Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Monty on January 23, 2013, 01:19:00 PM
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The current situation is a unique crisis in the history of the club. We've been down before, we've been rubbish before, but the peculiarly suicidal plunge to relegation in the season when, because of TV money, you just do not wanted to be relegated is new. Whatever we feel about the manager, I think most of us recognise that the problem is right at the top: Lerner was once a benevolent fool, now the benevolence has dried up and now we're left with the fool, and his decision to surround himself with his friends rather than people who either know the club, the game or both, is cronyism and reminiscent of a child playing with his toy.
The club is in a rut. If the Premier League is a vaguely poncy minimalist living room then we're just that stained old armchair that everyone means to throw out but hasn't brought themselves to - yet. If you look at the way clubs in the Premier League are run now, there are some impressive models there: Southampton and Wigan may go down, but they have a clear footballing vision which should help them long term; Fulham kept themselves afloat for long enough and now absolutely fulfil their function, which is to stay in the Premier League and play football entertaining enough for their fans; even Newcastle, realising they're in trouble, have a terrific scouting system to fall back on and will probably be fine; most galling, Boggies have been through three managers in two years but have a stable footballing boardroom which keeps them on the right track; Swansea are amazing, a fan-run mini-Barcelona who seem to exemplify the new breed of top-flight club.
By comparison, we are a floundering, rudderless mess, veering wildly from extreme to extreme, from paying Emile Heskey £65k a week to possibly not signing anyone in our direst need in many years, from Houllier trying to build the club on footballing principles to McLeish's defensive nihilism and back again to Lambert, who is like a nicer but frankly less clued-up Houllier. All this is ultimately the fault of the ownership, and the club is heading for oblivion with him in charge. We know this. The question is: what do we can about it? Do we organise protests? Would that help, or would that just add to the malaise around the club and just help ensure our relegation? Do we wait until the summer, or would that be too late?
This is our club they're destroying. We protested Doug for less than this. 'Fan action' has been known to fail embarrassingly, but a couple of the clubs mentioned above are where they are because of fan intervention. I don't know if there is anything we can do, but if there is, shouldn't we try?
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All you can do is keep taking the tablets.
In no other part of life would people put up with what we have had to. True, we can't all win, but at least we can look like we fucking want to.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
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Lerner's biggest fault has been in the people he brought in to run the club.
There needs to be someone in the upper management who has the view of maintaining the squad as the club's main asset. Someone who, if it came to selling our best players, would take the longer term view of how to reinvest that money to keep value in the squad. That has been massively missing. How many other clubs have watched expensive players on long, lucrative contracts, contribute next to nothing and then walk away for nothing like we have, costing us tens of millions of pounds?
How come Spurs and Everton sell their best players but manage to invest money wisely and keep a balanced, decent squad, but we can't?
Then there is the lack of continuity in the manager position.
Lambert has been poor, but appointing him was not the pivotal moment. That was when Houllier went. Finally, we'd started to achieve some continuity, the football was improving, and we finished a respectable (somewhat flattering) ninth. That was the point at which to make a really clever appointment to continue the improvement.
At that point, it was vital to make the right appointment. They needed to keep calm, take advice (from people with our best interests at heart, not other PL managers) and select the right man. Instead we had a farcical mess of getting made to look like chumps by Dave Whelan, having it look like the fans got Lerner to cancel an interview with McLaren, and pointless statements on the OS saying "we're looking for a manager".
At the end of it, we'd grumbled when he looked at Martinez, but he goes and does the utterly, utterly stupid thing of talking to McLeish.
Even if you leave aside the obvious points about McLeish's record, where on earth is the continuity, the joined-up thinking that has you going after Martinez with his style of football one day, then to the diametric opposite the next? They didn't listen, they stubbornly thought our moaning was all about him having been at Blues, and what happened? It was an utter disaster.
I genuinely think, if three years ago, Lerner had been possessed by a malevolent force and thought, "I'm going to fuck this club up, make appointments that run it into the ground", it couldn't have panned out any worse than it has with him actually "trying his best".
As someone said to me earlier, and I am sure he won't mind me repeating it here:
Manchester City's CEO came from Barcelona.
Arsenal's came from the MLS.
Chelsea's came from Umbro.
Ours came from a call centre in Chester.
Unfortunately, until he starts to appoint people with football knowledge and nous, and stops relying on his network of friends (Krulak, Faulkner), then we are always going to be swimming against the current.
