Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Mister E on October 29, 2011, 06:57:54 PM
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I was really impressed with Herd today and he seemed to give Petrov more time on the ball (and, I guess, for some on here that may be a bad thing ...).
With BB as a third CMF, perhaps this is finally the combo we've been looking for.
What your view on this?
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would like to see ireland play instead of petrov
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I would put Ireland for Bannan
Its possibly the best trio we have @ the club
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think i agree with you, even think we should go with herd, delph,bannon and ireland
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The fact that you are discussing a player to partner someone like Petrov demonstrates how low the club is at the moment. Petrov is a distinctly average player. In fact, I'd argue he's part of the problem why we play such boring, slow football a lot of the time.
How about Herd, Clark, Bannan or Gardner? I'd much rather see them.
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Throwing all the youngsters in at the same time was what we had to do last season during the injury crisis, and it wasn't a great success. Slag off Petrov all you want, he isn't a great player, but the moment he's out for a couple of matches, we'll start to miss him.
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Think its too early to judge him. We had it over albrighton last seasons and over hogg after manure home. It would be good to judge his character after a bad spell imo
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Throwing all the youngsters in at the same time was what we had to do last season during the injury crisis, and it wasn't a great success. Slag off Petrov all you want, he isn't a great player, but the moment he's out for a couple of matches, we'll start to miss him.
Unlike now, when he's playing week in and week out, and we're a flying success. Oh for the greatness of Petrov.
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Think its too early to judge him. We had it over albrighton last seasons and over hogg after manure home. It would be good to judge his character after a bad spell imo
I don't think anyone thought anything would come of Hogg. Certainly no-one with any idea of football anyway.
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Throwing all the youngsters in at the same time was what we had to do last season during the injury crisis, and it wasn't a great success. Slag off Petrov all you want, he isn't a great player, but the moment he's out for a couple of matches, we'll start to miss him.
Unlike now, when he's playing week in and week out, and we're a flying success. Oh for the greatness of Petrov.
Getting a point in a game in which he scores his second brilliant goal of the season is a lot better than yet another defeat.
Which is exactly what we'd be enjoying if we'd played any two of Clark, Gardner and Herd today.
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Give Gardner a chance.
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Think its too early to judge him. We had it over albrighton last seasons and over hogg after manure home. It would be good to judge his character after a bad spell imo
I don't think anyone thought anything would come of Hogg. Certainly no-one with any idea of football anyway.
There was talk after the manure game that he'd make it. Its similar with herd, he was awesome against wolves, for half an hour against baggies he was good, I haven't seen him today so I can't judge. But its best for now to cool off and watch how he develops
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Throwing all the youngsters in at the same time was what we had to do last season during the injury crisis, and it wasn't a great success. Slag off Petrov all you want, he isn't a great player, but the moment he's out for a couple of matches, we'll start to miss him.
Unlike now, when he's playing week in and week out, and we're a flying success. Oh for the greatness of Petrov.
Getting a point in a game in which he scores his second brilliant goal of the season is a lot better than yet another defeat.
Which is exactly what we'd be enjoying if we'd played any two of Clark, Gardner and Herd today.
Wow. Psychic Sally at her peak! What would the score have been then?
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Well, we'd have scored one less for a start.
Unless you think that have Clark playing out of position or a child making their debut was going to magically make us score more?
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We need someone to play in front of the back 4 and control things. Could Stan do that? Has he already tried and failed? Isn't that what Delph was for? Could Clark do that job? Is that why Herd's in? What do Bannan, Ireland add to the team? And what the f**k are we doing playing Heskey in midfield?
Afraid we have a lot of possibles but none of them are better than anyone else.
We also need to play as a unit that moves up and down the field and keeps its shape. We seem to be playing as 11 complete individuals, not a team.
Sorry. Mad, frustrated whinge!
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Herd was decent today but I'm not sure he's the long term solution. I'd like to see him over a run of games to see how he develops before making my mind up.
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We need someone to play in front of the back 4 and control things. Could Stan do that? Has he already tried and failed? Isn't that what Delph was for? Could Clark do that job? Is that why Herd's in? What do Bannan, Ireland add to the team? And what the f**k are we doing playing Heskey in midfield?
Afraid we have a lot of possibles but none of them are better than anyone else.
We also need to play as a unit that moves up and down the field and keeps its shape. We seem to be playing as 11 complete individuals, not a team.
Sorry. Mad, frustrated whinge!
