Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on October 20, 2013, 09:28:52 AM
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Available Sunday 20.10.13 @5.50pm
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Disappointing to concede the 2nd just when we were getting on top a bit , after that spurs bossed things.
Again created little at home and been overrun - disappointing , baker and luna looked poor 2nd half, Westwood far too lightweight in losing the ball for the 2nd goal- play either him or kea at home but not both - sylla adds presence .
Guzan made some great saves to keep it respectable but man of match once again for me was Delph!
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Shite
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A gulf in quality. Better when Benteke came on though.
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Really poor. 180 minutes where we haven't looked like scoring. Really terrible to watch.
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Thoroughly predictable outcome, yet no less depressing for it. We're a dreary outfit. Oh well, we go again.
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normal service resumed...
thought delph and weimann worked hard.
westwood was poor again. that corner in the first half was disgraceful.
soldado took his goal superbly.
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Dire. Very predictable.
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Bloody lucky Spuds, sell Bale for £86m and the Townsend steps up to the plate like that!
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We didn't concede 4....
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No real inventiveness...Tonev looked bright on coming on, so food for thought for the next game. We need a spark.
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I think people are over reacting a fair bit. Disappointing not to force a save. But Spurs have one of the best defences in the league and we had chances to force one.
I wouldn't be complacent. But neither do I think it was shite.
I actually though Westwood was generally pretty good, though I agree he got outmuscled for the goal.
People keep on calling for Sylla to come in for Westwood, but I really don't see who plays in the holding role if he does, unless we play Delph there as we did v Citeh. But I think that's a waste.
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Utter,utter cack and I fucking hate Spurs Why we think we can't give them a game is beyond me.
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Delph constantly getting MOTM is damning him with faint praise for me. Our midfield is useless and he's the best of a bad bunch.
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Just not good enough again. Got to start playing 4 4 2 at home UTV
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We're fucked when benteke goes in jan
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Delph was sloppy i lost count how many times he lost possession, far from good.
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Basically a pretty disappointing display in which we never looked likely to win against a pretty under par Spurs team.
Positives -
- Benteke getting some minutes on the pitch.
- Guzan did well.
- Delph did well other than his stupid yellow card.
- Vlaar was decent and so was Bacuna.
Negatives -
- No real creativity and KEA and Westwood seem to do one player's job between them.
- Baker is positionally hopeless and very careless and doesn't appear to have improved at all since he came into the side.
- Luna fails to stop crosses from the left all the time.
- Gabby and Weimann aren't offering enough from the wide positions on a consistent basis.
Basically nothing we didn't know, we desperately need a couple of quality additions in midfield and wide. Also we really need our centre-halves fit as Baker isn't up to it.
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Bloody lucky Spuds, sell Bale for £86m and the Townsend steps up to the plate like that!
He was good last season. Very good player.
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Might as well have McLeish back.
Negative tactics and team selection. Sylla for KEA every time for me. Sat back and invted Spurs onto us. Poor, poor, poor.
We were beaten before we started. We are the f in home team FFS.
Spurs have pace, power, a plan and some bloody good players. We have none of this
Suggest a bit of shooting practice as well.
Was going to get tickets for Everton but after that I will save me £50.
Gabby was in the media at the weekend talking aout his WC hopes. Ha ha. Not a chance.
Truly depressing
Rant over
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I've heard that Paul Lambert is calling for an Ashley Westwood England selection. Is this a wee Scottish jokie? Ashley Westwood is the footballing equivalent of used chewing gum. Tasteless and rather pointless.
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Pretty much a standard Villa Park performance there (so pretty bad).
That said, I think we would've got something if Benteke had started, but it was probably sensible not to risk him for the whole game.
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I suppose we were due a defeat. Lack of chances created is a worry. Two games without scoring now.
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Why on earth we wait an hour and a goal down before deciding to pass the ball I don't know. We need a serious upgrade in midfield. Delph does ok, but with both Westwood and El Ahmadi in the side we are desperately short of any kind of presence there.
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Might as well have McLeish back.
Negative tactics and team selection. Sylla for KEA every time for me. Sat back and invted Spurs onto us. Poor, poor, poor.
We were beaten before we started. We are the f in home team FFS.
Spurs have pace, power, a plan and some bloody good players. We have none of this
Suggest a bit of shooting practice as well.
Was going to get tickets for Everton but after that I will save me £50.
Gabby was in the media at the weekend talking aout his WC hopes. Ha ha. Not a chance.
Truly depressing
Rant over
Are you for real? Crap day but miles better than last year, we just need to start adding quality in the next transfer windows. But we know that.
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lambert is a useless turd and I feel much better for articulating that emotion
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Delph was sloppy i lost count how many times he lost possession, far from good.
He was very good. Tired a bit. And lost it when he really had no options due to lack of movement. Should sharpen up and make better decisions if he wants to be an international player. But I can't see on earth how you can say he didn't play well.
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Weimann works hard but what does he actually offer us at the moment? Think he's suffering lowton season trouble.
We cannot keep playing Westwood and kea in the same side, it has to be one or the other. It midfield is shockingly uncreative.
It's games like today where u can see why we were all (fans) wanting that number 10 in the summer. We have no one who can open a defence
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lambert is a useless turd and I feel much better for articulating that emotion
Log out Matt. Just log out.
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We're fucked when benteke goes in jan
I would say August. With the money he can then buy 2 more Kozaks! YAAAAAY!
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Two men arrested for throwing the flare at the linesman.
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We do desperately need to start buying a couple of £8-£12 million players each window now. We have the basis of a solid squad, but we need to start adding quality.
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We do desperately need to start buying a couple of £8-£12 million players each window now. We have the basis of a solid squad, but we need to start adding quality.
i think you'll be disappointed if you want that sort of investment.
We clearly need to buy better players than those we have, but the days of that sort of investment are over.
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I thought that was poor to be honest. Spurs weren't that good, but they didn't need to be.
I don't think Delph had that good a game really. Sure he worked hard, but his touch and passing were pretty bad.
We did improve slightly after Benteke came on, but that wasn't difficult considering how woeful Kozak was.
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Apart from our other shortcomings we seem to lack someone who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck, up the tempo and drive the team forward, a Gerrard type I suppose. Too many neat little lightweight players and no-one with a bit of up and at em. It's a l a bit tippy-tappy and they don't seem sure what they are trying to do.
Luna is a decent footballer but some of his defending is massively sub-standard and a liability. In every game I've watched so far he's played at least one pass square across the line straight to an opponent. It's schoolboy error stuff.
Gabby and Weimann lack the technique and composure to effectively play the roles they are playing when the game is tight.
I didn't think Spurs looked anything special until we tired after the second goal. First goal was a fluke and second was poor defending by Westwood losing the ball and then losing Soldado.
Clever substitution by ABV just as we were having a good spell and getting on top - it stopped the game for a few minutes and we never got the momentum back.
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Lets get some changes for the everton game -
Guzan
Lowton. Clark. Vlaar. Luna
Bacuna Delph. Sylla Tonev
Gabby benteke
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Weimann works hard but what does he actually offer us at the moment? Think he's suffering lowton season trouble.
We cannot keep playing Westwood and kea in the same side, it has to be one or the other. It midfield is shockingly uncreative.
It's games like today where u can see why we were all (fans) wanting that number 10 in the summer. We have no one who can open a defence
I am deeply unconvinced by KEA. Flatters to deceive. He'll have a decent game then go missing for the next five.
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I come to terms long time ago that we just don't have the quality of players anymore. 70% of the squad is average, 20% are above average and the final 10% is world class. Lambert is also tactically inept.
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Like the Hull and Newcastle game, it was poor in terms of invention, crisp passing etc.
But I think Delph could, and I say could, be MOTM on almost every game so far!?
I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
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Weimann works hard but what does he actually offer us at the moment? Think he's suffering lowton season trouble.
We cannot keep playing Westwood and kea in the same side, it has to be one or the other. It midfield is shockingly uncreative.
It's games like today where u can see why we were all (fans) wanting that number 10 in the summer. We have no one who can open a defence
I am deeply unconvinced by KEA. Flatters to deceive. He'll have a decent game then go missing for the next five.
KEA is garbage. Sylla all day and night.
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
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I come to terms long time ago that we just don't have the quality of players anymore. 70% of the squad is average, 20% are above average and the final 10% is world class. Lambert is also tactically inept.
I think its a bit generous to suggest there's no one in the squad below average.
Also Benteke isn't 10% of the squad
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We do desperately need to start buying a couple of £8-£12 million players each window now. We have the basis of a solid squad, but we need to start adding quality.
i think you'll be disappointed if you want that sort of investment.
We clearly need to buy better players than those we have, but the days of that sort of investment are over.
I don't it's unrealistic given the sort of money available from TV to expect us to spend around £20 million each summer. We can't have been that far off that this year, but it's spread across more players.
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Apart from our other shortcomings we seem to lack someone who can grab the game by the scruff of the neck, up the tempo and drive the team forward, a Gerrard type I suppose. Too many neat little lightweight players and no-one with a bit of up and at em. It's a l a bit tippy-tappy and they don't seem sure what they are trying to do.
Luna is a decent footballer but some of his defending is massively sub-standard and a liability. In every game I've watched so far he's played at least one pass square across the line straight to an opponent. It's schoolboy error stuff.
Gabby and Weimann lack the technique and composure to effectively play the roles they are playing when the game is tight.
I didn't think Spurs looked anything special until we tired after the second goal. First goal was a fluke and second was poor defending by Westwood losing the ball and then losing Soldado.
Clever substitution by ABV just as we were having a good spell and getting on top - it stopped the game for a few minutes and we never got the momentum back.
Everybody and their mum new this last season. Lambert decided to waste 7m on a dud striker instead of getting in that type of player. Who spends 7m on a guy with a poor goal ratio when Finnbogason is still banging them in for fun.
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Its a great shame that okore got that injury as he and Vlaar would have been pretty solid i feel this season , really cannot see by sylla is not in the team , and Weimann needs a spell on the bench - lets see what tonev can do , or helenius who impressed me in pre season with a couple of superb assists .
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
Its called banter...is that too much for here after what I've seen written?
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I come to terms long time ago that we just don't have the quality of players anymore. 70% of the squad is average, 20% are above average and the final 10% is world class. Lambert is also tactically inept.
I think its a bit generous to suggest there's no one in the squad below average.
Also Benteke isn't 10% of the squad
Benteke and Guzan are the stand out players for me , way ahead of the rest.
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Tonev is starting to look better as well.
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
Its called banter...is that too much for here after what I've seen written?
It's called childish and annoying, so knock it on the head.
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We're fucked when benteke goes in jan
Oh do pack it in, it's tiresome.
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I come to terms long time ago that we just don't have the quality of players anymore. 70% of the squad is average, 20% are above average and the final 10% is world class. Lambert is also tactically inept.
I think its a bit generous to suggest there's no one in the squad below average.
Also Benteke isn't 10% of the squad
Benteke and Guzan are the stand out players for me , way ahead of the rest.
I was counting the above two.
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We're fucked when benteke goes in jan
Oh do pack it in, it's tiresome.
Not a cat in hells chance of benteke going before the World Cup finals - it would be ludicrous .
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We're still gonna finish 10th
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
Its called banter...is that too much for here after what I've seen written?
It's called childish and annoying, so knock it on the head.
I don't know what you're referring to?
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
Its called banter...is that too much for here after what I've seen written?
It's called childish and annoying, so knock it on the head.
I don't know what you're referring to?
Your shitty posts
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We're still gonna finish 10th
I see no reason why we shouldn't aim for that at least - we have played 5 of the top teams already and clearly improved from last season - what we need now is to pick up points against the mid table and lower teams.
Disappointing day yes, but certainly not any reason to be too downhearted so far this season.
The home form is a worry and if we can sort that we will be much happier.
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If benteke puts that first header away we might just have got away with. Another referee might have also have penalised solados shove on westwood but the truth is once again we just arent good enough at this level. I do think we will have enough to stay up but not without some more set backs. For me its about the quality of any new year recruits. For me the money spent on kozak would have been better in the pot.
Not suicidal but looking forward to better days. UTV
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"We pick ourselves up and go again" google that ;)
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I expect someone ( my best bud ) to comment on this and tell me I'm being suicidal!
You need to knock this shit on the head right now, or you'll be taking a break.
Give it a rest, it's boring and nobody wants to see it moved from the match thread to the post match.
Its called banter...is that too much for here after what I've seen written?
It's called childish and annoying, so knock it on the head.
I don't know what you're referring to?
You knew what I meant in your previous reply.
I tried warning you, and asked you nicely. Take seven days off to think about it.
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A lot of effort but too many players who just aren't technically up to it and of the others only Guzan and Delph played well. The lack of creativity from midfield is a worry.
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I come to terms long time ago that we just don't have the quality of players anymore. 70% of the squad is average, 20% are above average and the final 10% is world class. Lambert is also tactically inept.
I think its a bit generous to suggest there's no one in the squad below average.
Also Benteke isn't 10% of the squad
Benteke and Guzan are the stand out players for me , way ahead of the rest.
I was counting the above two.
I think Guzan's a good keeper. Not world class though.
I'd say there's a few who are well below average. Baker, KEA, Albrighton, Kozak (From what he's shown so far) to name some examples
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
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It's not so much whether we have or don't have players who could be called world class (although, really? World class?), it's how many players we have who are just not very impressive.
One or two players in during the summer, players who were better than those we have - and that doesn't have to mean spending 30m on a player, there are lots of intermediate points between the class of player we have and those players - are what i think would have improved us considerably.
Instead, I suspect we're going to have another up and down season. That's not necessarily bad, it isn't boring, it keeps you on your toes etc etc, but will we be, come the end of the season, much better off than last year?
I'm not convinced. That is not to say I've lost belief in Lambert, I haven't, i like lots of things about him. it's more that I am unconvinced of his ability to turn a bunch of cheap signings into something significantly better than what we already had.
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We're better than last season but quite a way off where most of us would like to see us particularly at VP. We need to move on from survival to something better but we were poor today and Spurs didn't have to try too hard.
Couple of seasons ago at VP one of the chants from the other fans at a game (QPR/Fulham?) was "You're not famous anymore" which is clearly gramatically incorrect but I get what they meant. I lived in London for nearly 25 years and that is the general view of Villa from most football supporters I know down there. A sleeping lion no doubt but sleeping nonetheless.
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Poor tactics by PL IMO. He said in the Mail that he was planning nothing special to cope with Townsend and he paid the penalty.
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I also want to add that I hope that Spurs prick gets the book thrown at him, in the literal sense as well, when he roles up bright and ealry at the Mags tomorrow morning.
Classless fucking shite Tottenham. Always have been.
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There were so many more players worthy of getting lamped by Delph than Townsend. Phil Dowd for one.
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Spurs aren't that good and we aren't that bad.
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I know that every defeat is Armageddon, but I thought that was a perfectly honourable defeat. The McLeish comparisons are demented: we pressed them from the first minute to the last, never became defeatist and were never uncompetitive.
Good things: Luna may have had a poor game against a terrific player in terrific form, but was actually really bright in attack; Delph faded late on and gave a few loose passes away, but dribbled like he was made of rubber for most of the game; Kozak has a brain in his head to make up for his other deficiencies, but Benteke just being on the pitch seemed to invigorate the players; Weimann and Gabby were direct and threatening (apart from their shooting), and Tonev had his best time in a Villa shirt so far. Oh, and we might just have the best keeper in the league.
Less good things: we clearly miss both Clark and Okore, and Baker wasn't great; KEA was a real nuisance in the first half but became somewhat listless, and Westwood had a somewhat anonymous game (Sylla was a bit sloppy when he came on); Bacuna's positioning was fairly nonexistent, though his energy and powerful dribbling were admirable; Weimann especially can't really shoot.
But most of all, we need a creative midfielder of the type of which Spurs have a surplus. No Eriksen, no Lamela, ten minutes of Dembele and that's totally fine by them. They're a much better side than us but we were never out of the game despite their superiority. We're a safe, up-and-down middling team who are generally more entertaining than we need to be, and that's all fine by me.
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Pretty much a standard Villa Park performance there (so pretty bad).
That said, I think we would've got something if Benteke had started, but it was probably sensible not to risk him for the whole game.
If he was fit enough to play most of the second half, why not play him from the start? We battled well first half but showed no real goal threat.
I feel sorry for Kozak, the hoofs up front to him, no support and he's expected to hold up the ball. Pointless.
Weimann has been poor all season, yes he gives his all but he'll never reach his potential if he's stuck out on the wing all day. It's not as if he's fast. He once moved inside and narrowly missed the target from our best move of the first half.
Gabby had a tough one against probably the only player in the league faster than him in Walker, so tried to cut inside when possible. Only problem was, there were no options for him from our midfield, Kozak was surrounded and Weimann was signing autographs by the touchline.
Our midfield battled well and tried to close down everything but their passing is still poor and offered nothing to the attack.
Luna had a tough day defensively but then when we play so narrow we invite teams with acres of space to use the wings.
Vlaar had a decent game by his standards but the central defence are so easily torn apart. You could see the panic set in leading up to the first goal, we were all over the shop and Spurs had three players in and around the six yard box. Shocking defending.
Whoever suggested Tonev should be considered for the next game needs reminding that apart from running well with the ball, he does absolutely nothing with it except shoot, always off target. Maybe come April he'll force a goalkeeper into a save as his shooting is improving, today's efforts were a good few yards in from the corner flag. I guess that counts as an improvement.
Benteke I really worry about. He must be thinking WTF am I doing here. I really hope he doesn't lose interest otherwise we really will be in the brown stuff.
Lambert needs to face up to the fact his tactics are very limiting and he needs to find another way for us to play. I predicted a scoreless draw at Hull and a 2-0 defeat today. Not rocket science, just a very predictable Aston Villa side.
Apart from a few rare glimpses of quality, you're right, it was another typical Villa Park performance.
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God we are so depressing and predictable to watch at Villa Park, no idea if the play is infront of us.
In fairness the performance wasn't that bad today, I didn't think there was anything in the first half and didn't think Spurs were that great but it just shows why we don't win many home games at all.
Was thinking on the way back to the car right back to the Spurs home game on boxing day. I think we've played 15 league games in that period and we've incredibly conceded the first goal in 10 of those games.
It stands to reason if you keep falling behind in home games you'll find it very difficult to engineer winning positions unless you get a quick response.
Of course there are freak second halves like Man. City and Sunderland you get from time to time but generally our home games just are the same endless narrative, we start off at a snail pace which allows the opposition to settle in and pass the ball around, we go a goal down, there's a rally at the start of the second half which leaves you wondering why we can't start the game like that and we'll then concede a second against the run of play which kills the game off.
