans no matter what. It is a nice gesture and something that unifies us.
I do understand what you mean though. I think anyone who has lost someone close can feel a tinge of bitterness that the world didn't care when your loved one died. It is a hard thing either way :(
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Thought we did ok today. Looked much better at the back. Cissokho was great. Yep, up front we need to get Kozak and Benteke back asap. Sanchez looked great . Vlaar didn't need to look great `cos he had some good people around him. Mostly positives for me from today.
Regarding that applause on 17 mins, I think fair enough, we did it for Stan and fully deserved, these lads were just doing what we have all done for years but were unlucky enough to be involved in this. I am happy to stand and applaud for them, just like I hope they would/did for us.
Onwards and upwards for me from today UTV
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Don't get the zog bashing, he was easily better than gabby and Weimann who both offered sweet fa again. I'd be inclined to play Grealish v hull and drop Weimann. Bent for gabby ? Not sure on that as bent is a stone overweight .
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Happy with the point & a clean sheet. Two toothless teams that never looked like scoring, I think the emphasis this season will be on being solid & difficult to beat. However, we've played 4-3-3 for 2 seasons at home & struggled to score & that won't change unless we get better players to replace Gabby or Weimann.
Plus points, Cissokho, Delph & Hutton.
Minus points, Weimann's first touch, Westwood's lightweight defending & N'Zogbia running down blind alleys.
I doubt we'll get 10 goals between Gabby, N'Zogbia or Weimann. Though limited in what he brings to the team I think Gabby gets a hard deal most of the time.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Chill out man. Minutes applause aren't exclusive to Petrov. It's vogue to do it now and if it helps the suffering friends and relatives then let's support it.
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A solid defence is always a good starting point for improvement, so it's difficult to be upset with our start to the season. We still look so poor from a creative point of view though, and I was very surprised to see Bent coming on rather than Joe Cole - why bother with him at all if not to make the difference in games like this? But perhaps he is not fit enough to play.
Our three best players today, in my opinion, were Cissokho, Hutton and Richardson, which does reflect rather well on Lambert. Our worst players today were Weimann and Agbonlahor and I would be over the moon, Clive, if they were replaced as soon as possible.
Credit to Vlaar and Senderos, too, who I thought might struggle against the guile of some of Newcastle's players. I was wrong about that, they looked very comfortable indeed. I honestly can't remember Reveille (sp?) doing anything of note at all.
Overall, not too bad at all.
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They had the best chances , two missed in the first half both by their full backs then poor defending allowed de Jong in 2nd half but brad saved us. Defence did well with a slice of fortune. Did we make Krull make a single save ??
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Look we kept a clean sheet and played ok.. Not great, not good but ok.
Came out of Villa Park quite calm, nice feeling..
Baby steps and all that but were making progress.
Just enjoy it.
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We desperately need the creativity Palacios will bring us.
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I said its a decent point and it's been a brilliant start. Especially happy with the defence. The foundation of any decent side.
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At least there's also some semblance of consistency too. You could be forgiven after the Stoke win for expecting us to turn to complete dog doodoo the next game, but we didn't. I think the key thing also is, that we've been good value for our 4 points. There were a number of points we got last season that were more than fortunate. We absolutely burgled some of them. That'll happen over a season, and that'll happen against us, but at one point last winter it was accounting for a large total of our points. When that luck ran out, as inevitably it does, we weren't deserving wins and we weren't getting them either. At some juncture you have to warrant your points, you have to be good value for them. So far we have been.
If we start chalking up more well earned points, and perhaps have the luck to perform a few daylight robberies again this season, then we'll be pretty comfortable. The biggest positive is that we look well organised.
We're also easing new players in and trying to shake off a pretty godawful string of results from the tail end of last season too. I think if we continue building on these grafted results, we'll get a little bit more fluid in the attacking sense as the confidence grows too.
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I would like to have seen Joe Cole on for the last fifteen minutes in place of Weimann. He could have created something for Bent to finish off
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Decent start to the season.
I'm a little confused by Sanchez, a little underwhelmed infact.
I know he was only on for a bit, but he sat very deep and stood right off every Newcastle player when they had the ball.
Isn't he meant to be a ball winner, which would involve closing people down?
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I would like to have seen Joe Cole on for the last fifteen minutes in place of Weimann. He could have created something for Bent to finish off
Good job job we didn't do that as we'd have been down to 10 when Aly went off.
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Thought we looked good today, we abandoned the hoof ball game that was prevalent last season and passed the ball around. Although there was a dearth of clear cut chances it's good that we kept another clean sheet and remain unbeaten. With Sanchez, Okore and Benteke to really come into the fold I can only be positive about how things are going.
Personally happy about the way the display went, considering it was first game and a 12.45 kick off it's heartening. UTV.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/o5b2g4.jpg])
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I would like to have seen Joe Cole on for the last fifteen minutes in place of Weimann. He could have created something for Bent to finish off
I think the Cissoko injury prevented that, sadly.
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Thought we looked good today, we abandoned the hoof ball game that was prevalent last season and passed the ball around. Although there was a dearth of clear cut chances it's good that we kept another clean sheet and remain unbeaten. With Sanchez, Okore and Benteke to really come into the fold I can only be positive about how things are going.
Personally happy about the way the display went, considering it was first game and a 12.45 kick off it's heartening. UTV.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/o5b2g4.jpg])
Is that Collymore? And Dion costing us a derby game. Really a hero moment?
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Decent start to the season.
I'm a little confused by Sanchez, a little underwhelmed infact.
I know he was only on for a bit, but he sat very deep and stood right off every Newcastle player when they had the ball.
Isn't he meant to be a ball winner, which would involve closing people down?
As you said, it's a bit harsh to judge him on his 30 minute debut, but I think he did quite well. He keeps it simple and always was looking for the ball. I think he'll be a much needed different option for our midfield this term, as well as Richardson and N'Zogbia.
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4 out of 6 is good however it's disappointing that we were not able to win this one after a hard earned victory at Stoke last week. N'Zogbia's free kick was the closest any side came close to scoring and generally pleased we didn't lose against a very creative midfield and tricky forwards comprised Newcastle side. Their defence is weak however we do not have forwards good enough at the moment to deal even with that. Gabby and Weimann I am afraid are just not good enough but that is all we have now. When Kozak and Benteke return we will be much more potent not just due to their return but also that this time they will be playing in front of good defence and solid midfield. Today we didn't deserve anything more than what we got.
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Decent start to the season.
I'm a little confused by Sanchez, a little underwhelmed infact.
I know he was only on for a bit, but he sat very deep and stood right off every Newcastle player when they had the ball.
Isn't he meant to be a ball winner, which would involve closing people down?
You mean go chasing dog to ball fashion like Holman? I thought he was OK. Had huge presence and calmed everything down.
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Thought we looked good today, we abandoned the hoof ball game that was prevalent last season and passed the ball around. Although there was a dearth of clear cut chances it's good that we kept another clean sheet and remain unbeaten. With Sanchez, Okore and Benteke to really come into the fold I can only be positive about how things are going.
Personally happy about the way the display went, considering it was first game and a 12.45 kick off it's heartening. UTV.
(http://i58.tinypic.com/o5b2g4.jpg])
Is that Collymore? And Dion costing us a derby game. Really a hero moment?
It is Collymore and Dion is also hero to some, personally i think that image is an iconic moment, of course it wasn't advised, no ones going to stick it in a coaching manual but it's one that depicts the passion of a derby game. Everyone has different heroes, these are some of ours.
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Jeeze, its pretty easy being a hero with you lot then.
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Don't think there's anything wrong with the Dion thing on a banner. i also think it made not a jot of difference on that night either. We were always going to lose so laying the nut into Savage was the smallest of victories for us to grab onto.
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Don't think there's anything wrong with the Dion thing on a banner. i also think it made not a jot of difference on that night either. We were always going to lose so laying the nut into Savage was the smallest of victories for us to grab onto.
As it was 0-0 at the time I think it made a lot of difference. Villa descending to their level is not a victory of any kind.
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To each their own, but that didn't strike me as a very 'Villa' moment, or at least not the side of Villa I want to be proud of.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
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Don't think there's anything wrong with the Dion thing on a banner. i also think it made not a jot of difference on that night either. We were always going to lose so laying the nut into Savage was the smallest of victories for us to grab onto.
Eh? You obviously didn't see the game. It was 0-0 and both teams were shit and it was clearly heading for 0-0. Dublin contributed greatly to the defeat. Stupidity at its foremost.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
So you'll clap for a minute every time a football fan dies?
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We could have been 10-0 down and it would still have been shameful. We sank to their level that night and Dion's part in it was the worst.
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It's Newcastle's tribute, not ours. Let them do what they want. If you don't agree with it, don't join in. It's pretty simple.
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I didn't watch the match, but, after reading the reports and comments on here, I'm thankful of not renewing my ST as it still sounds the same as usual.
Is it wrong I wasn't really fussed about watching it?
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The bench looks a lot stronger,
Yes I noticed the additional metal struts added in the centre and right hand side
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Anyway, back to today's game. Not a shot on target? Good defensively. Perhaps the plan is to bore the opposition to death? Can't wait for big Christian Benteke to get back.
No KEA on the bench?
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I didn't watch the match, but, after reading the reports and comments on here, I'm thankful of not renewing my ST as it still sounds the same as usual.
Is it wrong I wasn't really fussed about watching it?
Pleased for you. Well done.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
I think that is a very unfair reaction to a reasonable comment to be fair.
I joined in and I feel very sorry for their families and the people who knew them, but football supporters die of cancer or in car crashes all the time. I think it is legitimate to ask why it makes it different that they were in a plane crash. It is also unfortunate that there is a tendency to shout down anyone who questions things like this.
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The bench looks a lot stronger,
Yes I noticed the additional metal struts added in the centre and right hand side
Well, Joe Cole looked to be carrying a bit of girth round the midriff so perhaps the reinforcement was needed.
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Lots of other supporters clapped for Stan Petrov.
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Lots of other supporters clapped for Stan Petrov.
And if they didn't, they'd get that "no respect" shit flung at them. If Newcastle fans want to pay tribute to their own then who are we to say it is right or wrong? If anyone doesn't agree with the tribute, don't clap.
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Christ clap in the 17th minute or don't , but don't question it. Jesus.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
So you'll clap for a minute every time a football fan dies?
If its in such Terrible circumstances .....yes
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In the grand scheme of things clapping for something that helps bring a tiny bit of comfort isn't that much to ask is it. Not like this kind of thing happens often thankfully. It's hardly worth questioning or even positioning yourself as someone who does.
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We'll need to offer more up front to get more fans to return (low turnout today). Thought we moved the ball better and more quickly in the first half but not so much in the second. The defence generally looked better but with the team set up like this at home, if we concede it's going to be unlikely we'll win.
Lambert's over-use of 'excellent' is still bemusing and becomes meaningless given the context of a game where we never looked like winning.
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We could have been 10-0 down and it would still have been shameful. We sank to their level that night and Dion's part in it was the worst.
Very much so.
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Decent start to the season.
I'm a little confused by Sanchez, a little underwhelmed infact.
I know he was only on for a bit, but he sat very deep and stood right off every Newcastle player when they had the ball.
Isn't he meant to be a ball winner, which would involve closing people down?
As you said, it's a bit harsh to judge him on his 30 minute debut, but I think he did quite well. He keeps it simple and always was looking for the ball. I think he'll be a much needed different option for our midfield this term, as well as Richardson and N'Zogbia.
I thought it was a promising debut from Sanchez, did his defensive duties without any alarms and looks like he can pick out a decent pass too.
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Just over 30k there today. Very worrysome I'd imagine for the hierarchy. This constant dicking about with KO times and the shite home form don't help though.
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We could have been 10-0 down and it would still have been shameful. We sank to their level that night and Dion's part in it was the worst.
Very much so.
Exactly. That's what their heroes do. Ours score winning goals in European Cup Finals.
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The low attendance can hardly be a surprise given the general sense of apathy felt over the summer. In fact today I went to a home game on my own for the first time in many years. Until this season, there were 9 of us with season tickets. Today there are two...and my mate decided to go to the cricket instead!
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We didn't loose,never looked liked scoring,the sooner Benteke comes back the better. Thought Gabby and Weimann were very poor. Both fullbacks were excellent I thought and make us a lot stronger,even got forward well. 3 points next week before the tough run of fixtures and I will be happy.
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Decided to start a Villa blog after today, here's my review on today's game if anybody's bothered.
http://chipsticksvilla.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/match-review-aston-villa-0-0-newcastle.html
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Looking good after today. Liked the Blog.