Well, having watched the whole game today I thought that Herd was starting to patrol in front of the back four pretty effectively. I thought that as a consequence of that, Petrov played with more freedom and - interestingly - did not seem to tire as much as he usually does. As someone else said, Petrov may not be everyone's choice but he is the senior player in MF and does lots of unsung effective work.
For me, the bottom line is that McMinge needs to decide what his best 11 is and start committing to them. At the moment the Petrov / Herd combo looks like a compatible matching and so the issue is who else he plays in a MF three. Although Ivanoe did surprisingly okay today, I'd be looking for more creativity; hence BB (BB over Ireland for his commitment; Ireland is a flake IMHO).
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Herd isn't good enough in possession, countless times he gave the ball away today. Like Hogg, he'll get found out against the better times in the winter. I'd rather see him get another go at RB as Hutton was bleeding awful for the first goal.
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Didn't go today so happy to be guided by those who did.
We could see the Herd/Petrov thing working last week with Stan getting forward a lot more than usual, which I think is his "natural" position and where he did so well for Celtic. Then Herd got "sent off" and we know the rest.
I agree EffDee, we need to have a "best" 11 and as solid a midfield as possible, then shuffle/reshuffle from there. I'm prone to go with Delph and perhaps BB; although the latter looks good on the ball I've yet to see him create very much at all! (I wish Ireland would step up to the standard he did a few years ago but that's looking more and more doubtful as he hardly plays and when he does is pretty ineffectual).
January window?
Who? (Heard Carrick mentioned today, but not convinced?)
And what about Jenas?
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I thought Herd was a right back? I really need to get up to speed.
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I thought Herd was a right back? I really need to get up to speed.
Nope, listed as MF on the OS.
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I thought Herd was a right back? I really need to get up to speed.
He's filled in at RB, an indication of his superb defensive qualities!
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The fact that you are discussing a player to partner someone like Petrov demonstrates how low the club is at the moment. Petrov is a distinctly average player. In fact, I'd argue he's part of the problem why we play such boring, slow football a lot of the time.
How about Herd, Clark, Bannan or Gardner? I'd much rather see them.
Petrov for me has never been anything more than average. Played well today but we all know that come january after 50 mins he will be breathing out of his arse again.
This should be heskey's and petrov's last season so i would like to see them used sparingly
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I thought Herd was a right back? I really need to get up to speed.
He's filled in at RB, an indication of his superb defensive qualities!
I suppose given recent years I should never assume the guy playing at right back is playing in his natural position!
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The fact that you are discussing a player to partner someone like Petrov demonstrates how low the club is at the moment. Petrov is a distinctly average player. In fact, I'd argue he's part of the problem why we play such boring, slow football a lot of the time.
Bingo! Petrov is the next biggest (after Mcleish, of course) reason we play propably the most boring football in PL. As a creative (well at least supposed to be one) central midfielder and a captain he should not only be playing intelligent passing football but also to communicate with players around him to keep the formation a compact unit. But no, I don't see any of that from Petrov. By hoisting long balls most of the time (and allowing other players to do that too) instead of trying to play with short passes gives a signal for the rest of the players that not only is it acceptable but a way to go. And what's with his posture?! Every time he gets the ball his posture collapses in a way that it seems he really struggles running with the ball and passing it.
The club captaincy thing really depresses me since it makes him pretty much untouchable when selecting the starting XI. And since he is just 31 years old and Mcleish is just in his first year of the contract and thus unlikely to depart anytime soon, things are highly unlikely to change at least in a next couple of years I think :( :(
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I thought Herd was a right back? I really need to get up to speed.
He's filled in at RB, an indication of his superb defensive qualities!
I suppose given recent years I should never assume the guy playing at right back is playing in his natural position!
Perhaps it's a very slow, steady move towards the total football we saw played by Holland in the 70s/80s, and more recently Arsenal and Barcelona? Anyhting they can do....;-)
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Tepavilla. Have you got a mind of your own. Don't assume everyone hates the manager. Why not give Petrov a chance. He has been a good servant to this club but has been a regular scapegoat with morons.
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Give Petrov a chance ???? How many chances does he need? Yes he scored a great goal today, and at Everton but to analyse his overall effectiveness for us imo he is a major disappointment, too many sideways or long balls, his stamina has always been suspect and I agree with tepavilla he is the main reason we play boring football with little midfield creativity. we need a player like Scott Parker who has the strength but also the imagination.Petrov is an average player at best.
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If we could combine Herd with Delph we would have an outstanding player.
Herd is full of energy and tackles very effectively. Needs to learn how best to use the ball he has won but at this stage in his career there is every possibility that he will make it.
