Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Chris Harte on January 23, 2013, 01:17:44 PM
-
Something that arised out of last night's game for me, and to be fair has been bugging me for a while now.
Is the era of fans being complete arseholes to their own players during a game a relatively new thing or has it always gone on? It certainly seems much worse these days than it ever used to be. I'm all for giving players the bird at full time but during a game it seems counter-productive.
I'm particularly interested in the opinions of those who would use the seats even pre-Taylor report, back as far as when I first started going to games regularly in the mid-1980s.
There's not a game that goes by it seems when someone is barking abuse at our own players. The three arseholes in the row behind me last night seemed to be particularly targetting Bannan, Ireland and N'Zogbia. In the past, in the days of terracing it would be possible to move away, but thats not the case now, hence my interest in answers from people who've always used seats.
-
The time you refer to is very different to today. Back then footballers earned well, but Stephen Ireland, for example earns the best part of £8000 a day. That is the difference for me, and why it gets frustrating when someone (not just him, he's an extreme example) can't string a seven yard pass together.
-
Whilst not condoning this behavious (some of it makes me cringe), I thnik it's because the modern day footballer is so far detatched from your average supporter.
When I started going down, I could cycle to Bodymoor Heath is the school holidays and watch them train up close, then wait for them to drive out in their Rovers and grab some autographs, with most of them happy to stop and chat. Nowadays everything is fenced off so you feel miles away from them, then if they do stop in their Audi Q7's or brand new Range Rovers you are lucky if they bother to make eye contact with you as they give their autograph.
When they earned a reasonably moderate wage back in the day, I could forgive almost anything on the pitch because they were my heroes and were doing something I could aspire to, but they were also regulay guys. Nowadays the first sight of a mis-placed pass or a half-hearted attempt to win the ball and my first thought is nearly always 'that twat earns in a week what I earn in 3 years, and is doing something I'd do for free', maybe a lot of people think the same.
-
It's just an example of the ever widening chasm between players and fans. They live in parallel worlds.
-
I don't remember it being any different. If players were continually shite they got dogs abuse from some fans. It's part of football.
-
I see no difference either. I remember Spinksy going through a rough patch and a small section of the Holte End took great pleasure in screaming 'Spinks you're useless' every time he touched the ball. What was shall ever be, seats or no seats.
-
I don't remember it being any different. If players were continually shite they got dogs abuse from some fans. It's part of football.
But the gulf has widened due to the fact a poor player can still pick up more a week than most of us earn in a year.
-
Maybe it's because the players appear to care less these days and show no loyalty to clubs.
-
I don't remember it being any different. If players were continually shite they got dogs abuse from some fans. It's part of football.
But the gulf has widened due to the fact a poor player can still pick up more a week than most of us earn in a year.
But players still got stick in the past. It's hardly a new thing.
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
-
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
Oh, I do. We finished bottom of the old Division One, with a lot of kids in the side. It was pretty grim. And we've had bad patches before where we were in danger. That first season back in Division One, then 1994-95, 2002-03. There are probably others.
Maybe I'm just unlucky to have the nutters congregate around me at the moment. Not really sure, hence the OP.
-
Whilst not condoning this behavious (some of it makes me cringe), I thnik it's because the modern day footballer is so far detatched from your average supporter.
When I started going down, I could cycle to Bodymoor Heath is the school holidays and watch them train up close, then wait for them to drive out in their Rovers and grab some autographs, with most of them happy to stop and chat. Nowadays everything is fenced off so you feel miles away from them, then if they do stop in their Audi Q7's or brand new Range Rovers you are lucky if they bother to make eye contact with you as they give their autograph.
When they earned a reasonably moderate wage back in the day, I could forgive almost anything on the pitch because they were my heroes and were doing something I could aspire to, but they were also regulay guys. Nowadays the first sight of a mis-placed pass or a half-hearted attempt to win the ball and my first thought is nearly always 'that twat earns in a week what I earn in 3 years, and is doing something I'd do for free', maybe a lot of people think the same.
Perfectly put. Sums in all up for me. How much was a player earning a week on average when we won the cup in 1994? 3-6k at the most maybe. It was high then but considering its only a short career and they woild need some money to help them with their future then fine. But now, we have shite players earning millions sitting on the bench.
-
It does seem to happen more recently but surely a big part of it has been just pure frustration with our predicament. This is further exacerbated by footballers being far harder to warm to than in the past.
-
Have a look at Dave Woodhall's book that mentions the vile abuse that Joe Mercer received, not to mention being pelted with rubbish.
-
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
Oh, I do. We finished bottom of the old Division One, with a lot of kids in the side. It was pretty grim. And we've had bad patches before where we were in danger. That first season back in Division One, then 1994-95, 2002-03. There are probably others.
Maybe I'm just unlucky to have the nutters congregate around me at the moment. Not really sure, hence the OP.
Off the top of my head I don't remember us being on the end of some of, if not the most humiliating defeats in the club's history in 86-87 though. That's what we've had to endure this season. So for me, so far, this is the worst season ever. We're not down yet and we can still stay up. So all's not lost, yet.
-
I agree with your post Chris and to be honest I get more annoyed with mindless Villa fans these days than opposition fans. Some of the abuse Bannan has been getting from the stands is inexcusable regardless of how much money he earns.