There is nothing we can do to change that. We can't force him to sell. We can't force a buyer to magically appear.
We are in huge amounts of debt and looking like losing our top flight status. Who is going to want to buy a basket case of a club like us right now?
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change the manager while the transfare window is still open give new bloke a chance to get some experience players in
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Short answer - as fans, literally nothing. I don't want to be defeatist but the fans gave 100% last night and it still made no difference. We don't pick the team, we don't take training, we don't set the budgets. If we protest the management will either ignore us or mouth empty platitudes.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.
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What can we do?
Nothing!
It is not impossible to make the argument that every time the fans do something they make matters worse.
When the fans organised and were led by Buck Chinn, all it achieved was to open the way for Doug Ellis to get involved, and once he'd got his feet under the table, all the promises of fans on the board were forgotten.
Further fan action led to the ousting of Ellis and prompted new owner Lerner to waste millions trying to win over the fans he assumed were hostile.
The fans collectively vetoed the employment of Steve McClaren as manager and the club in desperation hired Alex McLeish.
The fans protested against McLeish and he was sacked after surviving relegation and they endorsed the hiring of Paul Lambert and accepted the plan to downgrade the squad.
So based on that, I think the fans have a pretty lousy track-record and should leave things well alone.
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Further fan action led to the ousting of Ellis and prompted new owner Lerner to waste millions trying to win over the fans he assumed were hostile.
With all due respect, most of that post is utterly untrue, particularly this bit.
I certainly don't recall Ellis ever bending to fan action, and certainly not to sell up. He sold up when it suited him, and not a minute earlier.
As for Lerner spending millions to win over fans he assumed were hostile - he'd have seen within a few days that he was worshipped - as he continued to be so for two or three years.
Bending the facts to suit your argument - and that's without even touching the suggestion that it was fans who "vetoed" McClaren and in some way forced them to get McLeish.
I also don't see how the fans in some way endorsed or accepted a plan to downgrade the squad because we rated Lambert.
Do you think there was a possible managerial appointment which wouldn't involve austerity?
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.
I absolutely agree. Lerner and Faulkner could ignore a media letter but that would damage their reputation even more. They would have to respond or everyone would make their own mind up over what's going on.
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None of the fuckwits running the club deserve the support they get. I had hairs on the back when I heard the Holte.
Then I saw that second half and realsied none of them deserved that support or deserved to even wear the shirt.
The club is being destroyed.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.
Lerner and Faulkner do not give two hoots for the fans. Take your free flag and be quiet. Says it all to me.
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Lerner's biggest fault has been in the people he brought in to run the club.
There needs to be someone in the upper management who has the view of maintaining the squad as the club's main asset. Someone who, if it came to selling our best players, would take the longer term view of how to reinvest that money to keep value in the squad. That has been massively missing. How many other clubs have watched expensive players on long, lucrative contracts, contribute next to nothing and then walk away for nothing like we have, costing us tens of millions of pounds?
How come Spurs and Everton sell their best players but manage to invest money wisely and keep a balanced, decent squad, but we can't?
Then there is the lack of continuity in the manager position.
Lambert has been poor, but appointing him was not the pivotal moment. That was when Houllier went. Finally, we'd started to achieve some continuity, the football was improving, and we finished a respectable (somewhat flattering) ninth. That was the point at which to make a really clever appointment to continue the improvement.
At that point, it was vital to make the right appointment. They needed to keep calm, take advice (from people with our best interests at heart, not other PL managers) and select the right man. Instead we had a farcical mess of getting made to look like chumps by Dave Whelan, having it look like the fans got Lerner to cancel an interview with McLaren, and pointless statements on the OS saying "we're looking for a manager".
At the end of it, we'd grumbled when he looked at Martinez, but he goes and does the utterly, utterly stupid thing of talking to McLeish.
Even if you leave aside the obvious points about McLeish's record, where on earth is the continuity, the joined-up thinking that has you going after Martinez with his style of football one day, then to the diametric opposite the next? They didn't listen, they stubbornly thought our moaning was all about him having been at Blues, and what happened? It was an utter disaster.
I genuinely think, if three years ago, Lerner had been possessed by a malevolent force and thought, "I'm going to fuck this club up, make appointments that run it into the ground", it couldn't have panned out any worse than it has with him actually "trying his best".
As someone said to me earlier, and I am sure he won't mind me repeating it here:
Manchester City's CEO came from Barcelona.
Arsenal's came from the MLS.
