Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: brian green on January 10, 2013, 05:19:28 AM
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Because I have seen more change than many others I probably feel it more acutely but the present malaise through the club from the owner right down to the performances on the pitch seems rooted in the relationship which the club now has with its supporters.
Most areas of leisure and entertainment have been affected by american style marketing, detrimentally in my opinion. Football is no different and I think Villa is probably more typical than most of the effects of marketing of the game as a"product" because we are owned by an American and the people he has chosen to run the club reflect his ideas and his business background.
In short, we, the fans, have become regarded as a crop to be harvested. Money was put into the club by the present owner when he bought it from his predecessor and that capital investment was it. A farmer spends money on seed corn and fertilizer then stands back and awaits results. If the crop is patchy, he puts down a bit more seed or a bit more fertilizer and awaits the harvest.
Everything I see at Villa these days makes me feel less like a lifelong fan and more like a unit of consumption. I hate the endless mail shots to my home trying to sell me over priced tat. I hate the cost of the drinks. I hate cost of the food and its quality. I hate the cost of the programme and its banal content. I hate the volume of the public address system. I hate the stupid music played on the public address system. I do not want a flag. I do not want a scarf. I hate the stupid, deafening demands over the public address system to "get behind the lads in claret and blue". I hate the bloody stupid flag waving over the players. I hate the daft and meaningless giant plastic ball racing at half time. I hate the instant public address system at the full time whistle advertising programmes for sale or upcoming games when I want to cheer or applaud players who have done well. I hate the boring cliches which we are fed by successive managers about bad performances. I hate players who are playing badly feeding puffs to the tabloids in order to polish their own tarnished reputations on the advice of their agents. I hate the wall of silence which surrounds the club on matters which really are important to us like are we going to buy in players or not, what exactly is wrong with Richard Dunne, why is Ron Vlaar out for twelve games and counting, what is happening to Makoun, why did we roll over and let Martin O'Neill take us to the cleaners, why does Paul Lambert look so bored every time we take a battering. The list of things a loyal fans wants to know goes on and on but all we get are free flags and adverts for upcoming games.
I want to get back to the way it used to be when we were a family, a tribe, an army of claret and blue who just wanted to see games of football on our ground in Aston. A family with an unbreakable, unshakeable bond with each other and the club, not a herd of flag waving, brain dead consumers to be sold rubbish (including the football) and to keep coming back regardless of how we feel about the treatment we get.
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Its not the Villa its society in general, people accept it because they expect it. Its normal to be treated as a consumer these days and soon, if not already, kids will grow up knowing no different. The past isnt coming back. What you need is a tardis. If you find one will you give me a shout please.
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Bang on the nail this,any chance you could forward it to the club?
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Very good article - forward it to Lerner...
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I couldn't agree more. That's why I don't go anymore.
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I'm surprised that you don't like the programme. It has excellent content, is well produced and is highly rated in the whole of English football. Can't see what is wrong with the giant plastic balls either. It is a far cry from the days of the band that used to play at Highbury at half time, I know, but they are trying to create some interest. Last week, for example, they had a Villa supporter in one ball and an Ipswich fan in the other.
However, the wall of silence that you refer to with regard to the fitness of certain players and many other things really gets my goat. How many times do you find yourself talking to someone and saying 'does xxx still play for us?' Somebody is paying these people. Look how the Poison Dwarf was so evil that he spent so much money then didn't select players because he had fallen out with them over petty matters. I am beginning to think Lambert is no better. Gregory managed to devalue Stan Collymore from £7m to nothing by not promoting him
after he didn't turn up for that Fulham game. That is our resources they are messing about with. They are supposed to be managers and that should have a capital M. Manage the situation.
The fact that Lerner never speaks up totally pisses me off and always has. I believe in the
motto 'beware the silent man and the dog that doesn't bark.'.
The prices that we pay to get in are also a major issue with me.
If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an
example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's EDIT one week's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
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Showing your age Brian because i think i might beat you on the time clock, i hear our wonderful away supporters and wonder what drives them on because it certainly isn't entertainment. Sometimes i think it might be better if gates dropped away dramatically to indicate to Lerner that even loyal fans can turn off. Sixty three years since i attended my first game and Ray Graydons penalty at wembley and Peter Mac and J Dixon lifting the cup are my highlights, i was over here when we conquered Europe.
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I started in early 57 and agree with almost everything you have typed Brian. I did not like, for instance ,the way the club treated John Lerwill
just because he had an opinion which differed from their point of view. I would hate to work for that type of administration although I have had to in the past before I took early retirement.
Its different for the younger supporters because they have been brought up on this way of doing things and it will not be changing in the future as far as I can see. And as many of them spend the whole 90mins playing with their mobile phones without watching the match do they really care?
Regarding your third paragraph Aston Villa as it is now could be compared to Erskine Caldwells great novel Tobacco Road. Each season we expect a good harvest to keep us interested and fulfilled.
But it doesnt happen.
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Brian, I will write the following with the understanding that as someone of the same generation as you it is done respectfully and with the knowledge that you are fully entitled to your opinion. When you get to a certain age,attacks of Victor Meldrewisms become more regular and it is therefore easy to view 'the old days' through rose tinted glasses. As a counter to your litany of hatreds may I reflect on match day experiences as they were?
Standing on terracing exposed to passive smoking, the elements and poor viability of the pitch, catering that was at best basic and at worse unfit for human consumption, non existent pre match hospitality, being treated generally not as a valued customer but as an inconvenient by-product of a football match, the threat of hooliganism ( albeit a rare occurrence at Villa Park), no contact at all from the football club save from a ghost written message from the Manager in the programme.
