Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ozzjim on September 23, 2013, 12:42:54 PM
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How do we think we are doing then?
What would you like to see from the next 5 games? I love chunking the season into 5 games at a time, and the threads last season were great at watching our progress so this is the start of that...
I was surprised to see that after 4 games last season we had 4 points, and had just been battered 4-1 at Southampton. Having played West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Swansea and Southampton we had 1 win. This season we are 2 points better off, having had a significantly tougher opening 5 games. We then lost 2 and drew 2 of the next 4, going into the 10th game with Sunderland on just 6 points, and having only played Spurs from the top 5 the previous season. Having already played Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, and with City and Spurs in the next few where will we be?
I would be happy with 12 points and accepting of 10 after the next 5 I have to say. 3 are at home, against City, Spurs and Everton, all 3 in very good form, with Hull and West ham away. I think it is almost as tough as our opening 5 to be honest, especially with how much we struggle at home.
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I think it's important we don't get ahead of ourselves in terms of development. We have chosen not to go down the road of bringing in very high priced players that might accelerate that progress, but also heighten expectation, often unfairly. We have players that are growing together, but unlike last season we started from a much better position. It has shown despite the defeats this season that we are better equipped to compete this season. We'll still get a good beating at times, but I don't think the after affects will be sustained as long as they were last season. It's such a shame that Okore got injured because it will slow down our progress, although it has been encouraging to see Clark not seem overawed in the games he's in to as replacement.
Like everyone, still concerned with the home form, but if we can figure out a way to play at home then it will be a massive boost to our intention this season. Away from home, we can beat anyone on our day. I wouldn't change much about what we do there. Quietly confident that we are very much moving in the right direction and encouraged by the development of the club and of certain players that have come on leaps and bounds.
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The team has carried on the progress from the end of last season, which is good. Very hard to call a trend though based on these games. One great (and unexpected) result, two valiant losses, one stinker, one uncharacteristic narrow win/clean sheet. And loads of injuries.
The worrying stuff is the similarities with last season - crazy substitutions when behind, benteke reliance, defensive crapness. I think we're in for another rocky year with a fair few peaks and troughs.
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I'm not sure there is any on going progress, is there ?
From week to week we look either great or shit or somewhere in between the two. Pretty much as we've always been. There's certainly no consistency or a level of performance we rarely dip below to call it progress in my mind
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How do we think we are doing then?
What would you like to see from the next 5 games? I love chunking the season into 5 games at a time, and the threads last season were great at watching our progress so this is the start of that...
I was surprised to see that after 4 games last season we had 4 points, and had just been battered 4-1 at Southampton. Having played West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Swansea and Southampton we had 1 win. This season we are 2 points better off, having had a significantly tougher opening 5 games. We then lost 2 and drew 2 of the next 4, going into the 10th game with Sunderland on just 6 points, and having only played Spurs from the top 5 the previous season. Having already played Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, and with City and Spurs in the next few where will we be?
I would be happy with 12 points and accepting of 10 after the next 5 I have to say. 3 are at home, against City, Spurs and Everton, all 3 in very good form, with Hull and West ham away. I think it is almost as tough as our opening 5 to be honest, especially with how much we struggle at home.
Happy with 12 and accepting of 10? I would be delighted with 10 points from the next 5 games - it would be very good indeed!
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How do we think we are doing then?
What would you like to see from the next 5 games? I love chunking the season into 5 games at a time, and the threads last season were great at watching our progress so this is the start of that...
I was surprised to see that after 4 games last season we had 4 points, and had just been battered 4-1 at Southampton. Having played West Ham, Everton, Newcastle, Swansea and Southampton we had 1 win. This season we are 2 points better off, having had a significantly tougher opening 5 games. We then lost 2 and drew 2 of the next 4, going into the 10th game with Sunderland on just 6 points, and having only played Spurs from the top 5 the previous season. Having already played Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, and with City and Spurs in the next few where will we be?
I would be happy with 12 points and accepting of 10 after the next 5 I have to say. 3 are at home, against City, Spurs and Everton, all 3 in very good form, with Hull and West ham away. I think it is almost as tough as our opening 5 to be honest, especially with how much we struggle at home.
Happy with 12 and accepting of 10? I would be delighted with 10 points from the next 5 games - it would be very good indeed!
I clearly meant in total after those games Mr West.
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Comparing the 5 games v same opposition last season would have us on 3 points and with a minus 11 goal difference.
Therefore we look as if we have made progress.
We need to up the ante at home mind and playing the better teams may be a help because they will come to play.
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I think we're doing ok. As I said on another thread, the difference last season between where we finished and eight place was only a couple of wins. If we are to finish mid table this season it will resemble last season pretty much. The actual difference between West Broms good season and our bad season was a couple of results, but the perception is that there was a massive difference.
What we could do with is not being down near the bottom for too long, so that we can shed our image as perennial strugglers. The way that we have started and the way points are currently distributed suggests we should be alright on that score. I reckon so far we look like the mid-table we should reasonably expect to be.
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The home form is a major concern for me.
I'm struggling to see where a win is going to come from the Man City, Spurs and Everton matches.
It's a good job our away record is so good at the moment.
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It's a tough balancing act, but we have a basis for a squad now and not many who need to be shipped out. We need to start using transfer windows in future to add real quality.
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I would like to see us improve our home form but I'm fairly happy with how it as gone so far we've had some very tough games so far but I expect us to push on and get better the players have had a season together and the new ones seem to be settling in so I think what we are doing will come good.
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Have to say i would be pretty disappointed with four points from any five premier league matches- especially with three home games. I think the home form will come, can see us getting a win, loss and a draw from the three plus a win and a loss away.
Progress? Three points and a pride-restoring display at Chelsea up on last seasons correspoding fixtures. Overall, slightly disappointed, personally allowed myself to get over-optimistic pre season, have been dealt one or two doses of reality already.
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Should be about small targets for us. Our next win (providing we don't draw between now and then) would take us to 9 points. 20 points by the end of December is halfway to 40.
If Benteke is out for any length of time at all, that will hurt us significantly. Okore already looks to be a big loss. So under the circumstances, I'd be absolutely delighted to get to the end of December on 20-25 points.
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Our next win (providing we don't draw between now and then) would take us to 9 points. 20 points by the end of December is halfway to 40.
Bleedin' nora, the club really have done a grand job in lowering your expectations!
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Sorry ozz , thought you were talking about how many from the next 5 games , i would expect 4 from hull and west ham away and maybe 4 at best from the 3 home games giving us 14 in total after 10 games which would have seen us play 5 of the 6 teams expected to be up at the top.
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Our next win (providing we don't draw between now and then) would take us to 9 points. 20 points by the end of December is halfway to 40.
Bleedin' nora, the club really have done a grand job in lowering your expectations!
It's the way it has to be for the time being.
We are one of a number of clubs now whose first target is to get to 40 points.
Depending on how quickly we achieve that, we can then look at other options.
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I think to say we haven't made progress is very unfair based on what we have seen so far. I also think it is very unfair to suggest we are very inconsistent and we are still terrible at the back. So far we have played well in 4 of the 5 games and the defence only looked shakey in that game too. It's too early to say we have turned a corner but the signs are there. If we take 7 points from our next 5 that would be a good return and should see us around 10th, ready to kick on with a decent run of fixtures up until Chrismas.
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The home form is a major concern for me.
I'm struggling to see where a win is going to come from the Man City, Spurs and Everton matches.
It's a good job our away record is so good at the moment.
I actually fancy us more against the better sides at home. It's the games where the onus is on us to open up teams where I think we will struggle.
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Citeh,Spuds,toffees, we will win one draw lose one,and ill be ok with that.
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I think to say we haven't made progress is very unfair based on what we have seen so far. I also think it is very unfair to suggest we are very inconsistent and we are still terrible at the back. So far we have played well in 4 of the 5 games and the defence only looked shakey in that game too. It's too early to say we have turned a corner but the signs are there. If we take 7 points from our next 5 that would be a good return and should see us around 10th, ready to kick on with a decent run of fixtures up until Chrismas.
I guess this depends on your definition of 'played well'. A lot was made of the Chelsea performance and us being plucky losers, but we didn't have a shot until Benteke scored just before half time. The first 45 against Liverpool was as BAD as anything we've seen over the previous two seasons and Newcastle was turgid. There's no way Saturday's performance was anything above average either. So what are these great performances and signs of improvement ?
Well to my eyes anyway. Mind you one of our regular gang sees nothing but good things either.
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What I couldn't understand was the additional midfielder at home against Newcastle and the just playing 2 in midfield v Norwich away. Surely we are best off going at it at home than away?!?!
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We're clearly better than last year, but there will still be performances as bad as those of last year. This is mostly because we have the same problems, especially with Okore's injury: defensive lapses and unimaginative midfield displays. The style of the team hasn't changed (for reasons explored ad nauseam), but we are better at what we do. I don't think we'll be in much relegation difficulty.
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3 clean sheets please.
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Think we'll get 5 or 6 points from our next 5 games, a win at Hull and then a couple of draws from Everton, West Ham and Man. City, think Spurs will beat us as they're very good away from home.
Would keep us in mid table but then we have a very good opportunity to motor up the league and be in the top half for xmas.....
Our run of games from November to the new year is Cardiff, Sunderland, Man. United, Swansea, Palace at home and WBA, Southampton, Fulham, Stoke and Sunderland away.
That is a very kind run for us and you can move very quickly up the league over the xmas period. That 10 game spell is what I'll properly judge us on, I think it's unfair people writing us off after what has been one of the tougher starts a prem team has had when you look at other team's fixtures.
I agree with what django says, it's been an o.k start. The defence was poor v Newcastle and got a lot of stick but the pleasing thing for me is apart from that we don't look like we'll cave in and concede a mountain of goals particularly at set pieces.
I can't help thinking our steady progress would be accelerated if we could buy a decent AM from somewhere particularly while Benteke is still at the club.
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The home form is a major concern for me.
I'm struggling to see where a win is going to come from the Man City, Spurs and Everton matches.
It's a good job our away record is so good at the moment.
I actually fancy us more against the better sides at home. It's the games where the onus is on us to open up teams where I think we will struggle.
Liverpool are a decent side this year and have a solid defence, we barely created a chance against them until the 86th minute. Now Kompany's back Man. City are looking strong there and Spurs have an excellent defence (and a keeper who's allowed to handle outside his box) so I'm struggling to see us scoring much past those two and other end remains a worry.
Our best chance of a win is Everton but again Martinez has a very good record at VP and knows how to play us here so think that will be a draw.
I think our first home win will be v Cardiff on November 9th but of course I'd be delighted to be wrong. Home form will remain our Achilles heel this season.
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One win, two draws and two defeats coming up I reckon. Probably Beat hull, draw with Everton and west ham. Might sneak two wins
It's definitely progress. We've lost one game by more than one goal since the loss to Wigan last January. We were regularly getting a good hiding in 2012. I just think its statistically undeniable that we've improved. Compare our results against the same sides last season.
The real litmus test will be November and December. Last year, we had lots of winnable games in January and lost most of them. There's scope to rack up a load of points in those games. But it's tough before it gets better and with our injuries we could find it tough in these upcoming games.
It's be a surprise if we didn't get a relatively heavy defeat in one of them I'd have thought. But then I thought the same about our first three games.
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I'm happy. Clark seems to have improved and as a result the defence looks a bit better.
The midfield is energetic with Gabby looking good/great on the wing.
The biggest thing for me is our weaknesses seems so obvious, which paradoxically, I see as a good thing. If we had players as good (not necessarily the same) as Delph and Gabby in Weimann and KEA's positions then I think we'd really be pushing for Europe. That's probably only a 20m investment which is not *that* much considering the journey we've been on.
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3 clean sheets please.
My hope and dreams
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We will have 40 points after 30 games. Anyone wants to bet against that?
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I think the performance level of the first three games was a higher than anything we saw last season (even though we lost two of those games). Newcastle was awful and then we reacted well to get a good win at the weekend.
I feel that although we will be a threat away from home, a total re-think on the way we approach home games is needed. If Benteke is injured for a while, it may mean that we will have to change our style. I'm still not sure we have sorted the problems we had last season at full-back, though part of that could be the fact that they are left exposed at times.
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I think the performance level of the first three games was a higher than anything we saw last season (even though we lost two of those games). Newcastle was awful and then we reacted well to get a good win at the weekend.
I feel that although we will be a threat away from home, a total re-think on the way we approach home games is needed. If Benteke is injured for a while, it may mean that we will have to change our style. I'm still not sure we have sorted the problems we had last season at full-back, though part of that could be the fact that they are left exposed at times.
I think that we have an opportunity to try something other than "Guzan-to-Benteke"...
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We will have 40 points after 30 games. Anyone wants to bet against that?
I agree with you.
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I think to say we haven't made progress is very unfair based on what we have seen so far. I also think it is very unfair to suggest we are very inconsistent and we are still terrible at the back. So far we have played well in 4 of the 5 games and the defence only looked shakey in that game too. It's too early to say we have turned a corner but the signs are there. If we take 7 points from our next 5 that would be a good return and should see us around 10th, ready to kick on with a decent run of fixtures up until Chrismas.
I guess this depends on your definition of 'played well'. A lot was made of the Chelsea performance and us being plucky losers, but we didn't have a shot until Benteke scored just before half time. The first 45 against Liverpool was as BAD as anything we've seen over the previous two seasons and Newcastle was turgid. There's no way Saturday's performance was anything above average either. So what are these great performances and signs of improvement ?
Well to my eyes anyway. Mind you one of our regular gang sees nothing but good things either.
Chelsea away is a tough match, so you have to make allowances for the quality of the opposition. They started the stronger, but we grew into the game and were good value for at least a point, which we didn't get due to poor referring. Compare it the game there last season and it can only be viewed as progress.
Liverpool was a poor 30-45 minutes and then pretty decent 2nd half. We can have no complaints about the result in the way we did at Chelsea, but again a more than decent side who we aquitted ourselves well against.
Newcastle was poor - no argument from me there - but then we did what we proved unable to do last season against Norwich, which is win when not being at our best.
Things are far from perfect, and will continue to be for a couple of years yet with the approach we're now taking, but what we've seen so far does warrant some optimism. Unless we start throwing money at it again, we have to go through the growing pains of a young side developing together.
Contrast us to someone like Fulham. They buy established players just past their best (Berbatov, Riise, Duff) and aim for midtable with an outside chance of Europe. They'll always be around that level, unless they balls it up, never being able to get any higher, but also with no real fear of relegation. Stoke are similar. We could do that also, and some would argue that's what we were under MON, but that glass ceiling will always be there. With Lambert we're trying another approach, which is basically one step back in order to take two forward. We were behind the Fulham's of the league last season, I think we'll be around them this year and then overtake them in years to come, as our players improve in ways they're presently better established ones can't. And even if we lose some of them, we'll make a healthy profit on them and then reinvest that.
