Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: fredm on January 09, 2013, 10:03:03 AM
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Where were they last night? Not even on the bench. Anyone know?
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Where were they last night? Not even on the bench. Anyone know?
I was thinking the same. Would have been useful players to have on the pitch!
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I'd start them both on Saturday against Southampton, both in the centre of midfield, with Westwood. They'll give us some legs and a tackle.
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One of those instead of an attacker from the 4 he played making it a midfield 3 against their 4 would have evened things up abit. If they were both fit and he left them at home so that he was not even in a position to change things to me was gross incompetence.
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I'd start them both on Saturday against Southampton, both in the centre of midfield, with Westwood. They'll give us some legs and a tackle.
I'd go with that as well.
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Agreed, I'd drop Gabby to the bench to enable that and start Stevens and Guzan over Bennett and Given also.
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Will Westwood be fit though?
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I'm Mat Kendrick reported that only Dunne, Vlaar, Westwood & Albrighton and Gardner are the only ones injured
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I'm Mat Kendrick reported that only Dunne, Vlaar, Westwood & Albrighton and Gardner are the only ones injured
Which makes one wonder, why weren't they at least on the bench?
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Herd out for the season. Why was I not aware of this before?
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Does Herd have a big future at the club? He's hardly a kid anymore...
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depends what the future of the club is mate.
championship? yes.
challenging for europe? no.
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I posted a tweet yesterday that herd is out for the season .
@MatKendrick: Trouble and strewth: Chris Herd's #avfc season is over because his fractured foot requires surgery http://t.co/1z1QKr9y3H
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depends what the future of the club is mate.
championship? yes.
challenging for europe? no.
What about a PL mid-table side then?
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Neither are good enough. I think Sylla showed enough against Reading that he is worth sticking with for QPR, and he Bannan and Westwood seemed a decent enough blend of grit and passing. OK it was "only" Reading, but then the next match is "only" QPR, so in theory a home match against the bottom side should be winnable. Holman is just Nigel Reo Coker without the football brain, flair and range of passing.
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I think by the looks of it, albeit one game, but Sylla just looks like a much better version of Herd.
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The two Aussies have been fairly underwhelming. Have they got more to give?
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I think by the looks of it, albeit one game, but Sylla just looks like a much better version of Herd.
I know you hate him Paul but the lad rarely, if ever lets us down. Before we decide whether he's good enough wouldn't it be ideal to see him play in his favorite position. That curling shot into the top corner against Liverpool at Anfield was less than 12 months ago, probably the last time he played in midfield.
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I've always had it in my head that Herd's best position is right back. He had a cracking game there against Wolves a couple of season's ago.
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I like herds tenacity as a defensive midfielder, doesn't cut the mustard for me at right back but out of herd and Holman I think herd is a more usual squad player,
The three imports from the Dutch league have been a real dissappointment to me this season and while Vlaar has been the better of the 3 he hasn't been anything special.
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Herd is still a good utility player to have in the squad. In my opinion he was our best outfield player last season. And to be fair, he hasn't really had a chance in midfield this season, so it is hard to tell if he can adapt to Lambert's style of play. The same can't be said of Holman who clearly doesn't have any quality on the ball. Why some people are calling for him to come in for Bannan on Saturday is beyond me. At least with KEA it is just a question of him adapting to the pace of the league. Holman doesn't have a problem with the pace IMO. He just doesn't have the quality for this league. I think he will leave this summer.
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Herd is still a good utility player to have in the squad. In my opinion he was our best outfield player last season. And to be fair, he hasn't really had a chance in midfield this season, so it is hard to tell if he can adapt to Lambert's style of play. The same can't be said of Holman who clearly doesn't have any quality on the ball. Why some people are calling for him to come in for Bannan on Saturday is beyond me. At least with KEA it is just a question of him adapting to the pace of the league. Holman doesn't have a problem with the pace IMO. He just doesn't have the quality for this league. I think he will leave this summer.
I'm not sure I'd agree that kea only needs to adapt to the pace of the game , I am not convinced he is good enough at this level to be quite frank.
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Herd is still a good utility player to have in the squad. In my opinion he was our best outfield player last season. And to be fair, he hasn't really had a chance in midfield this season, so it is hard to tell if he can adapt to Lambert's style of play. The same can't be said of Holman who clearly doesn't have any quality on the ball. Why some people are calling for him to come in for Bannan on Saturday is beyond me. At least with KEA it is just a question of him adapting to the pace of the league. Holman doesn't have a problem with the pace IMO. He just doesn't have the quality for this league. I think he will leave this summer.
I'm not sure I'd agree that kea only needs to adapt to the pace of the game , I am not convinced he is good enough at this level to be quite frank.
I think KEA has shown enough in flashes to show he does have the quality at this level. His problem is that he can easily let a game pass him by and doesn't get stuck in enough. This is something he can learn.
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Herd is decent, but he isn't good enough at one role to command a place in a premier league team week in week out.
