Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Dave on April 13, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
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Available now.
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Probably a fair result. Not perfect, but not a disaster either.
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Decent enough first 60 mins but again thrown points away with a really poor goal - cannot keep doing this!
Substitutions added little and we lost our way in the last 30 mins - 2 points dropped and disappointing in the end.
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Probably a fair result. Not perfect, but not a disaster either.
Agreed.
Sunderland game is huge.
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Good first half, sloppy second.
We missed too many chances to win the game and a draw was probably a fair result. Norwich losing is a bonus.
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Bloody typical, two steps forward, one back
We can now sweat on some crucial games tomorrow, Wigan v Man City midweek and then the games next weekend where we are the team most likely to come away with nothing...
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Probably a fair result. Not perfect, but not a disaster either.
Agree. Thought the subs didn't help us much and its a shame we didn't capitalise in the first half.
Still its not a bad weekend so far - let's see what happens tomorrow.
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Should have won that, I feel, but Arsenal's comeback makes it all a little better. So long as Newcastle bring some bollocks to the derby we'll have breathing space.
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Disappointing, but not the end of the world. We are inching closer to safety though a leap today would have been nice.
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Good first half. Very mediocre second. We really missed Gabby today. For once we looked completely disjointed going forward.
Thank goodness Berbatov lost real interest after 60 minutes.
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
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Incredibly frustrating, could have ended up losing a game that we ought to have comfortably wrapped up early on. We don't half miss some chances don't we? And why did Zog come off?!
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The final ball let us down too much towards the end. Benteke should have squared it to Bent, would have been very different then.
Still, a point isn't a disaster I suppose.
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Few teams deny themselves success like we do. We've almost turned it into an art form, so that's something we're perfecting, at least.
Overall, very disappointing. This is a game we really should have won, but we threw it away. Lapses in concentration, another own goal, poor substitutions, complacency. If we're going to escape the drop, we're going to do it the hard way. Twas ever thus.
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Main annoyance is with Lambert's reactive substitutions and tactical changes. We were rocking a bit before the Fulham equaliser. He always waits til we give away the lead before changing things.
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Did predict 2-2, so a draw was to be expected.
Not sure if this is a disaster or not, so onto the Scottish derby tomorrow, hoping Sunderland lose.
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Not the end of the world. Poor and unnecessary OG to concede though. I don't think we were too bad defensively today. As usual we were not clinical enough at the other end. Lambert made his usual strange substitutions. N'Zogbia, our most dangerous player, off. Holman, who reminded me why I don't rate him, on! Lost all our width which we had been threatening them with. We didn't concede too late though.
Delph was poor and hopefully that show that some of the hype surrounding him was premature. Benteke was poor in front of goal today too.
MOTM? Ermmm....I'll go for N'Zogbia.
On a side note, Dowd didn't do much wrong today. Was pretty fair in giving decisions. Giving Sylla a yellow was the only bad one I can think of. One of his better games.
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Was looking at the in play table when we were winning, we looked all but safe. Such a shame we couldnt hold on
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Missed Gabby and Benteke had a poor game, Berbatov terrified me every time he had the ball.Not the end of the world but it keeps us back with the pack.
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Bloody typical, two steps forward, one back
More of a sideways step.
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Problem is that performance after we scored has put immense pressure on our games against Sunderland and Norwich.
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We should have been winning a game like this. Fulham have all but packed up for their summer hols now. Had they stepped up a gear we might have lost it. They were there for the taking today though.
Again, it just shows that we're close to being a decent side. We're just lacking presence where it counts. I think we missed Gabby today. His pace, and his influence. When Zoggy came off his we had no one suitable to replace him. Sylla and Holman offered no creativity. We missed Zogs flair and though Wiemann wasn't great today he still got into a lot of good positions. Next season though, 3-4 decent signings, with some experience amongst them, and we'll be much better.
Have to say, I don't rate Sylla. So far he has done nothing to look any better than Isaiah Osbourne. Bowery too doesn't look close to Prem quality. He works hard, does what's asked of him but he's not good enough.
More signings along the lines of Tekkers, Westy and Lowton are required. Bennett is improving now too.
We'll be safe but we could have been going into a very winnable Sunderland game, knowing a win could guarantee our survival. Now we'll have to get points from Norwich too. I really don't want this to go to last day.
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Blew it today I thought. Cause wasn't helped by bringing on two hopeless footballers and starting with another one.
Horrible goal to concede but Guzan didn't cover himself in glory either. Should have sent Delph and the ball out towards half way. Created 2 chances to win but couldn't take them. 2 awful efforts from Delph and Benteke.
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Guzan didn't have a save to make. We were the better team throughout and gave them something from absolutely nothing.
I'm not too disheartened. It was another good performance and that shows progress. Just a bit disappointed it wasn't all 3 tonight. Hangeland and Senderos did a very good job on Benteke and killed every ball we put in the box. Fair play.
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The substitutions were wrong, N'Zog and Weimann should have stayed on.
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
And Holman, who you wanted to come on for him IIRC, was brilliant wasn't he? He started today out of necessity because Gabby was injured.
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I thought Bowery was fine today. I'm not too keen on him starting ahead of Zog like last week, but in the absence of Gabby it makes perfect sense.
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Forgot to say, that I though Bennett was pretty decent today again too. Especially in the second half.
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
And Holman, who you wanted to come on for him IIRC, was brilliant wasn't he? He started today out of necessity because Gabby was injured.
I wanted Holman to come on you're right, he did create the chance that Benteke blazed over.
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I don't understand taking N'Zog off when we need to win the game and he's just scored.
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another point on the board and with Dowd. I'm happy with that
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Disappointed but not too downhearted. It's always a let down when we can't hold onto a lead but I expected a draw and we're now three points clear of Sunderland, leaving me cheering for Newcastle tomorrow for once.
That extra two points would have gone a long way towards safety though.
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Delph was poor and hopefully that show that some of the hype surrounding him was premature.
MOTM? Ermmm....I'll go for N'Zogbia.
What? I thought Delph, own goal apart, had a good game. Full of running, tackling, driving forward with the ball. Then I realised you had N'Zogbia down for MOTM, which goes a long way to explain your comment on Delph. ;)
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
And Holman, who you wanted to come on for him IIRC, was brilliant wasn't he? He started today out of necessity because Gabby was injured.
I wanted Holman to come on you're right, he did create the chance that Benteke blazed over.
We look a far worse attacking threat with Holman on the pitch then we do with Bowery on it. We only started looking good offensively since Holman has been dropped. Just not good enough. At least Bowery may become good enough.
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
And Holman, who you wanted to come on for him IIRC, was brilliant wasn't he? He started today out of necessity because Gabby was injured.
I wanted Holman to come on you're right, he did create the chance that Benteke blazed over.
Holman is so technically poor he shouldn't be anywhere near the first team.
Agree with Neo on Joe Bennett, I too thought he had a very decent game today.
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Delph was poor and hopefully that show that some of the hype surrounding him was premature.
MOTM? Ermmm....I'll go for N'Zogbia.
What? I thought Delph, own goal apart, had a good game. Full of running, tackling, driving forward with the ball. Then I realised you had N'Zogbia down for MOTM, which goes a long way to explain your comment on Delph. ;)
I am prone to saying slightly irrational comments just after a game. Yes, you are correct, Delph wasn't that bad really thinking about it now. I'll stick with N'Zog as MOTM though. Almost all of our play came through him. I don't think anybody particularly stood out today though.
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I like Bennett, he's starting to look good.
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Delph was poor and hopefully that show that some of the hype surrounding him was premature.
MOTM? Ermmm....I'll go for N'Zogbia.
What? I thought Delph, own goal apart, had a good game. Full of running, tackling, driving forward with the ball. Then I realised you had N'Zogbia down for MOTM, which goes a long way to explain your comment on Delph. ;)
I am prone to saying slightly irrational comments just after a game. Yes, you are correct, Delph wasn't that bad really thinking about it now. I'll stick with N'Zog as MOTM though. Almost all of our play came through him. I don't think anybody particularly stood out today though.
True, it was a very mediocre performance, especially second half. I'd probably give it to Westwood though Bennett ran him close.
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I'm happy with a point from that. Thought it was a pretty good game.
I know there'll be a few disappointed, but for all our possession and inventiveness, we lacked the clinical finishing you need.
Brilliant defending from baker, he looks quality at the moment. Nzogbia did well too and this annoys me, Delph has got some stick already but I thought he did well.
Inching towards safety
Come on Villa!!!
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
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Delph was poor and hopefully that show that some of the hype surrounding him was premature.
MOTM? Ermmm....I'll go for N'Zogbia.
What? I thought Delph, own goal apart, had a good game. Full of running, tackling, driving forward with the ball. Then I realised you had N'Zogbia down for MOTM, which goes a long way to explain your comment on Delph. ;)
The guy is full of it, Rudy, and I cannnot take anything he posts seriously.
Baker was very good today.
I thought their passing and movement was crisper and Berbatov had all the time in the world.