I go to the Villa because I am a supporter, not a follower, and for me, it is an extension of a family tradition as my long departed Dad took me. My son,who has been a season ticket holder since he was 6, enjoys the pre match lunch in the Holte Suite whilst watching the televised live game, is able to enjoy the match in safety and comfort and likes ( as every 13 year old would) the fact he gets an autographed Christmas card from his heroes. For me, I like the fact that the ticket office staff are engaging and genuinely interested if I renew my season ticket and I know my feedback, when things have not being right,has been acted upon. If, and this is always the constant, performances on the pitch were better then I would say my match day experience would be very good value for money.
I would agree Brian that there is a malaise around Villa Park but I do think that this is correlated with results. Irritating details are forgiven if the team is 4 - 0 up and playing well.
Here's hoping you have not completely lost your Villa mojo Brian and that the Victor that is part of all of us over 50's is soon sitting in the comfortable chair in the garden shed of happiness.
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Good read Brian. I find the lack of information around Vlaar particularly galling myself, this is the information that relates to what we really care about, the team.
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Great post Brian.
Some great points in there but I agree most with the 'wall of silence' regarding obvious issues with players we are paying a kings ransom to sit on their fat backsides and our owner's apparent indifference to all of us.
This is the first season I haven't had a season ticket in 35 years, last season did me in and there seems a deep-rooted terminal problem with our football club now that no manager can seem to get to the bottom of, whatever playing policy he chooses as his 'project'. (god I hate that term)!!!!
What hurts me most of all is that my beloved Aston Villa have become somewhat of a joke in the wider football world of today (rewind the media from yesterday and the reaction from Bradford) and so totally insignificant that the days of 'proud history, bright future' seem a lifetime ago.
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Brian, I will write the following with the understanding that as someone of the same generation as you it is done respectfully and with the knowledge that you are fully entitled to your opinion. When you get to a certain age,attacks of Victor Meldrewisms become more regular and it is therefore easy to view 'the old days' through rose tinted glasses. As a counter to your litany of hatreds may I reflect on match day experiences as they were?
Standing on terracing exposed to passive smoking, the elements and poor viability of the pitch, catering that was at best basic and at worse unfit for human consumption, non existent pre match hospitality, being treated generally not as a valued customer but as an inconvenient by-product of a football match, the threat of hooliganism ( albeit a rare occurrence at Villa Park), no contact at all from the football club save from a ghost written message from the Manager in the programme.
I go to the Villa because I am a supporter, not a follower, and for me, it is an extension of a family tradition as my long departed Dad took me. My son,who has been a season ticket holder since he was 6, enjoys the pre match lunch in the Holte Suite whilst watching the televised live game, is able to enjoy the match in safety and comfort and likes ( as every 13 year old would) the fact he gets an autographed Christmas card from his heroes. For me, I like the fact that the ticket office staff are engaging and genuinely interested if I renew my season ticket and I know my feedback, when things have not being right,has been acted upon. If, and this is always the constant, performances on the pitch were better then I would say my match day experience would be very good value for money.
I would agree Brian that there is a malaise around Villa Park but I do think that this is correlated with results. Irritating details are forgiven if the team is 4 - 0 up and playing well.
Here's hoping you have not completely lost your Villa mojo Brian and that the Victor that is part of all of us over 50's is soon sitting in the comfortable chair in the garden shed of happiness.
Very well argued, and an interesting read from both of you. I think I am planted firmly mid-way between the two viewpoints.
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If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
shit, that point has really hit home how they're overpaid and how we're just consumers now, if we leave, then the club don't care, as long as someone else shows up.
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I still love the Villa, more than I love my missus. But, I lost my appitite for it all when MON fucked about in Moscow. That showed the club doesn't give a fuck about the fans.
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Weirdly I agree with both of you in many ways, Brian and My Left Foot.
Thanks for an interesting read.
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I agree with most of your post Brian. Some of it is just the nonsense that comes from being part of the Premier League and modern football in general. Some of it is just down to the mind-blowing incompetency from the owner and his staff. The two things combine to produce something extremely unappealing. Talking to anoher H&Ver this morning, we both agreed that even watching the games is a chore that you feel compelled to do, rather than from any likely enjoyment to be had.
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I agree with most of your post Brian. Some of it is just the nonsense that comes from being part of the Premier League and modern football in general. Some of it is just down to the mind-blowing incompetency from the owner and his staff. The two things combine to produce something extremely unappealing. Talking to anoher H&Ver this morning, we both agreed that even watching the games is a chore that you feel compelled to do, rather than from any likely enjoyment to be had.
Yep it's funny, I'm going to Villa Park for the first time in ages on Saturday which I was looking forward to. It's costing £100 for ticket and travel, so it's a fair expense. Up to now I think my mind has been assuming we'll win and it'll be a great experience. However as the game draws close, the feeling of the match itself being a chore is starting to creep in.
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I'm a supporter and I support my club whoever is manager, owner, or who's playing for us. The current American approach and all the other periphery stuff is pretty much meaningless to me. However, I do like it that we are far more slick at our marketing than for years not that it's going to entice me to purchase any tat but I'm sure many are.
Sure, I'm pissed off with them at the moment like the rest of us. Get a few players in and sort the results out and all will be well again.
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The point about the Holte Suite is fair comment. You can take it or leave it but, for the fan who has to buy his own match tickets, what a set of great facilities we have. Years ago, I would have had several pints of Ansells Mild and a couple of cheese and onion rolls on the way to a game. Now there are fewer pubs and I drive to home games, a couple or three pints then a roast pork dinner for about £7 is great value. That side of the club is way ahead of most other clubs.
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After recent events in Russia, its possible that we may have seen the last of the Zorbs for a while
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Great thred and yes Brian you should send these comments to the club.
I am not sure My Left Foot read all of your post.
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I don't go in the Holte Suite very often. It's a nice place to have a drink and handy if you're sitting in the Holte End. It's a bit pricey if you was to go in every home game though. I went in before the Ipswich game as a one off to meet some family and after i'd got in and brought a pint i'd already spent over £7.