That is, of course, presuming we don't balls it up also!!
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I think to say we haven't made progress is very unfair based on what we have seen so far. I also think it is very unfair to suggest we are very inconsistent and we are still terrible at the back. So far we have played well in 4 of the 5 games and the defence only looked shakey in that game too. It's too early to say we have turned a corner but the signs are there. If we take 7 points from our next 5 that would be a good return and should see us around 10th, ready to kick on with a decent run of fixtures up until Chrismas.
I guess this depends on your definition of 'played well'. A lot was made of the Chelsea performance and us being plucky losers, but we didn't have a shot until Benteke scored just before half time. The first 45 against Liverpool was as BAD as anything we've seen over the previous two seasons and Newcastle was turgid. There's no way Saturday's performance was anything above average either. So what are these great performances and signs of improvement ?
Well to my eyes anyway. Mind you one of our regular gang sees nothing but good things either.
Chelsea away is a tough match, so you have to make allowances for the quality of the opposition. They started the stronger, but we grew into the game and were good value for at least a point, which we didn't get due to poor referring. Compare it the game there last season and it can only be viewed as progress.
Liverpool was a poor 30-45 minutes and then pretty decent 2nd half. We can have no complaints about the result in the way we did at Chelsea, but again a more than decent side who we aquitted ourselves well against.
Newcastle was poor - no argument from me there - but then we did what we proved unable to do last season against Norwich, which is win when not being at our best.
Things are far from perfect, and will continue to be for a couple of years yet with the approach we're now taking, but what we've seen so far does warrant some optimism. Unless we start throwing money at it again, we have to go through the growing pains of a young side developing together.
Contrast us to someone like Fulham. They buy established players just past their best (Berbatov, Riise, Duff) and aim for midtable with an outside chance of Europe. They'll always be around that level, unless they balls it up, never being able to get any higher, but also with no real fear of relegation. Stoke are similar. We could do that also, and some would argue that's what we were under MON, but that glass ceiling will always be there. With Lambert we're trying another approach, which is basically one step back in order to take two forward. We were behind the Fulham's of the league last season, I think we'll be around them this year and then overtake them in years to come, as our players improve in ways they're presently better established ones can't. And even if we lose some of them, we'll make a healthy profit on them and then reinvest that.
That is, of course, presuming we don't balls it up also!!
I think that's the best summing up of it so far.
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I think the performance level of the first three games was a higher than anything we saw last season (even though we lost two of those games). Newcastle was awful and then we reacted well to get a good win at the weekend.
I feel that although we will be a threat away from home, a total re-think on the way we approach home games is needed. If Benteke is injured for a while, it may mean that we will have to change our style. I'm still not sure we have sorted the problems we had last season at full-back, though part of that could be the fact that they are left exposed at times.
I think that we have an opportunity to try something other than "Guzan-to-Benteke"...
Well put, though my fear is that we'll put in Plan B: "Guzan-to-Kozak"
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I'm strangely much more confident of playing the likes of Man City at home than the likes of Hull. The big teams at home will have a go at us, so we can implement 'away style' into action. Hull won't and we'll look very shit when we can't break them down.
May be delusional as City may score on every attack but hey ho
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I'm strangely much more confident of playing the likes of Man City at home than the likes of Hull. The big teams at home will have a go at us, so we can implement 'away style' into action. Hull won't and we'll look very shit when we can't break them down.
May be delusional as City may score on every attack but hey ho
Our home form is bad, but its not so bad that we'll be utterly unable to beat teams like Hull. Its the mid table sides we'll struggle with.
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I'm strangely much more confident of playing the likes of Man City at home than the likes of Hull. The big teams at home will have a go at us, so we can implement 'away style' into action. Hull won't and we'll look very shit when we can't break them down.
May be delusional as City may score on every attack but hey ho
Our home form is bad, but its not so bad that we'll be utterly unable to beat teams like Hull. Its the mid table sides we'll struggle with.
Since the start of feb is 3 wins, 1 draw and 5 defeats, poor but not poor enough to be worried about the visit of Hull.
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Last night was a bit of a wake up call. I just hope we get 40 points on the board asap then I will be sure we have progressed.
It's sickening watch the likes of Southampton, Swansea progress and see Spurs as title challengers.
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Last night was a bit of a wake up call. I just hope we get 40 points on the board asap then I will be sure we have progressed.
It's sickening watch the likes of Southampton, Swansea progress and see Spurs as title challengers.
All 3 of them have a strategy and are investing to achieve it. We also have one but at a considerably lower budget. Ultimately most teams are scouting the same players and usually money talks on wages etc as Newcastle found out. We are gambling on a few 'cheaper' options who may or may not come off - a high risk strategy in it's own right.
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Football is a results business. Some clubs take decades to build up a reputation too. Our rep is that of a club who are almost always in the top flight. We've got a good history of winning things. We have our off moments of course, and we disappear into the safety of anonymity a lot of times to. On occasion we'll scrap up nearer the top. On rarer occasions we're involved in scraps down the bottom, but as things stand those bottom end scraps are becoming all too common. 3 seasons in a row, and we're staring down the barrel of a fourth. We're in danger of just slipping quietly away into nothingness, a bit like Leeds. Granted not with such financially disastrous aplomb, but if we get relegated, then coming straight back isn't foregone.
I'm all for financial stability but we've taken it to an extreme. Randy really has picked the right manager, because Lambert is loath to buy anyone who comes with a reputation. It's not just a lack of money it's also a lack of will to spend a bit more on surer bets.
In an ideal world we'd strike the balance between Lamberts well scouted cheap buys, with O Neill's more extravagant hits like Young, Milner, Petrov etc.
Should we be happy merely to survive in this league? Is top half of the bottom half really an achievement for this club? I know O Neill took us to three 6th placed finishes. I know there's a sense of unfinished business and that we never quite managed to make that extra step up. Similar under Gregory too. However in the recent decades, perhaps that was our level. Certainly I'd take being a top 6 side year in year out over where we are now.
I know Lambert aspires to play good football. It doesn't always work. We've played good football under certain managers over the years, including MON and we've been a better side doing it. We played some great stuff in 07-08 and finished 6th. Scored a shite load too. But here's the thing: Under Lambert we basically struggle at home. We toil, we can't string 4 passes together. We lack a bit of guile to break teams down. We're reliant on one standout player to do something. Away from home we look better. We counter with pace and we attack quick, fast and look like scoring goals.
Is that not exactly how we played under O Neill? The difference being we had better players, and were more effective as a side. We were more resolute too. We score less, we concede (far) more. In my mind all thats really changed is that we've got a poorer quality squad and a more open manager. He says the right things, he has on paper a reasonably good idea. In theory is another matter. I just don't think Lambert has the nous to pull this off. It's a lot like what Fergie did 20 odd years ago by replacing aging stars and bringing through youth players. The difference being, we're talking Fergie armed with the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Beckham etc, whilst still signing top players to supplement his home grown.
I'm all for giving Lambert time. I like him. He's just desperately in need of a decent right hand man and he's got to acknowledge that we desperately need to do something to address a lack of experience and proven quality within our squad. I'm happy to sign players like Westy, Lowts, Sylla etc. As long as we sign players we know can hit the ground running and help bed them in.
From the outside looking in, it does appear though that we have a 3-5 year plan. That plan isn't to become a Champions League side. It's a long term plan to become a solid mid-table side. That's the very best we can expect with what we're doing at the moment. Do we really want to wait that long to be a club that doesn't fight relegation every year?
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Excellent post by Clampy (reply number 32) and a very reasoned, insightful one too. This is what I keep trying to persuade myself will happen and it's good to be reminded of it by you after such a depressing evening last night when my first reaction is to over-react...or maybe not. We shall see. Thank you for grounding things and giving some perspective
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Excellent post by Clampy (reply number 32) and a very reasoned, insightful one too. This is what I keep trying to persuade myself will happen and it's good to be reminded of it by you after such a depressing evening last night when my first reaction is to over-react...or maybe not. We shall see. Thank you for grounding things and giving some perspective
It wasn't me, it was Concrete John but yes it was excellent.
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I think we’re progressing.
There seemed to be general consensus that we need to avoid being in a relegation fight again come April and that we should be aiming for as close to 50 points as possible, which would likely put us somewhere from 12-8th.
You can frame that against the clubs achievements over the past 100 years and say its not acceptable, but then having read the post-match Spurs thread, I think there is a real disconnect from the reality of the base we’re working from.
Statistically we’re better off this season. Be that on a match by match comparison or a points per game comparison. We’ve comfortably had the hardest start out of any other club in the league; its laughable to watch the manager of the Champions complain about the programme when we have had the fixtures fall so unkindly, a side that finished 6th from bottom.
Last season from the same set of fixtures we took three points away at Norwich and lost the rest. In the process we conceded 15 goals, 8 of which came in one nightmare defeat.
There is no argument to say the defence hasn’t tightened up, as we have not lost a game by more than one goal and have thus far shipped 6 and scored an equal amount, one more than last season. We have faced improved sides too; Norwich, Newcastle and Liverpool all carry more potency.
Its important to remember that we’re coming from a base equivalent to footballs ground zero. We have truly entered this new era on the bottom rung. The arguments as to why have been done to death and the why isn’t really relevant anymore if you accept the fact that the Villa of May 2012 were at our lowest ebb for who knows how many seasons.
There were some really poor performances last season and we struggled at home, before starting to really click in February; but despite that, without last minute giveaways to Swansea and Everton we would have seen us only four points off the self-titled Pride of the Midlands in 8th, such are the small margins.
I think Lambert has brought in a number of decent players, unfortunately, possibly the best one is now out for the season. The squad is bigger, but there aren’t necessarily any players who can come in and make an impact on the first XI right now; Bacuna at full back possibly being the only one at this point given Lowton’s very poor start.
The likes of Clark are another year older and hopefully wiser; he certainly was against Norwich.
I anticipate that Lambert believes there is enough firepower up front and enough increased knowhow in the squad, to close out a few more games, grind out a few one nils in order to reign that 50 point mark in.
It would certainly help if we had a better way of getting hold of the game at home, which is in the antithesis to just how lethal we are away from Villa Park.
Lambert wanted an attacking midfielder in the summer but didn’t bag his man. I don’t expect us to spend much, if any money at all, in January. I think he sees Spurs as a case in point. Although starting from a top six base, they have brought in six quality players who can play in the first XI on the basis of one player sale. I anticipate that Benteke will be sold for a significant fee in the summer and good luck to him; he’s truly world class and will win European Cups.
It is then that Lambert really needs to inject three or four good quality players, with a few more years of footballing development in them, right through the spine of the side. The sort of players who can take a side from 12-8th back towards the top 6. Proper quality to supplement the likes of Delph, Gabby and Okore rather than reach the potential of those players in a season or two.
It’s a long term plan for a time where everything needs to be yesterday, but Lambert and Lerner are asking supporters to invest in it and I am willing to see it mature.
All this “give it till Christmas” is, in my opinion, hogwash. There is not short term fix for the long term problems of Aston Villa.
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Think we are either treading water or going slightly backwards. Tactically lambert appears to have learnt nothing and has stubbornly reverted to a ridiculous narrow formation.
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I'd honestly like to know what the long term goal of our long term plan is though. It appears to be mid-table safety, and we still appear a year or two away from doing that. If there's one thing you can't entirely sacrifice for a long term plan, its results. I'd love for us to have developed a really good squad of players who'll all peak together in their late 20's and have us pushing in the top 6. Firstly that's unlikely unless we make some changes. Secondly we also have to get results whilst doing this. There's the here and now to worry about, not just 5 years time. And honestly, do we want to see this through for 5 years only to be a club finishing 8th-11th every year?
If we do nothing in january, I'd worry about relegation. Sunderland have lost Di Canio, so there's a chance they might get a solid replacement. Newcastle don't look as horrendous as expected, and have a few really decent players too. I think we're in that group with Norwich, Soton, Stoke etc who'll be trying to keep ahead of the promoted clubs and try and keep them under the level. Thats not good enough for Villa.
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First of all surrender like last night is not acceptable. It's clear that there needs to be investment in the squad to add quality, because we can't go into games essentially forfeiting them. The problem is our home form is becoming chronic, because we don't have the quality in midfield to unlock teams.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
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I agree there isn't a quick fix, but we need to see a change in strategy when it comes to transfers moving forward. We have brought in a lot of players to bolster the squad, but now we need to start adding a couple of players each window to increase the quality. Also at home we have to change our tactics, because clearly they're not working.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
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Reasons to be happy:
1. World class striker (Yes I know he's injured - but not many better in my opinion)
2. World class goalkeeper
3. Delph, looks immense at the moment.
4. Gabby - loyal and effective
5. Andi - looked a little poor so far, but he will come good
6. Okore, when fit I think he will be as good as any in league
Anyway, you can only play 11 players at once and we have some bloody good players. We will improve. Need a bit of luck, injuries to subside and game time.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
Money. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. That's why we're in such a mess.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
Money. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. That's why we're in such a mess.
I don't know why you're unable to understand that we are not going to be spending money to compete with Manchester City. Or even Spurs. As that isn't an option, we are trying to patiently piece together a competitive side by scouting and buying cheaper and less glamourous, but nonetheless good players from more obscure leagues and clubs. If this works, it will come to fruition in a few seasons' time. Whether we agree with this approach would seem to depend on our ability to a) delay gratification and b) see some sort of progress. I can do both - especially in light of the last few disasterous seasons, before Lambert came. If you can't, I'm afraid you're going to be frustrated for a while yet.
And really: "Monkeys"? You don't rate Benteke or Weimann or Okore or Guzan, then?
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I agree that we have to have some patience for the "project" as they now get called that we are embarking on. I do know that we also need to get results to keep us going forward as its clearly not good for any us to be consistently under relegation pressure. My concern having sat through last nights game is the same as it has been for all of this season , midfield. We have some good workers in there who can "do a job" but when we have the ball we just are completely clueless in what to do with it passing sideways and backwards. This lack of movement and creativity means that we end up as stated by AVB this morning and by the current Messia Jose after the Chelsea game we lump it long and play very direct , I believe because we quickly run out of any other idea of what to do with the ball.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
Money. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. That's why we're in such a mess.
I wouldn't call £7m for one player on deadline day peanuts and I wouldn't say we're in a mess either but each to their own I suppose.