Bought the Zine from Perce, who was sporting a very cool Harrington.
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Re the substitutions: It's been a long time since N'Zog has played a full game. The coaching staff probably knew that he was getting into the red zone as they call it; where a player starts tiring. If he had, we would have been quickly outnumbered in midfield at a time where we were already being over-run. Weimann always runs his heart out and often has to be taken off because he's knackered nearing the end of the game. Usually Gabby would start and N'Zog would play 20/30 minutes without issue. The fact that the substitutions didn't have an impact highlights the weakness of the squad rather than the first team. I thought Bent was lively though and could still have a part to play.
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Urgh! Frustrating!
We should have won that with the chances we created, such a bloody sloppy goal to give away, especially when we were only playing against one player. I thought we should have had a penalty for an obvious push on Baker.
Still, with Norwich losing and having Stoke next week, not the worst result. We need Man United and Newcastle to win tomorrow.
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Shame we could have won that. But so could they.
Drawing with Fulham at home wouldnt be the end of the world if it wasnt for our league position right now.
Oh well we didnt lose, a point may yet be crucial.
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I like Bennett, he's starting to look good.
Agreed. I thought our defence looked good today, coped with everything but having said that apart from Berbatov, they didn't have much of a threat. The OG wasn't their fault of course and was a bit freaky.
I thought Delph had a good game on the whole. Baker was impressive as well for me.
The substitutions were puzzling. Unless Zog had a knock which I don't think he did, he should never have come off. As for Holman, I just don't see him as being good enough. We had no width so resorted to playing slotted balls that were usually over-hit. Lambert needs to be more pro-active with his substitutions, not wait until we concede.
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If we are going to stay up, looks like we're going to do it the hard way.
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Disappointed Charlie went off, thought Delph played better than people are saying, Benteke struggled, Baker played well, not a disaster though.
Bring on the cockney reds!
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I'd give my right bollock for a clean sheet.
Think its safe for the forseeable.
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I'd give my right bollock for a clean sheet.
Think its safe for the forseeable.
If you gave both right and left bollocks you'd have clean sheets for the rest of your life.
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I quite enjoyed that. Delph was excellent,Charles was excellent and Baker was excellent. Delph had to go for that ball from the corner...just one of those things. But we did miss some scoreable chances. One goal is never enough Im afraid.
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Good shout on Baker, adrenachrome. He had a very accomplished game today and apart from a couple of slide rule passes from Fulham that opened us up, I thought the defence looked the most comfortable they've been possibly all season.
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not happy. 2 points dropped and can't remember guzan making a save.
we had a real chance to give ourselves some breathing space. the reality is we could now go into the sunderland game and a win for them would toss us back into the bottom 3 on goal difference, with 3 to play.
sylla is another very poor footballer to add to the list, wins the ball and then misplaces the pass or plays a heavy ball.
decent performances from westwood, bennett and baker.
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Didn't really catch the game. Pleasantly surprised by the even handed and measured reaction to the game! Normally its like suicide watch on this three unless we win.
I did think a 1-1 or 2-1 was likely. We do need to stop conceding stupid goals
Can't see anything but a defeat at Old Trafford, so hopefully other results will go our way to preserve a cushion going into the Sunderland game. That and the Norwich game are going to be huge. But I said before the last two games at 4 points would do, and I think 4 points from those two would be good enough too.
We play Sunderland on Monday night. So there are plenty of games for other sides to catch up between now an then though:
Wigan will play city, west ham and spurs. I reckon they'll get 2 points from those
Sunderland have Newcastle and Everton. I reckon a juicy nul points, hopefully . .
Stoke have Man U, QPR and Norwich. I think these are make or break for them. They'll be hoping QPR have given up and they can sneak past Norwich
- while Norwich have very in able games v reading and stoke
At least we can truthfully say that along with us, there are another four sides still properly at risk of that last relegation place.
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We really need Sunderland and Stoke to lose tomorrow.
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not happy. 2 points dropped and can't remember guzan making a save.
we had a real chance to give ourselves some breathing space. the reality is we could now go into the sunderland game and a win for them would toss us back into the bottom 3 on goal difference, with 3 to play.
sylla is another very poor footballer to add to the list, wins the ball and then misplaces the pass or plays a heavy ball.
decent performances from westwood, bennett and baker.
I thought Bennett was really frustrating today, defensively and going forward.
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Just a note on baker - looks assured alongside Vlaar and better in that role than Clark- 2 points dropped today and it could be costly - sunderland and Norwich games will both be huge now.
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Disappointed Charlie went off, thought Delph played better than people are saying, Benteke struggled, Baker played well, not a disaster though.
Bring on the cockney reds!
Delph was excellent. Its only one misguided poster who disagrees!
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Have to say, I don't rate Sylla. So far he has done nothing to look any better than Isaiah Osbourne. Bowery too doesn't look close to Prem quality. He works hard, does what's asked of him but he's not good enough.
Really? I think his passing is far superior to anything that lanky streak of piss ever showed. He's stepping up from the 2nd tier of French football and I think he's doing a decent job of it. Still each to his own, eh? Felt sorry for Delph at the front post he'd have been crucified if he hadn't gone up for that ball, as near to the line as it was, that's why he's there. Nothing Guzan could do about that. Shame 3 points today would have given us a real boost. City and Barcodes to win please.
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Didn't see the match, and whilst three points would obviously have been brilliant, I am relatively ok with taking a point here.
We're not going to go down, but we're not going to make it easy for ourselves, I think I've resigned myself to that.
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Have to say, I don't rate Sylla. So far he has done nothing to look any better than Isaiah Osbourne. Bowery too doesn't look close to Prem quality. He works hard, does what's asked of him but he's not good enough.
Really? I think his passing is far superior to anything that lanky streak of piss ever showed. He's stepping up from the 2nd tier of French football and I think he's doing a decent job of it. Still each to his own, eh? Felt sorry for Delph at the front post he'd have been crucified if he hadn't gone up for that ball, as near to the line as it was, that's why he's there. Nothing Guzan could do about that. Shame 3 points today would have given us a real boost. City and Barcodes to win please.
and Man Utd.
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sylla is another very poor footballer to add to the list, wins the ball and then misplaces the pass or plays a heavy ball.
I think Sylla's honeymoon period is well and truely over. Hasn't looked good since his debut.
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Just got back and am absolutely distraught at that result.
Absolute shocking substitutions, as soon as Zog and Wiemann went off, so did our energy and attacking threat.
Holman is so poor, strolling round like he was knackered after being on for all of 5 mins.
Man U next....jeez this is going right down to the bloody wire.
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I thought we defended well, one freak goal aside. Baker motm for me. It can't be easy defending when the midfield leaves you so exposed.
it was a bit like Angel against Spurs a few years back. We concede a goal without an opponent anywhere near the ball.
I wasn't too impressed with NZogbia. It was a good goal and there was one excellent pass inside the full back, but most of our problem in not getting the win we should have was that we have someone playing in the Platini position who refuses to pass the ball.
We're still unbalanced in midfield, and although Weimann and Bowery did ok there's very little added value from their positions.
All of which should be addressed in the summer ;)
We have to get four points from Sunderland/Norwich. We should do and we should be ok.
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Disappointed Charlie went off, thought Delph played better than people are saying, Benteke struggled, Baker played well, not a disaster though.
Bring on the cockney reds!
Delph was excellent. Its only one misguided poster who disagrees!
To be fair, I did retract that statement. His OG and his sitter were still fresh in my mind when I wrote it. Also Delph is one of my scapegoat players who I will sometimes be unduely harsh on (we all have one ;)).
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I ink Weimann works well in that position when you've got creativity from other positions.
I may be wrong, but the performance doesn't sound very different from many a game under MON and even sir Brian. It's just that we used to keep clean sheets in those days.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
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Draw was fair. We weren't sparkling attacking wise today but still create 4-5 good chances, Fulham aren't a mobile team at all but they pass the ball very well in midfield and know how to eek out points in this league which is why they're safe for another season.
Yet again our central midfield couldn't get into the game at all in the second half, Fulham controlled it. And yet again we concede from a corner. The old problems aren't going away despite this recent good run. I thought taking off CNZ was an error, would've taken off Bowery for Sylla and kept N'zogbia in the hole as Fulham didn't like him running at them.
Delph was on course to be MOTM as he covered every blade of grass today but contribution will be remembered for the own goal and poor miss.
Need to beat Sunderland now really, 4 points from Sunderland and Norwich and that will be enough I reckon.
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Fair result overall. Decent first half, disappointing second half. A point isn't the end of the world, 13 points from our last 8 games. I bet everyone would have taken that 8 games ago.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
Risso, you do seem like the most miserable person in the world! Do you not take any satisfaction / do you agree that we're improving as a side?
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Difficult game to judge - and also we should wait til the end of the weekend before we say its a bad result.
That said we did not pass the ball as well as any of our previous games, going back to Reading, yet still created a lot of clear chances. Also Fulham did well at slowing the game down.
