Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on September 17, 2012, 08:43:49 AM
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We are all excited by the game and result on saturday but more than both of those it was the mentality i saw change that impressed me the most.
The togetherness of the team prior to coming out for warming up - laughing , joking they look like a group reqady to work / fight together
The warm up - in the past 1st team did their warm up whilst the subs just kicked a ball about on the side - now all of them do the warm up together - no one left out
The new players - up close they really do look like kids (thats probably more my age) yet they all have a maturity about them that is really good to see.
Attitude - not one of them comes across as billy big bollocks, and that includces the more experienced pro's - the whole attitude of the club seems to have changed from the last couple of years
The mentality of the manager - a very tricky Swansea team (who i think pass the ball as well as any team in the premiership) was out thought, and more importantly out grafted for huge parts of the game. The change of Given for Guzan took balls, especially pre newcastle game mentioned by Shearer on MOTD, which in my mind really put a stake in the ground for any player to understand their place can be lost with poor performances, too long players keep their place due to reputation rather than output.
The tactics, the motivation from the sideline, the way the players came over listened to what was said and acted immediately upon the instructions shows a level of respect for the Manager unseen for the last 2/3 years (maybe thats the difference in having a younger, inexperienced squad?)
The substitutions - not being afraid to throw Westwood into CM, to go after more goals rather than sit tight - if we had sat back and drew that game the pressure was on yet he had the belief in himself and the team to get the reuslt by still going forward.
The confidence in the team, especially in the 2nd half where Swansea (Moore chance aside) never had a look in was just great to see
It is easy to get carried away after one win - but it was the manner of the whole performance that made me think that although there will be cock ups along the way we really do have the basis here for a really good team and bright future
Well done Randy and Paul F - it took a while but we not only have our club back but we have the most important thing a football fan needs - and that is the feeling that we can compete. And at this moment i look forward to playing anyone - home or away
UTV
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Early days indeed-and we have been here before but I have the same feeling too Hookey. It was the manner more than the result. It makes me want to see them -win or lose.
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Well said, agree with all of that.
You're absolutely right about the lack of Billy Big Bollockses in the side, they seem to be great team players.
Lambert is astute and our squad which looked painfully short to most of us (me included) a few weeks ago, suddenly looks very solid.
This is due to Lambert getting them playing for their places. The best thing is we have options all over the pitch, very excited about Benteke as he offers something completely different, in fact all 4 of our strikers offer something different. If it's not working, bring on Gabby etc
Plus lots of young, hungry mature players and a manager who knows what he's doing, is a winner and likes playing proper football.
Is it a dream?
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The last 2 games have been hugely enjoyable to watch indeed and we are on the right track with lambert at the helm- lets enjoy the journey and see where it takes us!
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I'm excited about how good a side we can become.
We have virtually a completely new team who have only played 5 competitive games so far. What will they do once they get to know and understand each other better? We are unrecognizable from last season and many a season for that matter. The work ethic amongst all of them is a joy to behold.
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I'm not sure what Gabby's role is going to be in this new revolution. Benteke scored. Bent linked the play well on Saturday, Ok, he wasn't much of a threat, but his all round game is improving. And Weimann could have scored twice, looked lively.
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It was a treat everyone coming away from the ground on Saturday happy, smiling and enthusing about the performance.
It's been a long time since I saw a Villa team with as much passion, effort and commitment as the last two performances, but we must not get too carried away, we play very open and i thinkj although we are going to have perfomances like Saturday's we're also going to have a few tatterings along the way, but we must stick with them.
I thought Bent was superb leading the line, something he is not known for, and his workrate, commitment and attitude summed up the new Villa.
Haven't read all the other threads but does anyone know if the captainvy was changed because Bent didn't want it, or just Lambert's choice ?
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Top post Hookey I agree with every word. I would sum up by saying we have our team back. I't doesn't mean we will pull up any trees but what it does mean is that any team who thinks we will roll over is now in for one hell of a shock and that makes me proud.
