Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine

Heroes & Villains => Match Threads & Player Ratings => Topic started by: Legion on November 21, 2011, 08:19:16 AM

Title: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Legion on November 21, 2011, 08:19:16 AM
Available Monday night.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2011, 09:50:06 PM
Absolutely dreadful.  Not a single positive note from the night.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rigadon on November 21, 2011, 09:50:42 PM
The game was over before it began.  First time I've really questioned AM.  Spurs are a good team but we've showed them far, far too much respect. 

Fucking shit.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2011, 09:50:59 PM
Much as I hate losing, I can accept losing if we at least try and win and go down fighting.

The team selection and lack of substitutions or tactical changes means we never even attempted to win this match. Complete fucking disgrace.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ross on November 21, 2011, 09:51:17 PM
I know we can all be prone to hyperbole in the immediate aftermath of a game, but I can't remember a more gutless, hopeless performance.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TheSandman on November 21, 2011, 09:51:44 PM
Abject.

Crap players and crap tactics.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Steve R on November 21, 2011, 09:52:06 PM
Well we certainly parked the moped tonight. That'll learn 'em.

Absolute dross.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Corleone on November 21, 2011, 09:52:29 PM
FUCK OFF MCLEISH - YOU'RE KILLING OUR CLUB
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 21, 2011, 09:52:47 PM
Absolutely diabolical. We are despicably lacking in ambition, that was an insult of a performance to the fans who went there. We are fucking shit, but we may as well try to attack if we are going to lose. Oh and Collins is fucking bollocks.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: DaveD on November 21, 2011, 09:58:05 PM
Thank God I didn't spend forty quid on that shite, even though it's my local game. Knew it was going to be bad, but that was a disgrace.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Can Gana Be Bettered!?!? on November 21, 2011, 09:58:18 PM
Rubbish performance against a team a million times better than us.

As much as it pains me to say it, especially when it's a team like Spurs, but these aren't the matches I care about anymore because it's obvious we'll lose.

I look forward to the Swansea game where I hope we play like we did against Norwich.

Swansea and Norwich are the big games for us now.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villan1975 on November 21, 2011, 09:59:46 PM
Poor,poor and thrice poor.
We are a weak side that will be in with a good chance of relegation
this season without any shadow of a doubt.Spurs are a good side that didn't even play
to 30% of their ability because they didn't need to.
Swansea will do exactly the same to us Sunday.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: exiled on the wirral! on November 21, 2011, 10:01:02 PM
Totally bizarre team selection, abject defending at set peices again. Total lack of desire and belief from a team which lacked any pace and bereft of any attacking ideas. Feel sorry for the fans who forked out £40 (and the rest) to watch that.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: tarzansbrother on November 21, 2011, 10:02:09 PM
Heskey why? Hutton why? Gabby not up front why? Collins playing why? Bannan on a drink driving charge ahead of Ireland why? Gutless, embarrassing that was the worst game of football I have ever witnessed. Xmas came early for Spurs. Get your coat Mcliesh and slip out the back door.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Broughty-Villian on November 21, 2011, 10:04:42 PM
I have watched Villa since 1974. Graham Turner, and Billy Mcneill are sore ones. Mcleish....Go now! Abject! We are a better team than that performance suggests.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: KevinGage on November 21, 2011, 10:04:57 PM
On the plus side:   We won't go down.  At least 4/5 worse teams than us in the division this year.

70% possession conceded against another Premiership side.  Shocking.  Maybe Alex thinks there isn't a huge amount wrong, and it was just two individual errors that allowed Dr Alban to score tonight.  If he does think that, he's delusional. 

We have the personnel to at least go to WHL and have a go.  We didn't.  Buck stops with the manager.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: hipkiss92 on November 21, 2011, 10:05:01 PM
Heskey why? Hutton why? Gabby not up front why? Collins playing why? Bannan on a drink driving charge ahead of Ireland why? Gutless, embarrassing that was the worst game of football I have ever witnessed. Xmas came early for Spurs. Get your coat Mcliesh and slip out the back door.

Because a drunk Bannan will still be better than Ireland
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dicedlam on November 21, 2011, 10:05:15 PM
I'm sorry, but this bloke should not be managing Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 21, 2011, 10:06:24 PM
Useless, hopeless, tactical dithering and clueless.

I thought we made Spurs look way better than they actually are, we didn't put pressure on them, allowed them way to much time, puts you of football.

Who's next for a bore fest.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eric woolban woolban on November 21, 2011, 10:06:36 PM
Utter, utter garbage.

The only players to come out with any credit for me were Herd, Cuellar and at a push Dunne.

Awful selection, awful tactics, awful manager. Randy you lost the plot when you brought in that buffoon.

The club is now a shambles. When the Villa fans were singing 'going down my Lord', you could read that two ways.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 10:06:54 PM
Much as I hate losing, I can accept losing if we at least try and win and go down fighting.

The team selection and lack of substitutions or tactical changes means we never even attempted to win this match. Complete fucking disgrace.

My thoughts exactly. I don't want to lose, but i can take losing better when at least we've tried to play football and try to win matches. This was an embarrassment and not how we play football at AVFC. I really did think AM would change his managing style from the blues when he had better players to manage with us. How wrong i was
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Dante Lavelli on November 21, 2011, 10:07:07 PM
Well we certainly parked the moped tonight. That'll learn 'em.

Absolute dross.

Very funny.  Nice work.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 21, 2011, 10:07:08 PM
This is the first time I've doubted him as the manager in himself. I've been doubting the club and its direction a lot, but even though we've been stripped of resources we have enough available to make a much better fist of it than that. Shocking Alex, completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Jockey Randall on November 21, 2011, 10:07:21 PM
Much as I hate losing, I can accept losing if we at least try and win and go down fighting.

The team selection and lack of substitutions or tactical changes means we never even attempted to win this match. Complete fucking disgrace.

Pretty much summed up how I feel. There's no excuse for not competing. Spurs weren't even that good and should be annoyed at themselves for not bagging 6 or 7. I've been behind Big Feck but some of those guys tonight really looked like they couldn't be arsed and that is not acceptable.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2011, 10:07:50 PM
I've seen plenty of performances that bad in 35 years or so, but I haven't seen many quite so gutless.

McLeish lived up to every ounce of his reputation for negativity tonight.

It was thoroughly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2011, 10:08:01 PM
Utter, utter garbage.

The only players to come out with any credit for me were Herd, Cuellar and at a push Dunne.

Awful selection, awful tactics, awful manager. Randy you lost the plot when you brought in that buffoon.

The club is now a shambles. When the Villa fans were singing 'going down my Lord', you could read that two ways.

Weren't they singing that at Rednkapp? I thought it was:

Pay your tax my lord, pay your tax.
Going down my lord, going down.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 10:08:09 PM
I honestly think we won't finish higher than 15th.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: andyh on November 21, 2011, 10:08:14 PM
Well, there are defeats and there are defeats.
That was yet another gutless, shambolic, and inept peformance.

But, worse than all of that, it was COWARDLY

The manager appears to have instilled in the team a 'never can win' mentality.
We are set up NOT to win, but worse than that, we don't even go through the motions of trying to.

I hate Mcleish.
I hate what he has turned us into.

I hope he turns it round, or that Lerner realises what a shocking appoinment he has made, before its too late.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rigadon on November 21, 2011, 10:08:17 PM
I've seen plenty of performances that bad in 35 years or so, but I haven't seen many quite so gutless.

McLeish lived up to every ounce of his reputation for negativity tonight.

It was thoroughly embarrassing.

Sadly, yes.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Tony Boucher on November 21, 2011, 10:08:22 PM
Well that was about the most god-awful pile of crap I've ever seen.  Fortunately Spurs didn't bother too much & we got away with a 2-0.
We seemed more than happy to hang on to the 2-0.  I can't think of a more limp-wristed performance, ever.
That was a team selected to lose & we duly obliged.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: rutski on November 21, 2011, 10:08:30 PM
Heskey why? Hutton why? Gabby not up front why? Collins playing why? Bannan on a drink driving charge ahead of Ireland why? Gutless, embarrassing that was the worst game of football I have ever witnessed. Xmas came early for Spurs. Get your coat Mcliesh and slip out the back door.

Because a drunk Bannan will still be better than Ireland
that close up of him, he actually looked drunk!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 10:08:49 PM
WTF was that? The team selection was a virtual white flag given their midfield  I give AM to mid-december latest at this rate.

1 shot on target. pffttttttttttt.........
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 21, 2011, 10:08:56 PM
On the plus side:   We won't go down. At least 4/5 worse teams than us in the division this year.

70% possession conceded against another Premiership side.  Shocking.  Maybe Alex thinks there isn't a huge amount wrong, and it was just two individual errors that allowed Dr Alban to score tonight.  If he does think that, he's delusional. 

We have the personnel to at least go to WHL and have a go.  We didn't.  Buck stops with the manager.


Maybe not, but unless standards of football in the Premiership have dropped dramatically this season, carry on like tonight and we will certainly be in a fight for survival, tonight was awful.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: ROBBO on November 21, 2011, 10:09:13 PM
We are the new Birmingham City in everything but name and strip. An absolutely disgraceful display, MCleish played for a low loss, even when two down he made just one substitution. Why not drop Darren Bent? he hardly sees the ball and it would enable us to play another defender.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Jimbo on November 21, 2011, 10:09:29 PM
It's sad to see how far and fast we've leapt backwards, but we've brought it all upon ourselves. No surprises here at all, but perhaps now is the time to have a radical rethink about where we're heading as a football club. It will get uglier than this.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Karl Bridges on November 21, 2011, 10:10:10 PM
I thought Herd was good again, shame about the way the team was set up. Suicidal selection. Playing two right backs gave us nothing down the right wing and as for Collins, hoofing the ball, losing his marker for the first and pretty much knocking the ball out of Given's hand for the second, useless tosser.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eric woolban woolban on November 21, 2011, 10:10:22 PM
The going down chant was about Redknapp. But you could easily take that it was about the Villa.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: AVFCRob on November 21, 2011, 10:10:49 PM
Losing, I can live with but not competing, not tackling, letting the opposition play without challenging, that I can't.  Seeing a Villa team that seemed to believe it had lost before it had kicked a ball.......horrible, horrible.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: KevinGage on November 21, 2011, 10:12:04 PM
On the plus side:   We won't go down. At least 4/5 worse teams than us in the division this year.

70% possession conceded against another Premiership side.  Shocking.  Maybe Alex thinks there isn't a huge amount wrong, and it was just two individual errors that allowed Dr Alban to score tonight.  If he does think that, he's delusional. 

We have the personnel to at least go to WHL and have a go.  We didn't.  Buck stops with the manager.


Maybe not, but unless standards of football in the Premiership have dropped dramatically this season, carry on like tonight and we will certainly be in a fight for survival, tonight was awful.

Oh I think we'll be involved.   I'm nearly certain of it.

I just hope/ pray that the Indians stick with Kean and Whelan sticks with Martinez.   
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Shrek on November 21, 2011, 10:12:14 PM
I've been rowing with some reporter from the sun all game on twitter.

We are shit, the players and manager are shit.

Collins, Hutton, Heskey should be dropped.

Clark, Gardner, Weimann, Should get more game time and Bannan and Delph should start next week.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mrfuse on November 21, 2011, 10:12:14 PM
easiest game spurs will play all season. Redknapp's wife and doctor will be well chuffed with our performance.

Okay spurs are the better team but wheres the determination, work rate, tempo, effort i could keep going.

I wonder what McLeish said at half time as we we couldn't have come out more lackluster if we tried. This is why i don't like McLeish nothing to do with where hes from or whatever but these heartless headless displays!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 10:12:15 PM
I wouldn't say i had much faith in AM to begin with, but i was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt... He's shown himself up in a big way tonight and let us all down. I'm not happy and lost a lot of "good will" in AM after tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Gareth on November 21, 2011, 10:12:28 PM
Cowards!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villadelph on November 21, 2011, 10:12:41 PM
fucking cowards, every one of em.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 21, 2011, 10:13:18 PM
We are the new Birmingham City in everything but name and strip. An absolutely disgraceful display, MCleish played for a low loss, even when two down he made just one substitution. Why not drop Darren Bent? he hardly sees the ball and it would enable us to play another defender.

D'ya know, my thoughts exactly, that's precisely how we look, anybody that looked at B'ham City last season can see them in Villa now, except we have a few more gifted players, but even them are muted to the point of silence.

Say's one thing to me, AM can set a team up one way, play one way, and as a result finish a season maybe one way.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: phil__ on November 21, 2011, 10:13:43 PM
Fuck me that was painful we hardly had a shot.  We realy are dog fuckin shit.  What the fuck is going on with playin heskey all the time.  All this bullshit that he wins headers etc is bollocks he never wins the flick ons so hes fuckin pointless.  I could see the point in playing hutton to double up on bale but they didnt even get close to him.  We just stood off we needed to push up the pitch.  Mcleish just has not got a clue.  Is marc alrbrighton shaggin his wife or summat cos he was are best player last year and cant even get on the fuckin bench.  This is making my blood boil its like mcleish is gettin revenge for all the beatings he took off us at the blues making us as shit as we can be.  We have to get this guy out and we may as well start now cos the club is goin knowhere with this guy.  Whos up for a protest? and i am serious dont give me this shit that we need to give him time and we aint doin so bad were 8th blah blah were aston fuckin villa we got good players and we should be at least looking like we can give spurs a game that was fuckin embarrasing.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Matt Collins on November 21, 2011, 10:13:55 PM
I think we all expected to lose. I didn't expect us to be that bad.

Collins is costing us several goals and if Clark is as promising as people think I reckon he needs a chance.

Hopeless team selection and complete lack of confidence, movement and ambition throughout the team.

I'm so pleased I didn't watch that with my spurs supporting mates.

I'm just not going to think about villa now till the Swansea game. That way madness lies.

Please can we get Heskey and Hutton out of midfield as quickly as possible! I honestly don't think Heskey is ever NOT on his heels.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Lobsterboy on November 21, 2011, 10:14:20 PM
Yes tonight's performance was poor and McLeish's gamble of doubling up on Bale failed miserably but we are still 8th in the Premier League not 18th

Not many positives from the game sadly apart from another good shift from Herd but need to work on the defensive fuck ups (again) and trust the manager will pick a slightly more creative side against Swansea

Three points on Sunday and the world won't seem quite as grim as it does this evening.

Oh and Spurs are a good side
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Somniloquism on November 21, 2011, 10:14:29 PM
Much as I hate losing, I can accept losing if we at least try and win and go down fighting.

The team selection and lack of substitutions or tactical changes means we never even attempted to win this match. Complete fucking disgrace.

Pretty much summed up how I feel. There's no excuse for not competing. Spurs weren't even that good and should be annoyed at themselves for not bagging 6 or 7. I've been behind Big Feck but some of those guys tonight really looked like they couldn't be arsed and that is not acceptable.

Exactly the same level of performance as against Citeh and against Baggies when we went a man down. It is almost as if McCleish says to them that we were going to lose anyway so don't bother doing anything.

A couple of seasons ago you knew we would fight for them points even if we didn't play well. Now most of the players will put in minimum effort as they know they can't be dropped or replaced as we have no money to replace them.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: steamer on November 21, 2011, 10:14:45 PM
I petitioned loudly on here against Mcleash appointment, not because of scum connections but because it set a benchmark for our ambitions. nice guy, not going to rock the boat, never going to win much and will bore you to death on the journey.
Randy, sorry, I admire the good things you have done but your choices of managers has been poor and we are all going to reap what you have sown.
In 50 years of supporting the Villa the last two years have numbed me to expect crap like tonight and I am sad rather than angry.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mrfuse on November 21, 2011, 10:14:55 PM
I've been rowing with some reporter from the sun all game on twitter.

We are shit, the players and manager are shit.

Collins, Hutton, Heskey should be dropped.

Clark, Gardner, Weimann, Should get more game time and Bannan and Delph should start next week.

Agreed at least the youngsters would have shown more enthusiasm, okay we might have still lost but Id rather see Gardner and Albrighton in midfield than Heskey and Hutton
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: CJ on November 21, 2011, 10:15:45 PM
On that showing in terms of tactics and lack of fight and creativity, and with the fixtures we've got coming up in December,  I fear we're heading for a relegation scrap in the New Year. And this year we don't have the players to dig us out of it like last season. Fortunately Wolves, Wigan, Blackburn and Sunderland look worse than us at the minute. But I'm genuinely worried.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: rbcuk on November 21, 2011, 10:16:05 PM
Embarrassing
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Fasth56 on November 21, 2011, 10:16:23 PM
Another one who has not questioned McCleish until now, but playing 6 outfield defensive players was asking for trouble. thought they would run up a cricket score. Never seen a 2 - 0 loss defended before!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: saunders_heroes on November 21, 2011, 10:16:43 PM
I've been rowing with some reporter from the sun all game on twitter.

We are shit, the players and manager are shit.

Collins, Hutton, Heskey should be dropped.

Clark, Gardner, Weimann, Should get more game time and Bannan and Delph should start next week.

We'd be even worse with all the kids in.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Barca 2011 on November 21, 2011, 10:18:17 PM
To many players were beaten before we even kicked off.No belief.
Far to much respect shown to a good Spuds side who hardly broke sweat cos or our tactics and attitude.Not a good start to a very difficult run of games up to January.
Its going to get worse.
For what its worth I thought Herd had a decent game, as for everyone else .........
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 10:18:40 PM
Absolute bizarre team selection.. I'd say he'd thrown the game if i thought anyone would make it that obvious.  Obviously just a tactical fuckwitt
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 21, 2011, 10:20:49 PM
The real sad thing is that Darren Bent had a couple of sitters in the first half, he missed them, fair enough, what the hell would we have done if he had of scored and got Spurs back up and playing with anger, we had absolute zero to stop them.

AM clearly writes certain games of and takes the loss, you can't do that in the Premiership, you have to fight for every game, get players thinking like that and the next thing is we roll over to teams like Swansea.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mike on November 21, 2011, 10:21:12 PM
we are still 8th in the Premier League not 18th

Only because we've had a really easy start to the season, wait till the New Year.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 10:21:24 PM
How much you wanna bet that McLeish will still give automatic starts to Collins, Hutton, Heskey etc but he'll drop Herd for Jenas and that's it.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mrfuse on November 21, 2011, 10:21:29 PM
I've been rowing with some reporter from the sun all game on twitter.

We are shit, the players and manager are shit.

Collins, Hutton, Heskey should be dropped.

Clark, Gardner, Weimann, Should get more game time and Bannan and Delph should start next week.

We'd be even worse with all the kids in.

Would we though? at least they would give it a go yeah we might lose but how could it be worse than that display tonight?  I reckon Gardner would have least got a shot on Goal which is more than Heskey did
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: AV82EC on November 21, 2011, 10:21:42 PM
I've just got through half a bottle of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc, it was crap, just like us and I've a mind to pour the rest of it down the sink.  Abject, gutless and lacking in any sort of will to win.  I've been following the Villa for 20 years and I can remember us being crap or being outclassed but I honestly can't remmeber a performance more lacking in interest or ambition.  McLeish has now lost my goodwill towards him and needs to turn it around fast, that was unacceptable.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: martyn ellis on November 21, 2011, 10:22:12 PM
This is what I don't understand. Why leave every single ball-playing footballer in the club on the bench? Why cram the defence with 6 foot plus hoofers who couldn;t hit a barn door? And worse, when it's obviously not working, why wait until the 64th minute to bring on someone who can at least pass the football to someone in his own team? I hate to say this, but you bet your life Blackburn Rovers would have fought tooth and nail to claw something out of that match tonight and it wouldn't surprise me to see us down there with them come January. Tonight was a lost cause from the start. They just didn't seem to have any belief at any stage. It was a case of 'oh well, we've lost this - let's keep the score down lads' and that has to come from the manager. I've never criticised McLeish before, but tonight he made two big mistakes - first by selecting that team, second by somehow convincing the players that they didn't stand a chance anyway.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 10:22:30 PM
I thought Herd was good again, shame about the way the team was set up. Suicidal selection. Playing two right backs gave us nothing down the right wing and as for Collins, hoofing the ball, losing his marker for the first and pretty much knocking the ball out of Given's hand for the second, useless tosser.

Agree with that. Add to that the miss from Bent, we really were poor. As much as I hate Spurs, they're light years ahead of us and know how to play some good, solid, entertaining football. We are still stuck in the dark ages.

There are plenty of teams in the Premier League who know how to play football, Swansea being one of them. If you thought this was ugly, wait until Sunday. Another repeat performance like tonight and Swansea will rip up a new one.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villadelph on November 21, 2011, 10:22:46 PM
Post-match presser, will McLeish blame his tactics or the execution?

