Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: David_Nab on August 06, 2014, 04:02:34 PM
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Samir Carruthers has left permanently , joined MK dons
(probably worth its own topic, so I've split this out of the transfer thread - Dave)
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Anyone left at VP?
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Any money involved?
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Samir Carruthers has left permanently , joined MK dons
A tad bit disappointed about that because it looked like he had some promise, but it was unlikely that he was ever going to get a chance.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
I'd go with this, him and Grealish both went out on loan last year to clubs where they'd be expected to look a class above if they were ready for the premier league; Grealish regularly did, Carruthers rarely did. Given that Carruthers is older and had premier league appearances under his belt where he looked like he had the talent to make it you have to assume that there's something not quite right there, attitude and specifically the will to really push on is the normal culprit.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
I never got that impression. I don't MK Dons would have wanted him if his attitude was in question. If anything I think he's probably just fallen victim to Grealish's progress.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
I'd go with this, him and Grealish both went out on loan last year to clubs where they'd be expected to look a class above if they were ready for the premier league; Grealish regularly did, Carruthers rarely did. Given that Carruthers is older and had premier league appearances under his belt where he looked like he had the talent to make it you have to assume that there's something not quite right there, attitude and specifically the will to really push on is the normal culprit.
Or simply that he's just not as good as Grealish? Certainly, he didn't seem to have the pace (or more specifically acceleration) to make it as a winger to me, and only ever really stood out as a 'number 10' in the Youth Team.
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
Except that one's very much an attacking midfielder / winger and the other very much a defensive midfielder / centre-back / right back. They're not comparable players in the slightest.
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
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Seems a bit tough to assume attitude issues. If he was on loan to MK Dons and they've now bought him permanently, that suggests no problem there.
Maybe he's just not good enough?
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
That's not really fair either. Agbonlahor, Weimann, Baker, Clark and Grealish are all very much part of the current first team squad. The club are guilty of a lot of things at present, but not giving youth a chance is hardly one of them.
I'm not quite sure why we're so reluctant to just accept that Carruthers wasn't quite good enough and moved on?
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
Except that one's very much an attacking midfielder / winger and the other very much a defensive midfielder / centre-back / right back. They're not comparable players in the slightest.
Carruthers started out as a winger and ended up being much more of a central midfielder. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Herd is a right-back or central defender?
What nonsense.
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
If you're sick of both them not getting the chance, and them getting the chance but not stepping up, what are the club meant to do about it?
The number of youth team players who make it at a Premier League club is truly miniscule, the odds are always going to be stacked against them.
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
Except that one's very much an attacking midfielder / winger and the other very much a defensive midfielder / centre-back / right back. They're not comparable players in the slightest.
Carruthers started out as a winger and ended up being much more of a central midfielder. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Herd is a right-back or central defender?
What nonsense.
If I hadn't watched Villa since Alex McLeish left I might think that you had a point.
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
I've always thought of him as a winger, well a wide player anyway. Definately not a centre mid and nothing like Herd at all.
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does anyne know if we got any money for him? and if so does that put us in positive equity for this transfer window? im still asuming we didnt pay for Richardson
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The fee is undisclosed but described as 'nominal. much like the Richardson deal. I wouldn't imagine that we've about broken-even in terms of fees so far this summer.
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my daughters boyfriend is a MK dons fan, and watches them regulary
he said Carruthers was the best player they had at the Dons last season until he got injured
not saying he was good enough for the prem as I have never seen him play, but he was plenty good enough at this level
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
If you're sick of both them not getting the chance, and them getting the chance but not stepping up, what are the club meant to do about it?
The number of youth team players who make it at a Premier League club is truly miniscule, the odds are always going to be stacked against them.
I have always found it hard to believe that any manager worth his salt would go out of his way to stop a player from coming through the clubs academy. First it's essentially free and allows him to spend his limited resources elsewhere, and two in the most part it is hugely popular with the supporters. It's hard breaking into a PL first team squad as it should be and much of it is down to attitude which is what I was alluding to with my earlier comment on Carruthers. Not that he has a bad one, but that he couldn't elevate himself sufficiently to make the grade. And it could be that he isn't good enough right now, but if he has the talent and the mental strength he can come back from this disappointment and make a good career for himself down the road.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
or maybe he doesn't want to play in our reserves, and instead wants to play first team football at a club which is arguably on the up. big stadium, growing crowds and has a good chance of being in the championship soon.
could be playing against us next year...