-
Off the top of my head I don't remember us being on the end of some of, if not the most humiliating defeats in the club's history in 86-87 though. That's what we've had to endure this season.
That's a fair point, although the abuse was going on well before Chelsea away.
-
The same Mr Bannan who is barred from the Belfry Golf Course for continually driving his golf buggy onto the tees?
After repeated requests from the green keepers not to do this he came out with the Do you know who i am line.
He was barred on the spot. Arrogance has taken over in football, to much money for doing fuckall. It is a disgrace.
Barry fucking Bannan is not fit to lace a proper footballers boots. Fuck me, i bet Mr Cowans cringes at some of these tossers.
-
Off the top of my head I don't remember us being on the end of some of, if not the most humiliating defeats in the club's history in 86-87 though. That's what we've had to endure this season.
That's a fair point, although the abuse was going on well before Chelsea away.
We were humiliated before the Chelsea game as well. The Everton game in August was embarrassing.
-
The same Mr Bannan who is barred from the Belfry Golf Course for continually driving his golf buggy onto the tees?
After repeated requests from the green keepers not to do this he came out with the Do you know who i am line.
He was barred on the spot. Arrogance has taken over in football, to much money for doing fuckall. It is a disgrace.
Barry fucking Bannan is not fit to lace a proper footballers boots. Fuck me, i bet Mr Cowans cringes at some of these tossers.
Not every player is like Bannan though. There were plenty Big Time Charlie's back in the day as well.
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
We spent two years in division three in the 70s, we've been much worse. We've got the basis of a half decent side but they desperately need some help.
-
Thing is players also get way over the top adulation when things are going well. It's complete extremes and we are unfortunately at the wrong end of that extreme where there is now just a bitter taste in everything we try and do. It's spilling over to the fans who are venting at the players and at each other. Then, as has been pointed out, the obvious bone of contention is the wage and lifestyle gap that is wider than it ever has been between between regular working folk and PL footballer. What we are seeing is the very worst of what it is like to be on a massive decline and everyone pushing panic buttons.
-
We were humiliated before the Chelsea game as well. The Everton game in August was embarrassing.
Everton was poor, but we've had poor before, on too many occasions to count. The score might not have been as bad if Given hadn't dropped the ball into his own net for their second.
-
We're not down yet and we can still stay up. So all's not lost, yet.
[/quote]
No we're not, because its January and not May. But can you tell me anything, just anything (and this a sincere, genuine question), that leads you to believe that we will escape relegation?
-
I agree with your post Chris and to be honest I get more annoyed with mindless Villa fans these days than opposition fans.
I'm glad I'm not on my own on this one.
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
We spent two years in division three in the 70s, we've been much worse. We've got the basis of a half decent side but they desperately need some help.
I'm aware of that. I'm talking about the worst team I've ever seen. Division 3 days were before my time.
I have to disagree with you on your second point though. We haven't got the basis of a good team at all. We have the basis of a Championship side, and that's where we're heading unless something drastic changes.
-
We were humiliated before the Chelsea game as well. The Everton game in August was embarrassing.
Everton was poor, but we've had poor before, on too many occasions to count. The score might not have been as bad if Given hadn't dropped the ball into his own net for their second.
It wasn't poor, it was humiliating. It could and should have been 8 goals conceded that day. The writing was on the wall that day, but a lot of fans just wrote it off as a bad day at the office.
-
We're not down yet and we can still stay up. So all's not lost, yet.
No we're not, because its January and not May. But can you tell me anything, just anything (and this a sincere, genuine question), that leads you to believe that we will escape relegation?
[/quote]
At the moment no. Hopefully Lerner will come to his senses and sign a few players. If not the only other thing that will save us is if the teams below us capitulate. Can't see that at the moment either.
-
I used my brothers season ticket for the Southampton game, as he sits Trinity Rd, C5, so it's a better seat than mine in C8.
There were 3 blokes behind and from the moment the game started it was: 'How s**t we are' 'How s**t so and so is'.
Yes, they're allowed their opinions, but, they were taking so everyone had to hear.
Then one started going on about how great Ireland was (player not country) I just turned around and asked if he was having a f**king laugh,
"No, No" he said. He seemed surprised that anyone disagreed with him.
No, it didn't stop them talking s**t, but it wasn't as loud ::)
-
The same Mr Bannan who is barred from the Belfry Golf Course for continually driving his golf buggy onto the tees?
After repeated requests from the green keepers not to do this he came out with the Do you know who i am line.
He was barred on the spot. Arrogance has taken over in football, to much money for doing fuckall. It is a disgrace.
Barry fucking Bannan is not fit to lace a proper footballers boots. Fuck me, i bet Mr Cowans cringes at some of these tossers.
Not every player is like Bannan though. There were plenty Big Time Charlie's back in the day as well.
A lot less in number though. It seems to me that anybody who pulls on a Premier League shirt thinks that they are supreme to everybody else. By buying tickets and other merchandise, we, the fans pay your fucking ridiculously high wages you tossers. Give us some of the respect back that we give you. FFS. Oh, and a couple of visits to the local hospital around Christmas time to hand out a few gifts to poorly kids doesnt do it for me either. Give a weeks worth of your fucking wages to the kids parents so they can afford to live, you overpaid fucking useless wankers. Fuck me i am wound up today. Bollocks to the fucking lot of them. Don't know how they have the fucking nerve to put on a Villa shirt, i really dont.