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Villa Park hasn't been the same since they stopped driving cars round the pitch at half time.
It's been downhill ever since.
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I don't go in the Holte Suite very often. It's a nice place to have a drink and handy if you're sitting in the Holte End. It's a bit pricey if you was to go in every home game though. I went in before the Ipswich game as a one off to meet some family and after i'd got in and brought a pint i'd already spent over £7.
If you were getting a programme anyway then it only really costs £1 to get in but if there's a family with one programme then it is expensive. There is the added advantage of going in after the game. There was a time where we had to tap on back doors of pubs to get a drink at 5 o'clock. Mind you, the beer tasted better for it and, when the doors officially opened, it lost its glamour.
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I don't go in the Holte Suite very often. It's a nice place to have a drink and handy if you're sitting in the Holte End. It's a bit pricey if you was to go in every home game though. I went in before the Ipswich game as a one off to meet some family and after i'd got in and brought a pint i'd already spent over £7.
If you were getting a programme anyway then it only really costs £1 to get in but if there's a family with one programme then it is expensive. There is the added advantage of going in after the game. There was a time where we had to tap on back doors of pubs to get a drink at 5 o'clock. Mind you, the beer tasted better for it and, when the doors officially opened, it lost its glamour.
Yeah i bought a programme with my entrance fee on Saturday so it did'nt seem that bad but normally i don't buy programmes. Being able to go back in after the game is an advantage, especially if you're not in a rush. What i tend to do if i'm planning to meet people in there is to get there a bit earlier than normal, have a pint in the Academy (which is free) then go in both the Holte Pub and Suite.
I think £3.20 a pint is a bit steep though. They could easily charge around £2.70 and still make a profit.
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It's pretty much impossible to get into the Holte Suite at half time now. They used to let everyone in but now since the Manu home game where a lot of of food was stolen they have restricted the numbers.
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It's pretty much impossible to get into the Holte Suite at half time now. They used to let everyone in but now since the Manu home game where a lot of of food was stolen they have restricted the numbers.
But the twats who nicked the food are probably first in the queue.
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It's pretty much impossible to get into the Holte Suite at half time now. They used to let everyone in but now since the Manu home game where a lot of of food was stolen they have restricted the numbers.
That's a real shame as it was an excellent place to go at half time.
I have mixed feelings on the opening post, because, as has been pointed out, although there is a lot of pain in the arse marketing around the modern game other things have improved. The point about the "wall of silence" about things that supporters feel is important is very well made though.
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In a funny way Brian and my left foot are both right. In the 70s and 80s fans were seen as mere cattle,being treated with disregard. Now were seen as sheep,being hawked all useless tat and crap for us to consume. It's just a sign of football moving more and more away from a sport and into a money consuming monster.
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Excellent thread and all salient points from
The fanbase are addicts and the suppliers can do what the hell they want to part them with their money. The addicts rightfully complain about many things but still need their fix. Rather like sourcing a meeting of Narcotics Anonymous for your drug deals.
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It's only natural, as we get older, to look back fondly on days of yore. The difficult bit is to work out how much of it is you changing, and how much is the world around you moving on, as it always does. In this case it's probably 50/50, we look back fondly on our younger days and our memories conveniently block out all the crap bits, and then look at all the crap bits of today and gloss over the improvements.
Football, like almost everything else, is expensive, over commercialised and increasingly cynical both on and off the pitch. It will take a shift in society as a whole before football does anything to rein thing in, there's just too much money involved.
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Because I have seen more change than many others I probably feel it more acutely but the present malaise through the club from the owner right down to the performances on the pitch seems rooted in the relationship which the club now has with its supporters.
Most areas of leisure and entertainment have been affected by american style marketing, detrimentally in my opinion. Football is no different and I think Villa is probably more typical than most of the effects of marketing of the game as a"product" because we are owned by an American and the people he has chosen to run the club reflect his ideas and his business background.
In short, we, the fans, have become regarded as a crop to be harvested. Money was put into the club by the present owner when he bought it from his predecessor and that capital investment was it. A farmer spends money on seed corn and fertilizer then stands back and awaits results. If the crop is patchy, he puts down a bit more seed or a bit more fertilizer and awaits the harvest.
Everything I see at Villa these days makes me feel less like a lifelong fan and more like a unit of consumption. I hate the endless mail shots to my home trying to sell me over priced tat. I hate the cost of the drinks. I hate cost of the food and its quality. I hate the cost of the programme and its banal content. I hate the volume of the public address system. I hate the stupid music played on the public address system. I do not want a flag. I do not want a scarf. I hate the stupid, deafening demands over the public address system to "get behind the lads in claret and blue". I hate the bloody stupid flag waving over the players. I hate the daft and meaningless giant plastic ball racing at half time. I hate the instant public address system at the full time whistle advertising programmes for sale or upcoming games when I want to cheer or applaud players who have done well. I hate the boring cliches which we are fed by successive managers about bad performances. I hate players who are playing badly feeding puffs to the tabloids in order to polish their own tarnished reputations on the advice of their agents. I hate the wall of silence which surrounds the club on matters which really are important to us like are we going to buy in players or not, what exactly is wrong with Richard Dunne, why is Ron Vlaar out for twelve games and counting, what is happening to Makoun, why did we roll over and let Martin O'Neill take us to the cleaners, why does Paul Lambert look so bored every time we take a battering. The list of things a loyal fans wants to know goes on and on but all we get are free flags and adverts for upcoming games.
I want to get back to the way it used to be when we were a family, a tribe, an army of claret and blue who just wanted to see games of football on our ground in Aston. A family with an unbreakable, unshakeable bond with each other and the club, not a herd of flag waving, brain dead consumers to be sold rubbish (including the football) and to keep coming back regardless of how we feel about the treatment we get.
The bits in bold I disagree with quite strongly. As others have said he game is changing and we need to keep up or risk being left behind.