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Ok, let's just spend loads of money, £10m, £15m a player. I mean, we've clearly got it lying around doing nothing, so why aren't they spending? Great idea. Villa should spend their excess hundreds of millions on a world class squad. Someone get down to Cleveland, OH and tell Lerner that, because he's scratching his head and wondering if all the wads of money would make a good fort.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
Last night you said Lerner doesn't spend enough. You were asked how many managers had spent more than Lambert and didn't answer. This morning you're saying Lerner doesn't spend enough.
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There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it.
He (Lerner) doesn't have it, so no point in hankering after it.
Every team is always two players short. Two quality players. Fans always want two more signings. Managers always want to make two more signings. There's always two missing pieces to the jigsaw. You have to draw the line somewhere and balance the books.
Rhetorical question time - would you pay an extra £100 pa on your season ticket to fund the 'real money' signings? Seriously?
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
Money. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. That's why we're in such a mess.
I don't know why you're unable to understand that we are not going to be spending money to compete with Manchester City. Or even Spurs. As that isn't an option, we are trying to patiently piece together a competitive side by scouting and buying cheaper and less glamourous, but nonetheless good players from more obscure leagues and clubs. If this works, it will come to fruition in a few seasons' time. Whether we agree with this approach would seem to depend on our ability to a) delay gratification and b) see some sort of progress. I can do both - especially in light of the last few disasterous seasons, before Lambert came. If you can't, I'm afraid you're going to be frustrated for a while yet.
And really: "Monkeys"? You don't rate Benteke or Weimann or Okore or Guzan, then?
I'm not deluded enough to think we can compete with the Man Citys of this world, I just want to see us competitive but we're not even doing that. Are you happy with the Villa at the moment?
As for the players you've listed only Benteke can be classed as a good signing. Okore may well turn out to be decent in the long run. Weimann can class himself very lucky to be still in the team. He's done barely nothing this calendar year. In another era at. Villa he'd find himself back in the reserves.
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
Last night you said Lerner doesn't spend enough. You were asked how many managers had spent more than Lambert and didn't answer. This morning you're saying Lerner doesn't spend enough.
And the one thing you'll never do is question Randy Lerner. You seem his biggest fan for some reason.
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
How about speculating to accumulate. Surely a rich man like Lerner has done that in the past?
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
How about speculating to accumulate. Surely a rich man like Lerner has done that in the past?
I think you have an unrealistic view on how much we can spend on speculation. Football is a business, but it's a pretty wild one. Buying players to hopefully sell at a profit isn't like investing in steel - the risks involved are greater than any stock market commodity.
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A few clubs in and around our sort of level, in the bottom 12 spent around about the same, and more as us. I'm thinking Norwich, Cardiff, West Ham, Southampton, Sunderland (though obviously that was spent by a barking mad bastard). Everton didn't spend a huge amount but got 3 very good signings on deadline day.
For me 20 million spent on 7 players (going by the mail) is a bit of a gamble. Had we spent another 10 million on a really standout midfielder we'd be in much better shape. A solid loan or two might have helped us too. I think Barry will prove excellent business for Everton this season.
We're in this situation right now where we can add 2-3 decent players to our squad and then we're not far off Liverpools standard. Lose 2-3 of our better players to transfer or injury, and we're about on a par with the promoted sides. That's a problem at the moment.
I'm all for progress but it's got to happen a bit quicker. If you flirt too often with relegation you'll end up waking up the next morning next to it and its not a pretty sight.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
What 'quick fix' do you have in mind?
Money. Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. That's why we're in such a mess.
What evidence do you have that no one else does that Lerner isn't willing to spend money? Is there a big list of expensive talent that Lambert wanted but wasn't given the funds for?
Do we just keep spending big money until we win the league? If so where does that money come from? Is spending vastly beyond your means a viable business strategy for anyone?
There has to be a better way than just throwing money at it every time things are less than perfect because we can't compete with the likes of the manc clubs, 1 being a global brand and the other bankrolled by the mega-rich who want a plaything to give their ego a boost. We will never be successful if we try to go toe-to-toe with those clubs financially, all that would happen is Villa would become a note in history which serves as a warning to clubs about overspending, much like Leeds. Building a squad like we're doing is our 'shot' at finding another way, it's not easy (if it was everyone would do it) but it is sustainable and if we get it right we'll be in a good place.
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8 first team players out with injury. What is the fucking panic ?
We will be fine come the end of the season. Lambert cannot just wave a magic bloody wand.
Didn't think it would take long for the doom merchants to raise their heads, again.
League is far more important than any cup.
Home form is an issue and one that needs serious work, don't start panicking just cause we got tonked in a cup game, with more than half of the first team out with injury.
Get real.
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
How about speculating to accumulate. Surely a rich man like Lerner has done that in the past?
I think you have an unrealistic view on how much we can spend on speculation. Football is a business, but it's a pretty wild one. Buying players to hopefully sell at a profit isn't like investing in steel - the risks involved are greater than any stock market commodity.
Unrealistic to want a team a Villa that can compete in the Premier League and not bow down to the likes of Tottenham when they come to town?
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Tom, I agree it's a gamble and I still think a fair chunk of that money was misspent, but we're actually a year or so behind Southampton, Swansea and certainly Everton in squad terms. Even Norwich have basically Lambert's squad in place - we've spent years trying to shift our expensive waste, and still haven't totally done so.
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Tom, I agree it's a gamble and I still think a fair chunk of that money was misspent, but we're actually a year or so behind Southampton, Swansea and certainly Everton in squad terms. Even Norwich have basically Lambert's squad in place - we've spent years trying to shift our expensive waste, and still haven't totally done so.
It's the selling of our better players and replacing them with inferior ones that has got us into the mess we're in now.
I think the main reason we're in a mess is because we simply won't pay decent wages anymore. That's why we seem to be perennial relegation battlers these days.
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
How about speculating to accumulate. Surely a rich man like Lerner has done that in the past?
I think you have an unrealistic view on how much we can spend on speculation. Football is a business, but it's a pretty wild one. Buying players to hopefully sell at a profit isn't like investing in steel - the risks involved are greater than any stock market commodity.
Unrealistic to want a team a Villa that can compete in the Premier League and not bow down to the likes of Tottenham when they come to town?
Unrealistic in thinking that we can currently spend as much as them. You think that the answer to everything is to spend more? Well, there's no way we can spend as much as Spurs right now, let alone as much as the teams who finished top four last season. So, we have to find another way to build ourselves up in the meantime. How much do you think Spurs are paying Lewis Holtby, who came into the side yesterday and scooped that ball to Defoe for their first in a way no Villa player could? He's their second string. We're miles behind them financially, so we need to find another way.
Any ideas? Ideas which don't just imagine that Lerner has more money than he does.
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Tom, I agree it's a gamble and I still think a fair chunk of that money was misspent, but we're actually a year or so behind Southampton, Swansea and certainly Everton in squad terms. Even Norwich have basically Lambert's squad in place - we've spent years trying to shift our expensive waste, and still haven't totally done so.
It's the selling of our better players and replacing them with inferior ones that has got us into the mess we're in now.
I think the main reason we're in a mess is because we simply won't pay decent wages anymore. That's why we seem to be perennial relegation battlers these days.
See above.
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8 first team players out with injury. What is the fucking panic ?
We will be fine come the end of the season. Lambert cannot just wave a magic bloody wand.
Didn't think it would take long for the doom merchants to raise their heads, again.
League is far more important than any cup.
Home form is an issue and one that needs serious work, don't start panicking just cause we got tonked in a cup game, with more than half of the first team out with injury.
Get real.
The situation right now isn't what's concerning me so much. I didn't expect much but a solid beating at Spurs given our injuries. My worry is, what everyone keeps referring to as "the plan." For it prove effective Lambert has to change some of the things he's doing. My worry is whether or not he will. He's had 15 months to sort certain problems out and it never seems like we do. Defence is horrific. Lack of invention in midfield is chronic, and that's where most of our home problems come from.
If I can see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel I don't mind wading through some shit. It's had to see that when you lose 3 home games on the spin pretty comfortably and it seems like many of the problems from the last 3 seasons (or narrowly avoiding relegation) aren't being addressed.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
Last night you said Lerner doesn't spend enough. You were asked how many managers had spent more than Lambert and didn't answer. This morning you're saying Lerner doesn't spend enough.
And the one thing you'll never do is question Randy Lerner. You seem his biggest fan for some reason.
He pays me. Didn't you know?
If you could be bothered to read everything rather than selectively, you'll see that I criticise when due and ignore most of the time. However, when something is apparently wrong then I'll disagree with it, and your claim that he hasn't given enough money is blatantly at odds with the facts.
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Around this time last year we won away to Man City's reserves. Last night we lost at home to Spurs' reserves. If one isn't a reason to get carried away, then the other isn't reason to be too despondent, especailly as league results are better so far this season.
It's a bump in the road.
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So you know we can't compete, but you want us to be competitive? Who with? What does that mean?
How about speculating to accumulate. Surely a rich man like Lerner has done that in the past?
I think you have an unrealistic view on how much we can spend on speculation. Football is a business, but it's a pretty wild one. Buying players to hopefully sell at a profit isn't like investing in steel - the risks involved are greater than any stock market commodity.
Unrealistic to want a team a Villa that can compete in the Premier League and not bow down to the likes of Tottenham when they come to town?
Unrealistic in thinking that we can currently spend as much as them. You think that the answer to everything is to spend more? Well, there's no way we can spend as much as Spurs right now, let alone as much as the teams who finished top four last season. So, we have to find another way to build ourselves up in the meantime. How much do you think Spurs are paying Lewis Holtby, who came into the side yesterday and scooped that ball to Defoe for their first in a way no Villa player could? He's their second string. We're miles behind them financially, so we need to find another way.
Any ideas? Ideas which don't just imagine that Lerner has more money than he does.
Again, who said we should be spending as much a Spurs do? I want us to be competitive in the PL. That doesn't mean I'm demanding CL football over night, but it damn well means we should be the perennial relegation battlers that we have become. I think Lerner has lost any kind of ambition at Villa and is now running us on a relative shoe string. Are you happy with Villa under Lerner?
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I'm not deluded enough to think we can compete with the Man Citys of this world, I just want to see us competitive but we're not even doing that. Are you happy with the Villa at the moment?
As for the players you've listed only Benteke can be classed as a good signing. Okore may well turn out to be decent in the long run. Weimann can class himself very lucky to be still in the team. He's done barely nothing this calendar year. In another era at. Villa he'd find himself back in the reserves.
I'm happier with the Villa's situation than I was last Christmas and that's progress - allbeit slight progress - as far as I'm concerned.
When that shit O'neill walked out, I'd have been happier to have seen our next appointment be an improvement on him. In fact, given where we were, I'd have expected it. The next two managers were obviously nowhere near, and it's that (or rather those) terrible managerial descisions we're trying to rectify, not a lack of funding by Lerner.
I believe (and fervently hope) that the "provide a bottomless moneypit" stategy of some of the PL's richlist proves unsustainable. So I'm actually pleased Villa's not as crass and vulgar as Citeh and Chelsea, even if that means a few years of plodding.
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I think we just need to chill a little. 8)
Looking at the squad realistically, its midtable. Thats what has been budgeted for. Thats in line with what we all pay as individuals at the gate and for our season tickets.
Two quality additions and it could (with a tail wind and a spot of good luck) be top 7/6.
I don't think Lambert is blinkered or reluctant to pay for the quality, or even so much that Lerner won't fund it. Its just that there's only a finite pool of quality, all being chased by a group of clubs across Europe, of which we are but one.
I like they way we're developing. I'm prepared to build slowly. Consolidation this season (14th - 10th place). Kick on again next season (10th - 7th). Then see where we can go and what the appetite for risk is at that point.
No easy quick fixes available any longer I'm afraid.
There could be a quick fix, if only Lerner would invest some real money, but he won't do it. We spend a relative pittance these days and we're seeing the consequence of it. It's quite humiliating seeing us getting beat at home so often. There doesn't seem much pride at the Villa these days.
Last night you said Lerner doesn't spend enough. You were asked how many managers had spent more than Lambert and didn't answer. This morning you're saying Lerner doesn't spend enough.
And the one thing you'll never do is question Randy Lerner. You seem his biggest fan for some reason.
He pays me. Didn't you know?
If you could be bothered to read everything rather than selectively, you'll see that I criticise when due and ignore most of the time. However, when something is apparently wrong then I'll disagree with it, and your claim that he hasn't given enough money is blatantly at odds with the facts.
Your criticisms of Lerner must be very well hidden because I don't see many of them. One things for sure though if anyone dares criticises him on here you're the first to jump to his defence.
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Around this time last year we won away to Man City's reserves. Last night we lost at home to Spurs' reserves. If one isn't a reason to get carried away, then the other isn't reason to be too despondent, especailly as league results are better so far this season.
It's a bump in the road.
The problem though John, is that we've all seen what can happen to us after one thorough tonking. The last thing we need is a repeat of last December. We now have the delight of hosting Man City and I'm not expecting us to fare much better than last night. I honestly don't see who'll score the goals for us at the moment. I'll stop now before I make mention of Darren Bent...
I'm hoping for an instant reaction, and honestly, if we're gonna get buggered royally it may as well be in the league cup, but get pancaked by City and Hull will really be fancying themselves against us. And then...fucking Spurs again. :(
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Your criticisms of Lerner must be very well hidden because I don't see many of them. One things for sure though if anyone dares criticises him on here you're the first to jump to his defence.
Which again isn't true, but if it makes you happy keep saying it.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
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Your criticisms of Lerner must be very well hidden because I don't see many of them. One things for sure though if anyone dares criticises him on here you're the first to jump to his defence.
Which again isn't true, but if it makes you happy keep saying it.
I look forward to your next criticism of Lerner then.
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We never seem to get the balance right these days sadly. If we could strike a balance between buying the quality young prospects Lambert does, with the sort of big money successes O Neill had, like Miln, Young etc. Then we could be building a quality side. The trouble is O Neill also spunked ridiculous amounts on mediocrity, whilst in the present day Lamberts still fighting the restraints that's led to but also seems to have a problem with buying players with any sort of reputation.
The sad fact of the matter is, if you spend 1 million on a player, you'll be extremely lucky if that player is Premiership quality. If you spend 10 million, you'd be quite unfortunate if he isn't.
As someone mentioned earlier though, maybe now Lamberts signed pretty much a new squad in 3 windows, now we can go into the next couple of windows trying to supplement with 3-4 higher quality additions. 1-2 who have been there and done the business wouldn't go amiss. There is still a place in football for players over 28.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
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Never had a problem with what we spent but would have liked a couple of experienced players in the squad instead of all cheap unknowns .
Still think Barry would have been great like Arsenal did with Flamini etc . Even the Top 4 get experience . We do need a general type at times .
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Your criticisms of Lerner must be very well hidden because I don't see many of them. One things for sure though if anyone dares criticises him on here you're the first to jump to his defence.