We need to see much better against Everton which will be another tough home game. No Kozak please, I'd put Sylla in the middle as I think we need more energy and drive in the centre and I'm not sure how much longer we can preserve with playing both Gabby and Weimann both at home, Tonev looked quite lively in his cameo so I'd be tempted to throw him in as a wildcard against Everton.
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I must have watched a different game... Never expected to win then as the game went on felt we could nick it...
didn't take our chances but thought Delph, bacuna, vlaar, Westwood and guzan all played well
Gabby, wiemann, baker. El ahmadi all did ok
Only one for me was Kodak, can't see him cutting it
But we gave good account of ourselves and I'm positive about the season!
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There is a very good article in H&V which sums up where we are; not good enough to compete consistently with the top six, but capable of dishing out a walloping when needed and nobody will be shocked when we finish 10th.
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I can't remember their keeper making a save.
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I can't remember their keeper making a save.
I think it was one save for him, which was Tonev's shot straight at him. And Westwood's free kick in the first half. Not a whole lot really.
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I can, from Tonev's only shot.
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Couple of seasons ago at VP one of the chants from the other fans at a game (QPR/Fulham?) was "You're not famous anymore" which is clearly gramatically incorrect but I get what they meant. I lived in London for nearly 25 years and that is the general view of Villa from most football supporters I know down there. A sleeping lion no doubt but sleeping nonetheless.
What on earth did they think of Chelsea prior to the 90's?
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There were so many more players worthy of getting lamped by Delph than Townsend. Phil Dowd for one.
If Delph is going to take a yellow for trying to crock their best player I'd rather he did it in the first minute minute rather than the last one.
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I really dont much like Spurs. I dont much like losing to them. We were not spanked though. Oh well, onwards.
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There is a very good article in H&V which sums up where we are; not good enough to compete consistently with the top six, but capable of dishing out a walloping when needed and nobody will be shocked when we finish 10th.
I'd agree with that , we are not good enough for the top 6 but too good for the bottom 6 - there are a few teams from 7th to 14th who are all pretty close and we could finish in the top 10 from what I've seen this season .
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Just got back. What I took from that game.
1. Kozak was bordering on useless.
2. Kozak is far too slow. You can be slow but you need to be incredibly intelligent, which he isn't.
3. When will Lambert learn that KEA and Westy are too similar? I think 'aah shit' every time i see them both starting.
4. Weimann - What do we want, quality or work rate?
5. I know people point out just how much better the Spurs squad (which is clear), but I don't care who we are against I expect us to create more.
Don't take what I said about Kozak as writing him off, I'm not at all. Just going by what I saw today.
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I also want to add that I hope that Spurs prick gets the book thrown at him, in the literal sense as well, when he roles up bright and ealry at the Mags tomorrow morning.
Classless fucking shite Tottenham. Always have been.
I had to put up with a pub full of them today. Well, not quite, but several of the tossers. Some fat thick cockney spent the whole game sat in front of me talking about Spurs formation and their upcoming games whilst patronising us with comments like 'they're not bad, Villa'. God, we were woeful and so utterly boring to watch. I can take it, just about, that Spurs have spent X million pounds more than us and you get what you pay for etc, but just not to even try or go for it is inexcusable. I thought we were pitiful quite honestly
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Another horrible defeat at home. Absolutely sick to death of it. Lots of huff and puff from our players but very little technical ability and it shows. We look like a lower league team drawn against a PL club in the cup in games against most of the top half.
Also our lack of width is painful to watch. Every time Tottenham got the ball out wide we were in trouble yet in the few times we managed it the player was left on his own and inivitabley lost possession.
I'd love to know what long term plans (if any) Lerner has for the club.
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There were so many more players worthy of getting lamped by Delph than Townsend. Phil Dowd for one.
If Delph is going to take a yellow for trying to crock their best player I'd rather he did it in the first minute minute rather than the last one.
He must be close to a ban now??
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There were so many more players worthy of getting lamped by Delph than Townsend. Phil Dowd for one.
If Delph is going to take a yellow for trying to crock their best player I'd rather he did it in the first minute minute rather than the last one.
He must be close to a ban now??
One more yellow required i believe.
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Spurs deserved the win, and we gave a decent account of ourselves. Good to see Benteke back.
But I can I take this opportunity to say how much I find the presence of Phil Dowd at Villa Park distasteful in the extreme. He should be banned.
He is indeed a cxxt!
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We have plaued the top three in Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal; won two, should have got a point in the other.
We have played two sides who will finish between 4th-6th, lost both, should have got a point in at least one of them.
We have then played a mid-table Newcastle, where we ruddy awful and two of the bottom six away from home where we have had a good points return.
10th. All day long, until Benteke goes and we get to buy three or four quality players, as Spurs have, off the back of one sale.
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Due to the lack of finance and no chance of that situation improving we will have another relegation struggle on our hands more than likely.
Too many not up to the standard of even the clubs below the top six. Today I thought Spurs were about the same level as us but took two chances. Did we have a serious chance..no.
Lambert may not be a tactical genius but he is doing his best.
We need quality but there is no sign of that happening. Benteke,Delph,and Guzan have got that quality but no one else Im afraid.
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No point getting too melodramatic about losing to a team who were better than us last season and spent £100m over the summer.
A few thoughts:
Kozak looked woeful. He doesn't appear to be able to win headers, he's slower than any striker I've seen in a long time and considering his size, the ease with which he's brushed off the ball is embarrassing. I truly hope he comes good but I'm not impressed so far.
Having Benteke on the pitch changed everything. The fans found their voice, the Villa players found an extra burst of energy and the Spurs players seemed to panic. And all this before Benteke had even touched the ball!
Bacuna looks better every time I see him. I'd like to see him and Lowton down that right hand side and take El Ahmadi out (but not against Everton's midfield!).
Phil Dowd really is poor isn't he.
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Due to the lack of finance and no chance of that situation improving we will have another relegation struggle on our hands more than likely.
Too many not up to the standard of even the clubs below the top six. Today I thought Spurs were about the same level as us but took two chances. Did we have a serious chance..no.
Lambert may not be a tactical genius but he is doing his best.
We need quality but there is no sign of that happening. Benteke,Delph,and Guzan have got that quality but no one else Im afraid.
That's just it, I can't remember a single decent attempt on goal from us today. It just isn't good enough.
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Spurs deserved the win, and we gave a decent account of ourselves. Good to see Benteke back.
But I can I take this opportunity to say how much I find the presence of Phil Dowd at Villa Park distasteful in the extreme. He should be banned.
He is indeed a cxxt!
I couldn't believe he let the blatant tug on Gabby in the first five minutes go without a caution. It was cynical and Gabby could have been through and past the covering defender. But I didn't really see much wrong from him today which was actually shocking.
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Relegation struggle? Turn it in.
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Another thing, I can't be the only one who is sick to the back teeth of seeing away fans spilling onto our pitch in delight so often these days. Lerner should open his wallet just for that reason alone. We lose way too many home games. It's embarrassing.
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When will an opposition keeper win MOM? We never seem to work an opposition keeper.
The result was no surprise and you spend money and get quality. Desperately missing a creative midfielder!
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Bacuna playing very well. Do think him in front of Lowton is worth a shout. Would be a mix between width and stability
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Spurs deserved win.
When Benteke came on, it gave the whole team a lift and I thought an equaliser looked on the cards.
Their second goal killed us off completely and it could've been a bigger defeat. Two great saves from Guzan.
Delph played well (though over did it at times - trying to do too much and got his obligatory yellow card for stupid tackle).
Phil Dowd is a extremely poor referee. It can't be just our games he does it in (if it is, then we're incedibly unlucky), so it begs the question why is he still allowed to ref?
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Ad@m has it nailed down; we lost to a team who were better than us last season by some distance and who have spent another £100 million. How are you supposed to compete with that on a regular basis?
Roll on December when we play mid-table at best dross like Fulham, Palace and Man United. I would love to have seen how many points one of the Sky luvies would have had after our bloody start.
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Another thing, I can't be the only one who is sick to the back teeth of seeing away fans spilling onto our pitch in delight so often these days.
Have to agree, that is becoming A Thing.
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We do desperately need to start buying a couple of £8-£12 million players each window now. We have the basis of a solid squad, but we need to start adding quality.
i think you'll be disappointed if you want that sort of investment.
We clearly need to buy better players than those we have, but the days of that sort of investment are over.
How much was Kozak? I ask because it doesn't say on wiki.. I think that money should have been saved and spent in January on a decent midfielder, I think £8m for a midfielder is possible it's just Lambert doesn't spend big. The lack of creativity is a very big worry.
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I take my hat off to the lady (yes down graded now) after this comment in pre match!
Susanna Reid has backed spurs to win 2-0
Slag
porcelain bitch no personality.
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Another thing, I can't be the only one who is sick to the back teeth of seeing away fans spilling onto our pitch in delight so often these days.
Have to agree, that is becoming A Thing.
I hate them being close to the touchline. I think we should restrict them to the upper tier.
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Kozak looked woeful. He doesn't appear to be able to win headers, he's slower than any striker I've seen in a long time and considering his size, the ease with which he's brushed off the ball is embarrassing. I truly hope he comes good but I'm not impressed so far.
This for me. Due to illness and holiday, this was my first live viewing of him. When Benteke was first starting, you could see the quality he possessed even though he was very raw. But with Kozak, there doesn't seem to be anything. His flick ons were awful, passing awful, reactions slow and was pushed off the ball very easily. Benteke showed in the first 5 mins what Kozak doesn't have a fraction of. It should have been a half time changeover, instead fans chanted for his introduction which probably wouldn't help with any confidence Kozak has. The other problem with playing Kozak is we hoof more then when Benteke is on.
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Spurs deserved the win, and we gave a decent account of ourselves. Good to see Benteke back.
But I can I take this opportunity to say how much I find the presence of Phil Dowd at Villa Park distasteful in the extreme. He should be banned.
He is indeed a cxxt!
I couldn't believe he let the blatant tug on Gabby in the first five minutes go without a caution. It was cynical and Gabby could have been through and past the covering defender. But I didn't really see much wrong from him today which was actually shocking.
Agreed again; that should have been a booking, but Westwood was lucky not to have seen a red. Not much wrong with Dowd today IMO.
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Bacuna playing very well. Do think him in front of Lowton is worth a shout. Would be a mix between width and stability
Yep in place of either kea or Westwood - need to add some width to our game and creativity in midfield.
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The narrow formation is a nightmare, it didn't work last season and it sure won't work in 2013/14 or ever. Just hope it doesn't take lambert til February again to realise the error of his ways.
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The other problem with playing Kozak is we hoof more then when Benteke is on.
We really don't, it just looks like we do because Kozak invariably loses us the ball whilst Benteke generally wins the ball and often brings it down.
I'm no fan of Bowery but at the moment I'd rather have him up front than Kozak.
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Another thing, I can't be the only one who is sick to the back teeth of seeing away fans spilling onto our pitch in delight so often these days.
Have to agree, that is becoming A Thing.
I hate them being close to the touchline. I think we should restrict them to the upper tier.
But they've been there for a number of seasons now but it wasn't an issue till we become an absolute abomination at home. Give us a decent team and it'll soon stop being an issue.
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If we play a narrow formation, we desperately need a creative midfielder and then it might work.
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Paul Lambert gives his opinion.
Paul Lambert felt Villa were well in the game and on course for something after a stirring second half fightback - only to be undone by a clincher for Tottenham.
Boss Lambert was more than happy with the effort and application of his team in the tough encounter with the title-chasers.
He felt Villa were very much in the ascendancy after the break - with Tottenham leading 1-0 at that stage - and on course for an equaliser.
But Roberto Soldado doubled the advantage for the visitors as Andre Villas-Boas's men left B6 with all three points.
Lambert said: "I didn't think there was much in it. The last couple of times Spurs have come here and left with a pretty convincing result. But today it was a different game.
"There wasn't much in the first half and then we lost a goal when we were attacking. I think it's a cross and everyone has missed it.
"In the second half I thought we were in the ascendancy and looked like a team who was going to get it back.
"Christian had a chance with the header. It might have gone in on another day. Then we lost a goal.
"Sometimes you come away from a game knowing you haven't given it a go but I can't fault the lads for the way they went about it.
"Brad only had two saves in the whole game.
"I thought we looked the most likely second half. Everything was ready. We were in the ascendancy. We had a lot of the ball. But the second goal was disappointing."
Lambert also revealed he was never tempted to start with Christian Benteke, due to the lack of training in the build-up to the big match.
He added: "Christian has trained four days in month. It's unfair on him to expect him to right in from the beginning.
"He has only trained a couple of days with us and the same with Belgium.
"It was not enough to throw him into that magnitude of game. Plus I am happy with Libor. It was never an option.
"But he got half-and-hour and it will do him the world of good."
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If we play a narrow formation, we desperately need a creative midfielder and then it might work.
Our formation is horrible. It's so narrow, yet whenever we do manage to get a player in a good position out wide we abandon him so he's left with 2 or 3 opposition players who surround and regain possession.
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I think he's right that it was pretty even at half time. What worries me is that he doesn't seem to be aware of how badly we struggle to create chances.
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The best way i could sum that performance up is that we continue to look like a lower league side playing against a PL team in a cup match. By that i mean it's all about graft and effort, huff and puff rather than any quality on the ball.
I don't know how anyone can enjoy watching us play these days, where is the football ?
The lack of actual quality in midfield (especially) is bewildering. There's no craft/guile or threat from the middle at all, Delph continues to get plaudits but all he really does is run around a lot. When there's a key pass to be made, or a need for a midfielder to burst forward to help the attack what exactly does he offer ?. And he's the best one we've got ... Add on to that our complete lack of width and it pretty much tells you where our problems lie.
I don't know what's happened to Weimann, but he looks awful compared to last season so far this. And i know Kozak has only been here 5 minutes but so far i've seen absolutely nothing from him to make sense of his signing
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Lambert is deluded, but what else can he say to the media.
We continually sit back n the first half of home games, and then start playing when the opposition score. How about, having a go from the off.
I dont mind losing, I just want to have a go, particularly at home
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The best way i could sum that performance up is that we continue to look like a lower league side playing against a PL team in a cup match. By that i mean it's all about graft and effort, huff and puff rather than any quality on the ball.
I don't know how anyone can enjoy watching us play these days, where is the football ?
The lack of actual quality in midfield (especially) is bewildering. There's no craft/guile or threat from the middle at all, Delph continues to get plaudits but all he really does is run around a lot. When there's a key pass to be made, or a need for a midfielder to burst forward to help the attack what exactly does he offer ?. And he's the best one we've got ... Add on to that our complete lack of width and it pretty much tells you where our problems lie.
I don't know what's happened to Weimann, but he looks awful compared to last season so far this. And i know Kozak has only been here 5 minutes but so far i've seen absolutely nothing from him to make sense of his signing
I think Delph makes the runs and drives the team forward when he has the ball, but it's the other players that don't go with him to give him the option to pass the ball to them. If he played for a better team, he'd be a better player for it.
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I think he's right that it was pretty even at half time. What worries me is that he doesn't seem to be aware of how badly we struggle to create chances.
Also he says Guzan made only two saves but how many saves of quality did we force from lloris?
I thought spurs were good value for the 2-0 win unfortunately.
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The best way i could sum that performance up is that we continue to look like a lower league side playing against a PL team in a cup match. By that i mean it's all about graft and effort, huff and puff rather than any quality on the ball.
I don't know how anyone can enjoy watching us play these days, where is the football ?
The lack of actual quality in midfield (especially) is bewildering. There's no craft/guile or threat from the middle at all, Delph continues to get plaudits but all he really does is run around a lot. When there's a key pass to be made, or a need for a midfielder to burst forward to help the attack what exactly does he offer ?. And he's the best one we've got ... Add on to that our complete lack of width and it pretty much tells you where our problems lie.
I don't know what's happened to Weimann, but he looks awful compared to last season so far this. And i know Kozak has only been here 5 minutes but so far i've seen absolutely nothing from him to make sense of his signing
Agree 100%.
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Lambert is deluded, but what else can he say to the media.
We continually sit back n the first half of home games, and then start playing when the opposition score. How about, having a go from the off.
I thought we looked better in the first half than the second apart from the ten minutes after Benteke can on.
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They got a bit of luck with the first goal with the ball evading everyone, but their second was a well worked goal after Westwood had messed up. We harassed them well during the first half but only really looked like getting something from the game in a ten minute spell after Benteke came on, and the fact that their keeper only had one decent save to make all game speaks volumes.
Oh - and Phil Dowd really is a cheating cnut - consistently inconsistent decisions, and we should have had a blatant free kick on the edge of the box towards the end. Maybe true to form he thought it was inside the box and didn't want to give us a penalty and them a red card. Realistically it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game but just how much longer do we have to put up with this clown ruining games of football
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I thought Dowd was very generous in not sending off Westwood. It was a stupid challenge.
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We are at best mid table and that shows when we play the top six sides. Man City was a bit of a freak I think. Quality comes to the surface and Spurs have very good players sadly.
I thought Delph did well. He looks class when he goes past players. Bacuna looks a find but Sylla must play . Can't understand that.
My issue with the summer signings from what I can see is that he's improved the squad but not the team. For all the activity in the summer, the first 11 is not much better which is what you get when you buy numbers - see Sunderland.
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Well got drenched walking from car to the the Park and had no jacket!
On the match other than that it hurts that Spurs have won again and so far we have suffered at home this season it wasn't too bad. Two bad mistakes by Gabby for the first and Ashley for the second cost us dearly. OK they were dangerous but only at 2-0 when we were chasing the game. Prior to that we gave them as good as as we got. Football games change on little things. Westwood takes a good freekick it eludes everyone and keeper just about manages to get to it and rebound lands kindly for them and its cleared. A few minutes later same thing for them but this time Townsend's cross ends up in the back of the net.
Please with some individual performances notably the two fullbacks and Delph and pleased that Benteke is back.
Not sure about both Weimann and Gabby. Maybe Tonev should be given an extended run.
On the whole though nothing to worry about too much.
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
In the summer when i was questioning about giving the new guys a bumper pay deal and a new contract i got shot down. Most of them are justifying that new contract now aren't they. Westy has been utter garbage, Lowton can't even get a game, Weimann looks lost every game, Clark's injury prone and a liability, Baker is getting slower and slower, who else?
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
In the summer when i was questioning about giving the new guys a bumper pay deal and a new contract i got shot down. Most of them are justifying that new contract now aren't they. Westy has been utter garbage, Lowton can't even get a game, Weimann looks lost every game, Clark's injury prone and a liability, Baker is getting slower and slower, who else?
Clark has been far from a liability this season, since he came in he's been excellent alongside Vlaar. Baker just isn't very good.
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I doubt the loss of form for Westwood, Andi and Lowton has anything to do with a lack of effort, which is what you are suggesting with the "they have more money, they cannot be arsed" comment. You reward improvement.