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SheffieldVillain on November 21, 2011, 10:23:23 PM
You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Somniloquism on November 21, 2011, 10:24:00 PM
WTF was that? The team selection was a virtual white flag given their midfield  I give AM to mid-december latest at this rate.

1 shot on target. pffttttttttttt.........

Haven't you heard, AM is a very nice man and Randy keeps a letter from Fergie in his safe that tells him he made such a good choice. Can't see him leaving unless Randy goes at the moment.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: bertlambshank on November 21, 2011, 10:24:10 PM
Between now and the FA cup weekend I can see us getting 2 points if we are lucky.
Happy Christmas everybody.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: atomicjam on November 21, 2011, 10:24:26 PM
Awful, just awful. I hate Spurs and just watched them have the easiest 90 minutes for as long as I can remember. We were set up to sit back and spoil. Thats the way of Stoke & Birmingham fucking City. Hutton and Heskey in midfield, what the hell did AM expect would happen?! It was defeatist and so, so depressing to watch. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: gervilla on November 21, 2011, 10:24:37 PM
When AM watches that game back I hope he has Danny Murphys commentary to listen to as  he was spot on what he kept saying about us. No desire, no fight and just letting Spurs do whatever they wanted.
Another masterclass from James Collins and as for Emile, well I just won't bother as it's been said a thousand times over.
Clueless and heartless.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 10:25:03 PM
Yep, time to give the kids ago... WHats the worst that can happen???
I want to see Clarke, breaking up the collins, Dunne partnership. Where's Lichaj? give him a go too.
 Albrighton and or N'Zogbia. We'll have Jenas too for sunday.
I dont want to see, warnock, collins or heskey
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mrfuse on November 21, 2011, 10:25:06 PM
but you bet your life Blackburn Rovers would have fought tooth and nail to claw something out of that match tonight and it wouldn't surprise me to see us down there with them come January.

Yeah my thoughts even Wigan would have had a go and any of the promoted teams would have done better than us. I feel sorry for the traveling fans having to watch such a performance!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mark H on November 21, 2011, 10:25:14 PM
It looked to me that we were happy to "only" lose 2-0 - we never looked like we believed we would ever get anything from that game and played like it.

I am not even annoyed anymore I have just got that feeling of I cannot be bothered if they cannot be bothered

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 21, 2011, 10:25:20 PM
I've just got through half a bottle of Chilean Sauvignon Blanc, it was crap, just like us and I've a mind to pour the rest of it down the sink.  Abject, gutless and lacking in any sort of will to win.  I've been following the Villa for 20 years and I can remember us being crap or being outclassed but I honestly can't remmeber a performance more lacking in interest or ambition.  McLeish has now lost my goodwill towards him and needs to turn it around fast, that was unacceptable.

Saying this with all due consideration, its not to early to start thinking that AM is just not the right manager for us, Villa is not a club that mediocrity sits well with for long periods, we at least have to compete, RL must start to consider his options, we need players in Jan and AM is not the man to make these decisions.

We must think of other options or sink.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on November 21, 2011, 10:26:05 PM
we are still 8th in the Premier League not 18th

Only because we've had a really easy start to the season, wait till the New Year.

Really easy? We haven't won away all season and it's nearly Christmas!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2011, 10:26:17 PM
James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 21, 2011, 10:26:44 PM
i predict sub 30k crowds at VP this season if thats whats on offer
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SheffieldVillain on November 21, 2011, 10:27:26 PM
James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.

I think you're being overly kind there.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 10:28:01 PM
You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

Yet it's McLeish who selects those awful defenders. It's McLeish who convinced Dunne to stay, wants Collins to have an extended contract and bought Hutton into the team. I mean Herd actually got man of the match against Wolves when he was right back, but then he was dropped for Hutton who has been shit ever since he came here. Wtf is that bollocks?

It's funny how people defended McLeish because of his defensive traits. Erm...what? Where are they? We're defending worse than we did under Houllier and Houllier didn't really address it becasue these talentless players can't be helped.

Man, we should have just kept Houllier. Yes, he was ill, but G Mac who could have done mainly the men coaching where as Houllier could have worked out what we needed to be done to take us forward with his strong pull in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on November 21, 2011, 10:28:16 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 10:28:53 PM
Agree with you sheffieldvillian, i think the common factor here is the players. We've had a few managers now all having defensive problems. Only thing it can now be is the players themselves just are not good enough.

In saying that, that wasn't the problem with tonight. AM and his tactics were a massive issue for me
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 10:29:20 PM
You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.


yep. thats nearer the truth. too many gutless journeymen looking for an easy ride. Still, i reckon the spanish squad would have struggled with that team set-up
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Broughty-Villian on November 21, 2011, 10:29:51 PM
Abject. Piss poor. Embarassed.

Risso: Only collins??? Bent, dunne, gabby, Petrov.

We looked better for 8 mins with Delph on the pitch

Heskey!!!!!!!FFS
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 21, 2011, 10:29:53 PM
I think most of us could accept the current situation if we actually tried to play football. This level of performance combined with the incompetent horrendous hoof ball is just unacceptable in every single way.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Louzie0 on November 21, 2011, 10:30:11 PM
Thing is to bounce back and sink the swans next week!
I thought what the lads were asked to do worked in the second half for a bit.  Also, we've been complaining about the defence and they didn't concede another one, for the whole second half. 

Just - what on earth happened with the counter-attack?  They'll only work out what happened when they get a chance to see it back.  I'm gutted that they seemed mainly to man the barricades for the last 20-odd minutes, shades of the first half.

Everybody has a game like this but it's how the players respond and what the manager does and says to them afterwards that makes the difference next time, at least that's how it works in the club I used to play for every saturday, in a local league*.  I'm hoping that AM and the squad rise to the occasion.

And while we're on the subject, surely nobody believes that AMc said, 'go out there and be abject.'  Look at the beginning of the match thread.  Nobody is forecasting gloom and doom after reading the team, there.  Plans went wrong. Hopefully the players can get over it and be better next time.  I'm very happy with Chris Herd - what a cracker he's turned out to be.  Come on Villa!! 

Time for another glass of chenin blanc.

* Ok it was netball but the principle's the same!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SheffieldVillain on November 21, 2011, 10:30:27 PM
You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

Yet it's McLeish who selects those awful defenders. It's McLeish who convinced Dunne to stay, wants Collins to have an extended contract and bought Hutton into the team. I mean Herd actually got man of the match against Wolves when he was right back, but then he was dropped for Hutton who has been shit ever since he came here. Wtf is that bollocks?

It's funny how people defended McLeish because of his defensive traits. Erm...what? Where are they? We're defending worse than we did under Houllier and Houllier didn't really address it becasue these talentless players can't be helped.

Man, we should have just kept Houllier. Yes, he was ill, but G Mac who could have done mainly the men coaching where as Houllier could have worked out what we needed to be done to take us forward with his strong pull in the transfer market.

OK, so it's MoN's fault for signing them, Houllier's fault for selecting them and McLeish's fault for keeping them. Nothing is ever the players' fault, ever.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Nirog72 on November 21, 2011, 10:31:08 PM
Oh dear. The night I persuade the girlfriend to get Sky Sports and we sit through that!

Whilst they have not been fabulous by any stretch of the imagination what the f*ck have Delph, N'Zogbia, Clark, Bannan (driving thing aside), and Gardner (no chance at all yet this season) done not to get in that midfield and defence. The Manager's a joke and if I was any of these guys I'd want out in January. If I was Bent I'd already have my agent looking for other clubs. How much fun can it be having no supply line and a manager who doesn't actually try to win games.

Maybe we are trying to get relegated so we can blood the younger players in the Championship. Tonight was a disgrace, I don't think the players with the possible exception of Herd demonstrated the fight required but you have to say, when faced with that selection and tactics you'd have no idea as a player what the f*ck the manager was trying to achieve.

Really really depressing. McLeish should give the kids a chance and play people in their correct positions or f*ck off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2011, 10:32:22 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected??

That's a fair point.  The best I can say about McLeish is that he hasn't been quite as bad I expected, but still pretty hopeless.  It's turning out pretty much as I expected.  Lots of draws, getting battered by the big teams and picking up the odd win here and there against the worst teams in the league to make sure we don't quite go down. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: OzVilla on November 21, 2011, 10:32:41 PM
For a while now i've been conceding games against the Top 6 as they are so far out of sight it's not funny.  However, i'm not paid by the Club to Manage the team.  When the Manager starts conceeding these games the alarm bells should ring.  That's what we did tonight.

And Yes, McLeish should get plenty of stick but the way Lerner gets away with it too by many is strange imo.  Lovely bloke with the right intensions I'm certain but the last 18 months have been an unmitigated disaster.

We may not get relegated this season, there are far worse than us in this league, but I reckon we might be a championship side in the next 2-3 years unless something gives.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mrfuse on November 21, 2011, 10:32:43 PM
James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.

I think you're being overly kind there.

Ive been saying that all season rather than Hutton id say hes been worse which i know isint saying much but i would like to see Clark for Collins
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Fin Feds Dad on November 21, 2011, 10:33:21 PM
I always knew it was going to be a long, negative season - because football has changed over the last couple of seasons with the advent of the man city money and unfortunately, we are the team that has been caught in the eye of the storm .

18 months ago we were walking out at wembley, proud as punch, with a good chance of beating united - and could of - if it wasn't for Phil fucking Dowd.

To compound all this, we have appointed a manager who even the shite from down the road were glad to see the back of.

And I was prepared to give him a chance - was never thrilled with his appointment, but was prepared to give him a chance.

Thats all gone tonight - Hutton, Heskey, Collins, Warnock - no substitutions until too late - no fight or compassion -  fuck me - we were shit.

Very, very worried.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 21, 2011, 10:33:40 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

what do you mean 'where have you been'  Mcliesh hasnt played with a defensive 6 before tonight, in fact some of his team selections at the start of the season were critesized for being to positive,
i have always said that AM's DNA as a manager was for this type of football, but tonight is the first time with us that he's gone balls out to prove it,
i personanly hate it, but he's not been playing this way all season to be fair, unfortunatly his true colours are shining through
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villadelph on November 21, 2011, 10:34:28 PM
We paid 10million for N'Zgobia so Alan Fucking Hutton could play on the wing against the 'big' teams?!

Get a clue McLeish.

Everything that could've went wrong today, did.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: AV82EC on November 21, 2011, 10:34:37 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

Well some of us don't jump around like a bunch of fairy arsed fan dancers because we like to give the bloke a chance.  He hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he hasnt been a disaster either so the jury is still out.  However, I said I'd give him half a season and make my mind up after the Chelsea game and thats what I'll do but you know I may change my mind and decide he needs 2 seasons in charge.  Howveer, tonight was unacceptable and given a few more of those performances I know what I'll be deciding come January.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: ez on November 21, 2011, 10:35:43 PM
We kept it down to 2-0 somehow. McLeish will be jubilant at that.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 10:36:21 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chris Harte on November 21, 2011, 10:36:51 PM
One in the eye for anyone saying that Villa have had a solid start. Meet half-decent opposition and suddenly our front line are starved of service. Meanwhile, we still cannot defend set pieces.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 10:37:23 PM
You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

Yet it's McLeish who selects those awful defenders. It's McLeish who convinced Dunne to stay, wants Collins to have an extended contract and bought Hutton into the team. I mean Herd actually got man of the match against Wolves when he was right back, but then he was dropped for Hutton who has been shit ever since he came here. Wtf is that bollocks?

It's funny how people defended McLeish because of his defensive traits. Erm...what? Where are they? We're defending worse than we did under Houllier and Houllier didn't really address it becasue these talentless players can't be helped.

Man, we should have just kept Houllier. Yes, he was ill, but G Mac who could have done mainly the men coaching where as Houllier could have worked out what we needed to be done to take us forward with his strong pull in the transfer market.

OK, so it's MoN's fault for signing them, Houllier's fault for selecting them and McLeish's fault for keeping them. Nothing is ever the players' fault, ever.

I know it was the players fault. I mean Collins is one of the worst players this season for us. Yet he gets automatically selected as a first team player when McLeish has the power to allow Clark instead. He doesn't have to play that big lump of tard Heskey in midfield does he? What on earth was the point of sending Makoun on loan? And he bought Hutton who's been awful in every game and N'Zogbia who didn't even play tonight, even when we're 2-0 down needing a goal, he didn't bother bringing him in. Instead, he thought the master class that are Heskey and Hutton in midfield would have done the job.

Don't make excuses for McLeish. He has the power to change the players who are underperforming but doesn't bother. I would bet my house Collins will start next game despite being costing us 2 goals tonight. McLeish's fault right there.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mazrim on November 21, 2011, 10:38:05 PM
Pathetic. Unacceptable.
No appetite from start to finish to even compete and it was Spurs not Barcelona. Spurs.
The perfect game for baggy face to ease himself back in. I doubt his balloon knot tightened even once. A walkover.

Very, very depressing. The team set up was utter bollocks and I despaired before the kick off and amazingly it managed to go down hill from there with the "performance".
Aston Villa is in need of another revolution yet again because the all too familiar smell of mediocrity at best is stinking the place out.
Get the kids in and get another manager in who'll play them. Gary Gardner can't get in that team? My arse. Hutton?
All those midfielders we have who can play football and he picks Heskey and Hutton in midfield? No, sorry.

I want to see football even if we lose, not whatever that was. Get the Swansea bloke in. He knows how to play the game and he wouldn't cost that much. I have nothing against McLeish but he wouldnt know good football if it was blue, ten foot tall and tea bagging him.


Really annoyed by tonight. I kind f felt it coming but it doesn't help.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Goldie.7 on November 21, 2011, 10:38:06 PM
I see 'Arry taking a dig at us in the post match interview! It was all true though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 21, 2011, 10:39:05 PM
I've seen more effort from a match fixing Pakastani cricket team than that insipid effort.  Our defence is rubbish, Warnock is back to his usual appalling worst, Collins is just going through the motions and Hutton is less than average.  There is no movement in that team what so ever, it's far too static and predictable with players who know they will be picked week in week out regardless. 

Houllier may have lost the dressing room last season but so what, his team put up a far better show than that lot tonight. 2-0 flattered us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 21, 2011, 10:39:26 PM
It almost seemed as though we were trying to defend a 2-0 defeat at times. Truly bizarre.

And why, when losing away from home, didn't we leave Gabby up the pitch when we were defending? Probably the only player on the pitch who could have caused Spurs problems on the break and he's in our penalty area. End result, they only have to leave 1 defender back and as soon as we clear the ball from a set piece it comes straight back at us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2011, 10:40:41 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.

The thing is, Mark, for all the people who care about his Small Heath past, there are a lot more of us who don't give a shite about that, but are very concerned at his pedigree of super negative football.

Tonight is an example of him doing the one thing which will lose him all the goodwill he does have at breakneck speed.

It was spineless and exactly the way he played so often in his previous job. Sorry, but much more of that, and as far as I am concerned, he can fuck off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 10:41:18 PM
I've seen more effort from a match fixing Pakastani cricket team than that insipid effort.  .

First laugh of the night. Thanks, Bren.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 10:42:26 PM
Going to be interesting next month with the games we've got to come and where we're likely to be. Will randy give him the money to bring some badly needed re-inforcements or will he cut his losses and we'll be looking for another mug desperate for a job?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: martyn ellis on November 21, 2011, 10:42:42 PM
And while we're all having a go at our defenders and our team selection and our lack of heart (all justifiable), let's not forget poor ol' Darren; he who gets no service, he who'll be off in the new year, he who is far too good for us. Well he was as dire as the rest of them tonight. Poor movement, falling over all the time, missing sitters, and when he had the ball, giving it straight back to them. None of them get out of there alive tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john2710 on November 21, 2011, 10:44:13 PM
That was every bit as bad as Liverpool away last season. Pathetic from team selection, defensive ability, attacking ability and the managers lack of attempt to correct the situation.

How Heskey stayed on for the full 90 minutes is beyond me?

Why is Collins given the freedom to fuck up week after week after week??

Spurs will not get an easier 90 minutes until they play us again.

SPINELESS - there are no excuses for a performance like that.

Fucking Eck needs to show some bollocks and drop Collins and Heskey.


 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2011, 10:44:22 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.



I think you're being too kind to him.  I don't think it's anything to do with those fans who don't like him, and everything to do with him being the sort of manager who thinks it's a good idea to play Hutton on the right side of midfield.

But anyway, I'm sure Lerner has got his billet doux from Fergie out of its velvet lined casket tonight, and is settling down to read it just one more time, to remind himself that McLeish IS a brilliant manager, and that he hasn't made another pig's ear of a managerial appointment again.  I mean, Sir Alex has got Villa's best interests at heart hasn't he?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mikeb1982 on November 21, 2011, 10:45:03 PM
we are still 8th in the Premier League not 18th

Only because we've had a really easy start to the season, wait till the New Year.

Really easy? We haven't won away all season and it's nearly Christmas!


Points wise we are nearer 20th than 7th.  The table is telling a big fat lie at the moment
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: OzVilla on November 21, 2011, 10:46:37 PM
Going to be interesting next month with the games we've got to come and where we're likely to be. Will randy give him the money to bring some badly needed re-inforcements or will he cut his losses and we'll be looking for another mug desperate for a job?

Randy won't get rid, he's already proved that with Houllier.  Both Man Citeh in the Cup and 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' away last season were worse than tonight.

And even if he did, it's now proven that no one worth their salt will touch us with a barge pole.  Only the likes of AM (as he could see the shit hitting the fan at Blose) and Championship Managers.  That's where we're at - depressing isn't it.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Fergal on November 21, 2011, 10:47:29 PM
I didn't see the game nor did I listen to it but based on the comments on here it seems that AM aimed for a mediocre level and failed to deliver even that.
I don't care where he came from but I do care where he is taking us and how he is getting us there.
Perhaps it's time for Randy to swallow his pride and ask for help from someone who knows about football and cares for Aston Villa.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 10:48:06 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.

The thing is, Mark, for all the people who care about his Small Heath past, there are a lot more of us who don't give a shite about that, but are very concerned at his pedigree of super negative football.

Tonight is an example of him doing the one thing which will lose him all the goodwill he does have at breakneck speed.

It was spineless and exactly the way he played so often in his previous job. Sorry, but much more of that, and as far as I am concerned, he can fuck off.

It was very different on here after the Norwich game. Nobody was complaining, mainly because the morons were probably pissed off we'd won. Don't get me wrong, we were piss poor tonight and to tell the truth, I wasn't very impressed with AM's post match interview. We didn't keep the ball very well? No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 10:48:16 PM
Going to be interesting next month with the games we've got to come and where we're likely to be. Will randy give him the money to bring some badly needed re-inforcements or will he cut his losses and we'll be looking for another mug desperate for a job?

You see, this is why we won't progress. If we give McLeish money he'll burn it like he did on Hutton and N'Zogbia. Fair enough he got Given for a good price, but that's the only thing he's good at. Getting goalkeepers. Everything else he fails on.

But let's say by some miracle Randy finds the bottle to admit his mistake and sack him, he'll probably hire some who's equally as bad. Who actually trusts his judgement now?

No, what needs to happen for this club to progress is to get rid of the deadwood players, get rid of the terrible backroom staff and finally get rid of the board once and for all. We need to start again before they'll take us down.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Clampy on November 21, 2011, 10:48:44 PM
I was disapointed with the line up at the start of the game and i was even more disapointed he perservered with it in the second half at 2-0 down.

If we're going to try and keep it tight against against teams like that and try and catch them on the break, then fine, but you need the right players in the team to do it. Hutton on the wing and Heskey in midfield will not work.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on November 21, 2011, 10:51:11 PM
Y
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

Well some of us don't jump around like a bunch of fairy arsed fan dancers because we like to give the bloke a chance.  He hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he hasnt been a disaster either so the jury is still out.  However, I said I'd give him half a season and make my mind up after the Chelsea game and thats what I'll do but you know I may change my mind and decide he needs 2 seasons in charge.  Howveer, tonight was unacceptable and given a few more of those performances I know what I'll be deciding come January.
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

Well some of us don't jump around like a bunch of fairy arsed fan dancers because we like to give the bloke a chance.  He hasn't been pulling up any trees so far but he hasnt been a disaster either so the jury is still out.  However, I said I'd give him half a season and make my mind up after the Chelsea game and thats what I'll do but you know I may change my mind and decide he needs 2 seasons in charge.  Howveer, tonight was unacceptable and given a few more of those performances I know what I'll be deciding come January.

You calling me a fairy?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 21, 2011, 10:51:43 PM

It was very different on here after the Norwich game. Nobody was complaining, mainly because the morons were probably pissed off we'd won. Don't get me wrong, we were piss poor tonight and to tell the truth, I wasn't very impressed with AM's post match interview. We didn't keep the ball very well? No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.