Which again isn't true, but if it makes you happy keep saying it.
I look forward to your next criticism of Lerner then.
I look forward to your next praise of anything.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
You remind me of Republicans going on about how Obama is the worstest most really really bad President ever times infinity. Without burdening yourself with unnecessary perspective, you've just decided that what's happening is the worst thing that could possibly be happening, that the chairman is the worst, that the manager - who knows more about football than you know about anything - is the worst, that it's all a disgrace, an outrage and all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense. Seriously - are you okay? You sound like something's made you sad. And if you say that something is Villa then it's not new signings you need, it's a psychologist.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
Do you think there are any clubs in the Premier League that are worse run or have a worse manager than the Villa?
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Chelsea away, Arsenal away, Norwich away, Liverpool and Newcastle. We are 1 point from Man Utd and four off Man City - heck two wins away from being joint top (maybe a bit much!)
I think we should reflect and realise that is not too bad a start.
We've got rid of a lot of deadwood and need to also give the new guys 15 odd games to really find their feet.
Lambert has a squad, but half of it is inexperienced. Need to get off their backs.
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Your criticisms of Lerner must be very well hidden because I don't see many of them. One things for sure though if anyone dares criticises him on here you're the first to jump to his defence.
Which again isn't true, but if it makes you happy keep saying it.
I look forward to your next criticism of Lerner then.
I look forward to your next praise of anything.
Me too.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
You remind me of Republicans going on about how Obama is the worstest most really really bad President ever times infinity. Without burdening yourself with unnecessary perspective, you've just decided that what's happening is the worst thing that could possibly be happening, that the chairman is the worst, that the manager - who knows more about football than you know about anything - is the worst, that it's all a disgrace, an outrage and all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense. Seriously - are you okay? You sound like something's made you sad. And if you say that something is Villa then it's not new signings you need, it's a psychologist.
No need to be personal.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
You remind me of Republicans going on about how Obama is the worstest most really really bad President ever times infinity. Without burdening yourself with unnecessary perspective, you've just decided that what's happening is the worst thing that could possibly be happening, that the chairman is the worst, that the manager - who knows more about football than you know about anything - is the worst, that it's all a disgrace, an outrage and all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense. Seriously - are you okay? You sound like something's made you sad. And if you say that something is Villa then it's not new signings you need, it's a psychologist.
No need to be personal.
No need to be ironic.
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I'm not happy with Villa under Lerner, no, but that's mostly because of decisions. He didn't really know anything about football when he arrived - still could know more - and gave the bulk of his money to the wrong man. Yes, most of us supported that man as well, but as chairman his job is to know better than fans and frankly he knew worse than many, especially towards the end. The two managers who followed? One was a noble-ish error, one might be the worst single decision the club has made in decades. In appointing Lambert he's gone some way to getting it right.
But why are you focusing so much on Lerner? Did Lerner tell Lambert to buy Kozak? Does Lerner come down to the training pitch and disrupt ball-retention exercises? Perhaps you could relax your apparently monomaniacal obsession with Lerner, and think about Lambert, think about what football is now in the Premier League, and maybe cut them some slack? Not everything is a 'disgrace' or a 'scandal' or an 'outrage' you know.
Christ don't start me on Lambert or I'll be at it all day. The pair of them are like Stan and Ollie, and they're in charge of our club
You remind me of Republicans going on about how Obama is the worstest most really really bad President ever times infinity. Without burdening yourself with unnecessary perspective, you've just decided that what's happening is the worst thing that could possibly be happening, that the chairman is the worst, that the manager - who knows more about football than you know about anything - is the worst, that it's all a disgrace, an outrage and all sorts of hyperbolic nonsense. Seriously - are you okay? You sound like something's made you sad. And if you say that something is Villa then it's not new signings you need, it's a psychologist.
No need to be personal.
No need to be ironic.
Stirring again, Dave.
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Stirring again, Dave.
Wind your neck in. You've been lashing out at all and sundry since the match finished last night but anybody has a go back at you and you act like an outraged virgin.
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I wrote something about 'unforced club errors' in the post-match thread. On reflection, it would have been more appropriate to post it here.
I really feel we are responsible where we find ourselves right now. Modern football is crap but we had so much going for us. We had lots of money and things several other clubs didn't have: a world class stadium, a huge fanbase and an illustrious history. The 'modern' era should have been an opportunity for a club like us but we seem to be regressing. Major trophies in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s but nothing now since 1996 and not much prospect of anything for the foreseeable.
I feel that bad decisions at villa, particularly since 2010 have created this vortex where getting to 40 points asap, and making a profit on bargain signings which can then be reinvested, is the height of our ambition. We have been spectacularly badly run. There's such a thing as taking a step back to go forward by a few but I'm to be convinced that is what we are doing. We were beating the likes of Ajax in Europe five years ago. Now we are envious of the likes of Swansea's play and club strategy!
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I agree with a lot of what's been said, mainly by Monty, but as regards our budget I'm genuinely in the dark as to what Lerner's attitude is. Is it:
a) he wants to spend more but simply doesn't have any more over and above that which we are already spending;
b) he does have more money in reserve but for whatever reason doesn't want to spend any more on the Villa than he has to;
c) he doesn't have any more money and wouldn't spend it on the Villa even if he did.
Unless he's had some catastrophic financial misfortune that I've not yet read about I find it hard to believe that a and c are true. Which leaves b. After O'Neill's profligacy I can understand he's now much more cautious with his money and I would be too. But I can't help wondering whether this caution is more motivated by what's best for Lerner as opposed to what's best for the Villa. I mean, since O'Neill left we've basically been getting two-thirds of the points we got under him and flirted with relegation at least twice.
I think we all recognise what a difference a £10M midfielder would make to our first team. Okay, maybe Lambert couldn't find one and, rather than not spend the money, bought Kozak in perhaps with one eye on Benteke not being here much longer. I'd like to think that in January, unless someone really steps up, we'll try our very best to get one one in then but we were in a similar position last January and, if I recall correctly, didn't address our defensive weakness. It's that sort of thing which makes me wonder whether Lerner is really doing everything he can to give us the best possible chance to succeed.
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Stirring again, Dave.
Wind your neck in. You've been lashing out at all and sundry since the match finished last night but anybody has a go back at you and you act like an outraged virgin.
Lashing out? There's just posts on a forum. Nothing aggressive, nothing nasty. No need to get so narky about it.
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I made wrote something about 'unforced club errors' in the post-match thread. On reflection, it would have been more appropriate to post it here.
I really feel we are responsible where we find ourselves right now. Modern football is crap but we had so much going for us. We had lots of money and things several other clubs didn't have: a world class stadium, a huge fanbase and an illustrious history. The 'modern' era should have been an opportunity for a club like us but we seem to be regressing. Major trophies in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s but nothing now since 1996 and not much prospect of anything for the foreseeable.
I feel that bad decisions at villa, particularly since 2010 have created this vortex where getting to 40 points asap, and making a profit on bargain signings which can then be reinvested, is the height of our ambition. We have been spectacularly badly run.
That's opinion not fact and nullifies most of the rest of it. Everyone knows that things have gone wrong in the last few years but that doesn't mean the club are happy to coast along. If we were I'd suggest we'd be employing a safer strategy in terms of recruitment, buying lots of decent pros with premier league experience, rather than going out of our way to get rid of those players and replace them with youngsters with something to prove.
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Hilts, I think that it's more Lerner's got his eye on Financial Fair Play (which, admittedly, isn't going to be much of a problem - our prospects for Europe aren't spectacular). I think he also got his fingers burnt with MON, and doesn't want to end up paying loads of money for unwanted players. Which further suggests that he doesn't totally trust the manager, but who the hell knows.
They want the club to be 'sustainable' and 'self-sufficient'. That will be a good thing in years to come, but it's a bumpy road.
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I agree with a lot of what's been said, mainly by Monty, but as regards our budget I'm genuinely in the dark as to what Lerner's attitude is. Is it:
a) he wants to spend more but simply doesn't have any more over and above that which we are already spending;
b) he does have more money in reserve but for whatever reason doesn't want to spend any more on the Villa than he has to;
c) he doesn't have any more money and wouldn't spend it on the Villa even if he did.
Unless he's had some catastrophic financial misfortune that I've not yet read about I find it hard to believe that a and c are true. Which leaves b. After O'Neill's profligacy I can understand he's now much more cautious with his money and I would be too. But I can't help wondering whether this caution is more motivated by what's best for Lerner as opposed to what's best for the Villa. I mean, since O'Neill left we've basically been getting two-thirds of the points we got under him and flirted with relegation at least twice.
I think we all recognise what a difference a £10M midfielder would make to our first team. Okay, maybe Lambert couldn't find one and, rather than not spend the money, bought Kozak in perhaps with one eye on Benteke not being here much longer. I'd like to think that in January, unless someone really steps up, we'll try our very best to get one one in then but we were in a similar position last January and, if I recall correctly, didn't address our defensive weakness. It's that sort of thing which makes me wonder whether Lerner is really doing everything he can to give us the best possible chance to succeed.
Let's say that he does spend heavily - along the lines of an inflation-adjusted Darren Bent so maybe £25 million. The player will be looking for another £15 million or so in wages so you've just added £40 million of debt onto the club. That's coming out of the owner's pocket, which leaves the obvious question - how far can you go getting deeper into debt and relying on the goodwill of your club's owner to continually finance progress? It's no good blithely saying "speculate to accumulate". There isn't a single successful club that wouldn't have been in administration long ago if they were anything other than a bank or a football club.
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Stirring again, Dave.
Wind your neck in. You've been lashing out at all and sundry since the match finished last night but anybody has a go back at you and you act like an outraged virgin.
Lashing out? There's just posts on a forum. Nothing aggressive, nothing nasty. No need to get so narky about it.
I refer the hon. gentleman to my earlier post.
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Around this time last year we won away to Man City's reserves. Last night we lost at home to Spurs' reserves. If one isn't a reason to get carried away, then the other isn't reason to be too despondent, especailly as league results are better so far this season.
It's a bump in the road.
The problem though John, is that we've all seen what can happen to us after one thorough tonking. The last thing we need is a repeat of last December. We now have the delight of hosting Man City and I'm not expecting us to fare much better than last night. I honestly don't see who'll score the goals for us at the moment. I'll stop now before I make mention of Darren Bent...
I'm hoping for an instant reaction, and honestly, if we're gonna get buggered royally it may as well be in the league cup, but get pancaked by City and Hull will really be fancying themselves against us. And then...fucking Spurs again. :(
I actually agree with that. The destruction of the team's confidence started by Chelsea last season took a long time to get back and without that patch we'd have been pretty comfortable through most of the season. So it's a test to see how, if at all, last night effects things. Doesn't mean we have to win the game, but a narrow defeat will say to me their heads haven't dropped.
It's just very early days and the majority of what people are predicting and/or expecting, be it good or bad, is based on very little actual evidence. So I'm just in more of a "Let's wait and see" frame of mind.
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You're also missing:
d) Lerner is giving Lambert the money he asks for.
I've said it repeatedly over the last year, where is there any evidence that Lerner won't allow Lambert to spend more on players? There is the wage bill consideration, and I'm convinced that a target is set for that, but I just don't see that with transfer fees, it seems to be that Lambert won't spend above his valuation of a player more than him operating to a tight budget.
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You're also missing:
d) Lerner is giving Lambert the money he asks for.
I've said it repeatedly over the last year, where is there any evidence that Lerner won't allow Lambert to spend more on players? There is the wage bill consideration, and I'm convinced that a target is set for that, but I just don't see that with transfer fees, it seems to be that Lambert won't spend above his valuation of a player more than him operating to a tight budget.
This was seen last August. He didn't get that left-back from Ipswich so within hours he'd bought Bennett. Couldn't agree a fee for the Charlton midfielder so he signed Westwood. Genk stated pissing about; within minutes he'd agreed a fee for Dempsey. This year Kozak suddenly arrives. Maybe it's shrewd business practice, maybe its a blind spot but Paul Lambert does seem to have a fixed value for every target and won't be budged.
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You're also missing:
d) Lerner is giving Lambert the money he asks for.
I've said it repeatedly over the last year, where is there any evidence that Lerner won't allow Lambert to spend more on players? There is the wage bill consideration, and I'm convinced that a target is set for that, but I just don't see that with transfer fees, it seems to be that Lambert won't spend above his valuation of a player more than him operating to a tight budget.
Yep, it's a possibility but that would make Lambert one of the few managers in world football who imposes financial limits on himself, rather than have them imposed by the owner. And I'd be more persuaded that it is true of Lambert if our requirement for a top class midfielder wasn't so blatant.
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Let's say that he does spend heavily - along the lines of an inflation-adjusted Darren Bent so maybe £25 million. The player will be looking for another £15 million or so in wages so you've just added £40 million of debt onto the club. That's coming out of the owner's pocket, which leaves the obvious question - how far can you go getting deeper into debt and relying on the goodwill of your club's owner to continually finance progress? It's no good blithely saying "speculate to accumulate". There isn't a single successful club that wouldn't have been in administration long ago if they were anything other than a bank or a football club.
No doubt that's true regarding £25M valued players, which is no doubt why we're not spending that kind of money on individuals (not that we ever have). But is it equally true of £15M players, £10M players or even £7-8M players?
As regards how far do you go, only Lerner (and possibly Faulkner and Lambert) know the answer to that. I suppose my questions really are how much is Lerner actually worth, what proportion of that is he prepared to spend on the Villa, and could it be higher?
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You're also missing:
d) Lerner is giving Lambert the money he asks for.
I've said it repeatedly over the last year, where is there any evidence that Lerner won't allow Lambert to spend more on players? There is the wage bill consideration, and I'm convinced that a target is set for that, but I just don't see that with transfer fees, it seems to be that Lambert won't spend above his valuation of a player more than him operating to a tight budget.
Yep, it's a possibility but that would make Lambert one of the few managers in world football who imposes financial limits on himself, rather than have them imposed by the owner. And I'd be more persuaded that it is true of Lambert if our requirement for a top class midfielder wasn't so blatant.
but we've been linked with a lot of suitable midfielders over the summer, and all would have come with a big price tag, the club have even confirmed that we asked about some of them. Kiyotake for example, I guess Lambert had a fee in mind (let's guess at £6m) and FCN quoted £10m so we walked away and Lerner was never asked for the money. That's almost certainly what happened (the figures are made up though) which is why I think it's pretty unfair to moan about Lerner not making the funds available, the evidence we have is that the money is there but only if Lambert thinks the player is value for it.
I strongly suspect that he had 3-4 midfielders in mind but none of them were available at a price he was happy with and he then didn't have the 'dossiers' for any others so he's left it until Jan when hopefully he'll have a couple more options or one of his original choices will be available. It all fits with what we know about the way Lambert operates in the market.