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
If you're sick of both them not getting the chance, and them getting the chance but not stepping up, what are the club meant to do about it?
The number of youth team players who make it at a Premier League club is truly miniscule, the odds are always going to be stacked against them.
I have always found it hard to believe that any manager worth his salt would go out of his way to stop a player from coming through the clubs academy. First it's essentially free and allows him to spend his limited resources elsewhere, and two in the most part it is hugely popular with the supporters. It's hard breaking into a PL first team squad as it should be and much of it is down to attitude which is what I was alluding to with my earlier comment on Carruthers. Not that he has a bad one, but that he couldn't elevate himself sufficiently to make the grade. And it could be that he isn't good enough right now, but if he has the talent and the mental strength he can come back from this disappointment and make a good career for himself down the road.
That's the other point, lots of players experience this, don't make it at big club after coming through the ranks, drop down a division or two, work their way back up.
Good luck to him.
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I'm fuming about the decision (If he turns out to be good)
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
I'd go with this, him and Grealish both went out on loan last year to clubs where they'd be expected to look a class above if they were ready for the premier league; Grealish regularly did, Carruthers rarely did. Given that Carruthers is older and had premier league appearances under his belt where he looked like he had the talent to make it you have to assume that there's something not quite right there, attitude and specifically the will to really push on is the normal culprit.
I think he was playing well at Franchise before he did his cruciate.
Disappointed he didn't get a chance here, don't think Lambert really rated him.
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Can't say I'm that bothered other than it's another example of one of our seemingly better younger players not really making it. Given the club's business model this has been a failure significant issue!
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Might have been worth another season. Certainly has skill but possibly has attitude problems which could be why Lambert hasn't given him
much of a chance.
Might be another John Gidman . Didn't make it at Liverpool but boy did he come good at Villa Park.
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Not every youth player makes it though. Say around 5-6 breakthrough each year then usually only 1-2 are still there a few years later. Not just us but majority of other clubs. To me this harks back to the 2002 youth cup winning team and people automatically thinking every single member of that team would be a villa regular, it just dosen't happen in the real world.
From the 2010 crop Weimann, Baker and Clark are all still here wether they're good enough or not. Grealish I'm sure will get chances this season.
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Good luck to him. Hope we've included a sell-on clause just in case.
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He had a bad injury last season. I think another season out on loan would have been better. I'm sick of all these youth players never stepping up or not being given the chance.
Its something the club need to sort out.
Daniel Johnson will be one of the next out of the door I reckon. Been out on loan shown next to nothing.
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A bit sad cos he's the type of player I love to see thrive for Villa - skilfull and capable of making something out of nothing. Will be easier to take if Grealish and Gardner both take their chance this season.
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attitude issues? He seemed to show ability but you have to be dedicated too even when the chips are down.
I'd go with this, him and Grealish both went out on loan last year to clubs where they'd be expected to look a class above if they were ready for the premier league; Grealish regularly did, Carruthers rarely did. Given that Carruthers is older and had premier league appearances under his belt where he looked like he had the talent to make it you have to assume that there's something not quite right there, attitude and specifically the will to really push on is the normal culprit.
I think he was playing well at Franchise before he did his cruciate.
Disappointed he didn't get a chance here, don't think Lambert really rated him.
I don't rate Lambert, I really wanted him here but he has been a huge disapointment. His plan B 4 forwards against lower league teams etc. This lad seems to have a good career ahead of him good luck. He came from Arsenal as I recall.
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No great loss.
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Looked like he had potential a few years ago, haven't really seen anything from him since, on loan or during pre-seasons.
Good luck to him though
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Seems a bit tough to assume attitude issues. If he was on loan to MK Dons and they've now bought him permanently, that suggests no problem there.
Maybe he's just not good enough?
All I'll say in regards to potential attitude issues was, there was that apparent phone incident not long after Lambo took over. Conjecture of course, and possibly just a bit of foolishness on Samirs part. It may well have marked his card somewhat with Lambert, even despite it being a fairly innocuous incident.
Last pre-season in a couple of games he did, to me anyway, seem to have a touch of the Bellamy about him. Very prickly sort of player. Liked to square up at the first sign of a firm tackle coming his way, and spent a lot of pitch time moaning at the ref. At the same time though, he couldn't seem to channel that firey attitude in the way Bellend could at his best, and obviously aside, lacks the pace that Bellend could call upon.