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Herd like Lichaj is an o.k utility player who can come in for one or two games and do a job. The problem is when they play 5-6 games in a row like over xmas and then they start to get found out when teams target them as weak points like Chelsea ruthlessly did.
Shame Herd is injured as Lowton is on 9 yellows so will get a 2 match ban soon.
I would've played Herd at RB against Stoke for example.
No idea what's happened to Holman as he had some good games pre xmas but has been garbage since.
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Players like KEA can take a while to get used to the pace of the Prem so i would'nt be writing him and Holman off just yet. They have been in and out of the side as well for various reasons let's not forget.
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Players like KEA can take a while to get used to the pace of the Prem so i would'nt be writing him and Holman off just yet. They have been in and out of the side as well for various reasons let's not forget.
The likes of Westwood and benteke have adapted to the pace of the premier league - whilst it may have some bearing i just question whether either Holman and kea are good enough at this level- both have been hugely disappointing and I don't see either holding down a regular starting place in the future.
I suggest the reason they have been in and out of the side is because neither has been good enough to keep their place.
Holmans workrate cannot be questioned - it's his lack of ability that concerns me.
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The only time I thought Holman looked half decent was the Newcastle/Swansea games earlier in the season when he was deployed deeper. This is because his main role was his off-the-ball work where he closed down extremely effectively never giving the opposition any breathing space and displaying great stamina. Why PL has never played him in this role since is anyones guess.
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Herd's being rested to make sure he's fighting fit for the end of season piss up.
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Thought Holman was good v Norwich also in the League Cup.
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Like i said Eastie, some players adapt quicker than others. Nani at Man Utd took an age before he finallly settled. Bale did'nt do anything at Spurs for 18 months or so. Petrov took a couple of seasons as well. It happens. They might not be good enough in the long run who knows, but it's a bit to early to write them off completely yet.
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Some players never adapt, and find their level, like Darren Huckerby for example...
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Thought Holman was good v Norwich also in the League Cup.
Only in the first half. Sadly he didn't build on that performance either. Rarely offers anything offensively other then the occasional decent 25 yard strike. The Dutch league really must be shit if he was considered a good playmaker over there.
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I can't say i've been over impressed with either if i'm honest but i'm happy to give them another season before i totally write them off.
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I think Holman will be off this summer.
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Like i said Eastie, some players adapt quicker than others. Nani at Man Utd took an age before he finallly settled. Bale did'nt do anything at Spurs for 18 months or so. Petrov took a couple of seasons as well. It happens. They might not be good enough in the long run who knows, but it's a bit to early to write them off completely yet.
Problem is that KEA and Holman are in their late 20s. So time not really on their side.
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Like i said Eastie, some players adapt quicker than others. Nani at Man Utd took an age before he finallly settled. Bale did'nt do anything at Spurs for 18 months or so. Petrov took a couple of seasons as well. It happens. They might not be good enough in the long run who knows, but it's a bit to early to write them off completely yet.
Problem is that KEA and Holman are in their late 20s. So time not really on their side.
That's a fair point. I'd still like to see what they can do next season though.
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I think Holman will be off this summer.
Me too.
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With KEA there's been evidence of potential and given a bit more time in a team that isn't struggling desperately then I think he might be OK. Holman if I'm honest, I'd forgotten about - he's been pretty annoymous. Worth persisting with both for a bit longer but like others, suspect Holman will be off this summer regardless.
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Who would buy Holman apart from a dutch club? Same for KEA.
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With KEA there's been evidence of potential and given a bit more time in a team that isn't struggling desperately then I think he might be OK. Holman if I'm honest, I'd forgotten about - he's been pretty annoymous. Worth persisting with both for a bit longer but like others, suspect Holman will be off this summer regardless.
This.
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I rather like Holman. I hope he comes good.
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Holman, Bannan and KEA all have two many flaws in their game to be Premiership central midfielders. If only we could combine them we have the bloody good central midfielder we desperately need.
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This may be harsh, but I've always compared Holman to the type of player small heath would have signed circa 2002 when they were new to the Prem. Works hard, runs around a lot but lacks any quality needed at the top level.
Of course I want him to come good but I do think he is very limited.
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This may be harsh, but I've always compared Holman to the type of player small heath would have signed circa 2002 when they were new to the Prem. Works hard, runs around a lot but lacks any quality needed at the top level.
Of course I want him to come good but I do think he is very limited.
No surprise the manager that signed him!
In fairness he looked good for AZ in some of the european games they played and he did look o.k for a bit of the first half of the season. I think he's another one who's been affected by the chelsea game as his form has been non-existant since.
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We didn't pay anything for either, so let them improve to standards that will improve us.
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We didn't pay anything for either, so let them improve to standards that will improve us.
I take your point, and kind of agree, but feel the need to flag up that while they might not have cost us a transfer fee, they're costing us wages.
I actually think I've seen more from Herd that makes me think he's worth keeping on than I have from Holman. Herd has been here longer, yes, but I've seen precious little from Holman to make me think he's good enough.