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I don't think Lambert would refuse money from Lerner, but would refuse to spend it on the wrong player. And by that I mean spending £10m on a £5m player.
Ultimately, that may turn out to be his achilles heel when you view how the market seems to work these days.
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but we've been linked with a lot of suitable midfielders over the summer, and all would have come with a big price tag, the club have even confirmed that we asked about some of them. Kiyotake for example, I guess Lambert had a fee in mind (let's guess at £6m) and FCN quoted £10m so we walked away and Lerner was never asked for the money. That's almost certainly what happened (the figures are made up though) which is why I think it's pretty unfair to moan about Lerner not making the funds available, the evidence we have is that the money is there but only if Lambert thinks the player is value for it.
I strongly suspect that he had 3-4 midfielders in mind but none of them were available at a price he was happy with and he then didn't have the 'dossiers' for any others so he's left it until Jan when hopefully he'll have a couple more options or one of his original choices will be available. It all fits with what we know about the way Lambert operates in the market.
I don't know. January is when prices are at their most inflated so if we're anxious to get the best value for money then the summer would have been the time to buy.
Maybe you're right, maybe we did only want to pay (for sake of argument) £6M for a £10M valued player but, in the long run, what effect does not paying the asking price have on the team? Surely it's better to have paid over the odds if the need is great. Yes we might have an extra £4M (or whatever the figure is) in the bank but that leads me back to my point about Lerner's protection of his money trumping the requirements of the team.
It makes even less sense when we spent reasonably big on another big striker.
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Let's say that he does spend heavily - along the lines of an inflation-adjusted Darren Bent so maybe £25 million. The player will be looking for another £15 million or so in wages so you've just added £40 million of debt onto the club. That's coming out of the owner's pocket, which leaves the obvious question - how far can you go getting deeper into debt and relying on the goodwill of your club's owner to continually finance progress? It's no good blithely saying "speculate to accumulate". There isn't a single successful club that wouldn't have been in administration long ago if they were anything other than a bank or a football club.
No doubt that's true regarding £25M valued players, which is no doubt why we're not spending that kind of money on individuals (not that we ever have). But is it equally true of £15M players, £10M players or even £7-8M players?
As regards how far do you go, only Lerner (and possibly Faulkner and Lambert) know the answer to that. I suppose my questions really are how much is Lerner actually worth, what proportion of that is he prepared to spend on the Villa, and could it be higher?
Given that the figure generally quoted at the time of his arrival was £1.something billion, and his family trust is worth more, that's all you can base your calculations on, which means that his outlay has been something like a quarter of his total wealth. Should we really ask him to spend more, and would the trustees of his fortune allow him to? Plus, it comes back to what i said earlier. It's long-term madness to expect your owner to keep spending money you have no hope of being able to recoup.
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Never had a problem with what we spent but would have liked a couple of experienced players in the squad instead of all cheap unknowns .
Still think Barry would have been great like Arsenal did with Flamini etc . Even the Top 4 get experience . We do need a general type at times .
My main concern is the signings made over the summer. I can't see Helanius, Tonev and Bacuna being good enough for this level. Lambert hasnt addressed last seasons issue. We all knew he needed a quality centre half (Okore's injury was a massive blow) A leader in midfield was required, along with a creative midfielder -and possibly a left back to challange Bennett.
We've got a group of young players, but they need some experienced players to support them.
We could have easily have addressed this by some cheap additions: Assou-Ekotto and Huddlestone from Spurs, Gareth Barry from Everton and Charlie Austin from Burnely.
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Only read a few posts. I understand how Lambert operates and up to a point agree but is anyone happy we seem to have a team of journeymen? If we had around half a team of homegrown last night then fine but there was nothing to get excited about.
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Given that the figure generally quoted at the time of his arrival was £1.something billion, and his family trust is worth more, that's all you can base your calculations on, which means that his outlay has been something like a quarter of his total wealth. Should we really ask him to spend more, and would the trustees of his fortune allow him to? Plus, it comes back to what i said earlier. It's long-term madness to expect your owner to keep spending money you have no hope of being able to recoup.
Eye-watering sums, it's true, even more so when he has jack shit to show for it. He can't possibly have bought the club with the expectation that he would make money though surely? He must have known that football clubs, particularly English ones, are a money pit.
Should we ask him to spend more? As fans, when we see the club struggling and the owner has £750M in the bank then the answer has to be yes doesn't it? As grateful as I am for the money he has put in my main concern is the giving the team the best possible chance; frankly my worries about whether Lerner has £750M, £650M or £550M in the bank are minimal. I mean, Christ, talk about having more money than you could possibly ever need.
Bearing those sorts of sums in mind it seems puzzling to be ignoring a pressing requirement like a top class midfielder over £4M (or whatever it may have been).
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Given that the figure generally quoted at the time of his arrival was £1.something billion, and his family trust is worth more, that's all you can base your calculations on, which means that his outlay has been something like a quarter of his total wealth. Should we really ask him to spend more, and would the trustees of his fortune allow him to? Plus, it comes back to what i said earlier. It's long-term madness to expect your owner to keep spending money you have no hope of being able to recoup.
Eye-watering sums, it's true, even more so when he has jack shit to show for it. He can't possibly have bought the club with the expectation that he would make money though surely? He must have known that football clubs, particularly English ones, are a money pit.
Should we ask him to spend more? As fans, when we see the club struggling and the owner has £750M in the bank then the answer has to be yes doesn't it? As grateful as I am for the money he has put in my main concern is the giving the team the best possible chance; frankly my worries about whether Lerner has £750M, £650M or £550M in the bank are minimal. I mean, Christ, talk about having more money than you could possibly ever need.
Bearing those sorts of sums in mind it seems puzzling to be ignoring a pressing requirement like a top class midfielder over £4M (or whatever it may have been).
I've a fair idea why he bought the club. What you say about the remainder of his wealth is, and this isn't a dig at you, exactly what Wolves fans said about Jack Hayward when he announced the golden tit had run dry. It's his money, to do with as he likes, and it's ever so easy to casually say that someone should spend £100/200 million/300 million on what is essentially a hobby because he's got plenty left.
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I'd like to be able to add something constructive but I can't.
So, progress my arse!
There's only one way this club is going and it's not up.
We've reached a point in time when even some long standing supporters who've heard it all have bought into the whole 'we have no money' bullshit. Of course we have money!, EVERY club has just had a massive extra windfall and they haven't all been through about 3 seasons of cost cutting extraordinaire either. We've trimmed the wage bill significantly, we've also trimmed the squad in terms of size and quality too, including not replacing the better players with ones even just as equally good.
It says a lot when supporters are talking a few games into a season as being happy just to stay up or float around the lower end of the table yet again. Or happy to get knocked out of a cup we could win because we 'can concentrate on the staying in the league' ... WTF ?
The dumbing down of the supporters expectations by the club and the lapping up of it is quite breathtaking to my mind.
I sense a turning point coming with the home crowd, and its not going to be pretty.
And who can blame them/us ?
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Given that the figure generally quoted at the time of his arrival was £1.something billion, and his family trust is worth more, that's all you can base your calculations on, which means that his outlay has been something like a quarter of his total wealth. Should we really ask him to spend more, and would the trustees of his fortune allow him to? Plus, it comes back to what i said earlier. It's long-term madness to expect your owner to keep spending money you have no hope of being able to recoup.
Eye-watering sums, it's true, even more so when he has jack shit to show for it. He can't possibly have bought the club with the expectation that he would make money though surely? He must have known that football clubs, particularly English ones, are a money pit.
Should we ask him to spend more? As fans, when we see the club struggling and the owner has £750M in the bank then the answer has to be yes doesn't it? As grateful as I am for the money he has put in my main concern is the giving the team the best possible chance; frankly my worries about whether Lerner has £750M, £650M or £550M in the bank are minimal. I mean, Christ, talk about having more money than you could possibly ever need.
Bearing those sorts of sums in mind it seems puzzling to be ignoring a pressing requirement like a top class midfielder over £4M (or whatever it may have been).
I've a fair idea why he bought the club. What you say about the remainder of his wealth is, and this isn't a dig at you, exactly what Wolves fans said about Jack Hayward when he announced the golden tit had run dry. It's his money, to do with as he likes, and it's ever so easy to casually say that someone should spend £100/200 million/300 million on what is essentially a hobby because he's got plenty left.
The reason they said, and the reason I say it, is because it's a valid point. If a guy has £750M in the bank - which is by anyone's standard more money than you could possibly ever need - then not paying over the odds for a player (say £4-5M), to the detriment of the team, seems excessively cautious. It's less than 1% of his wealth.
It brings me back to one of my original points: that Lerner could spend more if he wanted to, but he doesn't want to. Now if he was only worth a tenth of what he is then it would be easier to understand. But £750M?? If that's his attitude - and, as you say, it's his money and he can do what he likes with it - would we not be better off with someone who would almost certainly be less wealthy but had a greater degree of football knowledge?
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I have a concern that this summer most of our signings have come from overseas. Last year the majority of our younger signings were domestic players. The likes of Helenius, Bacuna etc may well take longer to settle than Lowton, Westwood etc. Again, we've clearly looked at signing more home based players, but I would imagine got priced out. Lamberts first choice left back did appear to be Cresswell at Ipswich. We were linked to him before settling on Bennett. We were linked with him again before settling on Luna. But obviously signing English talent proves costly, especially after you have a degree of success.
I would say it's harder for someone like Helenius coming from Denmark, than it is for someone like Lowton. He'd played 100 odd English league games. The physicality and pace of the game remains similar down the leagues, without as much technical quality.
When you come off the back of a poor season, and you have to bed in 7 new players, you'd ideally like most of them to A- be good enough and B- hit the ground running. I suspect some of our players may struggle. Kozak will probably be okay. Bacuna has bundles of energy and the Dutch league isn't too shabby. I worry about Tonev and Helenius. It may take more time for them to find their feet (if they're good enough).
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I said a few pages ago that its my belief there will be three or four young players come in next summer, who are further down the development track than the players we’ve purchased to build the squad thus far. I am talking about players costing between £7-10 million who will come in and strengthen the spine of the first XI, financed on the back of Benteke's sale. I think this explains why Lambert is willing to wait on the number 10 he wants.
I think the players we have this year will be enough for us to go from 16th to 12-8th and then next summer, make us more competitive to push getting back towards the top 7/6 again.
I think anything beyond that is unattainable without a serious windfall or stumbling on players of Benteke’s ilk all in one go.
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The reason they said, and the reason I say it, is because it's a valid point. If a guy has £750M in the bank - which is by anyone's standard more money than you could possibly ever need - then not paying over the odds for a player (say £4-5M), to the detriment of the team, seems excessively cautious. It's less than 1% of his wealth.
It brings me back to one of my original points: that Lerner could spend more if he wanted to, but he doesn't want to. Now if he was only worth a tenth of what he is then it would be easier to understand. But £750M?? If that's his attitude - and, as you say, it's his money and he can do what he likes with it - would we not be better off with someone who would almost certainly be less wealthy but had a greater degree of football knowledge?
And you can guarantee that within seconds the cry would be to sell to someone who can compete with the oligarchs. I repeat what I keep saying, and nobody seems to have addressed - you can't keep expecting your owner to hand over money like an indulgent parent 'lending' a skint child a few quid until payday.
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The reason they said, and the reason I say it, is because it's a valid point. If a guy has £750M in the bank - which is by anyone's standard more money than you could possibly ever need - then not paying over the odds for a player (say £4-5M), to the detriment of the team, seems excessively cautious. It's less than 1% of his wealth.
It brings me back to one of my original points: that Lerner could spend more if he wanted to, but he doesn't want to. Now if he was only worth a tenth of what he is then it would be easier to understand. But £750M?? If that's his attitude - and, as you say, it's his money and he can do what he likes with it - would we not be better off with someone who would almost certainly be less wealthy but had a greater degree of football knowledge?
And you can guarantee that within seconds the cry would be to sell to someone who can compete with the oligarchs. I repeat what I keep saying, and nobody seems to have addressed - you can't keep expecting your owner to hand over money like an indulgent parent 'lending' a skint child a few quid until payday.
Especially when he has already gone down that route and as glib as this may sound, achieve nothing more than O'Leary did.
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The reason they said, and the reason I say it, is because it's a valid point. If a guy has £750M in the bank - which is by anyone's standard more money than you could possibly ever need - then not paying over the odds for a player (say £4-5M), to the detriment of the team, seems excessively cautious. It's less than 1% of his wealth.
It brings me back to one of my original points: that Lerner could spend more if he wanted to, but he doesn't want to. Now if he was only worth a tenth of what he is then it would be easier to understand. But £750M?? If that's his attitude - and, as you say, it's his money and he can do what he likes with it - would we not be better off with someone who would almost certainly be less wealthy but had a greater degree of football knowledge?
And you can guarantee that within seconds the cry would be to sell to someone who can compete with the oligarchs. I repeat what I keep saying, and nobody seems to have addressed - you can't keep expecting your owner to hand over money like an indulgent parent 'lending' a skint child a few quid until payday.
No and you'd hope that somehow or another the financial fair play rules will actually be properly enforced. I seriously cannot see how Man City get away with it. There's no way they make enough to cover how much they spend on fees and wages.
In Spurs case I think they just about do. They sell sensibly and they spend money when they appear to have it.
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I know Okore getting injured is a massive blow as he may have gelled with Vlaar, but I would still have got another experienced CB and got rid of one of ours. Potentially got a new defensive coach as we really need to be getting better there.
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And you can guarantee that within seconds the cry would be to sell to someone who can compete with the oligarchs. I repeat what I keep saying, and nobody seems to have addressed - you can't keep expecting your owner to hand over money like an indulgent parent 'lending' a skint child a few quid until payday.
No, it's a fair point and after the O'Neill era it was clear some financial restructuring had to happen. But surely with an owner worth £750M we're not in a position where we'd rather have a gaping hole in our midfield than fork out a bit extra for a top class midfielder?
As for 'bring in the oligarchs', yes I'm sure the more excitable would make that call. But that doesn't answer my question. An owner with precious little football knowledge who, on the face it of it at least, seems more preoccupied ensuring his £750M doesn't soon become £700M than he is with making sure his team has a decent midfielder, can't be the limit of our ambition can it?
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Okore gets injured - game later, we keep a clean sheet.
Benteke gets injured - 90 seconds later his replacement scores.
Massive blows? We'll see.
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Okore gets injured - game later, we keep a clean sheet.
Benteke gets injured - 90 seconds later his replacement scores.
Massive blows? We'll see.
I think that may have been more an indication that Norwich will be this years equivilant of us under McLeish.