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As others have said he game is changing and we need to keep up or risk being left behind.
To be honest, if "keeping up" means turning us into some sterile, corporate cash cow, claret and blue version of every other team in the premier league, I'd really rather we were left behind to our own identity. Old fool that I am
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
I don't remember that. What was it?
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
I don't remember that. What was it?
I think it was - and, seriously, I am not making this up, it happened - Chelsea Dagger by the Fratellis.
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
UTV!! ;D
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
I don't remember that. What was it?
I think it was - and, seriously, I am not making this up, it happened - Chelsea Dagger by the Fratellis.
Oh dear, i'm glad i can't remember it. That's what they play for the pissed up revellers at the darts nowdays.
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It's only natural, as we get older, to look back fondly on days of yore. The difficult bit is to work out how much of it is you changing, and how much is the world around you moving on, as it always does. In this case it's probably 50/50, we look back fondly on our younger days and our memories conveniently block out all the crap bits, and then look at all the crap bits of today and gloss over the improvements.
Football, like almost everything else, is expensive, over commercialised and increasingly cynical both on and off the pitch. It will take a shift in society as a whole before football does anything to rein thing in, there's just too much money involved.
Good points chris, I'm just glad I was around to see us win the league and European cup and the football of the 70s which I found so much exciting than the game of today .
The characters back then were great too, now football is all to much of a business and money has ruined the game , players agents etc on ridiculous wages and the big clubs getting richer .
I feel sorry for the younger generation of villa fans who may never get to experience the glory that we once enjoyed when we were truly a great footballing side.
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The programme is normally £3 for 76 pages, yet v Ipswich last week it was £3 for 24 fewer pages. To make up for the lack of editorial there was a double-sided poster stapled in, which is fair enough now and again, good for the kids no problem. But why insult us with a cover flash telling us the posters were "FREE"!
It's a bit like those rip-off "special" issues that were produced for the UEFA Cup games a few seasons ago where we were conned into paying more for fewer pages because the cover was printed on card!
Another thing. Has anyone been persuaded to buy a ticket for the Bradford game by the offer of a "Free Flag"? I don't have a problem with them giving out flags to those that want them when we walk in but does it need to be promoted in advance as if it'll attract more fans? Very small-time.
And if all the club can offer bitter drinkers in the ground (Trinity lower) is a CAN of John Smith's then the least they can do is cut their mark-up down to about 400%.
Brian also mentions the half-time testicle race. Not something I can get excited about one way or the other but it's harmless fun for those involved - or at least I've always thought it was!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20962906 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20962906)
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The relationship the club has with it's supporters and indeed the wider footballing world has certainly changed over the years.
Villa no longer has the aura of one of the great clubs. I was listening to 606 the other night when an older sounding caller from one of smaller clubs rang in to say he hoped his team would draw one of the big teams like ArsenL or Villa. It is only people of a certain age that would say that.
I think this attitude is reflected amongst our own support. Us older supporters yearn for a time when villa were a big enough draw in themselves, without plastic marketing and tat. We look back to when the name itself bought respect from the opposition regardless of the division we played in. A football annual I had in the early 70s had it right when villa were described as aristocrats.
At this time we also have to recognise the financial bond between the club and it's supporters. Thousands of supporters bought shares and gave their services to renovate the ground, simply to keep the club going. The fight from the third division to winning the European Cup was achieved through the united efforts of the club and it's fans, often in disagreement as witnessed by the mass turnouts at shareholder meetings, but always with passion. Can you imagine how Lerner would react to having thousands of people waiting to tell him exactly how they felt about the current situation. I'm sure HDE never enjoyed it, but he had to hear it directly even if he didn't listen"
Now, in the premier league era, fans are customers. I think the change is more poignant for some supporters such as myself as we see the aura of the club diminished through changes to the stands, sinking down the league pecking order and not being able to compete with the best and no longer having that key ownership in the club.
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As a chairman of the Italian fansclub I have to disagree with the author of the thread.
Brian, I can assure to you that the Villa have a fantastic relationship with their fans.
Courtesy of the fantastic job done by Alan Perrins, responsible of the Supporters Clubs Liason, we feel as a part of a family at Villa.
We had several times the opportunity to visit Villa Park.
(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4799/img2781gyp.jpg)
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3576/img2754h.jpg)
We also had the occasion to dinner with the heroes that lift the EWC in 1982.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/107/img2798e.jpg)
Every season we can vote a player to which deliver the player of the year's award.
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/6964/005peh.jpg)
Not only, but we even had the opportunity to play on the sacred turf seeing our names on the board.
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3079/img7791h.jpg)
(http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/569/img7812a.jpg)
So, sorry to disagree, but I'm convinced that the Villa may be not currently the best team on the pitch but surely it's the best club of the world as fas as the relationships with its supporters are concerned.
Form is temporary, class is permanent! ;)
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
We had that once, about five years ago.
There was so much uproar, they stopped it. It was horrendous.
I don't remember that. What was it?
I think it was - and, seriously, I am not making this up, it happened - Chelsea Dagger by the Fratellis.
Oh dear, i'm glad i can't remember it. That's what they play for the pissed up revellers at the darts nowdays.
I don't think there's been a conscious decision not to do it any more, we just don't score any goals at home! ;)
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I don't think there's been a conscious decision not to do it any more, we just don't score any goals at home! ;)
Mixing threads, maybe they only do it when Gabby scores!
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As others have said he game is changing and we need to keep up or risk being left behind.
To be honest, if "keeping up" means turning us into some sterile, corporate cash cow, claret and blue version of every other team in the premier league, I'd really rather we were left behind to our own identity. Old fool that I am
There doesn't seem to be much class in the lower leagues either. Dumbing down slightly as a modern incarnation of a consistently top club to remain among the big boys would be preferable to sinking down the leagues.
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As others have said he game is changing and we need to keep up or risk being left behind.