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It was a treat everyone coming away from the ground on Saturday happy, smiling and enthusing about the performance.
It's been a long time since I saw a Villa team with as much passion, effort and commitment as the last two performances, but we must not get too carried away, we play very open and i thinkj although we are going to have perfomances like Saturday's we're also going to have a few tatterings along the way, but we must stick with them.
I thought Bent was superb leading the line, something he is not known for, and his workrate, commitment and attitude summed up the new Villa.
Haven't read all the other threads but does anyone know if the captainvy was changed because Bent didn't want it, or just Lambert's choice ?
Not sure, but I'd imagine it was Lambert's choice. If this is the case, then Bent's reaction to it was very encouraging, other players might well have sulked.
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Definitely moving in the right direction, and if we screw Soton next match, as we should expect to, it'll be about how we compete against the top four/five.
I'm optimistic, based on what we've seen in the last two games and Lambert's philosophy last season at Norwich. We can be a top 6/8 team.
It'll be a pleasure to know Savage's prediction shoved right up his a*se, as well as the rest of the pundits like Lawro patronising us with comments such as we'll be OK if Bent starts scoring. I think we might have one or two other options now.
UTV
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I agree with the OP, these last two games have shown the change. We're bound to have some poor games where nothing seems to work and lose games, and that'll be the test of the season on how the players and Lambert reacts to them and gets up and running again.
Bent seems a bit like a different player than before; he gets involved more and create chances for other players too, hopefully this won't affect his ability to score goals and we'll see him scoring once or twice against Southampton.
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I agree with most of the post, Hookey, but not the conclusion. There was so much to admire in the effort, skill and application of every one of them. However, it really is just one game and will mean the square root of fuck all if the players don't use that performance as a baseline that we can expect to see week in week out.
The framework is clearly there but I've seen to many false dawns and need to see them produce the same levels of ability, commitment and intensity over a period of months. My bet is that you'll be proved right but for now I'm going to wait and see.
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I said in the Swansea post match thread that the one thing that's pleased me most is the fact that we're not giving the opposition time on the ball. For the first time in a while, Swansea looked ordinary and that was largely down to us.
We're also passing the ball quite well at times too and whilst i don't want to go over old ground, i wonder how good Jean Makoun would be in that midfield of ours at the minute.
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Bent seems a bit like a different player than before; he gets involved more and create chances for other players too, hopefully this won't affect his ability to score goals and we'll see him scoring once or twice against Southampton.
I think this as a result of the work ethic that Lambert has insisted on. It would be hard for Bent to play a fox in the box type game when everyone else is being so selfless. He would stick out like a saw thumb if he only played off the centre backs shoulder.
It’s a testament to Bent’s character and the apparent feeling within the squad that he has changed his style of play for the team.
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The only bit I disagree with is with Given being dropped for poor performance, I just don't think that's the case and I think it belittles the quality of the performances from Guzan since. Guzan got a start int he cup and played well enough to earn the place for the Newcastle game. He then played superbly and has now followed it up with another superb performance. The emphasis has got to be on if you play well enough you'll get game time, not if you play badly you get dropped.
I know it's not easy to apply that for goalkeepers who tend to only get the odd chance to impress when they're out of the team but Guzan left before because previous managers were waiting for the current keeper to make enough mistakes to be dropped, which totally ignores his form. Everyone on here agrees that Guzan should have stayed in the team last season but because Given hadn't played badly enough to lose his spot he got it back as soon as he was fit.
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I said in the Swansea post match thread that the one thing that's pleased me most is the fact that we're not giving the opposition time on the ball. For the first time in a while, Swansea looked ordinary and that was largely down to us.
We're also passing the ball quite well at times too and whilst i don't want to go over old ground, i wonder how good Jean Makoun would be in that midfield of ours at the minute.
I think he would've fit into it very well, unfortunately apparently he didn't adapt living in england and didn't adapt playing in the premier league, at least not in couple games he played for us in that spring.