Chelsea's came from Umbro.
Ours came from a call centre in Chester.
Unfortunately, until he starts to appoint people with football knowledge and nous, and stops relying on his network of friends (Krulak, Faulkner), then we are always going to be swimming against the current.
There is nothing we can do to change that. We can't force him to sell. We can't force a buyer to magically appear.
We are in huge amounts of debt and looking like losing our top flight status. Who is going to want to buy a basket case of a club like us right now?
Sad. And very true.
There is just no fucking hope anymore. Nothing.
I have had enough of it all and being depressed about it.
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When the owner cannot even be bothered to turn up for a cup semi final, and has no plans to visit in the near future (according to the BBC), I reckon the tone is set.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.
Lerner and Faulkner do not give two hoots for the fans. Take your free flag and be quiet. Says it all to me.
From what I could see, more people than not left their free flag behind.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
I don't give a fuck if other teams fans and the media think its embarassing. They can fuck off. If we do nothing, we will go down without a fight, if we do something, we may somehow start scrapping it out withh the other shite in the devision. Better to try something than sit on our arses.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
I don't give a fuck if other teams fans and the media think its embarassing. They can fuck off. If we do nothing, we will go down without a fight, if we do something, we may somehow start scrapping it out withh the other shite in the devision. Better to try something than sit on our arses.
I agree. If we do nothing don't we kinda get what we deserve?
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What we need to ask for is footballing legacy that comes from the boardroom.
All of the problems we have now come down to the fact that the manager is the be all and end all of the on the pitch aspect of the club (i.e. the important bit). This means if the manager leaves we have no one to direct things and provide continuity.
All the fans can do is repeatedly ask for a director of football, more money isn't the answer, we've spent lots and have fuck all to show for it because of the complete lack of direction above the manager.
An open letter in the papers that reads:
"Oi Randy, employ a director who knows the game" is all it needs.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
I don't give a fuck if other teams fans and the media think its embarassing. They can fuck off. If we do nothing, we will go down without a fight, if we do something, we may somehow start scrapping it out withh the other shite in the devision. Better to try something than sit on our arses.
I agree. If we do nothing don't we kinda get what we deserve?
I think we are already getting what we deserve.
We have been in denial about Lerner for three years and happy to put all the blame on O'Neill to explain the decline.
The momentum of that decline has gathered to the point where there is nothing we can do to reverse it.
It would be better if we could at least preserve a little bit of dignity as we cope with that decline.
There is no dignity standing with a bed-sheet with some misspelt slogan spray-painted on it.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
I don't give a fuck if other teams fans and the media think its embarassing. They can fuck off. If we do nothing, we will go down without a fight, if we do something, we may somehow start scrapping it out withh the other shite in the devision. Better to try something than sit on our arses.
I agree. If we do nothing don't we kinda get what we deserve?
I think we are already getting what we deserve.
We have been in denial about Lerner for three years and happy to put all the blame on O'Neill to explain the decline.
The momentum of that decline has gathered to the point where there is nothing we can do to reverse it.
It would be better if we could at least preserve a little bit of dignity as we cope with that decline.
There is no dignity standing with a bed-sheet with some misspelt slogan spray-painted on it.
Fair enough, we'll do nothing then. The weather's not too good anyway.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
I don't give a fuck if other teams fans and the media think its embarassing. They can fuck off. If we do nothing, we will go down without a fight, if we do something, we may somehow start scrapping it out withh the other shite in the devision. Better to try something than sit on our arses.
I agree. If we do nothing don't we kinda get what we deserve?
I think we are already getting what we deserve.
We have been in denial about Lerner for three years and happy to put all the blame on O'Neill to explain the decline.
The momentum of that decline has gathered to the point where there is nothing we can do to reverse it.
It would be better if we could at least preserve a little bit of dignity as we cope with that decline.
There is no dignity standing with a bed-sheet with some misspelt slogan spray-painted on it.
Most fans think the fault lies somewhere between Lerner and MON, with sprinklings of Houllier, TSM and Lambert in there as well.
mon wasted money on shit, both in fees and wages.
lerner let him and had no strategy to replace him or subsequent managers.
houllier pissed too many people off and tried to change things too quickly.
tsm ripped the heart of the club by making us a soulless anti-football abomination.
lambert has failed to arrest the slide that tsm started and has looked completely lost if plan a doesn't work.
On top of that you can add in some pretty disgraceful episodes from senior players, in terms of attitude and performances.