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
In the summer when i was questioning about giving the new guys a bumper pay deal and a new contract i got shot down. Most of them are justifying that new contract now aren't they. Westy has been utter garbage, Lowton can't even get a game, Weimann looks lost every game, Clark's injury prone and a liability, Baker is getting slower and slower, who else?
Are you suggesting we should have allowed Weimann to leave on a free?
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Normally I'd be pissed off at a home defeat like this but actually I'm not. To be honest, that's only because I think I was mentally prepared for it. I totally expected us to be out-thought, outplayed and well beaten.
Pure and simple, they are so far ahead of us these days the ghost of the Premiership season 2007/8 is spinning in its DVD case.
Trying to be positive, we're closer to them now than we were at any time last season and the only way we were going to beat them today was in a smash and grab raid - Man City style. You can't expect that to come off every week.
On the critical side, I'd say although Delph was probably our best player, I thought he had his worst game this season. Our attacking play needs a lot of work...or some serious activity this January. We have no-one clever enough to unlock a defence, let alone an attacker who can take on and beat his man like Townsend did for them.
Kozak, I'm afraid is looking like a waste of money, sluggish not only of foot but also of mind. A poor mans Cascarino at best.
And a special round of fucks for Ashley Westwood - the worst corner at Villa Park since JPA all those years ago? Not to mention being at fault for both goals. Poor closing down of Townsend for the first and losing possession for the second. Although he rallied at times, I cant help but think he finds favour only because of where he came from and his associated fee. If he had cost 10million quid we'd be on his back by now. The man is either good enough or he isn't.
For me, KEA and AW do the same job and shouldn't be played together.
And if possible, shouldn't be played at all because I think Yacouba Sylla will be able to do that job on his own eventually.
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We will learn a bit more about how good or poor we are over the next 3 games. Everton, west ham and Cardiff. All winnable, all loseable . I'm thinking 5 points would be a good return.
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Sadly, very easily outclassed by a Spurs side not close to their best. Men vs boys.
There was a big gulf in ability. They had players who could control a ball tightly, pass it accurately and shift the tempo up a level while regaining composure. When we up the tempo we shift to 100mph without much precision. Occasionally it might pay off, but we don't have the ability to play quick, precise passing over the course of a match.
For me Delph, Luna and Vlaar played pretty well. Bacuna was okay but suspect defensively (though still less suspect than Lowton). Delph was fantastic at times but overdoes it sometimes. He needs to calm himself down a bit. Not just rash challenges but when he breaks away with the ball. Sometimes he wants to just shift up to top gear and force a pass, or he'll rush controlling the ball and lose it. His touch and passing need to improve, or he needs to keep it more simple. He's doing brilliantly at the moment. It can go one of two ways. He'll become a top Villa midfielder, or he'll become another Reo-Coker.
Weimann put in a great shift but was poor in front of goal. He needs taking out the side out the moment. It's no exaggeration to say that he's fluffed a good couple of dozen chances in the opening 8 games. He's wasting good opportunities and is having no luck at all. I'd hoped the Man City goal would turn it around for him, but not so.
Gabby is Gabby. Lightening quick, but today we saw the difference between a potentially top level player in Townsend, and someone like Gabby who'll never quite step up to another level. When Townsend runs with the ball it stays close to him and he can run at pace in full control of the ball. There's also a more consistent, quality end product too. With our Gab it's hit and miss. He's still essential to our game at the moment, but we need to keep him running on the flanks more. When he runs in field, requiring a tad more subtlety, he doesn't have the refined ball skills to do it. He can't do what he did against Arsenal every game. They weren't switched on that day.
Kozak. I like him. He worked hard today, but our service to him was woeful. All high balls. Now clearly this isn't his strength. He's actually pretty mediocre in the air. I don't think he won more than 3-4 headers today. Dawson mopped everything up. I mean he even struggled to get a header when he found himself free in space at one moment. He mistimed his jump and missed the ball. He was similarly dreadful in the air against Hull. For me, I look at Kozak and Helenius. Both well very tall. But neither's main strength is their aerial ability it seems. So why sign them? What's the point? We're justing hoofing it long to Kozak? I'd guess if Helenius played it would be the same? So if that's the case, why not just sign a big forward who is good in the air instead? Use these guys right, or they're gonna fail. Benteke came on and within 8 minutes had connected with more headers than Kozak managed in 60 minutes.
It's desperately clear though that we need better quality in midfield and out wide. Players who can run with the ball in control. Players who can control the ball in close quarters. Pick a pass.
Right now we're a team that's A+ for work-rate and effort, but the quality on the ball is pretty dire and there's a desperate lack of midfield guile.
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
In the summer when i was questioning about giving the new guys a bumper pay deal and a new contract i got shot down. Most of them are justifying that new contract now aren't they. Westy has been utter garbage, Lowton can't even get a game, Weimann looks lost every game, Clark's injury prone and a liability, Baker is getting slower and slower, who else?
Are you suggesting we should have allowed Weimann to leave on a free?
I think Weimann should be applauded that he allowed certain posters who would have moaned if we had let him go to now moan for offering the contract.
Reminded me of a person sat near me in the north. Today he moaned each time we kicked the ball back to Guzan and then moaned when Luna tried to turn and launch it blindly saying he should have played it back to Guzan. If he had done that he would have moaned about kicking the ball back. I've never heard one bit of praise come from the man since I have been in that seat. Unfortunately that can be repeated across the ground.
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Sad to say but Kozak looks like Zigic 2.0
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I cannot believe we have just lost our eighth game in a row. Fucking garbage. Oh hang on.
No way were Spurs two goals better than us. They were as wasteful in possession as we were and created as little as we did.
The two goals were soft, yet again! Why Baker didn't drop in for a simple nod away? What was Westwood doing for their second?
I think Westwood has been anonymous all season and he was equally poor today as he was against Hull. Sylla has got to start against Everton.
Time for Bennett to come back in I think. I know Townsend is a handful, but positionally he worries me.
Delph as good as ever, trying too hard at times. Gabby still not quite fit. Benteke should have burried his header from six yards.
What does Vertonghen have to do to get penalised at Villa Park? Andi though is another in the Westwood and Lowton bracket who just hasn't cut it so far this season. Time for him to join Lowton on the bench.
Everton up next is certainly winnable, but much like the start we have had, another difficult opponent.
In the summer when i was questioning about giving the new guys a bumper pay deal and a new contract i got shot down. Most of them are justifying that new contract now aren't they. Westy has been utter garbage, Lowton can't even get a game, Weimann looks lost every game, Clark's injury prone and a liability, Baker is getting slower and slower, who else?
Are you suggesting we should have allowed Weimann to leave on a free?
No. In Jan we could have done business, there's other better players out there you know it's a big world with lots of leagues to choose from.
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It's the fact that I take these defeats so easily now that actually disappoints me.
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Sad to say but Kozak looks like Zigic 2.0
Zigic wins headers though. ;)
I don't blame Kojak on this point it must be said. It's obviously not his strong point, but 80% of his service is being punted at his head. You'd think if he's losing most aerial battles we'd stop booting it up to him.
That said, his movement also must improve tenfold, and he's got to make the option to play to his feet easier for the team.
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Just got back. What I took from that game.
2. Kozak is far too slow. You can be slow but you need to be incredibly intelligent, which he isn't.
I agree, looked like he could hold the ball up ok but needs
to race Gabby to the car park every day.
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Normally I'd be pissed off at a home defeat like this but actually I'm not. To be honest, that's only because I think I was mentally prepared for it. I totally expected us to be out-thought, outplayed and well beaten.
Pure and simple, they are so far ahead of us these days the ghost of the Premiership season 2007/8 is spinning in its DVD case.
Trying to be positive, we're closer to them now than we were at any time last season and the only way we were going to beat them today was in a smash and grab raid - Man City style. You can't expect that to come off every week.
On the critical side, I'd say although Delph was probably our best player, I thought he had his worst game this season. Our attacking play needs a lot of work...or some serious activity this January. We have no-one clever enough to unlock a defence, let alone an attacker who can take on and beat his man like Townsend did for them.
Kozak, I'm afraid is looking like a waste of money, sluggish not only of foot but also of mind. A poor mans Cascarino at best.
And a special round of fucks for Ashley Westwood - the worst corner at Villa Park since JPA all those years ago? Not to mention being at fault for both goals. Poor closing down of Townsend for the first and losing possession for the second. Although he rallied at times, I cant help but think he finds favour only because of where he came from and his associated fee. If he had cost 10million quid we'd be on his back by now. The man is either good enough or he isn't.
For me, KEA and AW do the same job and shouldn't be played together.
And if possible, shouldn't be played at all because I think Yacouba Sylla will be able to do that job on his own eventually.
Ashley's corner was special. We now know why he likes to float the ball in. However I think we should still announce a starting 11 each match.
But there was no way they were £100million better then us. I wonder when Townsend will score a meant goal against us. Deflected effort last season, cross that went in this season.
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We have improved on last season and are a much tougher team to beat.
We are still, however, a long way off where we should be. We aren't comfortable with the ball against the majority of Premier League sides and for all our increased squad strength, still lack that bit of quality to come into a game and change it.
Also, I am surprised that Westwood hasn't been dropped. I thought that corner that drifted out of play in the first half was dreadful. Sylla needs to come in for him.
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We have improved on last season and are a much tougher team to beat.
We are still, however, a long way off where we should be. We aren't comfortable with the ball against the majority of Premier League sides and for all our increased squad strength, still lack that bit of quality to come into a game and change it.
Also, I am surprised that Westwood hasn't been dropped. I thought that corner that drifted out of play in the first half was dreadful. Sylla needs to come in for him.
I agree, and Westwood is developing a nasty habit of committing dangerous tackles.
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Well got drenched walking from car to the the Park and had no jacket!
On the match other than that it hurts that Spurs have won again and so far we have suffered at home this season it wasn't too bad. Two bad mistakes by Gabby for the first and Ashley for the second cost us dearly. OK they were dangerous but only at 2-0 when we were chasing the game. Prior to that we gave them as good as as we got. Football games change on little things. Westwood takes a good freekick it eludes everyone and keeper just about manages to get to it and rebound lands kindly for them and its cleared. A few minutes later same thing for them but this time Townsend's cross ends up in the back of the net.
Please with some individual performances notably the two fullbacks and Delph and pleased that Benteke is back.
Not sure about both Weimann and Gabby. Maybe Tonev should be given an extended run.
On the whole though nothing to worry about too much.
That's how I saw the game too. Thought Weimann and Gabby worked hard, Weimann's radar with shots was well off today. Thought we competed well until the second goal, I was fully expecting us to equalise up to that point. As others have posted, I am not sure about the midfield mix at the moment, I would much prefer to see Sylla in there. I feel my expectations are very low these days though, always expect to lose against the usual suspects from the top of the league.
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We have improved on last season and are a much tougher team to beat.
We are still, however, a long way off where we should be. We aren't comfortable with the ball against the majority of Premier League sides and for all our increased squad strength, still lack that bit of quality to come into a game and change it.
Also, I am surprised that Westwood hasn't been dropped. I thought that corner that drifted out of play in the first half was dreadful. Sylla needs to come in for him.
I agree, and Westwood is developing a nasty habit of committing dangerous tackles.
Yes. It's a shame because that aside he's looked better in the last couple of matches, in the first halves at least. But that nasty streak has to go. Between Delph, Gabby and Westy, we're looking a very dirty side at the moment.
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There's plenty to think we need to improve on but I think there are two indisputable points:
We've had the hardest start to the season I can ever remember. I feared we'd be really struggling at this point
We've done the same or better to identical fixtures in every one of our games this season
We've not been beaten out of sight in any league game
We clearly need to find a way to get on the front foot and create more at home. But that's been a problem for years, even when we were spending plenty of money under O'Neill.
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We have improved on last season and are a much tougher team to beat.
We are still, however, a long way off where we should be. We aren't comfortable with the ball against the majority of Premier League sides and for all our increased squad strength, still lack that bit of quality to come into a game and change it.
Also, I am surprised that Westwood hasn't been dropped. I thought that corner that drifted out of play in the first half was dreadful. Sylla needs to come in for him.
I agree, and Westwood is developing a nasty habit of committing dangerous tackles.
Yes, there have been a few bad tackles from him.
Part of me wants to see him as a Gareth Barry. Barry did have a couple of poor seasons a few years after he first broke through. Remember Gregory dropping him at one point, around 2001? But no matter how hard I try, I just can't see it that way. For a start, Westwood is older than Barry was at that stage and clearly lacks that level of quality. He needs to be put out of the team for a few weeks and slowly reintegrated the way he was last season.
Next summer it could be a case of simply needing an upgrade on him as at 23 years of age, it's not as though he's a teenage prodigy who needs to be trained up.
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Westwood really needs to start creating with his passing if he's going to play in the team with KEA as well.
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I think we've deliberately got nasty this season, to stop getting best like last year and because of our difficult opening fixtures
I really hope lambert has his eyes on the games after Everton, and has some plans to open up our game, start passing the ball better and get more on the front foot.
Lowton (quality on the ball and passing), bacuna (width and stability) Westwood (dictating rhythm) and potentially Tonev could have important roles to play.
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I can't remember their keeper making a save.
I think it was one save for him, which was Tonev's shot straight at him. And Westwood's free kick in the first half. Not a whole lot really.
If I remember rightly, Westwood's freekick was similar to spurs first goal. An inswinging ball to the far post, only their keeper saved it and ours didn't.
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A very similar match to the Liverpool game. I wouldn't mind so much if I actually felt we were having a go at these times, right from start of kick off it feels like we're going for counter-attack or damage limitation. One goal against from a sleepy Spurs and we're up against it. Depressingly, Spurs hardly to had to get out of 2nd gear and always looked likely to grab a 3rd on the break. Our formation just doesn't work at home, a lot of our players are technically poor and our style of play fairly one dimensional with our entire plan seemingly to just run at defenders or chase flick ons, lobs and headers. I don't think we have the midfield to actually play a passing buildup and Gabby, as much as I love him, has never regained that dangerous edge in front of goal that he showed for most of MON's reign. Jury still out on Kozak but he was incapable of holding up the ball today.
Still think we are miles better than last season and will be in a healthier position at the end of the season but cant stand us rolling over to these sides at Villa Park like we consistently do week in week out.
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I've not read the rest of this tread, so these are just my observations for what they're worth.
Generally, I thought we were outplayed by a very good side. I thought for a minute or two we might get something from the game when Benteke came on, when most of the team raised their game, but Spur's second put paid to that. Having said that, we lost by one fluke goal and one excellently worked goal.
I thought Kozak was poor, in fact it's hard to see at the moment what he might excel at in the future.
My main frustration though is the absence of movement off the ball, frequently leaving the player with the ball no options when looking to pass. That, along with some utterly woeful passing when team mates were free was very frustrating to watch. I feel sure that others will have highlighted the need for a creative midfielder and boy do we need someone, but unless we can move into spaces when we don't have the ball, he would be wasted anyway.
Positives for me were Delph's form although he was carded for a really stupid foul and Brad, who surely must be the best 'Keeper we've had for many years.
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Just got home,pritty tame performance today to say the least,never really looked like scoring and spurs were comftable. Another tough game coming up need to start creating more. Great to see Benteke back though!
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Westwood really needs to start creating with his passing if he's going to play in the team with KEA as well.
One or the other - not both , sylla should be in the team.
Regarding Kozak , I'd like to try him alongside benteke and see how that works , the lad has something but not as the focal part of a three man attack.
I wouldn't be adverse to bringing Lowton back in and pushing bacuna into midfield against everton , Weimann needs resting too , tonevs brief cameo was interesting too - I would be thinking about maybe going with a 4-4-2 against everton with a bit more width to our game.
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Oh, and what's the story with the new camera angle at Villa Park? Felt like I was standing on the sideline.
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Today was the first time Tonev looked quite useful, hopefully he's learning. What is going on with Helenius?
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The game was even until they scored they gained confidence and never looked a threat from there on. Couple of points, Weiman works hard no-one disputes that so does Westwood and Kea but hard work never replaces genuine skill and that is what they and the side are lacking.For me our home record is so bad because of Lamberts insistance on playing without genuine wingers, we are far too narrow and make it easy for opposition defences to close us down.Kozak will never replace Benteke better start looking for someone else now doesn't look good value at all. Felt sorry for Delph, the only midfielder with the skills we need , thought he tried too hard in the end and got caught a few times. We are not a terrible side but i think Lambert made a big mistake in the summer by not getting another player of Delphs quality in. Villa without Benteke has nightmare written all over it.
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I think the only real differences to the City game were that our half chances didn't go in this time.
Bacunas free kick, Weimanns snatch shot, Gabbys chance in the first five minutes, Benteke's header over the bar...
I don't think a draw would have flattered us all that much.
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I'm a believer in what Lambert is doing and I am praying hard the current set of signings has amongst that special talent. No club gets them all bang on. That said, and I accept our transfer policy last year and this, at some point the question needs to be asked -are we in this to win things or just to survive and be "competitive"? I'm all for building something but the next few windows needs to actually build on this and bring in players that move the needle so to speak. Players that are going to make a real difference and propel us forward and not sideways.
Today wasn't embarassing. It just revealed the gap that exists in those that will float in the middle and those that have aspirations of much more.
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Oh, and what's the story with the new camera angle at Villa Park? Felt like I was standing on the sideline.
It was like the old one pre-Doug Ellis Stand days.
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Spurs will be top 5 this season so we can't be too disheartened, last season was 0-4, now 0-2, next we will get 0-0 then in 2015/16 we win 2-0
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Today was the first time Tonev looked quite useful, hopefully he's learning. What is going on with Helenius?
I think helenius may be one for the future although in pre season he impressed me its some of his flicks and passes.
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Oh, and what's the story with the new camera angle at Villa Park? Felt like I was standing on the sideline.
It was like the old one pre-Doug Ellis Stand days.
Yeah I noticed that on the big screen then looked over and noticed the cameras were located in the middle of the two tiers. Never used to like the cameras in that position all those years ago. They're far too low.
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It's for the 3D innit.
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The game was even until they scored they gained confidence and never looked a threat from there on. Couple of points, Weiman works hard no-one disputes that so does Westwood and Kea but hard work never replaces genuine skill and that is what they and the side are lacking.For me our home record is so bad because of Lamberts insistance on playing without genuine wingers, we are far too narrow and make it easy for opposition defences to close us down.Kozak will never replace Benteke better start looking for someone else now doesn't look good value at all. Felt sorry for Delph, the only midfielder with the skills we need , thought he tried too hard in the end and got caught a few times. We are not a terrible side but i think Lambert made a big mistake in the summer by not getting another player of Delphs quality in. Villa without Benteke has nightmare written all over it.