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I thought Bennett, Vlaar, Baker, Delph(own goal and miss excepted), Westwood and Lowton all had good games. Our attack just didn't offer enough.
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Disappointed to drop two points as I think a win would have made it very hard for Sunderland and Wigan to catch us, and would have taken us above Norwich. Didn't really surprise me though, while our away from is top 10 our home form is what's got us in the mire and kept us there - too many games that should normally yield at least 50% routine wins - Southampton, Wigan, Newcastle, Norwich, Fulham, Albion, Stoke - have been drawn or lost. At the moment I'd fancy us more to beat Norwich away than Sunderland at home.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
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Didn't see the match, and whilst three points would obviously have been brilliant, I am relatively ok with taking a point here.
We're not going to go down, but we're not going to make it easy for ourselves, I think I've resigned myself to that.
Spot on. I thought we might lose it, so a draw is not too bad and we were the better team by a distance. A couple of neat finishes and we have won the game. Shame.
We missed Gabby badly. He has to come back in for Bowery when he is fit.
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Also despite that result, look at our recent form compared to the teams around us. And we haven't been dealt a severe kick to the balls like Norwich.
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sylla is another very poor footballer to add to the list, wins the ball and then misplaces the pass or plays a heavy ball.
I think Sylla's honeymoon period is well and truely over. Hasn't looked good since his debut.
Really, I thought Sylla strengthened the Midfield and stopped them walking through it as much as they were doing. He did overhit the ball through that one time but most of his passing was spot on. The one criticism I do have is sometimes he will go back instead of the obvious forward pass.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
We played decently well, but were flat. It was kind of an O'Neill home display, and I think strangely we would have been better off going a goal down and coming back. Benteke had an off ish day, and there were chances we pulled and snatched at. A tricky wide man from a good team.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
Exactly. I don't think we were rubbish at all. We've played better, but we've played much, much worse.
I just wish we were a lot more clinical at taking chances.
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I think eight days ago most people would have happily taken four points from Stoke and Fulham.
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We missed Gabby badly. He has to come back in for Bowery when he is fit.
We'd have comfortably beaten Fulham today with Gabby in the side. It's not just his goals, he brings so much to our game, all the things that were missing today.
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And 10 points out of possible 15, I'd have taken that too.
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I think eight days ago most people would have happily taken four points from Stoke and Fulham.
And also our position in the table relative to the other teams.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
Exactly. I don't think we were rubbish at all. We've played better, but we've played much, much worse.
I just wish we were a lot more clinical at taking chances.
its all about the result with Risso, you should know that by now
he's not interested in the performance or bothered about football in general, he wants Allardyce as manager remember
if we lose or draw we are rubbish, if we win they were rubbish, its just the way he is
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
We played decently well, but were flat. It was kind of an O'Neill home display, and I think strangely we would have been better off going a goal down and coming back. Benteke had an off ish day, and there were chances we pulled and snatched at. A tricky wide man from a good team.
Completely agree, Fulham have always been a tough team to break down through the years, today was a game where we need some pace down the wings.
Fine margins though, we had a couple of occasions just after we went 1 up and there's no way Fulham would've come back from 2 down. Just wish N'zogbia would look up once in a while when he's on one of his mazy dribbles.
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I think eight days ago most people would have happily taken four points from Stoke and Fulham.
Indeed, and as I mentioned earlier, 13 points out of the last 8 games. Who wouldn't have taken that 8 games ago?
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It was just a 6/10 performance.
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Poor second half again today. Delph ruined a half decent performance from him with two absolute clangers.
We needed a win today to take a bit of pressure off us. Now the inevitable defeat at Man Utd could dump us back into the shite, but we're a poor team no matter how much we try and convince ourselves otherwise.
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Benteke was double teamed by Senderos and Hangeland. But unlike last week we did not have Weimann and Gabby breaking through. For all of Charles running, apart from the goal he fell into the same trap as normal. Tried doing too much and running into dead ends. Straight after we scored we could have had another with him having the ball and 4 running down on goal but instead of clipping it to the back post, he ran into the defenders.
But if the choice was him or Holman, Charles any day.
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Just got back. Frustrating, but we all know we always ship a daft goal these days. W made it too easy for Fulham's defence today by chucking the ball too near to Senderos and Schwarzer. We took several shots when a pass was on- some less selfish play from the forwards might have seen us two points better off.
I thought Baker did a good job on Berbatov in the first half but we struggled when he dropped back. Sylla kept him quiet and I was quite impressed with him.
Could do with Newcastle and Man United doing us favours tomorrow, and Wigan will hopefully get turned over at Man City in midweek. Today's point will look a bit better if those results go our way.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
Risso, you do seem like the most miserable person in the world! Do you not take any satisfaction / do you agree that we're improving as a side?
Of course, when we play well/get good results like we did last week. The second half especially was poor today though, and the introduction of Holman a bad sign in my occasion. I just think we needed to win today.
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I think this result could come back to bite us on the arse. We were rubbish all over the pitch again today.
I wouldn't say the centre halves were rubbish.
I wouldn't say anyone was rubbish today. At the same time I don't think anyone had a really good game.
We played decently well, but were flat. It was kind of an O'Neill home display, and I think strangely we would have been better off going a goal down and coming back. Benteke had an off ish day, and there were chances we pulled and snatched at. A tricky wide man from a good team.
Completely agree, Fulham have always been a tough team to break down through the years, today was a game where we need some pace down the wings.
Fine margins though, we had a couple of occasions just after we went 1 up and there's no way Fulham would've come back from 2 down. Just wish N'zogbia would look up once in a while when he's on one of his mazy dribbles.
That is why the substitutions were poor - at half time we were saying that we needed more width, yet Lambert actually made us play more narrow (maybe in an attempt to compete in midfield). When we play the diamond all the opposition has to do is put an attacker on Lowton/Bennett and immediately we don't have a decent wide outlet.
Also people calling for Bent to be thrown on - having more strikers doesn't make us attack better. I think Benteke with Weimann off him is our best combination anyway, Bent and Benteke just don't seem to work well together.
Still this post is coming across a bit negative - I don't mind taking a point from the game today.
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I'd have been happy with at draw at Stoke and a win today,we've got the reverse so not too despondent I think we've enough to stay up and seem to respond well in the high pressure games.Overall I think we deserved the win today,we create chances and that's the main thing
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
Paul it was an error not criminal.
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Just got back from the game. Would agree with most of the analysis on here saying that we were just a bit off it today. I thought Lambert's substitutions did not really work today, but we did need to change things as we were getting overrun in central midfield. N'Zogbia created a couple of chances on the left, but when he went off we didn't really have an attacking option on that side and Fulham got out too easily.
Just had a quick look at the table and can't help but thinking we've missed an opportunity today.
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I just think we needed to win today.
Depends what you mean by need.
I think that had we won today then there would have been next to no chance of us going down.
But the fact that we didn't win today doesn't mean that we ARE going to go down. I'd say that it's still pretty unlikely in spite of us only getting a point today.
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A draw is ok. Lets not forget we are the underdogs in these games.
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The substitutions were wrong, N'Zog and Weimann should have stayed on.
Fully agree that those two should have stayed on however Sylla was good when he came on and much better than Bowery. He should start against Manu.
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I just think we needed to win today.
Depends what you mean by need.
I think that had we won today then there would have been next to no chance of us going down.
But the fact that we didn't win today doesn't mean that we ARE going to go down. I'd say that it's still pretty unlikely in spite of us only getting a point today.
Yes I agree. If Subderland get beat tomorrow today is a very good result.
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Well Dave W reckons a win and 3 draws will do it. There's one of the draws.
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The substitutions were wrong, N'Zog and Weimann should have stayed on.
Fully agree that those two should have stayed on however Sylla was good when he came on and much better than Bowery. He should start against Manu.
Agree on Bowery, he just doesn't offer enough at this stage. He might come good, but given the role he's playing we need more.
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Yep. When we worry about other teams games, we need to remember that the teams around us are generally shit and in shit form. If you were a Sunderland or Norwich or stoke fan you'd be thinking 'when on earth are we going to win again'? Even Wigan have some really tough games.
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Its interesting the opinions of people who weren’t at the game, I often think you get a distorted view watching it on streams (if watching at all).
Anyway today was the first time this year I watched them live and I have a ticket for the Sunderland game as well! Still I thought the atmosphere was like a morgue which is hardly surprising when we play with the pace of a snail with absolutely no tempo or urgency. My mate commented that this was good because we keep the ball a lot better... oh, great (watching paint dry sprang to mind)! Quite honestly we are a very average side with two exceptional strikers in Benteke and Weimann, who have virtually kept us afloat this year.