J2M came into our club in very chaotic time which couldn't have helped him settling down, especially when Houllier & co left and we got TSM.
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I'm not sure what Gabby's role is going to be in this new revolution. Benteke scored. Bent linked the play well on Saturday, Ok, he wasn't much of a threat, but his all round game is improving. And Weimann could have scored twice, looked lively.
Gabby's role will be to come on when needed and hopefully look as good as he did against Newcastle.
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I'm not sure what Gabby's role is going to be in this new revolution. Benteke scored. Bent linked the play well on Saturday, Ok, he wasn't much of a threat, but his all round game is improving. And Weimann could have scored twice, looked lively.
Gabby's role will be to come on when needed and hopefully look as good as he did against Newcastle.
Gabby offers us a genuine threat from the wings compared to the other strikers as well as his greyhound pace.
Personally i think him and Benteke would be the worst to play against.
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Agreed. Also, Bent is improving (although he may find it more difficult to score now he is contributing more to team play), and Weimann has huge potential.
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One of the complaints most often levelled against MON was that he stuck too rigidly to the same team. The assumption now appears to be that Lambert will do just the same.
My guess is that they'll all get opportunities but if I had to put money on it then I'd say only Bent will play more games than Gabby from our forward options over the course of the season.
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I'm not sure what Gabby's role is going to be in this new revolution. Benteke scored. Bent linked the play well on Saturday, Ok, he wasn't much of a threat, but his all round game is improving. And Weimann could have scored twice, looked lively.
Gabby's role will be to come on when needed and hopefully look as good as he did against Newcastle.
Gabby offers us a genuine threat from the wings compared to the other strikers as well as his greyhound pace.
Personally i think him and Benteke would be the worst to play against.
Gabby, Benteke and Weimann are all going to be horrible to play against and will cause defenders to make mistakes, Bent will be a constant threat from those mistakes (and, based on Saturday, Benteke will be as well).
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I would not have changed the team from against Noocastle either . It was an improved performance by every one.
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If there was a measurement of how things have changed at Villa Park it was at full time. We must be world record holders for emptying the stadium before the players have left the pitch. On Saturday most stayed to show their appreciation for a hard working and entertaining performance.
I'd imagine almost everybody that was there on Saturday will want to be back for the next home game, not to mention those that never made it. Whilst an attendance of 34,000 can be seen as disappointing, I'm sure if we continue to show that kind of performance at Villa Park the crowds will soon improve. It's so long since we were consistantly entertaining at home, it'll take time to recover from a decade of generally dull football. Hopefully the fans will be out in numbers to see us beat the Baggies and there's nothing like a derby victory to get the buzz going at the Villa.
Lambert, Culverhouse and Karsa deserve credit for what they've achieved in such a short space of time. Long may it continue.
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The only bit I disagree with is with Given being dropped for poor performance, I just don't think that's the case and I think it belittles the quality of the performances from Guzan since. Guzan got a start int he cup and played well enough to earn the place for the Newcastle game. He then played superbly and has now followed it up with another superb performance. The emphasis has got to be on if you play well enough you'll get game time, not if you play badly you get dropped.
I know it's not easy to apply that for goalkeepers who tend to only get the odd chance to impress when they're out of the team but Guzan left before because previous managers were waiting for the current keeper to make enough mistakes to be dropped, which totally ignores his form. Everyone on here agrees that Guzan should have stayed in the team last season but because Given hadn't played badly enough to lose his spot he got it back as soon as he was fit.
Sorry mate - i disagree completely. Guzan did very little in the Tranmere game to justify him staying in - it was more about a poor EC for Ireland followed by at least two of the goals against Everton were totally Givens fault
Someone somewhere mention a very good point and that it maybe none of us know how badly the death of his best mate (Speed) has effected him
Either way Guzan was resigned on the basis that if he gets his chance and does well he stays in - well Bradders the shirt is your to lose because Saturday was as a complete a Goalkeepers performance as i have seen for many years - it had everything Great reaction saves, superb domination of area, crossing interception and vocal command of back 4
As i said unless Guzan fucks up Given will get splinters for a while
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This may sound stupid but whilst he had little to do against Tranmere, Guzan just 'looked' confident, up for it and clearly really wanted the jersey. I think a lot of the change is down to where their relative heads are at the moment.