No one at the club is blameless but to get beyond it we need the board to start concentrating on the core business and making things right on the pitch, fuck the wage bill, sponsors, bank balance, etc. Right now we need to start holding our own in games and make sure we survive, then revisit the other stuff in the summer, but always with an eye on the effect it has on the playing side. We're only going to get that if the football knowledge at board level is increased significantly.
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I feel sorry for Dave Woodhall because he knows that when people say that something needs to be done, they include him in those who need to do it.
Work and intrusion which he could probably well do without.
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I feel sorry for Dave Woodhall because he knows that when people say that something needs to be done, they include him in those who need to do it.
Work and intrusion which he could probably well do without.
1) What a bizarre post.
2) I never mentioned Dave.
3) I'm sure Dave can look after himself.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
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What we need to ask for is footballing legacy that comes from the boardroom.
All of the problems we have now come down to the fact that the manager is the be all and end all of the on the pitch aspect of the club (i.e. the important bit). This means if the manager leaves we have no one to direct things and provide continuity.
All the fans can do is repeatedly ask for a director of football, more money isn't the answer, we've spent lots and have fuck all to show for it because of the complete lack of direction above the manager.
An open letter in the papers that reads:
"Oi Randy, employ a director who knows the game" is all it needs.
I agree with this, we need a sporting director and more structure to the playing side.
The one constant that everyone has talked about with the villa this season is the young players. What has escaped a lot of people's attention is that Paul Lambert is also a relatively young and inexperienced manager. You can't help think that a bit of guidance and support would help.
Leaving the running of the sporting side of the villa to the first team and his staff (whoever that might be) is negligence of the highest order and the blame for that can only be placed at Lerners door. This was obvious when MON walked and 3 years later nothing has been done. Now it's probably way too late for it to now have any effect.
What a mess.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
Sensible protest that would be, and effective.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
That'll be easy for me. I won four corporate tickets at the evening with John Gregory.
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes, weve done what the club asked of us and earned the right for an explanation. It doesnt get any more embarrasing than the last 4 weeks culminating in the shambles from last night. I completely agree that a media letter would be an excellent place to start and what ever we do needs to be done with some class and decorum but the silence from inside VP is deafening. RL and PF need to be held accountable for this downward spiral and explain what is going on. There are a couple on here with excellent media contacts (DW?) Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say.
Lerner and Faulkner do not give two hoots for the fans. Take your free flag and be quiet. Says it all to me.
From what I could see, more people than not left their free flag behind.
White flags would have been more appropriate!
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I feel sorry for Dave Woodhall because he knows that when people say that something needs to be done, they include him in those who need to do it.
Work and intrusion which he could probably well do without.
2) I never mentioned Dave.
I never said you did but another poster wrote:
"Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say."
Sounds like he might include Dave in that description, to me.
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What we need to ask for is footballing legacy that comes from the boardroom.
All of the problems we have now come down to the fact that the manager is the be all and end all of the on the pitch aspect of the club (i.e. the important bit). This means if the manager leaves we have no one to direct things and provide continuity.
All the fans can do is repeatedly ask for a director of football, more money isn't the answer, we've spent lots and have fuck all to show for it because of the complete lack of direction above the manager.
An open letter in the papers that reads:
"Oi Randy, employ a director who knows the game" is all it needs.
Absolutely whole-heartedly agree with that.
And credit to the OP for trying to do something. I think an open-letter in some newspapers would garner a lot of attention and may draw Lerner into at the very least affirming what exactly his plan is.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
A futile gesture.
The problem is not that Lerner has not spent money, he has, it is that it has largely been squandered. The financial impact of relegation far outweighs the shortfall in a few pie sales.
We are currently experiencing a perfect storm of bad luck, and bad judgement. I agree with those who see no easy escape route.
This window sees a cruel catch 22. Few players with any sense would join us at the moment. Money may lure them, but players lured by money are unlikely to be the answer. Lambert has no experience of buying to rescue a PL berth- and nor does anyone else at the club. Giving him cash does not offer any guarantee that it will be spent wisely.
I think that Lambert has talent. He may also have the skill to lead us out of the Championship. But I do worry that the players have lost confidence in him.