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Petrov's on the way out. No disrespect to the guy but in an ideal world (or when we had money) he'd be coming on as a sub not starting games We'll see how Herd progresses but if he does we should be looking for someone to partner him not petrov
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Have a feeling that AM has seen enough of Delph and will move him on, has Gardner dropped down the pecking order? i thought he was next in line for a go in midfield.
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aye. can't see delph getting a look in unless we get clobbered with injuries but again who will buy him? or more realistically, who will buy him without us making a spectacular loss on the deal. Reckon we're running out of options but hopefully Jenas will add something when we finally get him fit.
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No disrespect to the guy but in an ideal world (or when we had money) he'd be coming on as a sub not starting games
I agree.
Unfortunately, back in the real world he is still our best central midfielder.
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I think Herd is very adaptable and will play at the level of those around him rather than control the game. He seems to have enough though as a combatative midfielder and enough stamina to get up and down the pitch.
Delph will come good, he has had less than 30 appearances in 2 and a bit years and a run of injuries which has made him try too hard to live up to his price tag. A bit of time in the reserves now to settle down and work on earning another shot will do him good.
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I don't know what Petrov has to do to get some credit. He was our best player today along with Gabby. He's not the greatest but he scored, assisted and played a major role in our complete domination of the second half. I'd like better, we haven't got it, he's staying in the side for the foreseeable.
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I don't know what Petrov has to do to get some credit. He was our best player today along with Gabby. He's not the greatest but he scored, assisted and played a major role in our complete domination of the second half. I'd like better, we haven't got it, he's staying in the side for the foreseeable.
This.
"Petrov might be a decent player, but the only reason that we're thinking that is because we're shit" is similar to the argument that "A point at Sunderland may be a decent result, but the only reason that we're thinking that is because we're shit". There may be some truth in that, but it doesn't add much to the debate.
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I thought Herd was pretty good when Sunderland has possession and pretty poor when we had it. Very much like NRC he has to improve his retention of the ball otherwise his ball winiing qualities will count for little.
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Herd is'nt a bad player in that position.When he plays he gives us more options than any other midfielder than what we have at the moment.With Herd you can any 2 from Bannan/Ireland/Petrov/Delph/Jenas/Gardener. And that is why he should be playing.
For me withJenas and Bannan/Ireland.Petrov does'nt move the ball, or himself, quick enough.
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I don't know what Petrov has to do to get some credit. He was our best player today along with Gabby. He's not the greatest but he scored, assisted and played a major role in our complete domination of the second half. I'd like better, we haven't got it, he's staying in the side for the foreseeable.
Hard to disagree with this assessment.
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I thought Petrov played well yesterday, although when I saw we were playing 4-4-2 I thought he'd struggle. He proved me wrong, with a cracking goal and good all round midfield play. I'm convinced his stamina levels have doubled this season!
That said, I still think we get the most out of him when he plays as part of a midfield three, or as an 'anchorman' where he can provide a link between the defence and the rest. We joke about his sideways passes but he rarely gives the ball away, and is an intelligent player (although towards the end yesterday he just punted one up in the air when he had the time to play a pass and keep us in possession).
Herd did OK, but I don't think we've seen enough to say he's the perfect partner (I thought he did better when he played right-back, to be honest). His passing wasn't great yesterday, but he worked hard enough and closed down players when needed.
I really hope Jenas can get fit and in form quickly, because I reckon a Bannan-Petrov-Jenas midfield three would be very effective.
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Im still shaking my head that Heskey has been playing in midfield .
Lets hope Herd becomes a good player , I was suprised how good he is in the air .
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I don't know what Petrov has to do to get some credit. He was our best player today along with Gabby. He's not the greatest but he scored, assisted and played a major role in our complete domination of the second half. I'd like better, we haven't got it, he's staying in the side for the foreseeable.
100% THIS.
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I would put Ireland for Bannan
Its possibly the best trio we have @ the club
Me too, the guy really does need a GOOD run.
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We had the partner for Petrov - Makoun and Reo Coker. Didn't try hard enough to keep them? or they had more ambition? Dunno?
Petrov holds the midfield together and sometimes you need an experienced player in that position. When he wasn't playing last season it was like a massive hole appeared in the middle of the park. He has his bad days, but so does everyone.
Petrov should be the holding player and have Delph/Bannan playing just in front. Give Gardner a game every now and again.
Jenas - forget him, 3 months into the season and still not fit! He wont play more than 10 games this season.
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Reo Coker is showing us just what we're missing by the way he's transformed Bolton.
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I think the Herd and Petrov combination looks good I would stick with it.
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Reo Coker is showing us just what we're missing by the way he's transformed Bolton.