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And you can guarantee that within seconds the cry would be to sell to someone who can compete with the oligarchs. I repeat what I keep saying, and nobody seems to have addressed - you can't keep expecting your owner to hand over money like an indulgent parent 'lending' a skint child a few quid until payday.
No, it's a fair point and after the O'Neill era it was clear some financial restructuring had to happen. But surely with an owner worth £750M we're not in a position where we'd rather have a gaping hole in our midfield than fork out a bit extra for a top class midfielder?
As for 'bring in the oligarchs', yes I'm sure the more excitable would make that call. But that doesn't answer my question. An owner with precious little football knowledge who, on the face it of it at least, seems more preoccupied ensuring his £750M doesn't soon become £700M than he is with making sure his team has a decent midfielder, can't be the limit of our ambition can it?
I'm sure he knows more about football than you give him credit for.
What do you mean by the limit of our ambition? On the pitch, or in terms of ownership? If it's the latter, then you can't judge how much he's willing to spend because it's never publicly been tested.
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I'm sure he knows more about football than you give him credit for.
Two words: Alex. McLeish.
I'm being flippant but it's very hard to look past a blunder of such staggering proportions.
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I'm sure he knows more about football than you give him credit for.
Two words: Alex. McLeish.
I'm being flippant but it's very hard to look past a blunder of such staggering proportions.
I haven't time to try to understand that one; I believe a killer meteorite is headed our way in about 5 billion years.
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I haven't time to try to understand that one; I believe a killer meteorite is headed our way in about 5 billion years.
Quite. Saying "Alex McLeish" is the H&V equivalent of Mornington Crescent.
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Okore gets injured - game later, we keep a clean sheet.
Benteke gets injured - 90 seconds later his replacement scores.
Massive blows? We'll see.
I think even the most optimistic will probably admit that it's unlikely that Kozak can have the same impact and importance as Benteke. Benteke being out is a big blow, hopefully he'll be back within 4 weeks. Losing Okore is a big blow as well.
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I would hope that come next summer the majority of the high earners we've been lumbered with will be gone. Therefore if the likes of Norwich and Swansea can afford decent fees for highly rated players from Europe, we could do the same. I'm not talking about us going nuts. I'm hopeful some of our young players will become top players. However I think we need to add some slightly more established talent to the squad.
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I haven't time to try to understand that one; I believe a killer meteorite is headed our way in about 5 billion years.
Quite. Saying "Alex McLeish" is the H&V equivalent of Mornington Crescent.
Well, shame on you.
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The way Lambert has us set up, we don't have the ability to create chances for a striker very often, Benteke has the exceptional talent to create his own and Kozak, like Bent doesn't appear to be in that same boat
Up until now you'd have to say our football has been pretty dire, well how is it going to get better knowing we'll almost certainly be relying on a hoof ball up pitch until Benteke comes back?
That is unless Lambert unearths some tactical nous or creative football plan we've not seen in his locker until now
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I haven't time to try to understand that one; I believe a killer meteorite is headed our way in about 5 billion years.
Quite. Saying "Alex McLeish" is the H&V equivalent of Mornington Crescent.
I disagree. The person who says "Mornington Crescent" actually wins the game.
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I haven't time to try to understand that one; I believe a killer meteorite is headed our way in about 5 billion years.
Quite. Saying "Alex McLeish" is the H&V equivalent of Mornington Crescent.
I disagree. The person who says "Mornington Crescent" actually wins the game.
Which, sir, is not the purpose of the exercise.
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The way Lambert has us set up, we don't have the ability to create chances for a striker very often, Benteke has the exceptional talent to create his own and Kozak, like Bent doesn't appear to be in that same boat
Up until now you'd have to say our football has been pretty dire, well how is it going to get better knowing we'll almost certainly be relying on a hoof ball up pitch until Benteke comes back?
That is unless Lambert unearths some tactical nous or creative football plan we've not seen in his locker until now
You have a bee in your bonnet about Lamberts tactical approach. Could you explain in any detail how he's going wrong and what he should be doing to put it right?
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The way Lambert has us set up, we don't have the ability to create chances for a striker very often, Benteke has the exceptional talent to create his own and Kozak, like Bent doesn't appear to be in that same boat
Up until now you'd have to say our football has been pretty dire, well how is it going to get better knowing we'll almost certainly be relying on a hoof ball up pitch until Benteke comes back?
That is unless Lambert unearths some tactical nous or creative football plan we've not seen in his locker until now
You have a bee in your bonnet about Lamberts tactical approach. Could you explain in any detail how he's going wrong and what he should be doing to put it right?
Away it's fine and we're pretty successful. At home it's not good enough, because we don't retain possession and build pressure. You need to be able to open teams up through the centre when they sit back and that's what we struggle with.
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The way Lambert has us set up, we don't have the ability to create chances for a striker very often, Benteke has the exceptional talent to create his own and Kozak, like Bent doesn't appear to be in that same boat
Up until now you'd have to say our football has been pretty dire, well how is it going to get better knowing we'll almost certainly be relying on a hoof ball up pitch until Benteke comes back?
That is unless Lambert unearths some tactical nous or creative football plan we've not seen in his locker until now
You have a bee in your bonnet about Lamberts tactical approach. Could you explain in any detail how he's going wrong and what he should be doing to put it right?
Away it's fine and we're pretty successful. At home it's not good enough, because we don't retain possession and build pressure. You need to be able to open teams up through the centre when they sit back and that's what we struggle with.
I know, it just makes me laugh when folk site 'tactics' as the reason for a defeat, without having the first clue about them, or even what they were.
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I know, it just makes me laugh when folk site 'tactics' as the reason for a defeat, without having the first clue about them, or even what they were.
Although to be fair, you could also say that about the players.
BOOM. I'm so cool.
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I know, it just makes me laugh when folk site 'tactics' as the reason for a defeat, without having the first clue about them, or even what they were.
Although to be fair, you could also say that about the players.
BOOM. I'm so cool.
True dat.
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The only two similarities between Bent and Kozak are that they're both strikers, and neither are as good as Benteke. Completely different types of player.
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I've had my usual post match whine and moan, so fuck it, lets crack on.
I'm not going to the City game though, I'm not mental.
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You have a bee in your bonnet about Lamberts tactical approach. Could you explain in any detail how he's going wrong and what he should be doing to put it right?
You're damn right there Lee.
I'd have thought it obvious where we're going wrong seeing as our home form is absolutely chronic under him. He has no plan B, its attack on the break with pace or nothing at all. We have no finesse (despite Lambert having 3 transfer windows to add some), no creativity and basically no midfielder competent enough to take a game by the scruff of the neck and rally the troops (again, he's had time but failed to bring one in). We have a midfield that between them have gained something like 100 league appearances for Villa without scoring a goal. They all play the same game, in and around the middle third of the pitch with absolutely no attacking threat or even defensive cover at the other end. The only thing we seem to have actually going for us is Benteke (who'll be off next summer regardless) and Guzan who isn't being helped by having a defence weaker than a wet tissue in front of him.
And then the defence, which is an ongoing shambles.
So, its fair to say not only have i got a bee in my bonnet about the managers inability to buy in players to make us better, i've also got grave reservations he knows what he's doing at all. Some claimed O'Neill was a limited manager ... compared to Lambert he looks like a magician right now
This is Lambert's team. There can be no doubt about that. And it rests on his shoulders and his buys to show that he/they know what the hell they're doing. Becaus eas it stands you'd have to say they don't look like they have a fucking clue
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Kozak to me looks like a Bent style striker, in other words one that relies on chances being created for him. The fact that we got rid of Bent and then paid 7m for him knowing we'd have the same problem causes me a headache.
The only two similarities between Bent and Kozak are that they're both strikers, and neither are as good as Benteke. Completely different types of player.
I would have kept Bent and spent the £7 million money towards a creative midfielder , but hey , Im not the manger , Lambert thinks he knows best and lets hope he does . But we are looking clueless at home.
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I agree with a lot of what's been said, mainly by Monty, but as regards our budget I'm genuinely in the dark as to what Lerner's attitude is. Is it:
a) he wants to spend more but simply doesn't have any more over and above that which we are already spending;
b) he does have more money in reserve but for whatever reason doesn't want to spend any more on the Villa than he has to;
c) he doesn't have any more money and wouldn't spend it on the Villa even if he did.
Unless he's had some catastrophic financial misfortune that I've not yet read about I find it hard to believe that a and c are true. Which leaves b. After O'Neill's profligacy I can understand he's now much more cautious with his money and I would be too. But I can't help wondering whether this caution is more motivated by what's best for Lerner as opposed to what's best for the Villa. I mean, since O'Neill left we've basically been getting two-thirds of the points we got under him and flirted with relegation at least twice.
I think we all recognise what a difference a £10M midfielder would make to our first team. Okay, maybe Lambert couldn't find one and, rather than not spend the money, bought Kozak in perhaps with one eye on Benteke not being here much longer. I'd like to think that in January, unless someone really steps up, we'll try our very best to get one one in then but we were in a similar position last January and, if I recall correctly, didn't address our defensive weakness. It's that sort of thing which makes me wonder whether Lerner is really doing everything he can to give us the best possible chance to succeed.
Before the financial crash the Bank Of America shares he took in exchange for his share of MBNA were worth 2.5 billion dollars. After the crash they were worth over 2 billion dollars less. After a slight rally, they have now lost ONLY seventy percent of their pre-crash value.
Now I'd love to have 7/800 million dollars worth of BoA shares, but Randy is probably gutted about it.
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Lambert has one tactic because he had to get a team together which has a plan, as opposed to the appalling aimlessness of the previous regime. That plan is sometimes great to watch, but it is limited.
The evidence that he has more in mind can be summed up in two words: Wes Hoolahan. Lambert made him look like a midtable Premier League standard playmaker through tactical adjustments which brought the best out of him. You also only need to look at his time at Norwich, when he had the squad he'd been building towards for years, for evidence of his tactical variety - Norwich players go on about it, Norwich fans go on about it, even Michael Cox and Jonathan Wilson went on about it: Lambert's Norwich were the most tactically varied and unpredictable team in the league.
I believe Hoolahan was a big part of that variety because it allowed him to play a more imposing, fluid style of football at home, as well as a terrific player of the outball on the counter-attack (like Barry for us years ago). Once he has his Hoolahan at Villa, I think that player will make a hell of a lot of difference. It's frustrating in the meantime, but we did have to get an actual style together first before building on it, and I think his tactical approach so far can be summed up by the word 'consolidation'. He has the reputation - let's hope he furthers it.
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Basing opinion on the season performances so far, and not just last night's defeat, I must admit my mood has changed from anger to worry and trepidation.
Paul Lambert has, rightly or wrongly, been backed by the vast majority of supporters up till now. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, had the Holte turned on the manager/players during our dodgy spell last season, there's a real chance we'd have gone down - as we all know team morale, confidence and performances can be influenced by critical, disenchanted supporters, both home and away.
Now, not for the first time, but certainly at its loudest since he came here, I am leaving the ground hearing others making repeated, uncomplimentary things about the way the team is playing. The difference being, this criticism is no longer being aimed at the players, the questions are being asked of the manager.
If this level of performance carries on, and dont forget we have City next up, I sense the crowd are very close to turning.
And once that happens we really will be trouble.
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Before the financial crash the Bank Of America shares he took in exchange for his share of MBNA were worth 2.5 billion dollars. After the crash they were worth over 2 billion dollars less. After a slight rally, they have now lost ONLY seventy percent of their pre-crash value.
Now I'd love to have 7/800 million dollars worth of BoA shares, but Randy is probably gutted about it.
Ta for that Percy. Talk about your 'the value of your investment can rise and fall'.
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Can you imagine the yearly interest earned on 700 million dollars ?
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"On-going progress"?
Like all big change programmes, there are some real rollercoaster times. Last season we hit the big dip before Xmas and only saw the (relative) heights in April-May.
This season, we've had some reasonably good games - the games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Norwich all had some encouraging facets.
We've also seen the limitations of the Chariman's and Manager's strategy, in the Barcodes game and last night.
Given the players that were unavailable last night, I can see why Lambert played the way he did in terms of selection and tactics: he has to give the players he bought some chances to get into the P'ship pace - people like Bacuna, Tonev, Helenius and Kozak will be less effective later in the season if they haven't had some run-outs now. He had to try and nullify the oppos obvious superiority in midfield by playing 5 across it.
Our on-going progress can only be assessed if we look at the progress of other teams in the P'ship: many of them have strengthened substantially - particularly last night's opponents who have had the opportuntiy to buy some world-class players (at the moment they are streets ahead of us in terms of development). But so too have Liverpool, Everton, Southampton and Swansea. No need to talk about Citeh, Chelsea and ManUre (who haven't strengthened so much but still have a squad that we'd love to pick from).
So, our progress is still patchy - bound to be - and is dependent on whether the new players can adapt to the P'ship and blend their skills into the squad; and whether last season's better players can kick on.
Another season of ups and downs.
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I reckon Lambert will improve us but by how much? I have no idea myself. Getting more points than last season shouldn't be difficult and should be expected.
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I feel that bad decisions at villa, particularly since 2010 have created this vortex where getting to 40 points asap, and making a profit on bargain signings which can then be reinvested, is the height of our ambition.
I'd strongly argue that our ambitions are beyond that but the things you identify are our immediate route to get there. It's pointless saying we have ambitions to be champions league without identifying some intermediate steps. Initially we tried buying our way there, failed, and now we're trying something else.
However I agree that we've made some terrible decisions which have completely hampered our progress.
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I feel that bad decisions at villa, particularly since 2010 have created this vortex where getting to 40 points asap, and making a profit on bargain signings which can then be reinvested, is the height of our ambition.
I'd strongly argue that our ambitions are beyond that but the things you identify are our immediate route to get there. It's pointless saying we have ambitions to be champions league without identifying a route how to get there. Initially we tried buying our way there, failed, and now we're trying something else.
I agree that we've made some terrible decisions which have completely hampered our progress.
I don't think we can realistically expect to compete for a champions league place without huge cash outlay on players , the way we are going now should see steady improvement up to a certain level but champions league is not something i see happening for a long time unless its through huge financial backing.
We will progress but as we have found once players establish themselves they will want today at a higher level and the top money clubs will be sniffing around.
I have limited my ambitions to possibly 7th or 8th at best for a few seasons ahead and maybe a cup win somewhere down the line , however winning a cup will only be an option if we field out strongest team against the good sides.
The glory days at the villa competing at the top end are over for a good while to come i fear.
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Tottenham and more to the point spurs have both managed to get themselves in or around Champions League without spending beyond their means so it is possible. I know they're both London clubs but spurs are handicapped by a small ground so we do have some things in our favour.