It is curious how Lerner, like many owners, is happy to throw large sums at player and manager wages, but so little at boardroom expertise. David Dein, Brian Barwick and Peter Kenyon ( for example) are all Boardroom Bastards who know what footballing success looks like. Graham Taylor, BFR, and David Pleat are “eminence grise” who understand the playing side at football clubs and whose views could easily be harnassed as non exec Directors advising on football. Now I do not want to get hung up on names, some of the above will be popular, some will not, some will favour other names, and that is fine. But the current problem is that those chairs are empty .Any discussion in the Boardroom about Lambert, a replacement, the Championship, transfer funds now and in the summer is fatally flawed. Faulkner is not up to the job.
The inevitable conclusion to the above is a predictable car crash, which will only be avoided by luck. And you can only rely on luck for so long.
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The fans collectively vetoed the employment of Steve McClaren as manager and the club in desperation hired Alex McLeish.
Forgot about that. We protested against Mclaren and we got Mcleish. You've got to laugh I suppose.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
That obviously won't work because if you look at the amount of money this club will lose if we get relegated, that isn't spurring him into action. I think he has lost interest. I suppose earning a shitload of money from selling the browns means he has lots of new toys to play with, so the old ones get discarded!
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What we need to ask for is footballing legacy that comes from the boardroom.
All of the problems we have now come down to the fact that the manager is the be all and end all of the on the pitch aspect of the club (i.e. the important bit). This means if the manager leaves we have no one to direct things and provide continuity.
All the fans can do is repeatedly ask for a director of football, more money isn't the answer, we've spent lots and have fuck all to show for it because of the complete lack of direction above the manager.
An open letter in the papers that reads:
"Oi Randy, employ a director who knows the game" is all it needs.
Absolutely whole-heartedly agree with that.
And credit to the OP for trying to do something. I think an open-letter in some newspapers would garner a lot of attention and may draw Lerner into at the very least affirming what exactly his plan is.
Lerner.......Has a plan? Now i'm interested.
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Faulkner and Lerner
Get the F 'n' L Out!
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What we need to ask for is footballing legacy that comes from the boardroom.
All of the problems we have now come down to the fact that the manager is the be all and end all of the on the pitch aspect of the club (i.e. the important bit). This means if the manager leaves we have no one to direct things and provide continuity.
All the fans can do is repeatedly ask for a director of football, more money isn't the answer, we've spent lots and have fuck all to show for it because of the complete lack of direction above the manager.
An open letter in the papers that reads:
"Oi Randy, employ a director who knows the game" is all it needs.
Absolutely whole-heartedly agree with that.
And credit to the OP for trying to do something. I think an open-letter in some newspapers would garner a lot of attention and may draw Lerner into at the very least affirming what exactly his plan is.
Lerner.......Has a plan? Now i'm interested.
Sorry, I should have qualified that :)
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change the manager while the transfare window is still open give new bloke a chance to get some experience players in
Agreed.
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change the manager while the transfare window is still open give new bloke a chance to get some experience players in
Agreed.
The last 30 minutes yesterday was as if we hadn't got a manager. Still shocked we could 'play' like that. Much as the Southampton way seems at bit harse it's the way to to do it if you want change. Would L & F have somebody lined up? No, so we are stuck with what we have and the likely fate that awaits.
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No, No, No, Lambert has to stay, we have to back him fully and trust that he can get us out of the Championship at the first try. Make no mistake we are relegated. Period.
What I think we have to ask ourselves now is how are we planning to react to this impending relegation?
Go down quietly or voice our opinion as one loud united voice.
Looking on here we share a few things such as: the team aren't good enough, the tactics are crazy, the ambition has gone, the owner is absent, we haven't got any money left, the club appears to have no football strategy.
But we disagree on who's fault it is, I see posts about Lerner being tight, Lerner being generous, Lerner being dissinterested, Managers squandering his cash, directors of football, Faulkener being a clown, Wage pressure, Profit and Loss needing to be managed, posts pleading to spend, spend, spend.
I think whilst we continue to disagree on what the main fundamental problem(s) is/are and what exactly we need to effect a change in them then Supporter Protest/Pressure is doomed to failure.
I think we need to adopt West Bromwich Albion's model of a Director of Football so we can sack managers at will and not feel thier loss for a start but it is just my opinion.
I think Lerner should spend lots of money with no view to ever getting it back on securing some hardened players by next Thursday that MIGHT give us a fighting chance of staying up but this is just my opinion (and a bit of a pipe dream).
I think Lerner should sell the club to someone who cares about the football club as much as we do.
But these are just opinions and until we galvanise our opinions and start a cohesive movement based on our main objectives as supporters then whatever we do can be brushed off as 'just the fans'.