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Cant we have a thread about people who were there and watched it or watched it via any other media. I'm sick of reading about those who don't go anymore, those who couldn't be bothered to watch it.. I'll happily clap for a minute if those poster's, don't bore me every post match thread.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
So you'll clap for a minute every time a football fan dies?
If its in such Terrible circumstances .....yes
Old age doesn't count then? Or cancer? Or any such other illness that has caused death?
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I didn't watch the match, but, after reading the reports and comments on here, I'm thankful of not renewing my ST as it still sounds the same as usual.
Is it wrong I wasn't really fussed about watching it?
Pleased for you. Well done.
Such a witty retort for a genuine question. I'm pleased for you. Well done.
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Cant we have a thread about people who were there and watched it or watched it via any other media. I'm sick of reading about those who don't go anymore, those who couldn't be bothered to watch it.. I'll happily clap for a minute if those poster's, don't bore me every post match thread.
Yeah, let's have a genuine fans support thread.
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I watched it.
The defence was excellent
the midfield was average
the forwards (Gabby and Weimann) were fucking awful
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I watched it.
The defence was excellent
the midfield was average
the forwards (Gabby and Weimann) were fucking awful
An improvement them. I'm currently debating whether to go next week, positive comments help!
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
So you'll clap for a minute every time a football fan dies?
If its in such Terrible circumstances .....yes
Old age doesn't count then? Or cancer? Or any such other illness that has caused death?
In my opinion, no. These 2 guys were specifically traveling to the other side of the world to see NUFC play... hence why their supporters quite reasonably want to remember them at NUFC football games. It won't go on for ever. If you don't want to applaud then don't.
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I watched it.
The defence was excellent
the midfield was average
the forwards (Gabby and Weimann) were fucking awful
Watched online, good summary.
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We could have been 10-0 down and it would still have been shameful. We sank to their level that night and Dion's part in it was the worst.
100% agree, Dion was a coward not a hero that night!
As for the game, thought we were solid. Look forward to when Sanchez settles in, hopefully will mean the rest of the midfield can play a few yards further up the pitch and as such liven us up as an attacking force.
Gabby, I've felt for a couple of years that we set up to accommodate him rather than him contributing. Because of the nature of Benteke's injury I would love Lambert to get a striker on loan who is a) capable of winning the occasional header and b) capable of controlling & holding a ball up. Gabby & Weimman continually fail to produce consistently and it is time to freshen it up...
Hope Cissokho is not badly hurt, we need that first choice back four available
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Having met and spoken to the family of one of the Newcastle lads who died, I can assure you that the applause will mean a great deal to them. They're an ordinary working class family and the support shown by football supporters is about the only thing helping them to make sense of what happened.
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Having met and spoken to the family of one of the Newcastle lads who died, I can assure you that the applause will mean a great deal to them. They're an ordinary working class family and the support shown by football supporters is about the only thing helping them to make sense of what happened.
This is what clubs are for, in my opinion. If the arbitrary cheering-on of one set of colours against all the others is going to manifest in anything positive, then it's in things like this.
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Defence - very good
Midfield - average
Attack - woeful
Subs - questionable
Attendance - low
MOTD - last ?
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Again!
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Well 4 points from first 2 matches mean there are a lot more positives than negatives..We aren't going to avoid becoming perennial relegation battlers overnight but the signs are encouraging so far.
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We were terrible going forward no imagination no craft, Weimann should be benched, well played Delph the only player with any idea.
Delph was the best player today by a mile, shame others like Gabby do nothing week in week out and still get picked.
Gabby is pretty awful these days. One of the main reasons that Villa had no shots on goal was because he and Andi were normally nowhere near the goal.
There were plenty of decent crosses but no Villa players got anywhere near them. Bent should start and just be told to hang around in the goalmouth.
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Pleased with the beginning to the season for Villa and also today, with the wholehearted response to the memorial for the Newcastle fans on the plane that was disgracefully shot down by a bunch of selfish introspectively political chancers in charge of equipment they should never have been allowed anywhere near, in any universally humanistic or democratic universe. B*s*ds.
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What was the applause for in 17th minute? We arrived smack on kick off so if there was an announcement we missed it. Joined in tho.
Two Newcastle fans died on 17th July on the MH17 air crash, and yes it was universally respected
Is it me, or is this applause thing getting a bit OTT.
Terrible circumstances in which to die, but applause for the rest of The season?
Are we supposed to do this for every supporter that dies?
Respect is respect and it cost you 1 min of your time and it means a lot to them...hold your head in shame
So you'll clap for a minute every time a football fan dies?
If its in such Terrible circumstances .....yes
Old age doesn't count then? Or cancer? Or any such other illness that has caused death?
I think the telling factor is 'does everybody know about it'. If a death is at the front of public consciousness it is more likely to attract a widespread reaction.
Don't worry about it ao much.
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Why people are getting their Y fronts In a twist over a minutes applause is baffling . It's not like this happens every week FFs !
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
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If we can now get a good result midweek, and a win at home vs Hull on Sunday it will have been a super start to the season. 7pts out of 9 will be more than most will have expected so going into an international break gives us a really nice platform to build from.
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Defence did well, especially Hutton and Cissokho. Never thought I'd be saying that!
Delph was brilliant, I love the way he glides past opposing players as if they're not there. Sanchez looked like he'll be a good player for us, can see him needing a few games to adjust to a new league though.
Rubbish up front. We miss Benteke so much.
30k attendance wasn't great, but you can't complain as we've been awful at home for far too long now.
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Benteke will struggle to score with the lack of quality around him, need to get two decent forwards and send Gabby and Weimann back to the reserves. They both need a reminder that they can be replaced.
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
Don't worry too much - there are some positives too.
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
Don't worry too much - there are some positives too.
Yes if we are going for 0-0 or 0-1 each week
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
4 points though. This is the tactic - sit back, soak up and break. We are at least good at this rather limited tactic this season - last season we sat back and were ripped to shreds.
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
4 points though. This is the tactic - sit back, soak up and break. We are at least good at this rather limited tactic this season - last season we sat back and were ripped to shreds.
True. It will work fine for a time, if vlaar gets injured were screwed .
We need some actual offence / creativity. Zog did well today but gabby and Weimann need dropping.
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
Don't worry too much - there are some positives too.
Yes if we are going for 0-0 or 0-1 each week
Do you really think that's what we are trying to do? Because my guess would be, and call me mental, that Lambert would have loved to see us score 3 or 4 both games this season.
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As we pretty much have to persist with at least one of Wiseman and Abonglahor i'd prefer playing Andi as a main striker as he can at least score now and again. Sticking him out wide really is a waste.
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Oh and 1 shot on target in 2 games now. Tragic really.
Don't worry too much - there are some positives too.
Yes if we are going for 0-0 or 0-1 each week
Well we would finish with 76 points so yes please
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The number of bookings is starting to worry me. I know that the ref, or more importantly the TR side Lino had poor games but this season Villa have taken yellow cards for minor offences rather than the Baker/Hutton Hong Kong Fuey impressions.
At least Williamson's second yellow and dismissal prevented a decent goal chance.
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As we pretty much have to persist with at least one of Wiseman and Abonglahor i'd prefer playing Andi as a main striker as he can at least score now and again. Sticking him out wide really is a waste.
Maybe we should try Clarke up front.
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As we pretty much have to persist with at least one of Wiseman and Abonglahor i'd prefer playing Andi as a main striker as he can at least score now and again. Sticking him out wide really is a waste.
Maybe we should try Clarke up front.
As long as Guzman is on form we can try it.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
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As we pretty much have to persist with at least one of Wiseman and Abonglahor i'd prefer playing Andi as a main striker as he can at least score now and again. Sticking him out wide really is a waste.
Yeah I'd drop adbongalor and play wiseman down the middle with Zog on the wing and someone else out wide other side.
Hull is a game we must get a bit more on the front foot and at least work the keeper.
Krull didn't have a save to make today which is shocking.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Not the most pachydermatous lot, are they?
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
pfft. Couldn't give a shit what they think. Makes us relegating them a few seasons back all the more funny though.
have to say, i spent more time looking at supermac's avatar than the replies, mind.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
They mentioned our fans keeping the ball, but their fans did it too. Weird how they didn't say anything about that ::)
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Their souls are as empty as their trophy cabinet.
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Christ clap in the 17th minute or don't , but don't question it. Jesus.
It's a debate on a forum so ok to question it.
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Having met and spoken to the family of one of the Newcastle lads who died, I can assure you that the applause will mean a great deal to them. They're an ordinary working class family and the support shown by football supporters is about the only thing helping them to make sense of what happened.
Well said, thought it was great of the Villa fans to join in. Lest us forget it was us who started this clapping for our captain and I recall outrage on here that some opposition fans didnt respect it. These lads were not Stan, but they were involved in a tragic incident following the club they loved around the world to a pre-season friendly.
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It's not all of them that think that way. There are always complete bell ends amongst all supporter groups.
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Think they're moaning about our lads keeping the ball in lower north. What they forget is they did the same first half ! Morons .
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
What they've never understood is that every set of supporters in the league would have behaved exactly the same as we did that day. Years of having to put up with that Geordie nation/everyone's second club bollocks and we laughed when it went wrong for them. They were up their own arses then and they still haven't learned.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
To be fair Dave, I think most fair minded Newcastle fans would have realised the backing given by Villa fans during the applause today, you always get some idiots
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Most clubs have twats. I know some very nice Newcastle fans and some incredibly bitter ones.
I feel bad for the nice ones as the bitter ones really are the gift that keep on giving. Every season they become a laughing stock by reminding themselves and us how they relegated themselves at Villa park. One of the highlights of the season as they wallow in it!
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They also fail to realise that most fans take the piss regardless of who the opposition are. Look at the way Sunderland ripped into Manure a few years ago for example. It's what fans do, take the piss out of the opposition when it goes wrong for someone when playing them.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
What they've never understood is that every set of supporters in the league would have behaved exactly the same as we did that day. Years of having to put up with that Geordie nation/everyone's second club bollocks and we laughed when it went wrong for them. They were up their own arses then and they still haven't learned.
I agree with this. I recall Sunderland fans at Villa in 74/75 at end of season, they had thousands outside the ground. Also in 80/81 when they were outclassed by a Gordon Cowans inspired team and lost 4-0, the majority of them still supported their team till the end. This bollox of Newcaslte fans being the best around is just that, they aint the best in their own region
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
What they've never understood is that every set of supporters in the league would have behaved exactly the same as we did that day. Years of having to put up with that Geordie nation/everyone's second club bollocks and we laughed when it went wrong for them. They were up their own arses then and they still haven't learned.
Of course, if the boot had been on the other foot and we'd have been about to get relegated at St James Park all of their supporters would have been cheering for us and crying at the final whistle.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
What they've never understood is that every set of supporters in the league would have behaved exactly the same as we did that day. Years of having to put up with that Geordie nation/everyone's second club bollocks and we laughed when it went wrong for them. They were up their own arses then and they still haven't learned.
I agree with this. I recall Sunderland fans at Villa in 74/75 at end of season, they had thousands outside the ground. Also in 80/81 when they were outclassed by a Gordon Cowans inspired team and lost 4-0, the majority of them still supported their team till the end. This bollox of Newcaslte fans being the best around is just that, they aint the best in their own region
I've never met anyone from Sunderland who wasn't really nice.
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I have no problem with their enmity towards us and if it was reversed I'm sure I'd remember just as long as they do. they do take themselves ever so seriously though which makes any adverse football/stories about them all the more entertaining and funny. I've always quite liked newcastle but this modern-day since football began version is tedium in the extreme.
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We desperately need the creativity Palacios will bring us.
have we signed palacios?
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Well, I quite enjoyed that. The defence was mostly sound, and Hutton and Cissokho were even for MOTM in my opinion. The centre of midfield is weak for us, and when they're up to speed I'd give Cole and Sanchez a try together. My daughter enjoyed her first trip to both Villa Park and The Bartons, and it was good to catch up with Joe, Anne Marie and a few of the usual reprobates.
Unbeaten after two games with no goals conceded is just what we needed after last season.
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To be honest if we'd been relegated at st James and they had un hurled pre made banners I know a load of our lot would be bitter against them.
Give it another decade and it's all forgotten.!
