Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: ROBBO on January 29, 2013, 07:07:50 AM
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Just watched most of the replay against Bradford and couple of things really stood out, one was the difference in Nzogbia having more freedom to move around, he really seemed to want the ball and was one who didn't disappoint. The other was how narrow we played especially down the right, time and again we had the ball fright of midfield but the ball carrier had to either move back infield wait for someone to move out there, it looked so pedestrian. Gabby looked like a player that didn't have a clue as to where he was playing.
Is this part of the problem?
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We really need our wide men to support our full backs. None of them track back.
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Lambert was trying to replicate the Dutch "Total Football" experiment
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I mentioned this on the match thread. Our strikers don't stretch sides by running the channels. This was always one of Gabby's strengths because of his pace but he and Benteke must be told not to do this. As a result, the full backs often have no-one in front and have to turn back inside.
Against Bradford, I am convinced that if we had done this we would have pulled their defensive set up about far more than we did and created more space, particularly as the game wore on.
Thought our tactics were poor on the night as we played as if we were playing another Premier League side.
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Our tactics/line up were wrong against Bradford in the first leg, and again in the second leg. They were bound to play defensively in the second leg and we should have tried to pull their full backs out wide and stretch their defence. How many times did Lowton have the ball out wide and attempt to make a run? If Walker had been in that position with that much space in front of him their left back would have been going dizzy.
And then the tactics after they scored -well that has been debated enough.
This is the one big nagging doubt I have about PL - the way he sets his team up and the tactics he employs. I think he gets it wrong more often then he gets it right and that is a worry.
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Nick - spot on about the strikers going wide, but it's not just them, the midfield are guilty of it as well, both in defence and attack. We don't pin their fullbacks wide when we attack and we don't pick them up when they come forward. All season it's been fullbacks that have caused us problems, when we do close them down it's usually at the expense of leaving their winger or a central midfielder with time and space.
As fredm says, this is my big problem with PL, he doesn't seem to know how to deal with this. At Norwich they had similar problems at times but they were confident and all wanted to have the ball so they kept possession better, with us giving the ball away so much the problem is being exposed much more frequently. Add in our complete inability to deal with corners and it adds up to the shocking defensive record we're seeing.
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We really need our wide men to support our full backs. None of them track back.
This is massive for me. Bennett gets a lot of stick both on here and at the games (some of which is justified), but he gets no help whatsoever from the midfield and is nearly always played into trouble.
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We need width, simple.
But Lambert does'nt play with width, it's all through the middle.
Crosses into box = Chances + shots at goal = goals.
Simples, I'm a tactical fecking genius.
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You have to have a balance, too much reliance on width and you get what we had with MoN, good on the counter away from home but struggle to break teams down if they defend deep.
The modern game requires you to be good at using the space that's available, regardless of where it is.
Defensively we give teams too much space and going forward we play where we're comfortable not where we should.
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I feel sorry for Bennett too re support. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with a genuine left and right midfield player tracking and helping, both our fullbacks would look fine. Trouble is the centre of the pitch would look woeful.
As such we pack central, lose that and then are exposed down the sides. Only way out is to play an isolated 4-5-1 but the spar midfielder if NZogbia or Ireland don't drop in so it becomes 4-4-2 by default, and you carry the work of the middle 1.
The answer? God knows. 2 stronger, faster, more athletic and technically sound midfield players.
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One of my Bug Bears dating way way back to BFRs days when he used to stick Yorkie out on wing is this.
And the Brian played him in midfield to accommadate Savo and Vitcor.
Any team needs balance, shape as well as players
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It's a real pisser that Lambert doesn't see Clark as a midfielder. If we could take him out of the firing line at centre back where his confidence must be getting lower all the time, his passing and awareness could be really useful to us in the middle of the park.
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Nick - spot on about the strikers going wide, but it's not just them, the midfield are guilty of it as well, both in defence and attack. We don't pin their fullbacks wide when we attack and we don't pick them up when they come forward. All season it's been fullbacks that have caused us problems, when we do close them down it's usually at the expense of leaving their winger or a central midfielder with time and space.
As fredm says, this is my big problem with PL, he doesn't seem to know how to deal with this. At Norwich they had similar problems at times but they were confident and all wanted to have the ball so they kept possession better, with us giving the ball away so much the problem is being exposed much more frequently. Add in our complete inability to deal with corners and it adds up to the shocking defensive record we're seeing.
I was sat in top tier of the Trinity Road for the Bradford game and you could clearly see what was needed. Lowton was pushing on and every time he got the ball there was a huge gap in behind the man who came to close him down. It was crying for Gabby or N'Zogbia to make a run into the space behind, but neither of them did. The movement of our forwards when we are in possession is non-existent.
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If you're going to play narrow, then your midfield must be fluid, but more than anything, your full backs must, must, must(!) push on.
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I feel sorry for Bennett too re support. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with a genuine left and right midfield player tracking and helping, both our fullbacks would look fine. Trouble is the centre of the pitch would look woeful.