To be honest, if "keeping up" means turning us into some sterile, corporate cash cow, claret and blue version of every other team in the premier league, I'd really rather we were left behind to our own identity. Old fool that I am
There doesn't seem to be much class in the lower leagues either. Dumbing down slightly as a modern incarnation of a consistently top club to remain among the big boys would be preferable to sinking down the leagues.
There wasn't much class coming from Bradford on Tuesday night. Their supporters were great, but the club itself was every bit as horrible as anything in the Premier League.
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After recent events in Russia, its possible that we may have seen the last of the Zorbs for a while
I don't think we have to worry too much about them veering off course and down a mountain at VP.
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If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
shit, that point has really hit home how they're overpaid and how we're just consumers now, if we leave, then the club don't care, as long as someone else shows up.
But that's just the problem these days, a number of clubs don't need gate money anymore or at least it is not their most significant revenue stream and therein lies the fundamental problem. Sky's massive investment in UK football has made the paying punter who goes to the matches so much more insignificant. It says it all when next season every club in the Premiership could knock £32 off the price of an adult matchday ticket and still be no worse off than today such is the hike in TV revenue from next season.
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I think £3.20 a pint is a bit steep though. They could easily charge around £2.70 and still make a profit.
They could do a lot of things and still make a profit.
Hands up who thinks ticket prices will go up next season, even though the club will get an extra 50% or so from TV. I'd bet my house on it.
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The point about the Holte Suite is fair comment. You can take it or leave it but, for the fan who has to buy his own match tickets, what a set of great facilities we have. Years ago, I would have had several pints of Ansells Mild and a couple of cheese and onion rolls on the way to a game. Now there are fewer pubs and I drive to home games, a couple or three pints then a roast pork dinner for about £7 is great value. That side of the club is way ahead of most other clubs.
DCF please let me know where you are managing to get a "couple or three pints and a roast pork dinner for £7" please, certainly nowhere on AVFC's premises mate!!
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Beer has been overpriced for years, but at least a couple of years ago you had people walking around with draught kegs on their backs. Now you pay £3.50 for a can of John Smiths. I am on your side Brian.
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Beer has been overpriced for years, but at least a couple of years ago you had people walking around with draught kegs on their backs. Now you pay £3.50 for a can of John Smiths. I am on your side Brian.
I take my own in.
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I tell you what grinds my gears (to keep in the spirit of this thing).
-The official website referring to Old Trafford as the Theatre of Dreams
-Faulkner and co placing any kind of importance on what Fergiescum says
-The same ginner telling us "There is nothing you can do when United (Is that Newcastle, Leeds or Dundee???) come in for one of your players." The club actually seemed HAPPY that Ashley Young had got his 'dream' move.
It comes from the top down. If our own management see us as small fry, what chance do we have.
This constant reference to 'Lambert's Lions' on the OS is starting to grate too. Lambert's Lemmings, more like.
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
Oh god there is literally nothing worse. I often wonder if clubs will eventually start to play crowd noise over the speakers to give the impression of an atmosphere. I wouldn't put it past someone like Bolton.
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The OS is a disgrace, most of the time it reads like it has been written by PR of the opposing club.
I think it was last season they described Spurs as "The aristocrats from the capital". Bunch of tossers.
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Beer has been overpriced for years, but at least a couple of years ago you had people walking around with draught kegs on their backs. Now you pay £3.50 for a can of John Smiths. I am on your side Brian.
We still have people walking around with the kegs on their backs! I don't venture out of the Holte Lower so maybe they just do it for the one stand but I've definitely got beer off one of those at the majority of the games I've attended this season.
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
Oh god there is literally nothing worse. I often wonder if clubs will eventually start to play crowd noise over the speakers to give the impression of an atmosphere. I wouldn't put it past someone like Bolton.
Arsenal already have.
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I think £3.20 a pint is a bit steep though. They could easily charge around £2.70 and still make a profit.
They could do a lot of things and still make a profit.
Hands up who thinks ticket prices will go up next season, even though the club will get an extra 50% or so from TV. I'd bet my house on it.
You assuming we are still in this league next season
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We should get that bloke and his bugle back on the tannoy. It was ace against Deportivo or Celta Vigo (forgotten which it was).
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The time to despair is when we have music after a goal.
Oh god there is literally nothing worse. I often wonder if clubs will eventually start to play crowd noise over the speakers to give the impression of an atmosphere. I wouldn't put it past someone like Bolton.
Arsenal already have.
Bloody hell.
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A great post Brian and i agree with all your points. I hope your views are passed on to the club, it would be interesting to hear its response.
However, it was no different back in the old days. I can remember on one occasion in the early seventies the half time 'entertainment' consisted of thousands of Milky Bars being chucked to us by promotions girls from the back of a flat bed truck, most of them landing on the piss streaked terracing, this in itself sounds like some kind of Alan Partridge style nightmare.
I particularly dislike the over amplified cajoling on the tannoy imploring us to 'get behind the boys in claret and blue' and 'lets hear it for Aston Villa', its annoying and embarrassing, the crowd at a place like Villa Park should be left to generate its own atmosphere. Also, would it be too much to ask that people buying stinking over priced junk food in polystyrene trays consume this stuff in the concourse, not while viewing the game.
Oh, and that Aston Villa record, please stop playing that witless horrible dirge. Rant over. For now.
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As My Left Foot more or less points out, I'd say the clubs have always exploited the loyalty factor of football supporters. In the past it was treating us like cattle, and providing only very basic facilities, knowing we would still turn up in great numbers, especially as it was relatively cheap. These days it's in the form of massive overcharging for pap, which too often includes the stuff served up on the pitch. The "rational consumer" factor has largely prevailed over the loyalty factor in my case as I've got older, and as football has offered reduced value for money, but there's still plenty for whom it hasn't.