You are correct that it will take a long time, fucking ages in fact, but I don't really see an alternative.
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Tottenham and more to the point spurs have both managed to get themselves in or around Champions League without spending beyond their means so it is possible. I know they're both London clubs but spurs are handicapped by a small ground so we do have some things in our favour.
You are correct that it will take a long time, fucking ages in fact, but I don't really see an alternative.
Yes but Tottenham have spent wisely on experienced quality players and they have spent a lot of cash and also chosen wisely with managers - also spurs haven't done badly either ;)
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Ooops, I meant Arsenal and Spurs.
But Spurs have generally bought young players, or at least they are the ones who they've sold which has allowed them to reinvest and grow. That's the way I see it anyway. There's nothing to stop us doing the same assuming Faulkner can provide the same continuity that Levy has provided spurs.
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Spurs have the backing of a billionaire who is prepared to spend some money. They have a wily old chairman in Levy who has been there ages and makes Faulkner look like a schoolboy. Lerner wont spend big and I dont blame him. Its probably because he cant afford to to or he simply wont.
Like others say the Kozak purchase baffled me and on the basis of what ive seen so far he looks a bit limited to me. Early days, I know but doesnt look mobile. Time will tell.
For the first time in years the Newastle first half particularly bored me rigid. We were awful and as abad as anything last season. Similarly, Liverpool was poor. The only positive was the first two games of the season where we looked genuinely good in part.
Id love to know what happended to the lack of youngsters coming through. Tere appears no one on the horizon who is good enough to come through. Shame, we could really do with a Sid Cowans in midfield
Big season for Lambert. Dont think the fans will turn anytime soon, but if we are bottom 5 or worse come January, the swell of disapproval will be heard big time frm the Holte.
Cant say Im looking forward to today. I can see City walking it 3 nil. Hope im wrong and the confidence does ebb away quickly.
Finally to all those in the ground today booing at half time whatever the score doesnt help. If you must boo leave it until full time
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Spurs have the backing of a billionaire who is prepared to spend some money. They have a wily old chairman in Levy who has been there ages and makes Faulkner look like a schoolboy. Lerner wont spend big and I dont blame him. Its probably because he cant afford to to or he simply wont.
Like others say the Kozak purchase baffled me and on the basis of what ive seen so far he looks a bit limited to me. Early days, I know but doesnt look mobile. Time will tell.
For the first time in years the Newastle first half particularly bored me rigid. We were awful and as abad as anything last season. Similarly, Liverpool was poor. The only positive was the first two games of the season where we looked genuinely good in part.
Id love to know what happended to the lack of youngsters coming through. Tere appears no one on the horizon who is good enough to come through. Shame, we could really do with a Sid Cowans in midfield
Big season for Lambert. Dont think the fans will turn anytime soon, but if we are bottom 5 or worse come January, the swell of disapproval will be heard big time frm the Holte.
Cant say Im looking forward to today. I can see City walking it 3 nil. Hope im wrong and the confidence does ebb away quickly.
Finally to all those in the ground today booing at half time whatever the score doesnt help. If you must boo leave it until full time
I would say grealish looks like he could be the real deal , although i had high hopes for Gary Gardner a couple of years back and he seems injury prone with another injury setback now .
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Spurs have the backing of a billionaire who is prepared to spend some money. They have a wily old chairman in Levy who has been there ages and makes Faulkner look like a schoolboy. Lerner wont spend big and I dont blame him. Its probably because he cant afford to to or he simply wont.
I'm too lazy to check but I'm pretty sure Spurs make a profit after transfers more years than not, so whilst a billionaire is behind them they're cash is self generated (unlike us in the early Randy years).
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Spurs have the backing of a billionaire who is prepared to spend some money. They have a wily old chairman in Levy who has been there ages and makes Faulkner look like a schoolboy. Lerner wont spend big and I dont blame him. Its probably because he cant afford to to or he simply wont.
I'm too lazy to check but I'm pretty sure Spurs make a profit after transfers more years than not, so whilst a billionaire is behind them they're cash is self generated (unlike us in the early Randy years).
On the whole they do. They've always sold as well as they've bought to be fair. They're pretty much a prime example of a club running efficiently in the fair play rules. They do big wages but not as crazy as the likes of City, Chelsea etc. As said, they do tend to buy young players and let them develop well.
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It also took Spurs about 15 years of finishing mid-table before they got anywhere near the top four.
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Spurs have the backing of a billionaire who is prepared to spend some money. They have a wily old chairman in Levy who has been there ages and makes Faulkner look like a schoolboy. Lerner wont spend big and I dont blame him. Its probably because he cant afford to to or he simply wont.
I'm too lazy to check but I'm pretty sure Spurs make a profit after transfers more years than not, so whilst a billionaire is behind them they're cash is self generated (unlike us in the early Randy years).
On the whole they do. They've always sold as well as they've bought to be fair. They're pretty much a prime example of a club running efficiently in the fair play rules. They do big wages but not as crazy as the likes of City, Chelsea etc. As said, they do tend to buy young players and let them develop well.
They buy young, household names. We buy young, relative unknowns (well to fans anyway) I like both approaches, but I can only see one playing near the top four.
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It also took Spurs about 15 years of finishing mid-table before they got anywhere near the top four.
They've also almost culturally with their club always had a very particular way of playing. Very few managers have tried changing that. There was the french geezer a few years back but he was disaster.
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The books are being balanced so we are a stage closer to Lerner selling up to some Sheikh or Oligarch who will take us on to the next level. So in that respect, a sort of depressing slant on progress.
On the pitch, at times we look sublime and other times we look Pub Sunday Morning league. Rollercoaster .
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Another major difference between us and Spurs is when they do sell one of their better players, they tend to replace with ones of a similar standard. Therefore the team rarely suffers like us
I'm still reeling over getting 38m for Young/Downing and expecting a 9m N'Zogbia to replace both of their assists and goals
Or getting 18m and Ireland for Milner but not actually replacing the engine of the side
It just can't be done. No matter how cheap Lerner wants it to be, you spend pennies you'll get exactly what we have. Bottom half fodder
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At least we have a manager now who i think will spend any money he gets wisely or at least try and get value for money. I don't think you'll be seeing us spend £8-9m on the likes of Warnock and N'Zogbia while he's in charge, which i find encouraging.
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It also took Spurs about 15 years of finishing mid-table before they got anywhere near the top four.
They've also almost culturally with their club always had a very particular way of playing. Very few managers have tried changing that. There was the french geezer a few years back but he was disaster.
And they always make out that they don't want to win anything anyway as it's too vulgar.
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I'm reserving further judgment until Xmas. Realistically, we may not get many points at all from the next few games, it's November and December that will go along way towards dictating how our season pans out
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Another major difference between us and Spurs is when they do sell one of their better players, they tend to replace with ones of a similar standard. Therefore the team rarely suffers like us
I'm still reeling over getting 38m for Young/Downing and expecting a 9m N'Zogbia to replace both of their assists and goals
Or getting 18m and Ireland for Milner but not actually replacing the engine of the side
It just can't be done. No matter how cheap Lerner wants it to be, you spend pennies you'll get exactly what we have. Bottom half fodder
He also used that cash to spend 20m on Bent in fairness.
A terribly high percentage of our signings on high wages over the past few years, post-O'Neill (who had his own mixed record), have not worked out for whatever reason (Ireland, Makoun, Zog, Hutton, Given, Bent ultimately though you could argue he had a big hand in keeping us up in 2011 and therefore repaid all monies concerning him) so, as Mr Woodhall says, at what stage do you say enough is enough?
Presumably, in his interview for the job, Lambert told Lerner that he could spot unproven but talented players for relatively little money that would help the club become more sustainable. To which Randy must have ruffled Paul's head and said something like "I'll still have a few bob - isn't that the expression you guys use over here?, to give to you for the more deluxe purchases should you require it. When can you start?"
I mean, presumably Lerner was serious enough about spending a fair bit on a salary for Clint Dempsey seeing as we had an offer accepted. He's not nearly as tight/bored/negligible as people think. A bit naive (TSM) and unlucky that the managers he's given money to have wasted a lot of it but it's a chairman's duty to back his manager which he has done to a more than reasonable level.
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Another major difference between us and Spurs is when they do sell one of their better players, they tend to replace with ones of a similar standard. Therefore the team rarely suffers like us
I'm still reeling over getting 38m for Young/Downing and expecting a 9m N'Zogbia to replace both of their assists and goals
Or getting 18m and Ireland for Milner but not actually replacing the engine of the side
It just can't be done. No matter how cheap Lerner wants it to be, you spend pennies you'll get exactly what we have. Bottom half fodder
A terribly high percentage of our signings on high wages over the past few years, post-O'Neill (who had his own mixed record), have not worked out for whatever reason (Ireland, Makoun, Zog, Hutton, Given, Bent ultimately though you could argue he had a big hand in keeping us up in 2011 and therefore repaid all monies concerning him) so, as Mr Woodhall says, at what stage do you say enough is enough?
I think the fact that he's still handing over £7m on transfer deadline day gets overlooked.
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The money is made in the champions league and we are a million miles away from that level right now, does lerner invest say £30m to turn us into a Europa league team where there is little money to be won and perhaps finish 7th earning an extra £5m or so in prize money for an outlay of his £30m - or does he decide to just spend a few million and keep in the premiership - he has tried throwing money at getting into the top 4 and it failed , I can't blame him if he chooses not to risk big money again.
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The money is made in the champions league and we are a million miles away from that level right now, does lerner invest say £30m to turn us into a Europa league team where there is little money to be won and perhaps finish 7th earning an extra £5m or so in prize money for an outlay of his £30m - or does he decide to just spend a few million and keep in the premiership - he has tried throwing money at getting into the top 4 and it failed , I can't blame him if he chooses not to risk big money again.
[/The money is made in the champions league and we are a million miles away from that level right now, does lerner invest say £30m to turn us into a Europa league team where there is little moneys to be won and perhaps finish 7th earning an extra £5m or so in prize money for an outlay of his £30m - or does he decide to just spend a few million and keep in the premiership - he has tried throwing money at getting into the top 4 and it failed , I can't blame him if he chooses not to risk big money again.
Depressing reality is that their is only 5 or 6 teams that can possibly challenge for champions league spots as things stand. But arsenal have managed it without spending absolute fortunes much to the annoyance of some of their fans. It's the Wenger approach we could aspire too, massive investment isn't going to happen with the current owner. We are not alone, some good old football clubs out there treading water like us, Everton, Newcastle for example.
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Arsenal have 60,000 gates plus they have had champions league cash for over a decade and their income is huge compared to ours.
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Arsenal have the biggest matchday income in the world, plus as eastie said, once you're in the Champions League regularly it becomes self-perpetuating.
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Arsenal have 60,000 gates plus they have had champions league cash for over a decade and their income is huge compared to ours.
True but they have bought youngsters in and tried to improve them, that's the comparison I was trying to make. Can't say Chelsea, Man City or Man U in recent years followed that route
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Arsenal have the biggest matchday income in the world, plus as eastie said, once you're in the Champions League regularly it becomes self-perpetuating.
When I was young I used to see Arsenal and Villa as equals (late 50's early 60's). Depressing to think how left behind we became. Now where does the blame start!
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Arsenal have the biggest matchday income in the world, plus as eastie said, once you're in the Champions League regularly it becomes self-perpetuating.
When I was young I used to see Arsenal and Villa as equals (late 50's early 60's). Depressing to think how left behind we became. Now where does the blame start!
It's been many many years since we've been equal to Arsenal, so even I can't blame Lerner for that.
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Even though spurs overtook us years ago they still can't win a trophy but there again, I suppose that's not the point these days.
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Even though spurs overtook us years ago they still can't win a trophy but there again, I suppose that's not the point these days.
Spurs have often lacked a really top manager. While Arsenal went and found great success in hiring Wenger, they struggled with inconsistent managers. There was always that base of wanting to play proper football. There's an expectation Spurs have, which is to have a few flash midfielders and a goalscoring center forward or two.
When they got Redknapp he really kicked them on. There was a level of consistency. I also think they got AVB at the right time too. A lot is expected of AVB, to become the next Mourinho I guess. It didn't go right at Chelsea. He had the right idea, and that was to try and freshen things up and re-invent them as a younger side, but without the backing to usurp the Terry/Lampard power grip.
Had AVB been successful there's no way in hell he'd manage Spurs. He'd still be at Chelsea or could have been after the Real job this summer.
I see them adding trophies now. But yeah, they've a good transfer record generally, especially in the last 10 years. They kind of tried to make a push 10-15 years ago but couldn't escape mid-table thanks to expensive flops like Rebrov and Postiga. Since signing players of the ilk of Modric and Berbatov they've pushed on, generally. Whoever's been scouting these players has done very well, because they're bought for reasonable fees and sold for ridiculous fees.
But that's the thing, Spurs are far more marketable than us. You can probably buy a Spurs shirt in most sports shops around the country. You'd be lucky to find a Villa shirt outside the midlands. Again, people know who Tottenham are around the world. Not so much with us. So if you're working on the basis of club income, in relation to how much you can spend, they're gonna have more to spend on players.
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Despite the clear problems we have we are now 6 points better off and about ten goals than in the same 6 games last season. Cant be all that bad.
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Despite the clear problems we have we are now 6 points better off and about ten goals than in the same 6 games last season. Cant be all that bad.
I don't we'll be under relegation threat this year.
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Despite the clear problems we have we are now 6 points better off and about ten goals than in the same 6 games last season. Cant be all that bad.
Mate, when you consider we've played Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City in our first 6 games. We've beaten 2 of them, and we're robbed at Chelsea. Newcastle was shit, but to have 9 points isn't bad at all. Win at Hull next week, 12 points would likely be top 6, most certainly top 8 going into the international break. Then we get a very hungry Beast back for Spurs.
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Despite the clear problems we have we are now 6 points better off and about ten goals than in the same 6 games last season. Cant be all that bad.
Mate, when you consider we've played Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City in our first 6 games. We've beaten 2 of them, and we're robbed at Chelsea. Newcastle was shit, but to have 9 points isn't bad at all. Win at Hull next week, 12 points would likely be top 6, most certainly top 8 going into the international break. Then we get a very hungry Beast back for Spurs.
Spot on. I know the Newcastle game was very disappointing but on balance I am very pleased. Looking at these first six fixtures it could have been much worse.
But then again, I am a glass half full type, best go and top it up now
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This league is garbage, just look at the teams at the top.
Man. United are going back to the dark ages under Moyes, outplayed by West Brom at home! Can't say Chelsea have impressed me much and Man. City don't seem to like playing away from home very much despite having the best individuals in the league.
Comes to something when Spurs are arguably the best away team in the league.