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You do need to look beyond the one game and one result. But even if we'd got pegged back on Saturday you could have taken a lot of positives from the game. The signs were there against Newcastle and arguably even in the last 15-20 minutes against Everton, which I had assumed was them taking their foot off the gas, but could have been the green shoots of Lambert's methodology taking effect.
I'm really enjoying the fact that our team is now trying to play a bit of good football, as well as putting in the effort. I'm sure there will be days when it all goes tits up but I think the philosophy being applied is very promising.
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Hookey - the problem is I completely disagree with the sentiment of "put a stake in the ground for any player to understand their place can be lost with poor performances".
The stake it puts in the ground is, "if you're given a chance and you take it you'll be rewarded".
I want people losing their place because the guy behind them is chomping at the bit, not because they've made mistakes.
I'm not saying Given deserved to keep his spot, I'd have dropped him last season and he's gone backwards since, I'm saying the message he sends is, and should be, "if you earn your spot you keep it unless someone else does more to earn it", rather than "you'll keep you're spot until you fuck up".
As a non-starter the first shows that training hard and putting in the effort when you come off the bench, etc will be rewarded, the latter says no matter how well you do you stay where you are until that guy proves he shouldn't be there. The latter approach is the more traditional one in the UK and is a key reason why we don't see as many kids coming through at premier league clubs, stick with a trusted if limited player rather than run the risk of picking an untried youngster.
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This may sound stupid but whilst he had little to do against Tranmere, Guzan just 'looked' confident, up for it and clearly really wanted the jersey. I think a lot of the change is down to where their relative heads are at the moment.
I totally agree. From watching Given against Everton and Guzan against Tranmere and Swansea I think there is a big difference in their body language. One seems comfident and up for the challenge and the other seems a bit shellshocked from last season and the Euros.
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the signs of progress were there right from the start of the season against West Ham,
completely new back four, new players here and there and most importantly a totally new style of play,
we kept the ball for the first 30 mins better than i have seen any Villa team in donkeys years, we didnt penatrate or do anything special with it, but never the less the signs were there, possession and passing football were here to stay but the result overshadowed what was trying to be done.
Everton is our only bad display so far in my view, and Everton on that day were as good as anything your likely to see this season, it was the perfect away performance by them, even Moyes said we caught them on a hot day,
Pinaar, Bains and Fellaini were terific on the day with a near perfect display, it didnt last they then went and lost at West Brom, but thats football i suppose
then Newcastle we carried on with the new style and tactics, and against Swansea it all came together for our fisrt 3 points, this is a team in development, with a manager that knows what he wants and knows how to get it,
i know its been said before, but i reckon Lambert could be the best manager we have had since Ron Saunders, its early days yet, but you just get that feeling that he could build something special just in the same way RS did
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Hopefully this spurs Gabby on to come out of the blocks firing, nothing wrong with healthy competition.
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The only bit I disagree with is with Given being dropped for poor performance, I just don't think that's the case and I think it belittles the quality of the performances from Guzan since. Guzan got a start int he cup and played well enough to earn the place for the Newcastle game. He then played superbly and has now followed it up with another superb performance. The emphasis has got to be on if you play well enough you'll get game time, not if you play badly you get dropped.
I know it's not easy to apply that for goalkeepers who tend to only get the odd chance to impress when they're out of the team but Guzan left before because previous managers were waiting for the current keeper to make enough mistakes to be dropped, which totally ignores his form. Everyone on here agrees that Guzan should have stayed in the team last season but because Given hadn't played badly enough to lose his spot he got it back as soon as he was fit.