MOM for me was Delph for his tireless work, with and without the ball and that includes the OG and the appalling miss (from where I sat it looked terrible but I shall watch it again and hope it wasn’t that bad)! I could see the logic in bringing Sylla on and trying to store up the midfield which Fulham were getting far too much space in but I would have brought Bowery off. I am not certain what Lambert sees in Bowery to actually start him as he looked totally out of his depth to me. N'Zogbia does not seem to be a happy bunny, as it shows with his body language, he didn’t seem overly pleased to even have scored and I don’t think Lambert is handling him well at all, he is a confidence player and I don’t think we should ever substitute him unless he gets injured. Bennett, now having seem him live for the first time this year, confirms my suspicions of just how bad he is, he really is awful summed up by his pathetic attempt at goal in the second half when playing it wide was the simplest and best option. He may make it in midfield as he can certainly cross a ball but he certainly cannot defend.
Still the position we are in a point is a positive especially as in the second half we could so easily have lost that game with Berbatov hitting the outside of the post when it seemed easier to score and Ruiz missing the goal altogether with just Guzan to beat (although I thought he was offside but it wasn’t given so the goal would have stood).
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
Paul it was an error not criminal.
These things seem to happen when you are at the wrong end of the table, but it was a genuine attempt to clear it by Delph, although perhaps Baker should have shouted louder as he was just behind Delph. Guzan had no chance after it flicked off Delph's head!
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Staying up the hard way.
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Was very concerned at half-time as the couple of chances we had were not converted and that just continued.
Had enough to win by a mile - we are still just short in several departments.
Took a 15 year old for his first game today and it was refreshing to see someone in awe of our ground, it's fans and enjoying the excitement of live football.
The comment about it being a morgue? Not sure what that is about - lively if not rocking - you have to be there.
Can we sign Berbatov please.
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Shoulda won that, to be honest. A lot of chances missed, some horrible passing around the box and a couple of great saves stopped us.
Baker was a fucking colossus, though. He had a great game.
N'Zo & Bowery off took away our width and cost us big time. We were all over them.
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Taken bloody ages to get back. That's the first and last time I try that alternative route.
Thought Fulham came for a draw today - they only really stepped up a gear when we scored. Berbatov is a class act for them - seems to pop up all over the place - Hangeland makes them fairly solid at the back, and their midfield is pretty well drilled. But we had gilt-edged chances to take all 3 points - Benteke had an open goal from 6 yards out, Delph practically hit his late chance over the Holte End roof, and Schwarzer made a couple of great saves. Other than Berbatov hitting the post they didn't really create much and Guzan had a relatively quiet afternoon.
Reading the thread it's weird how people watching the same game come up with different opinions of the same players - Baker deserved MOTM, but, unlike some, I thought Delph was superb today (other than that missed chance), N'Zog had one of his better games and took his goal well, and I also thought Sylla did well. Others failed to impress - Bowery I don't think is good enough and Holman didn't add anything when he came on. And we missed Gabby's pace.
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
It was but shows what happens when you hit a good corner with pace towards the front pace. Can't understand why we don't put Benteke there. Ours are still floated to the back post.
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
It was but shows what happens when you hit a good corner with pace towards the front pace. Can't understand why we don't put Benteke there. Ours are still floated to the back post.
I was thinking similar, we rarely look a threat from corners .
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
It was but shows what happens when you hit a good corner with pace towards the front pace. Can't understand why we don't put Benteke there. Ours are still floated to the back post.
It wasn't Benteke, but in the first half Weimann seemed to be there trying to flick on a couple of times with our corners.
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I thought the draw was a fair result. Fulham had good spells in the game and looked to have a goal in them so without the second a draw was always going to happen.
Been disappointed in AW and CB in the last two games so perhaps Bent can have a part to play. Also, CB was greedy with that chance near the end (side netting one), if he had put it across the face of goal Bent had a tap in. Of course we wanted a win but if results go our way tomorrow then it won't be a bad point. We need at least 4 points from the next three.
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The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, it really was.
It was but shows what happens when you hit a good corner with pace towards the front pace. Can't understand why we don't put Benteke there. Ours are still floated to the back post.
It wasn't Benteke, but in the first half Weimann seemed to be there trying to flick on a couple of times with out corners.
It worked quite well a few times with Weimann doing that.
Quite how we didn't know they'd aim for Hangelaand (sp?) when he went to the near post I don't know.
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Jol: "Last year they were not as good as they are now".
Disappointing that Fulham played similar to last week at Newcastle but the Barcodes managed to nick it at the death (like we did, in fairness, against Fulham last season).
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A draw was always on the cards but we should have won this game with the number of chances we had. We were not as fluid as we can be in spells but we still created 6 very good chances. Fulham deserved nothing from this game. Their one and only chance half a chance at that was Berbatov skimming the outside of the post. Baker was fantastic with some thunder tackles. Delph really very unlucky to get his head to the ball for the og. Benteke was disappointing. Lot of half hearted attempts to get at the ball followed by gesticulation and moaning.
When are we going to sort out tactics for our corners and actually provide a threat to the opposition?
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I think what's really highlighted today is that once Zoggy went off, we really had no other decent options on the bench.
I'd say looking at our midfielders on the bench. KEA, Holman, and Sylla. All nowhere near Premier League standard to be honest. I know it's a little early days on Sylla, but I just don't see what he's got that even Osbourne didn't have.
For me the fitness of GG is key as is the signings we make. We need 2-3 decent signings in midfield and we really could do with someone creative too.
It's also now patently clear that Bent just cannot work in this side anymore. I like Benty but his time here has passed.
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Thinking too much on not letting one in in the last five minutes again caused a lapse of concentration on the part of Mr D in the 66th..
We'll get it right soon to be sure to be sure we will.
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I think what's really highlighted today is that once Zoggy went off, we really had no other decent options on the bench.
Our lack of wide options in the squad is very apparent when we need to change things.
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I think what's really highlighted today is that once Zoggy went off, we really had no other decent options on the bench.
I'd say looking at our midfielders on the bench. KEA, Holman, and Sylla. All nowhere near Premier League standard to be honest.
Makes you wonder why Carruthers can't get a look in. I would've rathered us try our luck with him then throwing on the likes of KEA/Holman.
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I think what's really highlighted today is that once Zoggy went off, we really had no other decent options on the bench.
I'd say looking at our midfielders on the bench. KEA, Holman, and Sylla. All nowhere near Premier League standard to be honest.
Makes you wonder why Carruthers can't get a look in. I would've rathered us try our luck with him then throwing on the likes of KEA/Holman.
I agree, or even Bannan in midfield. I know that neither are exactly bankers for a good performance, but we threatened most when we passed the ball well in the final third and none of the subs helped with that really. I think Carruthers in an attacking role would at least offer something different.
Still even if both were on the bench it wouldn't change the fact that we don't have great options to fall back on.
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Stat time
Despite the own-goal, Fabian Delph was clearly an influence for good in Villa's 1-1 draw with Fulham.
Delph was the star man when it came to statistics correlated in the aftermath of the B6 point.
His figures for passing were particularly impressive, notching up a 94% completion rate.
That amounted to forty-six successful from forty-nine attempted.
Of those completed, twenty-three were forward, thirteen were backward and ten were square.
Nathan Baker was also a standout star, defending superbly throughout against the threat of Dimitar Berbatov and Brian Ruiz.
Baker was No.5 for passes, behind Delph, with forty-five successful from fifty-three made.
Delph was No.1 for tackles too with three successful from six made. Ashley Westwood was joint No.2 with three successful from three made.
Baker was No.1 for interceptions with six. Delph was No.2 with five. B
aker and Ron Vlaar were joint No.2 for blocks with one.
Baker was No.3 for clearances with three successful from seven made. Joe Bennett was No.4 with one successful from four made.
Villa's No.1 pass combination was Bennett to Delph with fourteen. No.4 was Delph to Bennett with twelve.
Charles N'Zogbia was No.1 for shots with four in total, three on target and one goal. Delph was No.2 with three in total and one on target. Brett Holman and Christian Benteke were joint No.4 with three in total.
N'Zogbia was No.1 for take-ons with four successful from four attempted. Lowton was No.3 with two successful from two attempted.
Lowton was No.3 for attacking third passes with twelve successful from eighteen made. N'Zogbia was No.4 with eleven successful from seventeen made.
Benteke was No.2 for chances created with three. Jordan Bowery and Lowton were joint No.4 with two.
Benteke was No.1 for aerial duels with four won from eight in total. Baker was No.3 with three won from nine in total.
Baker and Andi Weimann were joint No.1 for fouls suffered with three.
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Don't think this has been posted yet, Lambert on the game.
Paul Lambert was satisfied with the draw against Fulham, insisting the point could be huge in the battle for survival.
Villa took the lead through Charles N'Zogbia, only to be pulled back via a Fabian Delph own-goal.
Lambert was certainly happy with the way his players approached the game, showing endeavour throughout.
And he saw the draw as a point gained rather than two lost.
He said: "We played really well. I have got nothing but praise for the performance.
"We played really well and got a draw. That point could be massive.
"We're pulling teams right into it. I'm not too disappointed at all with the performance.
"It was not long ago Fulham went to White Hart Lane and turned over Tottenham, a right top side.
