Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Vanilla on September 24, 2011, 12:01:04 PM
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Mcleish quoted in Daily Mirror on Sat 24th 'I accepted the challenge. I know a lot of other managers wouldn't have, and I think some didn't accept the challenge before i did'.
Why do we think other managers didn't want to come here, and would anyone else have been able to do any better considering the situation? He states that it's not an overnight job and losing Young and Downing were a big loss. That said, he knew those players would be leaving anyway, so can he use this as an excuse?
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I think the way the board have acted has showed why other managers didn't want to come here.
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Losing Young and Downing isn't an excuse, it's a reason. They were our two best players and we're now having to find a way to do without them, that takes time.
I assume if anyone turned down the opportunity it was that they did not want to work under the current financial restrictions.
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I accepted the challenge. Jesus, it wasn't hard to accept was it. Sitting in your apartment in Corsica, contemplating life in the Championship under possibly the worst owners since the Kumars, then an American billionaire rocks up to double your wages for a job with a Premier League side used to challenging for a top 6 place. Let me think.
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McLeish is lucky to have another job in the Premiership, especially at a club this size.
I see the excuses have already begun with AM.
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I accepted the challenge. Jesus, it wasn't hard to accept was it. Sitting in your apartment in Corsica, contemplating life in the Championship under possibly the worst owners since the Kumars, then an American billionaire rocks up to double your wages for a job with a Premier League side used to challenging for a top 6 place. Let me think.
True, these people need a reality check.
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I sense that too Iago. Those big boys made me do it Miss.
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I can see it from both sides. Obviously, the challenge is to work under an owner who is slamming on the spending brakes in a way which puts George Osbourne to shame. As Chris saud, losing Downing and Young is not an excuse, it is a symptom of the new financial reality.
And to think we thought we might get Ancelottii or Benitez!
The other side i can see too - it isn't much of a big decision when your managerial reputation is looking buggered, you've just been relegated for the second time in four years, you're facing working in the championship for an owner who is flirting with jail, and someone offers you a job at a much bigger club for much bigger money. You don't even have to move house.
The sad thing in all this is that the club has come to this after five years. I also think those who think we are takng a breather before having another go at it are misguided. They've made it pretty clear that this s the new reality, live within our means. Like Everton. I suspect we'll enjoy I about as much as Everton fans do, too.
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I accepted the challenge. Jesus, it wasn't hard to accept was it. Sitting in your apartment in Corsica, contemplating life in the Championship under possibly the worst owners since the Kumars, then an American billionaire rocks up to double your wages for a job with a Premier League side used to challenging for a top 6 place. Let me think.
I bet it wasn't as easy a decision as you think: An American billionaire who's not prepared to spend anything at the moment, and tells him that he'll have to "make do and mend"?
The utter chaos following O'Neill's bailing and continuing through Houllier's reign which went on for most of the season won't have escaped his attention either and I think the last sentence should read "...a Premier League side that used to be challenging for a top 6 place."
I agree the wages must have been some incentive, but I genuinely believe he was/is interested in the challenge. Whether he's bitten off more than he can chew is another matter, but I admire his bravery.
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It's a definatley a challenge for him though, in more ways than one and although i did'nt think he should have been considered, fair play to him for having a crack at it. Martinez did'nt have the balls for it, he's got the comfort knowing he'd still have a job even if he took Wigan down.
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Yeah. He had to think about it all the time Mrs McLeish was fetching an extra coffee cup.
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I know what you mean, Clampy, and from that side, fair play to him and I wish him luck (obviously).
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Yeah. He had to think about it all the time Mrs McLeish was fetching an extra coffee cup.
McLeish doesn't strike me as a coffee man. I reckon he's a traditional, "builders tea" man, really milky with three sugars.
In one of those pint mugs with "you don't have to be mad to work here, BUT IT HELPS" written on it.
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So even by his own admission he was the only one silly enough to take it. It really is laughable now looking back at threads linking us to Ancelotti and no wonder Hughes was never in the running, they didn't tap AM up he was way down the list and desperate enough. What a way to run a football club.
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It's a definatley a challenge for him though, in more ways than one and although i did'nt think he should have been considered, fair play to him for having a crack at it. Martinez did'nt have the balls for it, he's got the comfort knowing he'd still have a job even if he took Wigan down.
I think there is more to Martinez than not having the balls. It seems he has a real affection for Wigan, I wrote this a few months ago.