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Frustrating for me is after the Liverpool game there was alot of PR about how well we were doing coming from the club their was articles with PF chatting out the clubs direction..since then we have been pretty much shit and all we have gotten is the usual OS PR guff ..
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The point about the Holte Suite is fair comment. You can take it or leave it but, for the fan who has to buy his own match tickets, what a set of great facilities we have. Years ago, I would have had several pints of Ansells Mild and a couple of cheese and onion rolls on the way to a game. Now there are fewer pubs and I drive to home games, a couple or three pints then a roast pork dinner for about £7 is great value. That side of the club is way ahead of most other clubs.
DCF please let me know where you are managing to get a "couple or three pints and a roast pork dinner for £7" please, certainly nowhere on AVFC's premises mate!!
I misled you. The £7 applies to the bit after 'then'; i.e. the pork dinner.
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As My Left Foot more or less points out, I'd say the clubs have always exploited the loyalty factor of football supporters. In the past it was treating us like cattle, and providing only very basic facilities, knowing we would still turn up in great numbers, especially as it was relatively cheap. These days it's in the form of massive overcharging for pap, which too often includes the stuff served up on the pitch. The "rational consumer" factor has largely prevailed over the loyalty factor in my case as I've got older, and as football has offered reduced value for money, but there's still plenty for whom it hasn't.
Goodness me you can have a conversation with your left foot ? That's amazing - oh I see now!
As it happens I agree with you both .
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The point about the Holte Suite is fair comment. You can take it or leave it but, for the fan who has to buy his own match tickets, what a set of great facilities we have. Years ago, I would have had several pints of Ansells Mild and a couple of cheese and onion rolls on the way to a game. Now there are fewer pubs and I drive to home games, a couple or three pints then a roast pork dinner for about £7 is great value. That side of the club is way ahead of most other clubs.
I misled you. The £7 applies to the bit after 'then'; i.e. The pork dinner.
DCF please let me know where you are managing to get a "couple or three pints and a roast pork dinner for £7" please, certainly nowhere on AVFC's premises mate!!
Did you get stuffing as well?
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The point about the Holte Suite is fair comment. You can take it or leave it but, for the fan who has to buy his own match tickets, what a set of great facilities we have. Years ago, I would have had several pints of Ansells Mild and a couple of cheese and onion rolls on the way to a game. Now there are fewer pubs and I drive to home games, a couple or three pints then a roast pork dinner for about £7 is great value. That side of the club is way ahead of most other clubs.
I misled you. The £7 applies to the bit after 'then'; i.e. The pork dinner.
DCF please let me know where you are managing to get a "couple or three pints and a roast pork dinner for £7" please, certainly nowhere on AVFC's premises mate!!
Did you get stuffing as well?
leave that that to the first team...
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Great post, Brian.
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If there's one bloke down there who knows his stuff, it is Rob Bishop. I think he would like to hear specifics about what is wrong with the programme.
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"Beer" (shit lager) was £3.60 at Bradford and programmes £4 - they were certainly making the most of it!
Every event venue overcharges for ale, but I thought this was taking the piss a bit. Were Bradford supporters paying the same in their parts of the ground?
Unrelated but, stood next to a Yank at Fulham away and he couldn't get over the way the Villa fans sang "spontaneously" throughout the game - it just doesn't happen at sports' arenas in the States he said. Even asked me "why aren't all those other guys singing?" Had to explain they were Fulham supporters. He joined singing about "Aston" as he insisted on calling us, and I felt a bit proud, while pointing out "we are The Villa"!
I hate all the organised shit that goes on as well, but it is definitely what a lot of punters (not necessarily "proper" supporters) expect in this super-duper, instant celebrity, over-sensationalised, shallow world that is 2013!
Give me a pint of Ansells Mild, a cheese and onion cob and a 1982 European Cup winning Aston Villa every time! ;-)
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Good points. Throw in all-seater stadia as well.
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Personally I think giving everyone a free flag to wave for a game against Bradford is a bit small time, and embarrassing for a live TV game
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Personally I think giving everyone a free flag to wave for a game against Bradford is a bit small time, and embarrassing for a live TV game
Especially against a side from much lower in league status. It is cringeworthy.
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It's a cup semi final and I'm sure we all want to get a good atmosphere going that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up. Villa Park under the floodlights, a full house raising the roof, these are the sort of nights I love and miss. I don't mind the free flags as it did look impressive last time against Blackburn and right now every little helps.
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Good post Brian, though I feel that the horse has firmly bolted on most of the issues you raise. Admittedly, there are certain things we as fans have less control over in this regard, in other areas, however, we can make an impact: don't buy the tat, don't buy the poor food and drink and, ultimately, don't attend the games if they induce such misery on almost every level. As for, to quote the current ludicrous buzz phrase, 'getting your Villa back', forget it.
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i think we can see where this is going, i was in chicago when the Ice Hokey team were in the finals best of 7 against Philidelphia, the wife of a friend said, do you think its a bad thing to get behinf the Blackhawks now, meaning she had not a clue that Chicago even had an ice hokey team before they were in the final, before they were projecting Go Blackhawks on the buildings, before every local radio and tv station were doing in depth stories on every member of the team.
Randy Venky thinks that is how you sell sport, that is what he knows.
His record would sugest that he is not that great at sport mangement
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If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
shit, that point has really hit home how they're overpaid and how we're just consumers now, if we leave, then the club don't care, as long as someone else shows up.
A short while ago I would have completely agreed with this point. However my wife bought me a copy of the secret footballer for Christmas, which I am still reading. Whoever he is points to the fact that most of the money in the game comes from Worldwide tv revenue (which I suppose anybody who subscribes to sky contributes to). He also argues that club owners are equally to blame as players for agreeing to the ludicrous wages they earn. When you look at it, it's tv that has brought about all the changes to the game that most of us dislike. The thing is though, I and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtel, so who is to blame ultimately for it?