-
There was a bloke who used to sit by my Dad in the 70's who was constantly saying how crap Gordon Cowans was!!!
So, even the best player to wear a Villa shirt, in my time, wasn't immune from it.
-
Even after the Chelsea defeat I was confident that with a bit of help from the purchase of just 2 or 3 players we'd be fine. They had to arrive Jan 1st. They didn't but we've picked up 2 more points than I thought we would this month so far and we're not in the bottom 3. So although I'm particularly sad today I'm not without hope that we'll scrape together enough points somehow to avoid going down.
This side is better than the '86 lot. Our decline has been far this time round, but to be European Champions in 82 and be relegated that quickly was a disgrace.
-
We're not down yet and we can still stay up. So all's not lost, yet.
No we're not, because its January and not May. But can you tell me anything, just anything (and this a sincere, genuine question), that leads you to believe that we will escape relegation?
[/quote]
As I've said many a time, if we're so terrible (and we are) and we're still not in the relegation zone why are all the teams below and around suddenly going to display top half form and overtake us? I'm not saying we haven't been shit, I'm saying that, despite the fact we've been shit we haven't been shit enough to be in the bottom 3. Therefore there are 3 teams that are 'really shit' below us. Everyone seems utterly convinced that QPR and Wigan are going to charge up the table but that we are completely incapable of the same. There's just no logic to it.
-
Everyone seems utterly convinced that QPR and Wigan are going to charge up the table but that we are completely incapable of the same. There's just no logic to it.
I suppose current form is a decent measurement of which direction teams are heading
In the last 4 games we've taken 2 points
Reading 9 pts
Wigan 4pts
QPR 5 pts
Newcastle have taken 1 point
Draw your own conclusions from that
-
Everyone seems utterly convinced that QPR and Wigan are going to charge up the table but that we are completely incapable of the same. There's just no logic to it.
I suppose current form is a decent measurement of which direction teams are heading
In the last 4 games we've taken 2 points
Reading 9 pts
Wigan 4pts
QPR 5 pts
Newcastle have taken 1 point
Draw your own conclusions from that
Conclusion/ We are fucked!
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
We spent two years in division three in the 70s, we've been much worse. We've got the basis of a half decent side but they desperately need some help.
In the year that we were relegated to Division 3 we were far worse than we are now and I don't recall players being overly abused, or if they were it was in a slightly good natured way since they had been crap for such a long time that we were well past anger, and it was more like just stating the bleeding obvious. It was probably because we had been appalling for such a long time that those of us supporters who were still left had a black but sort of good humoured air of resignation about events. In fact, so much so that I bought my first season ticket the following season. (I was young and optimistic then - although it did turn out that I was right to be)
It's also fortunate that those who complain today about lack of communication from the club weren't around then, since communication with fans hadn't been invented then, apart from some poor hack from the Birmingham Mail who had to find stories every week from somewhere.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
-
It's always been there as long as I can remember. I don't like it when the abusers take no account of young children sitting around them. And I do object to posters on here using words like c*** to describe our players or manager.
-
The same Mr Bannan who is barred from the Belfry Golf Course for continually driving his golf buggy onto the tees?
After repeated requests from the green keepers not to do this he came out with the Do you know who i am line.
He was barred on the spot. Arrogance has taken over in football, to much money for doing fuckall. It is a disgrace.
Barry fucking Bannan is not fit to lace a proper footballers boots. Fuck me, i bet Mr Cowans cringes at some of these tossers.
Not every player is like Bannan though. There were plenty Big Time Charlie's back in the day as well.
A lot less in number though. It seems to me that anybody who pulls on a Premier League shirt thinks that they are supreme to everybody else. By buying tickets and other merchandise, we, the fans pay your fucking ridiculously high wages you tossers. Give us some of the respect back that we give you. FFS. Oh, and a couple of visits to the local hospital around Christmas time to hand out a few gifts to poorly kids doesnt do it for me either. Give a weeks worth of your fucking wages to the kids parents so they can afford to live, you overpaid fucking useless wankers. Fuck me i am wound up today. Bollocks to the fucking lot of them. Don't know how they have the fucking nerve to put on a Villa shirt, i really dont.
I have seen Mr Cowans cringe at the carry on of the first team squad. A player refused to have his picture taken with a young lad. Gordon Cowans came over an apologised to the father of the child and said there was nothing he could do and it would not be well received if he asked that player to pose for picture. I could name the player but it would make no difference as I would imagine 90% of the first team squad would react in the same way.
They are a million miles away from the fans and that is the way it is now and it is not going to change. This distance also explains why we are more likely to turn on them more easily. If they do not bond with us then we do not bond with them.
John Deehan used to come and present medals for our team at the end of the season. It would probably cost 5K to get Barry Bannan for the night. John Gidman used to watch our games on a Sunday as they were near his house. I imagine DB would have to be carried down on a sedan chair if the same was to happen.