Nice jibe. I couldn't care less what he's doing at Bolton, but he did a decent job here last season, and we haven't got anyone who has managed to replace him.
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Reo Coker is showing us just what we're missing by the way he's transformed Bolton.
Nice jibe. I couldn't care less what he's doing at Bolton, but he did a decent job here last season, and we haven't got anyone who has managed to replace him.
I dunno, we don't seem to be having too much trouble fielding players who can't pass or shoot.
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Herd's distribution ain't bad; he used the ball sensibly yesterday, without trying to over-elaborate.
Petrov is so underrated on this site, it's amazing! I used to be a critic of his but I do think he's come into his own in the last 9 months.
And as for NRC: he has looked shocking for bolt-on this season; I would have kept him, but I have to say he has really not done himself any favours so far.
I'm really interested in whether Jenas will play for us at all make a significant difference to our MF.
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Delph will come good, he has had less than 30 appearances in 2 and a bit years and a run of injuries which has made him try too hard to live up to his price tag. A bit of time in the reserves now to settle down and work on earning another shot will do him good.
Don't we have to pay Leeds an additional £2m for Delph, I assume, based on appearances?
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Herd's done nothing significantly wrong so far, given time he could grow into the role. A real positive in these times of financial pressure, one less positionwe need to fil in January. His covering play does seem to have taken a weight off of Perov's shoulders. Petrov was always an attacking midfielder, granted it didn't work for him in his 1st season here; but he's had so much more experience of the Prem now he may be more capable of pushing higher up the pitch. The quality of his finish yesterday shows that he is a creditable goal threat, and the Gods know we need that at the moment. Also the delivery of the freekick for the 2nd goal was better than almost anything we saw from Ash (not a dig at Young, just an opinion).
Jenas (we wait to see) or Bannan as the playmaker, it might just work.
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I read that Cabeye was lined up had Houllier stayed. He had a pretty decent eye for a footballer. I wonder where we would be now had he come back to health.
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Regards the chap we have on loan from THFC let us hope Jenas is our Dave Mackay and that Big Eck has done a Clough.
Mr Petrov are you really our Mortimer ?
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Reo Coker is showing us just what we're missing by the way he's transformed Bolton.
Nice jibe. I couldn't care less what he's doing at Bolton, but he did a decent job here last season, and we haven't got anyone who has managed to replace him.
I dunno, we don't seem to be having too much trouble fielding players who can't pass or shoot.
Reading last weeks Birmingham Post both NRC & Knight seem to be more interested in this, predictably.
http://www.birminghampost.net/life-leisure-birmingham-guide/postfeatures/2011/10/28/john-paul-mcguirk-makes-the-stars-shine-65233-29665263/
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Herd has done well so far, but his two midfield starts so far have both been against sides I'd expect to finish in the bottom half, so lets not get too carried away. However, with the tougher games in December we'll know a lot more about him by the time January come round and hopefully he'll drop the required players by 1.
As for playing with Petrov, I don't think it's that he suits him particularly, but rather that he's what the side as a whole has been missing - a bit of midfield bite!
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It's very much a case of using the best of what we have in midfield. We're nowhere near good enough in that department, and it's almost heartbreaking to read that Houllier had lined up Cabeye prior to his departure, and even that McLeish wanted Larsson, but moved too late for him.
Petrov never convinced me in this anchorman/defensive midfield role that MON carved out for him, and I believe it was more a case of him having to play that role with so many other offensive-minded midfielders around him - Milner, Young, Downing.
We need to have better than Petrov starting, but we haven't got that player at the club, and Petrov does at least have a touch of class and composure about him. I can see the benefit of him having a more athletic type alongside him. Herd looks okay, like he could do that job. Drop the Heskey in midfield experiment and we could have Herd and Delph as an old fashioned midfield pairing - Jenas comes into the equation when fit - and Petrov playing slightly forward with a bit more freedom.
I'd still prefer Bannan or Ireland in that attacking mid role, but Bannan's unavailable for now and I still don't know what to make of Ireland.
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Agree with all of that, Merv.
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As was said at the time, the health thing with Houllier was a smokescreen. It was logical not to continue with him under those circumstances, but i don't think he'd have been still in charge if he hadn't fell ill. Randy didn't fancy financing his spending, and add in the losses of flogging off the "gits" cheap and replacing them, it was never a goer. Basically we've suffered a bad case of the tail wagging the dog, and as often happens when the players choose who manages them, it seldom goes much better than before
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Can'y help thinking that we have wasted Petrov in this holding role. I accept he took a fair old time to settle but he built his whole career on being an attacking goalscoring midfielder and then MON converted him to a role that has never really suited him.