As such we pack central, lose that and then are exposed down the sides. Only way out is to play an isolated 4-5-1 but the spar midfielder if NZogbia or Ireland don't drop in so it becomes 4-4-2 by default, and you carry the work of the middle 1.
The answer? God knows. 2 stronger, faster, more athletic and technically sound midfield players.
Maybe he will when Dunne is back
a mf of Westwood, Clark and say Delph is more solid looking than any involving Bannan or Ireland (who should be sent to Mali in my book)
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If you're going to play narrow, then your midfield must be fluid, but more than anything, your full backs must, must, must(!) push on.
The two things must go hand-in-hand. With the lack of fluidity from our midfield, our full-backs are all too often isolated and vulnerable in the opposition half. Without support, they carry no threat. May beat the first man, but with no movement around them to at least distract the opposing full-back, possesion is too easily relinquished. I think both Bennett and Lowton are aware of this shortcoming, hence their propensity to turn and play the ball back to the central defenders from what, were they wingers, would seem promising positions. Someone mentioned watching from the upper Trinity. Maybe if PL watched from up here, instead of the worm's-eye-view offered from our dugout, he might see what are some basic yet easily corrected problems
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If you're going to play narrow, then your midfield must be fluid, but more than anything, your full backs must, must, must(!) push on.
The two things must go hand-in-hand. With the lack of fluidity from our midfield, our full-backs are all too often isolated and vulnerable in the opposition half. Without support, they carry no threat. May beat the first man, but with no movement around them to at least distract the opposing full-back, possesion is too easily relinquished. I think both Bennett and Lowton are aware of this shortcoming, hence their propensity to turn and play the ball back to the central defenders from what, were they wingers, would seem promising positions. Someone mentioned watching from the upper Trinity. Maybe if PL watched from up here, instead of the worm's-eye-view offered from our dugout, he might see what are some basic yet easily corrected problems
Have always wondered why football managers insist on standing on the touchline when their observation must be limited. Rugby coaches, generally without exception, sit high up in the stand so they can see the whole panorama in front of them. If they need to make a switch or get a rollicking out to someone they just use the radio connection they have to their assistants who are on the touchline and it is sorted. Wasn't it JG who after one of his touchline bans said he saw things differently when he was sat up in the stand?
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If you're going to play narrow, then your midfield must be fluid, but more than anything, your full backs must, must, must(!) push on.
The two things must go hand-in-hand. With the lack of fluidity from our midfield, our full-backs are all too often isolated and vulnerable in the opposition half. Without support, they carry no threat. May beat the first man, but with no movement around them to at least distract the opposing full-back, possesion is too easily relinquished. I think both Bennett and Lowton are aware of this shortcoming, hence their propensity to turn and play the ball back to the central defenders from what, were they wingers, would seem promising positions. Someone mentioned watching from the upper Trinity. Maybe if PL watched from up here, instead of the worm's-eye-view offered from our dugout, he might see what are some basic yet easily corrected problems
Have always wondered why football managers insist on standing on the touchline when their observation must be limited. Rugby coaches, generally without exception, sit high up in the stand so they can see the whole panorama in front of them. If they need to make a switch or get a rollicking out to someone they just use the radio connection they have to their assistants who are on the touchline and it is sorted. Wasn't it JG who after one of his touchline bans said he saw things differently when he was sat up in the stand?
Never quite got that either, maybe in the past with single tear stands it made sense but now?
It would be far more benefitial to be up in the Trinity middle and get a good view of how the game is going.
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Doesn't seem a million years ago that that was the norm. Watch the first half from the director's box, and only take a place pitchside for the second.
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Against Bradford, I am convinced that if we had done this we would have pulled their defensive set up about far more than we did and created more space, particularly as the game wore on.
Thought our tactics were poor on the night as we played as if we were playing another Premier League side.
Not sure about another PL side, more very crap pub side. I got the idea we only wanted to play width wise, in two thirds of the pitch. Instead of stretching them, creating more space for the strikers to attack, we had Gabby, Bent and Benteke in a two metre square space. Lambert made it very easy for the Bradford defence to deal with the hoofs into the box.
The shocking thing is, it wasn't for the last few minutes, it was for most of the second half.
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Forwards going wide especially Weiman annoys me as his forte is playing just off Benteke directly in front of goal. He took the knock on from Bent brilliantly, a typical old fashioned inside forward is Weiman.
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Forwards going wide especially Weiman annoys me as his forte is playing just off Benteke directly in front of goal. He took the knock on from Bent brilliantly, a typical old fashioned inside forward is Weiman.
Then it has to be the "free man" who makes those runs. N'Zogbia has never seemed too keen on doing too much running off the ball though.
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I think we can continue playing N'zogbia in the hole but we need three central midfielders behind him, say Westwood, KEA and one of Delph/Holamn. No more Bannan please, I'm no fan but it's painful watching him knowing the crowd is on his back.
Bennett, my problem isn't going forward as he's set up a couple of goals from nice crosses recently but that the boy can't defend one on one.