I appreciate that some players take a long while to bed in, and this season has been a tough one for any player to bed in, but I don't know, I just look at Holman, and I can't see what he actually does other than run around a lot (which in itself is admirable, just not enough if that's all there is).
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I can't see Herd ever being a regular starter for us. I hope I'm wrong because I like his attitude, but while being a jack of all trades is useful from a squad perspective, being master of none is a disadvantage when it comes to nailing a first team place.
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We're in a reasonably good position here as I'd guess both could get a pay rise if they left so - for a change - we should be able to shift them if we choose.
Personally I think we need to loose a few numbers from midfield as we need to free up space for a new signing (i.e. a first teamer) and players such as gardner coming through.
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Holman hit the bar against Arsenal with a great shot and scored a couple of nice goals at QPR and Norwich. He seems to show glimpses of skill - I remember a slick bit of play that set-up Weimann for an effort off the post against Everton at the start of the season but he's flattered to deceive in general.
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Personally I think we need to loose a few numbers from midfield as we need to free up space for a new signing (i.e. a first teamer) and players such as gardner coming through.
This. Despite our central midfield being so weak, we have an abundunce of CMs. I think we will need to ship out 3 minimum if we are to strengthen in that area.
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Holman has done well at times, poor at others. I can't believe anyone thinks herd is good enough. I imagine he and lichaj will be gone pretty soon
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Holman has done well at times, poor at others. I can't believe anyone thinks herd is good enough. I imagine he and lichaj will be gone pretty soon
Herd was one of the few bright sparks from last season.
Played as a DMF he'd be a useful squad player, but I'm not seeing him as anything other than that.
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For a relegation battle, Herd is fine - that's his level - anything higher then he won't be needed.
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For a relegation battle, Herd is fine - that's his level - anything higher then he won't be needed.
We'd better keep him then!
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Holman has done well at times, poor at others. I can't believe anyone thinks herd is good enough. I imagine he and lichaj will be gone pretty soon
I can see Herd being useful possibly, but Lichaj, to me, looks suspiciously like he's not good enough for this level.
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I imagine Holman will go back to Holland or to Germany or somewhere in the summer.
Herd is useful to have in the squad.
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Lichaj is pretty shit.
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I think we could have used Herd a few times this season in midfield. He's not really been given the chance though. That said, it was needs must more than anything, because I don't think he's good enough. I love his attitude, and Holman's. With Sylla emerging, he does everything Herd could do last season in CM, but with added physical prowess and a bit more quality too.
Holman has faded in truth. I thought he started the season okay. We seemed to look better with him in the side. He's good when he has time on the ball. In close quarter situations or when he's rushed, his poor technique lets him down. But I do like him for his industry. He could still prove useful, who knows. Is he good enough? Perhaps not. We can find players with plenty of huff and puff, with much better ball control. Holman can spank a shot though it must be said. If he'd had a few more goals by this point, he'd have proven far more useful, and some of his deffiencies could be forgiven.
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There are too many players who can be labelled squad players but who are not good enough to hold down a regular 1st team place - especially in midfield we have plenty of players who lack the quality needed to stay in the team , the likes of bannan, kea, Holman, herd, Ireland, can all play ok on their day but none are consistent enough .
I would say westwood and Delph and( hopefully sylla ) will prove good enough but we need a couple of decent midfielders in the summer and to lose some of those who do not have whats required at this level.
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There are too many players who can be labelled squad players but who are not good enough to hold down a regular 1st team place - especially in midfield we have plenty of players who lack the quality needed to stay in the team , the likes of bannan, kea, Holman, herd, Ireland, can all play ok on their day but none are consistent enough .
I would say westwood and Delph and( hopefully sylla ) will prove good enough but we need a couple of decent midfielders in the summer and to lose some of those who do not have whats required at this level.
Most definitely. Our midfield is incredibly poor overall. There's no strength in depth, and the first choices, as well as Westy and Delph have done at times this season, are mid-table at best.
If Lambert could pull a couple more Benteke type signings out of the back, especially in midfield and defence, it would be great.
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There are too many players who can be labelled squad players but who are not good enough to hold down a regular 1st team place - especially in midfield we have plenty of players who lack the quality needed to stay in the team , the likes of bannan, kea, Holman, herd, Ireland, can all play ok on their day but none are consistent enough .
I would say westwood and Delph and( hopefully sylla ) will prove good enough but we need a couple of decent midfielders in the summer and to lose some of those who do not have whats required at this level.
Most definitely. Our midfield is incredibly poor overall. There's no strength in depth, and the first choices, as well as Westy and Delph have done at times this season, are mid-table at best.
If Lambert could pull a couple more Benteke type signings out of the back, especially in midfield and defence, it would be great.
You both may be right.
What I do know is that until we sort out our defence we will not know how good our midfielders are.
We've had two seasons (perhaps even three) where our MF has been pretty much on the back foot, trying to stem the flow of opposition onslaught and covering for the inadequacies of our defenders (I exaggerate perhaps to make the point).
Lambert / The manager has to target the defence initially in the summer sales and get that right. Then, offload the MF dross (exemplified by Ireland) and being a couple of decent premiership MF.