My heart would burst with pride watching Chris Nicholl, Tony Morley or Paul McGrath wearing a Villa shirt. I purse my lips every time I see Stephen Ireland lining out in the shirt. 8K a day? If I had the money I would pay the f*cker 8K a day to stay away from VP. We are merely consumers in much the same way as it is with many things in society.
Anyway there you go. One of the most disappointing nights I have had as a Villa fan...and God knows I have seen some shite.
-
I don't remember it being any different. If players were continually shite they got dogs abuse from some fans. It's part of football.
Totally. I remember shouting dogs abuse at Curbishley in a game at Luton many moons ago because he was cack and looked about as interested as Ireland on Prozac. Another Villa fan told me to lay off him and my response was "I pay my money and his wages and if he's shit and not trying I'm entitled to tell him to buck his ideas up" followed by by some advice on sex and travel.
I also recall Vowden, Tiler, Graydon, Hamilton, Robson, McNaught, the entire 1986 team, and many others since, getting stick from the crowd.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
-
It's also fortunate that those who complain today about lack of communication from the club weren't around then, since communication with fans hadn't been invented then, apart from some poor hack from the Birmingham Mail who had to find stories every week from somewhere
Have to disagree. I think there's a huge difference between "communication" from the club and PR releases from the club.
Nowadays we all know how to get hold of tickets, all the deals being offered by the club, the merchandise available and showbiz-style kit launches. We're a million miles from the old days of poor marketing and badly run ticket offices ( Ray Fairfax being the wonderful exception). Krulak played at being the link between us and the club but he was just Lerner's PR mouthpiece and fucked as soon as there were real questions to be answered.
I don't think the club's communication has improved a jot since Lerner took over. If anything, the club's operations are even more murky and mysterious.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
He can only pass sideways and backwards. OPTA stats make him look like a superstar.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
I imagine he's now petrified of the reaction he'll get if tries a fancy pass and it goes wrong. I'm not his biggest fan, but how would you feel if, aged 21, 30,000 people called you a twat when you made a mistake at work?
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
I imagine he's now petrified of the reaction he'll get if tries a fancy pass and it goes wrong. I'm not his biggest fan, but how would you feel if, aged 21, 30,000 people called you a twat when you made a mistake at work?
It's not the fans fault he's so shit.
-
I think we should give the players a break and aim abuse at the fucking hopeless chairman
-
Bannon should never have played again after the drink driving offence - well thinking about it maybe he hasnt!
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
We spent two years in division three in the 70s, we've been much worse. We've got the basis of a half decent side but they desperately need some help.
I'm aware of that. I'm talking about the worst team I've ever seen. Division 3 days were before my time.
I have to disagree with you on your second point though. We haven't got the basis of a good team at all. We have the basis of a Championship side, and that's where we're heading unless something drastic changes.
League 1-2 standard I think apart from a couple of players. Like I've said before, any team in the Football League would of given us a game last night.
-
It's also fortunate that those who complain today about lack of communication from the club weren't around then, since communication with fans hadn't been invented then, apart from some poor hack from the Birmingham Mail who had to find stories every week from somewhere
Have to disagree. I think there's a huge difference between "communication" from the club and PR releases from the club.
Nowadays we all know how to get hold of tickets, all the deals being offered by the club, the merchandise available and showbiz-style kit launches. We're a million miles from the old days of poor marketing and badly run ticket offices ( Ray Fairfax being the wonderful exception). Krulak played at being the link between us and the club but he was just Lerner's PR mouthpiece and fucked as soon as there were real questions to be answered.
I don't think the club's communication has improved a jot since Lerner took over. If anything, the club's operations are even more murky and mysterious.
I agree that the deafening silence from Lerner is a problem, not least as it inevitably leads to fans assuming the worst case scenario in every instance. However, I was referring to the late '60's, early '70's when, for the most part the only communication to be had from the club was the hope of some interview puff with the manager if you were lucky, printed in the local rag on a Friday night. As I recall, PR from the club in any form was at best not thought to be important, or at worst, not even considered.
-
For me it's absolutely ridiculous when people turn up to a semi final and can't wait more than 2 minutes before indulging their personal agenda against Barry Bannan.
And i'm not really surprised that Bannan kept passing sideways given the stick he'd get if anything more ambitious went wrong.
In my view people should at least wait until a match is clearly lost before dishing out stick to our players.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
I imagine he's now petrified of the reaction he'll get if tries a fancy pass and it goes wrong. I'm not his biggest fan, but how would you feel if, aged 21, 30,000 people called you a twat when you made a mistake at work?
It's not the fans fault he's so shit.
I also think he's shit, as I said I'm not his biggest fan, but he plays for the Villa and I want him to improve. That won't happen when everyone audibly groans when his name is announced
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
Actually he statistically plays 7 a game and just under 5 of them are accurate, but don't let facts stop a good witch hunt.
-
I also think he's shit, as I said I'm not his biggest fan, but he plays for the Villa and I want him to improve. That won't happen when everyone audibly groans when his name is announced
My thoughts exactly. Give him the bird at full time if necessary, but not before.