"They don't get the credit they deserve. They have got some terrific players.
"But some of the chances we created were excellent. I am sitting here and the point could be huge for us.
"A few games ago there weren't as many teams as now. There is a right cluster there.
"The pleasing thing at the moment is the players are performing. They are getting going.
"If you can get a couple of wins, that will be great.
"We have certainly put a lot of pressure on everybody.
"The thing is we are not going into games thinking 'we're not playing well, we don't know what's going to happen.' We are right in it."
Lambert also had kind words for Delph, who had a positive game despite the own-goal.
He added: "The thing about it is he made honest mistake, he tried to head it away, which we ask him to do.
"His performance was excellent, he has made an honest mistake, you can only ask for honesty. He was unlucky.
"He is playing ever so well. He has had a tough time with injuries but he's on a sustainable run. Him and Westwood are playing very, very well together.
"You have to give him a lot of credit. He has been hampered by bad injuries but now he is playing really, really well. He has great desire for the game of football. You can't curtail that."
Lambert also hailed the power of the Villa Park crowd, who stayed with the team throughout the ninety minutes, creating a cacophony on sound.
He added: "I have nothing but praise for the fans. It's a demanding place but you have to handle it.
"The noise and atmosphere...the crowd are right behind us.
"The team are bouncing off them. That's a powerful thing. That's what happening at the minute."
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I was relieved not to lose. Now I'm pissed off.
Never pleased, me. Moan moan moan
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It's a measure of the teams development that we got the draw, we'd have lost this before Xmas.
The failure to shore up the defence in January with a quality centre half still threatens to ruin the season but I'm confident we'll be fine before the Chelsea game.
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We should have won. We shot ourselves in the foot, not for the first time.
Baker's MOM was deserved. Sylla looked quality when he came on. I'd love to see Berbatov in a Villa shirt.
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We have failed to put away too many scoreable chances (even when winning) this season .However at least we are creating chances.
Both Stoke and Fulham doubled up on Benteke and made a good job of it. He cant be top notch every game not even Messi can do that.
Well actually he can!
I have a feeling we might take a much needed point out of Man Utd if everybody plays to their maximum ability.
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has there been any news on Gabby's thigh injury?
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We should have won. Even if we didn't, that's a good sign. The performances are looking much better in recent weeks. This is looking more and more like the Houllier season: a new manager comes in with a new approach, and we play mostly shit with occasional flashes of promise, courting disaster, until towards the end of the season we start looking more effective as the new philosophy starts to sink in.
If we stay up, I'm really optimistic for the future. The very early foundations of the Dortmund model are still taking shape, albeit tentatively.
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Guzan 6 - well he didnt have a save to make! Over 70% in his passing accuracy which is better than last week and dealt with back passes and kicked well enough.
Lowton 7 Moves forward well got excited by crowds urge to shoot off at the goal. Also had several forays into the off ball running into box. Nearly caught out a few times by excellent berba but on whole worked hard and decent
Ron Vlaar 6 Just Okay made good clerance headers and 1 important block from berabtov. want to see him as more attacking threat at offensive set pieces. Good passing accuracy today.
Nathan Baker 8 Wins his headers some great interceptions and some audacious tackling was right to keep place ahead of Clark. Seemed a focal point for the numerous offensive set pieces. Lovely stuff. well done nat!
Joe Bennett 6 Wasnt up against high quality opposition and he can still be out of place. The most often and dangerous attacks came down fulhams right. Struggles with positioning and too many touches on to ball rather than release at key moments. Most touches of any Villa player 71 !! Seen worse games from him thing he did well overall
Fab Delph 7.5 Determined effort again from the fabster. Moved forward well had a few shots And was extremely unfortunate with his honest mistake for the og. Somewhat was wild in finish with the major chance at 1-1 really he wanted to make ammends.
However Delphs commitment to the cause cant be faulted. And had an intelligent game. Good passing ability with the 2nd most touches 70 he was 94% accuarte with his passing today. Theres been discussion on Delph added goals to his game and cutting out the fouls/bookings .. wekll today he had 3 shots with 1 on target (not counting the og)
Ashley Westwood 6 Not as effective as midfield partner Delph. His passing was only @ 80% and noticed misplaced and over hit passes. Offensively Westwood had a weak shot (looked more like a pass) blocked. Goals from Villas central midfield is not a strong point
Jordan Bowery 6 Did well enough and was clearly helped by being given another game from his efforts last week. Did a few nice runs and dribbles though lacking effectiveness as a goal threat and being involved in play. only 30 touches. Start of 2nd half was unlukcy not to score. His balance isnt great though did show strength and some pace which are nice qualities. Progress.
Charles N'zogbia 7 A mixture he got the goal and linked at times well when moving ball quickly. Too many times wrong decisons in passing and moving the ball. Main goal threat and always looked most likely to score. 3 out of 4 shots on target. He is frustrating though lacks awareness for a player of his experience and struggles with a total team ethic. Right to be sub off.
Andi Weimann 6.5 Always shows effort just didnt work for Andi today initiallly struggled postional play but came into game at parts and had 1 ok effort. I think he could have stayed longer on pitch as is capable of scoring or creating due to nuisance value, heart and undoubtedly goals scoring ability.
Christian Benteke 6 Not today Christian Largely ineffective second week running against strong defenders. Is always a handful but had little ariel joy today and first few touches he was passing to Fulham players. Undoubted technique on ball show again and a nice dribbles and also one touch passing but on whole disappointing. Missed chances nothing on target and of course continues to be offside far too many times. 3 today. Players at times need to release quicker. Benteke has been played offside the most times in the premier league in his strike role.
Overall it was disappointing not to win. Especially as we were the team with the more shots There was also the great momentum which if capitalized upon ,by scoring again would have had 3pts!
:D We go again
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Baker was a fucking colossus, though. He had a great game.
In the long term Baker and Donacien are going to be our centre backs. Baker with size, power and guts and Donacien full of guile and intelligence.
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I think frustrating is the word to describe that today.
There was a point in starting Bowery last week, there was'nt today. He did'nt make an impact on the game at all and for the second week running he should have been taken off earlier than he was, in today's case just after we scored. You could tell Fulham were getting a grip of the midfield, so much so that Lambert threw on 2 midfielders instead of the extra one that was needed.
Let's just hope that the results go for us tomorrow. A point should'nt be the end of the world but it might end up costing us.
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Oh I forgot to say - we pick ourselves up and we go again.
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Just saw MOTD. We should have buried them.
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Problem is that performance after we scored has put immense pressure on our games against Sunderland and Norwich.
exactly , if won today the pressure would be right on Sunderland and we could have played with a lot less and probably get a result , now we are going to be damn nervous.
I thought Charlie was involved in everything good today , our best player and looked dangerous when he had the ball .. Why , why , why take him off .
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I like Bennett, he's starting to look good.
Agreed. I thought our defence looked good today, coped with everything but having said that apart from Berbatov, they didn't have much of a threat. The OG wasn't their fault of course and was a bit freaky.
I thought Delph had a good game on the whole. Baker was impressive as well for me.
The substitutions were puzzling. Unless Zog had a knock which I don't think he did, he should never have come off. As for Holman, I just don't see him as being good enough. We had no width so resorted to playing slotted balls that were usually over-hit. Lambert needs to be more pro-active with his substitutions, not wait until we concede.
The OG was gutting , but to me it looked like a rare lack of communication between the keeper and his defence, rather than Delph's fault per se. Guzan looked to be coming to claim it and if Delph knew that I'm sure he would have left it.
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We should have won, we could have lost, but we managed a point. We go again.
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I like Bennett, he's starting to look good.
Agreed. I thought our defence looked good today, coped with everything but having said that apart from Berbatov, they didn't have much of a threat. The OG wasn't their fault of course and was a bit freaky.
I thought Delph had a good game on the whole. Baker was impressive as well for me.
The substitutions were puzzling. Unless Zog had a knock which I don't think he did, he should never have come off. As for Holman, I just don't see him as being good enough. We had no width so resorted to playing slotted balls that were usually over-hit. Lambert needs to be more pro-active with his substitutions, not wait until we concede.
The OG was gutting , but to me it looked like a rare lack of communication between the keeper and his defence, rather than Delph's fault per se. Guzan looked to be coming to claim it and if Delph knew that I'm sure he would have left it.
I was wondering that. A shout by Guzan ' leave it ' and its a simple catch.
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I thought Bennett looked quite shaky in the first half but he was much better in the second.
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Poor goal to concede but lets be positive, some of the football was again good. I am putting a fiver on clean sheet v Man Ure lol.
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Nice to see Wolfie wandering past before the game. And possibly my most bizarre fanzine sale to date, bloke in a Villa scarf and Villa shirt buys a copy and then tells me he is a Leicester City fan supporting Villa for the day. I can understand going to a game as a neutral, but wearing a shirt and scarf of another team?
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The football we're playing is nice. Reminds me of what Swansea are doing, to be honest. We play it short and move it around. It's going to take time until our team are completely natural with it, but Lambo is getting us playing the right way.