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Holman has done well at times, poor at others. I can't believe anyone thinks herd is good enough. I imagine he and lichaj will be gone pretty soon
Herd has shown more then Holman ever has. It isn't easy to find a player that can competantly play at RB, CB and CM. He also has the athleticism required in this league. Yes, he may not be good enough to be a regular starter, but he is the sort of player that even the top teams like having in their squads. As for Lichaj, I think he contract is up this summer. I don't think it will be renewed.
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Is Lichaj under 24. Will we get some compensation for him?
He's another one to me who looked good coming in for the odd game but start him 5-6 in a row and teams really start to target him as a weak link. See Chelsea of course and also Wigan at home.
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Holman has done well at times, poor at others. I can't believe anyone thinks herd is good enough. I imagine he and lichaj will be gone pretty soon
Herd has shown more then Holman ever has. It isn't easy to find a player that can competantly play at RB, CB and CM. He also has the athleticism required in this league. Yes, he may not be good enough to be a regular starter, but he is the sort of player that even the top teams like having in their squads. As for Lichaj, I think he contract is up this summer. I don't think it will be renewed.
Agreed. Although, and I was happy with it at the time, we let Gardner go and he does the same job. Only better.
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Have to disagree that Herd does a better job than Craig Gardner did, both average but Craig had a bit more about him IMHO
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Is Lichaj under 24. Will we get some compensation for him?
He's another one to me who looked good coming in for the odd game but start him 5-6 in a row and teams really start to target him as a weak link. See Chelsea of course and also Wigan at home.
I don't think you get compensation if you just release them.
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Lichaj is the worst footballer in the first team squad at the moment.
The 2 Aussies aint too great either but Herd does have the whole versatility thing going for him. He's reasonable in a few positions.
Holman has a good engine but little else.
All 3 would struggle to get into a top half teams squad, not to mention team.
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There are too many players who can be labelled squad players but who are not good enough to hold down a regular 1st team place - especially in midfield we have plenty of players who lack the quality needed to stay in the team , the likes of bannan, kea, Holman, herd, Ireland, can all play ok on their day but none are consistent enough .
I would say westwood and Delph and( hopefully sylla ) will prove good enough but we need a couple of decent midfielders in the summer and to lose some of those who do not have whats required at this level.
Most definitely. Our midfield is incredibly poor overall. There's no strength in depth, and the first choices, as well as Westy and Delph have done at times this season, are mid-table at best.
If Lambert could pull a couple more Benteke type signings out of the back, especially in midfield and defence, it would be great.
Obviously if he could find players of Benteke's quality then that would be great, but I would still prefer two more established Premier League players in those positions. It might be unlikely, but Barry and Lescott would be great signings in those two positions (they would probably be on similar wages to Bent ad Ireland) .
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Ha ha Barry and Lescott will be on at least double what Bent and Ireland are on.
Problem we have to look at Benteke type signings, because established premier league players are too expensive in cost and wages.
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Ha ha Barry and Lescott will be on at least double what Bent and Ireland are on.
Problem we have to look at Benteke type signings, because established premier league players are too expensive in cost and wages.
That's it unfortunately. I do think we need 1-2 experienced players, but for those to be established Prem players who are good enough, reliable enough, will cost more money than Randy is willing to spend.
What we need is another Petrov, someone influential, experienced, and to settle as quickly as Benteke has. So if anyone has a few miracles to spare, throw them this way.
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Have to disagree that Herd does a better job than Craig Gardner did, both average but Craig had a bit more about him IMHO
... he takes a mean penalty as well!
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Holman has just been on the radio in Melbourne, the interviewer as asking him why he doesn't get a regular starting lace in the Villa team. They obviously really rate him here.
He just said he didn't know and that he'd been a regular stater before Christmas, but he hadn't asked why he hadn't been picked since
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Is Lichaj under 24. Will we get some compensation for him?
If he ever signs for any one?!
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Lichaj is the worst footballer in the first team squad at the moment.
The 2 Aussies aint too great either but Herd does have the whole versatility thing going for him. He's reasonable in a few positions.
Holman has a good engine but little else.
All 3 would struggle to get into a top half teams squad, not to mention team.
This is why we are where we are at .
In fact we have looked better since none of them have been near the team. I would probably keep Herd for the squad but
get rid of the other two to Wolves or some one .
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Defensively, Lichaj could be a perfectly good right back. He did an excellent job on Gareth Bale last season.
The problem is that Lambert wants full backs who can play the ball like midfielders, which is fine but doesn't suit Lichaj.
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Holman's attitude is spot on, it's a shame it's not working out for him:
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/socceroo-holman-in-a-tough-place-20130321-2giko.html
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Defensively, Lichaj could be a perfectly good right back. He did an excellent job on Gareth Bale last season.
The problem is that Lambert wants full backs who can play the ball like midfielders, which is fine but doesn't suit Lichaj.
Not an unfair assessment, but even the PL style aside, I think his level is the Championship.