It was a decent win against Norwich, but we even made hard work of that, and bearing in mind that before then the only teams we'd beaten were Wigan and Blackburn who are comfortably the worst teams in the division it's not surprising that people are pissed off with it all.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: VillaSpen on November 21, 2011, 10:53:49 PM
A few things stand out for me tonight:
1) The fact that the clubs I would expect to finish in the top 6 are now a decent distance from the rest of us. I know there's a long way to go but our chances of finishing closer to the top 6 than the bottom 6 are looking increasingly remote with every 'performance'.
2) A troubling number of our players seem to take the fact that they're at an established top-flight club for granted. As mentioned previously, the Norwich and Swansea players seem to genuinely enjoy playing in the Premier League and are doing themselves proud at this moment in time. Their squads are no bigger or more expensive than ours so surely it is a matter of motivation and philosophy.
3) Again, mentioned to death in prior posts but our almost complete lack of desire and ambition and inability to even look remotely interested is extremely worrying.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2011, 10:53:57 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.

The thing is, Mark, for all the people who care about his Small Heath past, there are a lot more of us who don't give a shite about that, but are very concerned at his pedigree of super negative football.

Tonight is an example of him doing the one thing which will lose him all the goodwill he does have at breakneck speed.

It was spineless and exactly the way he played so often in his previous job. Sorry, but much more of that, and as far as I am concerned, he can fuck off.

It was very different on here after the Norwich game. Nobody was complaining, mainly because the morons were probably pissed off we'd won. Don't get me wrong, we were piss poor tonight and to tell the truth, I wasn't very impressed with AM's post match interview. We didn't keep the ball very well? No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.

No. McLeish is MON without the money, and without even the Plan  A.

I don't really get why you're directing so much of your anger at other fans, though. 

Personally, I couldn't give a flying fuck if there are some fans who won't give him a chance regardless. Tonight was entirely of his own doing, it wasn't fear of fans reaction that made him played like that. That's *exactly* how he'd have played his Blues side in that fixture.

The only difference is that rather than Cameron Jerome plodding around in front of the ten man defence, it was Darren Bent.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Phil from the upper holte on November 21, 2011, 10:54:13 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

what do you mean 'where have you been'  Mcliesh hasnt played with a defensive 6 before tonight, in fact some of his team selections at the start of the season were critesized for being to positive,
i have always said that AM's DNA as a manager was for this type of football, but tonight is the first time with us that he's gone balls out to prove it,
i personanly hate it, but he's not been playing this way all season to be fair, unfortunatly his true colours are shining through

I wasn't referring to you john. I wasn't referring to anyone, there have been quite a few times I've questioned selection and tactics not just tonight
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Irish villain on November 21, 2011, 10:54:59 PM
From top to bottom we are a fuckign shambles. Nothing I've seen since August 2010. No scrap that, May 2010 has convinced me otherwise.

Randy needs to show some leadership. If he's sticking with McLeish he needs to back him in the January window even if it involves having to borrow. We have been on a slippery slope for a very long time and the way the whole thing has fallen apart with such speed is a real cause for concern. What sort of structures have we got in place??
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: tarzansbrother on November 21, 2011, 11:10:52 PM
From top to bottom we are a fuckign shambles. Nothing I've seen since August 2010. No scrap that, May 2010 has convinced me otherwise.

Randy needs to show some leadership. If he's sticking with McLeish he needs to back him in the January window even if it involves having to borrow. We have been on a slippery slope for a very long time and the way the whole thing has fallen apart with such speed is a real cause for concern. What sort of structures have we got in place??

Lerners leadership is advice from Sir Alex and sorting his sons school out for 6 months. No wonder our players are partying.

Playing for us at the moment is a very comfortable living, no wonder Collins wants a new deal.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Jimbo on November 21, 2011, 11:11:57 PM
Here's a prediction: McLeish will not work out at Villa.

But Randy should never consider getting rid until he has a football person at the club to advise him on who to get and, more importantly, how to go about getting him. At the moment, Randy and Faulkner are like pig farmers in charge of a spaceship. It's only going to go in one direction.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Somniloquism on November 21, 2011, 11:13:46 PM
It was very different on here after the Norwich game. Nobody was complaining, mainly because the morons were probably pissed off we'd won. Don't get me wrong, we were piss poor tonight and to tell the truth, I wasn't very impressed with AM's post match interview. We didn't keep the ball very well? No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.

I'm sure most people were stating that they were surprised we won that and didn't let in a last minute goal, our defenders were woeful and Hutton/ Ireland weren't very good players minimum, but a win will always temper arguments even if it is only papering over the issues.

But we have not truly dominated one match this season in a similar way we were dominated tonight, especially considering that we only have two more of the bottom ten to play after Swansea.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 11:15:44 PM
But we no longer have the kind of players that can play on the counter the way barry, milner and young did. Hutton & Heskey out wide??? The tactic tonight was to frustrate Spurs and hold on for a 0-0. When we made a gigantic cock up of that after 30 mins, AM should of been working on who to bring on in for the second half. And how we can then take the game to spurs and try and make a go of it. Instead he did nothing. Bad, Bad man

Sad times.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 11:16:36 PM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.

The thing is, Mark, for all the people who care about his Small Heath past, there are a lot more of us who don't give a shite about that, but are very concerned at his pedigree of super negative football.

Tonight is an example of him doing the one thing which will lose him all the goodwill he does have at breakneck speed.

It was spineless and exactly the way he played so often in his previous job. Sorry, but much more of that, and as far as I am concerned, he can fuck off.

It was very different on here after the Norwich game. Nobody was complaining, mainly because the morons were probably pissed off we'd won. Don't get me wrong, we were piss poor tonight and to tell the truth, I wasn't very impressed with AM's post match interview. We didn't keep the ball very well? No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.

No. McLeish is MON without the money, and without even the Plan  A.

I don't really get why you're directing so much of your anger at other fans, though. 

Personally, I couldn't give a flying fuck if there are some fans who won't give him a chance regardless. Tonight was entirely of his own doing, it wasn't fear of fans reaction that made him played like that. That's *exactly* how he'd have played his Blues side in that fixture.

The only difference is that rather than Cameron Jerome plodding around in front of the ten man defence, it was Darren Bent.

There's some rewriting of history there, Paulie. His Rags team were 9th before winning the League Cup. He had a load of injuries after and that was the main reason they went down. Even the Noses that hate him admit it.

What concerns me is that we're in the middle of November and he still doesn't have a settled side. He took off Herd tonight to bring on Delph. Since when has Delph been a defensive midfielder? He was a great box to box player at Leeds. Bannan on, for who, Heskey? No. Hutton. Hutton is utter shite but he takes Carlos off and moves Hutton back to right back.

If he wanted to play a more defensive side he could have played 5 across the midfield and given Bent a night off, leaving Gabby up front by himself. Bent, like Friedel, was a bloody spectator tonight such was the lack of service and when he did get a chance he fluffed it.

He desperately needs to find a settled side but you just know Heskey will be in his side. He has a Plan A but like MON's, it's stuck in the last century.

Anybody else hear Redknapp tonight saying how if he didn't enjoy watching his teams play, he'd give up football. Bastard that he is, Spurs are a delight to watch at times, even in second gear like tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 11:24:54 PM
Hate to say this but i'd probably sell bent in January if we could get what we paid for him. In a AM side he's as much use as a chocolate teapot and if we can re-inforce the midfield and defence its probably a price worth paying. then again if gabby got injured we'd be f**ked
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 21, 2011, 11:25:22 PM
Yes, and they also played dreadfully negative football. Even the noses said it, there's no rewriting of history in that whatsoever.

Tonight was void of ambition right from the off. We didn't even try to get the ball back. We played for a draw till we conceded, then switched to playing to keep the score down.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Louzie0 on November 21, 2011, 11:26:27 PM
Sell Bent?  Are you mad?

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 21, 2011, 11:28:27 PM
We played for a draw till we conceded, then switched to playing to keep the score down.

In a nutshell
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 11:30:45 PM
Sell Bent?  Are you mad?



he's a shadow of his form last season. he likes it passed on the floor to his feet - not something he's gonna get in an AM team
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Somniloquism on November 21, 2011, 11:31:39 PM

There's some rewriting of history there, Paulie. His Rags team were 9th before winning the League Cup. He had a load of injuries after and that was the main reason they went down. Even the Noses that hate him admit it.

What concerns me is that we're in the middle of November and he still doesn't have a settled side. He took off Herd tonight to bring on Delph. Since when has Delph been a defensive midfielder? He was a great box to box player at Leeds. Bannan on, for who, Heskey? No. Hutton. Hutton is utter shite but he takes Carlos off and moves Hutton back to right back.

If he wanted to play a more defensive side he could have played 5 across the midfield and given Bent a night off, leaving Gabby up front by himself. Bent, like Friedel, was a bloody spectator tonight such was the lack of service and when he did get a chance he fluffed it.

He desperately needs to find a settled side but you just know Heskey will be in his side. He has a Plan A but like MON's, it's stuck in the last century.

Anybody else hear Redknapp tonight saying how if he didn't enjoy watching his teams play, he'd give up football. Bastard that he is, Spurs are a delight to watch at times, even in second gear like tonight.

Even when they were getting 9th they were playing defensively and scored an average of a goal a game. He wasn't setting the world on fire with brilliant attacking displays.

And he has been playing Delph as a defensive midfielder all season with Petrov getting forward more. I agree with the rest of your concerns though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: caster troy on November 21, 2011, 11:32:28 PM
Absolutely dire. A deadly combination of no desire, no ability and no belief.

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I'm expecting some giant 'We told you so' banners in the Holte End around mid January.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Archie on November 21, 2011, 11:32:49 PM
Two right backs in the team, with Hutton (Hutton) on the right wing, whereas even my cat (Gwyneth) would understand that only two real wingers could try to keep Lennon and Bale low.
SuperMark Albrighton at home.
Barry Bannan on the bench.
Two clowns in the centre of the defence.
Emile Heskey in the midfield.
One of the less motivated side that I have ever seen, we couldn't find three passes in a row. As you have written: no desire, no ability and no belief.

If Randy has no money to invest, I could accept without  problems one or two seasons of transition as long as we  got rid of Mc Leish and 6-7 of those overpaid, old, average players to play Albrighton, Bannan, Herd, Delph and Clarke in order to see which level they can reach. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 21, 2011, 11:34:01 PM
we have gone from Ashley Young and w***er Downing on the wings to Heskey and Hutton on the wings.  Sad Times
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mike Jeffries on November 21, 2011, 11:38:09 PM
A few things stand out for me tonight:
1) The fact that the clubs I would expect to finish in the top 6 are now a decent distance from the rest of us. I know there's a long way to go but our chances of finishing closer to the top 6 than the bottom 6 are looking increasingly remote with every 'performance'.
2) A troubling number of our players seem to take the fact that they're at an established top-flight club for granted. As mentioned previously, the Norwich and Swansea players seem to genuinely enjoy playing in the Premier League and are doing themselves proud at this moment in time. Their squads are no bigger or more expensive than ours so surely it is a matter of motivation and philosophy.
3) Again, mentioned to death in prior posts but our almost complete lack of desire and ambition and inability to even look remotely interested is extremely worrying.

Re: 2) and 3), this under a manager they have just about all said is so much better than the nasty last one. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villajk on November 21, 2011, 11:38:44 PM
Train just left Euston.

That was an awful performance.  No positives that I can think of to say about it.  What a waste of time and money.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: curiousorange on November 21, 2011, 11:40:11 PM
Wake me up when we show some sodding ambition, please.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 21, 2011, 11:41:16 PM
Absolutely dire. A deadly combination of no desire, no ability and no belief.

Looking at our upcoming fixtures I'm expecting some giant 'We told you so' banners in the Holte End around mid January.



Aye. said when he arrived it would be a carcrash and my opinion hasn't changed. Its like Graham at spurs - any other manager would have been given a bit of leeway but the ABAM contigent will make sure its a battle of wills between themselves and Lerner. He really knows nowt about the culture of english football
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Louzie0 on November 21, 2011, 11:41:34 PM
Sell Bent?  Are you mad?



he's a shadow of his form last season. he likes it passed on the floor to his feet - not something he's gonna get in an AM team

He's had it enough to be 5th with Gabby on the premiership scoring table.
Why on earth would we break up a partnership like that?

Forget tonight.  As Scarlett said, tomorrow is another day.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Stu on November 21, 2011, 11:41:40 PM
It was spineless and exactly the way he played so often in his previous job. Sorry, but much more of that, and as far as I am concerned, he can fuck off.

The thing is we ALL knew that it was going to be like this. I can't believe he's our manager, he's fucking shit, what were the board thinking?

He was an utterly dreadful appointment which stank of a lack of ambition back in the summer, now the proof is on the pitch.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 11:42:24 PM
Even when they were getting 9th they were playing defensively and scored an average of a goal a game. He wasn't setting the world on fire with brilliant attacking displays.

That may have something to do with the fact he never had a striker. I take it we're not going to class Cameron Jerome as a striker.

And he has been playing Delph as a defensive midfielder all season with Petrov getting forward more. I agree with the rest of your concerns though.
Unsurprisingly, Delph basically failed as a defensive midfielder, so why persist, even if it was only for 5 minutes. There's a good footballer in there but not a defensive midfielder. As for Petrov, apart from cutting Bale in half, I forgot he was playing tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Small Rodent on November 21, 2011, 11:43:04 PM
That was awful. If this was Italy there would be allegations of match-fixing. If it was the FA Cup we would have been derided.

But astonishingly when I look at the table, the only team above us I'm surprised at is Newcastle.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 21, 2011, 11:45:18 PM
Newcastle believed in themselves against Spurs and it paid off. We just took it from behind and that's unforgivable. I just can't see why any fan would make up excuses for a manager who sets us up that way.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 21, 2011, 11:46:25 PM
Lee Clarke , paul Lambert or Brendan Rodgers . Anyone please .
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: jonzy85 on November 21, 2011, 11:49:02 PM
Midfield of Hutton - Herd - Petrov - Heskey......is that our worst ever?

I almost felt sorry for the defence with that in front of them. Herd looked out of his depth tonioght, but that might be a bit harsh  considering what he was being asked to do.

It seemed that Herd was supposed to be keeping an eye on VDV, which left Petrov chasing the shadows between Modric and Parker. The two lads up front looked lost.

How did AMcL think the game would turn out any other way than it did? Like a lot of posters, I have been reluctant to get on his back, but that line up, then the reluctance to change it was terrible management.

Gary Neville and Danny Murphy in as co-managers....at least they can spot the problems!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rudy Can't Fail on November 21, 2011, 11:56:42 PM
Gary Neville and Danny Murphy in as co-managers....at least they can spot the problems!

Southgate and Townsend had it spot on too. They were very objective and had nothing good to say about us. I got the feeling they were embarrassed for us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SteveD on November 21, 2011, 11:59:25 PM
A performance and team reflective of the club in general - no ambition. If you're going to park a bus, at least make sure it's not on bricks. Spurs have moved way ahead of us (they are turning down the likes of £30m for Modric, we're buying Hutton), so the result is no surprise. What was disappointing was the overall attitude. They were chasing a third when we were either too inept to keep the ball or interested enough to push forward looking for one. I've absolutely no issue with where McLeish comes from either, couldn't give a monkeys. He just happens to be the horse for the particularly aimless course we're on.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Louzie0 on November 22, 2011, 12:00:39 AM
Newcastle believed in themselves against Spurs and it paid off. We just took it from behind and that's unforgivable. I just can't see why any fan would make up excuses for a manager who sets us up that way.

'Not only a draw would be extremely difficult to get, but a win would be impossible. Come on now, use your head. We have a non-existent midfield, a collapsible defence and a tactically clueless manager. Gabby won't have the ability to one man our team to a draw against a top 6 on form side away from home, nevermind a victory.'
(Pre-match thread)


So, goodness me. You must be very happy.  We lost a match and you foretold it.  Glee!!  Who do we shoot first?

Can we keep enough players to turn out against Swansea?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Hopadop on November 22, 2011, 12:00:51 AM
The Spurs fans around me were moaning that they should have had five or six, and that their goal difference wasn't improved enough.

That was it. No question they weren't going to win comfortably after the first 30 seconds. We've become goal difference fodder.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 22, 2011, 12:01:31 AM
Midfield of Hutton - Herd - Petrov - Heskey......is that our worst ever?

I almost felt sorry for the defence with that in front of them. Herd looked out of his depth tonioght, but that might be a bit harsh  considering what he was being asked to do.

It seemed that Herd was supposed to be keeping an eye on VDV, which left Petrov chasing the shadows between Modric and Parker. The two lads up front looked lost.

How did AMcL think the game would turn out any other way than it did? Like a lot of posters, I have been reluctant to get on his back, but that line up, then the reluctance to change it was terrible management.

Gary Neville and Danny Murphy in as co-managers....at least they can spot the problems!


yep. select two guy's in midfield who can't pass accurately more than 5 foot in either direction, stick in a kid and 30+ midfielder breathing out his ass.. just suicidal against a midfield like VDV, modric and parker. Even in terms of keeping the score down it looks a daft midfield
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villajk on November 22, 2011, 12:07:58 AM
If it makes anybody feel any better we've a friggin 25 minute wait at Milton Keynes.  What a crap night.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mazrim on November 22, 2011, 12:09:43 AM
If it makes anybody feel any better we've a friggin 25 minute wait at Milton Keynes.  What a crap night.

You have my sympathies.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villajk on November 22, 2011, 12:13:20 AM
If it makes anybody feel any better we've a friggin 25 minute wait at Milton Keynes.  What a crap night.

You have my sympathies.

Thank you.  A bit of solidarity doesn't go amiss under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt on November 22, 2011, 12:14:15 AM
I got to the pub a minute before kick off so didn't see any of the build up. I thought we were superb tonight for the first 37 seconds.

Then... I witnessed probably the most gutless, inept, pathetic, spineless, effortless, lilly livered shower of shite in many a year.

A centre back at right back, a right back on the wing, a defensive striker on the other wing, two centre backs and left back who make the same fucking mistakes every week as well as a central midfielder with the stamina of an asthmatic donkey. An £18m striker who can't score from more than 6 yards out. 

A £10m winger who has shown his best form over the last two games gets dropped and a drunk driver gets to play before a young kid who can cross a ball to our forwards.

As for bringing on Delph on 85 minutes what the fuck was the point in that? How the fuck does Heskey even get on the subs bench? I wouldn't give him the steam off my piss never mind £60,000 a week. I don't give a fuck that he runs around a lot. Give me £600 a week and i'll do the same - and i won't fall over as much as that tumbling bear.

A few weeks back McLeish said he would drop anyone who wouldn't follow his instructions, particularly with regard to defending set pieces. So, take a look at Adebayor's first goal..how similar to Ballotelli's a few weeks back? As for the 2nd goal tonight? You wouldn't see that at West Smethwick Park.

Still, with Randy worried about his kid at school, General Krulak teaching at another school and that helpless Paul Faulkner in charge is it any wonder we're in the state we are? It's no wonder the players don't perform when there is no leadership on any level within our club.

Fair play to those that wasted more money going to Spurzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: CJ on November 22, 2011, 12:15:26 AM
If it makes anybody feel any better we've a friggin 25 minute wait at Milton Keynes.  What a crap night.

If it's any consolation my son was watching it in a bar in Reykjavik with beer at £5.80 a bottle!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Matt C on November 22, 2011, 12:21:26 AM
I picked a good time to be far away from the UK by the sounds of it.

Two clubs not all that long ago fighting similar battles now heading in very different directions.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villajk on November 22, 2011, 12:25:13 AM
If it makes anybody feel any better we've a friggin 25 minute wait at Milton Keynes.  What a crap night.

If it's any consolation my son was watching it in a bar in Reykjavik with beer at £5.80 a bottle!

He has my sympathy but it's no consolation as I've had no alcohol.  I could murder a beer or glass of wine mind, but not allowed.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Iago on November 22, 2011, 12:25:25 AM
We looked awful and disjointed, and made elementary mistakes. Embarrassing to be associated with the club.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Pete3206 on November 22, 2011, 12:26:30 AM
I suggest McCleish tries this in midfield, rather than Heskey for the next game.

(http://trashbinrental.com/images/bins/3cuyd.jpg)
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Dave Clark Five on November 22, 2011, 12:26:42 AM
Wake me up when we show some sodding ambition, please.
Don't expect this in January.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ray Graydon on November 22, 2011, 12:28:33 AM
Just feel gutted, there was just so many things wrong

The set up of the team was all wrong, spineless, cowardly & lacking any pretence of going for a victory. This is exactly what the noses kept telling me he would bring to the club & it looks like they were right. I can accept a loss if we have give it a go but we were second best by such a margin it was frightening.