-
I believe there is a distinct difference between the mentality of a fan who vents his spleen out of sheer frustration and those who seem to revel in the opportunity to sledge players constantly. Not just that, but as Chris was saying, broadcasting their views loudly to a captive audience. Personally, I do my upmost to keep my own counsel during games as screaming abuse does nothing for the players or the fans. When I watch the games I am prepared to cross all my fingers and toes, renounce all sin to the gods - whatever will help the overall cause for the Villa. I remember having a season ticket first season with the new Witton Douglas Ellis Lane (yes I know). The gentleman in front of me who used to bring his very charming daughter had a pathological hatred of Earl Barrett. Christ he pissed me off and there was no escape. I am not sure if his daughter was more uncomfortable with his ranting or my letching! Yes Ireland is an egg-headed, worthless retard. Bannan may be an arrogant dwarf, unaware of his shitness. Concrete Ron may have been shown by a division 4 player to be made of papier-mâché. Yes Clark is a flat footed dimwit and of course Lambert is a forlorn, mumbling, catastrophic decision maker but let's voice those opinions at the appropriate time if possible. God that felt good ;D
-
I also think he's shit, as I said I'm not his biggest fan, but he plays for the Villa and I want him to improve. That won't happen when everyone audibly groans when his name is announced
My thoughts exactly. Give him the bird at full time if necessary, but not before.
For cough.
Only closers get coffee and only winners get a turkey.
-
Bannon should never have played again after the drink driving offence - well thinking about it maybe he hasnt!
wow
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
Actually he statistically plays 7 a game and just under 5 of them are accurate, but don't let facts stop a good witch hunt.
You stick to watching Villa via an OPTA spreadsheet and I'll watch us with my eyes.
-
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
Oh, I do. We finished bottom of the old Division One, with a lot of kids in the side. It was pretty grim. And we've had bad patches before where we were in danger. That first season back in Division One, then 1994-95, 2002-03. There are probably others.
Maybe I'm just unlucky to have the nutters congregate around me at the moment. Not really sure, hence the OP.
Should sit in the Trinity. Won't hear a thing. Literally.
But as others have said, this has always gone on. I remember lots of it in the 90s.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
Actually he statistically plays 7 a game and just under 5 of them are accurate, but don't let facts stop a good witch hunt.
You stick to watching Villa via an OPTA spreadsheet and I'll watch us with my eyes.
That's it, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
Actually he statistically plays 7 a game and just under 5 of them are accurate, but don't let facts stop a good witch hunt.
You stick to watching Villa via an OPTA spreadsheet and I'll watch us with my eyes.
That's it, don't let facts get in the way of your argument.
Well if OPTA and co say he's a fine player who am I to argue!
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
It's all very good saying he keeps it simple, but when he makes a 10 yard pass sideways to Bennett who has two players near to him rather than a fairly simple 20 yard one to Lowton who was in a good 30 yards of space, that's what pisses me and, I think, everyone else off
-
The same Mr Bannan who is barred from the Belfry Golf Course for continually driving his golf buggy onto the tees?
After repeated requests from the green keepers not to do this he came out with the Do you know who i am line.
He was barred on the spot. Arrogance has taken over in football, to much money for doing fuckall. It is a disgrace.
Barry fucking Bannan is not fit to lace a proper footballers boots. Fuck me, i bet Mr Cowans cringes at some of these tossers.
Not every player is like Bannan though. There were plenty Big Time Charlie's back in the day as well.
A lot less in number though. It seems to me that anybody who pulls on a Premier League shirt thinks that they are supreme to everybody else. By buying tickets and other merchandise, we, the fans pay your fucking ridiculously high wages you tossers. Give us some of the respect back that we give you. FFS. Oh, and a couple of visits to the local hospital around Christmas time to hand out a few gifts to poorly kids doesnt do it for me either. Give a weeks worth of your fucking wages to the kids parents so they can afford to live, you overpaid fucking useless wankers. Fuck me i am wound up today. Bollocks to the fucking lot of them. Don't know how they have the fucking nerve to put on a Villa shirt, i really dont.
I have seen Mr Cowans cringe at the carry on of the first team squad. A player refused to have his picture taken with a young lad. Gordon Cowans came over an apologised to the father of the child and said there was nothing he could do and it would not be well received if he asked that player to pose for picture. I could name the player but it would make no difference as I would imagine 90% of the first team squad would react in the same way.
They are a million miles away from the fans and that is the way it is now and it is not going to change. This distance also explains why we are more likely to turn on them more easily. If they do not bond with us then we do not bond with them.
John Deehan used to come and present medals for our team at the end of the season. It would probably cost 5K to get Barry Bannan for the night. John Gidman used to watch our games on a Sunday as they were near his house. I imagine DB would have to be carried down on a sedan chair if the same was to happen.
My heart would burst with pride watching Chris Nicholl, Tony Morley or Paul McGrath wearing a Villa shirt. I purse my lips every time I see Stephen Ireland lining out in the shirt. 8K a day? If I had the money I would pay the f*cker 8K a day to stay away from VP. We are merely consumers in much the same way as it is with many things in society.
Anyway there you go. One of the most disappointing nights I have had as a Villa fan...and God knows I have seen some shite.