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As for the game, thought the full backs were class, need Benteke on the end of the crosses from Cissokho. Centre backs were solid, though Senderos does shit me up every time he has the ball, reminds me of when I was young and trying to chat up a girl well out of my league, which was just about them all. Delph became a bigger influence when Sanchez came on, he looks a better passer than I had been led to believe as didnt see him in world cup tbh. Westwood was good imo, not sure if the more forward role will suit him though as not the most mobile. Richardson good effort, but average today. N'Zogbia had the better of left back but we didnt get him isolated against him. Gabby was shite IMO and Weimann was just as bad, hated his reaction for the booking and he should be ashamed of himself, petulant. That said, didnt think it was hand ball, but was more pist off when he was running through in first half and chose to shoot from 30 yards when two lads free on left
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Only downside for me were Ashley's corners - dear me...
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Not beating the first defender with a corner is criminal. We also got caught out yet again with a quickly taken corner, we really need to be more aware as we got caught a lot with them last season.
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Not beating the first defender with a corner is criminal. We also got caught out yet again with a quickly taken corner, we really need to be more aware as we got caught a lot with them last season.
In other words you're asking Barry Bannan back ?
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I don't want them over hit either, so no.
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Gabby had a free header from a corner from what I remember and did feck all. I didnt think we would have 4 points after two games and happy tbh.
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As bad as Gabby and Andi were, I still believe we are always a chance of stealing a goal on the break. It's hard to be creative when you are shitscared of conceding, and if we keep defending like we have been we will be more confident of taking calculated risks in the future.
I was most worried when Senderos got turned and exposed for pace, so having Okore fit will be nice. Cissokho looks really good and Hutton is a breath of fresh air. They were most responsible for any attacking threat while still very solid at the back. Gabby and Andi have become so used to having to defend from the front that they didn't gamble on attacking the fullbacks' crosses.
I'm pretty sure Cole or Grealish would have come on if we didn't have to use the third sub on replacing left back.
As to shots on target, we had some close misses and blocked attempts which to my mind are as good as on target shots that go straight at the keeper. Zog's header and fk could have gone in on another day.
The big disappointment was that we went back into our shells in the second half instead of building on the previous 30 mins before the break where we actually started to press and tried to move the ball around. And we didn't have any creativity on the field when they went down to 10 men for the last couple of minutes was frustrating.
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I was surprised that Richardson didnt come on when Sanchez xame on, really negative decision and think it caused confusion to Pattern was better when Bent came on, though he dont look up to speed. We were awful first 15 mins of second half and really needed someone to take control of the ball.
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Still in touch with the Champions League places.
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Was at the cricket so didn't follow the game. Some thoughts and questions:
Would have definitely taken four points from these two games and great we're looking stronger at the back
As we all predicted we really lack attacking threat with our current injuries
A massive problem remains in lack of creativity and quality on the ball. Subbing n'zogbia and Richardson off while keeping cole and grealish on the bench would hardly have helped that. I think we need more quality on the ball against hull
How did the midfield look once sanchez came on? I presume he held. We're Westwood and Delph either side, or something different?
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Sanchez looked a class above the rest of our midfield. One of his first touches was a lovely pass to pick out a run into the box. Most everything he did looked simple and assured. he was clearly rusty but his class shone through imho.
On the negative side I couldn't help but compare him to Delph & Westwood and thinking to myself "You pair are nowhere near his ability".
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
I wish you'd post a bit more because that seems spot on.
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Defence looks absolutely solid with 2 fullbacks that can actually defend. Just have to be more attack minded up front and add a bit of width to the team. There's no point in having a striker if there's no supply. That second half was frustrating.
Get your wallet out, Lerner.
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Not sure even Benteke would have much joy without adequate support.
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Gabby and Weimann are just not up to it. Apart from them, the rest of the side did really well and I hope Cissokho is not injured too badly.
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A deserved point. It could have gone either way.
Like the look of the back four. But we need creativity in midfield.
2 games, 4 points, 1 goal and 2 clean sheets. Not bad.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
Makes it difficult to warm to them really doesn't it?
What they've never understood is that every set of supporters in the league would have behaved exactly the same as we did that day. Years of having to put up with that Geordie nation/everyone's second club bollocks and we laughed when it went wrong for them. They were up their own arses then and they still haven't learned.
Precisely Dave. Everyone was so fed up of all that local hero/fog on the Tyne/the number 9 shirt/best supporters in the land shit that was pedalled every week that any group of fans would have reacted to their relegation in the same way. They are second only to Chelsea in reinventing their history and generating self deluding myths and like Liverpool fans seem to think there is something special about living in Newcastle or Liverpool that means that when you meet one of them, you are in the presence of a very unique human being who has been dealt a hand of which you must be very envious. It's easy to forget just how much the media fawned over them for about 5 years in the 90s and just how much those awful geordie nation stereotypes were rammed down your throat....
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Pretty sure there was a coachload of geordies down Witton Lane that day singing "You're just a town full of pakis"
Lovable scamps.
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Idiots. Fans of every other club were overjoyed when they went down, they just happened to have the misfortune to be at our place when it happened. If they'd been away at Fulham they'd have got the same reaction, only with 25,000 fewer fans taking the piss.
Maybe they really believe all this second-favourite-team stuff after all.
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I couldn't give a shiny shite about Newcastle or any other team (apart from a passing interest in Forest Green Rovers). The only team that matters is ours, and whilst the undoubted tightening up of the defence is welcomed, the inescapable fact is we didn't have a shot on target yesterday. Great that we have points on the board but midfield guile and artistry urgently needed now plus a back up striking option on loan if we are to avoid the agony of Lambert Part 1 & 2. 3 points a must next time out.
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Not sure even Benteke would have much joy without adequate support.
Oh believe me it would have been different. Gabby bless him is way past his use by date and was frankly embarrassing. His best role is on the bench making 10/20 minute impact entries from now on. Weimann may work in the centre but his attention span is poor to star wide and cause chaos in a defence by his movement.
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Weiman's brain and feet never seem coordinated to me. Consequently, everything seems rushed with him and he plays a bit headless chicken. One 15 yard pass to n'Zog sailed into the Trinity in the second half because he failed to steady himself.
As for Agbonlahor, I agree with most posters. He has failed to move his game on and therefore has become less and less effective. The last 3 years have seen a steady decline and it looks terminal. Teams are so comfortable playing against him and he obliges by showing a lack of movement, anticipation and intelligence.
I'd sooner Lambert showed the same patience with N'Zog as he has with these two and play him off Benteke when the time comes.
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Thought Gabby did fine myself. Starved of any service apart from one great cross that he really should have made more of (Cissokho)? But Colloccini did enough to put him off. Was always making himself available as an outlet and ran the channels well. That the ball very rarely found him is not a reason to beat him with the 'he's shit' stick that seems to be wielded but far too many. When Benteke is firt then I'd drop Weimann, Gabby wide and we'll score plenty.
I'm happy with his two games so far where we've created few good chances.
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Sanchez looked a class above the rest of our midfield. One of his first touches was a lovely pass to pick out a run into the box. Most everything he did looked simple and assured. he was clearly rusty but his class shone through imho.
On the negative side I couldn't help but compare him to Delph & Westwood and thinking to myself "You pair are nowhere near his ability".
Delph was the only attacking threat from midfield and made some positive runs second half. Sanchez had some good touches, especially his first, but to say he was a class apart is ott
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You are very observant Olaf. I have watched Andi Weimann and wondered how is play can be so enthusiastic and energetic yet produce such small benefits. It is his attention span. The play as is unfolds around him seems to catch him unawares. As for the game, as you surveyed the wreckage of the season past last May you would have asked yourself what can we do to avoid relegation in 2015? We needed to stiffen the defence and we needed to become less easy to beat. I am happy that those issues appear to be addressed (providing Ally's injury is not serious). We must now work on midfield creativity and if Cole can't be superglued back together yet again, find some guile before the window closes. The goals will come. Libor will score for fun.
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Sanchez will be fine and provide calm and stability however I once again failed to see any sense in Lambert's subs. Removing N'Zogbia and moving Westwood to the right? Richardson off and Bent on when really Gabby or Weimann should have gone however what's the point of Bent if you remove wide right and left players?
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At 0-0 at home with 15 mins to go , that's where Joe Cole comes in. Strange he didn't use him.
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I wonder if we'd settled for a draw hence the slightly negative subs. I had
Looking at the highlights I think we were a bit lucky to get a draw. Newcastle had three or four pretty presentable chances. We had n'zogbia's free kick. I can't remember another one
A good start to the season, especially if we best hull
But this squad of players is surely going to struggle in our September and October fixtures. We're not creating chances against mediocre sides.
We need more quality on the ball, in attacking areas.
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Just watched the game
Delphi,hutton,sisko were very good , defensively we looked great
No creativity again , not one shot on target at home is pretty poor , not as if Newcastle were that good. Andi made the wrong decision-making so many times and was generally poor and gabby ,how he gets in the team at the moment.
What was the point of bringing bent on ,when we hadn't creative nothing before for the front men , if their was front men , he should have gone with jack .
So at least defence looks like a proper defence and Sánchez will be a hit ,and four points I am happy with but we need some creativity in that team , as soon as Charlie went off we lost all chance of any .
Hutton mom ,just edging Delph.
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At 0-0 at home with 15 mins to go , that's where Joe Cole comes in. Strange he didn't use him.
I'm pretty sure he (or Grealish) would have come on, however Cissokho got injured so Baker had to come on and he was our final sub.
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At 0-0 at home with 15 mins to go , that's where Joe Cole comes in. Strange he didn't use him.
I'm pretty sure he (or Grealish) would have come on, however Cissokho got injured so Baker had to come on and he was our final sub.
Ah. That explains it.
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Benteke will struggle to score with the lack of quality around him, need to get two decent forwards and send Gabby and Weimann back to the reserves. They both need a reminder that they can be replaced.
Exactly
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I'm very much hoping we get at least one quality attacking player in before hull
But for the hull game we surely must start at least one of cole, grealish or whoever this new bod might be. Perhaps two of them
I think he might play Westwood sanchez and grealish though which means there'd be limited choice. Perhaps grealish for weimann.
The league cup game is a good opportunity to test cole and grealish. Surely both must start. Maybe bent too. Hull will be playing Europa league on Thursday so we have a massive opportunity to rack up three points.
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For me we are, at last, appearing to get our priorities right i.e. looking to be really hard to beat. I can't recall how many times we have conceded the first goal in home games over the past few years but it would be more often than not and with the limited amount of craft in our squad chasing games will always be difficult. Roy Keane has clearly helped from the point of view of getting some shape and discipline into the team, at one point yesterday he absolutely hammered Westwood for failing to cover a runner which is what he needs if he (Westwood) is to improve this part of his game.
I suppose the downside to the above is if there is no confidence in taking a risk to sacrifice the solidity to try to win games like yesterday. In my opinion putting Bent on yesterday was more of a statement that we were going for the win rather than a move to actually change anything, he is only effective with quality service which wasn't going to come from the team on the pitch, Grealish/Cole would, in my opinion, have shown more positive intent.
Overall quite happy with the first two outings of the season, I am certainly more confident that we won't get beaten by so many of the poorer sides this year, if we can add a few goals to our game there is no reason why we can't be comfortably mid-table.
Massive respect to Alan Hutton, I don't know him as a person but professionally to have come back from what he has been put through and to have shown the attitude (and performance) that he has in the last two games is outstanding, I doubt there are many more in the modern game who would have displayed this level of commitment, especially as he is playing for the same manager who wouldn't pick him previously. He has totally transformed my view of him, I am sure he will have some poor games but this sort of commitment will always be appreciated by me.
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
They mentioned our fans
keeping the ball, but their fans did it too. Weird how they didn't say anything about that ::)
And kept saying we got a good record at villa anyway
What they forget is so have every other team ;)
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It's odd they complained about us keeping the ball when we've spent so much of the last few year complaining because we can't keep it
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Just in case you think they might show a bit of appreciation.
http://www.nufc-forum.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=54545.0
They mentioned our fans keeping the ball, but their fans did it too. Weird how they didn't say anything about that ::)
Not exactly a hanging offence.
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Not sure even Benteke would have much joy without adequate support.
Oh believe me it would have been different. Gabby bless him is way past his use by date and was frankly embarrassing. His best role is on the bench making 10/20 minute impact entries from now on. Weimann may work in the centre but his attention span is poor to star wide and cause chaos in a defence by his movement.
Agree Benteke would have give Colicini far more problems.
Oh Michael Owen is a fucking dire co commentator as well as pundit.
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Right on Rob. I was very pleased with the initial deal available from BT Sport but as well as that self worshipping little weasel Owen they now have Savage up front and centre. I shall let the BT contract run out then go back to Sky.