Now he's been given more licence to get forward, he showed some real class at times this season. McLeish obviously saw a lot of him in Scotland.
Anyway, even though he keeps being written off, I think he's probably been our best player along with Gabby this season, so good luck to him.
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It reminds me of what some coaches do when they have an aging playmaker on their hands. The 'legs have gone', so they put a couple of dynamic players around him to take the pressure off, and allow the playmaker to concentrate on what he's best at.
It might work with Petrov. He's only, what 31, 32? His time as a starting player should be limited but if there's a way to get the best out of him until then, I'm all for it. It could be one of McLeish's smarter moves.
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The two are doing as well as they can, but we still lack the creative edge in there to retain the ball. I thought the best football we've played recently was with that midfield trio of Herd playing deep, Bannan as the creative force and Petrov linking the two and making the occasional burst forward. Granted, Herd then got ridiculously sent off and we mentally crumbled, but that was the best it's been so far.
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The two are doing as well as they can, but we still lack the creative edge in there to retain the ball. I thought the best football we've played recently was with that midfield trio of Herd playing deep, Bannan as the creative force and Petrov linking the two and making the occasional burst forward. Granted, Herd then got ridiculously sent off and we mentally crumbled, but that was the best it's been so far.
Although I'm not a fan of the system in general, I thought the midfield diamond we played against Wigan was our best and most balanced showing so far this season.
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Although I'm not a fan of the system in general, I thought the midfield diamond we played against Wigan was our best and most balanced showing so far this season.
That was good actually, because we largely got around the classic problem with the diamond - ie the lack of width - because Gabby kept on running channels and drifting into wide positions, especially the left. Not sure if it's a generally applicable system though, as you say.
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Been very impressed with Herd. Would like to see Bannan or Ireland give 10 games in Heskeys position
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Although I'm not a fan of the system in general, I thought the midfield diamond we played against Wigan was our best and most balanced showing so far this season.
The diamond worked because it strengthen our biggest weakness, and added 2 of our most creative players in Bannan and Ireland into the same side. For me, we should be looking to play similar style next week vs Norwich, with Bent and Gabby up, Ireland in behind, Petrov and Jenas giving the legs and Herd holding.
That was good actually, because we largely got around the classic problem with the diamond - ie the lack of width - because Gabby kept on running channels and drifting into wide positions, especially the left. Not sure if it's a generally applicable system though, as you say.
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Although I'm not a fan of the system in general, I thought the midfield diamond we played against Wigan was our best and most balanced showing so far this season.
The diamond worked because it strengthen our biggest weakness, and added 2 of our most creative players in Bannan and Ireland into the same side. For me, we should be looking to play similar style next week vs Norwich, with Bent and Gabby up, Ireland in behind, Petrov and Jenas giving the legs and Herd holding.
That was good actually, because we largely got around the classic problem with the diamond - ie the lack of width - because Gabby kept on running channels and drifting into wide positions, especially the left. Not sure if it's a generally applicable system though, as you say.
I don't think Jenas will be fit for Norwich and playing Petrov in one of the wider positions in a diamond would be a mistake for me as I don't think he has the legs for it. Having Bannan and Ireland was good, as you say, but I also think it helped having Delph a little further forward as he's not really a holding player.
One issue we have with width is that our main two wide players so far this season, Gabby and N'Zogbia, both look to score themselves more than create, which hurts Bent. I've been thinking that we need to get Albrighton back in to get some service to Bent, so would maybe try N'Zog behind Bent in the freer role he had at Wigan and leave Gabby cutting in from the left.
Given
Hutton - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Herd - Petrov
Albrighton - NZogbia - Gabby
Bent
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Given
Hutton - Dunne - Collins - Warnock
Herd - Petrov
Albrighton - NZogbia - Gabby
Bent
I like your thinking here (although Clark for Collins wouldn't be bad ...); particularly the logic re Albie and Bent.
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Petrov has been played wrong by MON, Houllier and McLeish. Sitting him in front of the back 4 just get's him fucked after 60 mins. Maybe Herd should do this and Petrov and Bannan play a little furthur forward.
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We need another winger and a good centre midfielder this jan. That will help us get the best out of Bent and Pterov.
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Dont think it is worth speculating about additions in January, just cant see it happening maybe someone from lower divisions as squad players but no one that will alter our season
Only changes will be movements out of players not contributing
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Dont think it is worth speculating about additions in January, just cant see it happening maybe someone from lower divisions as squad players but no one that will alter our season
Only changes will be movements out of players not contributing
I think if space can be made on the wagebill then there might well be someone decent coming in.