I felt a little for Delph. He was the only one with any drive in midfield. He was getting more and more frustrated as the game went on, but in truth he's had to do a lot himself this season. Westy has been largely poor. KEA has been middling (though poor in recent weeks). Sylla looked good against City but hasn't had much of a sniff since then.
Delph can't do it all himself. He's also not the guy who's going to pick out a clinical pinpoint pass. At times he's trying to take up the mantle and force that. If we had a decent creative midfielder it would take pressure of Delph and he can concentrate on doing what he does best.
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I think most of us saw last season we were lacking experienced defensive cover and a creative midfielder and both of these problems still remain in my view.
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Delph can't do it all himself. He's also not the guy who's going to pick out a clinical pinpoint pass. At times he's trying to take up the mantle and force that. If we had a decent creative midfielder it would take pressure of Delph and he can concentrate on doing what he does best.
He played a sublime pass into the run of Weimann (I think) in the second half but the move came to nothing with a blocked or rushed effort
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Delph constantly getting MOTM is damning him with faint praise for me. Our midfield is useless and he's the best of a bad bunch.
Delph is a very good footballer.
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I think most of us saw last season we were lacking experienced defensive cover and a creative midfielder and both of these problems still remain in my view.
Yep. I actually think today we missed Clarky.
Baker for me is a liability. I think he broke into the side for want of more options to be honest. I don't see him last beyond another couple of years. He's a championship player.
Clark has the potential and he had a bad season last year, but he's started well this season and may well become a long term player for us.
An experienced guy in there helping the defence would be useful.
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I think most of us saw last season we were lacking experienced defensive cover and a creative midfielder and both of these problems still remain in my view.
Yep. I actually think today we missed Clarky.
Baker for me is a liability. I think he broke into the side for want of more options to be honest. I don't see him last beyond another couple of years. He's a championship player.
Clark has the potential and he had a bad season last year, but he's started well this season and may well become a long term player for us.
An experienced guy in there helping the defence would be useful.
I agree Clark has been really good this year and is looking like the player I hoped he would be. Baker just isn't very good at all.
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Delph constantly getting MOTM is damning him with faint praise for me. Our midfield is useless and he's the best of a bad bunch.
Delph is a very good footballer.
He is indeed. He's the only one I can say with any assurance in our midfield, is good enough at this level.
Sylla I fancy will be.
Westwood and KEA I'm not too sure. Both immobile, both tidy but unspectacular (though the tidy part is evading them both lately). KEA has been a disappointment. Something of a non-entity, seemingly destined to be one of those players in about 10 years where we have a "remember him?" discussion.
Westy hasn't kicked on from last season. He seems to have regressed, as if he'd peaked already. He's got to add more to his game, be it goals, more assists and most certainly better set pieces. Again, he can emulate someone like Petrov, or he can by another Gavin McCann. Someone who started well be filling a gap efficiently, offering something we were lacking, but ultimately wasn't good enough long term.
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I think most of us saw last season we were lacking experienced defensive cover and a creative midfielder and both of these problems still remain in my view.
Yep. I actually think today we missed Clarky.
Baker for me is a liability. I think he broke into the side for want of more options to be honest. I don't see him last beyond another couple of years. He's a championship player.
Clark has the potential and he had a bad season last year, but he's started well this season and may well become a long term player for us.
An experienced guy in there helping the defence would be useful.
I agree Clark has been really good this year and is looking like the player I hoped he would be. Baker just isn't very good at all.
I think Baker is OK. Clark is better, though.
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I think most of us saw last season we were lacking experienced defensive cover and a creative midfielder and both of these problems still remain in my view.
Yep. I actually think today we missed Clarky.
Baker for me is a liability. I think he broke into the side for want of more options to be honest. I don't see him last beyond another couple of years. He's a championship player.
Clark has the potential and he had a bad season last year, but he's started well this season and may well become a long term player for us.
An experienced guy in there helping the defence would be useful.
I agree Clark has been really good this year and is looking like the player I hoped he would be. Baker just isn't very good at all.
I think Baker is OK. Clark is better, though.
The problem will come if Vlaar gets injured and we are again left with Clark and baker together which is worrying.
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Baker is our best defender
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Delph did well
We unsurprisingly looked totally different up top when a £30 million striker came on.
We will miss him badly when he has gone.
As TV says, next summer will come the hard conversation for me. Are we in it just to be 10-15th each season, or does Lambert get £25 million to spend on 3 really decent players instead of 8 to pad out the squad. I hope for the latter. I fear the former. We shall see.
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Well, today I thought we were poor, albeit against a good side.
Luna was mullered today.
Kozak - what actually does he offer? He has no pace and his first touch is Gabby-esque. and he won very little in the air.
Why was the ball pushed back to Guzan so much? - from 100% possession to 50% in one easy pass ... spot the illogic.
Weimann: I feel for the lad; he's miss-firing and it hurts to see it.
Delph: improving by the game.
Bacuna: raw but very promising.
Gabby: got better after a slow start.
Lambert's problem: he had nothing on the bench to change the game (other than the Beast that is CB) - we need options, and we do not have them currently. He needs to put some options on the bench (not Bowery!).
The biggest absence: a midfield maestro (not the car: a playmaker).
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Oh, and what's the story with the new camera angle at Villa Park? Felt like I was standing on the sideline.
It was like the old one pre-Doug Ellis Stand days.
The NBC feed here was normal, I think.
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I think Bake3r will be a better defender than Clark.
The problems today was no creativity up front.You could argue swap Gabby and Townsend, and we would have won.Its that fine a line.
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Baker is our best defender
Holy Moses , that whiskey must be strong :)
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Think we need to go 451 and play with width and a " nr 10" . We are good away from home as a counter attacking force but at home we are so ineffective. I'm worried about how we will be able to trouble Everton and even Cardiff. We are sitting ducks at home .
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Delph did well
We unsurprisingly looked totally different up top when a £30 million striker came on.
We will miss him badly when he has gone.
As TV says, next summer will come the hard conversation for me. Are we in it just to be 10-15th each season, or does Lambert get £25 million to spend on 3 really decent players instead of 8 to pad out the squad. I hope for the latter. I fear the former. We shall see.
The problem is £25m will not take us into the top 6 and if we go from say 12th to 8th on the back of spending £25m on 3 players then we will have spent £25m to earn an extra £4m or so in prize money , I'm not sure randy would see that as being progress.
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Oh, and what's the story with the new camera angle at Villa Park? Felt like I was standing on the sideline.
It was like the old one pre-Doug Ellis Stand days.
The NBC feed here was normal, I think.
I had the one with Pleat commentating and the first thing I noticed other than him being wanker was the lower camera position. It all felt very Witton Lane back in the day.
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Heavens above is it not plain to see?
We need width.
Sort it.
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@friedel_b: Just need to say what a great club Villa is. Obviously happy with Spurs win but great to see so many friendly faces!!!
@MatKendrick: Ciaran Clark was missing today because of a sickness bug #avfc
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Delph did well
We unsurprisingly looked totally different up top when a £30 million striker came on.
We will miss him badly when he has gone.
As TV says, next summer will come the hard conversation for me. Are we in it just to be 10-15th each season, or does Lambert get £25 million to spend on 3 really decent players instead of 8 to pad out the squad. I hope for the latter. I fear the former. We shall see.
I agree, Delph is starting to make some really good runs from midfield and if other players move off the ball we'll be in business. We really need £25 million(more dependent on Benteke's departure) to make 3 or 4 quality additions to the squad and to bring us on a level. Look at Spurs, it's extreme but they made £85 million from Bale and spent £100 million on building an excellent squad. We could do that on a smaller scale.
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Delph constantly getting MOTM is damning him with faint praise for me. Our midfield is useless and he's the best of a bad bunch.
Delph is a very good footballer.
He is indeed.
As mentioned before, I find it incredible he only has a similar number of Premiership starts under his belt as Ashley Westwood.
He's probably the only member of our squad that has a realistic chance of making the England WC squad, despite what Gabby/The Sun and Lambert says.
At times I feel sorry for him. Countless times he traps the ball, drops his shoulder, beats one man, then another, only to lift his head to see Kozak rooted to the spot, hiding behind his marker with Gabby and Weimann motionless square of him in 'nothing' positions. Must be a creative midfielders nightmare....
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Baker is our best defender
He occasionally puts in a camera friendly challenge, but his overall positional sense and his awareness mean at present that he shouldn't be near a premier league defense in my opinion. Just look at the no look pass he played straight to a Spurs player today.
If these sort of mistakes were a rarity with Baker then you could live with it. Problem is he's liable to make a howler once every couple of games
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I would be happy to see Delph sign a new deal as others have been rewarded recently who are nowhere near his quality.
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We are looking like a mid-table side. Inconsistency is what you get with us. After amount of investment we had available (compared to Spuds for example) and last season, I'm not complaining.
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Did you see Clark last season taylor.Against Wigan, it was one of the worst defensive performances ever.
Baker is young, but very competative.In about 2 or 3 seasons time, i think he will be a very good defender.For me he is better now, at this age, than Cahill was.
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Baker is our best defender
I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong. His diving challenges are a result of being hideously out of position all of the time and his concentration is so poor. He's a Championship defender, maybe a bottom end Premier League defender at best. All of our other defenders are much better than Baker.
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Did you see Clark last season taylor.Against Wigan, it was one of the worst defensive performances ever.
Baker is young, but very competative.In about 2 or 3 seasons time, i think he will be a very good defender.For me he is better now, at this age, than Cahill was.
Last season Clark was poor, but he's been completely different this year. Baker hasn't improved from his first game to now, he makes exactly the same errors.
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Kozac doesn't bring much to the party, does he ?
Big improvement when Benteke came on.
Feck all creativity. Delph overworked in midfield.
I really thought we might finally give them a game today.
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At times I feel sorry for him. Countless times he traps the ball, drops his shoulder, beats one man, then another, only to lift his head to see Kozak rooted to the spot, hiding behind his marker with Gabby and Weimann motionless square of him in 'nothing' positions. Must be a creative midfielders nightmare....
This was our major failing today. We're never too good at this, but today our forwards largely behaved as if they'd had frontal lobotomies when it came to positioning themselves to accept a forward ball from midfield.
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At times I feel sorry for him. Countless times he traps the ball, drops his shoulder, beats one man, then another, only to lift his head to see Kozak rooted to the spot, hiding behind his marker with Gabby and Weimann motionless square of him in 'nothing' positions. Must be a creative midfielders nightmare....
This was our major failing today. We're never too good at this, but today our forwards largely behaved as if they'd had frontal lobotomies when it came to positioning themselves to accept a forward ball from midfield.
Yep movement is the problem, if Delph played for a Spurs or Arsenal he would be getting rave reviews.
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At times I feel sorry for him. Countless times he traps the ball, drops his shoulder, beats one man, then another, only to lift his head to see Kozak rooted to the spot, hiding behind his marker with Gabby and Weimann motionless square of him in 'nothing' positions. Must be a creative midfielders nightmare....
This was our major failing today. We're never too good at this, but today our forwards largely behaved as if they'd had frontal lobotomies when it came to positioning themselves to accept a forward ball from midfield.
Yep movement is the problem, if Delph played for a Spurs or Arsenal he would be getting rave reviews.
The way he's playing now, I agree.
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The only looked dangerous on the odd occasion gabby got wide and had the ball at his feet. Would like to see him hogging that touch line with Nzogbia or carruthers or Albrighton on the other flank.
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I think the combined total of their bench today beats out net spend over the last few years.
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Baker saved us in a few games last season with his last ditch challenges, was it QPR, and Norwich, i don't remember any of Clarks defdending keeping us in a game.
But Baker was'nt the problem today, and if Clark was playing, it would'nt have been him.The problems today were Gabby, Westwood and Weimann, and probably Kozak as well.The rest were ok
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Baker is our best defender
Can't really agree.
Would still give that award to Vlaar, who really is an assured act. Once you stop asking him to babysit the back four on his own that is.
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Couple of seasons ago at VP one of the chants from the other fans at a game (QPR/Fulham?) was "You're not famous anymore" which is clearly gramatically incorrect but I get what they meant. I lived in London for nearly 25 years and that is the general view of Villa from most football supporters I know down there. A sleeping lion no doubt but sleeping nonetheless.
Your spelling of grammatically is also grammatically incorrect. ;)
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Just home. Sunday night traffic very bad. I thought that was a very disappointing game. As I see it our games are the same as our seasons. They go in fits and starts. Our play is very fragmented. We attack a bit then we defend a bit. We attack some more and defend some more. We are incapable of getting on top in a game and staying on top.
The biggest void which needs to be filled is a midfield general. Not necessarily a ball winner or a play maker or a Hollywood passer, a general like Ray Houghton or Andy Townsend or Steve Staunton or Kevin Richardson. An organizer.
I am too tired to read all the pages of this thread and apologies if it has been covered but the treatment we receive at the hands of Dowd is disgraceful. The man has a provocative mindset towards Villa and you can see that his attitude is "you think that was unfair. Have some of this". He does just enough to stay onside with his masters at the FA and hides behind a front of not being afraid to make unpopular calls. They are not unpopular calls Dowd, the crowd is angry because they are wrong calls. I think Ron Vlaar as captain could have done more to mark Dowd's card. Without being offensive or aggressive our captain should have been demanding a more even handed approach from the referee, as he is perfectly entitled to do.
My final point is that if Benteke was only going to be risked for 45 minutes it should have been the first half not the second. You cannot play catch up against a team as good as the London Queens.
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Gabby was in the media at the weekend talking aout his WC hopes. Ha ha. Not a chance.
What as? A Pundit?
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Vlaar has been very good this year, Okore looked very promising and Clark has been very good. Baker occasionally looks good on camera because fans like last ditch tackles, but it's as a result of his poor positional sense. Top defenders don't have to make last ditch tackles every game, ask Paul McGrath.
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Just home. Sunday night traffic very bad. I thought that was a very disappointing game. As I see it our games are the same as our seasons. They go in fits and starts. Our play is very fragmented. We attack a bit then we defend a bit. We attack some more and defend some more. We are incapable of getting on top in a game and staying on top.
The biggest void which needs to be filled is a midfield general. Not necessarily a ball winner or a play maker or a Hollywood passer, a general like Ray Houghton or Andy Townsend or Steve Staunton or Kevin Richardson. An organizer.
I am too tired to read all the pages of this thread and apologies if it has been covered but the treatment we receive at the hands of Dowd is disgraceful. The man has a provocative mindset towards Villa and you can see that his attitude is "you think that was unfair. Have some of this". He does just enough to stay onside with his masters at the FA and hides behind a front of not being afraid to make unpopular calls. They are not unpopular calls Dowd, the crowd is angry because they are wrong calls. I think Ron Vlaar as captain could have done more to mark Dowd's card. Without being offensive or aggressive our captain should have been demanding a more even handed approach from the referee, as he is perfectly entitled to do.
My final point is that if Benteke was only going to be risked for 45 minutes it should have been the first half not the second. You cannot play catch up against a team as good as the London Queens.
I agree with the vast majority of this Brian. Well said.
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Didn't think Dowd was that bad today. He could easily have given straight Red to Westwood for example first half.
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Not read the thread but thought the performance was a carbon copy of the Man City game, physically and technically inferior overall but we had spells on top but didn't create owt. Obviously one major difference.
Fair result really.
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Didn't think Dowd was that bad today. He could easily have given straight Red to Westwood for example first half.
<TBH I think he's lost weight too...>
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Not read the thread but thought the performance was a carbon copy of the Man City game, physically and technically inferior overall but we had spells on top but didn't create owt. Obviously one major difference.
Fair result really.
I thought the game was similar to the City one as well. Spurs are a good team with the quality to suddenly create and score a chance like their second goal today even when not playing well. No shame today, I think.
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Garth Crooks has given Lloris the GK position in his team of the week because "Clean sheets are at a premium in football, and on that basis, I'm going for Hugo Lloris who provided a solid performance away at Aston Villa." He said he was going to give it to Ruddy but he shipped in four. He obviously never saw the match and just saw spurs had kept a clean sheet, not that Lloris had pretty much nothing to do but was pretty crap when pressured to take a kick.
Anyway, Brad still shows he is still the best keeper out there.
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I forgot to mention how shit our shooting was. And our lack of width is criminal.
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Baker is fine in the physical games against the likes of Stoke and West Ham.
I'm not a huge fan of Clark but he has played well this year in fairness, today's game where it would've been all about reading Spurs's moves would've probably suited him more but I'd still have expected us to concede a couple.
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Oh, and (apologies if you are one) do you generally dislike all cockneys? Not just spurs, but all of 'em? They really get on my tits.
Disclaimer: Prem wise, never met a Fulham fan
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we need to get this defence sorted or get rid ove Lambers simplies
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The defence has shipped already what, 12 goals maybe less than in the corresponding games last season? So there is a marked improvement.
Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
The biggest thing for me though is setting the tone in the attacking 3rd. Delph and Westwood are fine, if you then had Holtby, Townsend and Sigurdsson pulling the strings behind Benteke. Trouble is Gabby and Weimann are not creative in truth. Weimann is worth his place if he is scoring, but when not he offers little other than nuisance. Said it before but he reminds me of Paul Dickov without the nasty streak. Decent, but not brilliant.
Gabby is our best outlet by miles, but way better when Benteke is on.
And at home I am starting to think 4-4-2 with Kojak and Benteke up top, Bacuna and Bennett out wide might be worth a go.
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I would rather not see us play 4-4-2. I think we'd get muscled out at midfield. Would rather see us bring in a number 10 to play behind the main striker in a 4-5-1. I think that would help us break down teams at home. Having a player roaming about would also take markers off Benteke and maybe allow us have Gabby/Weimann further wide to spread the play a bit more?
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I would sooner give Albrighton a game out wide at the moment you know. Gabby left and Albrighton right and get some width at VP.
I miss NZogbia at the moment, at least he can make things happen.
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I would sooner give Albrighton a game out wide at the moment you know. Gabby left and Albrighton right and get some width at VP.
I miss NZogbia at the moment, at least he can make things happen.
I miss the Zog, I know he's been heavily criticised (and rightly so), but I really enjoyed when he played latter half of last season. Whether we can afford having him in the team is another question, he'd have to work harder defensively.
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The tunnel had a terrible debut :(
On the plus side, I thought Guzan and Delph had very good games. Tonev looked really good in his cameo as well which was a relief as I hadn't seen him have a good game until now. Onwards and upwards, we'll do Everton anyways.
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I Hope Paul Lambert looks at the Paulinho chance about 5 mins into the second half which brought about Guzans second save.
It came from an attacking throw in which had been practised in training.
Can we start to work on these too please
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We're still gonna finish 10th
Still a good chance of 9th or 10th. Looking at some of the comments early in the thread you'd think we'd lost the last 3. Not convinced by El Ahmadi or Kozak. Tonev's cameo was heartening. At times it feels like Delph is carrying the midfield. Phil Dowd is too fat to referee.