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Berbatov clearly showed what we are missing, he was massive for them and directed their play all day. I would like to see delph played just behind the forward as he seems the only midfielder with the skill to beat apponents and who runs all day. Just didn't see the point in bringing Bent on he and Benteke do not compliment each other maybe if we played genuine wingers there would be better outcomes but he looks lost as it is.
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Should have had all three points by the look of the game on football first. Berbatov should be playing football for one of the top clubs in Europe. Really like Martin Jol for his football ideology but also his outright honesty as he strikes me now as he did when he was at spurs as a down to earth likeable chap.
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Disappointed. Devastated because of our current position and what a win would have made to the league table, to us as fans, and the players as a growing team.
But to look at the game today, we are disappointed to only draw against a mid-table team. Until the equaliser we were well on top. We've seen that an awful lot this season and to be fair in those other games once the equaliser went in, we didn't create the chances that we did today. That's why we are in where were we are.
I like Baker. I think he could develop into a top-class defender. He's very rash and is rpone to diving in yes, but if Dunne and have been fit he and Vlaar would have been first choice centre-halves. Baker would have got the few games when he was needed when Vlaar or Dunne were out. But he's had a full season and other than those mistakes which have been more exposed than would have had Dunne been fit, I think Baker has looked a good centre half. the rest he'll learn with experience. That will make him a very good player. What wouldn't make him an International though is his distribution. Its unforgivably poor.
Their goal was just that type of goal you concede when you're used to things going against you. Delph was unlucky that his header went where it did and Westwood (I think) couldn't get a decent clearance away.We then lost our way and I think that you substitutions were understandable. Lambert looked to protect the point whilst still giving us just enough to nick all 3. Its a judgement call. Yes, Fulham could scored,and far too easily so, but so could have we.
So the bright positives are still there. We've still got a lot to do but we've shown enough to suggest we can go into our 'winnable' games expecting to win.
The downside is, well this what we've seen to often this season. Our inability to keep a clean sheet, or if we do, compromise our attacking threat. But other than the defence we don't play like a relegated team. To be fair neither do the defence, but they're already playing like they're a division or two below the required standard.
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I liked Jol's postmatch summary. He was very complimentary about us.
When asked about our chances of survival he said, "I don't know. if you see their philosophy ( players we bring in) you hope they're safe".
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Lambert got the substitutions badly wrong yesterday yet again. I agree with the Osbourne comparison for Sylla. I dont think he adds anything, just runs around like a headless chicken. He isnt an attacking midfielder or defensive and seems to have no positional sense at all. He had a dreadful cameo against Stoke and it beggared belief how he was first man on yesterday. Taking off Nzogbia who had scored about 10 mins earlier and was getting into good positions and forcing saves was ridiculous from Lambert.
Holman wasnt as bad as Sylla but has little quality either. As at Stoke last time out, Benteke should have been the one to make way when Bent came on. They dont go well together and Benteke just wasnt getting any joy for the second week in a row. With Sylla and Holman on, our width disappeared. First substitution as at Stoke should have been Bowery coming off, taking off our best attacking player Nzogbia was a terrible decision and totally unnecessary. Then it should have been Benteke making way for Bent with a front three of Nzogbia, Bent and Weimann left to try and get the winner.
Disappointing as Fulham were there for the taking big time yesterday. Missing a load of players but they improved in the second half and deserved a goal I thought considering the Berbatov and Petric chances they missed.
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I like Baker. I think he could develop into a top-class defender.What wouldn't make him an International though is his distribution. Its unforgivably poor.
But other than the defence we don't play like a relegated team. To be fair neither do the defence, but they're already playing like they're a division or two below the required standard.
Sorry to pick your post to pieces, as I agree with most of what you say but surely you're being contradictory above -
can Baker be top class (i.e an international) or not? And do the defence play like a League 1 side or not?!
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Guzan 6 - well he didnt have a save to make! Over 70% in his passing accuracy which is better than last week and dealt with back passes and kicked well enough.
Lowton 7 Moves forward well got excited by crowds urge to shoot off at the goal. Also had several forays into the off ball running into box. Nearly caught out a few times by excellent berba but on whole worked hard and decent
Ron Vlaar 6 Just Okay made good clerance headers and 1 important block from berabtov. want to see him as more attacking threat at offensive set pieces. Good passing accuracy today.
Nathan Baker 8 Wins his headers some great interceptions and some audacious tackling was right to keep place ahead of Clark. Seemed a focal point for the numerous offensive set pieces. Lovely stuff. well done nat!
Joe Bennett 6 Wasnt up against high quality opposition and he can still be out of place. The most often and dangerous attacks came down fulhams right. Struggles with positioning and too many touches on to ball rather than release at key moments. Most touches of any Villa player 71 !! Seen worse games from him thing he did well overall
Fab Delph 7.5 Determined effort again from the fabster. Moved forward well had a few shots And was extremely unfortunate with his honest mistake for the og. Somewhat was wild in finish with the major chance at 1-1 really he wanted to make ammends.
However Delphs commitment to the cause cant be faulted. And had an intelligent game. Good passing ability with the 2nd most touches 70 he was 94% accuarte with his passing today. Theres been discussion on Delph added goals to his game and cutting out the fouls/bookings .. wekll today he had 3 shots with 1 on target (not counting the og)
Ashley Westwood 6 Not as effective as midfield partner Delph. His passing was only @ 80% and noticed misplaced and over hit passes. Offensively Westwood had a weak shot (looked more like a pass) blocked. Goals from Villas central midfield is not a strong point
Jordan Bowery 6 Did well enough and was clearly helped by being given another game from his efforts last week. Did a few nice runs and dribbles though lacking effectiveness as a goal threat and being involved in play. only 30 touches. Start of 2nd half was unlukcy not to score. His balance isnt great though did show strength and some pace which are nice qualities. Progress.
Charles N'zogbia 7 A mixture he got the goal and linked at times well when moving ball quickly. Too many times wrong decisons in passing and moving the ball. Main goal threat and always looked most likely to score. 3 out of 4 shots on target. He is frustrating though lacks awareness for a player of his experience and struggles with a total team ethic. Right to be sub off.
Andi Weimann 6.5 Always shows effort just didnt work for Andi today initiallly struggled postional play but came into game at parts and had 1 ok effort. I think he could have stayed longer on pitch as is capable of scoring or creating due to nuisance value, heart and undoubtedly goals scoring ability.
Christian Benteke 6 Not today Christian Largely ineffective second week running against strong defenders. Is always a handful but had little ariel joy today and first few touches he was passing to Fulham players. Undoubted technique on ball show again and a nice dribbles and also one touch passing but on whole disappointing. Missed chances nothing on target and of course continues to be offside far too many times. 3 today. Players at times need to release quicker. Benteke has been played offside the most times in the premier league in his strike role.
Overall it was disappointing not to win. Especially as we were the team with the more shots There was also the great momentum which if capitalized upon ,by scoring again would have had 3pts!
:D We go again
Sorry for the quotathon but great post. I like your style, kid. Keep up the ratings.
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I liked Jol's postmatch summary. He was very complimentary about us.
When asked about our chances of survival he said, "I don't know. if you see their philosophy ( players we bring in) you hope they're safe".
He is a hard man to dislike. Hell I cant even dislike Fulham. Nice ground, polite fans.
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I watched the extended highlights on football first. I'm disappointed we didn't win and it could well cost us. By I also was impressed with a number of elements to our play. It's so nice to see a villa side pass their way out of difficult situations, keep composed and keep the ball on the deck. So different from the MON years.
I thought most players did well. The main exception was Benteke who had a poor game. I know it sounds like heresy but I wonder if it'd be worth taking him out for the Man U game and bringing him back in refreshed for the Sunderland game. I wondered whether he was one of the unnamed players carrying a knock. The other was presumably gabby.
Still making worrying lapses and looking a bit disorganised at the back on occasion. Not just eh mistake for the goal, but Berbatov's shot against the post which resulted from Ruiz running through our midfield.
It would clearly be a disaster if we go down. I don't think we will. But I think it may well be tight. Ad even if we do, I would keep lambert. We're building something good. He's made mistakes. And it wouldn't be a case of ignoring those. It would be a case of wanting to avoid further upheaval and continuing to build.
Lets hope it doesn't come to that
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Interesting quote from Martin Jol on Villa.
"Tomorrow is theirs, they've just got to sort out today".
Sums it all up.
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We are improving game by the game, and we dominated the match, but our defensive organization on set pieces is so crap that we have succeeded in conceding a goal even when our opponents never shot in the goal.
It's a pity because Beker and Lowton played very well, ad even Delph was positive for 89 minutes then he had two lapse of concentration, and he played for Fulham when he made the own goal and when he missed an easy goal. He is much better than he was until 3 months ago, though.
We should hav won easily this game, let's hope that we won't regret these points.
And I have always been a fan of Lambert, but once again he killed us with the substitutions.