Anyone want to present a manifesto for perusal with the top objectives that we can debate and whittle down to one ot two must happen nows that we can all get behind?
Once we all agree to stick together as one through thick and thin on a couple of fundamental issues then and only then will be listened too.
When we turned on McLeish (all of us together) then he was gone in weeks. We can do whatever we want but only if thousands of us are completely united and unwavering. I don't think we can do it but if we can then I'm in 100%.
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I feel sorry for Dave Woodhall because he knows that when people say that something needs to be done, they include him in those who need to do it.
Work and intrusion which he could probably well do without.
2) I never mentioned Dave.
I never said you did but another poster wrote:
"Im sure if someone (slightly more articulate than me!) were to draft a letter and post it on here and VT, sensible replies and additions could be made to garner a true represenation of what the fans want to ask/say."
Sounds like he might include Dave in that description, to me.
I'm sure Dave really appreciates you sticking up for him but if you read my post properly you would realise that I Didn't insinuate he would have anything to do with forming said letter. I did mention that he will have good media connections and may be able to help getting it to the right people and attaching some credibility but that's hardly violating the mans civil liberties.
If anything, montberts original article would be a good place to start...
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How about a dirty protest.On Tuesday night go for a piss and don't wash your hands.That will make Randy take notice.
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Rather like an alcoholic, Lerner and Ginge need to admit that they have a problem. Until they do that they won't change, and as a result we will all suffer. A tragic end to our 'bright future'.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
Absolutely zero chance of this. Half the Holte End get up and queue up for a pint after 30 minutes play. And who can blame them?
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Stick our head in the sand?
Pray?
Cross our fingers?
Wait for a miracle?
Hope for divine intervention?
I think I've just summed up our board's new philosophy there.
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How about a dirty protest.On Tuesday night go for a piss and don't wash your hands.That will make Randy take notice.
Those were the days when you could try and piss over the wall in the old holte end urinals!
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
A) why would anyone buy any of that shit anyway and b) those poor learning difficulty serving folk make it impossible to get anyway.
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Next week against Newcastle.
Not ONE person buys a burger/pie/programme/drink inside the ground. Not one person buys anything from the club shop. The only way Lerner will take note is if it is in his pocket. If he can't be arsed to spend money, then neither should we.
A) why would anyone buy any of that shit anyway and b) those poor learning difficulty serving folk make it impossible to get anyway.
Do me a favour and lay off the learning difficulty references - come and meet my lad who has them (and autism) and is a friendly, helpful and loyal Villan in the Upper Trinity A2; he may complain if you swear though ;-)
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Just as I thought we ahve as much direction as the team as supporters, none.
Nothing will change. We are down.
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No, No, No, Lambert has to stay, we have to back him fully and trust that he can get us out of the Championship at the first try. Make no mistake we are relegated. Period.
What I think we have to ask ourselves now is how are we planning to react to this impending relegation?
Go down quietly or voice our opinion as one loud united voice.
Looking on here we share a few things such as: the team aren't good enough, the tactics are crazy, the ambition has gone, the owner is absent, we haven't got any money left, the club appears to have no football strategy.
But we disagree on who's fault it is, I see posts about Lerner being tight, Lerner being generous, Lerner being dissinterested, Managers squandering his cash, directors of football, Faulkener being a clown, Wage pressure, Profit and Loss needing to be managed, posts pleading to spend, spend, spend.
I think whilst we continue to disagree on what the main fundamental problem(s) is/are and what exactly we need to effect a change in them then Supporter Protest/Pressure is doomed to failure.
I think we need to adopt West Bromwich Albion's model of a Director of Football so we can sack managers at will and not feel thier loss for a start but it is just my opinion.
I think Lerner should spend lots of money with no view to ever getting it back on securing some hardened players by next Thursday that MIGHT give us a fighting chance of staying up but this is just my opinion (and a bit of a pipe dream).
I think Lerner should sell the club to someone who cares about the football club as much as we do.
But these are just opinions and until we galvanise our opinions and start a cohesive movement based on our main objectives as supporters then whatever we do can be brushed off as 'just the fans'.
Anyone want to present a manifesto for perusal with the top objectives that we can debate and whittle down to one ot two must happen nows that we can all get behind?
Once we all agree to stick together as one through thick and thin on a couple of fundamental issues then and only then will be listened too.