He looked a bright spark in those cameos in McLeish's reign, but then again, it came at the end of a very long, hard, dreary season. May just be a case of not being rated. I also remember him being far more lithe when he first broke in and having a bit of acceleration on him. He looks bulkier now, and alongside the injuries he may have lost a couple of yards of pace and not have the attributes to make up for that. His first game this pre-season he looked good in the opening stages but seemed to fade out the game a bit.
Good luck to him though. I'm sure if there are any hints of a billy big bollocks attitude, that a permanent move to MK will ground him, and he'll have to work bloody hard to climb the leagues again.
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If he's not going to play then it's the best solution for everyone. Good luck to him.
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Pretty excited about him playing for us when he left Arse to join Villa and he looked really good in those days, more of a winger. Since moving to midfield and filling out a bit he seems to have lost his sharpness.
Good luck to him but not enough for him to play well or score against us should we meet!
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Yeah I can't really see what kind of player he'd be at the top level. He's too chunky for a winger.
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
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Why play him in pre season? Must have known he was off
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Why play him in pre season? Must have known he was off
Mostly likely that was his last chance to make an impression....and he clearly failed
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Tonev is still on the payroll.
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Bit odd to not even give the kid a real chance whilst at the same time we are buying washed up garbage like Joe Cole.
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Why play him in pre season? Must have known he was off
Mostly likely that was his last chance to make an impression....and he clearly failed
He was useless at Chesterfield.
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A professional footballer earning a good wage in division 1, who used to be on the books of a Premier League club. There are plenty around. Not every player will be our next err Agbonlahor?
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Maybe he asked for a move ? He may be earning more at MK Dons ?
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The words 'winger' have been mentioned in this topic. Alas - a redundant species under our Scottish managers.
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Bit odd to not even give the kid a real chance whilst at the same time we are buying washed up garbage like Joe Cole.
Did we pay money for Joe Cole?
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.
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Bit odd to not even give the kid a real chance whilst at the same time we are buying washed up garbage like Joe Cole.
Did we pay money for Joe Cole?
No but we've invested a lot into him over his 2 year deal.
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Bit odd to not even give the kid a real chance whilst at the same time we are buying washed up garbage like Joe Cole.
Did we pay money for Joe Cole?
No but we've invested a lot into him over his 2 year deal.
Maybe give him a chance before referring to him as "washed up garbage"?
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.
Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.
Our time will come.
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I don't trust Lambert with home grown talent, he would much rather buy crap from wherever than develop talent.
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.
Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.
Our time will come.
In the last 7 years the following have made their debuts and gone on to make more than 10 PL appearances:
2008/09 - Delfouneso
2009/10 - Albrighton, Clark
2010/11 - Weimann, Bannan, Baker, Herd
2011/12 - none
2012/13 - none
2013/14 - none
Not exactly brilliant and according to some, those that remain should be nowhere near the 1st team.
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I agree - I don't think our youth system has lived up to the hype.
The best recent crop, in hindsight, was Cahill, Ridgewell, Davis, Gardner, whittingham, gabby who I think were roughly all the same time
It was just our luck that they came through when we were at our strongest and we flogged all of them bar gabby. If they'd come through 2-3 years later we wouldn't have struggled so much.
Cahill ahead of baker / Clark? Gardner ahead of bannan? Ridgewell ahead of herd? Davis ahead of carruthers?
You'd have to take that
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Don't think you can really judge the youth stystem right now until we see how some of the players turn out. Also when you are a top six club like we were during the MON years or in the process of rebuilding, it does make more sense to go with proven players or experience.
Didn't see enough of Carruthers to form an opinion. The manager clearly doesn't fancy him, and since he is going to be our manager for awhile then it makes sense to move him on. The lower leagues are the best place for him to try and iron out any flaws. Good luck to him.
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Don't think you can really judge the youth stystem right now until we see how some of the players turn out. Also when you are a top six club like we were during the MON years or in the process of rebuilding, it does make more sense to go with proven players or experience.
Didn't see enough of Carruthers to form an opinion. The manager clearly doesn't fancy him, and since he is going to be our manager for awhile then it makes sense to move him on. The lower leagues are the best place for him to try and iron out any flaws. Good luck to him.