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I see Holman is bemused as to not being in the team, the reason is Brett your form has dropped off badly.
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We've played better without him in the team.
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I see Holman is bemused as to not being in the team, the reason is Brett your form has dropped off badly.
He never had form IMO bar a few games.
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Holman's attitude is spot on, it's a shame it's not working out for him:
http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-sport/socceroo-holman-in-a-tough-place-20130321-2giko.html
Good attitude re working harder in training but the fact that he hasn't spoken to Lambert about his selection makes me think he'll be off in the summer. Either that or he's simply bullshitting to the Aussie media.
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holman has been venting before australia v japan..
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/football/holman-distraught-over-fall-from-favour-at-aston-villa-20130531-2nh8x.html
TOKYO: Brett Holman has revealed his despair at seeing his English Premier League dream with Aston Villa turn into a nightmare, saying the club's manager, Paul Lambert, still won't talk to him.
After gradually rising through to become one of the top players in the Dutch Eredivisie, and starring for the Socceroos, Holman was widely expected to adapt well to life in Britain after moving on a free transfer from AZ Alkmaar.
While he ended the year with a respectable tally of 27 appearances, they tended to come earlier in the season and, before long, Holman fell so far from favour that he wasn't even making the match-day squad.
In March, Holman expressed his initial frustration at the situation, but while Lambert claimed he didn't mind the player speaking out, he hasn't done much about it since.
''No, there wasn't much verbal contact with the manager,'' Holman said. ''Whether he had that with other players, I don't know - but there wasn't a reason or an explanation why it went the way it went after Christmas.
''I'm going to knuckle down for the next few weeks [on international duty] and then think about my future. Maybe I have to make a decision, maybe not - it all depends on what happens at Villa.''
Holman said the situation had been a major mental strain after being excited about his move to the world's most famous league.
''It's frustrating and you'd be crazy to say you're happy sitting on the bench every week,'' he said.
''You miss that peak moment at the end of the week after working your backside off. You don't get any rewards for it … It's been tough but luckily I've got a good support system with my family behind me.''
Holman said he didn't know how his base fitness would be heading into Tuesday's World Cup qualifier against Japan because he hasn't played in so long - only for Aston Villa's youth team.
''I'm not match fit because I haven't played any games,'' he said. ''You're training all the time and you do extra sessions because you haven't been playing. It's tough to judge.
''No reserve-grade football, just youth … . But I do feel good, even if training and playing in games is completely different.''
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Fair enough for me. I'd be disappointed if he was happy not playing.
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Why do players always moan about not speaking to the manager?
They're all adults, why not walk over to him and ask for a chat?
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Fair enough for me. I'd be disappointed if he was happy not playing.
well do something when you are on the pitch then instead of looking like a small heath player
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Not Lamberts signing. Was given a more than fair crack but isn't good enough. I like Brett, he works his bollocks off but he's not premiership quality. Not even close.
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We need a good wide player who can challenge Weimann for a starting place.Holman is not the answer and in the centre of the park ,Delph,Nzogbia and hopefully Gardner are better options. I've been slightly more impressed with Herd than Clark or Baker in the centre of the defence,good in the air ,reads the play better,more determined but injury prone.However,our priority is a quality central defender and I think that Herd will lose out .
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Fair enough for me. I'd be disappointed if he was happy not playing.
well do something when you are on the pitch then instead of looking like a small heath player
This, I'm afraid.
Tara a bit pal, you won't be missed.
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Not Lamberts signing. Was given a more than fair crack but isn't good enough. I like Brett, he works his bollocks off but he's not premiership quality. Not even close.
I'd be keeping him myself. I agree he's been given a fair crack by Lambert and that he's done nothing to suggest he'll turn into a regular for us, but he seems a good pro and we've kept worse players for longer. Another 12 months and if he's still the same standard then, we should move him on.
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We need a good wide player who can challenge Weimann for a starting place.Holman is not the answer and in the centre of the park ,Delph,Nzogbia and hopefully Gardner are better options. I've been slightly more impressed with Herd than Clark or Baker in the centre of the defence,good in the air ,reads the play better,more determined but injury prone.However,our priority is a quality central defender ad I think that Herd will lose out .
Herd is a DMF or fullback, though, not really a CB. If Eric has gone I would keep Herd.
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Yep, with Eric gone, Herd's an ideal player to have on the bench
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If Holman is not in the team, he need to work out why the manager doesn't select him and work on his game to make the manager want him back. Work rate is nothing if it is not effective use of energy and ability.
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If Holman is not in the team, he need to work out why the manager doesn't select him and work on his game to make the manager want him back. Work rate is nothing if it is not effective use of energy and ability.
The problem is Michael i don't think he has the ability .
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He was o.k first half of the season, early on and over xmas he had some good performances.
Garbage since xmas though, coming on and barely touching the ball in a few sub appearences.
Wouldn't shock me if he moved on to a Palace or Hull or back to Holland.
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He has one of the best shots in the squad but like Hitz found out (who had a superior strike), that's not enough when the rest of his game is not up to scratch.