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Very disappointing. it was the lack of attacking intent more than anything that got to me. It also shows why Kozak is not a direct replacement for Benteke, we look a completely different team when benteke is on due to the way we play. We looked crisper and sharper in everything we did - until the 2nd goal. Also, watching Kozak he looks teh type who likes the ball in front of him and not being used as a target man. By playing him as such we are weakening his abilities. If he is to play then we need at least one winger and also look to put the ball to his feet and not in the air.
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I Hope Paul Lambert looks at the Paulinho chance about 5 mins into the second half which brought about Guzans second save.
It came from an attacking throw in which had been practised in training.
Can we start to work on these too please
Was going to say actually. We must be the worst club in the world for throw ins. We're that bad I'm surprised we haven't had a repeat of Pete Enckleman yet. The other week it was the foul throws bonanza, but every week we seem to just mindlessly toss the ball back to the opposition.
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Oh, and (apologies if you are one) do you generally dislike all cockneys? Not just spurs, but all of 'em? They really get on my tits.
Disclaimer: Prem wise, never met a Fulham fan
Can only speak for myself but yeah. All cockneys, Londoners, southerners etc. Ignorant wankers.
Hate London, Londoners and all things London. My old man is the same too. Irrational if you like but I hate the Twats. Not many things better than beating a London football team.
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Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
I agree and I think this is also why he's not premiership quality. The majority of the teams are technically thoughtful now, and many clubs will continue to adapt to the more continental way of playing. I think that's also why were seeing clubs like Stoke and West Ham struggling a little. The more successful promoted clubs generally tend to play footy too, like Swansea and Soton.
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The defence has shipped already what, 12 goals maybe less than in the corresponding games last season? So there is a marked improvement.
Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
The biggest thing for me though is setting the tone in the attacking 3rd. Delph and Westwood are fine, if you then had Holtby, Townsend and Sigurdsson pulling the strings behind Benteke. Trouble is Gabby and Weimann are not creative in truth. Weimann is worth his place if he is scoring, but when not he offers little other than nuisance. Said it before but he reminds me of Paul Dickov without the nasty streak. Decent, but not brilliant.
Gabby is our best outlet by miles, but way better when Benteke is on.
And at home I am starting to think 4-4-2 with Kojak and Benteke up top, Bacuna and Bennett out wide might be worth a go.
I suggested this earlier ozz, try Kozak alongside benteke as a forward two, and push bacuna into midfield , Bennett may well be worth a go as left sided midfield too, and defensively we would look better with bacuna and Bennett help protect Lowton and luna plus able to provide width going forward .
Guzan
Lowton. Vlaar. Clark. Luna
Bacuna. Delph. Sylla. Bennett
Kozak. Benteke
Very different , but we need to be different at home and give everton something to think about.
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We're still gonna finish 10th
Still a good chance of 9th or 10th. Looking at some of the comments early in the thread you'd think we'd lost the last 3. Not convinced by El Ahmadi or Kozak. Tonev's cameo was heartening. At times it feels like Delph is carrying the midfield. Phil Dowd is too fat to referee.
Dowd has lost 2 stone in the summer and is clearly not too fat to referee , he is however too shit to referee.
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We're still gonna finish 10th
Still a good chance of 9th or 10th. Looking at some of the comments early in the thread you'd think we'd lost the last 3. Not convinced by El Ahmadi or Kozak. Tonev's cameo was heartening. At times it feels like Delph is carrying the midfield. Phil Dowd is too fat to referee.
Dowd has lost 2 stone in the summer and is clearly not too fat to referee , he is however too shit to referee.
He could lose another 10 stone and he'd still be obese.
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The defence has shipped already what, 12 goals maybe less than in the corresponding games last season? So there is a marked improvement.
Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
The biggest thing for me though is setting the tone in the attacking 3rd. Delph and Westwood are fine, if you then had Holtby, Townsend and Sigurdsson pulling the strings behind Benteke. Trouble is Gabby and Weimann are not creative in truth. Weimann is worth his place if he is scoring, but when not he offers little other than nuisance. Said it before but he reminds me of Paul Dickov without the nasty streak. Decent, but not brilliant.
Gabby is our best outlet by miles, but way better when Benteke is on.
And at home I am starting to think 4-4-2 with Kojak and Benteke up top, Bacuna and Bennett out wide might be worth a go.
I suggested this earlier ozz, try Kozak alongside benteke as a forward two, and push bacuna into midfield , Bennett may well be worth a go as left sided midfield too, and defensively we would look better with bacuna and Bennett help protect Lowton and luna plus able to provide width going forward .
Guzan
Lowton. Vlaar. Clark. Luna
Bacuna. Delph. Sylla. Bennett
Kozak. Benteke
Very different , but we need to be different at home and give everton something to think about.
No offence, but I think that team stinks!
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Baker is our best defender
I completely disagree. I think Our other three centre halves are all much better than Baker.
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Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
I agree and I think this is also why he's not premiership quality. The majority of the teams are technically thoughtful now, and many clubs will continue to adapt to the more continental way of playing. I think that's also why were seeing clubs like Stoke and West Ham struggling a little. The more successful promoted clubs generally tend to play footy too, like Swansea and Soton.
I think the main problem Baker (and others) have is on the training ground at BH. When Spurs (for example) are training their defenders are up against Townsend, Salgado and especially Defoe with a point to prove. Think of the movement off the ball that the defenders are faced with. Then think of Baker facing Gabby etc. I bet he never has to look where he is as he hardly ever moves unless he has the ball at his feet. And I am not just picking on Gabby the others are just as bad. So when our defenders come up against players that are trained to move around and draw them out they don't really stand much of a chance.
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No offence taken matt, but we do need to change things at home , playing bacuna and Bennett as wide midfielders helps protect Lowton and luna as our full backs are too often exposed - also it would provide width on the overlap and both have genuine crossing ability from out wide .
Gabby and Weimann are strikers being asked to play wider roles which doesn't come natural to them- they are too hit and miss and easy to combat at villa park.
Kozak would probably benefit playing alongside benteke where we have a twin strike threat with crosses coming in for them - bacuna also would be able to cut inside and provide more creativity than Westwood or kea .
Not a perfect system i know but as I said we are going nowhere persevering at home the way we currently do - lets give everton something to think about and provide a bit more width to our side while at the same time giving more protection to the full backs.
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Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.
I agree and I think this is also why he's not premiership quality. The majority of the teams are technically thoughtful now, and many clubs will continue to adapt to the more continental way of playing. I think that's also why were seeing clubs like Stoke and West Ham struggling a little. The more successful promoted clubs generally tend to play footy too, like Swansea and Soton.
I think the main problem Baker (and others) have is on the training ground at BH. When Spurs (for example) are training their defenders are up against Townsend, Salgado and especially Defoe with a point to prove. Think of the movement off the ball that the defenders are faced with. Then think of Baker facing Gabby etc. I bet he never has to look where he is as he hardly ever moves unless he has the ball at his feet. And I am not just picking on Gabby the others are just as bad. So when our defenders come up against players that are trained to move around and draw them out they don't really stand much of a chance.
You have made a good assesment of our problems. I was watching Sturridge a couple of weeks ago. His movement is excellent. Come to think of it so is Suarez's. We have (apart from Benteke) very basic players both in midfield and up front. Delph has obvious talent without thinking too much what he is going to do with the ball. Both Westwood and KEA do the simple things well without having a great deal of skill.
But there is very little money in the club. Lambert has invested 7mil on Kozak which is a hell of a lot of money for us and I shouldnt think the chairman will give him much more. Kozak ,so far, hasnt shown an awful lot that would lift him above Bowery in the pecking order.
Benteke has the competion of Lukaku for his World Cup place so he has to hit his top form before too long and that at the moment is the only thing we have to look forward to.
As I have said before Lambert is doing a good job with limited finance. Randy doesnt show any obvious interest in the club but neither looks likely to sell. So we can only hope Lambert gets it right and we do what Everton have done under Moyes in the past. That is a top half finish and the occasional good performance.
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Abroad and was surrounded by Spuds fans in a Med bar wondering why I was so quiet. Disappointed..and they thought they were lucky when over. A bit of polite post-match banter and analysis followed, and then we went our separate ways.
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Sorry eastie but I think Kozak is proving to be a luxury we cannot afford. Premiership games come thick and fast and they are not the place to be easing a player into improvement. Players coming into the Premiership have to hit the ground running. The one thing a manager does not have is time.
Therein lies the crux of our problems. For financial reasons (we assume) Lambert has been obliged to buy players with the potential to become Premiership standard. One of his signings, Christian Benteke has adapted instantly and we have felt a huge benefit from his presence. Others still have the jury out. Some may make top half prem players others will not but we do not have the time to hang about for more than a week or two now to find out. A poor run or like last year a disastrous Christmas and your season falls apart and you have to plunge young and undeveloped players into relegation dogfights.
In my own highly personal opinion, just my opinion, nothing else, Kozak looks a bad buy. Not because there is not a competent striker in there somewhere underneath the lack of pace, ability in the air and lack of muscularity but because we do not have the time to spare to bring him out.
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I think Bake3r will be a better defender than Clark.
The problems today was no creativity up front.You could argue swap Gabby and Townsend, and we would have won.Its that fine a line.
re the Baker v Clark debate, Id have Clark ahead but they both arent good enough. Baker's lack of composure, footballing ability and positional sense arent good enough for the division he is playing in right now. Clark is slightly ahead on those three but lacks Baker's physical strength. I dont rate Vlaar all that much but if he gets injured......
Agreed on your second point, I didnt think there was much in the game bar we had no attacking threat in the middle third. Spurs had one and we gave him the freedom of their right flank in the second half. Paulinho added a decent threat breaking into our box which we lack too, he was key for the killer second goal which we handed them. Tactically AVB owned Lambert, shocking really how Luna was left one on one constantly against a player in great form. Gabby who was hopeless should have been put on the left of midfield to give Luna support.
Benteke scores that great chance and its a different game but we are really going to struggle for goals this season. I doubt Westwood, Sylla, Kea and Delph will get 5 league goals between then. Gabby and Weimann are horribly off form. Benteke will be key for us avoiding a relegation scrap I'm afraid. I thought Bacuna had a good game for us and made our best chance. Vlaar was solid enough, Delph had a decent game in midfield. I felt sorry for Delph actually as too many of our players hid when he was looking for options meaning he had to run with the ball more and lost it as a result. Tonev pulled a decent ball to the back post for the second game in a row late on but if Benteke doesnt score no-one will it seems. Kozak was utterly hopeless again I'm afraid, considering the lack of goal threat of midfield his signing really is making less sense by the week.
Guzan 7, Bacuna 7, Vlaar 6, Baker 5, Luna 4, Kea 4, Westwood 5, Delph 7, Weimann 5, Kozak 4, Gabby 4. benteke 6, Tonev 6, Sylla 5
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I didn't think we were that bad yesterday but overall not good enough. I think it's obvious now that Kozak in that Benteke role is not going to work. He looks like the kind of striker who needs a partner alongside him. As for the others, Delph had another solid game, as did Bacuna.
As for Dowd, he wasn't as bad as he normally is but he was still crap.
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Sorry eastie but I think Kozak is proving to be a luxury we cannot afford. Premiership games come thick and fast and they are not the place to be easing a player into improvement. Players coming into the Premiership have to hit the ground running. The one thing a manager does not have is time.
Therein lies the crux of our problems. For financial reasons (we assume) Lambert has been obliged to buy players with the potential to become Premiership standard. One of his signings, Christian Benteke has adapted instantly and we have felt a huge benefit from his presence. Others still have the jury out. Some may make top half prem players others will not but we do not have the time to hang about for more than a week or two now to find out. A poor run or like last year a disastrous Christmas and your season falls apart and you have to plunge young and undeveloped players into relegation dogfights.
In my own highly personal opinion, just my opinion, nothing else, Kozak looks a bad buy. Not because there is not a competent striker in there somewhere underneath the lack of pace, ability in the air and lack of muscularity but because we do not have the time to spare to bring him out.
The thing is brian, that Kozak looks a bad buy because we are playing him in a system which doesn't suit him , give him a go alongside benteke and he may well flourish , with a bit or service from out wide.
The system we are playing with him clearly doesn't play to his strengths and therefore he looks a fish out of water.
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Funny, I normally think of myself as on the negative side but I don't think we were half as bad as some are making out on here.
It's night and day from last season, we look far more solid, Vlaar has come on a lot, Delph played well, I thought KEA did OK though Westwood worried me yesterday.
It's clear that we lack real quality in midfield but hey we've known that for eons. I wonder if the ones on here getting really really down are the ones who thought we were suddenly sorted after the 3-2 with City?
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Someone mentioned earlier on the thread that the most shocking thing about losing again is that it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. It's getting the same for me and may be explained by either a) I'm getting old(er), or b) I go to VP more in hope than expectation these days. Then I heard a shocking stat on MOTD last night so I had a quick look at Statto (http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/premier-league)- and sure enough we've only won 10 of our last 42 home games (4 under TSM, 5 last season, and 1 so far this season), scoring an average of just 1.1 goals a game. That really is depressing and needs to get resolved. I'm not sure whether there is a nervousness in the players at VP, and for most of the game yesterday the atmosphere was again very subdued except for the 10 minutes or so after CB came on. If we could get the atmosphere to how it was against Citeh it would help, but it's very much a chicken and egg situation both with the atmosphere and results. Worrying that we're depending on our away form to stay in the top flight
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Some harsh treatment of KEA on here, he's improved massively this season and put's himself about abit.
Westwood was poor yesterday, surely Sylla deserves a chance after his performances at the end of last season.
We'll be ok, no relegation dogfight this season.
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I know that every defeat is Armageddon, but I thought that was a perfectly honourable defeat. The McLeish comparisons are demented: we pressed them from the first minute to the last, never became defeatist and were never uncompetitive.
Good things: Luna may have had a poor game against a terrific player in terrific form, but was actually really bright in attack; Delph faded late on and gave a few loose passes away, but dribbled like he was made of rubber for most of the game; Kozak has a brain in his head to make up for his other deficiencies, but Benteke just being on the pitch seemed to invigorate the players; Weimann and Gabby were direct and threatening (apart from their shooting), and Tonev had his best time in a Villa shirt so far. Oh, and we might just have the best keeper in the league.
Less good things: we clearly miss both Clark and Okore, and Baker wasn't great; KEA was a real nuisance in the first half but became somewhat listless, and Westwood had a somewhat anonymous game (Sylla was a bit sloppy when he came on); Bacuna's positioning was fairly nonexistent, though his energy and powerful dribbling were admirable; Weimann especially can't really shoot.
But most of all, we need a creative midfielder of the type of which Spurs have a surplus. No Eriksen, no Lamela, ten minutes of Dembele and that's totally fine by them. They're a much better side than us but we were never out of the game despite their superiority. We're a safe, up-and-down middling team who are generally more entertaining than we need to be, and that's all fine by me.
Pretty much sums it up for me. I'll just add that if the game had finished a draw I don't think anyone would be thinking "how the hell did we get away with that" - it was a close game that they just shaded.
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I think Kozak hasn't been brilliant but you've got to give him time to settle in a new league, That being said I would put someone up front with Benteke, either Gabby or Weimann, but we cannot keep playing that 3 up front thing with Andi on the right. It just does not work and he drifts in and out of the game.
We need some width, Kick Lowton's arse and get bacuna on the right and get some bloody width
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Expectations have almost hit rock bottom.
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Tell you something else Everton is going to be no barrel of laughs either as they are playing well
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Therein lies the crux of our problems. For financial reasons (we assume) Lambert has been obliged to buy players with the potential to become Premiership standard. One of his signings, Christian Benteke has adapted instantly and we have felt a huge benefit from his presence. Others still have the jury out. Some may make top half prem players others will not but we do not have the time to hang about for more than a week or two now to find out. A poor run or like last year a disastrous Christmas and your season falls apart and you have to plunge young and undeveloped players into relegation dogfights.
Spot on. The jury is still our on must of the players he's bought.
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I think Kozak hasn't been brilliant but you've got to give him time to settle in a new league, That being said I would put someone up front with Benteke, either Gabby or Weimann, but we cannot keep playing that 3 up front thing with Andi on the right. It just does not work and he drifts in and out of the game.
We need some width, Kick Lowton's arse and get bacuna on the right and get some bloody width
The system with three up front works well in away games but yeah at home I think the system might need tinkering. The problem is who to drop. Weimann and Benteke seem to have an understanding and we'd miss Gabby's pace if he was left out.
I suggested Bacuna in front of Lowton yesterday. I think that could work.
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I think Kozak hasn't been brilliant but you've got to give him time to settle in a new league, That being said I would put someone up front with Benteke, either Gabby or Weimann, but we cannot keep playing that 3 up front thing with Andi on the right. It just does not work and he drifts in and out of the game.
We need some width, Kick Lowton's arse and get bacuna on the right and get some bloody width
The system with three up front works well in away games but yeah at home I think the system might need tinkering. The problem is who to drop. Weimann and Benteke seem to have an understanding and we'd miss Gabby's pace if he was left out.
I suggested Bacuna in front of Lowton yesterday. I think that could work.
Get Bacuna and Sylla in the middle, and start playing the game in the oppositions half.
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November looks like the month of milk and honey. If we end up losing the two home games in that month, then I wont be best pleased!
I think Lambert has been too loyal to a few players; Westowwod in particular. Time for Lowton and Bennett to come back in, Bacuna into the middle, with Sylla.
I would then bring Tonev in to play in the hole and have Benteke and Gabby up top. Alternatively, you can revert to a 442, with Bacuna wide right. Andi, Luna, Westwood and KEA haven't cut it the past few games. The squad is there, so use it.
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I thought we weren't too bad yesterday. We didn't create much and neither did they. I thought we worked really well closing them down and limiting their space, once they scored their second it opened up and they created more but I thought that goal was against the run of play.
They have better players than us, they played slightly better than us. Nothing to get too down about.
About Kozak, it's too early to really judge him as a player, he's only had a few touches in total, but it doesn't look like there's any point playing him in the Benteke role, he's a passenger there.
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Reading Dave W's write up in the 'pressed on' thread, I think he has exactly nailed it with this statement.
'They came to Villa Park on a grey Sunday afternoon, achieved a routine 2-0 win'
Sadly, for me, this just sums up our home form of the last 3 years.
Too many teams now come to Villa Park and achieve a 'routine win', it really is depressing.
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I thought we weren't too bad yesterday. We didn't create much and neither did they. I thought we worked really well closing them down and limiting their space, once they scored their second it opened up and they created more but I thought that goal was against the run of play.
They have better players than us, they played slightly better than us. Nothing to get too down about.