"I'm currently reading Northern Soul which is about Wigan and their first season in the top flight. It's quite interesting, and had these snippets which may be of interest/relevance to us.
As well as covering that season, there are a few flashbacks, one of which was about when Wigan signed the 3 Spaniards and the author spoke to Martinez who was playing for Swansea at the time (2006) and he said this. "The chairman said he had a five-year plan to get into the Premiership, in the end it took ten and my only regret was that I never got the chance to play for them when they got there. That would have been special. To me Wigan Athletic will always be my club, always be in my heart".
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I`ve said it before that he must have balls the size of space hoppers to come across the city, however he must have taken all of 3 seconds to decide on "accepting the challenge"!
considering he was 3rd or possibly 4th choice (Benitez, Martinez and McLarren), I think the board just got desperate and wanted anyone who would take it under sh!tty budget conditions :'(
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I accepted the challenge. Jesus, it wasn't hard to accept was it. Sitting in your apartment in Corsica, contemplating life in the Championship under possibly the worst owners since the Kumars, then an American billionaire rocks up to double your wages for a job with a Premier League side used to challenging for a top 6 place. Let me think.
I bet it wasn't as easy a decision as you think: An American billionaire who's not prepared to spend anything at the moment, and tells him that he'll have to "make do and mend"?
The utter chaos following O'Neill's bailing and continuing through Houllier's reign which went on for most of the season won't have escaped his attention either and I think the last sentence should read "...a Premier League side that used to be challenging for a top 6 place."
I agree the wages must have been some incentive, but I genuinely believe he was/is interested in the challenge. Whether he's bitten off more than he can chew is another matter, but I admire his bravery.
It's all relative though isn't it. I mean, he knows he will be paid off even if he fails, so it isn't a risk in the slightest really. Compare my own situation, I have taken a bigger risk by moving into a job at work managing a load of Engineers, something I haven't got the slightest clue about until I start work, but it aids my development at work - if I fail, I won't be so lucky as to expect a £1m golden handshake.
Even accounting for the fact that we lost prized assets, in the first 11 there is still a decent side that is underperforming and has been since August 2010.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
I will continue to dig at him until he proves to me he is the best candidate for the job of being manager of my football club. It's as if our owners actually revel in dishing out the most amount of compensation in as short a period of time as possible.
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Bearing in mind what the Villa fans have been through since O'Neill flounced out I think McLeish is being given - by the level headed posters on here - a very decent opportunity to prove himself.
Whether or not you think he is being sniped at depends on whether you think he has plans to ease our pain (passing, attractive, occasionally winning, frequently entertaining football) or whether you think his appointment was a leap in the dark.
I am in the latter faction and as such reserve the right to mull over where it has all gone so wrong.
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We miss Ashley Young so much. More than just his obvious quality in the final third, but we have no leader, no one putting pressure on the ball and no one demanding the ball.
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And to think we thought we might get Ancelottii or Benitez!
Did "we" really think that? I know I certainly didn't. I don't see why anyone would've expected anyone particularly better, or more high profile, than who we ended up with.
Why, at the time of searching, would a high profile manager want to manage Villa?
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
I will continue to dig at him...
Of course you will, saying the same things over and over again.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
I will continue to dig at him...
Of course you will, saying the same things over and over again.
Similar to you then.
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I make no apology for wanting the best possible candidate to bring success to my club - it is a shame as will be proved over time and once again that Alex McLeish is not that candidate.
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i reckon 95% of managers in the footbal league would have accepted the Villa job,
i dont agree with all this no one wanted to come, there were one or two high profile managers who didnt fancy the financial constraints, fair enough, but to say we were desperate and the only chap willing to take us on was Mcliesh is rubbish.
then there was Martinez,
i really wanted him, he turned us down, i still dont think we know truly what happened there,
i get the feeling that he didnt think we were so serious, he might have though we were just canvessing to interview him along with others, and maybe didnt think he would get the chance in the end, i dont know, but he is working within worse constraints at Wigan,
either way Dave Whelan played a blinder, backed everyone into a very public corner and we didnt get the our man.
i personaly believe, that if we had met him secretly and offered Martinez the job, not just an interview for the job, he would have come to us,
i also think he might well regret the decision he made, especially when he saw Mcliesh turning up and maybe realised he could have had the job, but i'm only summising, i have no ITK just my own imagination !
but we could have had the pick of many managers if Mcliesh was the bench mark,
if Plymouth can get a manager in Peter Ried [now sacked] who lets face it would be on par with Mcliesh, then we would have no trouble,
obviously the board did struggled to land a top class manager, so we panicked and went for Mcliesh, i dont think we had to, but they have made there decision now, i think they got it wrong, but i certainly dont believe he was the only one willing to take up the challenge
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I make no apology for wanting the best possible candidate to bring success to my club - it is a shame as will be proved over time and once again that Alex McLeish is not that candidate.