The likes of him, Bannan, El Ahmadi and Herd...much of a muchness really. Are any worth another go? Maybe KEA, I think he has shown composure and some ability in patches. Wouldn't be upset if any of them left. I guess some will get one last chance as our squad isn't huge as it is and another midfielder, Ireland, is likely off.
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Herd is fine as cover...RB, CH and defensive midfield. We've lost Lichaj as the squad utility player so imagine Herd will just fill that role when we get injuries.
Disappointed in KEA, thought we'd signed a gem in the early few weeks but Sylla has surpassed him from what he's shown.
Delph's improvement has signalled the end for Bannan here imo, that and Gardner hopefully staying healthy.
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I hope Holman can break back into the team. he was probably MOM against Swansea and played very well early on. Not sure what happened, maybe he faded in training?
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I hope Holman can break back into the team. he was probably MOM against Swansea and played very well early on. Not sure what happened, maybe he faded in training?
He was MOM v Swansea and deservedly so. I think he had at least one other MOM performance early on but he completely went to shit after that.
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I hope Holman can break back into the team. he was probably MOM against Swansea and played very well early on. Not sure what happened, maybe he faded in training?
He was MOM v Swansea and deservedly so. I think he had at least one other MOM performance early on but he completely went to shit after that.
I think it's a combination of the step up in standard and the lack of a clear positional role fo him - is he a winger? a midfield grafter? a box-to-box player? a withdrawn striker?
It's not obvious to me and he hasn't made any one position his own.
And coming on for cameo roles clearly doesn't suit him - he needs a solid run of games to 'bed down'.
After last year's pre-season games I forecast that once he'd found his feet in the P'ship he'd be a bit of a diamond for us. He's failed to impose himself and his technique seems average at best (apart from his shooting which genuinely does seem to be a talent).
Regrettably I think we should offload Holman and he may well do a decent job elsewhere.
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You miss that peak moment at the end of the week after working your backside off. You don't get any rewards for it
This kind of sums up the way he plays. Runs around a lot, no end product.
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Its only when Westwood hit form in the second half of the season that by comparison I realised just how poor Herd was in midfield. He is cover at FB at most.
Herd is always getting unnecessary yellow cards due to some wild tackles. No discipline or maybe he just isn't good enough.
Herd and Holman must realise Lambert doesn't rate them and will probably leave
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Herd and Holman must realise Lambert doesn't rate them and will probably leave
One thing they both have in their favour is versatility, which may seem them retained as squad players.
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Is his shooting that good? I remember one the goalkeeper should have saved . He has not scored that many . Good work rate but brings nothing to the party .
If we are going to move on to the next level ( 8th - 10th ) then Holman is not good enough .
New signings and a few of the youngsters bringing through please.
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To move forward we have to replace either Westwood or Delph as neither offer any goal threat at all. Delph has been impressive towards the end of the season but only in a destructive manner whereas Westwood is more constuctive but not as combative as Delph. I have been impressed with Sylla and he certainly deserves a prolonged run in the team. I think Holman deserves another season to try and get a run in the team to prove his worth. I would certainly keep Herd as he can fit into many positions and not look out of place, a very good squad player.
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To move forward we have to replace either Westwood or Delph as neither offer any goal threat at all. Delph has been impressive towards the end of the season but only in a destructive manner whereas Westwood is more constuctive but not as combative as Delph. I have been impressed with Sylla and he certainly deserves a prolonged run in the team. I think Holman deserves another season to try and get a run in the team to prove his worth. I would certainly keep Herd as he can fit into many positions and not look out of place, a very good squad player.
Delph was one of Leeds' potent forces in his previous life. He has goals in him, IMHO, and I think they will come.
I accept that against Fulham he missed a howler.
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If Delph keeps playing like he has the last few months the goals will come.
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Delph, Westwood and Sylla looked good in a 3. We do need other options (which could include different types of midfielders) /more competition though.
As for Holman, if he could hardly get into a side that really struggled what chance does he have in an improving side and stronger squad? We need to move anyone on who doesn't have a future here.
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Delph is our strongest midfielder now. We don't half have some dross in there. Ship out Bannan, Ireland is a gonner anyway and KEA is take-or-leave at best.
Versatility is the only thing Holman and Herd offer. That's not enough to cover a lack of quality in both and for that reason, I'm out.
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Delph, Westwood and Sylla looked good in a 3. We do need other options (which could include different types of midfielders) /more competition though.
As for Holman, if he could hardly get into a side that really struggled what chance does he have in an improving side and stronger squad? We need to move anyone on who doesn't have a future here.
Worth hanging onto as at least a squad player, I couldn't stand watching him early on in his career, could never understand that he was continually place in the national side. Then he, just....clicked and looked a player. Is worth another look down to his perseverance.
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Both ok as back up, unless of course we have better coming in to replace them.
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Holman played very well three weeks ago against Japan but the previous couple of weeks against Jordan and last night Iraq apart from a couple of things looked lost and I'd even say a insipid out there. Under the previous national coach Pim Verbeek, he looked a different player.