Good post John. Sid sounds like a top bloke.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
It's all very good saying he keeps it simple, but when he makes a 10 yard pass sideways to Bennett who has two players near to him rather than a fairly simple 20 yard one to Lowton who was in a good 30 yards of space, that's what pisses me and, I think, everyone else off
That's who people should trust their own eyes and not these daft OPTA style stats.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
This is what I mean with Bannan, he hits 40yard passes and he's hollywood, he keeps it simple and just keeps things ticking over he's incapable of passing forwards.
His "Hollywood passes" that actually go forward mostly end up going out of play. The only passes of his that reach a teammate are sideways and backwards. He's a waste of space, and the least said about his set pieces the better.
Actually he statistically plays 7 a game and just under 5 of them are accurate, but don't let facts stop a good witch hunt.
Agree, Paul e.
Isn't his pass accuracy around 79% this season?
I remember posters on this forum, and others, having a pop at Petrov for keeping it simple, making sure we kept the ball.
Not good enough for some though. 'Effing Petrov this, Effing Petrov that'. ' Only passes sideways and back', which, in fact, was a load of b****cks .
I wonder if Westwood will get the same?
Very rarely plays a long ball, but he very rarely gives the ball away.
Someone told me that his pass accuracy is in the upper 80's%.
-
Well if OPTA and co say he's a fine player who am I to argue!
Who said the stats say he's a good player? They just show that, more often or not, his long passes hit their target. It's a tad more reliable than relying on your memory. When you already think Bannan is shit, you're bound to remember the poor passes and forget the good ones.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
I imagine he's now petrified of the reaction he'll get if tries a fancy pass and it goes wrong. I'm not his biggest fan, but how would you feel if, aged 21, 30,000 people called you a twat when you made a mistake at work?
You're right.
These lads (not kids) are inexperienced, that's all.
They'll be frightened to try anything if the supporters constantly have a go at them every time they make a mistake.
To improve as a player you have to try new things out. If we, as supporters, encourage them the next time they get the opportunity
it might come off.
-
Should sit in the Trinity. Won't hear a thing. Literally.
Me and my merry band tried that for one game last season (v Sunderland) with a view to a possible permanent move. Where we sat it was just as bad.
-
i can remember scapegoats of old Aan Wright got a load of stick and Frank Caradous at times, both were decent players as well
but Bannans treatment is as bad a s anything i've seen at VP to be honest
He deserves it. He's pathetic.
I'd love to know what % of Bannan's passes were to Vlaar/Clark last night, he did seem truly incapable of passing forwards or more than ten yards, no wonder he was first to be subbed
I imagine he's now petrified of the reaction he'll get if tries a fancy pass and it goes wrong. I'm not his biggest fan, but how would you feel if, aged 21, 30,000 people called you a twat when you made a mistake at work?
It's not the fans fault he's so shit.
I also think he's shit, as I said I'm not his biggest fan, but he plays for the Villa and I want him to improve. That won't happen when everyone audibly groans when his name is announced
That's my point, we all know Bannan isint great and I don't have a problem people posting words to that effect but Ive seen fans run over when he's taking a corner to hurl abuse at him.
That is just not acceptable to do so to your own player
-
One of my first striking, and negative memories was how vitriolic the abuse players got for something I was unable to grasp. And that's a long time ago. You're probably right Chris, in the siting in a fixed position, something I've never done makes it seem worse.
And I suspect a lot of it is down to a power thing. In our everyday lives we're socially very limited to the personal abuse we can dish out to people in public (Internet excepted, of course). But in a crowd, folk can eff and blind the rich and possibly famous without any comeback and feel quite powerful.
-
Well if OPTA and co say he's a fine player who am I to argue!
Who said the stats say he's a good player? They just show that, more often or not, his long passes hit their target. It's a tad more reliable than relying on your memory. When you already think Bannan is shit, you're bound to remember the poor passes and forget the good ones.
And vice verse as well. Lots of fans remember remember the very occasional good pass then conveniently forget the dross before and after. He's hopeless, and no OPTA stats will convince me otherwise.
-
Well if OPTA and co say he's a fine player who am I to argue!
The problem is you slag him off saying he can't pass when it's proven that he can, the raw stats don't add any colour to it so yes some of his passing may be ineffective at times but you are adding a bias to your recollection because you've already decided he's shit and refuse to accept any evidence suggesting he isn't as bad as you're making out.
I watch the games (only on TV seeing as I don't live anywhere suitable to attending regularly) but I don't watch it waiting for a chance to tell everyone how shit our players are. They make mistakes and have bad games but very few of them are 'football league standard' as you constantly seem to insist.
I'd personally rather believe that 3-4 good signings would turn us into a decent top half side.
-
Last night one thing really caught my attention. Benteke failed to control a ball around the half way line and there was a huge collective groan from the Villa fans. Thinking about it, I'd say we've been doing it for ever. I guess it's just a 'Villa thing'.
-
I love the Villa and support the club through all the good and bad times, I start every game positive with a clean slate and look forward to seeing the lads try their very best to win every ball and die out there for my beloved club.
But they don't, so I start to see the failings and the gaps, the inept nature of the tactics and the things the players should be doing but are incapable or even worse are not interested in trying.