As I said, he isn't going to be given a chance as you've already made up your mind. So what happens is everything he says or does is criticised and twisted to turn it into something negative because you're desperate to be "proved" right.
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I too CBBB was very sceptical about the big name managers we were linked with. However I did believe that Randy Lerner would use his financial muscle to prise somebody loose from an otherwise secure job. I hoped Kenwright would be made an offer he could not refuse and we would get Moyes or Lambert or their foreign equivalent. In this day and age every man has his price and I hoped that we were not shopping in the bargain basement.
With the compensation we paid to both Houllier and Small Heath, that sum of money applied to the problem when O'Neill went would have got us one manager of some quality to move on from the O'Neill years seamlessly.
Whichever way you cut it it is not Houllier's fault nor McLeish's it is the fault of the board being blown away by O'Neill's actions.
For me the Hanged Man card was when Lerner himself flew to Corsica to secure the deal because to me the writing was on the wall that he did not trust his executives not to go on making fools of themselves and the club.
I made the rather frivolous comparison at the time with being with your twelve year old daughter buying back to school shoes. Eventually you say black, lace up, flat heels, size five, point to such a pair and say wrap them up.
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So the owner wanting to talk to a candidate for a senior appointment in the organisation prior to offering him the job is a bad thing. That's a unique take on things.
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McLeish is lucky to have another job in the Premiership, especially at a club this size.
I see the excuses have already begun with AM.
A quote from an earlier post by Chris Smith:
"Losing Young and Downing isn't an excuse, it's a reason. They were our two best players and we're now having to find a way to do without them, that takes time."
I can't recall him making any excuse either since he took the job.
So what excuses are you on about?
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I can see it from both sides. Obviously, the challenge is to work under an owner who is slamming on the spending brakes in a way which puts George Osbourne to shame. As Chris saud, losing Downing and Young is not an excuse, it is a symptom of the new financial reality.
And to think we thought we might get Ancelottii or Benitez!
The other side i can see too - it isn't much of a big decision when your managerial reputation is looking buggered, you've just been relegated for the second time in four years, you're facing working in the championship for an owner who is flirting with jail, and someone offers you a job at a much bigger club for much bigger money. You don't even have to move house.
The sad thing in all this is that the club has come to this after five years. I also think those who think we are takng a breather before having another go at it are misguided. They've made it pretty clear that this s the new reality, live within our means. Like Everton. I suspect we'll enjoy I about as much as Everton fans do, too.
As ever your view is pretty much the same as mine. I in particular agree strongly with the last paragraph.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
Totally agree Chris,
If we'd have made this start under any other manager it wouldn't be a problem.
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I make no apology for wanting the best possible candidate to bring success to my club - it is a shame as will be proved over time and once again that Alex McLeish is not that candidate.
If you actually got behind the bloke and supported him he just might prove all you doubters wrong.
You have your opinion, kippax, and I respect it, but, AMcL is our manager now and deserves to be supported in his role.
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i reckon 95% of managers in the footbal league would have accepted the Villa job,
i dont agree with all this no one wanted to come, there were one or two high profile managers who didnt fancy the financial constraints, fair enough, but to say we were desperate and the only chap willing to take us on was Mcliesh is rubbish.
then there was Martinez,
i really wanted him, he turned us down, i still dont think we know truly what happened there,
i get the feeling that he didnt think we were so serious, he might have though we were just canvessing to interview him along with others, and maybe didnt think he would get the chance in the end, i dont know, but he is working within worse constraints at Wigan,
either way Dave Whelan played a blinder, backed everyone into a very public corner and we didnt get the our man.
i personaly believe, that if we had met him secretly and offered Martinez the job, not just an interview for the job, he would have come to us,
i also think he might well regret the decision he made, especially when he saw Mcliesh turning up and maybe realised he could have had the job, but i'm only summising, i have no ITK just my own imagination !