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The only real gripe I have with the current board is that whilst there have been many fine initiatives, they haven't really been able to mobilise the vast numbers that follow Villa but don't - or have stopped - paying in on match day.
It has bugged me for a number of years that a club once admired for the numbers that showed up seems to have real problems filling what is now a modestly sized ground.
If there is one thing I expected from an American owner it was the ability to put bums on seats. For whatever reason it just hasn't happened. There seems to be a fair degree of good intention, and Villa seem to be better than most but there has been no real innovation nor anything that really captures the imagination or truly engenders the feeling that we are a part of the club.
Forty odd years ago being asked to show up with a paint brush to help spruce the place up seemed like a gift. That is what I call inclusion. Today, I am not in the slightest bit tempted to come out of my cave to wave a fucking flag around.
Now that may be me, and to an extent I'd have to accept that it is. But the journey out of the third division has always seemed much better than the destination we have been pissing around in since 1993.
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Football is a commodity to be sold to "fans" like any other form of entertainment. Fans as such are to be treated as consumers, people to be advertised to in order to take what cash they have. It's the same in society as a whole, people are supposed to be fragmented, atomised, split into groups such as consumers, commuters, home owners, scroungers, homeless etc. Thankfully most people still don't define themselves by how they're referred to on the news or treated by companies.
There's a very interesting article here about how the owners at PSG commercialised the club and it's an extreme example of what is happening across the board.
http://theclassical.org/articles/paris-is-earning (http://theclassical.org/articles/paris-is-earning)
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Brian, just wait until we start playing music every time we score next season...
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Brian, just wait until we start playing music every time we score next season...
It could be a long wait..............
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Its not the Villa its society in general, people accept it because they expect it. Its normal to be treated as a consumer these days and soon, if not already, kids will grow up knowing no different. The past isnt coming back. What you need is a tardis. If you find one will you give me a shout please.
Because I have seen more change than many others I probably feel it more acutely but the present malaise through the club from the owner right down to the performances on the pitch seems rooted in the relationship which the club now has with its supporters.
Most areas of leisure and entertainment have been affected by american style marketing, detrimentally in my opinion. Football is no different and I think Villa is probably more typical than most of the effects of marketing of the game as a"product" because we are owned by an American and the people he has chosen to run the club reflect his ideas and his business background.
In short, we, the fans, have become regarded as a crop to be harvested. Money was put into the club by the present owner when he bought it from his predecessor and that capital investment was it. A farmer spends money on seed corn and fertilizer then stands back and awaits results. If the crop is patchy, he puts down a bit more seed or a bit more fertilizer and awaits the harvest.
Everything I see at Villa these days makes me feel less like a lifelong fan and more like a unit of consumption. I hate the endless mail shots to my home trying to sell me over priced tat. I hate the cost of the drinks. I hate cost of the food and its quality. I hate the cost of the programme and its banal content. I hate the volume of the public address system. I hate the stupid music played on the public address system. I do not want a flag. I do not want a scarf. I hate the stupid, deafening demands over the public address system to "get behind the lads in claret and blue". I hate the bloody stupid flag waving over the players. I hate the daft and meaningless giant plastic ball racing at half time. I hate the instant public address system at the full time whistle advertising programmes for sale or upcoming games when I want to cheer or applaud players who have done well. I hate the boring cliches which we are fed by successive managers about bad performances. I hate players who are playing badly feeding puffs to the tabloids in order to polish their own tarnished reputations on the advice of their agents. I hate the wall of silence which surrounds the club on matters which really are important to us like are we going to buy in players or not, what exactly is wrong with Richard Dunne, why is Ron Vlaar out for twelve games and counting, what is happening to Makoun, why did we roll over and let Martin O'Neill take us to the cleaners, why does Paul Lambert look so bored every time we take a battering. The list of things a loyal fans wants to know goes on and on but all we get are free flags and adverts for upcoming games.
I want to get back to the way it used to be when we were a family, a tribe, an army of claret and blue who just wanted to see games of football on our ground in Aston. A family with an unbreakable, unshakeable bond with each other and the club, not a herd of flag waving, brain dead consumers to be sold rubbish (including the football) and to keep coming back regardless of how we feel about the treatment we get.
Oh come on!! Its not so bad, and a bit more entertaining than the other stuff happening on the pitch at the moment.
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Brian, just wait until we start playing music every time we score next season...
It could be a long wait..............
For the introduction of music or for a goal?
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The thing is though, I and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtel, so who is to blame ultimately for it?
I take your point robbo but I am serious about the Villa and utterly refuse to give my money to these bastards...
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The thing is though, I and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtel, so who is to blame ultimately for it?
I take your point robbo but I am serious about the Villa and utterly refuse to give my money to these bastards...
This
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"I can't emphasis enough how important it is to get the fans behind us next season."
Paul Faulkner 05/06/2012.
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I've been a season ticket holder for many years, but gave it up when they appointed McLeish. Not because he came from Bordsley Green, but it showed exactly the disregard the club had for the fans. Add also the the ludicrous kick off times to suit the arm chair fan, the stupidly high wages of arrogant, and the obnoxious multi millionaire footballers - enough was enough.
I've still watched the Villa, either down the pub on a dodgy satelitte channel or online at home. I love the Villa, and always will.
Despite the lack of season ticket I've taken the lad who is 6 to the home games this season against Everton, West Brom and Norwich. Despite not winning one of the games he knows the names of the players and wonders why Bannan can't pass the ball to one of his team mates. He has the huge Villa Badge poster on his bedroom door, the glow in the dark shirt, he goes to school in his Villa hat, Villa scarf and Villa coat. He tells his Man Utd supporting mate at school that 'I support the team my Dad supports, and we get to the games.'