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Pluses from yesterday were another clean sheet, good performances from Cissohko and Hutton and a very promising debut from Sanchez. The downside was that we didn't test their keeper that much but i'm happy enough with 4 points out of 6.
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Benteke makes all the difference, because us actually having an escape route from defence prevents them from getting everyone forward as much. That, and Benteke is better at football.
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Right on Rob. I was very pleased with the initial deal available from BT Sport but as well as that self worshipping little weasel Owen they now have Savage up front and centre. I shall let the BT contract run out then go back to Sky.
I refuse to have Sky due to my hatred of Murdoch and his poisonous influence of politics.
Have BT through internet offer. Missus sorted it so we get BT Soort for about a fiver a month.
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Has there been any news on Cissohko's injury? Looked a bad one when he went down but he managed to hobble off on his feet. Can't see him being back for next week though.
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They mentioned our fans keeping the ball, but their fans did it too. Weird how they didn't say anything about that ::)
They did it first, we just did it better. The timing of our return was spot on. At one point it seemed to be heading back prematurely, hats off to the chap at the front that rescued the situation.
Not that I in any way condone such behaviour.
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The case for not buying another forward is well argued, but if not we need to get in an attacking midfielder who can create and score a few, as yesterday our main threat came from Cizo and I never, ever believed I would type this Hutton. CNZ was also a limited threat and feel him being subbed was a backward step.
The thing that I want to get across without sounding all doom and gloom, as 4 points is at least 3 more than what I thought we would have now, is Lambert's still lack of ability to create a style of play, that at Villa Park relies on more than just the counter attack, this is his third season and I just cannot see results at Villa park getting any better while we are set up like this. Major concern that to me is still as far away today as it ever was last season.
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We look like we have the foundations in place for a decent side. Not having Benteke or Kozak available is limiting how we play though, I feel. Yesterday we had two forwards who both worked hard but they are not the type who are suited to holding the ball up to bring others in and allow us to build the play around them. Not much we can do about that other than wait.
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The other thing that really pissed me off yesterday was Brads distribution, the amount of time his hoofs went straight to a Newcastle player, I counted 8 then got bored as it was happening way way to often. If we were winning the second ball may have some reason to it, but it boils my piss.
Anyone got his pass completion rate for yesterday ?
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Are they still jabbering on about us relegating them? Deluded bunch of fuckwits. They really are painfully up their own arse at times.
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N'Zogbia looked unfit to me yesterday. He was huffing and puffing during the game and is clearly not match fit. There's still not enough creativity in the midfield, and knocking the ball into Gabby with his back to goal isn't gonna get us anywhere.
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We look like we have the foundations in place for a decent side. Not having Benteke or Kozak available is limiting how we play though, I feel. Yesterday we had two forwards who both worked hard but they are not the type who are suited to holding the ball up to bring others in and allow us to build the play around them. Not much we can do about that other than wait.
I don't think we're designed to build the play much at all, Chris. We attack quickly, recklessly, with maximum risk in the passes we play. What is good is that we've stopped boofing, and we try these moves on the grass rather than through the air, and if and when the moves break down we're quickly back in position defensively, waiting for a chance to break out.
We're a defensive side, with an emphasis on the counterattack, and there's no shame in that. We do it properly, with good defending, quick breaks, and not succumbing to the non-sequitur (practiced by Allardyce and others) that a defensive side must also be a long-ball side. It's a limiting style, but it's glass ceiling is somewhere well above 17th, and that's all we need from it this season.
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We look like we have the foundations in place for a decent side. Not having Benteke or Kozak available is limiting how we play though, I feel. Yesterday we had two forwards who both worked hard but they are not the type who are suited to holding the ball up to bring others in and allow us to build the play around them.
Couldn't agree more. The fact that the ball simply will not stick up front is hampering us. We can't keep hold of it long enough and, more tellingly, high enough to push opposition defences back towards their own box. All the midfield creativity in the world wouldn't change that.
Not much we can do about that other than wait.
Yep. Til we get one of the big fellas back, we go again. Not much point in fretting about it.
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A bit of creativity at home would be nice, Cole, Grealish, anyone!
On the plus side we don't look like we are going to concede everytime the opposition attacks.
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If we could just get our home form and more importantly our home results just a tad bit better, we would have no problems with any relegation threat
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A bit of creativity at home would be nice, Cole, Grealish, anyone!
On the plus side we don't look like we are going to concede everytime the opposition attacks.
I think he might have brought Cole or Grealish on yesterday had Cissohko not gone off.
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Mrs Exeter was born and brought up on the outskirts if Newcastle and her usual description if the North East is 'fantastic place, awful people'.
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I think he might have brought Cole or Grealish on yesterday had Cissohko not gone off.
A few poster have said this however Cissohko was subbed in the 83rd minute so I don't buy it. Not much point in those sort of subs with around 5 mins to go. Keene and Lambert had settled for a draw much earlier. I remember looking at Keane gesturing at Sanchez and Hutton to drop back when Bent was fouled by Williamson.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
Good post but why is Gabby undroppable? Is Lambert worried about upsetting those fans who see Gabby as a villa legend. Is it a reward for his years of service? That's all i can think of.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
Good post but why is Gabby undroppable? Is Lambert worried about upsetting those fans who see Gabby as a villa legend. Is it a reward for his years of service? That's all i can think of.
He's the one player we've got at the moment who can win a match in a couple of seconds, but that doesn't happen often enough.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
Good post but why is Gabby undroppable? Is Lambert worried about upsetting those fans who see Gabby as a villa legend. Is it a reward for his years of service? That's all i can think of.
Agbonlahor will never,I repeat never, be thought of as a 'Villa Legend'
Unless Villa Kicks thinks that way!
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The other thing that really pissed me off yesterday was Brads distribution, the amount of time his hoofs went straight to a Newcastle player,
That wasn't Brads fault. If you remember he mostly played out to Westwood or one of the fullbacks usually Hutton. From there the ball would be passed around a couple of times but with no forward movement returned to Brad and He would clear downfield usually under some pressure. That was not distribution and with no Kozak/Benteke a bit fruitless.
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Sanchez looked a class above the rest of our midfield. One of his first touches was a lovely pass to pick out a run into the box. Most everything he did looked simple and assured. he was clearly rusty but his class shone through imho.
On the negative side I couldn't help but compare him to Delph & Westwood and thinking to myself "You pair are nowhere near his ability".
Bit of a weird reaction. Sanchez looked good when he came on, but I thought Delph was the best player on the pitch.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
Good post but why is Gabby undroppable? Is Lambert worried about upsetting those fans who see Gabby as a villa legend. Is it a reward for his years of service? That's all i can think of.
Gabby and Andi both worked hard yesterday but produced next to nothing. In my view if everyone was fit we would probably not see both starting but as it stands there is little option. Bent is a bit of a luxury and we are not in a position to carry players who don't put in the work.
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Mrs Exeter was born and brought up on the outskirts if Newcastle and her usual description if the North East is 'fantastic place, awful people'.
Thank you for "rescuing" one at least.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
I think part of the problem is we might be a big club, but we haven't acted like one for a while now.
Plus, look at our abysmal home record for the last four years.
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The other thing that really pissed me off yesterday was Brads distribution, the amount of time his hoofs went straight to a Newcastle player,
That wasn't Brads fault. If you remember he mostly played out to Westwood or one of the fullbacks usually Hutton. From there the ball would be passed around a couple of times but with no forward movement returned to Brad and He would clear downfield usually under some pressure. That was not distribution and with no Kozak/Benteke a bit fruitless.
It is partly his fault. The best keepers are comfortable with the ball at their feet and can be used as an outlet when the opposition are pressing high up the pitch. Unfortunately Brad is a bit of a throwback in that he looks nervous with the ball on the ground so hoofing it is the safe option but without any height up front yesterday it invariably conceded possession. Newcastle clearly knew this so forced us back at every opportunity.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
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Don't often post, but already this season Gabby is really frustrating me. !!! IMO he would be better moving to pastures new as he offers us nothing apart from a bit of speed. His problem is he doesn't know how to use it effectively and never has done. His goal ratio is shocking and Wiemman has to suffer out wide to accommodate him. Four goals last season !!!! God he has more kids than he got goals last season. But I get the impression under Lambert he is the first name on the team sheet. We look a lot more solid this season but I cannot see us scoring many until Benteke is back, lets give Bent and Wiemman a go down the middle as a two now we have the rock sitting in front of the back four. Newcastle I thought were poor on the plus side we probably would have lost this game last season. We have the nucleus of a good side but whilst Gabby struts around doing nothing we are not going to score many goals.
Good post but why is Gabby undroppable? Is Lambert worried about upsetting those fans who see Gabby as a villa legend. Is it a reward for his years of service? That's all i can think of.
Gabby and Andi both worked hard yesterday but produced next to nothing. In my view if everyone was fit we would probably not see both starting but as it stands there is little option. Bent is a bit of a luxury and we are not in a position to carry players who don't put in the work.
Agreed, Chris. I was impressed with Gabby in the first 25 minutes yesterday, he linked up play extremely well, it surprises me the level of abuse he gets on here. We're disfunctional in attack because we have no plan. Until Sanchez came on, the midfield were lying so deep, Gabby had to come back to fill the huge gap. Andi playing out wide does nothing in terms of playing to his strengths other than putting in a shift.
What makes it even more frustrating is it's not like under MON where we had 8 in defence, our new look defence are confident and don't rely on the midfield to join them. We need to expand a little, fill the gap between defence and attack and as Delph showed in the second half, when the midfield support the attack we'll create more opportunities for the strikers.
Early days and obviously sorting out the defence after last season was top priority so I'm not panicing. I'll start panicing if we still don't have an attacking plan over the next few weeks. Newcastle were there for the taking and I'm sure we'll look back and see it as two points dropped.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
Most clubs record attendance in terms of tickets sold so season ticket holders would be counted in the attendance whether they were there or not. Game being on TV, people being on holiday and the lack of an optimistic feel after the last few years probably all contributed. Hopefully all 3 of those things will change.
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Decent performance especially first half and towards the end of the second. The defence looked solid but we look a bit toothless in attack unfortunately. I thought Delph was MOTM.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
Game on tv, expensive tickets with two more home games this week, bank holiday weekend and the biggest day of domestic cricket being on Birmingham, I'd say 30k was about par
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
Most clubs record attendance in terms of tickets sold so season ticket holders would be counted in the attendance whether they were there or not. Game being on TV, people being on holiday and the lack of an optimistic feel after the last few years probably all contributed. Hopefully all 3 of those things will change.
I think Chris's point about the season ticket holders was to illustrate that there are reasons why many people didn't go, not that it knocked five off the crowd.
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Mrs Exeter was born and brought up on the outskirts if Newcastle and her usual description if the North East is 'fantastic place, awful people'.
I went to a grouse shoot in Northumberland a couple of weeks ago. There were some posh Geordies there. As great an aberration of nature as the Scouse Tory (Esther McVey, Cilla Black)
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
we got 42k for Liverpool in the first home game last year, followed by 37k, 34k, 35k and 35k for the next 5 home games. The year before we had 36k to see Everton. Yesterday being on TV and an early kick off certainly were factors but to just get over 30k was poor for the opening game.
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Well, once again the defence,all of them, looked fit for purpose. That was a very good stop by Guzan towards the end. The midfield were ok but obviously not outstanding. Both Agbonlahor and Weimann were ineffective. Weimann in my opinion lacks the basic attributes to be a top class forward. He should be operating at Championship or even Division I level. Hopefully our two big men will be back in the next month.
We are going to need them.
Unfortunately Ron I agree regarding Weimann.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
What do you expect with the garbage that was served up last season at home. Season Tickets will be way down on last season. I thought that 30k is a decent turn out.
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we don't have intelligence in the forward line. We have buffers and puffers. Both Gabby and Weimann will run around a lot and I'm sure their Opta stats will show the cover a lot of the pitch during a game. But in both cases yesterday as an example I doubt it was either intelligent or efficient.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
What do you expect with the garbage that was served up last season at home. Season Tickets will be way down on last season. I thought that 30k is a decent turn out.
Not saying you're wrong, but in McLeish's first season we got more for the visit of Blackburn in our opening game. And things at that point didn't seem they could get any worse.
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we don't have intelligence in the forward line. We have buffers and puffers. Both Gabby and Weimann will run around a lot and I'm sure their Opta stats will show the cover a lot of the pitch during a game. But in both cases yesterday as an example I doubt it was either intelligent or efficient.