No idea where we'll finish but I think people are bonkers if they think it's going to be another relegation scrap, going to be really open top and bottom this season and we've already beaten two of the better teams in the league (it was a very good time to play Arsenal).
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This league is garbage, just look at the teams at the top.
Man. United are going back to the dark ages under Moyes, outplayed by West Brom at home! Can't say Chelsea have impressed me much and Man. City don't seem to like playing away from home very much despite having the best individuals in the league.
Comes to something when Spurs are arguably the best away team in the league.
No idea where we'll finish but I think people are bonkers if they think it's going to be another relegation scrap, going to be really open top and bottom this season and we've already beaten two of the better teams in the league (it was a very good time to play Arsenal).
Arsenal since getting ozil look the best team I've seen by a distance.
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Yes they are going forward but suppose the worry is will they last the pace.
Getting Flamini back has improved them aswell, he was a regular in their last proper title challenge in 07/08.
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Arsenal will take some catching if they continue like this .
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Arsenal will take some catching if they continue like this .
We'll catch 'em!
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Arsenal still need a proper striker, Giroud is decent, but he's not title winning quality. The other issue is that they have a very thin squad in places. If they can stay fit they look a much better side than the rest up there.
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Going back to us, today was fantastic but a concern should be the reality of conceding twice from corners.
I was hoping we'd sorted that after last season's horror particularly today with three centre halfs in there.
Leaving Yaya Toure unmarked on the six yard box on the stroke of half time isn't very clever is it? We don't half concede some really soft goals at times.
It was also the same time as Spurs scored their first, we got away with it today, on Tuesday we didn't. Conceding right on half time after working so hard to keep it 0-0 isn't great on the mind and a habit we need to get out of.
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This league is garbage, just look at the teams at the top.
Man. United are going back to the dark ages under Moyes, outplayed by West Brom at home! Can't say Chelsea have impressed me much and Man. City don't seem to like playing away from home very much despite having the best individuals in the league.
Comes to something when Spurs are arguably the best away team in the league.
No idea where we'll finish but I think people are bonkers if they think it's going to be another relegation scrap, going to be really open top and bottom this season and we've already beaten two of the better teams in the league (it was a very good time to play Arsenal).
Erm, does 12 straight away wins not make Arsenal easily the best away team in the league!
Arsenal will fall at the final hurdle, mainly due to having no back up at all fr Giroud at the moment.
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The progress we are making is slow and will always be too slow. Thats because we all love the Villa and every time we conceed a goal it hurts. Every time we loose it reallly hurts and every time we play like shit it really really hurts.
If we won every game it would not be enough, we just want the perfect club.
I think we are moving slowly in the right direction, frustratingly it seems to be two steps forward and one step back sometimes three steps back then five steps forward.
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In corners, it is a concern and we could have defended them better
But if you concede as many as we did it's always likely you'll concede
Hopefully once our run of seemingly easier games starts we'll stop ceding so much possession
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Yes they are going forward but suppose the worry is will they last the pace.
Getting Flamini back has improved them aswell, he was a regular in their last proper title challenge in 07/08.
I thought them getting Flamini was an inspired move, he's just what every team (especially Arsenal) needs.
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That is another top side we have beaten and also another game where definsively, we limited them to two soft corners and next to notbing from open play. Much like Chelsea and Liverpool, Guzan hasn't had to make a serious save.
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That is another top side we have beaten and also another game where definsively, we limited them to two soft corners and next to notbing from open play. Much like Chelsea and Liverpool, Guzan hasn't had to make a serious save.
The defence is so so much better than last season. We let in two sloppy goals yesterday and we probably will from time to time, every team does but we do look a lot more organised. Last season will have done some of them young un's some good.
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That is another top side we have beaten and also another game where definsively, we limited them to two soft corners and next to notbing from open play. Much like Chelsea and Liverpool, Guzan hasn't had to make a serious save.
The defence is so so much better than last season. We let in two sloppy goals yesterday and we probably will from time to time, every team does but we do look a lot more organised. Last season will have done some of them young un's some good.
I think okore will be an immense player for us in the future and his injury worried me greatly , but Vlaar, Clark and baker all look better this season - i don't know if the change in full backs has helped them but they certainly look more assured .
I love the way throws himself in to block shots and Vlaar is growing into the captains role nicely , regarding Clark , he seems to have got some confidence back in his game .
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The great feature of the performance for me was the sheer guts of it.An outstanding team,buoyed by a thumping Derby win over last year's champions,were well on top but we didn't throw in the towel,we kept competing and got the rewards.To do this missing several players shows the character of the side.We 've played 4 of the current top 6 and have a goal difference of 1+ in these games .
Lambert has been criticised for having no Plan B,yet he has already put out 3 different team formations.The problems of defensive frailty and the side being a soft touch have been tackled if not fully solved.KEA looks a good signing now as do Bacuna,the unfortunate Okore and Kozak who looks ideal for English football.
Let's not get into Arsenal fan mood where one home defeat creates crisis headlines.
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I feared for our club, but with this bloke in charge I have faith again. We have fecked up (Bradford and more), but really think we are on te right tracks and hopefullyPL will get the trust of Randy. We dont play one tactic, and that is good
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We took on a defensive coach in the summer - an ex-Arsenal player. I think that's the main reason why we look more organised.
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I think today showed how badly we need a creative midfielder. The defence is definitely improving and we look a lot more solid, but we need a creative spark and I think we need to shell out decent money on that player.
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I think today showed how badly we need a creative midfielder. The defence is definitely improving and we look a lot more solid, but we need a creative spark and I think we need to shell out decent money on that player.
Definitely. Norwich was a grind. Today we didn't create anything clear cut. This could be a worrying indication that our away game might not be quite as effective this season. I think generally speaking, teams will be a bit more cautious against us and defend deeper. This leaves us needing a bit of guile we don't appear to have.
Lack of width is also a problem. We can't rely purely on the full backs, because in the second half, Hull were more adventurous (whilst remaining tight) and Luna and Bacuna couldn't bomb forward as much.
Wiemann can't have so many anonymous games. I'd like to put Albrighton in to be honest. He was good against Spurs and if he can get close to his best form he could be useful. Kozak isn't getting any service, and he's certainly not got the ability to take a game by the scruff of the neck like Benteke. And if Kozak is just going to stay on the fringes of a game waiting for service like Darren Bent did, then I'd honestly rather have Bent, because you give him a sniff and he'll score. Kojaks got to start putting himself about a lot more. He did that against City, he's got to keep it up in games like today.
If at this point, Helenius can't get in over Bowery, you have to worry about the big Dane. He's got a good touch and can provide a little of the unexpected. I'd throw him in and see what he's capable of. JB isn't good enough I'm afraid to say. Not as a CF and certainly not playing right wing.
Defence is getting there though. I actually think we look better with Bacuna playing. He's got pace and defensively he's better than Lowton. I like Lowts and actually, maybe there's a place for Lowton in midfield? He reads the game quite well. He's tidy with the ball and he's capable of hitting it from distance.
I take my hat off to Clark too. He'd been all but written off by most of us at the start of the season. Many of us had him down as 4th choice (if that). I think he's been top draw since stepping in. Today he was superb again. Concrete Ron is having a good season too. We've looked more solid in fullback areas defensively of late too because they're getting more help, whilst Bacunas form is making up for how weak we were left on the right due to Lowtons poor form.
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No Gabby and no Benteke sees us struggle to open sides up. Gabby was nowhere near fit today, but in flashes, he opened Hull up.
Most sides would lose some edge without them in fairness, but we need to improve the attacking quality of the midfield.
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I actually think two players who could give us a bit of attacking quality, at least from the bench, are out on loan at the moment...
Bannan and Ireland!!!
No I'm kidding...
Grealish and Carruthers. I mean Helenius and Tonev seem to be struggling to settle. That's obvious. I'd see no harm giving two of our own kids some game time at the moment. Why not? The majority of the rest of our side are kids anyway. Grealish looks a great prospect. Carruthers has unpredictability. Both a good with the ball at their feet. And Johnson. I'd like to see him get some time in CM. He's comfortable on the ball and has an eye for a pass. He's also got a bit of mobility that Westwood and KEA don't really have.
At the moment it actually seems that Grealish and Samir would be better in our matchday squad and Tonev and Helenius would be better out on loan.
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If we want to seriously challenge the top 6 again we certainly do need a creative midfielder.
Still a clean sheet and 10 points is certainly decent enough for the first 7 games.
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If we want to seriously challenge the top 6 again we certainly do need a creative midfielder.
Still a clean sheet and 10 points is certainly decent enough for the first 7 games.
Yep agreed, we badly need that creative player.
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For want of a good creative midfielder, at the moment I'd like to see us play with more width. We've got 6ft 4 Kozak in the middle, so we should be getting crosses in the box.
I'd be tempted to go for a 4-4-1-1. Play Wiemann just off Kozak, which seemed to work against City. Bring in Albrighton on the right handside to whip some balls in.
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We took on a defensive coach in the summer - an ex-Arsenal player. I think that's the main reason why we look more organised.
Oh, that was a bould move. Seriously though, who is it? Perry Groves (or is he doing a Rick Astley tribute act nowadays?)?
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We took on a defensive coach in the summer - an ex-Arsenal player. I think that's the main reason why we look more organised.
Oh, that was a bould move. Seriously though, who is it? Perry Groves (or is he doing a Rick Astley tribute act nowadays?)?
Scott Marshall.
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3220007,00.html
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We do indeed need that creative midfielder, but I do think it's progress to solidly, boringly rack up another point away from home at an in-form side, having never been threatened with defeat and having had much the best of the game. It's not where we want to get to, but it's better than where we were.
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We do indeed need that creative midfielder, but I do think it's progress to solidly, boringly rack up another point away from home at an in-form side, having never been threatened with defeat and having had much the best of the game. It's not where we want to get to, but it's better than where we were.
Absolutely.
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If the stories are true, that we were after Coutinhio, and the Japanese fella, then i think it is fair to say, that this is the next kind of player we will be buying.
Would'nt mind a couple of players to put Gabby and Weimann under competition as well.
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Can I just say how nice it is to have a positive goal difference for a change? It makes a change after the 6-0 thumping at Newcastle and the massacre over xmas which have knackered it in previous seasons.
Not important at this stage but it's good that even though Newcastle won they couldn't go above us and Swansea will have to win by two goals at Southampton to go above us.
Hopefully we don't get thumped again by Spurs to spoil that.
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Agree Soccer HQ. I remember coming out of the dark days of the late 80s with the McGrath / Mountfield / Nielsen (and at wing back Chrissie Price who did indeed have no hair / Kevin Gage?) defence and saying to my dad "our goal difference start with + not -" in a slightly bemused way
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We took on a defensive coach in the summer - an ex-Arsenal player. I think that's the main reason why we look more organised.
Oh, that was a bould move. Seriously though, who is it? Perry Groves (or is he doing a Rick Astley tribute act nowadays?)?
Scott Marshall.
http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~3220007,00.html
I'm a little concerned that Lambert is bringing in more and more of "his" men, seemingly encroaching on coaches like Cowans and McAndrew. My worry is that if Lambert leaves (poached by a big club or sacked) then the infrastructure will leave with him.
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If the stories are true, that we were after Coutinhio, and the Japanese fella, then i think it is fair to say, that this is the next kind of player we will be buying.
Would'nt mind a couple of players to put Gabby and Weimann under competition as well.
Yes I'd hope a Coutinho type player is what we're looking at, because it could have a huge impact on us.
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There's a Prem League progress feature in the DM today
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?action=post;topic=50622.210;last_msg=2439597
For those who can't be arsed, this is their assessment of us -
"
Season so far
The spectre of relegation has finally been banished, after hanging over Villa Park during a turbulent year or two.
Paul Lambert is at last stamping his mark on the team, and they are responding.
Star man
Ashley Westwood – really coming into his own and fulfilling the promise he showed at the famed Crewe academy.
Looks increasingly accomplished and assured at the heart of midfield.
Must improve
Matt Lowton – so much was expected of this adventurous, attacking right back, especially after he signed a new long-term deal in the summer,
but he seems to have lost his way and has been ousted by Leandro Bacuna.
January shopping list
Depends on the budget placed at Lambert’s disposal, but he would like to bolster his squad with another central midfielder and another centre half.
Kid they're raving about
Gary Gardner – he may have turned 21 at the end of June, but he’s still waiting to show why he’s rated as a rising star.
If his latest injury, a niggly back problem, clears up, he may well do just that this season.
"
So Delph is Mr Anonymous and GG, who hasn't played, is the kid we're all raving bout?
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There's a Prem League progress feature in the DM today
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?action=post;topic=50622.210;last_msg=2439597
For those who can't be arsed, this is their assessment of us -
"
Season so far
The spectre of relegation has finally been banished, after hanging over Villa Park during a turbulent year or two.
Paul Lambert is at last stamping his mark on the team, and they are responding.
Star man
Ashley Westwood – really coming into his own and fulfilling the promise he showed at the famed Crewe academy.
Looks increasingly accomplished and assured at the heart of midfield.
Must improve
Matt Lowton – so much was expected of this adventurous, attacking right back, especially after he signed a new long-term deal in the summer,
but he seems to have lost his way and has been ousted by Leandro Bacuna.
January shopping list
Depends on the budget placed at Lambert’s disposal, but he would like to bolster his squad with another central midfielder and another centre half.
Kid they're raving about
Gary Gardner – he may have turned 21 at the end of June, but he’s still waiting to show why he’s rated as a rising star.
If his latest injury, a niggly back problem, clears up, he may well do just that this season.
"
So Delph is Mr Anonymous and GG, who hasn't played, is the kid we're all raving bout?
Bizarre to select Westie out as the "Star Man" in a season which he hasn't really started yet.
GG?
No Delph?
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No doubting, its a shitty write up.
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The Daily Hate....never let the truth get in the way of a story...nuff said
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Would'nt mind a couple of players to put Gabby and Weimann under competition as well.
Helenius?
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11677/8967564/aston-villa-captain-ron-vlaar-backs-jores-okore-to-return-stronger-from-injury
I think this article shows why Vlaar is an excellent captain and is an important part of where we're going as a club.
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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11677/8967564/aston-villa-captain-ron-vlaar-backs-jores-okore-to-return-stronger-from-injury
I think this article shows why Vlaar is an excellent captain and is an important part of where we're going as a club.
he has always come across as a really solid character so he embodies well what it means to be a captain. Much like Stan did. It's so much more than what you do on the pitch and almost as much if not more what you do off it, and how you convey the image of the club to the public and media. Vlaar has been unlucky himself in losing Okore because they were starting to develop a good partnership. It made him that much better as a player also to have such a promising talent next to him. That said, he's done well this season and it has helped that Clark has certainly stepped up his game.