If you play for or manage Aston Villa we deserve the following four things:
1. You have to be good enough to face any team in the world and give a decent account of yourself.
2. You need to be fearless.
3. You need to believe completely in the ability of yourself and your team mates to win the game for 95 minutes.
4. You have to be willing to kill yourself trying.
Any player or manager showing these four traits can miskick a ball, make mistakes, have a couple of bad games and generally be seen as a decent human being with all the courtesy and respect that deserves.
Anyone else not showing these traits should not be playing for Aston Villa and deserves nothing from me and if they are out there and being utter rubbish then I will let them know what I think, I'm helping to pay their wages and they take my money and spunk it on flash cars, big houses and page 3 girls, they owe me, it isn't the other way around. They owe me big time.
They owe you too so sit silent if you want and whince when the fans around you turn negative and hostile but remember these people love the Villa just as much (or maybe more than) you do.
It isnt about power it is about frustration, passion and love for our once great club that is now a rich Yanks deductable tax loss system and a laughing stock to anyone who understands British football.
-
To be fair in the last 2 years we've seen 6 home wins in 30 games and only 28 goals. There aren't many other teams in the whole league with a worse home record than this, add it to players wages rising, ticket prices rising and supporters generally facing wage freezes or job losses then you're building up a lot of frustration.
-
It's nothing new, our home form has been poor for so long, it's surprising so many still turn up.
I put together the stats here: http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=44478.0
-
Add to that record defeat - followed by most embarrassing defeats in our 139 year history , they aint getting half the shit they should be.
Gutless bunch of wankers.
-
i have supperted villa over 60 years we have always had a moan we pay our money so we are entitled to moan by the way this is one of the worst sides i have seen at villa park for many a year
-
I agree it used to go on back then, but it seems so much worse these days.
Perhaps it just seems worse because there's no getting away from it in all-seated grounds or, like has been pointed out, the gulf between players and fans is now bigger than ever and so any negative feeling is magnified.
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
We spent two years in division three in the 70s, we've been much worse. We've got the basis of a half decent side but they desperately need some help.
In the year that we were relegated to Division 3 we were far worse than we are now and I don't recall players being overly abused, or if they were it was in a slightly good natured way since they had been crap for such a long time that we were well past anger, and it was more like just stating the bleeding obvious. It was probably because we had been appalling for such a long time that those of us supporters who were still left had a black but sort of good humoured air of resignation about events. In fact, so much so that I bought my first season ticket the following season. (I was young and optimistic then - although it did turn out that I was right to be)
It's also fortunate that those who complain today about lack of communication from the club weren't around then, since communication with fans hadn't been invented then, apart from some poor hack from the Birmingham Mail who had to find stories every week from somewhere.
Yes we had to rely on Dennis Shaw to find out what was going on at the Club.
-
i have supperted villa over 60 years we have always had a moan we pay our money so we are entitled to moan by the way this is one of the worst sides i have seen at villa park for many a year
I agree. We have a Chairman that's nowhere to be seen, a manager with seemingly no tactical idea, a club free falling into relegation and no chance of strengthening the squad that's desperately short on quality in midfield and defence. Add to that, several players with big time Charlie attitudes, that aren't fit to wear the shirt, earning vasts amounts of money and taking the piss out supporters that continue to shell out a small fortune in the vain hope that things are going to improve.
Fans are getting very angry.
-
i have supperted villa over 60 years we have always had a moan we pay our money so we are entitled to moan by the way this is one of the worst sides i have seen at villa park for many a year
I agree. We have a Chairman that's nowhere to be seen, a manager with seemingly no tactical idea, a club free falling into relegation and no chance of strengthening the squad that's desperately short on quality in midfield and defence. Add to that, several players with big time Charlie attitudes, that aren't fit to wear the shirt, earning vasts amounts of money and taking the piss out supporters that continue to shell out a small fortune in the vain hope that things are going to improve.
Fans are getting very angry.
And rightly so. You ask a Family who go to every home game, travel,tickets,shirts,programs and refreshments what percentage of their disposable income is spent watching the crap they are having to endure. People tend to react when they have to pay to have the piss taken out of them week after week. Do the players give a shit ? On the whole, i think not. And as for the Chairman, well, not a lot to say on that. It is bloody obvious.
-
The Villa were, for a time, the closest thing I had to a family in the late 70's and I have always felt my affiliation to this team more strongly than to most of my relations. This is a ridiculous state of affairs for a grown man but there it is.
To experience the year-on-year let down and decline; the loss of hope however ill-placed and devoid of a basis in reality; to finally have the finances to allow my son and myself to enjoy time together and to be served up with this junk makes me sick.
Shout at them? They should consider themselves lucky to be shouted at by me and thousands of others paying to watch them live out their dream of being a "professional" footballer earning a couple of years salary for the average person in a week.
Fuck 'em
-
Yeah F%ck 'em, see on Tuesday in the Holtel fella and we'll do it all again. x
-
The atmosphere sounded great last night on the whole.
You'll always get idiots in the crowd who seem to have a crusade against individual players, it's the same in any large crowd.
-
For all the stick Bannan got last night we looked a darn sight poorer after he went off. One of my criticisms of PL in the pub after was that he reacted to the crowds feeling toward Bannan and Bennett, took them off and destroyed any chance we had of gettin the ball to the shed load of forwards he now had on the field.