It's a similar scenario here, methinks he's going to struggle even as a squad player to fit in. Changed my tune.
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With the players we've bought in, Gardner back, and youngsters coming through, I think Herd and Holman's days are numbered. They'll be sold as soon as a suitable offer comes in. Both are championship standard at best. Good luck to them, but even if we can't ship them off, I don't see them making the 25 man squad, or appearing again.
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With the players we've bought in, Gardner back, and youngsters coming through, I think Herd and Holman's days are numbered. They'll be sold as soon as a suitable offer comes in. Both are championship standard at best. Good luck to them, but even if we can't ship them off, I don't see them making the 25 man squad, or appearing again.
Whilst I do thing Herd and Holman's days are numbered, I wouldn't base that too much on the return of Gardner - a young player who has barely kicked a ball for us in the top flight.
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I still think Herd would make a decent back up for Lowton.
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I still think Herd would make a decent back up for Lowton.
Agreed!
Bannan, Ireland, Holman and N'Zogbia to go as well!
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The dutch lad sounds like Holman's replacement to me in the squad.
Not sure on Herd really, o.k as back up but could go if we sign anymore right sided defenders.
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With the players we've bought in, Gardner back, and youngsters coming through, I think Herd and Holman's days are numbered. They'll be sold as soon as a suitable offer comes in. Both are championship standard at best. Good luck to them, but even if we can't ship them off, I don't see them making the 25 man squad, or appearing again.
I wouldn't undersell them as championship standard, or rather I wouldn't oversell the Premier League. Players in the bottom 10 clubs are often interchangeable with Championship players but those clubs may have the odd few who are genuine Premier League players. So they could still find places for themselves in the Premier League. Could being the operative word.
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Holman seems to have lost his stamina which was always his greatest attribute. He used to run around like a headless chook for 90mins following the ball everywhere.
Moving to the premier league I think he has started to overrate himself instead of working inside his own capabilities. I used to abide his sour face and petulance when he was a hard worker, but now he seems to think he is some sort of creative genius and deserves to be the principle receiver of the ball rather than to chase and harry until the opposition coughs it up for him to capitalize on their mistakes. His technical limitations were always obvious, but his work ethic produced results. Without that work ethic he is a completely mediocre player.
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Holman went from being the next Des Bremner to being the latest also-ran. Extraordinary. He was exceptional at the start of the season but looked a very limited player when in possession.
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Holman went from being the next Des Bremner to being the latest also-ran. Extraordinary. He was exceptional at the start of the season but looked a very limited player when in possession.
Even at the start of the season, his touch, ability on the ball and decision making did not look good enough for the Premiership.
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You can not fault Holman's energy but he is a limited footballer.
You can certainly tell the difference in the type of footballer within the same price range from Lambert's to Holman's.
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I see on the BBC that Australia qualified for the World Cup last night. Holman recently said that he would want to be playing first team football in the season before Brazil 2014, so it sounds like he will be pushing for a move. I cannot see Villa standing in his way.
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We didn't. He's on his way to Dubai.
Good luck, Brett.
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I rather liked Brett. hard to dislike a player who busts a gut for you.
Good luck to him.
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All the best to him. Wasn't a Lambert player so was always gonna have to do something remarkable to get into PL's plans. He got a fair crack of the whip, he just wasn't good enough sadly. Bloody hard worker though. I liked him. Clearly though, McLeish's prerogative was not technical proficiency.
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Yeah, good luck to him,never lacked effort and hard work, just quality.
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He needs to use his energy better and not be completely shagged when he's actually needed because he's chased shadows at full pelt for 20 minutes. If he's going though them good luck to him because his commitment was always there if the quality wasn't.
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Are we getting a few quid for him ?
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He is pretty shit really. Not really that good in any position or anything in particular.
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Glad he is going. Did nothing at all from Christmas onwards, and we looked a worse team with him on the field
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Any confirmation he's off?
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Holman is off then subject to a medical . The waste of space Mr Ireland next please.
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In the qualifier against Iraq Holmans foot skills let him down all night, you can see the way Lambert is only bringing in players who are comfortable on the ball, Holman just wasn't good enough.
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The way he casually allowed the Newcastle player to equalise last year annoyed the hell out of me. He'd run about in forward positions but did jack shit in the way of closing players down
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Glad he is going. Did nothing at all from Christmas onwards, and we looked a worse team with him on the field
Agree. He was criminally poor at closing down and not just in the famous incident against Newcastle and his over hitting of a pass bordered on the legendary
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Best of luck to him. He worked hard but by christ he lacked talent.
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Disappointed he didn't do more with us. Still, good luck and all the best to him.
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Are we getting a few quid for him ?
I saw mention of £2m, which if correct is outstanding work by the club.
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So he's off to the mighty Al Nasr!! No doubt he will be paid shit loads in an uncompetitive league.