but we could have had the pick of many managers if Mcliesh was the bench mark,
if Plymouth can get a manager in Peter Ried [now sacked] who lets face it would be on par with Mcliesh, then we would have no trouble,
obviously the board did struggled to land a top class manager, so we panicked and went for Mcliesh, i dont think we had to, but they have made there decision now, i think they got it wrong, but i certainly dont believe he was the only one willing to take up the challenge
And Alex McLeish would come high up on that 95% list. Can't believe you've just compared Peter Reid to McLeish. Remind me again, what has Peter Reid won? He did a shit job at Plymouth (and every other club he's managed) but just because he contributed money to them (fair play to him), doesn't make him any good. As far as I'm aware, McLeish has won trophies at his last two clubs.
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And nearly achieved the minor miracle of getting Scotland to a major tournament.
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That is not what I said Chris. We all know Randy Lerner to be a very private person. There was no evidence whatsoever that contacts (if any) there had been with Hughes, FSW, Martinez, Jol or Moyes. All we know is that we had suffered the humiliation of being rejected for reason or reasons unknown. As soon as Randy Lerner got in his plane and flew to Corsica it was quite clear that the owner was going to cut through the crap and get a manager.
In a well run business he would not have had to do that. That is my opinion.
As for wanting McLeish to fail that is a total fabrication by his cheer leaders. I do not think he will fail because his job description is pitched so low. He will save us from relegation as the megabucks contacts unwind and we will achieve financial sustainability. I believe that is what he has been hired to do and he will do it. Randy Lerner sees the gathering hurricane heading for Wall Street and wants the hatches battening down. It's his club so he does what he wants.
I only have a lifetime invested in the club and I want the future to be Barry Bannan not Emile Heskey and if we are to scrap it out at the bottom of the Premiership I would sooner see us running and passing and chasing with youth and ambition than hoofing our way into the Championship.
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McLeish is lucky to have another job in the Premiership, especially at a club this size.
I see the excuses have already begun with AM.
A quote from an earlier post by Chris Smith:
"Losing Young and Downing isn't an excuse, it's a reason. They were our two best players and we're now having to find a way to do without them, that takes time."
I can't recall him making any excuse either since he took the job.
So what excuses are you on about?
McLeish alludes to the wage bill, once again, after a defeat against Bolton.
I do not want to hear about the wage bill every week; I am more concerned with the product on the pitch and so should the manager of our great club. We need to do better or more fans will stay away from VP.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
You're so disappointed by these threads, you throw in terms like "sniping" and "get a few digs in" plus a classic "some of you.." line, all guaranteed to keep the argument going.
You love it, Chris.
*wink*
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It's no challenge compared to what Moyes has done for the last few years. Even Pardew is doing a good job atm despite losing so many best players this year.
The best we can hope for under McLeish is staying in the Premier League. 17th would seem accomplishment in his eyes no doubt and probably the board's as well because it's another season where they can get their greedy hands on the Premier League money.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
Totally agree Chris,
If we'd have made this start under any other manager it wouldn't be a problem.
Really?
Playing unfathomably shite, negative football against very average teams, then handed a footballing lesson by Bolton reserves wouldn't have been a problem?
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Have I misunderstood something?
I think Mcleish means not many would have accepted the challenge of moving to your current clubs most bitter rivals especially with both clubs in utter turmoil.
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I can see it from both sides. Obviously, the challenge is to work under an owner who is slamming on the spending brakes in a way which puts George Osbourne to shame. As Chris saud, losing Downing and Young is not an excuse, it is a symptom of the new financial reality.
And to think we thought we might get Ancelottii or Benitez!
The other side i can see too - it isn't much of a big decision when your managerial reputation is looking buggered, you've just been relegated for the second time in four years, you're facing working in the championship for an owner who is flirting with jail, and someone offers you a job at a much bigger club for much bigger money. You don't even have to move house.
The sad thing in all this is that the club has come to this after five years. I also think those who think we are takng a breather before having another go at it are misguided. They've made it pretty clear that this s the new reality, live within our means. Like Everton. I suspect we'll enjoy I about as much as Everton fans do, too.
Fair cop, Paulie.
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McLeish just isn't going to be given a chance by some of you is he? Every day we see these sniping little threads. There's nothing wrong with his comments but some of you justc an't resist taking the opportunity to get a few digs in.
Totally agree Chris,
If we'd have made this start under any other manager it wouldn't be a problem.
Really?