After the League Cup Semi Final draw I took the gamble of buying us half season tickets, my Dad died before he had the chance to take me to Wembley, I wanted to take my lad to Wembley to see the Villa. The following day we surrendered to Chelsea in the most inept performance I have ever seen from a Villa team, we didn't go to the Spurs home game as we had a family party on the evening (stupid kick off time) but watched on tv at a relatives. The lad wasn't happy. We went to the Wigan game, full of anticipation and excitement, man and boy on our first season ticket experience. Again the players didn't turn up. For the Ipswich game I had to practically drag him out of the house to go to the game. "Why don't you want to go today mate?" was my question, his response "Dad, it's boring, I know we are rubbish, but the players don't even try hard" - Ok he's 6, and doesn't really get it, but to me it was heartbreaking. The matchday experience is something they talk about a lot at the Villa, and he knows that we have to lose to be able to enjoy winning. For Paul McGrath's sake though the Villa aren't making it easy for me are they?
Football these days is shit, we're not supporters, we're customers, the club will fleece every single penny they can out of us. Yes the ticket office staff are brilliant, yes the manager in my eyes is trying to go about things the right way but we really don't stand a chance of really doing anything other than win the league cup - and only then it is because the bigger teams than us aren't that bothered. (Remember when we were one of the bigger teams)
The best season I ever had following Villa was the season we got relegated, the away trips were superb, great laughs, and we made the best out of the situation we were in. I'm not a snob, I don't expect us to be a top club, I just want our owner to show a degree of consideration to the fans who fork out fortunes for the club. Comments above about the lack of information about players injuries etc are bang on. Vlaar, Dunne, Makoun to name but 3. I guess they're too busy sending us emails telling us about the club shop sale/ticket offers/programme sales etc.
Tomorrow, I'm concerned the lad won't want to go again. After the fucking shambolic performance at Bradford on Wednesday I'm not going to force him like I did either. Poor kid.
Still, I suppose Randy is ok though isn't he? after all he won't hurt a millionth of the hurt we all feel when we watch the shit served up by the players in recent weeks.
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If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
shit, that point has really hit home how they're overpaid and how we're just consumers now, if we leave, then the club don't care, as long as someone else shows up.
A short while ago I would have completely agreed with this point. However my wife bought me a copy of the secret footballer for Christmas, which I am still reading. Whoever he is points to the fact that most of the money in the game comes from Worldwide tv revenue (which I suppose anybody who subscribes to sky contributes to). He also argues that club owners are equally to blame as players for agreeing to the ludicrous wages they earn. When you look at iI and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtelt, it's tv that has brought about all the changes to the game that most of us dislike. The thing is though, , so who is to blame ultimately for it?
The people I know who are serious about sport are playing it not sitting on their arses watching it.
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If you take the price of a game at, say, £30 (and that is cheaper than most games) and add up what you spend you get £1350 over a 45 game season. Multiply that by 40 seasons as an example. You get £54000. Over that period you have managed to pay one month's wages for one player. Now see how insignificant you are!
shit, that point has really hit home how they're overpaid and how we're just consumers now, if we leave, then the club don't care, as long as someone else shows up.
A short while ago I would have completely agreed with this point. However my wife bought me a copy of the secret footballer for Christmas, which I am still reading. Whoever he is points to the fact that most of the money in the game comes from Worldwide tv revenue (which I suppose anybody who subscribes to sky contributes to). He also argues that club owners are equally to blame as players for agreeing to the ludicrous wages they earn. When you look at iI and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtelt, it's tv that has brought about all the changes to the game that most of us dislike. The thing is though, , so who is to blame ultimately for it?
The people I know who are serious about sport are playing it not sitting on their arses watching it.
A lot of people manage to do both.
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I believe Mr Lerner, at a time of financial uncertaintanty, saw the Villa as a copper-bottomed investment. Throw in the revenue generated by European qualification and/or an increase in money from the TV deals and Mr Lerner must've felt like Jack in the Giant's castle.
He may also have been thinking of the following:
1 A salary cap on player's earnings.
2 The formation of a European league.
3 A limitation of the spending of each club
4 Games to be played in other countries.
Whatever does happen in the future Mr Lerner has in the purchase of Aston Villa got himself a lovely little Milch Cow. (Does anybody know how much money he gets in interest and fees from the club?)
The one thing that is certain is that over the last few years the Villa have been subjected to managerial fuckwittery of the first water.
1 The Mon sacking/resignation pantomime.
2 The purchase of Ireland.
3 The Houllier debacle.
4 The purchase of Makoun.
5 Giving good money to Pires.
6 The General's selling of the youth as the way forward and his bizarre 4th place pronouncement.
7 The appointment of the dullard's dullard Mr McLeish.
8 The purchase of Hutton, Given and N'Zogbia.
9 Giving good money to Jenas.
Last year I went to the Stadium of Light and the only real moment of entertainment came when the Tumbling Bear shaped to shoot and a bloke behind me shouted 'Mind the windows'. I didn't go this year because I thought the money would be better spent on a take out for the family.
We have become the laughing stock and I'm only surprised that the Aston Vanilla line hasn't been trotted out again. My one consolation at the moment is the possibility of a Chris Smith vs. The Gnasher quotathon.
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The thing is though, I and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtel, so who is to blame ultimately for it?
I take your point robbo but I am serious about the Villa and utterly refuse to give my money to these bastards...
Me too.
I really miss seeing the rugby on terrestrial, and the cricket, but I ain't going to subscribe.
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The thing is though, I and everybody I know who is serious about sport, subscribes to sky or foxtel, so who is to blame ultimately for it?
I take your point robbo but I am serious about the Villa and utterly refuse to give my money to these bastards...
Me too.
I really miss seeing the rugby on terrestrial, and the cricket, but I ain't going to subscribe.
Me too since Boxing Day. I got up to watch the cricket on Friday before I remembered I would be watching it on bbc.co.uk
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I am totally law abiding in every other aspect of my life, but I have no compunction in avoiding giving Murdoch money by any means necessary.