'Buffers and Puffers?'. Are you a secret twitcher TV?
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we don't have intelligence in the forward line. We have buffers and puffers. Both Gabby and Weimann will run around a lot and I'm sure their Opta stats will show the cover a lot of the pitch during a game. But in both cases yesterday as an example I doubt it was either intelligent or efficient.
'Buffers and Puffers?'. Are you a secret twitcher TV?
haha...I meant huffers.
You'd think I was an MP with that kind of comment!
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Regarding the attendance, I think there were a number of factors. Firstly the drop in season ticket sales. Also people on holiday, game on TV and the knock on effect from that of an early kick off. Plus with three home games in a week if you want to miss one to ease the financial burden then the one live on TV would be the obvious choice. But even allowing for all that, if we want to maintain or improve our average gates then we need to win more home games. A biggish signing might help but it still comes down to people being fed up of seeing us lose so often.
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season. For example I know 5 season ticket holders who couldn't make it yesterday due to holidays and the cricket. Add in it being on the box and two more games to come this week then there are plenty of mitigating circumstances.
Don't they still count season ticket holders as being there even if they aren't?
Ah, someone already said that. Sorry.
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We invariably get lowish crowds at the start of the season.
That's it- I need a bigger monitor - or new specs,I read that as "Jewish" :-[
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Very disappointing attendance yesterday. They were there in fierce I guess about 3000 so only 27000 home supporters bothered to turn up. Sad state of affairs from a very Big city for a big club.
What do you expect with the garbage that was served up last season at home. Season Tickets will be way down on last season. I thought that 30k is a decent turn out.
I expect more. More from the city the size of ours and more from so called Villa fans that I know who never turn up for home games. Newcastle were in a live TV game last week but had about 50K.
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I found last seasons attendances particularly towards the end of the season to be amazing. When you consider what was happening and he three years prior to that the loyalty of the fans was superb. It is why it is all the more surprising that the opening game against decent opponents with a solid following was well below what you might expect. I honestly thought it would be 35-36k. Hopefully we'll get a win next weekend and things start to pick up after the break.
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I don't buy the on holiday line, are Villa fans the only ones who go on holiday this time of year as most other clubs didn't seem to lose thousands off their attendances? Cost me £13.80 to be sat in the Lower Holte so cost isn't always a factor either.
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Good to see we're looking solid at the back. We're lacking creativity which needs to be addressed but we know that. Does anyone know how serious Aly's injury is?
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Good to see we're looking solid at the back. We're lacking creativity which needs to be addressed but we know that. Does anyone know how serious Aly's injury is?
It would be just our luck having sent Bennett and Luna on loan and for us to finally look like we have a decent LB for him to be crocked.
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Good to see we're looking solid at the back. We're lacking creativity which needs to be addressed but we know that. Does anyone know how serious Aly's injury is?
it wasn't mentioned at all in any post match report that I read so maybe it is just minor. The only comment Lambert made was how good he was so if it was an issue you'd think it might have been brought up. Hopefully it's nothing too serious and he'll be at it again next week.
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Cheers, hopefully so.
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I wonder who will be at LB against Orient as i'd assume even if very minor we won't risk Aly for that game.
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Probably Baker, which even against Orient is a worry.
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Probably Baker, which even against Orient is a worry.
Or Evil Edna maybe.
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Richardson would be the next option in the league and stick in Sanchez next to Westwood and Delph.
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I don't buy the on holiday line, are Villa fans the only ones who go on holiday this time of year as most other clubs didn't seem to lose thousands off their attendances? Cost me £13.80 to be sat in the Lower Holte so cost isn't always a factor either.
Perhaps it's a Birmingham thing for late August holidays? As I said earlier, I know 3 who normally go who were away and 1 who was at the cricket.
Of course it could also be an indication that crowds are going to be down this year, I just think there are enough mitigating factors that make it a bit early to draw any firm conclusions.
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I think the last 3 or 4 years has really caught up wit the home fanbase . Let's face it, it really has been like a prison sentence . I think a fair few have unshackled themselves and are just enjoying life / the summer etc instead of enduring time at B6. It's up to the club to entice them back and it ain't cheap seats only that will do that.
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Regarding the attendance, I think there were a number of factors. Firstly the drop in season ticket sales. Also people on holiday, game on TV and the knock on effect from that of an early kick off. Plus with three home games in a week if you want to miss one to ease the financial burden then the one live on TV would be the obvious choice. But even allowing for all that, if we want to maintain or improve our average gates then we need to win more home games. A biggish signing might help but it still comes down to people being fed up of seeing us lose so often.
Losing and playing shite. ONeills home record wasnt always great but always thought something could or would happen..
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I don't buy the on holiday line, are Villa fans the only ones who go on holiday this time of year as most other clubs didn't seem to lose thousands off their attendances? Cost me £13.80 to be sat in the Lower Holte so cost isn't always a factor either.
Perhaps it's a Birmingham thing for late August holidays? As I said earlier, I know 3 who normally go who were away and 1 who was at the cricket.
Of course it could also be an indication that crowds are going to be down this year, I just think there are enough mitigating factors that make it a bit early too draw any firm conclusions.
Small heath, Albion and so on don't lose thousands (cue obvious jokes) to people on holiday this time of year.
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As Damo said, if we want to improve attendances, we are going to have to stop being so shit at home and start to win more games.
We defended well yesterday but even there there was nothing to excite people - not a single shot on target. That needs to improve, hugely.
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That's the thing. Who'd bet against another 0-0 v Hull ?
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Regarding the attendance, I think there were a number of factors. Firstly the drop in season ticket sales. Also people on holiday, game on TV and the knock on effect from that of an early kick off. Plus with three home games in a week if you want to miss one to ease the financial burden then the one live on TV would be the obvious choice. But even allowing for all that, if we want to maintain or improve our average gates then we need to win more home games. A biggish signing might help but it still comes down to people being fed up of seeing us lose so often.
Losing and playing shite. ONeills home record wasnt always great but always thought something could or would happen..
In the MON years we were also showing ambition. These days our ambition seems to extend no further than avoiding relegation. Bar a couple of clubs we are the league's lowest spenders, this after three execrable seasons in which we were particularly poor at home.
It is no wonder crowds will be down. They held up well last year but let's not forget, there was still a fair amount of optimism after the first Lambert year, which will have helped maintain season ticket sales.
This summer there has been pretty much zero optimism and season ticket sales will have taken a hit.
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That's the thing. Who'd bet against another 0-0 v Hull ?
I will. How much?
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That's the thing. Who'd bet against another 0-0 v Hull ?
I will. How much?
The bookies are offering me 8/1. Can you better that ?
I'd also bet on a sub 30k attendance .
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Not being a Bookie I will offer you a straight £10 bet that it won't be 0-0 and another tenner that it will be over 30K?
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While this manager is in charge i think the attendances will continue to drop. Instead of trying to win ,he is more worried about not losing. Have my ticket for Wednesdays match but i fear another Bradford ,Sheff Utd result .
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Not being a Bookie I will offer you a straight £10 bet that it won't be 0-0 and another tenner that it will be over 30K?
So I can bet you a £10 to win a £10 or I can put that bet with a bookie who will pay me £90 when it ends 0-0. Erm let me think about that .
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
Which has been pretty much the case since 1897.
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I don't buy the on holiday line, are Villa fans the only ones who go on holiday this time of year as most other clubs didn't seem to lose thousands off their attendances? Cost me £13.80 to be sat in the Lower Holte so cost isn't always a factor either.
Perhaps it's a Birmingham thing for late August holidays? As I said earlier, I know 3 who normally go who were away and 1 who was at the cricket.
Of course it could also be an indication that crowds are going to be down this year, I just think there are enough mitigating factors that make it a bit early too draw any firm conclusions.
Small heath, Albion and so on don't lose thousands (cue obvious jokes) to people on holiday this time of year.
I have no idea if they do or don't but we do, in fact I have seen this same debate a number of times over the years on here.
As I said it might be a sign of something but one game on a Bank Holiday weekend with 2 further games to come in the next 7 days is too soon to be drawing conclusions, in my view.
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Not being a Bookie I will offer you a straight £10 bet that it won't be 0-0 and another tenner that it will be over 30K?
So I can bet you a £10 to win a £10 or I can put that bet with a bookie who will pay me £90 when it ends 0-0. Erm let me think about that .
Why not do both if you are so confident?
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It is quite simple really, give us a team that is competitive and entertaining and winning games at home regularly and crowds will come back. Well to our normal 'high end' level - 36-40,000.
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Looking it up like I did is an easy way to see that they don't.
We do have an anomaly where our attendances often improve through a season regardless of how good or shit we are, but I don't accept our fans on holiday as a reason why when no other club in the region or country seems to have thousands on holiday. Which is my point as I can't see why only Villa fans are away.
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43k at Sunderland today
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Not being a Bookie I will offer you a straight £10 bet that it won't be 0-0 and another tenner that it will be over 30K?
So I can bet you a £10 to win a £10 or I can put that bet with a bookie who will pay me £90 when it ends 0-0. Erm let me think about that .
Why not do both if you are so confident?
Conversely if Aftab is so confident he could offer bookies odds as it is free money. Works both ways.
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I am pretty sure Sunderland give away thousands of tickets each week to local schools etc.
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Conversely if Aftab is so confident he could offer bookies odds as it is free money. Works both ways.
I didn't get mediocrely wealthy by offering those sorts of odds to any Tom, Dick or Harjinder!
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Conversely if Aftab is so confident he could offer bookies odds as it is free money. Works both ways.
I didn't get mediocrely wealthy by offering those sorts of odds to any Tom, Dick or Harjinder!
Who gets the vig?
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Vig is added to my overdraft!
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
It isn't all about full houses, during that period we would get 40k plus against the likes of West Ham or Newcastle. In fact, in 2008/9 we got a full house against Newcastle.
Yesterday we just scraped 30,000. That's an awful crowd, even compared to attendances last season, and let's not forget, Newcastle brought 3,000 fans with them, a lot of clubs will not.
I think this season we'll have less than 30k for a number of matches. I don't blame anyone for not bothering these days. Why should the fans bother when the owner quite clearly doesn't give much of a shit, and clearly hasn't for two or three years now?
People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
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Not being a Bookie I will offer you a straight £10 bet that it won't be 0-0 and another tenner that it will be over 30K?
So I can bet you a £10 to win a £10 or I can put that bet with a bookie who will pay me £90 when it ends 0-0. Erm let me think about that .
Why not do both if you are so confident?
No problem if the odds are ok but it's not evens . I will accept 6's possibly 5's.
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
It isn't all about full houses, during that period we would get 40k plus against the likes of West Ham or Newcastle. In fact, in 2008/9 we got a full house against Newcastle.
Yesterday we just scraped 30,000. That's an awful crowd, even compared to attendances last season, and let's not forget, Newcastle brought 3,000 fans with them, a lot of clubs will not.
I think this season we'll have less than 30k for a number of matches. I don't blame anyone for not bothering these days. Why should the fans bother when the owner quite clearly doesn't give much of a shit, and clearly hasn't for two or three years now?
People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Owners, managers, players come and go. It's our club and we should support it. Newcastle have had worse than us in terms of success, owners, managers etc across their history yet their fans still show up in huge numbers. I can understand people being fed up but they would have been fed up last season when things were properly in the toilet and then never. It's deeper than it just being the owner. I wonder if people have just lost interest.
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The statistics do not lie. In the last three years, this is our home record.
Played 57
Won 15
Drew 15
Lost 27
Scored 65
Conceded 82
Points available: 171.
Points won: 60.
You don't have to be wearing a deerstalker hat and have a friend called Watson to figure out why crowds are taking a hit, given that.
Is there another club which has been in the top flight all that time and has a worse home record than that? I doubt it.
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
It isn't all about full houses, during that period we would get 40k plus against the likes of West Ham or Newcastle. In fact, in 2008/9 we got a full house against Newcastle.
Yesterday we just scraped 30,000. That's an awful crowd, even compared to attendances last season, and let's not forget, Newcastle brought 3,000 fans with them, a lot of clubs will not.
I think this season we'll have less than 30k for a number of matches. I don't blame anyone for not bothering these days. Why should the fans bother when the owner quite clearly doesn't give much of a shit, and clearly hasn't for two or three years now?
People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Owners, managers, players come and go. It's our club and we should support it. Newcastle have had worse than us in terms of success, owners, managers etc across their history yet their fans still show up in huge numbers. I can understand people being fed up but they would have been fed up last season when things were properly in the toilet and then never. It's deeper than it just being the owner. I wonder if people have just lost interest.