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As others have said, we should have won. We were 2-3 goals better in the first half.
I felt very sorry for Delph: I thought his overall game was excellent. On his goal-chance, he let the blood-rush overwhelm him; as happened to Weimann a couple of times too.
I was surprised that Senderos and Haangeland dealt so well with Benteke: I expected the former to get mullered by our man but the two Fulham CB did really well.
Here's hoping Stoke and Blunderland take a pasting today.
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This was just typical Villa, after the euphoria of beating Stoke I went expecting us to take Fulham apart but was not to be. They should have needed snookers by half time and same old story if you don't put chances away inevitably Fulham would equalise and means we're not out the woods yet.
From my perspective there were some decent performances - I'll forgive the og from Delph he played well and has done for a few weeks now. Nathan Baker is another one who has stepped up and some of his tackles yesterday were Tealesque. Notice a couple of negative comments about Sylla, I thought he did well and definitely shows potential. Big disappointment and given what he's done this season I'll let him off but Benteke had an off day, he made some bad decisions and gave the ball away quite a few times but I'm glad we've got him and not Berbatov. What a tit that guy is, moaning at his team constantly and it was because he was arguing with someone that they didn't pick N'Zogbia up for our goal - Cheers Berba!
Off the pitch I thought our support was decent but what was going on with the Fulham fans? they brought a right venomous mob, saw a number of them being escorted out, their reaction after the equaliser was akin to a West Brom or Blues crowd thought they were going to invade the North Stand at one point. Not what I'd expect from Fulham they're usually a pleasant bunch when we go to Craven Cottage.
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Why did he bring Charlie off? Seems a bizarre substitution.
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We really needed to win that. Could live to regret it. It was one of the games I (& probably PL) expected to get 3 points from.
Pressure is back on. Sunderland game is HUGE.
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I know it sounds like heresy but I wonder if it'd be worth taking him out for the Man U game and bringing him back in refreshed for the Sunderland game. I wondered whether he was one of the unnamed players carrying a knock. The other was presumably gabby.
The guys sat near me suggested this. It looked like he was carry a bit of a knock as he wasn't particularly mobile.
Rest him for the Man U game and hope he's fresh and back to his destructive self for the rest of the season.
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This was just typical Villa, after the euphoria of beating Stoke I went expecting us to take Fulham apart but was not to be. They should have needed snookers by half time and same old story if you don't put chances away inevitably Fulham would equalise and means we're not out the woods yet.
From my perspective there were some decent performances - I'll forgive the og from Delph he played well and has done for a few weeks now. Nathan Baker is another one who has stepped up and some of his tackles yesterday were Tealesque. Notice a couple of negative comments about Sylla, I thought he did well and definitely shows potential. Big disappointment and given what he's done this season I'll let him off but Benteke had an off day, he made some bad decisions and gave the ball away quite a few times but I'm glad we've got him and not Berbatov. What a tit that guy is, moaning at his team constantly and it was because he was arguing with someone that they didn't pick N'Zogbia up for our goal - Cheers Berba!
Off the pitch I thought our support was decent but what was going on with the Fulham fans? they brought a right venomous mob, saw a number of them being escorted out, their reaction after the equaliser was akin to a West Brom or Blues crowd thought they were going to invade the North Stand at one point. Not what I'd expect from Fulham they're usually a pleasant bunch when we go to Craven Cottage.
Small Heath and Sandwell didn't have a game.........
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Massive 2 points dropped this. I think this will come back to haunt us as this was by far the easiest of our 6 remaining games.
Strange day from Lambert too. Bowery a PL player ? Really ?
Strange subs ? There is no point taking off Weimann & Zog and playing Benteke and Bent up top as all creativity is gone ?
Really disappointed after the stoke heroics
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I know it sounds like heresy but I wonder if it'd be worth taking him out for the Man U game and bringing him back in refreshed for the Sunderland game. I wondered whether he was one of the unnamed players carrying a knock. The other was presumably gabby.
The guys sat near me suggested this. It looked like he was carry a bit of a knock as he wasn't particularly mobile.
Rest him for the Man U game and hope he's fresh and back to his destructive self for the rest of the season.
He has also picked up a few bookings. I don't think Paul's going to do it but leaving him out against Manu may be a good idea. Bent comes in and gets a full game to see if he has any thing in his closet for us.
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As an aside, it's impressive how Berbatov can create so much space without actually moving, be can be frustrating to watch at times but he really is a clever player.
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Why did he bring Charlie off? Seems a bizarre substitution.
I couldn't understand N'Zogbia and Weimann being off and Holman on. They were our main threat. A braver substitution would have seen Benteke pulled off.
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As an aside, it's impressive how Berbatov can create so much space without actually moving, be can be frustrating to watch at times but he really is a clever player.
But not very effective.
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Mission accomplished for Fulham, they came for a draw and we weren't good enough to deny them that, too many decent positions were wasted with poor shooting but a lot of positives can be taken from the game. Baker was immense and Delph, OG and sitter aside, wasn't far behind. CNZ looked a constant threat.
One thing I did note was that in the system we play, Benteke must be told to be on the shoulder of the last defender, too many times the wide men were in good positions to get a ball in and he was wanting it into feet leaving no-one to cross to, we didn't get the Fulham CHs facing their own goal enough.
This was one of the winnable games we'd have surely targetted so its disappointing not to get the three points.
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As an aside, it's impressive how Berbatov can create so much space without actually moving, be can be frustrating to watch at times but he really is a clever player.
He was a joy to watch. He pretty much plays for himself but when he does decide to engage in the game he is fantastic.
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As an aside, it's impressive how Berbatov can create so much space without actually moving, be can be frustrating to watch at times but he really is a clever player.
Berbatov is a class act. He is one of the few players in the modern game who doesnt panic in any situation.Ice cool brain.
Has Lambert given a reason why N'Zogbia was substituted? . It doesnt make any sense unless he had picked up an injury . You dont take off your most dangerous player who had hit his top form in this match.
I forgot to say earlier in this thread I thought Bennett played very well.
Anybody remember Simon Dawkins he seems to have dissappeared under the radar.
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Re the substitutions I thought Lambert had it spot on and all of the subs added something, I really cant understand anyone who doesn't see something in Sylla. He's athletic, powerful and doesnt give the ball away, when he gets a few games under his belt I see him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Holman added energy and Bent also looked sharp. Both Weimann and CNZ had run out of steam.
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There was a chap behind me who whinged about Bennett for the entire game. He said 'Of all my time down Villa, i've never seen a player like Joe Bennett' about three or four times in one of those irritating matter of factly voices which he thought everyone else needed to hear. He was such a pompous cock arse.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
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What summed up Zog yesterday was just after he scored his goal, he picked up the ball and went on a good run but instead of laying the ball off and putting it into the box, he tried to do it all himself which he does far too often. The motd hightlights made him look better than he actually was.
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Not sure about N'Zogbia, he has talent, but he isn't much of a team player.
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Re the substitutions I thought Lambert had it spot on and all of the subs added something, I really cant understand anyone who doesn't see something in Sylla. He's athletic, powerful and doesnt give the ball away, when he gets a few games under his belt I see him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Holman added energy and Bent also looked sharp. Both Weimann and CNZ had run out of steam.
Pretty much how I saw it too
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Off the pitch I thought our support was decent but what was going on with the Fulham fans? they brought a right venomous mob, saw a number of them being escorted out, their reaction after the equaliser was akin to a West Brom or Blues crowd thought they were going to invade the North Stand at one point. Not what I'd expect from Fulham they're usually a pleasant bunch when we go to Craven Cottage.
From where I was sat (admittedly at the other end of the ground) it looked like a couple of over excited fans getting a bit lairy towards our fans when celebrating their goal, rather than being about to invade the North Stand.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
I agree he takes the wrong option too often. But he was involved in most of our best chances yday I thought
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Disappointed but this could of been worse. I closely watched Berbatov and realised what a class player he is. I think Benteke should look at Berbatov and model his game on how he plays and makes time stand still when he has the ball. Baker was excellent today and is getting better and better. Not totally convinced by Bennet but he done well and is growing as a player. As many have said i cannot see why PL took Nzogbia off. Holman is very average and creates very little. Felt sorry for Delph he had a good game and works very hard for the team. We will survive. Come on Villa .......
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I like Baker. I think he could develop into a top-class defender.What wouldn't make him an International though is his distribution. Its unforgivably poor.
But other than the defence we don't play like a relegated team. To be fair neither do the defence, but they're already playing like they're a division or two below the required standard.
Sorry to pick your post to pieces, as I agree with most of what you say but surely you're being contradictory above -
can Baker be top class (i.e an international) or not? And do the defence play like a League 1 side or not?!
Top-class in as much as being a good Premiership player. But not good enough tomake it on the International stage. He may get call-ups into the squad but his distribution means that he will never be as good as his defending ability suggest he could become.