I know it's been mentioned before, but the clubs lack of long term thinking (even since Randy arrived) is frightening. The way that they've changed direction in their managerial appointments has killed-off any kind of continuity for the youth policy.
For example, under MON, I don't think there was any remit to bring youth players through, or even get top dollar for selling them. £4.5m for Davis was decent business at the time, but I don't think anyone saw the sense in selling Cahill to Bolton for £5m.
Houllier, in my opinion, did an excellent job in this area. Not only in playing a number of them (albeit often due to circumstance) but also by talking them up (e.g. Bannan as the Scottish Iniesta!) he developed the likes of Clark and made players like Jonathan Hogg sellable assets.
I'll gloss over McLeish as I'm not sure that he even realised we had a Youth Team, but Lambert seems to be doing what he can to give youth a chance.
I fully appreciate that each of the above manager's has worked under different circumstances, but it does bug me that there hasn't been some kind of club-strategy here.
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I felt that our young and hungry experiment was mishandled in many ways. We went and bought a whole host of young, cheap players from overseas or lower leagues, rather than spending wiser on a selection of better players and then trying to intergrate our youngsters into the side more.
That has been a problem since Lambert took over. If you're telling me our academy can't produce better players than Sylla, Tonev, Dawkins, Westwood, Bennett, and Luna, then it really is in a mess. We've truly bought some dross, and at best average players.
Over the last decade we've raised a fair few average premiership players from our academy, most of whom have gone onto other pastures.
Carruthers has ability, if not, seemingly the aptitude.
In terms of the current batch on the brink of the first team, they're not quite as impressive as perhaps 5-10 years ago. Grealish stands out. Robinson is very raw but could make it. Johnson has ability but seems destined to float under the radar. Donacien couldn't be any worse than Baker, and at least has pace in his arsenal. Gardners on last chance saloon really. It's this season or never.
We need to get our players out on loan and benefitting from it, then integrating them better. I'll say at least Lambert seems to be doing that with Robinson and Grealish. I suspect Robbo will get a loan or two this season and perhaps feature tail end. He may feature early season too, while we're without Benteke and Kozak.
I just hope that the current batch of players around 16-18, the next sort of wave will be better. We've got to use them right, help them. In a couple of years they need to be ready for league football loans, and then a year on from there, integration to our first team. I think largely, we've screwed the pooch with a lot of our current 19-23 year olds.
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I felt that our young and hungry experiment was mishandled in many ways. We went and bought a whole host of young, cheap players from overseas or lower leagues, rather than spending wiser on a selection of better players and then trying to intergrate our youngsters into the side more.
That has been a problem since Lambert took over. If you're telling me our academy can't produce better players than Sylla, Tonev, Dawkins, Westwood, Bennett, and Luna, then it really is in a mess. We've truly bought some dross, and at best average players.
Over the last decade we've raised a fair few average premiership players from our academy, most of whom have gone onto other pastures.
Carruthers has ability, if not, seemingly the aptitude.
In terms of the current batch on the brink of the first team, they're not quite as impressive as perhaps 5-10 years ago. Grealish stands out. Robinson is very raw but could make it. Johnson has ability but seems destined to float under the radar. Donacien couldn't be any worse than Baker, and at least has pace in his arsenal. Gardners on last chance saloon really. It's this season or never.
We need to get our players out on loan and benefitting from it, then integrating them better. I'll say at least Lambert seems to be doing that with Robinson and Grealish. I suspect Robbo will get a loan or two this season and perhaps feature tail end. He may feature early season too, while we're without Benteke and Kozak.
I just hope that the current batch of players around 16-18, the next sort of wave will be better. We've got to use them right, help them. In a couple of years they need to be ready for league football loans, and then a year on from there, integration to our first team. I think largely, we've screwed the pooch with a lot of our current 19-23 year olds.
You make a fair point, but then that is partly down to Lambert wasting money on mostly poor players. If his judgement had been better on those transfers then the lack of a good youth system (if that is the case) wouldn't be such an issue.
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Good luck to the lad. I imagine he's fallen down in the pecking order behind Grealish,at his age he needs to play. No big loss really.
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For all those being negative about him leaving, if we lose a few games next year are you going to be clamouring for us to play Samir Carruthers instead of XXXXXXX player.
I thought not.
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He's down the pecking order, he needs to be playing at his age! It's common it happens all the time. Good luck to him
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.
Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.
Our time will come.