Newcastle are an oddity. Although they haven't had the sort of record we have over the last three years.
It isn't just the owner, and I wouldn't suggest it is, but if people are losing interest, is anyone surprised, given the fact the owner has also lost it?
We've spent, what, 6.5m or so this window. We've signed Senderos and Cole on frees, Richardson on a nominal fee, Sanchez for 4.5 or so and Cissokho for 2 ish.
Regardless of how they've done over an extremely small sample of two matches, how many of us, back in May when the last season ended, would have thought that that would be enough?
And what's more, how many of us really think the club is ambitious? Do any of us think the home record this season is going to be markedly different this season?
There isn't even any talk of ambition from the top any more, let alone evidence of it. Who can blame people for not bothering?
We are slightly lifted at the moment as we've paid money for a couple of players, but it looks suspiciously like the ambition of the club consists of staying up and not a lot more than that.
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Does this make 25% of our support glory-hunters?
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are you suggesting there is a direct correlation between money spent and ambition? Because I'm not sure any club outside the top 5 to 6 have ambitions much beyond staying in the PL irrespective of what they spend or what they might say. In fact it would be interesting to know what say Newcastle or Sunderland as examples consider their goals and ambitions to be. I've never heard their boards publicly state their ambitions. Is there are charter or something on their OS that tells fans what their ambition is going into a season? And even those clubs that do get to 6th or 7th really don't want to be there because it is no man's land and what they are left with is a good season, a good position and the prospect of the Europa League the year after that they try and eliminate themselves from as soon as possible by playing weakened line ups. Does any club publicly state they want to finish 6th or 7th?
It's plain for all to see that we have a terrible home record over the past few seasons and that our net spend has not been what any of us had hoped, but does that translate to our ambition relative to those around us being any different? I think more depressingly it is a statement on football as it is today at this level than about ambition, which for me is the same for all clubs outside the obvious few.
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are you suggesting there is a direct correlation between money spent and ambition? Because I'm not sure any club outside the top 5 to 6 have ambitions much beyond staying in the PL irrespective of what they spend or what they might say. In fact it would be interesting to know what say Newcastle or Sunderland as examples consider their goals and ambitions to be. I've never heard their boards publicly state their ambitions. Is there are charter or something on their OS that tells fans what their ambition is going into a season? And even those clubs that do get to 6th or 7th really don't want to be there because it is no man's land and what they are left with is a good season, a good position and the prospect of the Europa League the year after that they try and eliminate themselves from as soon as possible by playing weakened line ups. Does any club publicly state they want to finish 6th or 7th?
It's plain for all to see that we have a terrible home record over the past few seasons and that our net spend has not been what any of us had hoped, but does that translate to our ambition relative to those around us being any different? I think more depressingly it is a statement on football as it is today at this level than about ambition, which for me is the same for all clubs outside the obvious few.
if it is a statement about football in general, how come everyone else didn't record an abysmal crowd yesterday?
What tells me there isn't any ambition is the fact that for three years we've signed almost exclusively cheap, young players, who have proved to be not up for it, and are currently in another summer of not spending much money (the constant refrain 'it's about the wage bill' is never far away).
I appreciate you like to put a glossy sheen on things, but I fail to see how anyone can think we have much in the way of ambition any more. The club have stopped talking about it, and have stopped acting like we have any.
Of course there is a link between spending an ambition - it is certainly very hard to suggest you are ambitious when you don't spend money. I don't care what the club does or does not say, the proof of the pudding is how we act, and our actions of the last three years have been of significant financial cut backs and scrimping.
Also, for us, in the background, the owner has said he's lost interest and wants to sell.
I don't think it can be any clearer. That's a bit part of the reason we just scraped 30k in our first home game of the season against a club who brought 3k with them yesterday.
Why do you think we've spent 6-7m this summer, despite the huge amount of telly money incoming? Why do you think we've signed a 33 year old Joe Cole? What do you think that says about where we're aiming in the wider scheme of things?
For three years, it has been about our chairman slowly backing his way out of the door. I understand the reasons why he has done / is doing it, but the flip side of that is that I am not going to pretend it isn't happening. It quite clearly is.
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Does this make 25% of our support glory-hunters?
Given the near total lack of glory, "adequacy seekers" would seem a better term.
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Does this make 25% of our support glory-hunters?
No, it makes 75% are ambulance chasers.
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Does this make 25% of our support glory-hunters?
Aren't we all glory-hunters, just that 20-odd thousand of us have more blind faith and eternal optimism than the other (arguably more sensible) 10,000?
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
Yes.
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
Yes.
I think the signings have been very good and we're trying to sell the club so we can move onwards towards success. We've started the season well so I don't quite get why people think everything's gloomy and there's no hope.
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
I don't think our ambition is any more or less than the clubs we are competing with. That's my point to paulie. I appreciate that might appear a glossy assessment to him but I think it's the reality of the situation we are in irrespective of how much we've spent. Off course his version of reality is different to mine which is fine.
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
I don't think our ambition is any more or less than the clubs we are competing with. That's my point to paulie. I appreciate that might appear a glossy assessment to him but I think it's the reality of the situation we are in irrespective of how much we've spent. Off course his version of reality is different to mine which is fine.
And doesn't the clubs we're currently "competing with" sort of say something about our ambition?
I am willing to be persuaded, though, so go on, tell me how we're being ambitious?
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
I don't think our ambition is any more or less than the clubs we are competing with. That's my point to paulie. I appreciate that might appear a glossy assessment to him but I think it's the reality of the situation we are in irrespective of how much we've spent. Off course his version of reality is different to mine which is fine.
And doesn't the clubs we're currently "competing with" sort of say something about our ambition?
I am willing to be persuaded, though, so go on, tell me how we're being ambitious?
Finally signing experienced players and a holding midfielder. We have a better squad then 50% of the league at least, and we're in the process of trying to sell the club for the better. That's hardly going backwards.
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
I don't think our ambition is any more or less than the clubs we are competing with. That's my point to paulie. I appreciate that might appear a glossy assessment to him but I think it's the reality of the situation we are in irrespective of how much we've spent. Off course his version of reality is different to mine which is fine.
And doesn't the clubs we're currently "competing with" sort of say something about our ambition?
I am willing to be persuaded, though, so go on, tell me how we're being ambitious?
Finally signing experienced players and a holding midfielder. We have a better squad then 50% of the league at least, and we're in the process of trying to sell the club for the better. That's hardly going backwards.
The last three years don't suggest we have a better squad than 50% of the league.
I also don't really see trying to sell the club as a sign of ambition - it's a sign of wanting to get out, which is half the problem.
Also, "signing a DM"? That's not really a shining example of ambition. I'd also suggest "not going backwards" is not really a great sign of ambition. If we went any further backwards, we'd be relegated.
There's nothing about the way we act that suggests we're currently aiming at much above not getting relegated before Randy can sell. I understand why that is it, but what I find it hard to accept is that our aims extend much beyond that.
Of course the manager wants to improve the squad. That goes without saying. But that's not the same thing as the club showing ambition - and intent - to improve markedly.
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We're going to be competing with the clubs from 8th place down this season. Same as we have for the vast majority of our history.
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It says something about the state of football today and the barriers that have been created to stop us and clubs like us from competing at the top end of the table. What would it take to compete with the clubs you want to from where we are right now? Because short a stupidly rich owner coming in and even then finding FFP in his way it's not going to happen. We are currently competing against all of the clubs other than those that most people would consider title contenders or CL position chasers. Sorry to say but any more than that is not going to happen overnight and given where we've been the last couple of years I'd take not fighting relegation for one year as a starting point. The squad we have right now and with a couple more players coming in and those returning should see us comfortably to that position. We don't need to spend 30m to do that.
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It says something about the state of football today and the barriers that have been created to stop us and clubs like us from competing at the top end of the table. What would it take to compete with the clubs you want to from where we are right now? Because short a stupidly rich owner coming in and even then finding FFP in his way it's not going to happen. We are currently competing against all of the clubs other than those that most people would consider title contenders or CL position chasers. It's not going to happen overnight and given where we've been the last couple of years I'd take not fighting relegation for one year as a starting point. The squad we have right now and with a couple more players coming in and those returning should see us comfortably to that position. We don't need to spend 30m to do that.
The reason we are not competing at the top of the table, or even in the top half, is nothing whatsoever to do with barriers created by FFP, it is to do with the financial and mental retreat of our owner from our club.
It doesn't take stupid riches to spend more than 7m or so improving what was already a pathetic squad.
I'll hail that ambition you mention - i.e. the extra players we need - when I actually see it happen, because thus far, there hasn't been much demonstration of intent.
Like I said, we want to not get relegated, and for someone to buy us in the meantime. I understand that, I understand why Randy sees it that way, and I understand why he is making it that way, but I am not going to start to pretend we're just some equal partner in a bunch of 12-14 sides with nothing much to play for.
The evidence of the last three years, and the evidence of our summer business thus far suggests we're really about not going down, something we've narrowly avoided in recent times, and I have seen nothing whatsoever to suggest things have changed much in the meantime.
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People aren't stupid. They can sniff out a lack of ambition a mile off.
Am I the only one who things that there's plenty of ambition about the club at the moment?
I don't think our ambition is any more or less than the clubs we are competing with. That's my point to paulie. I appreciate that might appear a glossy assessment to him but I think it's the reality of the situation we are in irrespective of how much we've spent. Off course his version of reality is different to mine which is fine.
And doesn't the clubs we're currently "competing with" sort of say something about our ambition?
I am willing to be persuaded, though, so go on, tell me how we're being ambitious?
Finally signing experienced players and a holding midfielder. We have a better squad then 50% of the league at least, and we're in the process of trying to sell the club for the better. That's hardly going backwards.
The last three years don't suggest we have a better squad than 50% of the league.
I also don't really see trying to sell the club as a sign of ambition - it's a sign of wanting to get out, which is half the problem.
Also, "signing a DM"? That's not really a shining example of ambition. I'd also suggest "not going backwards" is not really a great sign of ambition. If we went any further backwards, we'd be relegated.
There's nothing about the way we act that suggests we're currently aiming at much above not getting relegated before Randy can sell. I understand why that is it, but what I find it hard to accept is that our aims extend much beyond that.
Of course the manager wants to improve the squad. That goes without saying. But that's not the same thing as the club showing ambition - and intent - to improve markedly.
- I'm not talking about the last three years. I'm talking about this one.
- I think Sanchez is a top player, but it's too early to tell.
- Disagree, out ambition is far above avoiding relegation.
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Where is the evidence to suggest we're aiming far above avoiding relegation? I'm willing to listen and be convinced. I just can't see any.
I agree, Sanchez might turn out to be brilliant, but I really don't see how signing one player for 4m is a sign of significant ambition.
I keep saying this, but don't get me wrong, I entirely understand that Randy has lost interest - he has as good as told us he has, he's spoken, has said he wants out, it could not get any clearer than that. I totally get it. I totally get that he's clearly going to spend as little time and money as he can before selling us.
I understand that as well.
I totally get the concept of us being effectively in deep freeze until he moves us on. All of that makes sense. So does the evidence of the last three years. All of that, I get it. I understand it. I don't like it, but i see why he is doing it.
I just haven't seen anything whatsoever to suggest that, despite all the above, we really have any ambition beyond the bare minimum - survival.
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I'm happy with a point and another clean sheet I thought the defence played well again we will be better when Benteke and Kozak come back.
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Put me with Paulie on this one. I will say though that in the past couple of weeks Lerner has started to do the right thing.
While I am happy enough with the points, so far we have setup this season to be difficult to beat and difficult to watch.
Yeah its a step up over last seasons flimsy defense but still. I can't help but feel a pang of envy when I see other teams like Sunderland & Leicester play better than us.
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Put me with Paulie on this one. I will say though that in the past couple of weeks Lerner has started to do the right thing.
While I am happy enough with the points, so far we have setup this season to be difficult to beat and difficult to watch.
Yeah its a step up over last seasons flimsy defense but still. I can't help but feel a pang of envy when I see other teams like Sunderland & Leicester play better than us.
Don't get me wrong, I understand where we are. I am hugely encouraged by two games of defending pretty well versus the shocking stuff of last year. In terms of the day to day of the club, that can only be good.
The bigger picture, though, needs to change as soon as possible, and that starts from the top.
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The problem lies here: our new target is to avoid relegation without doing so well that we get into Europa league and also "do a Southampton " do so well you raise eyebrows and lose all your best players. With that In mind 8th or 9th is euphoria for us now.