Mcleish needs to realise that sort of shit might be acceptable across the city but we deserve & expect better. His interview afterwards on 5live bemoaned missed chances - "if we had took our couple of chances it would have been a different game". Fuck me if Spurs had took theirs it could have been 10!!! Take some fucking responsibility for your team selection!!

We have no creativity, can't hold the ball & played without any fighting spirit, it needs to change & quick. We lack leaders on the pitch & haven't the players or the tactical awareness to  change a game when things start to go against us.

I don't just blame Mcleish, the players need to front up & produce better than what was on show tonight.

Clark & Albrighton must be wondering how they can't get a game when we are performing like this, but certain players seem to play like shite week in & week out but are guarrenteed selection (collins, Hutton, Heskey). I hope we don't lose our young talent because we keep playing players who have had more than enough chances.

I think we will be in real trouble come the New Year but hope i'm wrong.

Performances like this just aren't good enough & it's been a while since I've felt that this is just the beginning, the worst is yet to come. Mcleish shouldn't underestimate the effect a performance like this can have on a season.

He & the players better come out fighting against Swansea.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eamonn on November 22, 2011, 12:39:34 AM
Haven't read the thread, and only caught brief highlights on SkySportsNews.
This evening I was asked to volunteer and pack up some shoe boxes full of toys wrapped in Christmas wrapping that are being sent to disadvantaged kids in Russia, the Ukraine and parts of Africa next month. So I did.
A bit annoyed about missing the match but not majorly. I thought we would have showed some bottle at least but by the sounds of things we certainly didn't and I'm glad I didn't stay in to watch us show how a new mediocrity has tightened it's grip on the Villa.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Vanilla on November 22, 2011, 12:40:22 AM
'Our game plan is, don't concede a goal'.

'What do we do boss if we concede a goal'.

'Just keep kicking ball about until ref blows for full time'.

Game summed up by when Gabby took the ball down the left wing, turned around and saw no one and was forced to pass it back in the direction of the half way line.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ray Graydon on November 22, 2011, 12:48:12 AM
I suggest McCleish tries this in midfield, rather than Heskey for the next game.

(http://trashbinrental.com/images/bins/3cuyd.jpg)


Let's get the signing on fee sorted & put it straight in against Swansea!!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: coreyfeldman on November 22, 2011, 01:19:06 AM
bent is playing so badly at the moment and gabby is playing so well, why are we playing gabby through the middle? he's our only goal threat. as to heskey playing another 90 minutes as a midfielder???????? fuck me what's happening to our club, where's the positivity??
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villaparkb6 on November 22, 2011, 01:21:38 AM
McLeish needs to grow a pair of balls and forget about the planks who are dying to jump on his back because he came from the Rags. If he's going to let a few morons make him so defensive, so bloody negative, so scared of losing, he should never have taken the job in the first place.

Shape up or ship out.

Jesus your a dreamer, no wonder your on cloud 9, no one at villapark has frightened mcleish  into defensive mode, he's shit, he's always been the same that's why he got the scum relegated twice in three years and even managed to finish third in the SPL with Rangers,  tell me how that record qualify's you for a crack at managing the Villa, he's got to go, simple
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: The Left Side on November 22, 2011, 01:36:14 AM
That was dreadful, I turned it off after half time, as many said the words useless and cowards spring to mind.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: luke25 on November 22, 2011, 01:43:58 AM
I'm not going to repeat what most have said as its fucking obvious, the thing thats pissed me off tonite, more than anything else is for the 4th or 5th time this season, our shots on target have been either 0 or 1, that is embarrasing, and another thing, get Collins out the defence and stick Clark in there, firstly he's naturally comfortable on the ball, secondly he does'nt hoof the fucking thing at every opportunity and also it stops another Cahill situation arising, theres been 3 or 4 'performances' over the past 18 months when I've truly been ashamed of the whole club, Liverpool, Man City twice and now tonight, its just not fucking acceptable, Randy Lerner your a nice guy with good intentions but you could'nt have got it more wrong last summer if you tried.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villainjock on November 22, 2011, 01:54:54 AM
i was told by many a bluenose what to expect,shit football, defending and trying to score an odd goal wimbledon style,no-one supporting the counter attack, i told them to piss off, it would be a different story at the villa , we've got a great youth set up, darren bent,  great midfielders.Tonight i watched the game. we played one recoignised midfielder, 6 defenders and 3 forwards, now i have a scary feeling in my stomach, it is not a one off,IT IS A REGULAR PATTERN we are playing the worst football, i have seen personally, since jo venglos ,danny murphy summed us up tonight, " i am suprised how easy it is for tottenham tonight""VILLA HAVE COME HERE TO DEFEND".They took their main men off after 70 minutes and put inexperienced players on.i have stuck by mccleish and argued in favour of him since he was appointed. but the football is depressing,shit, if i was a neutral i would have turned over a long time ago,WE ARE NOT BLUES RANDY, WE ARE ASTON VILLA!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2011, 01:56:18 AM
The team section was a joke.    What followed was predicable. The most annoying thing is that we have players in the squad that could have done MUCH better. AM please fuck off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TonyD on November 22, 2011, 02:10:49 AM
What happened tonight is down to the manager. He should have picked a better team. My old socks in my wash basket would have picked a better team and they are just a mix of fibres without any kind of intelligence.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Muscle-Dolphin on November 22, 2011, 02:27:33 AM
If the Villa keep playing like this they are going to loose a lot of fans.  Boy, the guys on the aftershow basically slagged McLeish.  I think that Lerner is a typical guy that has inherited a lot of money - he's not willing to put the time or effort into a lot of things as he's had things handed to him on a silver platter.  Christ, some people are actually starting to ask me why I bother to continue to support the Villa when their style of play is super boring!!!  What's the point of cheering for a team that doesn't even care themselves?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: KRS on November 22, 2011, 02:34:14 AM
I feel grateful that it was only 2-0...it could easily have been a lot worse.
Even saying this makes a mockery of what Aston Villa has become.

1 shot on target again?
Conceding 70% possession again?

Not good enough and not acceptable.


Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: BC54 VFC on November 22, 2011, 02:40:11 AM
Highlight of the evening was chatting with some East Kent Villans in the Haringey Irish Centre before the game, and some good beer. Oh, and congratulations to the Villa guy in front of us, in the wheelchair, who in the 89th minute managed to speed along the track, halfway to the dugout; he was chased by a steward and eventually apprehended - brilliant, and the highlight of the 90 minutes.

Low point was what was served up on the pitch - poor team selection - and the crap driving of the driver on the official travellers club coach; he needs to be taught that you don't have to jam your brakes on every couple of minutes; you should anticipate a slowing down of traffic and reduce speed accordingly. Several people banged their heads on the seat in front on the M25, on the return journey. Christ, he had to jam his breaks on to stop running over people on the zebra crossing in Witton Lane as we departed from VP this p.m. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Simba on November 22, 2011, 04:17:30 AM
Can't even park the bus right can we?

What a depressing shambles of a performance. What a kick in the teeth when not long ago we were considered the team that might break through ahead of Spuds.

A.Mcl has lost me now, and it would seem I am not alone. If he continues like this and he loses Villa Park it is gonna get ugly down there. The Villa fans have been very, very patient. But not  for much longer I think.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Simba on November 22, 2011, 04:30:16 AM
Just looking at the table and it makes for worrying times given our up coming fixtures. We can't feel complacent when we are seven points off the team (Arsenal) above us and only eight points from a relegation spot.

Some stats worry me and confirm  what we are watching and unfortunately do nothing to help A.Mcl's reputation:

Total Shots: 100. That is NINETEENTH in the table above only Stoke.
Shots on Target: 36. NINETEENTH in table above Stoke.

Some could point out that we have scored sixteen goals so the conversion rate is good. Fine but the stats prove that we a re not creating chances.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Fergal on November 22, 2011, 04:58:35 AM
I suggest McCleish tries this in midfield, rather than Heskey for the next game.

(http://trashbinrental.com/images/bins/3cuyd.jpg)


Let's get the signing on fee sorted & put it straight in against Swansea!!
65K a week should do it...
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: willywombat on November 22, 2011, 05:06:12 AM
I have to admit after that 'performance' I'm having my doubts about Eck. Many more embarassing capitulations like that and he's going to be in deep shit
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eastie on November 22, 2011, 05:24:24 AM
For the 1st time in 33 years supporting the club i actually turned the tv over and watched corrie after the 2nd goal as i knew we were dead and buried-extremely worried about the lack of leadership and ambition and i can see us quickly being overtaken in the ambition stakes by the likes of stoke and sunderland-very dark and bad times ahead under this regime i feel !
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TopDeck113 on November 22, 2011, 06:19:41 AM
Like others, I gave up at half time - and was actually surprised when I heard the final score that Spurs hadn't at least doubled their tally.

I don't know which is the biggest cause for concern: the lack of leadership from the owner, the absence of a ballsy Chief Exec, a defensive-minded manager who - as far as Villa fans are concerned - has the worst lines possible on his CV , mediocre players who seem content to go through the motions or supporters who are increasingly turning their back on the side.

There's more than a whiff of 1986 in the air around Villa Park. 

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Eigentor on November 22, 2011, 06:34:53 AM
Despite that the previous manager was nasty and killed all the joy in football with his talk of 'training', 'composure' and 'passing the ball', I don't see that his departure has resulted in better football. Apart from a few dire examples from last season, I'd say it's worse.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: olaftab on November 22, 2011, 06:36:56 AM
Assou-Ekotto made a comment a few weeks ago about the demise of Aston Villa. Last night was the chance to ram it down his throat however Eck and Collins & Co did their best to prove him 100% right.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: OzVilla on November 22, 2011, 06:53:19 AM
Assou-Ekotto made a comment a few weeks ago about the demise of Aston Villa. Last night was the chance to ram it down his throat however Eck and Collins & Co did their best to prove him 100% right.

He was 100% right

''Let's not sell our best players or we'll turn into Aston Villa'' the inference being that we've sold all our decent talent and are now a bunch of de-motivated journeyman footballers that at best will make up the numbers with the only possibility of any excitement being a relagation battle.

Not sure that Stan, Collins and Gabby wouldn't have been nodding along if they were told that in the dressing room.

The Villa are nothing more than a celebration of mediocraty right now.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: simboy on November 22, 2011, 06:58:31 AM
Gutless, witless and hopeless
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JD on November 22, 2011, 07:09:48 AM
22 shots v 3 shots
70% possession v 30%.

It was Spurzzzzzz for fuck sake not Barcelona. The minute I saw the team selection I knew we were doomed.
This isn't the Villa I love. I don't mind losing** if we at least attempt to win, but tonight was a disgrace and now I have to face my family, who are all Yiddos.  >:( >:(

Fucking gutless.

**Well I do mind, but you know what I mean.     
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: rutski on November 22, 2011, 07:24:56 AM
For the 1st time in 33 years supporting the club i actually turned the tv over and watched corrie after the 2nd goal as i knew we were dead and buried-extremely worried about the lack of leadership and ambition and i can see us quickly being overtaken in the ambition stakes by the likes of stoke and sunderland-very dark and bad times ahead under this regime i feel !
i didnt, i like to have a subjective view and cannot if i am looking a rosie websters tits!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 22, 2011, 07:45:36 AM
Though the players were woeful last night,Mccleish is doing what most of us expected,turning us into a negative,tactically awful team.

Theres no excuses for a midfield of Hutton and Heskey,I dread to think what Bent and Gab must think of the service they're getting.

Can't see it getting any better.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 22, 2011, 07:48:37 AM
the only plus point I can see is that David Cameron might come to see that if Plan A doesn't work then sticking with it will only lead to defeat so we must have a Plan B......if he sees that then he might  as well come down here and run the team  because AM certainly couldn't see a Plan B.

Warnock hardly got an effective tackle in and the positioning of Warnock & Collins was dire, they looked as if their satnavs got turned off , they must have Menieres disease because they fell over so often.

Too many lazy old men picking up fat cheques for only performing at their level and not upping their game against 'bigger clubs'
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: brian green on November 22, 2011, 07:51:02 AM
Exactly rutski and it was not a million years ago the Coronation Street fans were tearing into those of us who have said from the outset that Alex McLeish was a disastrous appointment of the wrong man at the wrong time.

What happened last night was totally predictable from the minute we heard that Randy had flown to Corsica to talk to McLeish.   It will happen again regularly.   Brace yourselves for it.   The ride is going to shake out the armchair fans.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 22, 2011, 07:52:21 AM
where is the pride ?
where is the hunger?

Ship a few of them out to Doncaster Rovers......and I don't mean the young ones
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Legion on November 22, 2011, 07:54:41 AM
I have no problem with losing to a better team. I have a massive problem with the manner of our defeat. A ridiculous team selection set out to go for 0-0 from the start and then damage limitation set in. Abject, spineless, negative performance. Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 22, 2011, 07:56:23 AM
For the 1st time in 33 years supporting the club i actually turned the tv over and watched corrie after the 2nd goal as i knew we were dead and buried-extremely worried about the lack of leadership and ambition and i can see us quickly being overtaken in the ambition stakes by the likes of stoke and sunderland-very dark and bad times ahead under this regime i feel !

In fairness, Coronation Street is rather good.

Certainly more attack minded.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: philthebar on November 22, 2011, 08:02:07 AM
I've tried to post on here a few times this morning, but can't put my thoughts into a proper sentence.

Speechless! Just Speechless!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 22, 2011, 08:09:18 AM
Last nights "performance" and result was of no surprise.

It was the sort of showing that many predicted back in July.  The problem is that due to the easy run of fixtures and our not entirely disastrous start, some had forgotten what type of manager Alex Mcleish is.  Tonight was a stark reminder.

Yes the players selected were poor, but he selected them.  There were some decent players not playing tonight, certainly better options available than Heskey and Hutton in midfield.  Why was Ireland rewarded after some good performances with being dropped?  Why has N'Zogbia been left out after finally showing some signs of form?  Why does our manager rate Emile Heskey as a world class midfielder?

Expect to see a lot of changes for Swansea, but I won't be indulging in any breath holding.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: VillaAlways on November 22, 2011, 08:10:59 AM
I'm absolutely convinced Bent will be looking for a move in January and who can blame him ? I just can't believe how far we have fallen. We'll be in the bottom 5 by January. Paul Merson said we could be the dark horses for relegation and I think he's right !!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: UsualSuspect on November 22, 2011, 08:19:14 AM
Last night was on par with performances from our relegation season

No tactics, no hunger, no leadership, no anything

That wanker AM was urging the players on at 86 mins, do do what exactly?

We will be in the bottom 6 come January and Swansea is going to be tough, they like to play football and knock the ball around so I fully expect us to have darren bent in right midfield and bannan at right back
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Clampy on November 22, 2011, 08:19:31 AM
His game plan last night was fine, but he got his team selection very very wrong. He could have gone with the same back four, gone with a 5 man midfield with Petrov, Bannan and Herd (on the right hand side of the three to help protect the full back when needed). Gabby and N'Zogbia out wide and Bent up top. We might have still lost the game. but we might have created a few more chances.

Instead it was defend and give the ball to Gabby to run at them. Not good.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Legion on November 22, 2011, 08:24:19 AM
Match Report (Auntie) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15716030.stm)
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Legion on November 22, 2011, 08:24:51 AM
Match Report (Pravda) (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2523532,00.html)
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Legion on November 22, 2011, 08:26:33 AM
The view from McLeish (http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2523561,00.html)
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 22, 2011, 08:29:39 AM
Given Herd Cuellar and Dunne were the only ones to have put in a reasonable shift last night...

the number of times the ball was passed back to cleared upfield for King to win it in the air was mind numbing

No thought of playing it from the back and building up a patient move through a midfield where admittedly it will be lost most likely but at least it might have improved our possession statistics.

Or is the mentality just hoof it clear and its not my fault....utter rubbish..

Gabby was most frustrated and when we had three forwards all within 3 feet of each other , that was on the touch line, well that summed it up for me ......headless chickens have more brains
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 22, 2011, 08:31:32 AM
Last night was on par with performances from our relegation season

No tactics, no hunger, no leadership, no anything

That wanker AM was urging the players on at 86 mins, do do what exactly?

We will be in the bottom 6 come January and Swansea is going to be tough, they like to play football and knock the ball around so I fully expect us to have darren bent in right midfield and bannan at right back

Surely you mean Bannan upfront and Bent at right back?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: VillaAlways on November 22, 2011, 08:35:18 AM
If the likes of Norwich and Swansea believe they can compete with Man U Why the hell can't we compete with Spurs.Dark,dark days.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: nick harper on November 22, 2011, 08:38:15 AM
Given Herd Cuellar and Dunne were the only ones to have put in a reasonable shift last night...

the number of times the ball was passed back to cleared upfield for King to win it in the air was mind numbing

No thought of playing it from the back and building up a patient move through a midfield where admittedly it will be lost most likely but at least it might have improved our possession statistics.

Or is the mentality just hoof it clear and its not my fault....utter rubbish..

Gabby was most frustrated and when we had three forwards all within 3 feet of each other , that was on the touch line, well that summed it up for me ......headless chickens have more brains

Spurs had a hunger to win the ball back that we failed to show throughout the game. That was clearly their game plan as they knew it would just get knocked long.

Lack of ability to retain the ball from the back is a weakness other teams have picked up on.

Despite some of the disasters last season, I'm beginning to pine for Houllier's brand of football. At least he tried to ensure the team passed to each other and picked players to do that.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: UsualSuspect on November 22, 2011, 08:40:36 AM
Last night was on par with performances from our relegation season

No tactics, no hunger, no leadership, no anything

That wanker AM was urging the players on at 86 mins, do do what exactly?

We will be in the bottom 6 come January and Swansea is going to be tough, they like to play football and knock the ball around so I fully expect us to have darren bent in right midfield and bannan at right back

Surely you mean Bannan upfront and Bent at right back?

of course what was i thinking!

I mean playing a player in midfield who isn't a midfielder and leaving your recognised midfielders at home or on the bench would just be stupid....
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: lordmcgrath5 on November 22, 2011, 08:42:48 AM
Didn't see it, just listened to it. Like the Man City game, it all sounded grimly predictable.

One thing that did occur to me: we didn't play like that at Spurs under MON. They always knew they had a game on against his teams. Just a thought.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: UsualSuspect on November 22, 2011, 08:43:38 AM
Quote from AM:

"We played Carlos and Alan on the right. I just wanted to tighten things up a bit and I still think that was the right thing to do"


It's going to be a long long season
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Small Rodent on November 22, 2011, 08:44:50 AM
So, McLeish has his "Moscow" 2 months ahead of Houllier's? Not good.

As I said earlier, looking above us in the league, the only team that is a surprise is Newcastle, so we're sort of where I expected. Just crapper.

If this continues through the season, bye bye crowds, bye bye Bent and Gabby.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 08:45:57 AM
turning points -

MON - Signing of Harewood

Houllier - Liverpool love in

A Mcliesh - Away at Spurs

we saw the future of football under AM last night, i've been hoping with better players that he had at Blues he might be a bit more positive, but it was all blown away for me last night

 that was the nightmare sinario all in one match, i  cant even be bothered to call for his head as i know it would be totaly futile.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 08:49:21 AM
I'm as dismayed as everyone, but the anger on here seems to be in regards to the performance/team selection and not the result, so it's hardly the usual H&V over-reaction at a loss.

To me, the Hutton thing just sent the wrong message out to both our team and theirs.  It said "Spurs will attack and we'll be defending", so is it any surprise that's what happened?  The annoying thing is that this was a measure to negate Bale, yet VDV is their main threat, so if we're going to play a defender in midfield then why not Clark?

The manager got it tactically wrong, as he did against WBA, so lets hope for a similar response that what we saw after that at Sunderland and home to Norwich.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 22, 2011, 08:52:17 AM
Mind, Redknapp made me laugh claiming they could win the league after playing us. Obviously still being wheened off the painkillers
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 08:52:18 AM
As I said earlier, looking above us in the league, the only team that is a surprise is Newcastle, so we're sort of where I expected. Just crapper.

Pretty much sums it up for me!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 08:52:39 AM
Despite some of the disasters last season, I'm beginning to pine for Houllier's brand of football. At least he tried to ensure the team passed to each other and picked players to do that.
Bear in mind the limp excuse for a team that GHou put out agin' Citeh in the Cup; equally reprehensible as last night's set-up.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JJ-AV on November 22, 2011, 08:53:35 AM
That's the worst outfield back 8 we've put out in years.

Cuellar, Dunne, Collins, Warnock, Herd, Heskey, Hutton are all complete cloggers. Petrov is past it. Gabby wasn't fully fit and Bent is woefully out of form (as shit as we were he should have had two).

The team selection was horribly negative, but the genuine lack of quality of our players last night was the most alarming.