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The thing with our wage bill is that people like heskey and beye are on silly money and will just run their contracts down.
We are down to the bare bones squad wise, you only have to look at the bench.
I think it is as you were squad wise until the end of the season
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When we get to January 3 high earning players (Cuellar, Beye & Heskey) will have six months left. That brings in two possibilities:-
1. An offer comes in for them that they take as it's a longer deal.
2. Randy may bite the bullet for the sake of six months only, if it's the right player.
I'm not saying this will happen, just that I wouldn't rule it out.
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What we should do, is say to Beye and Heskey they can leave for free in january.
They might not want to go, but give them the option to try and free up space on the wage bill.
And i also agree the Herd, Petrov and Bannan is our best midfield option with Jenas replacing Petrov when he is 100% fit.
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Come back Sidwell, all is forgiven.
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Perfect no , but herd is the best weve got in the club to play alongside stan and deserves a run, and with jenas fit and available id like to see jenas and either ireland or bannan with heskey and nzogbia left out
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Come back Sidwell, all is forgiven.
What did he do that we've forgotten about?
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I would like to see Clark given a go in central midfield. I also think Albrighton is our best chance of giving Bent the service he needs.
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This seasons Robert Pires: Mo Salifou?
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Come back Sidwell, all is forgiven.
What did he do that we've forgotten about?
The way he threw the ball to Milner to take the quick throw-in was pure class.
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Well, they played pretty well together today. Herd's covering was excellent, his tackling generally was good and he made simple passes. Looked cool throughout. Petrov played well, too.
With JJ in there as a third strong CMF, we might do rather better than we have done to date.
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I like JJ and think he could be very good, Herd played nicely from what I saw.
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Just another thought: I watched the Barcodes game today - and am watching the QPR game - and the distinguishing feature of the game was the way that their midfield harried and harassed throughout; never gave Everton a moment's peace. As QPR are doing to Citeh at the moment.
Combined with this dynamic midfield approach is the fact that their defnece played quite high up the pitch - conceding nothing to the oppo's attack; confident that the fullbacks would be able to cover effectively if required.
I think we're playing deep defensively - a concession to Dunne and Collins perhaps - and the FB are played more attackingly. This means that unless we have a good, solid CMF we are bound to leak goals and give away free kicks. So, we need at least three in CMF.
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I like JJ and think he could be very good, Herd played nicely from what I saw.
Yes he did. He covers the pitch and tackles superbly. This kid could be Milner with class added. On JJ ok he came on in an easy 3-1 up situation but he has some composure and guile about him. So could work out well.
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For me was MOM after Gabby today.Won every header he went for, used the ball well, has composure on the ball.Will get better and better.He and Petrov played well today, but i thought the balance of the team when Heskey and Petrov went off, and Jenas and Ireland came on looked a lot better.
Good times ahead.
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I would like to see Clark given a go in central midfield. I also think Albrighton is our best chance of giving Bent the service he needs.
i personally think albrighton has been utter shit every time he has touched the ball this season!
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For me was MOM after Gabby today.Won every header he went for, used the ball well, has composure on the ball.Will get better and better.He and Petrov played well today, but i thought the balance of the team when Heskey and Petrov went off, and Jenas and Ireland came on looked a lot better.
Good times ahead.
You seen what i seen. Herd can make the position his own. He's a Rio coker without the bent feet, he can only get better. Love the 1930s hair style too, like a proper footballer.
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Thought Herd had a quietly excellent game today. Gabby takes the headlines and deservedly so, but Herd and Petrov in the centre were class I thought today.
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Herd was fantastic today. A real joy to watch.
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I've got to say fair play to him, I didn't think he'd ever make it and he might not. However his performances this season have been great.
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Fair play to him, Petrov and McLeish for their ability and willingness to give him a chance there. Petrov has moved roles really well since the start of the season, moving forward more and becoming more effective for us as the best and most calm passer of the ball we have further up the pitch, while Herd has the legs Petrov has clearly lost to cover behind him. Like an old school action man.
He reminds me a bit of Steve Watson for some reason. Maybe a bit better. But similar.
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Both Herd and Petrov were fantastic today. I can't remember the last time Petrov played that well for us.
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He's been a real pleasant surprise I must say. What I like about him is his big heart for the cause.
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Just watched the 90 minute coverage and was very happy with his performance today. Didn't tire too badly, neat and tidy in possession and seemed to hold his position very well throughout. Promising.
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As said above, the good bits of Reo-Coker without the bad bits.