The defence as a unit keep conceding. That is not good at all. Bad defences get sides relegated. In 86-87 spink and Evans individually did well. But as a unit the defence didn't work well. There were other contributing factors to that relegation but that's another thread.
As good as individual players are, or may become, conceding as often as we do suggests that they aren't good enough to play at this level right now as a unit.
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I know he was'nt on the bench yesterday but Bannan would have been an ideal player to bring on. He might have opened the game up a bit and added something different. I thought the Holman sub was a bit weird.
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Berbatov was a class act. Linked everything that Fulham did and did it at walking pace.
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We'd have happily taken 4 points from Stoke and Fulham before those games. It's just a bit flat to do it this way round.
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I couldn't really work out what happened on the goal we conceded as I was right behind the goal but after watching it a few times on goals on Sunday I kind of agree with Chis Kamara.
It was unfortunate as it happened pretty quick but Guzan was slightly out of position. As Delph head's it, Guzan comes to get it but then it fly's past him.
Perhaps Guzan calls for it but as it happens quickly Delph cant really not try and head it so Guzan ends up out of posistion. I cant really lay any blame at Guzan as he has been outstanding and the other argument is that Delph is sightly too far forward.
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There was a chap behind me who whinged about Bennett for the entire game. He said 'Of all my time down Villa, i've never seen a player like Joe Bennett' about three or four times in one of those irritating matter of factly voices which he thought everyone else needed to hear. He was such a pompous cock arse.
He's got a point though!
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There was a chap behind me who whinged about Bennett for the entire game. He said 'Of all my time down Villa, i've never seen a player like Joe Bennett' about three or four times in one of those irritating matter of factly voices which he thought everyone else needed to hear. He was such a pompous cock arse.
He's got a point though!
Well I don't think he has and I hate fans that single out a player to winge at even when they have a decent game, which I thought Bennett did!
Okay Bennett has been prone to errors but I think he is improving and will be a decent player.
Once again before people jump in moaning its a unit made up of players who have never played before and have never played in the premiership. Even the best defenders in the world would have difficulty with that setup.
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There was a chap behind me who whinged about Bennett for the entire game. He said 'Of all my time down Villa, i've never seen a player like Joe Bennett' about three or four times in one of those irritating matter of factly voices which he thought everyone else needed to hear. He was such a pompous cock arse.
Lad by me was straight on his back the first time he misplaced one. I pointed out that Benteke had already given the ball back to fulham three times, to which he replied, "well, yeah, but you've gotta pick on someone."
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
Totally agree. Poor substitutions as was the case at Stoke. We got away with that after a very nervy period. It is ridiculous that we should be waiting for the whistle to secure one point instead of losing. It's a pity the whole team haven't got the work rate of Baker.
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A massive two points dropped - but in the end we just held out when Fulham pressed for a winner. In order to survive the drop we need clean sheets - hasn`t happened much this season so I cant see it happening now, especially with the likes of Manure and Chelski coming up.
I felt for Delph yesterday as he put a good shift in as did Westwood. The two full backs are dire defenders and are constantly picked out by the opposition as weak links. I agree with others that we missed Gabby`s pace up front yesterday. Benteke was poor for me .. dare I say he looked a bit "half arsed" at times. Possibly for the first time Brad didn`t call when the corner came in ....plus there was a defender on the front stick so I cant see why Delph was there in the first place.
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Berbatov was a class act. Linked everything that Fulham did and did it at walking pace.
He was almost effortless while playing the ball about. Just a good job he hadn't got his shooting boots on. That was the only flaw in his game.
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Re the substitutions I thought Lambert had it spot on and all of the subs added something, I really cant understand anyone who doesn't see something in Sylla. He's athletic, powerful and doesnt give the ball away, when he gets a few games under his belt I see him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Holman added energy and Bent also looked sharp. Both Weimann and CNZ had run out of steam.
Pretty much how I saw it too
Likewise
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Re the substitutions I thought Lambert had it spot on and all of the subs added something, I really cant understand anyone who doesn't see something in Sylla. He's athletic, powerful and doesnt give the ball away, when he gets a few games under his belt I see him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Holman added energy and Bent also looked sharp. Both Weimann and CNZ had run out of steam.
Pretty much how I saw it too
Likewise
Holman adds energy but very little ability.
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This was one of the winnable games we'd have surely targetted so its disappointing not to get the three points.
Looking back on yesterday I do wonder whether the win at Stoke made the players a little too confident and comfortable. There wasn't the urgency we've seen in recent games, the crowd too seemed to be very quiet, expecting a comfortable home win, all in all a very disappointing day and result. Now with Sunderland thrashing Newcastle, we really are back in the brown stuff and the home game with Sunderland is our D Day. For the first time this season I'm concerned.
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Man utd aren't playing too well. But we could be 2-0 up with ten to go up there and still lose.
I think there's a good chance we'll be back in the bottom 3 by the time we play Sunderland. Wigan have three games between now and then.
Urgh. Could do with Sunderland coming back down to earth against
Everton. I really did not expect that result today, at all.
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I wouldn't have said the crowd were expecting an easy win, it just seemed very nervous and Fulham's game plan was sound, get men behind the ball and make us do something unpredictable. The noise when we went ahead was incredible and at the end there was no dissent, I do think there is a feeling of togetherness about the team and the crowd that Stoke and Wigan don't have.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
I agree he takes the wrong option too often. But he was involved in most of our best chances yday I thought
N'Zogbia put in as much effort into helping the team as he's ever done yesterday. Don't think you could question his commitment yesterday.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
I agree he takes the wrong option too often. But he was involved in most of our best chances yday I thought
N'Zogbia put in as much effort into helping the team as he's ever done yesterday. Don't think you could question his commitment yesterday.
I have not questioned his commitment. I question his football brain and decision making. I don't think Lambert questions his commitment either, but I'm sure he will not want to keep him next season. You are right that he had his most influential game yesterday but 6/10 is as goog as it gets IMO.
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There was a chap behind me who whinged about Bennett for the entire game. He said 'Of all my time down Villa, i've never seen a player like Joe Bennett' about three or four times in one of those irritating matter of factly voices which he thought everyone else needed to hear. He was such a pompous cock arse.
Lad by me was straight on his back the first time he misplaced one. I pointed out that Benteke had already given the ball back to fulham three times, to which he replied, "well, yeah, but you've gotta pick on someone."
Dear grief. I wonder how on earth people like this think they are helping the Villa cause?
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Piss poor after we scored and Weimann and N'Zog shouldn't have been taken off. The goal we conceded was absolutely criminal, and I don't think Bowery should be starting for us at all. That's nothing against him, he's just not good enough currently.
Totally agree. Poor substitutions as was the case at Stoke. We got away with that after a very nervy period. It is ridiculous that we should be waiting for the whistle to secure one point instead of losing. It's a pity the whole team haven't got the work rate of Baker.
I disagree. I thought Sylla looked good when he came on and I was hoping Villa could still go on and win it at the end - and Benteke nearly did with that last chance.
As for N'Zog the word round by where I was sitting was that he took a knock.
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I just wish we could keep clean sheets we really need to beat Sunderland.
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Given other results I can't think otherwise that yesterday was a massive blow to us. Assuming that the manager and players are all doing their best, then frankly I don't thing we are good enough to stay up. The matches against Man U and Chelsea will just see our appalling goal difference get noticeably worse. The damage has been done I'm afraid.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
CNZ was involved in everything we did , he looked dangerous and the only player who looked like doing anything . In the teamof the day on MOTD and MOM in most papers . Suprised you thought he was poor .
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Re the substitutions I thought Lambert had it spot on and all of the subs added something, I really cant understand anyone who doesn't see something in Sylla. He's athletic, powerful and doesnt give the ball away, when he gets a few games under his belt I see him being one of the first names on the team sheet. Holman added energy and Bent also looked sharp. Both Weimann and CNZ had run out of steam.
Pretty much how I saw it too
Likewise
Holman adds energy but very little ability.
energy , always looks knackered as soon as he comes on .
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Gutted by the result and the fact my car got towed from Moor Lane, underneath the flyover. Mine was the only car that appeared to have been towed! Birmingham City Council are getting a strongly worded letter!
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Probably a fair result. Not perfect, but not a disaster either.
If someone had offered me 4 points from Stoke away & Fulham at home, I would have taken that.
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N'Zogbia being substituted was the right thing to do. All he did for me was score a goal. He consistently makes the wrong decisions position ally and with the ball. He takes players on when he should pass, passes when he should take them on and shoots when it is the wrong option. Yes he scored a good goal, but our problem yesterday was the midfield/attack not keeping possession at key times. CNZ was right to go off.
CNZ was involved in everything we did , he looked dangerous and the only player who looked like doing anything . In the teamof the day on MOTD and MOM in most papers . Suprised you thought he was poor .
They also selected Baker in the MOTD team, which says more about the day than the team. Even the pundits distanced themselves from the selection process. If you think that N'Zogbia played well then view football differently to me. I was 100% behind that substitution. I can't see him being a Lambert player next year and the team will be better for it.