We're seriously in need of some quality. We need one of Ireland, N'Zogbia or Bannan to get playing and find some form soon otherwise the Christmas months are going to be very long.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: glasses on November 22, 2011, 08:56:41 AM
This season has reminded me a lot of when O'Neill took over from O'Leary in 07. The squad was pretty thin, lots of underperforming players from the previous season improving slightly, a big money summer signing not living up to the price tag, but an unbeaten run at the start of the season, however with a few too many draws.

It would be nice to think Randy would invest in January, and we can find another couple of Ashley Youngs and John Carews. Then have a couple of more than decent seasons.

Oh well.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 08:56:52 AM
I said on Saturday that Swansea will be a really tough game: they play with precision, aggression and a defensice meanness  that requires subtlety to unlock.
We cannot go to their place with the same mindset as last night otherwise the embarrassment will grow into humiliation; and they will definitely believe that they can beat us - and well - on Sunday.

Given that many of Swnasea's players are on the short side, it is a wonderful opportunity to play our talented players - Bannan and perhaps Gardner should be considered for the midfield starting line-up; certainly no Hutton and Heskey in MF, at any rate.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JJ-AV on November 22, 2011, 08:57:44 AM
Mind, Redknapp made me laugh claiming they could win the league after playing us. Obviously still being wheened off the painkillers

Aim for the stars and you'll land on the moon...

The difference between us and Spurs is they think and act big. In the short term it might not make much of a difference and I used to like the relative lack of hype that surrounds us, but after years of us signing Dunne, Reo-Coker, Ireland and Harewood while they got Gallas, Modric, Van Der Vaart and Berbatov I've started to realise how much of a difference making a noise can make.

That's before we even begin to compare how the two clubs contrast in their methods for identifying and appointing a manager.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 09:02:08 AM
This season has reminded me a lot of when O'Neill took over from O'Leary in 07. The squad was pretty thin, lots of underperforming players from the previous season improving slightly, a big money summer signing not living up to the price tag, but an unbeaten run at the start of the season, however with a few too many draws.

It would be nice to think Randy would invest in January, and we can find another couple of Ashley Youngs and John Carews. Then have a couple of more than decent seasons.

Oh well.




to be honest Glass, i dont even care about investing in players in Jan, because we all know the sort of players AM likes, and they will still play in the same style,
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 22, 2011, 09:04:58 AM
Quote from AM:

"We played Carlos and Alan on the right. I just wanted to tighten things up a bit and I still think that was the right thing to do"


It's going to be a long long season

That quote is worrying. Playing two players who aren't the best on the ball is poor judgement. Surely you want their players defending more,so playing Nzogbia or Albrighton would be a better bet.

It's show Mccleishs natural instinct as a manager.

Swansea have attacking wide players,so will he do the same next week? I can see possession being 70 to 30 % again,this is all so expected and depressing.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TimTheVillain on November 22, 2011, 09:08:38 AM
Last night was a disgrace.

I can't single out a player as they were all dire, individually and collectively.

Saying that, playing Heskey anywhere in the team shows how low we are at the moment.

I am VERY concerned about the future of our club.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 22, 2011, 09:09:23 AM
Not much AM can do about the standard of players he's bought in with the budget available. Its similar to DOL's time in that respect - for every bargain like Laursen or Given, you're gonna have a hell of a lot of journeymen  like Hutton and McCann. Needs to look abroad a bit more though
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: asgpaul on November 22, 2011, 09:09:37 AM

McLeish lived up to every ounce of his reputation for negativity tonight.

It was thoroughly embarrassing.

Spot on - AM was totally clueless, selection, tactics, substitutions.

Wasn't the defeat itself, but the manner of it. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: cheadlevilla on November 22, 2011, 09:10:05 AM
have had some time to consider last night..... its not got better!
We are a team of donkeys, lead by a donkey wiyh a disinterested donkey master in charge, whos main concern is cutting the carrot bill.
I cant see how things are going to get better, and with the most boring sterile football ive seen at VP for years, the crowds will tumble like the aftermath of a Heskey sprint forwards
The whole defence needs to be benched... why does James Collins play wearing spats? why does Warnock put zero effort into representing our club
I think we've reached a turning point and I am worried.........
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SamTheMouse on November 22, 2011, 09:10:33 AM
I have this recurring image in my head of Sir Alex, sitting in a big black chair, stroking a white cat and saying: "Ahhhh. Another potential enemy vanquished, Tiddles".
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 09:13:26 AM
It was always going to be games like this that showed McLeish up. His mentality is still very much about being cautious, containing, not playing football - you'd imagine him taking his Birmingham side to WHL hoping and planning for a stalemate. But we're Villa, and we expect to go to Spurs and compete, and show a lot more than we did.

The formation was awful; I read it and knew we were finished. Don't see the point of playing Cuellar at RB and Hutton just in front; that says, to me, that he doesn't have enough faith to start Hutton at RB, as usual, and yet he doesn't have enough faith either in Cuellar. So, he starts with a player not totally comfortable at RB, being shadowed by a RB in RM.

He should have just stuck with Hutton at RB, and if he'd wanted extra cover, gone with Herd at right midfield, who has the legs to stay with Bale but also contribute going forward. OR my own preference, which would have seen Albrighton right midfield. He's got the legs, the pace and the heart to have tracked Bale when needed, but also would have forced Bale backwards and to defend by getting forward as much as possible.

You'll have to go a long way to see a worse starting midfield in the PL today than Hutton-Petrov-Herd-Heskey. And when the bench has midfield options in Bannan, Ireland, Delph and N'Zogbia (not to mention Clark) just sitting there, all overlooked by the manager, you know something is deeply wrong.

But that's the manager's mindset. He doesn't see it. Not sure he will. Grit your teeth and cross your fingers, everyone, because it's about to get rough.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 22, 2011, 09:15:43 AM
There's a frustration for me in that AM keeps making comments like he won't tolerate certain performances. And his comments last night about not retaining the ball and calamity defending... He can't say much else can he? The stats say it all.

But after all that, he still goes and picks the same bunch of over paid and underwhelming players that have done nothing to justify their constant team selection when by the looks of it we have some really talented youngsters. Show the seniors that no one is bigger than the club, no one is above not being dropped when the performances are below par.

"A bad day at the office"? I don't think so. It is too consistent to be that. If that was a bunch of staff on the real world, they'd of been performance managed out or made redundant and long time ago. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: TimTheVillain on November 22, 2011, 09:15:51 AM
Quote
"We started well in both halves - we went right at Spurs and had a couple of chances," said boss Alex McLeish.

Christ Alex, just say we were rubbish and we'll at least respect the fact that you saw how wrong last night was.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: OzVilla on November 22, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
turning points -

MON - Signing of Harewood

Houllier - Liverpool love in

A Mcliesh - Away at Spurs

we saw the future of football under AM last night, i've been hoping with better players that he had at Blues he might be a bit more positive, but it was all blown away for me last night

 that was the nightmare sinario all in one match, i  cant even be bothered to call for his head as i know it would be totaly futile.

MON's turning point was the signing of Heskey.  The most damaging individual signing to the balance of a Villa side since Tony Cascarino.

Agree with everything else though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 22, 2011, 09:17:33 AM
Absolute fucking rubbish last night. Took a non-Villa supporting mate to the match and he didn't realise Bent was on the pitch until the second half.

I honestly thought we'd lose 5 or 6 nil
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2011, 09:20:12 AM
I'm as dismayed as everyone, but the anger on here seems to be in regards to the performance/team selection and not the result, so it's hardly the usual H&V over-reaction at a loss.

To me, the Hutton thing just sent the wrong message out to both our team and theirs.  It said "Spurs will attack and we'll be defending", so is it any surprise that's what happened?  The annoying thing is that this was a measure to negate Bale, yet VDV is their main threat, so if we're going to play a defender in midfield then why not Clark?

The manager got it tactically wrong, as he did against WBA, so lets hope for a similar response that what we saw after that at Sunderland and home to Norwich.

Spot on John.  I can accept being beaten, and in fact expected as much away at Spurs.  The team selection and the actual performance spoke volumes though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: OzVilla on November 22, 2011, 09:21:34 AM
There's a frustration for me in that AM keeps making comments like he won't tolerate certain performances. And his comments last night about not retaining the ball and calamity defending... He can't say much else can he? The stats say it all.

But after all that, he still goes and picks the same bunch of over paid and underwhelming players that have done nothing to justify their constant team selection when by the looks of it we have some really talented youngsters. Show the seniors that no one is bigger than the club, no one is above not being dropped when the performances are below par.

"A bad day at the office"? I don't think so. It is too consistent to be that. If that was a bunch of staff on the real world, they'd of been performance managed out or made redundant and long time ago. 

Far be it from me to concoct some Ellis style interference story from RL but this was a problem that MON and GH suffered from too. 

Maybe RL has briefed him, look we spent XXX on such and such so let's see him on the Park (Beye accepted) - either that or we've just had 3 monumentaly blinkered and stubborn Managers.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 22, 2011, 09:24:33 AM
i think he's come to the same conclusion that Houllier did - the squad is not good enough to compete at places like spurs so lets not get beaten out of sight. Not much of a gameplan i grant you, but really the guys on bench don't fill you with optimism and have been slagged off on here to high heaven when they've started. Even without the daft team selection most of us thought we'd get beat heavily beforehand. you can't expect to asset strip the squad for 12 months and expect much better really
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: ktvillan on November 22, 2011, 09:25:14 AM
McLeish reverted to type, his intention was clearly damage limitation, mostly by sticking two on Bale, which failed miserably.  I think he found the white flag Houllier used at Man City in the Cup and Anfield last season. To me it's a sure sign of a poor manager when he sends a team out not to lose rather than to try to win.  It hardly ever works, so you may as well just have a good go.   Much as I despise MON, I can only think of a couple of occasions (the boxing day defeat at Arsenal and the 0-5 at Liverpool) where the team looked like it had no fight, desire or belief. 

Our starting midfield four consisted of a non-scoring centre forward, a youngster who started out as a defender (Centre back?), a right back who makes a headless chicken look like Einstein,  and Petrov who rarely passes fowards.  I'm surprised we managed even one shot on target.  From Young and Downing on the flanks to Heskey and Hutton.  Bent must be wondering why he bothers.

I'm afraid Collins is showing that he is not a good enough CB.  His positioning is awful and he loses his man so often it's embarrassing.

McLeish, you will be forgiven for much if you at least have a go.  Otherwise fuck off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 22, 2011, 09:27:01 AM
You might be right OzVilla. I wonder if it's the same with Capello at times with always insisting on lampard and Gerard.

But surely the fact we do have players like baye on such high wages and can't come close to the squad shows it's not Lerner or Faulkner sticking their noses in. I think more so with MON he was blinkered and stubborn. In AM I just don't think he has the bottle or the awareness to know what to do.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 22, 2011, 09:30:13 AM
Quote
"We started well in both halves - we went right at Spurs and had a couple of chances," said boss Alex McLeish.

Christ Alex, just say we were rubbish and we'll at least respect the fact that you saw how wrong last night was.

Did he actually say that? What about Tottenhams 12 chances in-between Alex ?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: andyh on November 22, 2011, 09:44:24 AM
Mind, Redknapp made me laugh claiming they could win the league after playing us. Obviously still being wheened off the painkillers

I'd rather hear my manager talking up the team and telling everyone how proud and excited he is by them, rather than the piss poor pile of shite we have to deal with.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Greg N'Ash on November 22, 2011, 09:51:08 AM
Mind, Redknapp made me laugh claiming they could win the league after playing us. Obviously still being wheened off the painkillers

I'd rather hear my manager talking up the team and telling everyone how proud and excited he is by them, rather than the piss poor pile of shite we have to deal with.

Yeah but it looks more sensible when you've beaten someone half decent. Like AM predicting CL qualification after we'd beaten Wigan
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pav on November 22, 2011, 09:51:43 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pav on November 22, 2011, 09:52:53 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.
or should I say "style of football "
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2011, 09:55:35 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.

No.  There's nothing much to choose between Houllier and McLeish when it comes to being crap.  And I don't agree that the style of play was better under Houllier.  He was just lucky to at least have Young and Downing in the side. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: VillaAlways on November 22, 2011, 09:56:41 AM
Listening to TalkSport makes my blood boil.They don't think we have any right to have any ambition to compete with the likes of Spurs and we should be grateful for where we are now.Unfortunately  the manager and owner think the same too.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: UsualSuspect on November 22, 2011, 09:56:56 AM
Some of this has got to lie squarely at RL's door.

Houllier was a terrible appointment, dragging a bloke out of virtual retirement with a history heart trouble who we end up having to pay a big wedge of compensation to.

Poaching probably the most negative manager in the PL, doubling his wages and paying big compensation.

AM is showing what I thought all along - he is way out of his depth.

Randy has got himself a fall guy, someone to detract the blame away from himself.

All of the chickens will be home to roost by the end of December
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 10:01:52 AM
Listening to TalkSport makes my blood boil.They don't think we have any right to have any ambition to compete with the likes of Spurs and we should be grateful for where we are now.

We've sold 4 England internationals recently, and not replaced them adequately, so based on that they're probably right.

Putting last night aside for a minute, we have to accept being a mid-table side (and yes, I do think that's where we'll end up) this season.  I just hope it's part of a longterm strategy, but time will tell on that one.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: darren woolley on November 22, 2011, 10:06:35 AM
I thought that was a terrible performance from us no heart no desire and little effort Collins needs to be dropped and be replaced by Clark the same goes for Heskey he needs dropping I just hope we never play like that again.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: villaparkb6 on November 22, 2011, 10:06:40 AM
Mind, Redknapp made me laugh claiming they could win the league after playing us. Obviously still being wheened off the painkillers

Aim for the stars and you'll land on the moon...

The difference between us and Spurs is they think and act big. In the short term it might not make much of a difference and I used to like the relative lack of hype that surrounds us, but after years of us signing Dunne, Reo-Coker, Ireland and Harewood while they got Gallas, Modric, Van Der Vaart and Berbatov I've started to realise how much of a difference making a noise can make.

That's before we even begin to compare how the two clubs contrast in their methods for identifying and appointing a manager.


JJ-AV........nail on head, end of
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 22, 2011, 10:17:36 AM
Given - cant really be blamed for anything but must wonder what he has done by coming here

Carlos - PLease put him at centre half instead of the lump that is Collins

Collins - you useless C**T just fuck off

Dunne - At least he tried more than can be said for most

Warnock - got skinned by Lennon a few times but not sure what else he did wrong - not being very good is not his fault

Herd - worked his guts out

Petrov - i actually thought he was not playing as i never heard his name or saw him for most of the game

Hutton - Fuck me i have never seen suck a useless waste of human skin (and thats at RB) in midfield just what the fuck was you thinking AM?

Heskey - what can be said what has not already been said- just fuck off you useless lump

Gabby - only one who liked like it was hurting - he must be so frustrated and if he leaves then that will be it for me

Bent - i know he needs service and he is great at tap ins etc - but his contribution to the game we may as well play with 10 men

Manager - when i saw the team i was gobsmacked - i could not believe how shite it was - he may as well as gone into Spurs dressing room and say "Look lads we will give you the points just dont take the piss with the score"
I agree with a post above  - Ekotto (sp) should have been the basis of AM's team talk to fire them up - not to tell them how to act and play

Cowardly, bottless turgid shit

Team for Sunday:

                             Given
Hutton      Carlos       Dunne       Clark
 
                           Herd

Gabby      Jenas            Petrov                NZogbia

                           Bent
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 22, 2011, 10:20:45 AM
Says something when Mike Ashley signing Pardew looks like an inspired choice!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 10:22:44 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.
or should I say "style of football "
Man City away in the FAC?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 10:24:48 AM
McMinge actually ought to take a leaf out the same book obviously having been read by Norwich, Swansea and BarCodes this season: simple football played on the front foot - get it tight at the back and play football through the team ...
which means a complete change in selection to include some ball-playing footballers.

Unfortunately, that is not his style.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: MarkM on November 22, 2011, 10:29:26 AM
We got what we expected with AM, boring negative hoof ball.

It was said when he was appointed and is now being played out for all to see.

We are now a mirror of the side he left last season
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ads on November 22, 2011, 10:31:18 AM
I couldn’t believe the system, the selection, the inability to change it round, the lack of pressing and reluctance to put time in them.

The players are not stupid. They knew what we were going there last night to achieve with that side and a defeatist mindset kicked in.

Appalling.

Sure Spurs are a good side, but they’re nowhere near a tier one team.  Spurs are so open, they gift you opportunities and they’re inept without Van der Vaart.

Why we went with two central players I have no idea, it meant we couldn’t press their midfield and one of either Modric or Van der Vaart was always able to drift off.

What sort of service can the forwards expect with Heskey and Hutton in the wide roles?
Unfathomable and unacceptable.


"Tottenham's a shit hole, you set it on fire!" and "Redknapp, Redknapp, pay your tax!" the ony amusing moments of the night.

And I got pulled for speeding. Booooo to Mondays!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: ktvillan on November 22, 2011, 10:35:58 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.
or should I say "style of football "
Man City away in the FAC?

I'd have Houllier over McLeish any day.  He's a twat and he embarrassed us a few times last year, but the style of football he was aiming at, which shone through at times,  was way better and the players he had reportedly targeted to sign in the summer wouldhave taken us further down the passing game route.  I can put up with a twat if the football is decent to watch and we try to win at least the league games.  Much rather that than the negative, guileless, gutless bullshit served up last night.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 22, 2011, 10:36:58 AM
Given - cant really be blamed for anything but must wonder what he has done by coming here

Carlos - PLease put him at centre half instead of the lump that is Collins

Collins - you useless C**T just fuck off

Dunne - At least he tried more than can be said for most

Warnock - got skinned by Lennon a few times but not sure what else he did wrong - not being very good is not his fault

Herd - worked his guts out

Petrov - i actually thought he was not playing as i never heard his name or saw him for most of the game

Hutton - Fuck me i have never seen suck a useless waste of human skin (and thats at RB) in midfield just what the fuck was you thinking AM?

Heskey - what can be said what has not already been said- just fuck off you useless lump

Gabby - only one who liked like it was hurting - he must be so frustrated and if he leaves then that will be it for me

Bent - i know he needs service and he is great at tap ins etc - but his contribution to the game we may as well play with 10 men

Manager - when i saw the team i was gobsmacked - i could not believe how shite it was - he may as well as gone into Spurs dressing room and say "Look lads we will give you the points just dont take the piss with the score"
I agree with a post above  - Ekotto (sp) should have been the basis of AM's team talk to fire them up - not to tell them how to act and play

Cowardly, bottless turgid shit

Team for Sunday:

                             Given
Hutton      Carlos       Dunne       Clark
 
                           Herd

Gabby      Jenas            Petrov                NZogbia

                           Bent


So you say that about Hutton, but then pick him in your team for Sunday..?!?!

I agree with what you said about him, and wouldn't want him anywhere near the first team again. Time for Herd (preferably), or Carlos to come in at RB.
If Jenas, Bannan and Clark (as a minimum) don't come in for Sunday for Hutton, Heskey and Collins it will be pretty depressing.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Brend'Watkins on November 22, 2011, 10:41:34 AM
Heskey last night reminded me of being back in primary school.  It was like one of your better players hadn't turned up and you were left with the fat kid who was always willing but everyone knew he could hardly kick the ball , he just make up the numbers, contributed nothing and fell over when the ball came to him.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: lukey27 on November 22, 2011, 10:49:03 AM
I couldn’t believe the system, the selection, the inability to change it round, the lack of pressing and reluctance to put time in them.

The players are not stupid. They knew what we were going there last night to achieve with that side and a defeatist mindset kicked in.

Appalling.

Sure Spurs are a good side, but they’re nowhere near a tier one team.  Spurs are so open, they gift you opportunities and they’re inept without Van der Vaart.

Why we went with two central players I have no idea, it meant we couldn’t press their midfield and one of either Modric or Van der Vaart was always able to drift off.

What sort of service can the forwards expect with Heskey and Hutton in the wide roles?
Unfathomable and unacceptable.


"Tottenham's a shit hole, you set it on fire!" and "Redknapp, Redknapp, pay your tax!" the ony amusing moments of the night.

And I got pulled for speeding. Booooo to Mondays!

As mainly a lurker and occasional poster, you always seem to get it spot on mate. Thought the team selection was generally odd but he's been hung out to dry to a certain extent with the lack of options we have in central midfield. Jenas will walk into that side Sunday.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Montys Bro on November 22, 2011, 10:51:08 AM
I don't want to start shouting about how idiotic McLeish is, (although I do actually want to, I mean I won't), I just want to put some alarming statistics I found that put numbers to what we all fear is true, apologies if posted elsewhere.