When we turned on McLeish (all of us together) then he was gone in weeks. We can do whatever we want but only if thousands of us are completely united and unwavering. I don't think we can do it but if we can then I'm in 100%.
I agree with everything you say except the bit where you say we are relegated. We've got to scrap it out and do all we can to stay up, throwing in the towel now is not an option.
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I agree with everything you say except the bit where you say we are relegated. We've got to scrap it out and do all we can to stay up, throwing in the towel now is not an option.
The towel was thrown in a long time ago. Firstly by our useless, playboy of an owner, and more recently by our useless manager and spineless players.
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Lots of people dismissing my suggestion of boycotting everything they sell in the ground and out on the matchday, but not one person has given an alternative suggestion...
... let's just whine about it on here then, and whinge when we're relegated that we never did anything.
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Do me a favour and lay off the learning difficulty references - come and meet my lad who has them (and autism) and is a friendly, helpful and loyal Villan in the Upper Trinity A2; he may complain if you swear though ;-)
[/quote]
WW, good job he was not within earshot of me last night. Another dose of 90 minute Tourette's ......
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Lots of people dismissing my suggestion of boycotting everything they sell in the ground and out on the matchday, but not one person has given an alternative suggestion...
... let's just whine about it on here then, and whinge when we're relegated that we never did anything.
Didn't someone suggest an open letter in one of the national newspapers? I agree that is a much better way of airing displeasure than doing somethig that is going to have a negative impact on the club.
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Us supporters have and only ever have had one way of protesting that actually makes any difference and that is to stay away. I have been going since 1963 until two seasons ago and have decided i wont set foot inside VP again until we are rid of Learner. It hurts missing games but someone tell me any other way to make a worthwhile protest
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Us supporters have and only ever have had one way of protesting that actually makes any difference and that is to stay away. I have been going since 1963 until two seasons ago and have decided i wont set foot inside VP again until we are rid of Learner. It hurts missing games but someone tell me any other way to make a worthwhile protest
Get a bedsheet and paint WANKER on it.
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Us supporters have and only ever have had one way of protesting that actually makes any difference and that is to stay away. I have been going since 1963 until two seasons ago and have decided i wont set foot inside VP again until we are rid of Learner. It hurts missing games but someone tell me any other way to make a worthwhile protest
Get a bedsheet and paint WANKER on it.
You mean
WaNke-
R
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Saw an idea about waving white flags at Necastle. Would be quite a site. Surely it would get a message to the board even if they then decide not to do anything.
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Problem is the club have the fans by the balls. The only way to really effect anything is not to turn up at the games, but they're aware the fans know that'll damage the club in the long run.
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Saw an idea about waving white flags at Necastle. Would be quite a site. Surely it would get a message to the board even if they then decide not to do anything.
Good idea this, especially after the free gift against Bradford.
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Saw an idea about waving white flags at Necastle. Would be quite a site. Surely it would get a message to the board even if they then decide not to do anything.
Good idea this, especially after the free gift against Bradford.
I think this would be an excellent idea, it would certainly get the media attention that we need to see the mess the club are in at the moment.
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Saw an idea about waving white flags at Necastle. Would be quite a site. Surely it would get a message to the board even if they then decide not to do anything.
Given the cost and practical difficulties with this - how about a variation on the theme. Everyone brings in a white handkerchief and waves it vigorously? The stewards couldn't stop us doing that.
Good idea this, especially after the free gift against Bradford.
I think this would be an excellent idea, it would certainly get the media attention that we need to see the mess the club are in at the moment.
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Everyone sees us waving our flags or hankies, and then what?
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The Newcastle fans hit us with a chorus of "we'll meet again"? I just remembered that they won't be feeling very sympathetic towards us after we sent them down a couple of years back.
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White hankies a bang on idea...but its publicising it isnt it....how does that happen?
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I have often thought about how to let the club know we're unhappy without getting any fan into trouble and without hurting the club/team financially...
The one thing I keep thinking is every fan to keep silent for the first five mins of the game, just total silence....
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Saw an idea about waving white flags at Necastle. Would be quite a site. Surely it would get a message to the board even if they then decide not to do anything.
Good idea this, especially after the free gift against Bradford.
I think this would be an excellent idea, it would certainly get the media attention that we need to see the mess the club are in at the moment.
But it could be taken in the wrong context basically the fans have given up the fight!
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I think people would take the point as intended.
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I think people would take the point as intended.
Are you joking? I think we'd get slaughtered.
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can everyone please make sure you use clean hankies.......