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Where is the evidence to suggest we're aiming far above avoiding relegation? I'm willing to listen and be convinced. I just can't see any.
I agree, Sanchez might turn out to be brilliant, but I really don't see how signing one player for 4m is a sign of significant ambition.
I keep saying this, but don't get me wrong, I entirely understand that Randy has lost interest - he has as good as told us he has, he's spoken, has said he wants out, it could not get any clearer than that. I totally get it. I totally get that he's clearly going to spend as little time and money as he can before selling us.
I understand that as well.
I totally get the concept of us being effectively in deep freeze until he moves us on. All of that makes sense. So does the evidence of the last three years. All of that, I get it. I understand it. I don't like it, but i see why he is doing it.
I just haven't seen anything whatsoever to suggest that, despite all the above, we really have any ambition beyond the bare minimum - survival.
Sorry for my short replies, trying to juggle two things at once but I'm reading all your points!
Randy's spent a fair chunk of money in the summer, so I'd hardly call us in a deep freeze, to me that would mean no players at all. Yes, one signing for 4 million is not ambitious, but we're replacing or signing players in all the positions we're weak or simply understaffed in with either highly rated or proven players - so I don't see how they can't be seen as positive.
Ultimately, what more would it take for you to consider us having 'ambition'?
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Yes it's better so far than the corresponding games last season. Yes, it looks like there has been a shift in the policies of bringing a certain type of player into the club. But the question is, the way we were set up on saturday was clearly designed not to lose and to try and nick a goal. is that a recognition of us just trying to survive or is Lambert expecting the team to evolve when all players are back and fit?
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is Lambert expecting the team to evolve when all players are back and fit?
This is personally what I'm thinking. With Benteke back scoring goals and holding the ball up, and Joe Cole coming in to help play football in the opposition half, I think the team's on to evolve and get better as we get back to full strength. I do think on Saturday we moved the ball around far better than last season without always opting for the long ball which is promising.
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Well we did when Sanchez came on because it allowed Delph to drive forward more. Still, it needs someone else to pick that pass as that's not Delph.
i can see where paulie is coming from but as has been said we are in a mix of clubs all wanting to ensure survival first. Whether that's your first instinct or whether finishing mid-table is is a result of recent history. After the last 3 or 4 seasons I think that it's natural for the club to be thinking of safety first which on the outset questions ambition. But, as I said, it's a natural place for us to be. Lambert free from Karsa and Culverhouse may produce a team under Keane with more solidity that allows his counter-attacking team to produce more of what we saw finishing the season 2 years ago and who we saw at Chelsea and Arsenal at the start of last season. When they looked battle-hardened and dangerous going forward.
The ambition is there I think. Hopefully the right backroom staff will bring it out more.
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Where is the evidence to suggest we're aiming far above avoiding relegation? I'm willing to listen and be convinced. I just can't see any.
I agree, Sanchez might turn out to be brilliant, but I really don't see how signing one player for 4m is a sign of significant ambition.
I keep saying this, but don't get me wrong, I entirely understand that Randy has lost interest - he has as good as told us he has, he's spoken, has said he wants out, it could not get any clearer than that. I totally get it. I totally get that he's clearly going to spend as little time and money as he can before selling us.
I understand that as well.
I totally get the concept of us being effectively in deep freeze until he moves us on. All of that makes sense. So does the evidence of the last three years. All of that, I get it. I understand it. I don't like it, but i see why he is doing it.
I just haven't seen anything whatsoever to suggest that, despite all the above, we really have any ambition beyond the bare minimum - survival.
and that's my question. Beyond staying in this league what is the ambition of 13-14 clubs? It's the same as ours. That doesn't make it good or right. But it would take monstrous investment for all of those clubs and us to bridge the gap that now exists. What would constitute a statement of ambition for you? Genuine question. I know I'd like us to compete for a CL spot but it's not going to happen even if we went out and broke the bank for a couple of players. And if you want proof of that just look at what Man U are trying to do and two games in you can already see that it will take a lot more than just breaking transfer records to do it.
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Not sure even Benteke would have much joy without adequate support.
Do you not think he would enjoy the crosses that came in from Cissokho?
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Err BS. Everton are up for sale yet spent £26m on Lukaka plus whatever Barry is costing over 3 years - £20m ?
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
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Err BS. Everton are up for sale yet spent £26m on Lukaka plus whatever Barry is costing over 3 years - £20m ?
are they? I'm sure we have had this discussion but when did the owner publicly state they are for sale and he is actively seeking a buyer?
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
yep, because it's accurate
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For the forgetful -
Everton chairman Robert Elstone insists finding the right buyer for the club is paramount but stressed it will not fail to be sold because it is too expensive.
Elstone said "genuine conversations" are taking place regarding ownership and future investment but there was a responsibility to select the "right buyer with the right intentions".
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
yep, because it's accurate
No, I agree. It was more a comment on the fact that we've had the Everton discussion about a million times now on this forum.
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and that's my question. Beyond staying in this league what is the ambition of 13-14 clubs? It's the same as ours. That doesn't make it good or right. But it would take monstrous investment for all of those clubs and us to bridge the gap that now exists. What would constitute a statement of ambition for you? Genuine question. I know I'd like us to compete for a CL spot but it's not going to happen even if we went out and broke the bank for a couple of players. And if you want proof of that just look at what Man U are trying to do and two games in you can already see that it will take a lot more than just breaking transfer records to do it.
A couple of 10million plus signings would sure help.
However failing that, I agree there are 13 relegation battlers these days, however some are trying to play good football, others are ugly to watch.
I want us to play good football ("we are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball") and be comfortable mid table. I don't think thats asking the world. Right now we feel like one of those clubs which when playing a similar one you immediately change channel.
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From 2013
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1573294-everton-fc-4-biggest-reasons-the-club-hasnt-been-bought-yet
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This is where we should have been two years ago.
Or even 3.5 years ago
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Sky have got what they wanted - a core of four big contenders whose games they can promote to a casual audience. The rest are just the opposition. That's us I'm afraid.
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and that's my question. Beyond staying in this league what is the ambition of 13-14 clubs? It's the same as ours. That doesn't make it good or right. But it would take monstrous investment for all of those clubs and us to bridge the gap that now exists. What would constitute a statement of ambition for you? Genuine question. I know I'd like us to compete for a CL spot but it's not going to happen even if we went out and broke the bank for a couple of players. And if you want proof of that just look at what Man U are trying to do and two games in you can already see that it will take a lot more than just breaking transfer records to do it.
A couple of 10million plus signings would sure help.
However failing that, I agree there are 13 relegation battlers these days, however some are trying to play good football, others are ugly to watch.
I want us to play good football ("we are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball") and be comfortable mid table. I don't think thats asking the world. Right now we feel like one of those clubs which when playing a similar one you immediately change channel.
Exactly. When McDoom was recruited it sent out a terrible message.
We have become Small Time and the Style of Football is irrelevant.
Jeeps we never had to be sanctimonious like the Bitters or Spuds about playing great style of football. We just played mostly decent stuff neutrals like to watch interspersed with some great stuff every few years.
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
Everton aren't really up for sale!
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
Everton aren't really up for sale!
House! What do I win?
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If Everton aren't for sale neither are we.
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The game was crying out for Jack or Joe. Hopefully they become prominent in the team soon or we sign someone of their talent but halfway between both in age.
I'm sure one of them would've come on but we lost Cissokho so Baker had to be used.
Decent point and great to start with 2 clean sheets. Just a lack of creativity though and I can't see it being rectified on the budget Lambert has so hopefully Benteke can return soon and give us some spark upfront.
Still pretty happy with 4 point, hopefully we can beat Hull and then it will be an excellent start to the season.
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
Everton aren't really up for sale!
House! What do I win?
A weekend in Kryptonopolis for you and a mate. Send me a cheque for £100 to cover the expenses of providing flight and hotel details.
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
Everton aren't really up for sale!
House! What do I win?
Everton (If they were up for sale )
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<cue somebody to post the usual 'Everton aren't really for sale' comment here>
Everton aren't really up for sale!
House! What do I win?
A weekend in Kryptonopolis for you and a mate. Send me a cheque for £100 to cover the expenses of providing flight and hotel details.
I'm a lawyer. I haven't got any mates.
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Sky have got what they wanted - a core of four big contenders whose games they can promote to a casual audience. The rest are just the opposition. That's us I'm afraid.
Maybe but we can still try and play football not the last 4 years of mostly crap.
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Sky have got what they wanted - a core of four big contenders whose games they can promote to a casual audience. The rest are just the opposition. That's us I'm afraid.
Maybe but we can still try and play football not the last 4 years of mostly crap.
I should hope so. But everyone from about eighth downward is so desperate not to lose, nobody wants to be the suckers who delight the neutrals by playing brave, entertaining football and getting relegated.
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I'm a lawyer. I haven't got any mates.
I should have known.
Mates are available at the resort for an additional charge. Your credit card entry will state "Everton not for sale conference"
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I'd want to see a clear statement from the club as to whether they agree Everton are for sale or not.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
Sign Shane Long for £12m.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
Do you believe our business so far this summer constitutes ambition?
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
Do you believe our business so far this summer constitutes ambition?
Yes, as I said a few pages back.
Finally signing experienced players and a holding midfielder. We have a better squad then 50% of the league at least, and we're in the process of trying to sell the club for the better. That's hardly going backwards.
What would you rather we did outside of spend 100's of millions? What is this 'ambition'?
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
For us to improve like we seem to be trying to do?
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
When we averaged 40,000 we sold out 11 times.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
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There is a fair bit of scope between £6 million total outlay and 100's of millions to spend and still be considered ambitious, rather than reckless.
Based on our business of the past few years, and with the new TV deal, I would have said a spend of £25-30 million wouldn't have been beyond us. Spend wisely, that is the sort of sum that could put us back in contention for European qualification. Not guarantee it, but give us the possibility.
Spending what we have, and on who we have, indicates we're happy to tough it out again this season and remain in the league. That seems to be the goal, and for a club of our pedigree, it is about as far removed from ambition as you can get.
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It's not just transfer fees though is it. We've added a bunch of players to the wage bill and hardly shifted anyone of note this summer.
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Spending what we have, and on who we have, indicates we're happy to tough it out again this season and remain in the league. That seems to be the goal, and for a club of our pedigree, it is about as far removed from ambition as you can get.
I really disagree. From my perspective we've really improved the squad and I think the ambition from the club is top 10 from what we've seen so far.
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I think there's a difference between our ambitions for this season and what our ambitions have become. I'd say our ambitions for this season would be to never again have a season like the previous three, consolidate and finish comfortably in mid table, maybe get a cup win. I'm not upset about having those ambitions. I am upset as to what our ambitions have become. That is where the ambitions I just stated would be considered a success.
I hope that as we now go forward, with or without Lerner, that our ambitions slowly get back to where they were in 2009 and climb from there.
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I think there's a difference between our ambitions for this season and what our ambitions have become. I'd say our ambitions for this season would be to never again have a season like the previous three, consolidate and finish comfortably in mid table, maybe get a cup win. I'm not upset about having those ambitions. I am upset as to what our ambitions have become. That is where the ambitions I just stated would be considered a success.
I hope that as we now go forward, with or without Lerner, that our ambitions slowly get back to where they were in 2009 and climb from there.
Me too, but we've taken about as much a step forward in that direction as we possibly could have this summer.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
It's as much as I think we possibly could have done, and much more than I had expected at the end of last season.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
It's as much as I think we possibly could have done, and much more than I had expected at the end of last season.
I don't think we'll see any real ambition at Villa until a new owner turns up.
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
When we averaged 40,000 we sold out 11 times.
We had 5 capacity attendances that season, 6 if capacity was slightly lower for small heath due to segregation. I'm struggling to see any that weren't capacity due only to lack of away fans, although a few could go either way but it would be rare for the likes of Arsenal and Spurs not to sell out their allocations.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
It's as much as I think we possibly could have done, and much more than I had expected at the end of last season.
That is true, but I think 'ambitious' is a massive push. At the end of the day in fees we've paid out we've paid around £6 million. We've spent it well, but in Premier League terms that isn't ambitious.
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
It's as much as I think we possibly could have done, and much more than I had expected at the end of last season.
That is true, but I think 'ambitious' is a massive push. At the end of the day in fees we've paid out we've paid around £6 million. We've spent it well, but in Premier League terms that isn't ambitious.
Very fair point. I just don't think the club are solely operating on 'do just enough to stay up' like many insist.