Completed Passes league table:

17. Aston Villa       2640
18. Blackburn        2561
20. Stoke              2271


Shots on Target

18. West Brom     42
19. Aston Villa      35
20. Stoke             28


The only thing keeping us out of the bottom 3 is an amazing conversion rate from Gabby and Bent, but it's obviously not sustainable. Last night was an absolute disgrace, Mcleish thinks that defending is doing big blocks, saves and slide tackles, but out of us and tottenham who defended better.....Tottenham obviously. They created a situation where we only had 1 shot on target. It's not defensive, it's nothing. You give them space and possession then it's a matter of time until they score, 13 minutes it lasted, the idiot.


I realise I'm preaching to the converted, but we must all remember this game and don't see it as a one off or that the players were at fault, it is the fault of Alex Mcleish and his logicless brain.

I actually had an anxiety dream that AM sacked Sid and Macdonald so now he and grant could play the football they REALY wanted to play, I woke up in a cold sweat. Sorry for long post
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 10:57:40 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.

No.  There's nothing much to choose between Houllier and McLeish when it comes to being crap.  And I don't agree that the style of play was better under Houllier.  He was just lucky to at least have Young and Downing in the side. 

Houllier at least tried to play football, McLeish doesn't seem too bothered.

And although we had a divided squad, it looks like he was dead right with some of the players he deffed off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2011, 10:59:19 AM

As mainly a lurker and occasional poster, you always seem to get it spot on mate. Thought the team selection was generally odd but he's been hung out to dry to a certain extent with the lack of options we have in central midfield. Jenas will walk into that side Sunday.

Spurs' midfield of Parker and Modric is a nice blend of skill and determination, but it's not like you're playing a team of Blackburn style shithouses.  At least starting with the likes of Delph, Bannan or Ireland would have been an attacking statement of intent.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: lukey27 on November 22, 2011, 11:10:28 AM

Spurs' midfield of Parker and Modric is a nice blend of skill and determination, but it's not like you're playing a team of Blackburn style shithouses.  At least starting with the likes of Delph, Bannan or Ireland would have been an attacking statement of intent.

That's what I mean by lack of options. Ireland has been shit every time he's played and utterly anonymous away from home and Delph has looked out of his depth this year. We haven't got enough genuine quality anymore in the squad, and Mcleish for some inconceivable reason thinks Hutton and Heskey are better oprions than N'Zogbia.

We need investment in January, simple as that
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Shrek on November 22, 2011, 11:10:55 AM
Would anyone take houllier back , at least better standard of football.

No.  There's nothing much to choose between Houllier and McLeish when it comes to being crap.  And I don't agree that the style of play was better under Houllier.  He was just lucky to at least have Young and Downing in the side. 

Houllier at least tried to play football, McLeish doesn't seem too bothered.

And although we had a divided squad, it looks like he was dead right with some of the players he deffed off.

YES Straight away.

Houllier only cared about Aston Villa, he was trying to change the way we play and was trying to get rid of all the shite like our entire defence.

If he was healthy, we would now have a midfield of Delph, Makoun, Cabeye(publicly stated he was coming here if Houllier had stayed).
The likes of Dunne, Warnock etc have also stated they would have left.

So if Houllier had stayed we'd have a stronger midfield and a new defence.

Our current problem is a poor midfield and a shite defence....^^
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 11:18:50 AM
Absolutely, Risso. Last night we had every midfielder at the club available, bar Jenas. We could have picked several different blends of midfield trios that would have been far better and more effective than the abomination that started the match.

As for the Houllier argument... well, he did some silly things. But I always felt with him it was short term pain, long term gain, which is why I suggested in the summer that a DOF type of role for him, with a younger coach actually running the side day to day, wouldn't have been a bad idea. Given the options we eventually had available, I still believe a KMac/DOF model would have made more sense than what we have now. At least there could be the promise of something better.

It's not hindsight, it's how I felt in July and how I feel now. I knew exactly what we were getting with McLeish - he'll keep us up, keep us steady, but we won't actually go anywhere.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mazrim on November 22, 2011, 11:20:01 AM
Heskey last night reminded me of being back in primary school.  It was like one of your better players hadn't turned up and you were left with the fat kid who was always willing but everyone knew he could hardly kick the ball , he just make up the numbers, contributed nothing and fell over when the ball came to him.

The plan was (and always is) lump it up to him, hope he wins the headers and see if Bent and Gabby can do something with the knockdown. After the first 10 minutes it was clear Spurs were expecting this and in fact Heskey hardly won a header. It's a fucking shit plan to begin with but even so, if it's not working, change it straight away. Nope. We kept trying it al game and gave the ball away nearly every time inviting more pressure.

So what else did we try and do? Well there's always try and get gabby down the channels. But even when Gabby wasnt being asked to defend and was running the channels, he was double marked with one of if not the fastest full backs in the league. So that wasnt working either. What next?

"Sorry, that's it mate. I'm trying to be cagey and tight with a team shipping two goals a game!"
WELL DONT FUCKING BOTHER! Play our most attack minded footballers who can keep the ball for more than 2 seconds. We do have some. We're going to ship goals anyway because our defence is pretty much hopeless now so go for it.

Back to the drawing board:

..................................Given

Herd.............Cuellar..............Dunne..........Clark

..........Gardner............Jenas.............Delph

...........Gabby...............Bent...........N'Zogbia

Guzan, Baker, Warnock, Petrov, Bannan (or Ireland), Albrighton, Burke.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pedro25 on November 22, 2011, 11:20:10 AM

Spurs' midfield of Parker and Modric is a nice blend of skill and determination, but it's not like you're playing a team of Blackburn style shithouses.  At least starting with the likes of Delph, Bannan or Ireland would have been an attacking statement of intent.

That's what I mean by lack of options. Ireland has been shit every time he's played and utterly anonymous away from home and Delph has looked out of his depth this year. We haven't got enough genuine quality anymore in the squad, and Mcleish for some inconceivable reason thinks Hutton and Heskey are better oprions than N'Zogbia.

If not Ireland and Delph then 2 or 3 of Bannan, N'Zogbia and Albrighton then, I agree none of them have been in startling form this season but we have so many options in midfield, Jenas as well when available, there is no excuse for playing Heskey and Hutton there.  Herd is not good enough either imo.

We need investment in January, simple as that
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 11:25:43 AM
I found it pretty galling to hear chants of "boring, boring Villa" and "hoof!" from Spurs fans last night. It wasn't particularly enjoyable when we heard it at QPR either.

It's not the fact they were chanting it that was most galling, it was the fact it was true.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Marlon From Bearwood on November 22, 2011, 11:26:42 AM
Mazrim, I'd love to see that team. Can't see it happening though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dutchvilla on November 22, 2011, 11:31:19 AM
Play people in their right positions.

Show some attacking intent.

Stand by players who make a mistake. Drop players who persistently underperform.

Show some imagination in the use of substitutes.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ian. on November 22, 2011, 11:32:14 AM
Well that is the first time I have seen us play this season  and I'm just terribly gutted with the total none show more than anything. We didn't look interested and our movement was worse than I can ever remember.

A very terrible game and performance from us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dutchvilla on November 22, 2011, 11:33:21 AM
For Swansea, I expect the only change will be Jenas for Cuellar, with Hutton back as right back.

I would go with
Given
Hutton Cuellar Dunne Warnock
Herd Petrov Jenas
N'Zogbia Bent Agbonlahor
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: garyshawsknee on November 22, 2011, 11:34:06 AM
I found it pretty galling to hear chants of "boring, boring Villa" and "hoof!" from Spurs fans last night. It wasn't particularly enjoyable when we heard it at QPR either.

It's not the fact they were chanting it that was most galling, it was the fact it was true.

Were quickly becoming known as Bolton type team. 5 lives team were quite rightly slating us last night,no ideas,no spirit,inept display etc.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulTheVillan on November 22, 2011, 11:34:34 AM
I can't see massive changes coming for Swansea, so I'm going to predict

Given
Hutton Clark Dunne Warnock
Herd
Petrov Jenas
NZogbia               Gabby
Bent
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mazrim on November 22, 2011, 11:34:53 AM
Mazrim, I'd love to see that team. Can't see it happening though.

Aye, no chance whatsoever.

I urge anybody wanting to watch a Villa side play with some class, determination and flair to go down to Villa Park tonight.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: lukey27 on November 22, 2011, 11:35:30 AM
Mazrim, I'd love to see that team. Can't see it happening though.

Yep, I don't see any problems now with him rotating the full backs. Clark definitely deserves a chance.

My main issue with us away from home is that we seem so devoid of ideas. The way we played in the first halves at QPR, Everton and last night suggest we are trying to get the ball forward as quickly as possible, get flick ons, hold posession and build from there. Well guys, it ain't working.

In those three games I've mentioned we didn't keep the ball in the oppositions half for anywhere near enough time. And yet Mcleish keeps going on about retaining posession. It's a bit worrying with the fixtures coming up.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 22, 2011, 11:41:53 AM
I know we can all be prone to hyperbole in the immediate aftermath of a game, but I can't remember a more gutless, hopeless performance.

Doncaster 2005 surely or loads more under O'dreary.

The painful truth is we're miles away from competiting with Spurs. I remember Richard Moore said this in 2006 and I ticked him off about it and low and behold we finished above them from 2007-09 but they've made the right managerial appointment, signed some great foreign players and kept hold of them.

Last night looking at the starting 11s, imo only Given and Gabby would challenge Friedel and Lennon for a place in their team, no one else comes close.

Huge gulf in quality and also confidence on the ball.

To me the state of our midfield is an embarrasment. 18 months ago, we had Downing- Petrov-Milner- Young as our midfield with someone like NRC as back up. What we have at the moment is an insult to compare to that midfield. Stan's had a good season but is starting to fade which you would expect at his age, Herd is still learning and might not be the long term answer, Hutton there was tactically buffoonery and I'm not even going to waste time commenting on Heskey.

Get used to this, we're going to be stuck in 9th,10th,11th all season, we're right back in the Gregory days.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulTheVillan on November 22, 2011, 11:48:09 AM
I know we can all be prone to hyperbole in the immediate aftermath of a game, but I can't remember a more gutless, hopeless performance.

Doncaster 2005 surely or loads more under O'dreary.

The painful truth is we're miles away from competiting with Spurs. I remember Richard Moore said this in 2006 and I ticked him off about it and low and behold we finished above them from 2007-09 but they've made the right managerial appointment, signed some great foreign players and kept hold of them.

Last night looking at the starting 11s, imo only Given and Gabby would challenge Friedel and Lennon for a place in their team, no one else comes close.

Huge gulf in quality and also confidence on the ball.

To me the state of our midfield is an embarrasment. 18 months ago, we had Downing- Petrov-Milner- Young as our midfield with someone like NRC as back up. What we have at the moment is an insult to compare to that midfield. Stan's had a good season but is starting to fade which you would expect at his age, Herd is still learning and might not be the long term answer, Hutton there was tactically buffoonery and I'm not even going to waste time commenting on Heskey.

Get used to this, we're going to be stuck in 9th,10th,11th all season, we're right back in the Gregory days.

Wasn't we almost top one Xmas under JG?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2011, 11:50:36 AM
Mazrim, I'd love to see that team. Can't see it happening though.

Me too, Mazrim for manager!

Spurs seem to have realised that keeping the ball is better than constantly losing it and trying to win it back.  McLeish would probably think that a team with Van Der Vaart and Modric in it would be too lightweight and play Heskey instead of one of them.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: drisaac on November 22, 2011, 11:51:58 AM
I know we can all be prone to hyperbole in the immediate aftermath of a game, but I can't remember a more gutless, hopeless performance.

Doncaster 2005 surely or loads more under O'dreary.

The painful truth is we're miles away from competiting with Spurs. I remember Richard Moore said this in 2006 and I ticked him off about it and low and behold we finished above them from 2007-09 but they've made the right managerial appointment, signed some great foreign players and kept hold of them.

Last night looking at the starting 11s, imo only Given and Gabby would challenge Friedel and Lennon for a place in their team, no one else comes close.

Huge gulf in quality and also confidence on the ball.

To me the state of our midfield is an embarrasment. 18 months ago, we had Downing- Petrov-Milner- Young as our midfield with someone like NRC as back up. What we have at the moment is an insult to compare to that midfield. Stan's had a good season but is starting to fade which you would expect at his age, Herd is still learning and might not be the long term answer, Hutton there was tactically buffoonery and I'm not even going to waste time commenting on Heskey.

Get used to this, we're going to be stuck in 9th,10th,11th all season, we're right back in the Gregory days.

Wasn't we almost top one Xmas under JG?

Not almost, we were top at Christmas in 98-99 , and then collapsed to finish 6th.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 22, 2011, 11:53:07 AM
I found it pretty galling to hear chants of "boring, boring Villa" and "hoof!" from Spurs fans last night. It wasn't particularly enjoyable when we heard it at QPR either.

It's not the fact they were chanting it that was most galling, it was the fact it was true.

and the Ole's too....can't think of a season when we've had that done to us so many times
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Cjamesk on November 22, 2011, 11:55:03 AM
I think our shirt sponsor should be Dignitas after that inept perfromance last night.

It was not only boring and painfull to watch but heart breaking to see the gulf between us and Spurs now, something has to change and fast.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 11:55:50 AM
Spurs seem to have realised that keeping the ball is better than constantly losing it and trying to win it back.  McLeish would probably think that a team with Van Der Vaart and Modric in it would be too lightweight and play Heskey instead of one of them.

Last night we didn't even seem to be particularly bothered about trying to win it back.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 22, 2011, 12:15:59 PM
Mazrim, great shout on the team for Sunday!! If only Am had the balls to actually do it
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: kippaxvilla2 on November 22, 2011, 12:33:33 PM
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected??

That's a fair point.  The best I can say about McLeish is that he hasn't been quite as bad I expected, but still pretty hopeless.  It's turning out pretty much as I expected.  Lots of draws, getting battered by the big teams and picking up the odd win here and there against the worst teams in the league to make sure we don't quite go down. 
The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected??

That's a fair point.  The best I can say about McLeish is that he hasn't been quite as bad I expected, but still pretty hopeless.  It's turning out pretty much as I expected.  Lots of draws, getting battered by the big teams and picking up the odd win here and there against the worst teams in the league to make sure we don't quite go down. 

I won't accept that.  We trawled through 24 other candidates to get to the right one you know.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Vanilla on November 22, 2011, 12:41:18 PM
Spurs seem to have realised that keeping the ball is better than constantly losing it and trying to win it back.  McLeish would probably think that a team with Van Der Vaart and Modric in it would be too lightweight and play Heskey instead of one of them.

Last night we didn't even seem to be particularly bothered about trying to win it back.

With a full back as a winger, I think our intention for the game was pretty clear. Once they scored, the game plan went out the window.

According to the Daily Mirror, this was our worst shots on target ratio for 6 seasons.

If the manager is setting out not to win these games, as least do a MM at Wolves and rest players.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Hookeysmith on November 22, 2011, 12:41:19 PM
Given - cant really be blamed for anything but must wonder what he has done by coming here

Carlos - PLease put him at centre half instead of the lump that is Collins

Collins - you useless C**T just fuck off

Dunne - At least he tried more than can be said for most

Warnock - got skinned by Lennon a few times but not sure what else he did wrong - not being very good is not his fault

Herd - worked his guts out

Petrov - i actually thought he was not playing as i never heard his name or saw him for most of the game

Hutton - Fuck me i have never seen suck a useless waste of human skin (and thats at RB) in midfield just what the fuck was you thinking AM?

Heskey - what can be said what has not already been said- just fuck off you useless lump

Gabby - only one who liked like it was hurting - he must be so frustrated and if he leaves then that will be it for me

Bent - i know he needs service and he is great at tap ins etc - but his contribution to the game we may as well play with 10 men

Manager - when i saw the team i was gobsmacked - i could not believe how shite it was - he may as well as gone into Spurs dressing room and say "Look lads we will give you the points just dont take the piss with the score"
I agree with a post above  - Ekotto (sp) should have been the basis of AM's team talk to fire them up - not to tell them how to act and play

Cowardly, bottless turgid shit

Team for Sunday:

                             Given
Hutton      Carlos       Dunne       Clark
 
                           Herd

Gabby      Jenas            Petrov                NZogbia

                           Bent


So you say that about Hutton, but then pick him in your team for Sunday..?!?!

I agree with what you said about him, and wouldn't want him anywhere near the first team again. Time for Herd (preferably), or Carlos to come in at RB.
If Jenas, Bannan and Clark (as a minimum) don't come in for Sunday for Hutton, Heskey and Collins it will be pretty depressing.


I only have Hutton there due to the fact i like Herd in the middle and with the right mix around him see him as an excellent Defensive CM
If Lichaj was fit he would be in before Hutton in a heart beat
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PaulWinch again on November 22, 2011, 12:47:23 PM
It annoys me that I have a Southampton fan mate who is shouting from the roof tops about them. I went to a game with him and they actually played really good stuff. He has been banging on about they would beat Villa, and I've been saying forget it and they are in a different league. Scary thing is they probably would beat us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: brontebilly on November 22, 2011, 12:49:42 PM
We were an embarrassment last night. From going with the likes of Young and Downing out wide to Hutton and Heskey says it all for the mindset of McLeish.

He is exactly the wrong manager we need in charge of the club right now. We have a host of attacking midfield options and he plays a crap forward and a crap defender in there. That's just the inspiration the likes of Gardner, Albrighton, Delph, Nzogbia, Bannan and Ireland are looking for. Bent and Gabby must be looking for a way out and who could blame them.

Collins needs dropping too. His lack of awareness is startling. Clark in.

Ah fuck it. McLeish out. Villa fans will turn their back on the club every week he stays on. I'd prefer to get relegated than finish 14th playing that gutless brand of football every week.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 12:53:16 PM
I only have Hutton there due to the fact i like Herd in the middle and with the right mix around him see him as an excellent Defensive CM
If Lichaj was fit he would be in before Hutton in a heart beat

Pretty much agree with that.  Herd has been one of the major pluses so far this season, so I think it'd be a mistake to move him from CM.  I think Carlos should start against Swansea, so unless AM pulls another masterstroke it's either Collins or Hutton missing out.  I would realistically like to see:-

GK - Given

RB - Hutton/Cuellar
CB - Cueller/Collins
CB - Dunne
LB - Warnock

CM - Herd
CM - Petrov
CM - Jenas

RW - N'Zogbia
LW - Gabby

STR - Bent

That team should be able to get a result.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: hulkamania on November 22, 2011, 12:55:27 PM
Has Mclueless been given the boot yet? Very very depressing to see what we have become. I'll be amazed if we aren't in a relegation battle this season. Especially with the next months fixtures
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithe on November 22, 2011, 12:55:33 PM
It annoys me that I have a Southampton fan mate who is shouting from the roof tops about them. I went to a game with him and they actually played really good stuff. He has been banging on about they would beat Villa, and I've been saying forget it and they are in a different league. Scary thing is they probably would beat us.

As someone above said, get down to VP tonight and you will see a team in C&B playing attractive, controlled football. The antidote to the general depression surrounding the first team may be close at hand.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: mal on November 22, 2011, 12:58:30 PM
No shit, Sherlock! For me McLeish is just MON without the money.
2007-10
No shit, Sherlock
MON= 6th 6th 6th
AM = Relegated, promoted, Relegated

If not this season, then the next.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Lee on November 22, 2011, 01:14:04 PM
Quote from AM:

"We played Carlos and Alan on the right. I just wanted to tighten things up a bit and I still think that was the right thing to do"


It's going to be a long long season

That has been the raison d'être since before the season began.

I have to say last nights result didn't hurt me as it usually did. The Villa have knocked the stuffing out of me, especially in the last  18 months or so. 

While I often thought that the decline culminating in the Summer of 2006 under Ellis, was perhaps one that was waiting to happen for a good while, the headless downward spiral that we are in now has come as a bit of a shock to the system. I'm older and wiser now (I'd like to think) and the frustration that used to have me crawling up the walls is no longer there.

Dave W put in his Birmingham Press article that the good will that Randy cultivated, still leaves him in credit. I think that his "good-will cashflow" has dried up far too quickly. PR gaffes and what seems as a lack of leadership from our Board, culminated in last nights result. We can carry on blaming MON ( and for good reason), but he has been gone for 18 moths now.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Meanwood Villa on November 22, 2011, 01:15:44 PM
There are no positives from last night. It was so one-sided it was truly embarrassing. Are Spurs really good or are we really shit? Probably a bit of both. Depressing
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chris Jameson on November 22, 2011, 01:17:54 PM
I mean, Sir Alex has got Villa's best interests at heart hasn't he?