About Kozak, it's too early to really judge him as a player, he's only had a few touches in total, but it doesn't look like there's any point playing him in the Benteke role, he's a passenger there.
This pretty much ^^^
I imagine Lambert will play a similar system next home game, because it works better with Benteke in the side and also Lambert's like that. However Cardiff and Sunderland at home in November are the perfect opportunity to try a few new things out, and more importantly smack the shit out of them (because neither are that good).
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Spurs have a good chance of finishing in the top 4 this season. They will certainly finish in the top six, as will most of the sides we have had the misfortune of playing in the opening 8 games.
The difference yesterday was that they had a touch of quality in the midfield, which you would expect from spending £100 million. We look what we are, a mid-table side. We are capable of beating teams above us in the table, in the same way that we're likely to succumb to a few inept performances along the way as well.
Until we get to the summer and no longer have to spend £20 million spread over 5-6 players to re-build the squad, as we have done the past two seasons, but instead buy two or three at £8-10 million a pop and the quality that a player at that price insinuates, then we won't be regularly beating the likes of Arsenal and Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Spurs and its unfair and unrealistic to expect us to be able to do that now; we just finished in the bottom six. Progress will be finishing 12-8th.
For the time being though, we canc ertainly help ourselves and the likes of Kozak by playing the their strengths. Isolating the bloke and lumping it up to him from the back isn't going to work.
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Someone mentioned earlier on the thread that the most shocking thing about losing again is that it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. It's getting the same for me and may be explained by either a) I'm getting old(er), or b) I go to VP more in hope than expectation these days. Then I heard a shocking stat on MOTD last night so I had a quick look at Statto- and sure enough we've only won 10 of our last 42 home games (4 under TSM, 5 last season, and 1 so far this season), scoring an average of just 1.1 goals a game. That really is depressing and needs to get resolved. I'm not sure whether there is a nervousness in the players at VP, and for most of the game yesterday the atmosphere was again very subdued except for the 10 minutes or so after CB came on. If we could get the atmosphere to how it was against Citeh it would help, but it's very much a chicken and egg situation both with the atmosphere and results. Worrying that we're depending on our away form to stay in the top flight
Your point about the atmosphere is spot on. The thing is these days most fans need something to get vocal and excited about inc me. When I see the team set up for damage limitation like yesterday, Liverpool and Citeh, then its hard to get too excited. Why start the second halves so well in these three games when we play so poorly in the first half.
Lambert is staring to hack me off with this approach. Why not give it a go from the off, get the crowd going and then maybe score the first goal of the match, rather than be constantly chasing the game. I bet we would be the only team in the prem who still felt Man U could beat us on their current form.
Lambert seems to accept defeat before he starts. His post match view was embarrassing, claiming it was a tight match which could have gone either way. Who is he kidding? Was on the Guardian web site last night and all the neutrals were right in thinking we looked poor and were there for damage limitation. Nearly as bad as McLeish in my view
As others have said the lack of width is a joke. The front starting three dont work together and KEA and Westwood isnt the answer. Sylla should be starting instead of KEA.
No doubt Everton will be the same
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November looks like the month of milk and honey. If we end up losing the two home games in that month, then I wont be best pleased!
I think Lambert has been too loyal to a few players; Westowwod in particular. Time for Lowton and Bennett to come back in, Bacuna into the middle, with Sylla. I would then bring Tonev in to play in the hole and have Benteke and Gabby up top. Alternatively, you can revert to a 442, with Bacuna wide right. Andi, Luna, Westwood and KEA haven't cut it the past few games. The squad is there, so use it.
So pleased that it's Lambert and not you who picks our team ;)
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
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I always feel it is better the day after the game so as to let the dust settle so to speak.
For me yesterday Lambert put us out not to lose and for the first 30 mins it worked. Neither side looked like scoring. They then scored and there lay the problem how do we break them down. We had a good 5 mins with the Benteke header and then they got the second and that was that.
Clearly as fans we have to understand where we are now and where we were. On the same games played last season we would have 4 points and a much worse goal difference to know. Last season against spurs we got trounced 4-0 and they had 15 corners in one half alone. With the budget we have this season is going to be very much work in progress and try to continue to improve.
As someone referred to in their post earlier we are no longer buying players of proven premiership quality we are buying players with the potential. So far Benteke has far exceeded expectations whilst many of the other players have shown they can cut it but are miles away from the top six.
To me we have two players of top six quality Guzan and Benteke so to expect to compete with these sides week in week out is just not going to happen. In time if the side stays together its possible but unlikely.
From watching yesterday for me the game was won and lost in the middle of the park. We have two out of the three players who never go forward with only Delph ever prepared to get past a player. Away from home I agree with it at Home I just cant justify it. We play Cardiff and Sunderland at home in November and we MUST play only one of KEA or Westwood we cannot play both.
I dont agree with many on here who want 4-4-2. 4-4-2 is a system of the old ages no team plays it successfuly anymore. 1 up front is the new tried and trusted system. What we miss is the quality number 10 who links the midfield to the front players. Hits Gabby and Weimann down the flanks, plays the slide rule ball to Benteke.
Thats what this team so desperately needs. None of Westwood, Sylla, Delph or KEA will ever be that player. The only player who I think could and I stress could play that role is Tonev. However is he good enough only time will tell for me probably not but he must be given that chance.
Bacuna is showing real promise whilst Luna must improve defensively. This season he has been shown up by Hatem Ben Arfa and now Townsend both players just wanting to cut inside and he allows them far too easily. You can always excuse a bad game and mistakes its how you learn from it and he cannot afford a similar display.
This team is continuing to learn and over the last few years has cut its cloth. A top 10-12 finish is the best we can aspire for. What Lambert has to improve now is playing at Home against the Sunderlands, Cardiff etc. Failure there will lead us into another relegation battle
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What exactly is going on with Helenius? He doesn't appear to have much faith from the manager.
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What exactly is going on with Helenius? He doesn't appear to have much faith from the manager.
I'm not sure what role he was bought to fit into to be honest , he showed some nice touches in pre season and a couple of lovely assists but I don't quite see what position lambert sees him fitting into .
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
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The big problem with Kozak as I see it is he is an old fashioned number 9 in as much as he needs service , in all honestly CURRENTLY he doesn't off more than Bent in the regard outside the box he is not offering enough.There was little to know cohesion with the front 3 yesterday untill Benteke came on.
I think the 4-3-3 does need to be modified at home Wiemann and Gabby work best as wide attackers counter attacking when the build up is slower they are not as effective neither are clever enough. It doesn't help that 2 of the 3 midfielders AW and KEA and nice and tidy but rarely if at all support the attack and as seen by the 2nd goal too easily out muscled off the ball.
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
If he's talking about attacking intent then not that positive. We set out to try and keep the score down, frustrate them and possibly nick a result. We scored three fairly fortunate goals from City falling asleep (and the lino), and didn't have any chances aside.
That was a game where our first thought was defending.
I'm not complaining though. Three points is three points.
I actually think in the last two games we have had intent to attack. The main problem has been our (lack of) ability. Poor ball control and passing and keeping everything so narrow (in the areas where, if you're to succeed as an attacking force, ball control and passing are essential) don't help matters.
Perhaps against Spurs we should have been a bit more negative and gone 5 at the back. Clark was injured I guess, so maybe we would have had he played. We need to get more width in our side. Is it any wonder our best chances yesterday (few and far between) came from wide positions?
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
If he's talking about attacking intent then not that positive. We set out to try and keep the score down, frustrate them and possibly nick a result. We scored three fairly fortunate goals from City falling asleep (and the lino), and didn't have any chances aside.
That was a game where our first thought was defending.
Perhaps against Spurs we should have been a bit more negative and gone 5 at the back. Clark was injured I guess, so maybe we would have had he played. We need to get more width in our side. Is it any wonder our best chances yesterday (few and far between) came from wide positions?
I disagree. For the Man City game Lambert had two of his three main strikers out so rather than play maybe Tonev and possibly leave us a bit vunerable against a very good attacking side, he played it safer and it worked.
But you say we maybe should have played 5 at the back yesterday? Would'nt that have been keeping the score down, the same thing you accused us of doing against City?
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
I nearly didnt include that game in my list. The consensus after the match, including mine was that we got lucky. City dominated thefirst half. You get lucky once in a while, but more often than not (see my list of games) you dont. Yesterday being a case in point.
Lambert doesnt have the quality in the squad, we all know that, due to financial restrictions when compared to the likes of Spurs. However, there is no excuse for a defensive minded approach and the fact that after the Chelsea game we have played poorly. There is a lack of skill, passion, pass and move, ingenuity etc etc. our dead balls, bar Bacuma's free kick, are shocking.
If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
I nearly didnt include that game in my list. The consensus after the match, including mine was that we got lucky. City dominated thefirst half. You get lucky once in a while, but more often than not (see my list of games) you dont. Yesterday being a case in point.
Lambert doesnt have the quality in the squad, we all know that, due to financial restrictions when compared to the likes of Spurs. However, there is no excuse for a defensive minded approach and the fact that after the Chelsea game we have played poorly. There is a lack of skill, passion, pass and move, ingenuity etc etc. our dead balls, bar Bacuma's free kick, are shocking.
If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
I wouldn't call 4-3-3 defensive minded, I really wouldn't.
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The big problem with Kozak as I see it is he is an old fashioned number 9 in as much as he needs service , in all honestly CURRENTLY he doesn't off more than Bent in the regard outside the box he is not offering enough.There was little to know cohesion with the front 3 yesterday untill Benteke came on.
I think the 4-3-3 does need to be modified at home Wiemann and Gabby work best as wide attackers counter attacking when the build up is slower they are not as effective neither are clever enough. It doesn't help that 2 of the 3 midfielders AW and KEA and nice and tidy but rarely if at all support the attack and as seen by the 2nd goal too easily out muscled off the ball.
Exactly re Bent. We off load him to Fulham and sign someone who looks a shadow of Bent in terms of goal scoring prowess.
That said Kojak gets no service to really do anything
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
I nearly didnt include that game in my list. The consensus after the match, including mine was that we got lucky. City dominated thefirst half. You get lucky once in a while, but more often than not (see my list of games) you dont. Yesterday being a case in point.
Lambert doesnt have the quality in the squad, we all know that, due to financial restrictions when compared to the likes of Spurs. However, there is no excuse for a defensive minded approach and the fact that after the Chelsea game we have played poorly. There is a lack of skill, passion, pass and move, ingenuity etc etc. our dead balls, bar Bacuma's free kick, are shocking.
If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
I wouldn't call 4-3-3 defensive minded, I really wouldn't.
You can quote whatever formations you want, its how we actually play on the pitch that is the proof. We play defensively at home and pay accordingly. I just wish he'd have a go from the off. We aren't good enough defensively to play a defensive game. The Italians perfected it years ago because they had the likes of Baresi, ditto Arsenal under Graham with Adam etc
The general quality of play is poor. This is Lamberts team and tactics
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Too many players are not performing regularly t the required level this season - gabby, Weimann, Westwood, kea , luna all need to improve consistency .
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
I nearly didnt include that game in my list. The consensus after the match, including mine was that we got lucky. City dominated thefirst half. You get lucky once in a while, but more often than not (see my list of games) you dont. Yesterday being a case in point.
Lambert doesnt have the quality in the squad, we all know that, due to financial restrictions when compared to the likes of Spurs. However, there is no excuse for a defensive minded approach and the fact that after the Chelsea game we have played poorly. There is a lack of skill, passion, pass and move, ingenuity etc etc. our dead balls, bar Bacuma's free kick, are shocking.
If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
I wouldn't call 4-3-3 defensive minded, I really wouldn't.
You can quote whatever formations you want
I did and it's 4-3-3. What formation would you call it?
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I wouldn't call 4-3-3 defensive minded, I really wouldn't.
I would when usually all but one is defending
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If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
The last two performances have been piss poor.
I think one of the major differences re your McLeish comparison is that with Lambert, he's not a disciple of dour football, he's trying to get us playing attractively and sometimes failing.
McLeish never tried, and that was what was so monumentally depressing about him, he was doing "what he does" and it was never going to be different.
I can remember previous relegations, and some truly terrible Villa sides eeking out poor performances in front or 14k people, and that was horrible at times, but I still maintain, I never had the hope and enjoyment so comprehensively sucked out of supporting Villa as McLeish managed in one single season.
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It looked like 7-0-3 at times on Sunday.
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Had to watch it in a Islington pub , which I bloody hated ,spurs fans clapping while eating their 20 pound steaks .
Was not surprised with the outcome .
The money on kozak instead of creative midfielder ,I still don't understand.
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If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
The last two performances have been piss poor.
I think one of the major differences re your McLeish comparison is that with Lambert, he's not a disciple of dour football, he's trying to get us playing attractively and sometimes failing.
McLeish never tried, and that was what was so monumentally depressing about him, he was doing "what he does" and it was never going to be different.
I can remember previous relegations, and some truly terrible Villa sides eeking out poor performances in front or 14k people, and that was horrible at times, but I still maintain, I never had the hope and enjoyment so comprehensively sucked out of supporting Villa as McLeish managed in one single season.
I agree there is clearly a fundamental difference in philsophy between the current regime and the Mcleish era. It might not work all the time, but we do try to win now.
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Had to watch it in a Islington pub , which I bloody hated ,spurs fans clapping while eating their 20 pound steaks .
Was not surprised with the outcome .
The money on kozak instead of creative midfielder ,I still don't understand.
Could have brought that Japanese fellah from Germany
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If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
The last two performances have been piss poor.
I think one of the major differences re your McLeish comparison is that with Lambert, he's not a disciple of dour football, he's trying to get us playing attractively and sometimes failing.
McLeish never tried, and that was what was so monumentally depressing about him, he was doing "what he does" and it was never going to be different.
I can remember previous relegations, and some truly terrible Villa sides eeking out poor performances in front or 14k people, and that was horrible at times, but I still maintain, I never had the hope and enjoyment so comprehensively sucked out of supporting Villa as McLeish managed in one single season.
I agree there is clearly a fundamental difference in philsophy between the current regime and the Mcleish era. It might not work all the time, but we do try to win now.
You normally have to have chances on goal to win.
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If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
The last two performances have been piss poor.
I think one of the major differences re your McLeish comparison is that with Lambert, he's not a disciple of dour football, he's trying to get us playing attractively and sometimes failing.
McLeish never tried, and that was what was so monumentally depressing about him, he was doing "what he does" and it was never going to be different.
I can remember previous relegations, and some truly terrible Villa sides eeking out poor performances in front or 14k people, and that was horrible at times, but I still maintain, I never had the hope and enjoyment so comprehensively sucked out of supporting Villa as McLeish managed in one single season.
I agree there is clearly a fundamental difference in philsophy between the current regime and the Mcleish era. It might not work all the time, but we do try to win now.
You normally have to have chances on goal to win.
And we normally do have chances on goal, and we had at least one golden opportunity yesterday.
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
If he's talking about attacking intent then not that positive. We set out to try and keep the score down, frustrate them and possibly nick a result. We scored three fairly fortunate goals from City falling asleep (and the lino), and didn't have any chances aside.
That was a game where our first thought was defending.
Perhaps against Spurs we should have been a bit more negative and gone 5 at the back. Clark was injured I guess, so maybe we would have had he played. We need to get more width in our side. Is it any wonder our best chances yesterday (few and far between) came from wide positions?
I disagree. For the Man City game Lambert had two of his three main strikers out so rather than play maybe Tonev and possibly leave us a bit vunerable against a very good attacking side, he played it safer and it worked.
But you say we maybe should have played 5 at the back yesterday? Would'nt that have been keeping the score down, the same thing you accused us of doing against City?
I wasn't accusing. I just said it could be argued it was as you put it "playing it safe." Which is more a negative than a positive tactic I'd have thought.
As for yesterday, I thought we set our stall out to be more offensive, but like I said, the will was there but not the skill.
Could we have ground out a 0-0 playing 5 at the back? Maybe. We'd have been tighter defensively on the flanks (we kept City's wide men pretty quiet). It might have nullified Townsend better.
In an attacking sense it probably wouldn't have made us any less effective in all honesty. Lloris had an easy game.
As others have said though, we are trying, which is the major difference between this regime and the last.
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
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Comment from the Guardian - on the money I think. He needs to find a different approach to home games....
Villa struggling to stamp authority at home
So Aston Villa's search for successive home Premier League wins in the same season goes on. August 2010 was the last time it happened. On the face of it there is no crime in being unable to beat Manchester City and Spurs back-to-back. But it was not so much the result against Spurs as the performance. Paul Lambert, the Villa manager, said: "I didn't think there was much in that."
A personal view would be that Spurs were playing within themselves while Villa, until Christian Benteke came on, looked toothless and devoid of ideas. Look at the stats: Villa had 31% possession in the first half, a figure that increased to 37% come the end. In total Villa made 309 passes, Spurs made 532. Villa were the home team. It is hard to know what their game-plan is at times at Villa Park, where they so often struggle to impose themselves on opponents (we've debated the need for a 'No10' before). From the midfield trio through to the three up front, only Fabian Delph emerged with any credit against Spurs. There is no doubt that Lambert will not be impressed that André Villas-Boas, the Spurs manager, talked for the second time this season about Villa playing "long balls".
Villa are not a team that bangs it aimlessly from back to front (not that AVB said they were). And there is no doubt they carry a real threat on the counter-attack. But is there another way of playing that involves keeping the ball more, especially at home?
Stuart James
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
I agree - I didn't think we were that bad and until they scored the second we had the momentum in the game. There was no comparison between that performance and the 4-0 over Christmas last year. They had about 15 corners in the first half alone in that one.
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Comment from the Guardian - on the money I think. He needs to find a different approach to home games....
Villa struggling to stamp authority at home
.... Villa are not a team that bangs it aimlessly from back to front ...
Well, I thought we did yesterday. The mindless surrender of possession by passing it back to Brad so that he could hoof it upfield in the vain hope that Kozak might win something off Dawson drove me mad.
Our game plan at home is beginning to grate with me big time, and I think Lambert needs to think differently. For me, this means having at his disposal:
- wingers that could be deployed in an alternative strategy;
- centrebacks who can pass to a team-member (Baker, take note);
- fullbacks with more energy than Tony Moon;
- a couple of game-changing central midfielders;
- back-up strikers with the speed and / or anticipation to get in front of their markers.
The problem is that he doesn't have the players in the squad currently to change the approach (and having Bowery on the bench seems utterly pointless! He'd be better off with Carruthers, Robinson and Grealish as bring-on players).
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We really shouldn't beat ourselves up to much over this loss, after all spurs are the 3rd best club in London. Let's just move on and give Everton then west ham bloody noses.
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If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
The last two performances have been piss poor.