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Victory signs with Australian Bert Holman :P
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.alnasrclub.com/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAl%2BNasr (http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.alnasrclub.com/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DAl%2BNasr)
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Fair play and best of luck to him. He wasn't a terrible player but if you going to make it in the premier league purely based on your engine you need to be able to keep it going for 90minutes, otherwise you have to have some skills to fall back on. The most frustrating thing is that he showed a few glimpses of being a good player, the odd flicked pass or long shot but too often they were drowned out by his poor technique, you just couldn't trust him in possession.
I hope he does well though, he had a good attitude to the club and the game he just wasn't quite good enough for the premier league.
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Thanks Brett, best of luck in the future.
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Yes, best of luck Brett.
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I did'nt do any pre-season games last year but apparantley he looked really good. He looked ok as part of the midfield with Bannan and Ireland for a few games early on in the season but other than that, he did look a bit off the pace overall. Good luck to him anyway.
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I will give brett credit for wanting to play, and not just happy to sit on the bench, picking up his dough
Brett - could you ask if your new club want Hutton, Bannan, & Ireland etc....
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Best of luck Brett.
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His nadir for me was Spurs at home on Boxing Day, at fault for at least three of the four goals through giving the ball away. Yet great at Anfield in the 3-1 win.
Hard worker though, wish him luck.
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Share the sentiments, he tried hard, ran around a lot but never really impressed.
Good luck Brett, or Bert (according to Al Nasr website).
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That was easy wasn't it! I don't think Ireland's exit will be as smooth somehow
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Good luck to him.
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That was easy wasn't it! I don't think Ireland's exit will be as smooth somehow
Although he might not have been good enough for the Premier league Brett certainly has the hunger. If we could combine Brett's desire with Ireland's talent we'd have some player.
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Its a bit like when we had Heskey and Bent. if only we could have fused bits of the two together.
We'd have had a goal poacher built like carew,, and a skinny lad that keeps falling over.
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Its a bit like when we had Heskey and Bent. if only we could have fused bits of the two together.
We'd have had a goal poacher built like carew,, and a skinny lad that keeps falling over.
That reminded me of Alan Partridge's Mid Morning Matters phone-in subject. If Pamela Anderson had a baby with Stephen Hawking would it be a very attractive, clever person or a disabled lifeguard.
As for Holman, whilst pretty much every other player looked better as the season went on, he seemed to go backwards.
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If we got a fee for him, that's a bonus.
He was okay last season, I thought. Worked hard enough, had a goal or two in him. His problem was that he's really a wide player, and because we didn't play with two defined wide midfielders/wingers, Lambert tried pushing him inside, and he hasn't got the composure or class on the ball in the central areas. Gave it away too much. He's a runner, not a passer. He looked alright when we tried that narrow midfield diamond early on in the season, but we moved on from that.
Fair enough - Lambert gave him a chance, didn't come off. There are others I'd rather see leave Villa before Holman, but good luck to him.
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I liked Holman and would have done a job for us in a 4-4-2 formation a la Carrodus and Bremner and I wish him all the best, shame we didnt get a fee for him from some fecking oil magnet mind, 10m would have been enough
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We won't be receiving a fee for Holman then. His contract has been terminated by mutual consent.
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I think that is a fair enough stance though, did not pay a lot (signing bonus will not have been a lot I would think) so the decent thing to do is let him go free.
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Surely he can't have been on such large wages that we need to let him go free?
especially to a UAE club, aren't they all super rich? give us a cheeky 250k or something lads
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I thought he was poor to be fair . never impressed with him at all. Really happy he has gone.
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Won't be missed really.
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Scored a couple of crackers and hit a few other screamers early on in the season. Then from Christmas, pretty much nothing.
Still, I wish him all the best.
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Scored a couple of crackers and hit a few other screamers early on in the season. Then from Christmas, pretty much nothing.
Still, I wish him all the best.
a couple of crackers and a couple of screamers . Did he ? must have missed them :)
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I think that is a fair enough stance though, did not pay a lot (signing bonus will not have been a lot I would think) so the decent thing to do is let him go free.
It makes loads of sense for him also. The journey to Australia is cut in half for any pre tournament friendlies thy might play at home, and he's still somewhat central for games in Europe. Importantly he'll play every week. Good luck in the WC Brett.
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Scored a couple of crackers and hit a few other screamers early on in the season. Then from Christmas, pretty much nothing.
Still, I wish him all the best.
a couple of crackers and a couple of screamers . Did he ? must have missed them :)
He did that though didn't he.
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Scored a couple of crackers and hit a few other screamers early on in the season. Then from Christmas, pretty much nothing.
Still, I wish him all the best.
a couple of crackers and a couple of screamers . Did he ? must have missed them :)
Cracker against Norwich in the League Cup - got us back in the game.
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The other was QPR away.
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Good luck to him. He was up against it from the start being a McLeish signing when Lambert took over.
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It is worth giving him a chance but it didn't work out for Brett but that football. At least he had his chance.
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I wish him all the best, good player and could have done a job for a premiership team, just not Villa and the way we play.Reminds me of a poor mans Des Bremner