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I do not remember Herd's name being touted as a potential player very often compared to say the Fonz and Albrighton. Has he literally come from relatively no where or is it that he plays in less noticeable positions?
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I do not remember Herd's name being touted as a potential player very often compared to say the Fonz and Albrighton. Has he literally come from relatively no where or is it that he plays in less noticeable positions?
He did not stand out in the reserves or Academy squads but always got picked and got new contracts. I suppose he was the type of player rarely appreciated by the fans but always appreciated by the manager who could see the contribution he made. A slow burner!"
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Didn't he have a fairly serious injury at one point?
Sometimes players come up on the side track. Still not convinced he'll make it but his energy is proving really useful.
The problem is that - as Martinez argues in the Observer today - the reserve league is so woefully inadequate and poor at preparing players for the first time that you can never really tell who's ready and who's not.
Surely someone like Gardner would be better off on loan than playing in the reserves?
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Herd's workrate enables Petrov to push on and have a bigger impact on games....I think Stan is a much better player than many give him credit for, and hopefully we'll see more of it now.
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Herd's workrate enables Petrov to push on and have a bigger impact on games....I think Stan is a much better player than many give him credit for, and hopefully we'll see more of it now.
Agreed. Petrov is still a very decent Premier League midfielder, but he needs an engine beside him to be at his best. Playing alongside Delph he was just part of a midfield two who was constantly overrun by the opposition, and thus he looked poor.
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Herd's workrate enables Petrov to push on and have a bigger impact on games....I think Stan is a much better player than many give him credit for, and hopefully we'll see more of it now.
This is the first time Petrov has been played in a more forward role. He impressed me yesterday.
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Didn't he have a fairly serious injury at one point?
Sometimes players come up on the side track. Still not convinced he'll make it but his energy is proving really useful.
The problem is that - as Martinez argues in the Observer today - the reserve league is so woefully inadequate and poor at preparing players for the first time that you can never really tell who's ready and who's not.
Surely someone like Gardner would be better off on loan than playing in the reserves?
Gardener is missing a lot of reserve games but playing in the Nextgen competition and also England U21's. He will not go on loan whilst they're still in Nextgen.
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Didn't he have a fairly serious injury at one point?
Sometimes players come up on the side track. Still not convinced he'll make it but his energy is proving really useful.
The problem is that - as Martinez argues in the Observer today - the reserve league is so woefully inadequate and poor at preparing players for the first time that you can never really tell who's ready and who's not.
Surely someone like Gardner would be better off on loan than playing in the reserves?
I would say he HAS made it Matt.
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What, like Hogg last year?
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I think it's a bit early to say he's made it. I'm sure a lot of us thought Luke Moore, Albrighton, Clark etc had made it. He's looked good in a few games but I think we should be wary of going too overboard as we have done in the past.
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Petrov is a new player in the more advanced role. He was under utilised by MON and Houllier. We needed an anchorman behind Petrov over the years.
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I think the midfield would still look better with a third midfielder in place of Heskey.
watching the match yesterday Heskey takes up some great positions but lacks the instinctive ball control and composure of a real midfielder.
That would give us a strong base for the team - Petrov and Jenas/Bannan pulling the strings with Herd doing a lot of the grunt work. A further benefit would be that it would free up Nzogbia to do what he is best at, whereas at the moment I fear he is being asked to track back too much.
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I think the midfield would still look better with a third midfielder in place of Heskey.
watching the match yesterday Heskey takes up some great positions but lacks the instinctive ball control and composure of a real midfielder.
That would give us a strong base for the team - Petrov and Jenas/Bannan pulling the strings with Herd doing a lot of the grunt work. A further benefit would be that it would free up Nzogbia to do what he is best at, whereas at the moment I fear he is being asked to track back too much.
You're absolutely spot on with this comment, Dante (you inferno, you!).
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I think the midfield would still look better with a third midfielder in place of Heskey.
watching the match yesterday Heskey takes up some great positions but lacks the instinctive ball control and composure of a real midfielder.
That would give us a strong base for the team - Petrov and Jenas/Bannan pulling the strings with Herd doing a lot of the grunt work. A further benefit would be that it would free up Nzogbia to do what he is best at, whereas at the moment I fear he is being asked to track back too much.
That's what I'm hoping for, too; a midfield of Petrov, Jenas and Delph/Herd seems to have a good balance of energy, strength and guile which we have lacked for a while. Of course, it depends on Jenas being up to scratch, but for waht it's worth I think he is. Even in the brief glimpse yesterday, he seemed to display a certain compsosure and rannge of passing that we don't always see at Villa.