I think one of the major differences re your McLeish comparison is that with Lambert, he's not a disciple of dour football, he's trying to get us playing attractively and sometimes failing.
McLeish never tried, and that was what was so monumentally depressing about him, he was doing "what he does" and it was never going to be different.
I can remember previous relegations, and some truly terrible Villa sides eeking out poor performances in front or 14k people, and that was horrible at times, but I still maintain, I never had the hope and enjoyment so comprehensively sucked out of supporting Villa as McLeish managed in one single season.
I agree there is clearly a fundamental difference in philsophy between the current regime and the Mcleish era. It might not work all the time, but we do try to win now.
Yesterday it was pretty even until Spurs scored a jammy goal. Then we had to try and push on and got a lot better with Benteke on the pitch. Naturally in trying to push forward it opened us up to a counter attack and frankly Spurs have the guns to take advantage. They scored again with a very good move between two players that cost in the region of 45m. Yesterday, we tried and came up short against a squad that will compete at the top end all season. We're just not at that level. There will be days when we or another side gets it right against the big spending sides. We've done it twice already. It wasn't to be yesterday.
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Comment from the Guardian - on the money I think. He needs to find a different approach to home games....
Villa struggling to stamp authority at home
So Aston Villa's search for successive home Premier League wins in the same season goes on. August 2010 was the last time it happened. On the face of it there is no crime in being unable to beat Manchester City and Spurs back-to-back. But it was not so much the result against Spurs as the performance. Paul Lambert, the Villa manager, said: "I didn't think there was much in that."
A personal view would be that Spurs were playing within themselves while Villa, until Christian Benteke came on, looked toothless and devoid of ideas. Look at the stats: Villa had 31% possession in the first half, a figure that increased to 37% come the end. In total Villa made 309 passes, Spurs made 532. Villa were the home team. It is hard to know what their game-plan is at times at Villa Park, where they so often struggle to impose themselves on opponents (we've debated the need for a 'No10' before). From the midfield trio through to the three up front, only Fabian Delph emerged with any credit against Spurs. There is no doubt that Lambert will not be impressed that André Villas-Boas, the Spurs manager, talked for the second time this season about Villa playing "long balls".
Villa are not a team that bangs it aimlessly from back to front (not that AVB said they were). And there is no doubt they carry a real threat on the counter-attack. But is there another way of playing that involves keeping the ball more, especially at home?
Stuart James
Pretty much bang on, and as I say until I'm blue in the face our struggles tend to occur if we go long. We're successful when we play on the deck.
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Someone mentioned earlier on the thread that the most shocking thing about losing again is that it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. It's getting the same for me
This is exactly how i feel about yesterday. I hate betting on us to lose but at home it's easy money i wish it wasn't and we were solid but sadly we are terrible.
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I don't think we are terrible, more dull, predictable and impotent at home. Away we can be a different kettle of fish, ask the current league leaders.
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We really shouldn't beat ourselves up to much over this loss, after all spurs are the 3rd best club in London. Let's just move on and give Everton then west ham bloody noses.
I think Everton will an even harder proposition than Spurs.
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I think anybody accusing Lambert of being a negative manager hasn't been watching him.
So you think he is positive? On what basis?
Displays against citeh, pool, bar codes, spuds, hull would suggest otherwise. Like others on here I got carried away after the first two games but otherwise we are as poor as last season
You thought the City game wasn't positive? Really?
I nearly didnt include that game in my list. The consensus after the match, including mine was that we got lucky. City dominated thefirst half. You get lucky once in a while, but more often than not (see my list of games) you dont. Yesterday being a case in point.
Lambert doesnt have the quality in the squad, we all know that, due to financial restrictions when compared to the likes of Spurs. However, there is no excuse for a defensive minded approach and the fact that after the Chelsea game we have played poorly. There is a lack of skill, passion, pass and move, ingenuity etc etc. our dead balls, bar Bacuma's free kick, are shocking.
If McLeish has presided over the last few performances this form would be in melt down.
I wouldn't call 4-3-3 defensive minded, I really wouldn't.
You can quote whatever formations you want
I did and it's 4-3-3. What formation would you call it?
I think you were trying to make out we were set up to attack with a 4 3 3. My point was that we werent, we didnt push men forward to seek to attack with any potency. It was defensive no matter what the formation suggested based on the team sheet
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
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Comment from the Guardian - on the money I think. He needs to find a different approach to home games....
Villa struggling to stamp authority at home
So Aston Villa's search for successive home Premier League wins in the same season goes on. August 2010 was the last time it happened. On the face of it there is no crime in being unable to beat Manchester City and Spurs back-to-back. But it was not so much the result against Spurs as the performance. Paul Lambert, the Villa manager, said: "I didn't think there was much in that."
A personal view would be that Spurs were playing within themselves while Villa, until Christian Benteke came on, looked toothless and devoid of ideas. Look at the stats: Villa had 31% possession in the first half, a figure that increased to 37% come the end. In total Villa made 309 passes, Spurs made 532. Villa were the home team. It is hard to know what their game-plan is at times at Villa Park, where they so often struggle to impose themselves on opponents (we've debated the need for a 'No10' before). From the midfield trio through to the three up front, only Fabian Delph emerged with any credit against Spurs. There is no doubt that Lambert will not be impressed that André Villas-Boas, the Spurs manager, talked for the second time this season about Villa playing "long balls".
Villa are not a team that bangs it aimlessly from back to front (not that AVB said they were). And there is no doubt they carry a real threat on the counter-attack. But is there another way of playing that involves keeping the ball more, especially at home?
Stuart James
The Guardian are spot on. Possession says it all
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Someone mentioned earlier on the thread that the most shocking thing about losing again is that it doesn't hurt as much as it used to. It's getting the same for me
This is exactly how i feel about yesterday. I hate betting on us to lose but at home it's easy money i wish it wasn't and we were solid but sadly we are terrible.
And extremely dull too watch
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
Maybe that is sending out a 'message to you Rudy'.
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
or against Newcastle & Norwich both of whom we're supposedly better than
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
or against Newcastle & Norwich both of whom we're supposedly better than
We will finish above hull, Norwich and newcastle .
'Would you bet against us '? , as a wise man once said :)
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
Maybe that is sending out a 'message to you Rudy'.
[/
'Mirror in the bathroom' was a much better record in my view
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
or against Newcastle & Norwich both of whom we're supposedly better than
We will finish above hull, Norwich and newcastle .
'Would you bet against us '? , as a wise man once said :)
I will have a tenner with you that we wont.
Bar, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City (both second half) we have been poor all season.
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It's not the same as the good old days of football , Today's players have 'too much too young ' ;)
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
or against Newcastle & Norwich both of whom we're supposedly better than
We will finish above hull, Norwich and newcastle .
'Would you bet against us '? , as a wise man once said :)
I will have a tenner with you that we wont.
Bar, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City (both second half) we have been poor all season.
I'd put Liverpool away in there as well.
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I always wait for 24 hours-ish before commenting as I tend to be upset and too subjective just after another home defeat.
So it comes down to did Spurs look £100m better than us? No I don't think they did.
Can we play someone crap now please...
We did, Hull, and didnt look any better as a result
or against Newcastle & Norwich both of whom we're supposedly better than
We will finish above hull, Norwich and newcastle .
'Would you bet against us '? , as a wise man once said :)
I will have a tenner with you that we wont.
Bar, Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City (both second half) we have been poor all season.
I'd put Liverpool away in there as well.
Ay?
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The Guardian are spot on. Possession says it all
Yes very bloody spot on Mr James. It's so clever to say the obvious after the event!
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It's not the same as the good old days of football , Today's players have 'too much too young ' ;)
Villa Park hasn't been a 'house of fun' for a long time
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The Guardian are spot on. Possession says it all
Yes very bloody spot on Mr James. It's so clever to say the obvious after the event!
Thought it was a fair summary. He was commenting about the games after it had finished so I guess it would be obvious after the event
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Yes however there is nothing clever about what journos and pundits say after match.
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Getting the distinct impression we aren't going to click until Feb again
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Just thinking about the Everton game now I have semi left my Tottenham depression. Hoping with Benteke starting the whole atmosphere will be different and get a couple of early goals. If Gabby or Benteke had netted against spurs think we might have won that game. We need a massive lift and there is nobody better than Benteke to do just that ......
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I thought towards the end of last season that we were looking a very promising side in the making, our passing was crisp and we kept posession. Although we have had a couple of wins against top clubs i feel that we have gone backwards, players that are not performing are still being picked and the football especially at home is very dull.
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I thought towards the end of last season that we were looking a very promising side in the making, our passing was crisp and we kept posession. Although we have had a couple of wins against top clubs i feel that we have gone backwards, players that are not performing are still being picked and the football especially at home is very dull.
We score more, concede less and get better results, but we're going backwards.
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hmmm. Thought we were a much better team against one that has spent more on players than they received for Bale than we were last year. I was hoping for a better result, but actually thought Westwood and KEA played alright in the middle. KEA has improved slowly and surely against the player I saw for most of last season.
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I thought towards the end of last season that we were looking a very promising side in the making, our passing was crisp and we kept posession. Although we have had a couple of wins against top clubs i feel that we have gone backwards, players that are not performing are still being picked and the football especially at home is very dull.
We score more, concede less and get better results, but we're going backwards.
Our passing certainly has gone backwards. Normally to Guzan.
Eh thank you.
No, I think the fact our passing has been largely bobbins is that we've played all but 1 of the top 6 sides in our first 8 games. We're always going to struggle to keep the ball on the rare times we get it back. Top teams don't give you time and space. If you want to beat them for possession it becomes a battle of technique, skill and passing ability, which we're always going to lose against top 6 sides. There's only one stat that matters of course, come the end and in all honesty winning 3 games thus far isn't bad going.
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I thought towards the end of last season that we were looking a very promising side in the making, our passing was crisp and we kept posession. Although we have had a couple of wins against top clubs i feel that we have gone backwards, players that are not performing are still being picked and the football especially at home is very dull.
We score more, concede less and get better results, but we're going backwards.
And stats never lie? I just know what i see and that is a team that consistantly has lower possession than the opposition especially at home. That tells me we cannot hold onto the ball, highlighted in the Spurs game.
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If you know what you'd seen this season, then you would be able to recognise we have played Arsenal away, Chelsea away, Liverpool at home, Man City at home and Spurs at home.
What is it about those hundred million pound teams, with their twenty million pound signings that you think gives them the edge over us 3 times out of 5? That’s a hundred million pound question if ever I say one.
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I don't think we've gone backwards. I think we're getting better albeit slowly. The defence looks a lot more organised than last season and I think 10 points is probably roughly what people would have expected us to be on so far anyway. Personally I think we should have beaten Hull but other than that, it's gone pretty much as i'd expected.
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I have to agree with the poster above, we may be picking up more points on a match for match comparison with last season. But nobody will convince me we're progressing as a football side.
We still play woeful football in the majority of games this season, there's very little to cling onto in terms of seeing some footballing progression or a style being put in place either (unless you class counter attacking as a welcome style of course)
I'm amazed that Lambert hasn't got something in place by now, he must've spent nearly 35m-40m over the two big windows on developing his side. Big Ron and Little moulded teams with a style within much shorter periods (both by the time their first full seasons hit the ground at least)
The only things pundits seem to have us pegged as are counter attacking, long ball merchants with little chance of dominating possession. Which they seem to be able to back up with stats. We may have fluked a few wins against two bigger sides, but surely that isn't fooling anyone that watches us regularly ?
I'd say the Hull/Newcastle games are more the real us, and that worries me greatly.
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I thought towards the end of last season that we were looking a very promising side in the making, our passing was crisp and we kept posession. Although we have had a couple of wins against top clubs i feel that we have gone backwards, players that are not performing are still being picked and the football especially at home is very dull.
We score more, concede less and get better results, but we're going backwards.
And stats never lie? I just know what i see and that is a team that consistantly has lower possession than the opposition especially at home. That tells me we cannot hold onto the ball, highlighted in the Spurs game.
Nobody used to mention possession until TV coverage started flashing it up at every opportunity. The day you get points for artistic interpretation will be the day I worry about any figure except goals.
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I have to agree with the poster above, we may be picking up more points on a match for match comparison with last season. But nobody will convince me we're progressing as a football side.
We still play woeful football in the majority of games this season, there's very little to cling onto in terms of seeing some footballing progression or a style being put in place either (unless you class counter attacking as a welcome style of course)
I'm amazed that Lambert hasn't got something in place by now, he must've spent nearly 35m-40m over the two big windows on developing his side. Big Ron and Little moulded teams with a style within much shorter periods (both by the time their first full seasons hit the ground at least)
The only things pundits seem to have us pegged as are counter attacking, long ball merchants with little chance of dominating possession. Which they seem to be able to back up with stats. We may have fluked a few wins against two bigger sides, but surely that isn't fooling anyone that watches us regularly ?
I'd say the Hull/Newcastle games are more the real us, and that worries me greatly.
Our wins are flukes and our draws/defeats are the 'real' us. Nice one.
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You're being too kind Dave, utter bollocks is an accurate description of the myth he is peddling.
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In the eras of Brian Little and Ron Atkinson there was a more level playing field. It was much more feasible to go out and buy players capable of performing at the top end of the table.
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In the eras of Brian Little and Ron Atkinson there was a more level playing field. It was much more feasible to go out and buy players capable of performing at the top end of the table.
Big Ron bought players with PL experience in his tenure. No wonder we hit the ground running.
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Do you know, I was struggling to remember what Randy Lerner looked like this morning so little have we seen of him over the past two seasons, still thats probably an age thing. I do know what Doug looks like because he is at every game. But forget that, Lerner is not able, or willing, to put sufficient funds into the club to make a noticable change in our fortunes. Which leaves us in the position of teams like Fulham,West Brom,Everton and Southampton having to find players around the world who are cheap and can fit into a system.
We had great hopes when Lambert arrived that he would have the contacts, especially in Germany, to find this type of player. Players with technical skill and intelligence. We, or rather I, was wrong.
Take Benteke out of the equation and we havent seen too much. Okore maybe will be a top flight pro in time but we dont know that for sure.
If he had the money it would be interesting to see who he would buy. I just dont know if Lambert is making progress . We should have a clear view by Christmas and I hope we are not going to be disappointed.
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Our improvement at the end of last season appeared to me to coincide with us becoming more aggressive and playing higher up the pitch, meaning we were harassing the opponent as soon as he got the ball. This season we do not appear to be doing this as much, in fact on sunday when Lloris had the ball Gabby and Andi were running backwards into our half of the field to mark their wingers! This resulted in their defence and Sandro having a free option of what pass to pick as they were under no pressure whatsoever.
This, to me, is the biggest disappointment - us playing a containing game from the first whistle and hoping to hit teams on the break. Ok we are perhaps not conceding as many goals this season but the stats still show that we do concede virtually every game and then we are usually playing catch up to try and equalise.
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In the eras of Brian Little and Ron Atkinson there was a more level playing field. It was much more feasible to go out and buy players capable of performing at the top end of the table.
Big Ron bought players with PL experience in his tenure. No wonder we hit the ground running.
No he didn't. Name me one player with any Premier League experience that he bought.
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Our wins are flukes and our draws/defeats are the 'real' us. Nice one.
Well, with your hand on heart. Which games do you think more honestly reflect our sides performance this season ?
Arsenal/Man City or Hull/Newcastle ?
To me it's the latter. To you maybe it's the former. Does that mean we can't have a difference of opinion as fellow Villa supporters ?
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Our wins are flukes and our draws/defeats are the 'real' us. Nice one.
Well, with your hand on heart. Which games do you think more honestly reflect our sides performance this season ?
Arsenal/Man City or Hull/Newcastle ?
To me it's the latter. To you maybe it's the former. Does that mean we can't have a difference of opinion as fellow Villa supporters ?
The fact that we've had as many good performances as bad ones would indicate that we're inconsistent rather than good or bad.
Is anybody stopping you from having this "difference of opinion"?
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Not as such no, but in terms of you can't say we've played awful if we win without some folks erupting then yes. Some people can't separate the two discussions as seen over recent months. The style of play thead went from being about our 'style of play' to a 'how can you say we played bad when we won' quite quickly.
But I am interested to know which of those suggestions in post above you think sum us up best ?
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No he didn't. Name me one player with any Premier League experience that he bought.
Staunton ?
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Not as such no, but in terms of you can't say we've played awful if we win without some folks erupting then yes. Some people can't separate the two discussions as seen over recent months. The style of play thead went from being about our 'style of play' to a 'how can you say we played bad when we won' quite quickly.
But I am interested to know which of those suggestions in post above you think sum us up best ?
I've told you - inconsistent.
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No he didn't. Name me one player with any Premier League experience that he bought.
Staunton ?
actually, come to think of it that technically not Premier League is it
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According to Wiki BFR's second place for us in the first PL season is the highest ever for an English manager in the history of the PL [equalled by Keegan]
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In the eras of Brian Little and Ron Atkinson there was a more level playing field. It was much more feasible to go out and buy players capable of performing at the top end of the table.
Big Ron bought players with PL experience in his tenure. No wonder we hit the ground running.
No he didn't. Name me one player with any Premier League experience that he bought.
Staunton, Parker, Cyrill? Unless you're referring to the top flight being called another name?
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The Premier League only started in BFR's second season. BFR bought lots of experienced FIRST DIVISION footballers - Dalian Atkinson, Kevin Richardson, Ray Houghton, Dean Saunders, Cyrille Regis, Garry Parker, Earl Barrett in his first two seasons alone - and we later ended up with John Fashanu, Andy Townsend and Phil King. That's one thing that was levelled at BFR when it started to go wrong for him, the average age of his experienced team was 30+. Brian Little came in and introduced a more youthful side - the only real experienced players in the side were Townsend, McGrath, Bosnich and Yorke (although the last two were still in their twenties at the time).
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It doesn't matter what it was called it was still the top flight.
If they changed the name in December to the SKY champions fest and we purchased Suarez would you seriously claim he has no experience in playing in the SKY champions fest division....
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We have scored more goals, conceded fewer goals having played 5 of the top 5. Ironically, our poorest display came against Newcastle at home and our best in a game we also lost, but were robbed in.
We’re unsurprisingly inconsistent and mid-table as a consequence. This is an improvement on the past two seasons.
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Pedanticism over, the one major advantage BFR had over any other Villa manger, ever, was that he was able to immediately sell a player for one of the highest fees ever then paid anywhere in the world. He also, and this is incredible to think even now, suckered Celtic into paying way over the odds for Cascarino. It was like Spurs not only having the Bale money, but also selling Adebayor for another £20 million. He also, let's not forget, had an average first season and a relegation-standard final twelve months. For all the money he spent, Ron only gave us 18 good months.
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Our improvement at the end of last season...