I sincerely hope that Lerner is returning the favour to Man United by giving O'Leary a glowing reference.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on November 22, 2011, 01:18:49 PM
Is it bedsheets and spray cans time again?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: VillaAlways on November 22, 2011, 01:19:56 PM
Quote from AM
 “It was a bad night for a few of our players – a bad day at the office – and they know they owe us one. They owe the fans and me a performance in the next game."

So what happened to I'm not scared to drop players if they underperform.No doubt Collins wil stilll start on Sunday





Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 01:22:16 PM
Quote from AM
 “It was a bad night for a few of our players – a bad day at the office – and they know they owe us one. They owe the fans and me a performance in the next game."

So what happened to I'm not scared to drop players if they underperform.No doubt Collins wil stilll start on Sunday

Of course he will. And so will Heskey.

I can't believe we witnessed a midfield which included Hutton and Heskey last night.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Archbishop Herbert Cockthrottle on November 22, 2011, 01:22:41 PM
The old 'Attack, attack, attack, attack attack' chant needs to be dusted off.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: ozzjim on November 22, 2011, 01:30:06 PM
Heskey last night reminded me of being back in primary school.  It was like one of your better players hadn't turned up and you were left with the fat kid who was always willing but everyone knew he could hardly kick the ball , he just make up the numbers, contributed nothing and fell over when the ball came to him.

The plan was (and always is) lump it up to him, hope he wins the headers and see if Bent and Gabby can do something with the knockdown. After the first 10 minutes it was clear Spurs were expecting this and in fact Heskey hardly won a header. It's a fucking shit plan to begin with but even so, if it's not working, change it straight away. Nope. We kept trying it al game and gave the ball away nearly every time inviting more pressure.

So what else did we try and do? Well there's always try and get gabby down the channels. But even when Gabby wasnt being asked to defend and was running the channels, he was double marked with one of if not the fastest full backs in the league. So that wasnt working either. What next?

"Sorry, that's it mate. I'm trying to be cagey and tight with a team shipping two goals a game!"
WELL DONT FUCKING BOTHER! Play our most attack minded footballers who can keep the ball for more than 2 seconds. We do have some. We're going to ship goals anyway because our defence is pretty much hopeless now so go for it.

Back to the drawing board:

..................................Given

Herd.............Cuellar..............Dunne..........Clark

..........Gardner............Jenas.............Delph

...........Gabby...............Bent...........N'Zogbia

Guzan, Baker, Warnock, Petrov, Bannan (or Ireland), Albrighton, Burke.

Spot on. This is the exact side that I said this morning to my old man in the car.

Time for Gardner and Clark to come in. Delph can pass the ball and is the future IMO with patience.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 01:34:41 PM
The old 'Attack, attack, attack, attack attack' chant needs to be dusted off.

Last night I'd have settled for a bit of "gerrintoem FUCK EM UP"
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: andyh on November 22, 2011, 01:39:26 PM
Quote from AM
 “It was a bad night for a few of our players – a bad day at the office – and they know they owe us one. They owe the fans and me a performance in the next game."

So what happened to I'm not scared to drop players if they underperform.No doubt Collins wil stilll start on Sunday






Quite a regularly used phrase now.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villafirst on November 22, 2011, 01:41:11 PM
I only have Hutton there due to the fact i like Herd in the middle and with the right mix around him see him as an excellent Defensive CM
If Lichaj was fit he would be in before Hutton in a heart beat

Pretty much agree with that.  Herd has been one of the major pluses so far this season, so I think it'd be a mistake to move him from CM.  I think Carlos should start against Swansea, so unless AM pulls another masterstroke it's either Collins or Hutton missing out.  I would realistically like to see:-

GK - Given

RB - Hutton/Cuellar
CB - Cueller/Collins
CB - Dunne
LB - Warnock

CM - Herd
CM - Petrov
CM - Jenas

RW - N'Zogbia
LW - Gabby

STR - Bent

That team should be able to get a result.

I would stick Gary Gardner in NOW! What is there to lose? Heskey was completely anonymous tonight and gave the ball away cheaply all night. I'd go with Gardner, Herd and Petrov in the middle. N'Zogbia has to return - he played much better against Norwich, then is dropped! I couldn't understand why he wasn't given a chance 2-0 down at half-time. A complete disgrace from a Villa side to surrender like that from the outset! December I feel will be a disaster - bottom 5 by Jan 1st!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Vanilla on November 22, 2011, 01:43:47 PM
Quote from AM
 “It was a bad night for a few of our players – a bad day at the office – and they know they owe us one. They owe the fans and me a performance in the next game."

So what happened to I'm not scared to drop players if they underperform.No doubt Collins wil stilll start on Sunday

Quite a regularly used phrase now.

Replace with what though? Fresh air? Problem is, who else is there? The squad is tiny and full of mediocrity at the moment. Passion can get you so far, but that is missing also.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: bilsim on November 22, 2011, 01:46:44 PM
I really think relegation talk is a bit far fetched.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 01:47:31 PM

GK - Given

RB - Hutton/Cuellar
CB - Cueller/Collins
CB - Dunne
LB - Warnock

CM - Herd
CM - Petrov
CM - Jenas

RW - N'Zogbia
LW - Gabby

STR - Bent

That team should be able to get a result.

John - that's the way I'd like to see Villa shaping up for the rest of the season, in terms of formation. Very similar on the players as well. I'd keep Hutton at RB until Lichaj (who I rate) is fit to take his place, and probably look to bring Clark in at CB alongside Dunne, though I could certainly live with Cuellar in there. Collins need to sit it out for now.

Good midfield three. I'd be looking at Delph as an option/replacement for Petrov for certain games, bringing Gardner along and adding Bannan into the three if we want a more attack-minded three.

Front three should be the three who always start IMO. Albrighton as the change player for one of the wide lads.

Stick to that kind of shape and we'll be much the better for it.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Vanilla on November 22, 2011, 01:56:46 PM
I really think relegation talk is a bit far fetched.

It is funny how the people who shun the possibility of relegation regardless of our current form as 'far fetched', are usually the same people who, when it is mentioned that we need to buy a couple of players, immediately pipe up about 'We don't want to turn out like Leeds!'.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 22, 2011, 02:01:12 PM
We won't get relegated.

I think teams will stay up on 35 points this season given how bad Wigan and Blackburn are so we're nearly halfway there anyway.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: midnite on November 22, 2011, 02:26:28 PM
I don't think we'll get relegated. Not because we're too good to go down. But thankfully this season there are some woeful teams worse than us.

But I think we could be in a little dog fight with the other teams in that area come march. We'll then just scrape through and finished anywhere between 10th to 15th.

I dont see much happening in jan to change the situation. Not unless we get some offers for our fringe players like baye, Heskey. Maybe cuellar too. It would be too much to ask if the first two along with Collins got bought so we got some cash in

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ryu on November 22, 2011, 02:36:56 PM
Started reading this thread this morning and, as I expected it would be, it's full of hysterics an hyperbole so I just skipped to the end half way through.

Yes, it was a bad performance. Yes, AM's team selection really didn't work and yes, spurs looked miles better than us. But at the end of the day we've lost, away from home, to a team we usually lose to away from home and are a better side than us. if playing hutton in midfield becomes the norm then the manager should be slated but if he learns from this mistake and our next game is more like the one against Norwich then I think we should continue to give hime time.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Shrek on November 22, 2011, 02:38:48 PM
I agree with Ozzjim.

..................................Given

Herd.............Cuellar..............Dunne..........Clark

..........Gardner............Jenas.............Delph

...........Gabby...............Bent...........N'Zogbia

Guzan, Baker, Warnock, Petrov, Bannan (or Ireland), Albrighton, Burke.

Even if we lost to Swansea having a real good go, trying to play football would be acceptable with that team.

Mcleish is driving all our youngsters away from the club.
Clark,Gardner,Albrighton,Weimann,Delfouneso are a good crop a youngsters that a not even getting a look in.

Alex Mcleish OUT for me I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 02:38:56 PM
I figured I would feel a bit better after a nights sleep, the old 'it's never as bad once you've calmed down' trick. But i'm still as fucked off with the team selection, lack of tactical changes and substitutions and the manner of the defeat as I was last night.

Normally i'm very much a 'fuck it, let's move on, onwards and upwards' type, but I look at the club as a whole right now and can't see much light in the future. Could be a long few years, never mind a long season.

Merry Christmas. Bah humbug!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 02:56:06 PM
Started reading this thread this morning and, as I expected it would be, it's full of hysterics an hyperbole so I just skipped to the end half way through.

Yes, it was a bad performance. Yes, AM's team selection really didn't work and yes, spurs looked miles better than us. But at the end of the day we've lost, away from home, to a team we usually lose to away from home and are a better side than us. if playing hutton in midfield becomes the norm then the manager should be slated but if he learns from this mistake and our next game is more like the one against Norwich then I think we should continue to give hime time.

Well said, Ryu.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chico Hamilton III on November 22, 2011, 03:02:24 PM
Quote
as I expected it would be, it's full of hysterics an hyperbole


Yeah, whingeing Villa fans, paying the best part of a hundred quid, taking an afternoon off work to travel to North London on a Monday night before Christmas only to be served up with a pile of fucking rubbish...
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 03:02:39 PM
But at the end of the day we've lost, away from home, to a team we usually lose to away from home and are a better side than us.

I think that's half the reason people are upset. I expected defeat because I have such a low expectation of this current side but I don't expect the players and the management to be so resigned before a game. The signals we sent out at the start of the game were awful. We should at least be looking to give a good account of ourselves in games, even games we're expected to lose: QPR and Fulham both managed to give Spurs a run for their money. We fell desperately short last night.

That's not being hysterical. But I remain deeply concerned about our present and future. Not one single result has surprised me this season, we've looked ordinary against some pretty average sides this season.

I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 03:04:04 PM
It is not about the fact we lost.

It's about the manner in which we lost.

We're used to losing matches, especially at Spurs. I can think of plenty performances far, far worse than that over the years, but I struggle to think of too many more gutless and insipid.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:06:46 PM
I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 03:08:25 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 03:08:31 PM
I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.

Norwich were abysmal at the back.

You can only beat what is in front of you, but they made it very, very easy for us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eastie on November 22, 2011, 03:15:54 PM
Swansea are a decent team and play attractive football-yet again we will be embarrassed on sky tv i fear.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:16:20 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?

Each to their own, but I saw us play well and outplay Norwich more than they outplayed us, but then a defensive error made in a nervy finish.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:18:32 PM
I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.

Norwich were abysmal at the back.

You can only beat what is in front of you, but they made it very, very easy for us.

Whether they did or not, my point was they were being bigged up on here before the game, as Swansea are now, and we beat them.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 22, 2011, 03:19:08 PM
They'll be a tough nut to crack at the Liberty, only Manure have won there so far and that was by a single goal.

Swansea don't score many though and I fancy to nick 1 or 2 on the break.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:22:49 PM
I'm not sayign we will beat them.  In fact, I'll be predicting a 1-1 draw when the pre-match thread comes round. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 03:24:31 PM
relegation ?

if you offered me 3 more years of Mcliesh football or relegation and a new manager someone like the fella's at Norwich, Swansea, MK Dons, Bolton, Wigan, Doncaster i'd say hey ho championship here we come and not give a flying toss.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 03:24:50 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?

Each to their own, but I saw us play well and outplay Norwich more than they outplayed us, but then a defensive error made in a nervy finish.

I saw us get outplayed for half an hour, have less possession and shots on target than a side, as a said, that were a division 3 side 2 years ago.
Was it an exciting game, yes. Was it great seeing us holding on for the last 15 mins, no.
My point is, it was hardly a performance to use as a reference in defence of the manager.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:27:29 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?

Each to their own, but I saw us play well and outplay Norwich more than they outplayed us, but then a defensive error made in a nervy finish.

I saw us get outplayed for half an hour, have less possession and shots on target than a side, as a said, that were a division 3 side 2 years ago.
Was it an exciting game, yes. Was it great seeing us holding on for the last 15 mins, no.
My point is, it was hardly a performance to use as a reference in defence of the manager.

I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ryu on November 22, 2011, 03:27:35 PM
Chico Hamilton III:

--- Quote ---as I expected it would be, it's full of hysterics an hyperbole
--- End quote ---


Yeah, whingeing Villa fans, paying the best part of a hundred quid, taking an afternoon off work to travel to North London on a Monday night before Christmas only to be served up with a pile of fucking rubbish...




I'm not saying you should be happy with the performance, but read the start of this thread back. It's full of block capitals and people saying things like AM is killing the club. How is that not hyperbole?  It seems to me that a lot of people were just waiting for a chance to really lay into Mcleish. But maybe you're right and he is complete shit, but losing away to spurs is hardly the worst thing I've seen a Villa side do so I'm just going to wait and see how we come back from this.

And where did I refer to whingeing Villa fans?  Maybe you have a complex?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 03:30:57 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?

Each to their own, but I saw us play well and outplay Norwich more than they outplayed us, but then a defensive error made in a nervy finish.

I saw us get outplayed for half an hour, have less possession and shots on target than a side, as a said, that were a division 3 side 2 years ago.
Was it an exciting game, yes. Was it great seeing us holding on for the last 15 mins, no.
My point is, it was hardly a performance to use as a reference in defence of the manager.

I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

My first post on the Norwich game was aimed at Ryu who said "and our next game is more like the one against Norwich then I think we should continue to give hime time."

For the record, I think we should give him more time, but using the Norwich game as a reason why probably doesn't help his cause.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 03:31:33 PM
Chico Hamilton III:

--- Quote ---as I expected it would be, it's full of hysterics an hyperbole
--- End quote ---


Yeah, whingeing Villa fans, paying the best part of a hundred quid, taking an afternoon off work to travel to North London on a Monday night before Christmas only to be served up with a pile of fucking rubbish...




I'm not saying you should be happy with the performance, but read the start of this thread back. It's full of block capitals and people saying things like AM is killing the club. How is that not hyperbole?  It seems to me that a lot of people were just waiting for a chance to really lay into Mcleish. But maybe you're right and he is complete shit, but losing away to spurs is hardly the worst thing I've seen a Villa side do so I'm just going to wait and see how we come back from this.

And where did I refer to whingeing Villa fans?  Maybe you have a complex?


i thought having a complex was the minimal requirement on here ?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mazrim on November 22, 2011, 03:34:13 PM
Ryu, I'm usually one of the first to plead for calm and reason but last night was so incredibly pathetic, lacklustre and hamfisted that there really is no defence of the team. They deserve absolute anything and everything they get and perhaps more besides.

Few expected a result but to be so gutless, lazy and clueless is just unacceptable. I can take anything but that.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 03:35:30 PM
I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.

Yes, I may have been one of those posters who predicted a difficult match. I think that's what we got.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: MarkM on November 22, 2011, 03:38:35 PM
More like the Norwich game? You mean getting outplayed for large periods, conceding 2 goals and desperately trying to hold on to a win at home against a team that 2 years ago were in division 3?

Each to their own, but I saw us play well and outplay Norwich more than they outplayed us, but then a defensive error made in a nervy finish.

I saw us get outplayed for half an hour, have less possession and shots on target than a side, as a said, that were a division 3 side 2 years ago.
Was it an exciting game, yes. Was it great seeing us holding on for the last 15 mins, no.
My point is, it was hardly a performance to use as a reference in defence of the manager.

I would agree,

I enjoyed the Norwich game, but dreaded the last 15 mins.

We won, but only just and it could have been a draw.

Loosing is one thing, but not trying is another, the team went out with the mentality of:

'Were expecting to loose, but playing for a draw. Lets not sacrifice the subs as we need them for Sunday as we have a chance against Swansea'

Another thing, if the clubs want to attract the fans back, playing like that will NOT do it!
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:39:31 PM
I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.

Yes, I may have been one of those posters who predicted a difficult match. I think that's what we got.

The difficulty was of our own making in letting in a sloppy 2nd - prior to that there was some 'ole football' going on just after Jenas came on and him and Petrov were keeping the ball superbly.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 03:41:14 PM
I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ryu on November 22, 2011, 03:44:09 PM
Maz is right last night was an indefensible display from a group of professional footballers. And you can't give the manager high marks either. I just think calling for the managers head is wrong and sacking him would be counter-productive.   
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 03:46:11 PM
Agree to a certain extent Ryu - calling for the manager's head is also largely pointless, as I think he's here for the long term.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Monty on November 22, 2011, 03:47:54 PM
Thought I'd give it a good half a day or so for it to sink in and try to analyse it in a more balanced and calm manner. On balance, though, it's hard to take anything at all from that performance.

The problems started from our fourth touch of the ball - Stan launching one up to Heskey on the left wing in a move that I have never seen work ever. That we didn't immediately lose the ball was rather down to luck, as every single other time we hoofed it, we lost it, inviting pressure onto us.

Which is basically the fundamental problem with McLeish - not only does he not seem to understand that hoofball is a poor attacking strategy, he also doesn't seem to get that it's a poor defensive one. Yes, Spurs are better than us, that absolutely goes without saying, but when you give them quite as easy a time with the ball as we did that hardly lessens the gap between the sides. If we'd been more patient in possession, waited more than just simply hoofing downfield, we could have done much better. Spurs are fantastic on the ball, but with players like Adebayor, Lennon and VDV are hardly the most dynamic pressers without it. The opportunity to hold the ball and lessen the likelihood of them getting chances was there - but instead, we just limply gave them the ball and the chance to attack us.

As for the goals, the first one belies the myth about Eck: he's not a good negative coach, just a negative one. I've said it before, but it's notable how goalkeepers' reputations always seem to go up in the sides he's managed, meaning a large concession of shots and chances. The set-piece organisation was abysmal. If you're going to do that style of football, you must at least do it well, and we're still so vulnerable at set-pieces.

The second was a bad defensive error, sure. But this is the problem with McLeish's style of disorganised, thrusty, blocky Dunkirk re-enactment defence: you are constantly relying on the luck of the bounce, and if you invite that much pressure by being so lax and profligate with the ball, sooner or later the luck will go the other way.

In short, it's not just not good enough, it's the exact opposite of everything we should be doing. I hate to say a phrase as cliched as "he doesn't know what he's doing", but in this case you really have to wonder. He's doing the opposite of what almost every successful manager given the same relative level of resources is doing and it's just not working.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 22, 2011, 03:50:29 PM
Maz is right last night was an indefensible display from a group of professional footballers. And you can't give the manager high marks either. I just think calling for the managers head is wrong and sacking him would be counter-productive.

Yet again I'm seeing the same poor excuse.

McLeish has the power to pick the players he wants. Collins has been in awful form for ages, yet he automatically gets picked over Clark who should be given a chance.

Collins will be picked for the Swansea game and if he makes the same errors, are you going to blame it on the players or this time are you gonna say "hang on a second? it's the manager who picks these players, why is he still picking players who are off form?"

And I don't see why can't we try and get rid of the manager? He has 2 relegations after all, he'll no doubt take us down if we don't do something about it. Liverpool made an effort of getting rid of their manager/owners, why can't we do the same? Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 03:50:42 PM
I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.

You'll have to help me out here - how is a 1-1 draw away from home embarassing?  Looking at QPRs form since, it's a respectable result for everyone bar the top clubs.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2011, 03:54:53 PM
Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

How many times are you going to come out with variations on "If you don't moan as much as me you're not a proper supporter"?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 22, 2011, 03:56:45 PM
I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.

You'll have to help me out here - how is a 1-1 draw away from home embarassing?  Looking at QPRs form since, it's a respectable result for everyone bar the top clubs.

He didn't say 1-1 was embarassing. It was the manner of the we played. The first half of the game (apart from last 5 mins) they were all over us. We couldn't even get out of half against a promotion team. The second half was abit better, but then we fell back into the black hole and allowed them to attack, attack, attack.

We've pretty much done this the whole season. The only reason why it hasn't been as noticeable is because we've hardly played any of the top 6 teams, you know teams better than us. Even when we played Everton, they were all over us.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 03:57:08 PM
I can't see massive changes coming for Swansea, so I'm going to predict

Given
Hutton Clark Dunne Warnock
Herd
Petrov Jenas
NZogbia               Gabby
Bent
I think you're nprobalby right - and it will do a lot better than last night - but we will still get mullered down the flanks.

I support the view that the back four should be changed, with Herd, Cuellar and Clark coming alongside Warnock. The MF would then comprise Petrov, Bannan, Jenas and Delph, with GA and DB upfront. N'Zog to come on for Petrov as he tires.
Won't happen, though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Merv on November 22, 2011, 03:57:21 PM
I can help you out.

The end result was acceptable, I agree. In fact, more than a bit frustrating, given the late own goal, that we didn't win.

But the performance... did you watch the game (not asking in an insulting way, just asking)? We were awful, John. QPR were all over us, we could barely pass the ball in the first half, in fact we barely crossed the halfway line. We nicked a penalty from nowhere but created hardly a thing ourselves.