Sorry mate - i disagree completely. Guzan did very little in the Tranmere game to justify him staying in - it was more about a poor EC for Ireland followed by at least two of the goals against Everton were totally Givens fault
Someone somewhere mention a very good point and that it maybe none of us know how badly the death of his best mate (Speed) has effected him
Either way Guzan was resigned on the basis that if he gets his chance and does well he stays in - well Bradders the shirt is your to lose because Saturday was as a complete a Goalkeepers performance as i have seen for many years - it had everything Great reaction saves, superb domination of area, crossing interception and vocal command of back 4
As i said unless Guzan fucks up Given will get splinters for a while
Also his performance at Bremen was poor which may have had some bearing - Given has never been a commanding keeper in respect of picking off crosses and Guzan has improved this element of his game considerably.
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The last two seasons were a chore to attend.
I feared after the Everton game it would be the same but there was excitement and, admittedly, some trepidation on Saturday but can't wait for the Olbiun now...
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Hookey - the problem is I completely disagree with the sentiment of "put a stake in the ground for any player to understand their place can be lost with poor performances".
The stake it puts in the ground is, "if you're given a chance and you take it you'll be rewarded".
I want people losing their place because the guy behind them is chomping at the bit, not because they've made mistakes.
I'm not saying Given deserved to keep his spot, I'd have dropped him last season and he's gone backwards since, I'm saying the message he sends is, and should be, "if you earn your spot you keep it unless someone else does more to earn it", rather than "you'll keep you're spot until you fuck up".
As a non-starter the first shows that training hard and putting in the effort when you come off the bench, etc will be rewarded, the latter says no matter how well you do you stay where you are until that guy proves he shouldn't be there. The latter approach is the more traditional one in the UK and is a key reason why we don't see as many kids coming through at premier league clubs, stick with a trusted if limited player rather than run the risk of picking an untried youngster.
Good points and i accept what you say - either way it gives us and more importantly the understudies at the club hope that their efforst will be paid off
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Hookey - great post.
Guzan is indeed a more complete goalkeeper than Shay - dominating his area and marshaling his defence. Shay is a top shot stopper - but the way Guzan now comes out and claims balls relieves an enormous amount of pressure off his defenders. Shay is much like Brad Friedel in that he is primarily a net minder - and as such relies on strong centre halves to control the box. Both Friedel and Given are top keepers when it comes to reacting to shots - but neither is great at commanding their area - as truly great goalkeepers do - like Schmeichel, Van de Sar, or indeed Pat Jennings.
Guzan was always a good stopper - his penalty performances in the League Cup told us that, but he used to look nervous when handling high balls. He has worked hard at that aspect of his game and is now reaping the reward for all that hard work. He looks a million dollars - oops - this is the premiership - make that 10 million.
And you are right about the obvious attitude change in the players. It is clear for all to see. It is relaxed professionalism. It is not a hierarchy based on reputation. And we will be all the better for that.
There will be ups and downs of course - but as you say - at long last we have a team who will try to win and give it their all.
Long may it continue.
UTV
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What are Villa's relegation odds after Saturday? I know they shortened after the Newcastle game.
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What are Villa's relegation odds after Saturday? I know they shortened after the Newcastle game.
irrelevent?
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wasnt the Everton keeper poor last night, i think he could take some blame for both Newky goals last night
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wasnt the Everton keeper poor last night, i think he could take some blame for both Newky goals last night
Possibly you're in the wrong thread
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Going back to the early talk of Vlaar being made captain. The concrete one has apparently taken over the dressing room to such an extent that PL really didn't have a choice. He has said he wants Bent to concentrate on scoring goals, which is fair enough.
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Excellent post Hookey, I would add just one thing.
PL has now 'earnt' the 'support' of the villa supporters and this has given the players and club a massive lift.
In the last few years our players must have been 'sh*tting a blue brick' when turning up at Villa Park, now, they are 'licking their lips'.
PL, has turned negativity into positivity throughout the club and this has given the supporters, and in turn, the players a major confidence boost.
Hopefully, Villa Park will become a fortress again instead of a picnic for the opposition.