Note our form from February on. We were "the best of the rest" and did the likes of West Ham, Reading et al, but lost all games home and away against the top six, Everton the exception (but then we have a cracking record up there).
This season, we have played almost exclusively the top six and have bettered the results in a few and conceded fewer goals along the way. These sides will beat us more often than not. The fact we stuck three past Arsenal and three past Man City is tangible evidence of improvement.
We may have had to moderate the way we play; I thought Man City was very different from Lambert’s usual approach, but then that doesn’t make our approach exceptional in the context of the league.
Look at the Bitters; capable of being turned over at home with some awful performances, but also capable of beating or holding decent sides. Suffering tedious 0-0 draws along the way too. Why? They’re a mid-table club. So are we.
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In the eras of Brian Little and Ron Atkinson there was a more level playing field. It was much more feasible to go out and buy players capable of performing at the top end of the table.
Big Ron bought players with PL experience in his tenure. No wonder we hit the ground running.
No he didn't. Name me one player with any Premier League experience that he bought.
Staunton, Parker, Cyrill? Unless you're referring to the top flight being called another name?
Kevin Richardson as well. All players with top flight experience (not PL. Naughty me).
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Our improvement at the end of last season...
Note our form from February on. We were "the best of the rest" and did the likes of West Ham, Reading et al, but lost all games home and away against the top six, Everton the exception (but then we have a cracking record up there).
This season, we have played almost exclusively the top six and have bettered the results in a few and conceded fewer goals along the way. These sides will beat us more often than not. The fact we stuck three past Arsenal and three past Man City is tangible evidence of improvement.
We may have had to moderate the way we play; I thought Man City was very different from Lambert’s usual approach, but then that doesn’t make our approach exceptional in the context of the league.
Look at the Bitters; capable of being turned over at home with some awful performances, but also capable of beating or holding decent sides. Suffering tedious 0-0 draws along the way too. Why? They’re a mid-table club. So are we.
Thats about it. Mid table club and not much hope of progressing higher. The kind of club that Fulham are season after season and Coventry in the distant past. A bit depressing really but in reality what we should expect.
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Our improvement at the end of last season...
Note our form from February on. We were "the best of the rest" and did the likes of West Ham, Reading et al, but lost all games home and away against the top six, Everton the exception (but then we have a cracking record up there).
This season, we have played almost exclusively the top six and have bettered the results in a few and conceded fewer goals along the way. These sides will beat us more often than not. The fact we stuck three past Arsenal and three past Man City is tangible evidence of improvement.
We may have had to moderate the way we play; I thought Man City was very different from Lambert’s usual approach, but then that doesn’t make our approach exceptional in the context of the league.
Look at the Bitters; capable of being turned over at home with some awful performances, but also capable of beating or holding decent sides. Suffering tedious 0-0 draws along the way too. Why? They’re a mid-table club. So are we.
Thats about it. Mid table club and not much hope of progressing higher. The kind of club that Fulham are season after season and Coventry in the distant past. A bit depressing really but in reality what we should expect.
This is what really pisses me off - the idea that league positions have suddenly been cast in stone and we will never progress. Where we are now is where we've been at regular intervals in the past thirty years and every single time we've got better, so why the situation should change now is beyond me.
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That's your opinion Ron Manager and its not one I agree with.
I don't think its possible for us to progress from the bottom six to top six in a season without spending more than the clubs who currently occupy those slots. We tried that and could neither afford nor sustain it.
The alternative is a slower approach and this appears to be the problem for a lot of fans. They can see irrefutable evidence of progress, but it isn't happening at the speed they would like.
If we have invested £40 million to buy 12-15 players to completely re-build the squad over two summers, with a wholesale change to the way the club operates, then I personally don't see that as being something that requires repeating summer after summer. Randy appears to be willing for the club to spend circa £20 million per summer, so why will it not be a case of next season, we spend that outlay not on building a squad, but refining it? Why will we not spend the Benteke money on top on say three £10 million pound players to supplement the squad, who will be a year older and wiser? Clark has certainly benefitted. I think Delph has too.
I think we will achieve mid-table this season and continue to be inconsistent while we're at it. I completely disagree that the strategy is a failure and that we have no chance of improving. It’s a long term plan, let it work its course, as there is no alternative.
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That's your opinion Ron Manager and its not one I agree with.
I don't think its possible for us to progress from the bottom six to top six in a season without spending more than the clubs who currently occupy those slots. We tried that and could neither afford nor sustain it.
The alternative is a slower approach and this appears to be the problem for a lot of fans. They can see irrefutable evidence of progress, but it isn't happening at the speed they would like.
If we have invested £40 million to buy 12-15 players to completely re-build the squad over two summers, with a wholesale change to the way the club operates, then I personally don't see that as being something that requires repeating summer after summer. Randy appears to be willing for the club to spend circa £20 million per summer, so why will it not be a case of next season, we spend that outlay not on building a squad, but refining it? Why will we not spend the Benteke money on top on say three £10 million pound players to supplement the squad, who will be a year older and wiser? Clark has certainly benefitted. I think Delph has too.
I think we will achieve mid-table this season and continue to be inconsistent while we're at it. I completely disagree that the strategy is a failure and that we have no chance of improving. It’s a long term plan, let it work its course, as there is no alternative.
You are right to say there is no alternative, there isn't. So we had better hope Paul Lambert provides some kind of success.I hope he does.
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We're playing like excitable untrained dogs a lot of the time at the moment. It's like having a mutt on a lead, trying to wrench itself free from you and you have to reign it in. You toss a biscuit 30 yards in front of you, let go of the dog and it just flies off at 90mph after the biscuit, inevitably overruning, or in it's mad scramble to get hold of the biscuit juggling it around and not getting a bite. Then some higher class breed with better training casually strolls along, picks up the biscuit and happily eats it, while your dog starts nipping and jumping around the other dog, expending a lot of energy and not getting anywhere.
So basically. Send the whole squad to dog training school. ;D
But seriously we just have to calm it down sometimes. Maintain some composure. Again, this is something that as a very young squad, we should hopefully improve upon. We're always in a rush. Inevitably playing the top 6 thus far we've basically had a third of the possession generally. When we get the ball we try to break at full speed normally. Now Arsenal couldn't handle it. They hadn't fully returned from their hols I don't think. The problem is, if we go from soaking up in defence to then trying to shift straight into top gear, more often than not it doesn't work. I know we beat City, but come on, that game was just a head scratching anomaly. Christ knows how we pulled that off, but it's one of those one game a season sort of matches. We scored 3 goals in a game we never really looked like scoring in.
If there's no decent pass on then you can't rush it. Keep the ball. Try again. If it ends up going back to Guzan, it shouldn't then be punted straight up to the CF 9 times out of 10. If there's one thing we've actually regressed on from the latter part of last season, it's composure. Our movement off the ball is poorer than it was last season. That needs to get back.
Also at the moment certain players need a spell out because they're proving ineffectual. Westwood and Weimann two prime candidates. Andreas works his nuts off and gives his all but he's fluffed a couple of dozen chances this season. He gets 2-3 chances a game. Sometimes decent, some times half chances but he's fluffing his lines. I think he needs a few games on the bench. Tonev conversely looked confident when he came on. Perhaps time to be him in and he can also provide some width too.
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Well there is an alternative and that is untenable to me being an old'un - Red Bull Villa. Or similar. Or sell to big money a la Citeh.
Otherwise I agree that we just 'go again'.
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I have to agree with the poster above, we may be picking up more points on a match for match comparison with last season. But nobody will convince me we're progressing as a football side.
We still play woeful football in the majority of games this season, there's very little to cling onto in terms of seeing some footballing progression or a style being put in place either (unless you class counter attacking as a welcome style of course)
I'm amazed that Lambert hasn't got something in place by now, he must've spent nearly 35m-40m over the two big windows on developing his side. Big Ron and Little moulded teams with a style within much shorter periods (both by the time their first full seasons hit the ground at least)
The only things pundits seem to have us pegged as are counter attacking, long ball merchants with little chance of dominating possession. Which they seem to be able to back up with stats. We may have fluked a few wins against two bigger sides, but surely that isn't fooling anyone that watches us regularly ?
I'd say the Hull/Newcastle games are more the real us, and that worries me greatly.
Agree with all that
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I'll admit that Sunday pissed me off because of the back-to-Guzan regularity and the expectation that Kozak would get anything out of Dawson in the air. I was annoyed because Spurs scored a jaxy first goal. It irritated me that the players seemed static and unsupporting of the man with the ball. I winced that Lambert had not got something different and tactic-changing on the bench, other than Benteke (not all his fault, but continuing to put Bowery there does seem a little odd).
There were some good take-outs from the game, though, which demonstrate progress:
- Delph looks like a class act
- KEA has improved significantly
- Bacuna will develop into a great right MF player
- we do look tighter at the back, notwithstanding the goals we conceded on Sunday.
As others have said, the inconsistency is there and is a function of being a squad in transition.
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I have to agree with the poster above, we may be picking up more points on a match for match comparison with last season. But nobody will convince me we're progressing as a football side.
We still play woeful football in the majority of games this season, there's very little to cling onto in terms of seeing some footballing progression or a style being put in place either (unless you class counter attacking as a welcome style of course)
I'm amazed that Lambert hasn't got something in place by now, he must've spent nearly 35m-40m over the two big windows on developing his side. Big Ron and Little moulded teams with a style within much shorter periods (both by the time their first full seasons hit the ground at least)
The only things pundits seem to have us pegged as are counter attacking, long ball merchants with little chance of dominating possession. Which they seem to be able to back up with stats. We may have fluked a few wins against two bigger sides, but surely that isn't fooling anyone that watches us regularly ?
I'd say the Hull/Newcastle games are more the real us, and that worries me greatly.
Agree with all that
Arsenal wasn't fluky. We genuinely deserved to win that and could have won more emphatically still.
We've not looked nearly as effective in attack since, which is a worry. We never really looked like scoring against Lpool. Chelsea we didn't create enough. Newcastle barely anything of note. Likewise Hull. Man City was bizarre. How we score 3 goals I don't know. Pelligrini will still be scratching his head on that one when he's on his death bed. Norwich we scraped a win without much conviction but in all honesty, scraping a few 1-0s is something we need to get in our arsenal again. We can't try to win every game 3-2.
Again though we're trying to run before we can walk. No width. We're rushing passes, we're trying to be at full pelt all the time but it doesn't work.
If you focus the majority of your attack through the center you have to be far more technically able than our squad is. We've got to expand our play and get it wide more. Utilise our pace better. For want of a better description, we've got to play more like we did under O Neill. A lot of our goals have come from wide areas. We started exploiting the wings more in the tail end of last season and it was paying off.
The ultimate goal might be for us to be more like Arsenal for example and be a slick, passing side, but until we buy 2-3 better midfielders and a couple of cultured wide men, that's an impossible dream.
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I am amazed by how some posters completely discount wins against man city and Arsenal as a blip and defeats against Liverpool and Spurs as real us to rubbish the players and the Manager. Beating Arsenal and City after being behind is nothing of course in their eyes. Well let's see how many others are going to do that this season? They also conveniently forget that we should have won at Chelsea and were never in danger of losing the match at Hull and should have won it if Gabby had a bit of luck.
Equal bollox is that Lambert has failed to find any golden nuggets from Europe with a limp excuse that Benteke was just luck. If so how many Managers for us or other clubs either now or in the past have turned up 4/5 massive players from nothing in a season?
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Defence is getting better but could it have got any worse , it was awful last season. Not sure If the rest of the team has got better, a lot of players so far have gone backwards and other than Bacuna , not sure of any of the other signings being better than what we had.
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Luna.
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Vlaar is better than last year as is Luna an upgrade on Bennett. In fact Vlaar would be even better with Okore at his side. KEA is better, delph has come on leaps and bounds and with Benteke back it will help Weimann. Gabby has been a bit below par and one or two players are having a second season dip in form. That said given our schedule it's not like in any game we have been blown out of the water like last season.
It does make me laugh to think that some people actually believe at PL level we are lucky when we win.
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Luna.
well yes hes better than Bennett , but that was not hard , I think Konchesky would be better, so yes the full backs have improved our defence ( at times ) but even Luna has been awful at times , his positioning sometimes is terrible .
p.s i keep hearing about £100 million spurs spent , it did not look like £100 million the game before when west ham spanked them 3-0 with no striker and their best player by far at the moment was free .
These teams can be beat , I just find us so dull to watch at home , Im hoping it all clicks soon.
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Nobody used to mention possession until TV coverage started flashing it up at every opportunity. The day you get points for artistic interpretation will be the day I worry about any figure except goals.
To be fair, whilst there are obvious exceptions the stats generally support the fact that greater possession = more points (http://footballblog.co.uk/possession-game.html). Logic also dictates that when we have the ball the opposition almost certainly won't score and when they have the ball we almost certainly won't score. The ease with which we give the ball away at home is bordering on criminal.
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Nobody used to mention possession until TV coverage started flashing it up at every opportunity. The day you get points for artistic interpretation will be the day I worry about any figure except goals.
To be fair, whilst there are obvious exceptions the stats generally support the fact that greater possession = more points (http://footballblog.co.uk/possession-game.html). Logic also dictates that when we have the ball the opposition almost certainly won't score and when they have the ball we almost certainly won't score. The ease with which we give the ball away at home is bordering on criminal.
Maybe, but to keep on about possession while ignoring the fact that we actually won the game strikes me as moaning for the sake of it.
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Nobody used to mention possession until TV coverage started flashing it up at every opportunity. The day you get points for artistic interpretation will be the day I worry about any figure except goals.
To be fair, whilst there are obvious exceptions the stats generally support the fact that greater possession = more points (http://footballblog.co.uk/possession-game.html). Logic also dictates that when we have the ball the opposition almost certainly won't score and when they have the ball we almost certainly won't score. The ease with which we give the ball away at home is bordering on criminal.
Indeed, it's a very good tactic. However, Dortmund show how it's not always crucial: they sometimes get 70% possession, and they sometimes get 45%, and they have a way to win on either type of occasion. It's all about who you're playing.
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If we'd have won 4-1 at Chelsea, they couldn't have complained. Cech made two brilliant point blank saves from Andi.
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p.s i keep hearing about £100 million spurs spent , it did not look like £100 million the game before when west ham spanked them 3-0 with no striker and their best player by far at the moment was free .
Of course they can be beat, we have beaten two of them, probably the best two sides in the league, but more often than not, their quality will see them through. Its no coincidence that they're all near the top.
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Nobody used to mention possession until TV coverage started flashing it up at every opportunity. The day you get points for artistic interpretation will be the day I worry about any figure except goals.
To be fair, whilst there are obvious exceptions the stats generally support the fact that greater possession = more points (http://footballblog.co.uk/possession-game.html). Logic also dictates that when we have the ball the opposition almost certainly won't score and when they have the ball we almost certainly won't score. The ease with which we give the ball away at home is bordering on criminal.
Indeed, it's a very good tactic. However, Dortmund show how it's not always crucial: they sometimes get 70% possession, and they sometimes get 45%, and they have a way to win on either type of occasion. It's all about who you're playing.
It's the former part we need get better at, most certainly at home.
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Luna, Bacuna and Okore are all better players than those we had last season in similar positions.
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Luna I thought played well in attack against Spurs. He kept trying to drive us forward. Defensively he has work to do but in the first half he did keep Townsend reasonably quiet. It's just as Spurs took control in the second half, and Townsend grew into the game Luna was, as per normal, left a bit isolated. Again, much like Ben Arfa against Newcastle, this was something happening that Lambert didn't really address as the game went on. It's something that he's got to improve on.
This is why the City game we looked fairly solid on the flanks through most of the game. There was always support on either side because of our midfield, or that third CH helping out. Our fullbacks didn't get isolated.
I don't think the wing back system is the way to go at all but what might help is to have Delph and Sylla both playing from the off to provide the legs to help cover, and play with at least one wider player, be it Albrighton or Bacuna, who can cover the full back on whichever side their on. Decent teams target our wings and have a lot of joy.
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I know a lot don't like the wing back formation, but I'm all for it personally. I don't think it is overly negative as it would be negated by some of the midfield being further upfield, whilst remaining solid. It would also mean Weimann/Gabby could play off The Beast, in their actual role.
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We need to get Sylla into the midfield. He is physical, quick and can put a tackle in; essentially he can do everything that Delph does now, leaving him to play ten yards higher up the pitch. Delph has been gliding through midfields for fun, we need to be doing all we can to get our players who have an attacking intent within them higher up the park, where he can get shots off or make runs into the box.
When do you see our midfield actually hitting the box? Delph is the answer, with the addition of Sylla.
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I know a lot don't like the wing back formation, but I'm all for it personally. I don't think it is overly negative as it would be negated by some of the midfield being further upfield, whilst remaining solid. It would also mean Weimann/Gabby could play off The Beast, in their actual role.
I think it certainly has a place. It's especially good when you're against a team playing 4-4-2, because assuming your wingbacks have the stamina to keep getting up and down the pitch you'll have 3 CBs against their 2 strikers, 5 midfielders against their 4, and you still get to have 2 strikers. Like we saw against City, you can easily drop back into a very solid block thats hard to break down. Against a weaker team the wingbacks can push right up and the whole formation becomes very attacking. I actually think if we'd played 3-5-2 against Hull we'd have won.
As we saw against Chelsea last season, however, The problem comes when the opposition plays with 5 in midfield, or when your midfielders don't cover for the WBs enough, because then they either get pinned back or overloaded by the opposition's wide players.
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We need to get Sylla into the midfield. He is physical, quick and can put a tackle in; essentially he can do everything that Delph does now, leaving him to play ten yards higher up the pitch. Delph has been gliding through midfields for fun, we need to be doing all we can to get our players who have an attacking intent within them higher up the park, where he can get shots off or make runs into the box.
When do you see our midfield actually hitting the box? Delph is the answer, with the addition of Sylla.
Ballers be preachin' truth.
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We need to get Sylla into the midfield. He is physical, quick and can put a tackle in; essentially he can do everything that Delph does now, leaving him to play ten yards higher up the pitch. Delph has been gliding through midfields for fun, we need to be doing all we can to get our players who have an attacking intent within them higher up the park, where he can get shots off or make runs into the box.
When do you see our midfield actually hitting the box? Delph is the answer, with the addition of Sylla.
I agree with this.Give Westwood/Wiemann a rest and leave Gabby up front with Benteke.
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Can I just say that I hate losing to Spurzzzz and no doubt my yiddo Brother (I call him yiddo and it doesn't offend him) will call me this weekend to talk about the game (luckily it was early Monday morning over here and he is in the US, so he couldn't call me after the game).
Anyway, I haven't seen any highlights and don't want to, but I think we are slowly improving this season and we have had a very tough start, as well as been unlucky with injuries. I think as long as we keep improving and the players get more experienced, things will get better.