QPR could and should have been three or four up by half-time. If anyone else on here thinks we played even reasonably on that day, please let me know. We've nicked points here and there to keep us out of the lower reaches of the table but it's performances like this that really leave me struggling for optimism.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 22, 2011, 04:06:15 PM
Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

How many times are you going to come out with variations on "If you don't moan as much as me you're not a proper supporter"?

I'm actually concerned the way McLeish has been playing us all this season and I'm not going to make excuses for him when he's already turning us into the new Blues. You may be fine with that, but I have a problem with it.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Ryu on November 22, 2011, 04:07:41 PM
--- Quote from: Compass on Today at 02:50:29 PM ---Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

--- End quote ---


What is it with you and people taking it up the arse?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 22, 2011, 04:08:00 PM
Agree to a certain extent Ryu - calling for the manager's head is also largely pointless, as I think he's here for the long term.

We can't afford to sack him anytime soon. (I do think he should be given more time, but the negatives have comfortably outweighed the positives so far and my patience is running out)

Doubling his wages seems increasingly crazy.  Randy's made a huge rod for his own back.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 04:08:05 PM
Maybe it's just me then, but I thought we defended well and weathered the storm of their early onslaught, which you'd expect from a newly promoted side still running on the adrenaline of being in the PL.  We grew into the game and were worth the point in the end, mainly for how we defended.

I know I'm in the minority in that opinion. 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 04:10:27 PM
The problems started from our fourth touch of the ball - Stan launching one up to Heskey on the left wing in a move that I have never seen work ever. That we didn't immediately lose the ball was rather down to luck, as every single other time we hoofed it, we lost it, inviting pressure onto us.

Which is basically the fundamental problem with McLeish - not only does he not seem to understand that hoofball is a poor attacking strategy, he also doesn't seem to get that it's a poor defensive one.

As for the goals, the first one belies the myth about Eck: he's not a good negative coach, just a negative one. I've said it before, but it's notable how goalkeepers' reputations always seem to go up in the sides he's managed, meaning a large concession of shots and chances. The set-piece organisation was abysmal. If you're going to do that style of football, you must at least do it well, and we're still so vulnerable at set-pieces.


Shrek - good points you've made here.
My biggest disappointment about the game Villa are playing is that the minimum requirement from this manager was a resolution of last season's defensive problems. So far, our defence has looked absolutely shocking.

As for the hoof n' hope tactics, not only is it not pretty it is - as you say - simply piling more and more pressure on the porous defence. Swansea WILL show us what the passing game is about on Sunday: they are precise, aggressive and mean in defence. They have a small set of players who are quick and sharp on the ball ... all the things that we are not, at the moment.

That's why I think it is a perfect time to try BB, GG and CC back in the side in some capacity; not only adding quality but also giving Herd the chance to play instead of Hutton.

I think we'll have a very tough time on Sunday; at least our recent poor record at WHL prepared us for defeat - Sunday's game may be the more embarrassing though.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 04:11:00 PM
                                                   Given

                                     Herd  Clarke  Cuellar Warnock
                                                      Delph
                                     Bannan  Gardiner Petrov Albrighton
                                                      Gabbs

to start at Swansea,

Swap Delph for Bent when we go 2 up,



EDIT,  meant to be for Swansea starting thread, everythings going wrong

                                 
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2011, 04:12:20 PM
Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

How many times are you going to come out with variations on "If you don't moan as much as me you're not a proper supporter"?

I'm actually concerned the way McLeish has been playing us all this season and I'm not going to make excuses for him when he's already turning us into the new Blues. You may be fine with that, but I have a problem with it.

You can have as many problem as you like, with as many things as you like, but don't make out you're better than anyone with a different view.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: barrysleftfoot on November 22, 2011, 04:27:53 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.

 I've been willing to give AM the benefit of the doubt, but to be quite frank if he sets out the team against Ure, Arse, 'The Mighty Reds YNWA' and Chelsk, up to the New Year, then hes not fit to be the manager of a club like AVFC.

 We are a hoofing team, and it is time to shape up or ship out for McLeish.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: dave.woodhall on November 22, 2011, 04:30:49 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.


Seriously? I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top twenty.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Damo70 on November 22, 2011, 04:34:34 PM
Setting our stall out to be solid and not conceed and hope Gabby and/or Bent score isn't working. Firstly due to defensive errors and secondly because the service to Gabby and Bent is so poor. We may as well change to a more attacking line up and go out on the front foot. If Jenas is ready to start then Herd and Clark could replace Cuellar and Collins in defence and drop Heskey and Hutton to give Bannan and Albrighton a chance.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Mister E on November 22, 2011, 04:34:39 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.


Seriously? I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top twenty.
Lest we forget the mid-1980's madness of McNeill the Muppet and the desperate days of Dolly's Dynasty ...
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 04:40:27 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.


Seriously? I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top twenty.

I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.
It really does seem as though it was damage limitation from team sheet handed in - final whistle.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Concrete John on November 22, 2011, 04:42:32 PM
I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.

Man City in the FA cup last year.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 22, 2011, 04:46:56 PM
The thing what gets me is the performance we put on yesterday is what we've been doing pretty much all season. It's just Spurs have such a good pass rate and pace that they exposed McLeish tactics what they're truly are. Clueless at best. We just have to be thankful for Spurs they're not really great at finishing because it would have been 6-0 without much effort for them.

But yeah, it's kind of strange how people say Spurs was the worse game they've seen in years when it's actually not considering there was a worse game just this season. The worst game was against Bolton . It was pretty much the same dice, but it was against weaker opposition (their reserves), the fact we played at home with the majority being in our starting XI and we still didn't create enough chances. We had one shot on target in the last 5 mins or so. Bolton hardly tried and could have won about 0-5 with their reserves at Villa Park.

That's the time where McLeish should have walked already.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 04:50:14 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.


Seriously? I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top twenty.

As I posted elsewhere, I've seen plenty of performances as miserable as last night, but I  can't really recall seeing so many which were quite so gutless from the moment the team sheet was handed in to the referee, certainly not in recent years.

EDIT just noticed PWD said the same thing above. What he said.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Risso on November 22, 2011, 05:02:29 PM
I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.

Man City in the FA cup last year.

I didn't agree with the FA Cup decision at all, but you could at least try and understand the reasoning behind it.  Spurs though, aren't on a different plane to us at all, and we should have gone there and had a go.  Their starting team last night didn't cost any more than ours, AND we had nearly £30m worth of midfielders on the bench.  I've seen just as many terrible displays, some a lot worse, but giving up like that before the game and then defending the decision afetrwards - load of rubbish.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: pauliewalnuts on November 22, 2011, 05:05:58 PM
Fulham had a right go at Spurs and could easily have got something out of the game.

We, on the other hand, shat our pants from the off and didn't even try to get anything. We weren't even trying to get the ball back.

It was pretty shameful stuff from the off, to be honest, and thoroughly embarassing. The sort of way you'd expect to see Wigan play at the Nou Camp.

What's more, the Man City surrender was in the line up. The players who played on the night at least gave it a go, in as much as they could. Last night was just feeble in every way.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: eastie on November 22, 2011, 05:06:32 PM
I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.

Man City in the FA cup last year.

I didn't agree with the FA Cup decision at all, but you could at least try and understand the reasoning behind it.  Spurs though, aren't on a different plane to us at all, and we should have gone there and had a go.  Their starting team last night didn't cost any more than ours, AND we had nearly £30m worth of midfielders on the bench.  I've seen just as many terrible displays, some a lot worse, but giving up like that before the game and then defending the decision afetrwards - load of rubbish.

Disagree on both counts , no justification or excuse for the team houllier put out in the cup at city, and spurs are far and away a much better team than us, gutless and pathetic display to be kind about it.

It was as though he sent them out with message to try and not not lose by too many -the whole club lacks ambition at management level, i was all for giving mcleish a chance but i am very pissed off at the awful football on show these days.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: PeterWithesShin on November 22, 2011, 05:09:40 PM
I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.

Man City in the FA cup last year.

I didn't agree with the FA Cup decision at all, but you could at least try and understand the reasoning behind it.  Spurs though, aren't on a different plane to us at all, and we should have gone there and had a go.  Their starting team last night didn't cost any more than ours, AND we had nearly £30m worth of midfielders on the bench.  I've seen just as many terrible displays, some a lot worse, but giving up like that before the game and then defending the decision afetrwards - load of rubbish.

Plus the fact there seemed little or no effort to change tactics during the game. 2-0 down at H-T and we go out and start the 2nd half with exactly the same line-up and game plan.
The only attempt to change things was Bannan for Carlos after 63 mins, with Hutton dropping to RB. How exactly was that meant to change things? Bannan hasn't played for a while, probably has quite a bit on his mind right now and has never scored from open play. Just struck me as a token sub to ease BB back in with the main aim remaining damage limitation.

I'd rather have gone for it and lost 4-0. At least go down fighting rather than waving a white flag.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: usav on November 22, 2011, 05:11:41 PM
I've seen far worse in my time, but struggle to think of too many games where from the second we put in the team sheet we seemed to have made little effort to win the game.

Well, he made a tactical move that you could say didn't work because we lost, or you could just say we lost because we are not as good as them.    I don't think it was a negative formation.   When the teamsheet came out a lot of people suspected 5-3-2 (including Redknapp) - it wasn't - and in fairness to Hutton he was pretty advanced up the pitch  in his right-side role.

However, I would have preferred we go there and give it a real good go.   I have nothing against Heskey, but that role is not right for him, most people can see that.   Zog should have played and although Jenas couldn't play last night, he should definitely feature in the next game.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: JUAN PABLO on November 22, 2011, 05:12:25 PM
Just been driving home , my mate had TS on .   The amount of people saying that is the worse Villa side they have ever seen .     thank you Randy   
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: D.boy on November 22, 2011, 05:41:38 PM
To set the side up to go out and defend from the off is all well and good but not when you have Laurel and Hardy and the Chuckle Brothers in defence and a midfield of Lenny Henry and Tim Vine.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Rancid custard on November 22, 2011, 05:48:09 PM
as soon as I saw the line up my heart sank, we were crying out for a link between defence and attack, would Hutton and Heskey on the wings be an outlet for that... That was one of the most gutless selections I think I've ever seen, defend for 90 minutes and hope to nick a goal, I think not.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Broughty-Villian on November 22, 2011, 05:55:16 PM
that display reminded me of why I was against AM being appointed as manager:

Aston Villa 5 - 1 Bloose. An abject display from his team, in a local derby and a game they had to win to stand any chance of staying up.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: barrysleftfoot on November 22, 2011, 06:18:06 PM


  I think taking everything into account, yes it was the worst performance i have ever witnessed.

  We have Englands C/F in our team at the moment, another potential England striker in the team, Eires CH and Goalie, Scotlands FB, and Englands back up FB.The supposed quality of our players now is far advanced on the quality of player under McN, and Turner for example.Gabby is a far better player than Penrice, as is Hutton over Comyn.I expected more yday, i did'nt expect much in the late 80s, as paulie said it was gutless, and that combined with the quality of player we have is why ydaya was the worst.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Nastylee on November 22, 2011, 06:50:42 PM


  I think taking everything into account, yes it was the worst performance i have ever witnessed.

Worse than our trip to Anfield last season?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: SoccerHQ on November 22, 2011, 07:01:25 PM
For giving up the game before it's even been played, last night dosen't come anywhere near Man. City away last season imo.

Made worse by Houllier pretty much admitting it afterwards.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Compass on November 22, 2011, 07:02:44 PM


  I think taking everything into account, yes it was the worst performance i have ever witnessed.

Worse than our trip to Anfield last season?

Absolutely. If you remember correctly we had quite a few injured players. Liverpool weren't as dominated as Spurs last night as well. I think the problem with that match was more to do with Houllier's infamous antics, which I though everyone overreacted. GT waved to us when he was managing another team so I didn't see the problem Houllier doing the same for Liverpool.

Oh, and has anyone seen McLeish's recent press interview? He blames the players for their defensive mistakes. Nothing about how they were set up. Nothing about how we never had a chance. Nope, he basically blamed them and won't own up that he is in fact just rubbish. But no doubt he'll still keep picking the same players who make the mistakes because he spouts alot of BS.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: john e on November 22, 2011, 07:10:52 PM


  I have to say, after watching Villa for 40 years that was the most pathetic  Villa display i have ever had the misfortune to witness.


Seriously? I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top twenty.


i accept that you would have seen far more Villa games than me, but i think it does make my top 20, just because it had everything we all warned against before he came and more,

i mean come on Dave,   Hutton and Heskey in a midfield role, its just unbelievable really, like you i've seen some crap down the years but that last night was right up there with the worst of it for me
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Boz on November 22, 2011, 07:20:08 PM
We're 4 points off 17th place and 7 points to next team above us with a series of games coming up, most of which we will lose if we continue like last night.

I thought four weeks ago we'd be floating above the relegation zone and it's looking like it, our main hope is there are three teams worse than us, but I suspect at least one of them will have more fight than the Villa.

The way we're set up, Bent will want to be away, as he sees his England squad place being threatened and who could blame him. AM has until Christmas I reckon, and if we are in the bottom three or just above it, Randy will have him out the door I hope. I just couldn't believe they gave him a long contract. They should have offered him a rolling one year at a fair wage with bonuses based on league position, but once again they will have to pay significant money to get rid of him and his sidekicks. Randy or whoever advises him couldn't run a teashop never mind a multi million pound football club.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: gervilla on November 22, 2011, 07:42:53 PM
Paid out to O'Neill.
Paid out to Houllier.
Paid out to blues to get AM in.
Randy aint gonna pay out again so AM won't be sacked.
We are stuck with him .
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Flamingo Lane on November 22, 2011, 07:53:14 PM
It was truly abject.  Though, by way of perspective, we have not a single player who would make the Spurs best starting XI and probably only two who would be good enough to warm their bench.  And I don't think that can be laid at our present manager's door.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Villanation on November 22, 2011, 08:19:38 PM
It was truly abject.  Though, by way of perspective, we have not a single player who would make the Spurs best starting XI and probably only two who would be good enough to warm their bench.  And I don't think that can be laid at our present manager's door.

I couldn't agree with that, we have players that could step up a level and respond to that challenge, convinced of that, I would consider Bent would challenge for a place in the current Spurs side, convinced Gabby could, Bannan is already on the hit list  of some top clubs, Given is now proving himself fit which was his only drawback which would put him in contention for most sides again.

Problem is our better players like Bent have gone to sleep, playing as we are the man gets no service and if he takes 1 in 3 to convert that pretty much means he's hardly ever going to get of the mark for Villa, Gabby is being stifled slowly but surely, yes he's started the season well and he's scored some decent goals and he's trying but can you imagine a Gabriel Agbonlahor fronting a team like the spuds or playing with players like Bale that can actually pass a ball and get it to the player its meant for, playing for a side that want to get forward with pace.

Fact is we have a manager that hasn't a clue, you could have made the excuse with what he had to work with at Blues, that can't be made at Villa, we are churning out the same kind of results as Blues did last year because we are playing the same way.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: caster troy on November 22, 2011, 08:40:15 PM
We need an inspirational manager who our average players and promising youngsters will run through brick walls for, not Mcleish who just tells them to hide behind the wall.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on November 22, 2011, 09:48:34 PM
We have three homes games coming up, two are against teams which are probably of similar strength to Spurs and one which is undoubtedly stronger.
We cannot simply attempt a purely negative approach for this 270 plus minutes of play, conversely a totally gung-ho attitude would be suicidal. There has to be a balance, but that balance must be  weighed notably more to the offensive than anything displayed at White Hart Lane.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Somniloquism on November 22, 2011, 09:56:33 PM
For giving up the game before it's even been played, last night dosen't come anywhere near Man. City away last season imo.

Made worse by Houllier pretty much admitting it afterwards.

Well McCleish admitted it as well.

Although the Moscow and Citeh cup games were both given up on before KO, you could see the reasoning as the league seemed more important in both cases (albeit at different ends). And at least you are also blooding some youngsters and they might want to play to keep a place in the team. Last night the only youngster we played was Herd and that seemed to be more that he was the best DM in the club then anything else.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: barrysleftfoot on November 22, 2011, 10:31:37 PM


 What kind of message was last night teams selection giving out.

  N'Zog, Bannan, Ireland.......you're not good enough to play against Spuds

  Gabby and Bent.........whwen you knock on my door in Jan, how am i going to reassure you that we are an ambitious club?

  McL needs to realise he has moved across the city.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chris Smith on November 23, 2011, 05:45:08 AM
I haven't read the thread and don't intend to. I didn't watch the game and do not intend to.

We lost to a much better team, one that has seen continuous investment for about ten years but one which were behind us not so long ago. These things go in cycles.

It appears that the manager tried a couple of different things to try to stop one of the form sides in the league. It didn't work but he's entitled to try and I doubt the result would gave been much different whatever we'd done.

According to many on here getting to sixth was "easy", they were wrong then and it makes me less inclined to take any notice of their opinions now.

Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 23, 2011, 06:31:01 AM
I don't think many thought it was easy to get to sixth place.  It clearly wasn't and took a lot of investment to do so.

Chris, I agree that Spurs would probably have won the game anyway (not that the management / coaching staff / players should ever feel that way about any match, they get paid way too much money to write games off), but the team selection was woeful. 

Our players struggled to keep the ball for more than 2 passes, yet Bannan and Ireland didn't play.  We had two inform strikers on the pitch, yet decided to play Heskey and Hutton out wide.  That despite N'Zogbia having played well in recent weeks.   We have conceded silly goals from set pieces in recent weeks, yet the same underperforming defenders are picked.

Mcleish speaks well in interview, but is failing to back up his words.

Most fans have come to terms with the lowering of ambitions, the least we want to see is an effort to play attractive football and attack. (against every team we play, not just your Norwich's and Wigan's)
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chris Smith on November 23, 2011, 06:48:00 AM
Quote
Most fans have come to terms with the lowering of ambitions, the least we want to see is an effort to play attractive football and attack. (against every team we play, not just your Norwich's and Wigan's)

Great in theory but Spurs are the form team in the league and if by playing an open game we've conceded five he'd now be getting slaughtered for being naive.

I'm not defending the selection as it clearly didn't work but rather his right to try it.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Eigentor on November 23, 2011, 07:07:26 AM
Quote
Most fans have come to terms with the lowering of ambitions, the least we want to see is an effort to play attractive football and attack. (against every team we play, not just your Norwich's and Wigan's)

Great in theory but Spurs are the form team in the league and if by playing an open game we've conceded five he'd now be getting slaughtered for being naive.

I'm not defending the selection as it clearly didn't work but rather his right to try it.

So you're saying the the manager has a right to select the team?

Some controversial comments you're coming with here.

What next, the referee might have been wrong but has the right to act as match official?
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: Chris Smith on November 23, 2011, 07:14:19 AM
It is controversial on here as he's getting stick for not doing exactly as posters are demanding. As I said I didn't watch the game but can see the logic in setting up to try to stop Bale. I've been told how crap we were so accept that it didn't work but we all know that if he'd tried a more attacking formation and that had failed many of the same people would be giving him stick for that instead.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: taylorsworkrate on November 23, 2011, 07:20:55 AM
It is controversial on here as he's getting stick for not doing exactly as posters are demanding. As I said I didn't watch the game but can see the logic in setting up to try to stop Bale. I've been told how crap we were so accept that it didn't work but we all know that if he'd tried a more attacking formation and that had failed many of the same people would be giving him stick for that instead.

I remember in 07/08 when we lost at Old Trafford, how happy me and my mates were that we'd had a go, and taken the game to Manure. 

Maybe its just my personal opinion, but i'd rather get stuffed 4-0 / 4-1 having a go, rather than beat 1-0 never having given ourselves a chance.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: oldtimernow on November 23, 2011, 08:01:57 AM
perhaps AM is already looking at the goal difference come season's end.....about -14 by my reckoning
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: batucada on November 23, 2011, 06:34:19 PM
So much of football is about motivation and self belief. If the manager virtually tells the players  before the game that they aint gonna win is it any wonder that they played like that.
Title: Re: Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread
Post by: cheltenhamlion on November 24, 2011, 06:58:27 PM
Perhaps its because I am old fashioned but it ruins me to watch any fixture where a team sets up for damage limitation. That's not the football I enjoy.

At a push you can understand a tiny team in the cup against one of the big boys doing it but in your own league?

I don't mind us losing, I can understand us falling from where we were based on cash flow and previous errors of judgement. But to not try? Against fucking Spurs? I just can't accept that.

Fair enough, they have a better team than us. They have been managed significantly better both in terms of the quality on the pitch and the control of finances.

But at least try to give them a game. Stourbridge took it to Plymouth. Norwich took it to Man Ure at Old Trafford. We took it up the arse.
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