8)
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I just read that Sunderland have managed a grand total of five shots on goal from their three league matches so far this season.
That's the MON way.
I was reading one of their forums today, and there was much moaning about sitting back and trying to play on the counter attack at home, and having no Plan B. A few of the posters were pointing this out, but most of them were calling them "knee jerkers" and moaners.
It was just like this place a few years ago.
It does, though, make you think that we're really fighting to throw of the bad habits of four years or more. It won't happen in the space of a few matches.
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I just read that Sunderland have managed a grand total of five shots on goal from their three league matches so far this season.
That's the MON way.
I was reading one of their forums today, and there was much moaning about sitting back and trying to play on the counter attack at home, and having no Plan B. A few of the posters were pointing this out, but most of them were calling them "knee jerkers" and moaners.
It was just like this place a few years ago.
It does, though, make you think that we're really fighting to throw of the bad habits of four years or more. It won't happen in the space of a few matches.
To be fair to Houllier, those sort of bad habits were what he was trying to get rid of, albeit in a fairly ham-fisted fashion at times. Not to mention the predominantly attacking football on display last season. Ahem.
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I agree, he was trying to do that, at least. Whether he was succeeding is another question, but there's no doubt we took a 12 month trip in the opposite direction under McLeish last season.
That's the thing that baffled me most about the appointment. It wasn't his shit record, but the fact that you appoint a manager like Houllier, who then starts moving things into the modern age, then you appoint someone who is a poster boy for outmoded, outdated, and frankly horrible 1980s style English football.
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I agree, he was trying to do that, at least. Whether he was succeeding is another question, but there's no doubt we took a 12 month trip in the opposite direction under McLeish last season.
That's the thing that baffled me most about the appointment. It wasn't his shit record, but the fact that you appoint a manager like Houllier, who then starts moving things into the modern age, then you appoint someone who is a poster boy for outmoded, outdated, and frankly horrible 1980s style English football.
No argument here. I doubt we'll ever find out the real thinking (or lack thereof) behind it.
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I agree, he was trying to do that, at least. Whether he was succeeding is another question, but there's no doubt we took a 12 month trip in the opposite direction under McLeish last season.
That's the thing that baffled me most about the appointment. It wasn't his shit record, but the fact that you appoint a manager like Houllier, who then starts moving things into the modern age, then you appoint someone who is a poster boy for outmoded, outdated, and frankly horrible 1980s style English football.
No argument here. I doubt we'll ever find out the real thinking (or lack thereof) behind it.
It is almost as if the board looked at what success McLeish had at SHA (highest placing in generations, league cup) and attributed it to his managerial skills whereas the failures (relegations, shite football) were a consequence of not having money to spend and nothing to do with him at all.
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
Houllier may have delivered this, but was denied the opportunity to get the ball rolling properly by the timing of O'Neill's departure. I really don't understand either why we suddenly switched to Mcleish after Houllier. Especially when the preferred candidate was Martinez.
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Agree 100%
One day there will be an Emporers new clothes moment with MON and the world will see his limitations
It seems it has not took the Mackems long to suss it out
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Memory could be playing tricks but didn't Pubehead sign Eric Licaj while on a pre-season trip in the States? IIRC he had a broken leg at the time.
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In fairness to mon, I think you can say he made a small number of excellent signings (young, Milner, downing, Carew, friedel, petrov) and then most of the rest were really bad value for money.
All the profit we made when some of those good signings left was wiped out by the losses / need for replacing the others.
I'm a bit concerned people are getting ahead of themselves after 2 games. Both were really encouraging performances and the Swansea game was the most enjoyable villa game I've seen in bloody ages.
But there's still a lot to do. Everton utterly out classed us. And our passing at high tempo can still be pretty sloppy. Ireland and n'zogbia will, you would think, new to step up quite significantly if we're to finish top ten. We're light on creativity otherwise. In the absence of that, I think bannan has to play. He's created quite a few good chances with crosses and set pieces and the tucked in role on the left of midfield is his perfect position.