In the last 7 years the following have made their debuts and gone on to make more than 10 PL appearances:
2008/09 - Delfouneso
2009/10 - Albrighton, Clark
2010/11 - Weimann, Bannan, Baker, Herd
2011/12 - none
2012/13 - none
2013/14 - none
Not exactly brilliant and according to some, those that remain should be nowhere near the 1st team.
Damn that's depressing! I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.
Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough? Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro. Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?
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Since MON arrived 7 years ago how many youth/U21 players have appeared for us in the PL. Of those, how many have gone on to play more than 10 games or moved on to other clubs for a reasonable amount of money.
Compare that with Everton over the same period. People go on about how good the academy is at getting players through to U21 level but is there something fundamentally amiss. Are we developing strong U21 teams to the detriment of the individual.
Gardner in 11/12?
Have we failed all that badly? How many youngsters have come through at Villa in the last 10-15 years and gone on to make 50+ premier league appearances with someone, I reckon it's more than most clubs. What we haven't had is a genuine superstar, Cahill is probably the best of the lot.
Don't we have the best rate of all kids coming through the system that then go on to forge a professional career, something around 10%? If so, it shows we must be doing something right. But with so many, our inability to uncover that one truly mercurial talent is baffling. I believe that real footballing ability is a gift, not learned. We're just bastard unlucky in my book.
Our time will come.
In the last 7 years the following have made their debuts and gone on to make more than 10 PL appearances:
2008/09 - Delfouneso
2009/10 - Albrighton, Clark
2010/11 - Weimann, Bannan, Baker, Herd
2011/12 - none
2012/13 - none
2013/14 - none
Not exactly brilliant and according to some, those that remain should be nowhere near the 1st team.
Damn that's depressing! I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.
Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough? Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro. Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?
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Losing Carruthers is no big loss, he's not at a good enough level to get into the Villa's first team and at his age he should be playing more regularly.
There are countless players who have lots of promise at an early age and don't go on to develop into the finished article. This doesn't just happen at Villa it happens at every club.
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I saw him play on Saturday (Swindon vs Villa XI) and paid particular attention to him because i was so impressed with his performances a couple of years ago.
To be honest i couldn't believe it was the same player, he's certainly bulked up and lost more than a yard of pace.
He lost most battles in the middle of the park and his distribution was poor.
I think he would struggle to get in the Swindon first team so a move to MK Dons is a pretty good move for him.
To be honest it was quite shocking the difference between the Villa team and the Swindon team, both were made up of teens and early twenty somethings but it was very much men against boys.
I guess that what playing regular competitive football does for you.
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I saw him play on Saturday (Swindon vs Villa XI) and paid particular attention to him because i was so impressed with his performances a couple of years ago.
To be honest i couldn't believe it was the same player, he's certainly bulked up and lost more than a yard of pace.
He lost most battles in the middle of the park and his distribution was poor.
I think he would struggle to get in the Swindon first team so a move to MK Dons is a pretty good move for him.
To be honest it was quite shocking the difference between the Villa team and the Swindon team, both were made up of teens and early twenty somethings but it was very much men against boys.
I guess that what playing regular competitive football does for you.
Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!
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Damn that's depressing! I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.
Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough? Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro. Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?
It's the hardest hurdle of all, Sexwhale.
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Yeah, it's more like the travelator at the end of the Gladiators assault course than a hurdle.
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Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!
Based on those two games and the numerous next gen games that i watched.... yes...
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Damn that's depressing! I don't know how much it costs to develop a 10 year old kid into a 20 year old professional, but we surely can't be recovering the costs through player sales, and we don't develop enough players who are good enough for the Premier League.
Is it because our youth scouts aren't good enough? Doubtful, because we seem to produce a lot of players who can perform at youth level; so the disconnect must be in that final push from promising youngster to first team squad pro. Why do so many of our kids fail at this hurdle?
It's the hardest hurdle of all, Sexwhale.
That step is all in the mind. Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players. Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction. Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.
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That step is all in the mind. Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players. Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction. Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.
I don't really see this. Firstly, I think the step-us from youth football to senior football is a huge one physically. It's not just "all in the mind." Secondly, we've gone from assuming that Carruthers' problem has been with his attitude, to suggesting that the reason more kids don't make it through is because we don't instill "cocky self-belief" in them. Isn't that contradictory? If anything, the big success stories that we have produced have all come across as being extremely level-headed (Barry, Cahill, Hitzlsperger) and often hear coaches say that the ones who make it are the ones who realise that the hard-work starts when they step-up into the senior squad, not that they instantly belong there.