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I do think a midfield of Herd, Jenas or Petrov , and Bannan or Ireland is our best.
You have a nice balance then of an defensive , no nonsense midfielder in Herd, the footballing, all round experienced midfielder in Jenas or Petrov, and the more creative/attacking but less defensive midfielder of Bannan or Ireland.
With Bent, Gabby and N'zog up front, you need a creative midfielder who can release them with a pass, and Bannan and Ireland can do that.
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Agreed. It's just so obvious to me that 433 would be our best formation, with gabby, bent and n'zogbia when he hits form, up front.
I also agree you need a combination of running, tackling, creativity and running into the box, to make that work.
I'd have thought petrov as a sort of midfield libero, with jenas (delph in reserve) doing the up and down
role and bannan (Ireland) as the creative player, would be the best bet. I still hope that's the case.
But as mcleish has recognised, the presence and dependability of heskey in that number 10 role is often the safer bet in a mediocre team.
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Herd to pull out of Australian squad (http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1080241/Herd-to-pull-out-of-Socceroos-squad)
Don't know how/why there are quotes from his dad. I recall reading that McLeish was counseling him to choose Scotland. Unsurprising; two matches in four days in the Asian heat would take it out of you.
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Herd to pull out of Australian squad (http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1080241/Herd-to-pull-out-of-Socceroos-squad)
Don't know how/why there are quotes from his dad. I recall reading that McLeish was counseling him to choose Scotland. Unsurprising; two matches in four days in the Asian heat would take it out of you.
Also, with Jenas not being eligible against Spppurrrrrs, I'm sure the club will have wanted Herd to be available and fit for a tough next game.
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If Herd keeps on performing in this manner than he could well see himself a first team regular. He releases a different type of Petrov to what we've seen over the years. I am impressed. I honestly didn't think he was going to make it, I'm going to have to stop calling him Chris Turd now, aren't I?
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I thought be played very well again on Saturday and also seemed to be more confident on the ball, which is a good sign. It'll be interesting to see how he does against Spurs, but from the Man Utd home game last season I don't think he'll be showing any fear!
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We had the partner for Petrov - Makoun and Reo Coker. Didn't try hard enough to keep them? or they had more ambition? Dunno?
This would be the same Makoun that has yet to start a game in Greece? It's looking unlikely they'll be taking us up on buying him for £3.5m come the summer.
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I see people are making NRC comparisons so I thought I'd add my thoughts. We all know NRC's strengths and it does look like Herd has similar energy levels and also has good ball winning ability. We also all knew what NRC's weaknesses were... While I don't necessarily think that Herd's technical attributes are a great improvement on NRC it does, to me at least, look like he at least knows his limitations a bit more, which is what I always thought held Nige back as a DM. If he can carry on like this I think he could be a good PL central midfielder.
I also agree with Dante and the others who say that Herd, Petrov and Jenas could be our strongest midfield three.
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We had the partner for Petrov - Makoun and Reo Coker. Didn't try hard enough to keep them? or they had more ambition? Dunno?
This would be the same Makoun that has yet to start a game in Greece? It's looking unlikely they'll be taking us up on buying him for £3.5m come the summer.
Great - if that means we get him back
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Herd to pull out of Australian squad (http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1080241/Herd-to-pull-out-of-Socceroos-squad)
Don't know how/why there are quotes from his dad. I recall reading that McLeish was counseling him to choose Scotland. Unsurprising; two matches in four days in the Asian heat would take it out of you.
I guess because his Dad is an ex-footballer? Is he is agent as well?
More eye-catching for me was the comment he inspired:
Damn, Herd is an awesome player.
I imagine the bloke hitting the town and partying it up hard after games and downing about 12 shots of grappa and scoring mint chicks on the dancefloor like Vale Rossi does in Roma!!
Every time he's on the ball it looks like he's in charge and dominating the pitch like the force india pit crew when Sutil comes in for a pit-stop with a totalled front wing!!
Next opportunity he gets he will play his best for the Aussies no doubt. And if he does i'll take him in my '92 Swift down lygon and rip up that handbrake in the wet and write it off into Brunettis Cafe!!!
So compared with a MotoGP rider, a Formula 1 pit crew and offered a spare seat in a car crash?
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Yes, that's one of the more bizarre comments I've seen for a while.
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so then, looks like we've found a little gem in Herd. Looks comfortable in a defensive midfield role. We're going to need to mould the team around the younger players like Herd, Bannan, Clark and Gardner over the next few years, let's hope they do well, as we'll obviously find the need to flog some of them for big bucks.