-
Something that arised out of last night's game for me, and to be fair has been bugging me for a while now.
Is the era of fans being complete arseholes to their own players during a game a relatively new thing or has it always gone on? It certainly seems much worse these days than it ever used to be. I'm all for giving players the bird at full time but during a game it seems counter-productive.
I'm particularly interested in the opinions of those who would use the seats even pre-Taylor report, back as far as when I first started going to games regularly in the mid-1980s.
There's not a game that goes by it seems when someone is barking abuse at our own players. The three arseholes in the row behind me last night seemed to be particularly targetting Bannan, Ireland and N'Zogbia. In the past, in the days of terracing it would be possible to move away, but thats not the case now, hence my interest in answers from people who've always used seats.
The scapegoating, the finger pointing, the barracking of our own players, it's always been the way at Villa Park when things seriously don't go our way. I can't stand it to be honest and fear it could destroy some of our younger players. I suppose the other way of looking at it is that it sifts out the weak from the mentally strong but it doesn't half make Villa Park a wretched, poisonous place to visit. Imagine trying to play football with a baying mob on your back?
-
Have a look at Dave Woodhall's book that mentions the vile abuse that Joe Mercer received, not to mention being pelted with rubbish.
I didn't know about this. I often wonder what Villa fans of that generation thought when genial Joe led Man City to the league title and so on not so long after his Villa stint?
-
Well if OPTA and co say he's a fine player who am I to argue!
Who said the stats say he's a good player? They just show that, more often or not, his long passes hit their target. It's a tad more reliable than relying on your memory. When you already think Bannan is shit, you're bound to remember the poor passes and forget the good ones.
And vice verse as well. Lots of fans remember remember the very occasional good pass then conveniently forget the dross before and after. He's hopeless, and no OPTA stats will convince me otherwise.
I'm with you on this one.
He is useless and should not be anywhere near a Villa team
-
Have we ever been this bad before though? Even in 86-87 I don't remember us being this appalling.
Oh, I do. We finished bottom of the old Division One, with a lot of kids in the side. It was pretty grim. And we've had bad patches before where we were in danger. That first season back in Division One, then 1994-95, 2002-03. There are probably others.
Maybe I'm just unlucky to have the nutters congregate around me at the moment. Not really sure, hence the OP.
Off the top of my head I don't remember us being on the end of some of, if not the most humiliating defeats in the club's history in 86-87 though. That's what we've had to endure this season. So for me, so far, this is the worst season ever. We're not down yet and we can still stay up. So all's not lost, yet.
6-0 at Forest, didn't exactly fill me with hope that things would work out ok. 3-0 home and away to Spurs, 5-0 at Southampton, 3-0 at Charlton and Everton, 4-0 at Arsenal, 4-1 at Chelsea, 4-2 at Watford, 4-1 at Norwich and the rest.
I would suggest your memory is a little clouded.
I am not sure of your age but I was a touch humiliated losing 3-0 away to Walsall in 1971.
We are going through a very bad spell but the most humiliating in our history, I do not think so.
-
Something that arised out of last night's game for me, and to be fair has been bugging me for a while now.
Is the era of fans being complete arseholes to their own players during a game a relatively new thing or has it always gone on? It certainly seems much worse these days than it ever used to be. I'm all for giving players the bird at full time but during a game it seems counter-productive.
I'm particularly interested in the opinions of those who would use the seats even pre-Taylor report, back as far as when I first started going to games regularly in the mid-1980s.
There's not a game that goes by it seems when someone is barking abuse at our own players. The three arseholes in the row behind me last night seemed to be particularly targetting Bannan, Ireland and N'Zogbia. In the past, in the days of terracing it would be possible to move away, but thats not the case now, hence my interest in answers from people who've always used seats.
The scapegoating, the finger pointing, the barracking of our own players, it's always been the way at Villa Park when things seriously don't go our way. I can't stand it to be honest and fear it could destroy some of our younger players. I suppose the other way of looking at it is that it sifts out the weak from the mentally strong but it doesn't half make Villa Park a wretched, poisonous place to visit. Imagine trying to play football with a baying mob on your back?
The players aren't delivering good enough performances that their massive salaries demand. Worse still, a few of them don't seem to give a shit. They have been humbled by an average 4th division team and they deserve every bit of criticism that comes their way. They need a rocket up their arses. They had a near full house and a platform to deliver the performances of their lives last night. And, despite a long run of wretched performances, the fans still turned up in force. However, our sorry bunch failed miserably, while a team that was assembled for £7,500 played like their lives depended on it and deservedly walked off with the spoils.
Finally, you say you hate scapegoating and finger pointing, yet you're doing exactly that with a section of supporters. It always seems to come back to the fans eventually.
-
Last night one thing really caught my attention. Benteke failed to control a ball around the half way line and there was a huge collective groan from the Villa fans. Thinking about it, I'd say we've been doing it for ever. I guess it's just a 'Villa thing'.
It's hardly just a 'Villa' thing. It happens at most clubs.
-
There was a lad in front of me trying to get the crowd going around the 70 minute mark, "come on, support the boys" that sort of thing. I remember thinking that it had got to the point where the players needed to give me something to get enthusiastic about. Different from outright abuse I suppose.