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White hankies a bang on idea...but its publicising it isnt it....how does that happen?
Forums, FB, Twitter, texts emails etc.
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I have often thought about how to let the club know we're unhappy without getting any fan into trouble and without hurting the club/team financially...
The one thing I keep thinking is every fan to keep silent for the first five mins of the game, just total silence....
Another good idea.
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I think people would take the point as intended.
Are you joking? I think we'd get slaughtered.
Sorry, by that I don't mean with hankies, I mean if they were proper white flags.
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White flags , hankies , knickers , whatever you want as long as its white.
To show randy we think its pants why not wave them ?
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White flags , hankies , knickers , whatever you want as long as its white.
To show randy we think its pants why not wave them ?
Absolutely
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White flags , hankies , knickers , whatever you want as long as its white.
To show randy we think its pants why not wave them ?
Wrong kind of club mate ;D
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White flags , hankies , knickers , whatever you want as long as its white.
To show randy we think its pants why not wave them ?
Got a nice white towel I accidently stole from a hotel that might be useful. Can cut it up maybe!
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No fan action PLEASE! The Blackburn fans' carry on during Steve Kean's rein was embarrassing, even if they were right he was useless.
Perhaps a letter addressed to Randy printed in one of the papers from a fans' representative asking him to clarify his motives in running the club into the ground (maybe put a little more diplomatically).
How can you say no fan action? In front of the watching football public we packed out Villa Park and gave it our all for 50 minutes...
Amidst all the anger and sadness and blame and recrimination aimed at our young players - our new manager - our owner - the replying sentence above sums up what's really wrong at VP.
UTV
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Lets go and riot at VP forget sponsored silences and waving white flags!
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Lets go and riot at VP forget sponsored silences and waving white flags!
What would that achieve?
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It is telling that it took an entire season for us to turn on TSM - I think Lambchop the sock puppet will cop it on Tuesday unless something changes.
It won't.
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Lets go and riot at VP forget sponsored silences and waving white flags!
What would that achieve?
Probably nothing, I'm angry/distraught/sad/devasted it's like watching a train wreck in slow motion and everyone else finds it hilarious!
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So am I. I don't find it funny at all.
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So am I. I don't find it funny at all.
No it's physically painful.
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If, and I do mean IF, fans were to act it would have to be something that ultimately won't hurt the club. Who were the fans who boycotted the first 10 or 15 minutes of a match? It should be something like that.
Waving white flags for example could indicate we're giving up. Not spending money on refreshments doesn't really help considering we are skint as it is.
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If, and I do mean IF, fans were to act it would have to be something that ultimately won't hurt the club. Who were the fans who boycotted the first 10 or 15 minutes of a match? It should be something like that.
Waving white flags for example could indicate we're giving up. Not spending money on refreshments doesn't really help considering we are skint as it is.
Yeah I guess so.
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So am I. I don't find it funny at all.
No I meant all other fans, infact not just football fans everyone is ripping the shit out of us now. I know that no Villa fans are finding it funny.
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Most fans of other clubs I know actually feel sorry for us.
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I don't give a flying feck what fans of other clubs think of us. All I care about is us.
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If, and I do mean IF, fans were to act it would have to be something that ultimately won't hurt the club. Who were the fans who boycotted the first 10 or 15 minutes of a match? It should be something like that.
Waving white flags for example could indicate we're giving up. Not spending money on refreshments doesn't really help considering we are skint as it is.
Turn our backs for the first 10 minutes,it would be better than watching the game.
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Now, I'm not one for daft and pointless posturing, but a white flag day could be alright.
The best protests are the ones that everyone can take part in, and that are a bit of fun, we did a good job with the £sign protest for instance, it didn't harm anyone, it was bloody obvious what it was aimed at (buy us a player Douglas) and no one was bothered about waving a £sign during the game.
Can't remember who did that "pants" protest a few years back (Reading?), that was good as well.
Organise it, go for it, not for Noocassell, too soon, but next home game after that. Spread the word, wave white things. Get it in the media, get organised. Reckon you can do that? Go on, you are whinging enough on here, get yourself organised.
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Most fans of other clubs I know actually feel sorry for us.
I do really hate that when they do. Supporting a football club that other supporters shower pity on is just about as bad as it gets.
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Most fans of other clubs I know actually feel sorry for us.
I do really hate that when they do. Supporting a football club that other supporters shower pity on is just about as bad as it gets.
it's like being Newcastle.