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You could make a good case for PL fees being completely mental and beyond anything that resembles ambition. It wouldn't surprise me if the PL has the highest median transfer fees and wages in world football. Relative to the actual quality overall that it produces it is not a true representation of ambition in any way.
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In 1995, after the scare of nearly going down, Herbert sanctioned the spending of over £9 million on new players.
That was nearly 20 years ago (Christ).
Going into the last week in August, and after almost getting sucked into the relegation scrap again for the fourth year on the bounce, the powers that be think £6 million (so far) is enough to turn our fortunes around. I am happy that a few of our acquisitions look like good bargains, but the areas we really need to strengthen now (midfield and up top) also tend to be the most costly.
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You could make a good case for PL fees being completely mental and beyond anything that resembles ambition. It wouldn't surprise me if the PL has the highest median transfer fees and wages in world football. Relative to the actual quality overall that it produces it is not a true representation of ambition in any way.
That's true but it's a different debate even if Premier League fees are massive £6 million is a pretty modest outlay. I'm not disputing it appears to have been spent pretty well, but to get the quality we require to unlock teams and create chances we'll have to spend quite a bit more.
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I think our overall match day fan base is poor. Even when we were skirting around 3/4 mid seasons in 2007/8/9 we didn't sell out other than when GH's turned up. That's the most disappointing thing about our city.
When we averaged 40,000 we sold out 11 times.
We had 5 capacity attendances that season, 6 if capacity was slightly lower for small heath due to segregation. I'm struggling to see any that weren't capacity due only to lack of away fans, although a few could go either way but it would be rare for the likes of Arsenal and Spurs not to sell out their allocations.
Fair enough, don't know where that little snippet was ingrained onto my memory banks from. Still, to average 40k in a capacity of 42,500 our crowds must have been consistently up around that figure.
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Sky have got what they wanted - a core of four big contenders whose games they can promote to a casual audience. The rest are just the opposition. That's us I'm afraid.
So, so true. Even if Sky didn't want it, you still have the Euro Club of 16/20 who will control the TV cash.
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Ambition whatever it costs , as a minimum should be winning more games than you lose and trying to put on a display of cohesion, especially when the manager in charge is entering his 3rd season.
The amount of money quite rightly does not guarantee ambition or success, but the minimum any club should be looking to do is improve on their last finishing position.
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Was slightly disapointed after going on saturday, had hoped (admittedly rather than expected) to see a better attacking performance, but i think i agree with the majority that it is healthy to consider the wider positives- good point, unbeaten, more solid, encouraging cameo from The Rock, options in Joe Cole and Jack Grealish from the bench, impending return of Kozack and Benteke. Was my first league game for a couple of years, going to go to Hull as well I think- forgotten what a good day out it can be, even with a less inspired display.
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Fair enough, don't know where that little snippet was ingrained onto my memory banks from. Still, to average 40k in a capacity of 42,500 our crowds must have been consistently up around that figure.
Fair enough but the point I was making was that in this city we should have sold out every week in that era at only 42,500 capacity stadium not just when it's a local derby or stadium filled by brummie reds.
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Just about being realistic at the moment. We have been nearly the bottom than the top for the last three or four seasons, there is not a lot to suggest things will be much different this time. I get that the club have not shown much ambition as of late, but its gotten to the stage where we just have to deal with the problem of staying up, treat anything else as a bonus, and then try and move forward next season.
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If our signings are ambitious what is our ambition?
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If our signings are ambitious what is our ambition?
To stay in the Premier League while Lerner finds a buyer.
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Can i just ask, as i read 'so called villa fans' earlier about our lack of attendance ... Am i now a 'so called villa fan' after 5 years of being a season ticket holder (I'm only 25) as i have not renewed?
Nothing fucks me off more than that being said about those who don't go to games, even when i was going. What is this, top trumps?
There is more entertainment to be had watching an ant try and carry a leaf which is just a bit too big for him, but he won't give up.
I'm no longer paying my hard earned cash to be bored week in week out. Maybe if we won, then that joyous feeling would out do the dross, but i don't really remember that feeling too much.
Edit: pretty funny, i got my own age wrong!
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Took my son into Hewitts in Croydon for his new uniform. Some spotty kid served me and after I explained what I wanted he asked "Do you know how old he is"? Dick.
Anyway satsuma you are now a so-called Villa fan and yes I am a better fan than you.
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I agree with others that there has been some sensible decisions made by the board these last few weeks, a few experienced heads have been brought in, we've spent £7m as well as £7m pounds can be spent but surely Paulie is completely correct in what he says.
How can others have failed to see the disastrous last 3 seasons we have endured, the devastating fall in ambition. Just because we're trying to put it right little by little doesn't mean we're suddenly showing ambition again. I also don't buy that "all teams below 8th are the same", that's just the usual lumping together done by the apologists. There's been a marked difference between ourselves and the other clubs above us in recent seasons (the clue is they've finished above us).
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I wouldn't say we're showing ambition, we're just doing something that Lambert should have done in the first place and that's bring in players who've got premiership experience. It was needed because we couldn't keep going with the players we had. Better late than never i suppose so let's see how it goes.
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no amount of revisionism now will make up for the two year Lerner/ Lambert triple axis whammy of the youth only policy, the wilful squandering of resources that was the bomb squad policy and Tweedle Dum & Tweedle Dee-gate, unless we finish top 8, win the majority of our home games, halve the number of goals conceded from last season, boost the entertainment factor hugely by injecting guile and artistry in midfield, increase crowds, solve the middle east question and ensure that Scotland remain part of the UK. Simple.
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and that's my question. Beyond staying in this league what is the ambition of 13-14 clubs? It's the same as ours. That doesn't make it good or right. But it would take monstrous investment for all of those clubs and us to bridge the gap that now exists. What would constitute a statement of ambition for you? Genuine question. I know I'd like us to compete for a CL spot but it's not going to happen even if we went out and broke the bank for a couple of players. And if you want proof of that just look at what Man U are trying to do and two games in you can already see that it will take a lot more than just breaking transfer records to do it.
A couple of 10million plus signings would sure help.
However failing that, I agree there are 13 relegation battlers these days, however some are trying to play good football, others are ugly to watch.
I want us to play good football ("we are Aston Villa, we are passing the ball") and be comfortable mid table. I don't think thats asking the world. Right now we feel like one of those clubs which when playing a similar one you immediately change channel.
honestly don't think it's about the money you spend in our position, more about the value you can bring in. You could spunk 20 mill on two distinctly average signings. Given our situation I think it's the correct approach to look for value. We've got a solid spine, some good younger players and now a bit of experience to throw in the mix also. When you're shopping in the sales like we are, you're not going to spend 20-30m on finished product players in their prime, it will be value signings that can do a job and improve the squad. They'll also have their downsides, but hopefully the players we've brought in and the one or two we may also bring in will provide value and take us fwd. I wouldn't be surprised if we did bring in an extra couple of players, I also wouldn't be surprised if that's it til Jan. from evidence so far, we should be a bit more comfortable this season.
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I agree with others that there has been some sensible decisions made by the board these last few weeks, a few experienced heads have been brought in, we've spent £7m as well as £7m pounds can be spent but surely Paulie is completely correct in what he says.
How can others have failed to see the disastrous last 3 seasons we have endured, the devastating fall in ambition. Just because we're trying to put it right little by little doesn't mean we're suddenly showing ambition again. I also don't buy that "all teams below 8th are the same", that's just the usual lumping together done by the apologists. There's been a marked difference between ourselves and the other clubs above us in recent seasons (the clue is they've finished above us).
"Apologists" - that sort of cliched dismissal of people who see things differently really does spoil any sensible point you might be trying to make.
Of course the squad needed improving, it always does. That doesn't mean that we had no decent players or decent results just that it lacked depth and couldn't cope with injuries. Part of that was obviously the so called 'bomb squad' issue and part of it was the cost cutting that the club was working to. Hopefully that has been addressed to a large extent, at least on paper. As ever, time will tell.
Everyone involved has to take a share of the blame, from Lerner down, but I am hoping that the changes made in the boardroom, with the coaching and on the pitch is enough to give everyone a fresh start and be judged on what happens from now on, not on the past.
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I am also a so-called Villa fan. I decided not to renew my ST after 16 years and have stuck to it (reasons are elsewhere on H&V). I will still attend games of my choosing. I went to Stoke with UKR and PWS. I missed the Newcastle game due to having already booked a weekend away in Goosnargh for a brilliant beer festival, but watched it all live on screen at a pub in Longridge. I am going to watch us play Leyton Orient on Wednesday. I am bringing my 6-year-old Grandson with me to watch Hull. I will definitely be getting tickets for the Arsenal game. I will probably be getting tickets for Manchester City. I would have got a ticket for the trip to Everton but my Y6 are ball boys and girls at Walsall v Crewe on that day. If that makes me a so-called Villa fan then so be it.
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I am also a so-called Villa fan.
No way you are having that title not by a million miles. The so called are ones you meet talk about Villa moan about Villa live in Brum but have not been near the ground for about 20 years or something like that!
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Before we get to ambition we need to address needs which is what we have done this summer. We then set goals based on addressing those needs and the manager has already made it clear that one of those goals is not to go through what we have in recent seasons. I believe the squad now, especially the added experience both with the players and assistant manager will go a long way to avoiding that. Finally, we can set some stretch goals or ambitions and I think those will become easier to consider and attain as the season goes on. It could be that one of those is qualifying for the Europa next season if things are going well around December. It might prompt buying a player or two to achieve that aim.
In the end we need to take our ambition in pieces. Build methodically and ensure the volatility of the last few years is not repeated. A good model for that is Everton where they have been been stable for the past 10-12 years now and have generally been able to build every summer on the previous campaign without any significant disruption. They have sold players and bought them without their net spend being something they have not been able to manage. We need to get to that point and the measures set in place (albeit painfully) will help us to achieve that.
I said yesterday that I am not upset at the current goals for this season or what would translate to our ambition if things were going along steadily. I'm not happy that our goals and ambitions are where they are overall because if is a reflection on what has happened since MON walked out, and it is unacceptable. That's not to say we cannot build back towards that. It's just that it is likely going to be more difficult and take longer with the financial restrictions that exist.
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Took my son into Hewitts in Croydon for his new uniform. Some spotty kid served me and after I explained what I wanted he asked "Do you know how old he is"? Dick.
Anyway satsuma you are now a so-called Villa fan and yes I am a better fan than you.
Haha peter you complete barstud!
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Still want to know what people think we'd need to do before they consider us 'ambitious'.
I know what you mean. 4 relegation battles on the trot. What more do the fans want??
Again, we've greatly improved the squad. This is about this season not previous ones.
The defence looks better I'll give you that, and that's the least we should expect considering how poor it's been over the last few years. I don't think what Lerner's done so far this season is ambitious. More like the bare minimum to stay in the league.
It's as much as I think we possibly could have done, and much more than I had expected at the end of last season.
That is true, but I think 'ambitious' is a massive push. At the end of the day in fees we've paid out we've paid around £6 million. We've spent it well, but in Premier League terms that isn't ambitious.
Very fair point. I just don't think the club are solely operating on 'do just enough to stay up' like many insist.
I disagree. When you are so close to relegation the season before and then in the summer you are nearly the lowest spenders in the league - that suggests you are hoping to stay up.
Luckily, I think Lambert has spent well. (Although Cole looks a iffy gamble)
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After the perfromance on Saturday, I can see why so many fans are staying away! it was desperate, and I have re-newed my season ticket god knows why!
Read a comment from Lambert who said we were excellent - the only improvement from last season was that defencevely we looked more organised, but the real problem is that we lack any ideas when we attack (not 1 shot on target when we are the home side)
I hope our new CEO see's what we see!!!! he has so much to sort out
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Early days yet. I think Lambert is hoping Joe Cole will come off and Benteke/Kozak will be fit shortly and start scoring goals straight away
It appears Cissoko can cross a ball with pace so it could work.
But its a big gamble if he doesn't get further reinforcements in.
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Rare trip to Brum and went to VP. Some observations.
Why do we bring every player back for corners?
Why do we retreat to the edge of our own penalty box and not try to press the ball higher up the pitch?
Why do we allow the opposition to always be able to play it out from the goalkeeper?
Gabby and Weiman were just awful and their off the ball running was useless.
The defence looks solid, midfield did ok, the final ball was terrible.
I think with every one fit we should be safely mid table.
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Rare trip to Brum and went to VP. Some observations.
Why do we bring every player back for corners?
This drives me mad, leave two up and at least three stay back to mark.