I also don't look at players like Agbonlahor, Nathan Baker, Gary Cahill or Craig Gardner and think that they're "a bit soft."
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That step is all in the mind. Before that being bigger/quicker/stronger or having good solid technique can set you apart, when you get to the top level in a big league you're up against people who are just as big/strong/quick and have good technique, and top it off with having played there for a few years. You need to have the cocky self-belief to know that you belong there and for some reason we've struggled to instill that in our players. Part of that comes from the players themselves and possibly our selection process but on top of that we need coaches at reserve level who can push them in the right direction. Our kids are all too nice and seemingly a big soft.
I don't really see this. Firstly, I think the step-us from youth football to senior football is a huge one physically. It's not just "all in the mind." Secondly, we've gone from assuming that Carruthers' problem has been with his attitude, to suggesting that the reason more kids don't make it through is because we don't instill "cocky self-belief" in them. Isn't that contradictory? If anything, the big success stories that we have produced have all come across as being extremely level-headed (Barry, Cahill, Hitzlsperger) and often hear coaches say that the ones who make it are the ones who realise that the hard-work starts when they step-up into the senior squad, not that they instantly belong there.
I also don't look at players like Agbonlahor, Nathan Baker, Gary Cahill or Craig Gardner and think that they're "a bit soft."
The word cocky has confused you and I should've removed it. Knowing you're good and being level-headed aren't mutually exclusive you can be both. The players you've named, Barry was a special talent, Cahill knew he was better than mon thought and forced through a transfer to play, which is exactly the attitude you need. Hitz is a slightly special case because he scored a screamer early on in his career with us and then fed off the crowd for the rest of his time, he's one where the fans made him a better player by taking to him so eagerly.
Carruthers - the story about his phone and a few rumours of him having a 'do you know who I am' attitude are the warning signs. As I said when he went to MK dons if he was going to make it I'd have wanted to see highlights of him dominating games and being targeted as the key man (like grealish) but that never happened, we got reports of him looking good and being neat and tidy but nothing more.
The 'soft' bit is a mental strength issue, I agree that Gardner and Cahill don't have a problem with that. Gabby didn't earlier, but the last few years he's become prone to sulking and looking like he's not interested, which fans have picked up on. Baker, like Bannan and Bennett is mentally fragile. They need things to go well early in the game to settle in and then they look like different players. This is where the 'in their heads' element becomes key. i honestly think that there's nothing between Bennett, Luna and Bertrand in terms of ability but 1 arrived knowing he was as good a player as anyone at the club and this was going to be his chance to show Chelsea he could be a star for them, it took about a month for that confidence to erode and then he became just as average as the others.
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Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!
Based on those two games and the numerous next gen games that i watched.... yes...
It was one game Tom and I don't think one can really count next gen games. I would still contend that the evidence he was any good was based on nothing much more than that Gerrard moment. Which is a bit like rating Tony Luna on his goal against Arsenal
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Good luck Sam.
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Performances? I remember one good moment when he nutmegged Gerrard and a decent game in general against the Bindippers and that was about it. Based seemingly on that alone, everyone seemed to decide he had fantastic potential!
Based on those two games and the numerous next gen games that i watched.... yes...
It was one game Tom and I don't think one can really count next gen games. I would still contend that the evidence he was any good was based on nothing much more than that Gerrard moment. Which is a bit like rating Tony Luna on his goal against Arsenal
He played 3 times for the first team, only about 25 mins total granted. Why can't one count U21 games when judging a players potential? I would imagine it's what the coaches, manager etc do, so why not fans who watch those games?
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He was better than Herd I thought, but maybe not quite good enough for the top flight (not that it's stopped Baker and Clark getting lots of games).
A completely different type of player to Herd though. I think he's just found his level. Good luck to him.
Not really, Carruthers has played in central midfield the last few times I've seen him play, which is Herd's position.
Except that one's very much an attacking midfielder / winger and the other very much a defensive midfielder / centre-back / right back. They're not comparable players in the slightest.
Carruthers started out as a winger and ended up being much more of a central midfielder. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Herd is a right-back or central defender?
What nonsense.
You're a dumbass.
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We'll have less of that. Apologise please, and if you can't debate without resorting to insults then this isn't the place for you.