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I can't see N'Zogbia being a Villa player next season unless there is an amazing turnaround in him. It was ironic that he replaced the hardest working player on the pitch last Saturday. Personally i thought Bannan just edged Holman as man of the match against Swansea and has more than earnt his shirt.
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I can't see N'Zogbia being a Villa player next season unless there is an amazing turnaround in him. It was ironic that he replaced the hardest working player on the pitch last Saturday. Personally i thought Bannan just edged Holman as man of the match against Swansea and has more than earnt his shirt.
The only reason you think Bannan was MOTM is that you were pist QB, you hardly remembered the score when I was speaking to you
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I can't see N'Zogbia being a Villa player next season unless there is an amazing turnaround in him. It was ironic that he replaced the hardest working player on the pitch last Saturday. Personally i thought Bannan just edged Holman as man of the match against Swansea and has more than earnt his shirt.
I was drunk on the atmosphere, plus it's been a bloody long time since i've seen a Villa side leading for so long in a game without once thinking we weren't gonna win. So in summary, up yours.
The only reason you think Bannan was MOTM is that you were pist QB, you hardly remembered the score when I was speaking to you
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I can't see N'Zogbia being a Villa player next season unless there is an amazing turnaround in him. It was ironic that he replaced the hardest working player on the pitch last Saturday. Personally i thought Bannan just edged Holman as man of the match against Swansea and has more than earnt his shirt.
I was drunk on the atmosphere, plus it's been a bloody long time since i've seen a Villa side leading for so long in a game without once thinking we weren't gonna win. So in summary, up yours.
The only reason you think Bannan was MOTM is that you were pist QB, you hardly remembered the score when I was speaking to you
Nothing to do with the pints before the game then, just drunk on the atmosphere lol. You admitted you had fallen asleep during the game, was the atmosphere that good?
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Memory could be playing tricks but didn't Pubehead sign Eric Licaj while on a pre-season trip in the States? IIRC he had a broken leg at the time.
We signed Lichaj and Weimann in the summer of 2007 so MoN deserves credit for both of them. That's the most frustrating thing. He generally did well when he bought youngsters, it was the stupid signings of 'experienced pros' that screwed him and showed his limitations. The only young player he got massively wrong was Davies.
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Memory could be playing tricks but didn't Pubehead sign Eric Licaj while on a pre-season trip in the States? IIRC he had a broken leg at the time.
We signed Lichaj and Weimann in the summer of 2007 so MoN deserves credit for both of them. That's the most frustrating thing. He generally did well when he bought youngsters, it was the stupid signings of 'experienced pros' that screwed him and showed his limitations. The only young player he got massively wrong was Davies.
Didn't MON (originally) sign Guzan?
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Memory could be playing tricks but didn't Pubehead sign Eric Licaj while on a pre-season trip in the States? IIRC he had a broken leg at the time.
We signed Lichaj and Weimann in the summer of 2007 so MoN deserves credit for both of them. That's the most frustrating thing. He generally did well when he bought youngsters, it was the stupid signings of 'experienced pros' that screwed him and showed his limitations. The only young player he got massively wrong was Davies.
Did he get Davies massively wrong? I'm not so sure about that. Davies was superb alongside Laursen, was on the verge of the England squad and looked a real class act until he did his achilles and was out for 6 months. Once he came back in he got back to playing at a high standard again then did his shoulder. By the time he regained fitness we'd got Collins and Dunne and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks of them now, that season defensively we were one of the best in the league. IMO Davies was simply unlucky to get two long term injuries and without them would have been regarded as a good signing.
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Of course he got Davis massively wrong as he was a £9 million player who is now plying his trade in the Championship. The injuries didn't help but prior to them there were by his own admission those 'pub player' games.
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Of course he got Davis massively wrong as he was a £9 million player who is now plying his trade in the Championship. The injuries didn't help but prior to them there were by his own admission those 'pub player' games.
That was his debut v Leicester in the league cup. He took a lot of stick for that, but it was refreshing to hear a player not make excuses about a terrible performance. In the end it's impossible to argue he was a success but I genuinely believe that he was unlucky with both the timing and the length of his injuries.
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Bad luck doesn't stop a signing being a failure though (I actually agree with you, I think things could've turned out much better for him). Signed for 9m, sold for less than 2m if I remember rightly and currently playing a second season in the championship with no reports of interest from the premier league suggests we overpaid massively.
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currently playing a second season in the championship with no reports of interest from the premier league suggests we overpaid massively.
He was linked with moves to Southampton, Norwich and QPR over the summer...
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This bit:
We are now having the season that we should have had two years ago. Substantial rebuild on top of substantial re-think as to the way we do things and the way we play.
and this:
It says much for O'Neills legacy that for all his transfer dealing, barely two years after his departure not a single one of his outfield signings is featuring in the starting XI and of the four that remain at the club, Warnock and Dunne would have long since gone if a suitable home could have been found.
Are the two most spot-on things I've read on here in a long, long time.
Memory could be playing tricks but didn't Pubehead sign Eric Licaj while on a pre-season trip in the States? IIRC he had a broken leg at the time.
We signed Lichaj and Weimann in the summer of 2007 so MoN deserves credit for both of them. That's the most frustrating thing. He generally did well when he bought youngsters, it was the stupid signings of 'experienced pros' that screwed him and showed his limitations. The only young player he got massively wrong was Davies.
We did also make a good profit on Young, Downing and Milner, not to mention Barry who he turned from into a class centre midfielder.
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Oh dear. Is this going to turn into another in depth assessment of MON's transfer policy?
What was our wage bill like compared to Spurs?
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I thought Davies was quicker before he did his achilles, which was a big part of his game. Saying that, he was very good at Liverpool when he played with an injured shoulder while we were trying to sign his replacements so he could go and get it sorted.
In conclusion, I agree that he was unlucky.
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He was unlucky. The most successful players are also the luckiest, it's a fact of life
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currently playing a second season in the championship with no reports of interest from the premier league suggests we overpaid massively.
He was linked with moves to Southampton, Norwich and QPR over the summer...
Sorry, should have typed no reports of 'real' interest. All the links made were of the same ilk as the vast majority you get in the summer, made perfect sense in the mind of the journalist that wrote them but had no substance.
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I thought Davies was quicker before he did his achilles, which was a big part of his game. Saying that, he was very good at Liverpool when he played with an injured shoulder while we were trying to sign his replacements so he could go and get it sorted.
In conclusion, I agree that he was unlucky.
I also wonder - and this is probably nonsense - whether the fact he was so open about playing like "a pub player" in his debut (an incredibly honest thing for a footballer to say) sort of dogged him in his time with us.
I thought that on the evidence of what we saw, he wasn't really good enough, although he might have been if he'd had more confidence in his own ability.
Maybe he's a confidence player. I thought the same of Wayne Routledge, too, both here, when he was at Fulham previously, and when he went to Newcastle later on - a player who had the technical ability (and is showing it now at Swanseacelona) but wasn't able to show it most of the time.
I don't know whether the Championship is Davies' level, it may be more that he's built up a bit of confidence from playing without a huge price tag on his head. That's one thing I will say, we paid way, way too much for him, regardless.
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I just read that Sunderland have managed a grand total of five shots on goal from their three league matches so far this season.
That's the MON way.
I was reading one of their forums today, and there was much moaning about sitting back and trying to play on the counter attack at home, and having no Plan B. A few of the posters were pointing this out, but most of them were calling them "knee jerkers" and moaners.
It was just like this place a few years ago.
Indeed. It even had a reference to 'happy clappers'. Wonderful read knowing it's not us any more.
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I was wondering where Greg had gone.
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Did anyone mention Spurs' wages?
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Did anyone mention Spurs' wages?
Not for a while.
Last active: December 21, 2011, 01:06:42 AM
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Did anyone mention Spurs' wages?
Just one fella called 'MackemCat'.