Playing unfathomably shite, negative football against very average teams, then handed a footballing lesson by Bolton reserves wouldn't have been a problem?
Unfathomably shite, negative football - seriously?
Why is everything exaggerated so wildly these days? Why the need for such melodramatic language?
This is what often happens when a new manager comes in. He doesn't know the players, they don't know him so there is a period of readjustment. On top of that we have lost the best two players who were the core of the team last season.
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they didn't tap AM up
eh? so Villa just decided to gift Blues a couple of million.
McLeish will not fail, because the ambition has been set so low. In the chairmans eyes he is already a success, for cutting the wage bill, and playing staff.
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they didn't tap AM up
eh? so Villa just decided to gift Blues a couple of million.
McLeish will not fail, because the ambition has been set so low. In the chairmans eyes he is already a success, for cutting the wage bill, and playing staff.
Bang on! We have the 'reduced for quick sale' sign out!
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they didn't tap AM up
eh? so Villa just decided to gift Blues a couple of million.
McLeish will not fail, because the ambition has been set so low. In the chairmans eyes he is already a success, for cutting the wage bill, and playing staff.
Bang on! We have the 'reduced for quick sale' sign out!
BOGOF
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I make no apology for wanting the best possible candidate to bring success to my club - it is a shame as will be proved over time and once again that Alex McLeish is not that candidate.
As I said, he isn't going to be given a chance as you've already made up your mind. So what happens is everything he says or does is criticised and twisted to turn it into something negative because you're desperate to be "proved" right.
Chris that is just nonsense - if he wins us the Carling Cup or gets us into Europe I will change my mind about him as I will consider that success, I just don't think it's going to happen, I simply don't think he was the best candidate for the role.
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So, given the conditions he's been asked to work under, who would have been a better candidate? Who of the available men would achieve more with the strict financial controls now in place?
Don't say Moyes, he made it perfectly clear that he wasn't available.
At the moment talk of Europe is delusional, we're a 7th at best this season.
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So, given the conditions he's been asked to work under, who would have been a better candidate? Who of the available men would achieve more with the strict financial controls now in place?
Don't say Moyes, he made it perfectly clear that he wasn't available.
At the moment talk of Europe is delusional, we're a 7th at best this season.
7th even a possibility?
A pint of whatever you are drinking please Chris.
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I'd rather have taken a punt on a young, up and coming manager, to be honest. And before you ask why i wasn't keen on Martinez, it's because at that point, we didn't know just how tight the money would be.
Also, wasn't Europa League winning manager Sanchez Flores quoted as saying he wanted the job, despite knowing he'd have no money and need to make cuts?
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I think we're probably a mid table side (strong defence and a top striker) and 7th is the top of mid table in my opinion. So it's a possibility.
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So, given the conditions he's been asked to work under, who would have been a better candidate? Who of the available men would achieve more with the strict financial controls now in place?
Don't say Moyes, he made it perfectly clear that he wasn't available.
At the moment talk of Europe is delusional, we're a 7th at best this season.
I don't know who was available but who appeared to be available and better than McLeish were;
Mark Hughes
Sam Allardyce
Slaven Bilic
Steve McLaren
Alan Curbishley
Chris Hughton
And, if £2.5m was the compo available I would have gone after either Ian Holloway, Simon Grayson or indeed Paul Lambert (the new MO'N). I would however draw the line at Phil Brown.
Of course, you appear to be suggesting that Alex McLeish was available, he was in fact contracted to another club so technically wasn't.
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I'd rather have taken a punt on a young, up and coming manager, to be honest. And before you ask why i wasn't keen on Martinez, it's because at that point, we didn't know just how tight the money would be.
Also, wasn't Europa League winning manager Sanchez Flores quoted as saying he wanted the job, despite knowing he'd have no money and need to make cuts?
I'm not aware of those quotes but he'd have been as much of a gamble as McLeish through having no English experience, another Ramos potentially.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
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I'd rather have taken a punt on a young, up and coming manager, to be honest. And before you ask why i wasn't keen on Martinez, it's because at that point, we didn't know just how tight the money would be.
Also, wasn't Europa League winning manager Sanchez Flores quoted as saying he wanted the job, despite knowing he'd have no money and need to make cuts?
I'm not aware of those quotes but he'd have been as much of a gamble as McLeish through having no English experience, another Ramos potentially.
That's what I don't understand.
Why did we set out PL experience as such a crucial factor for our manager? Why limit ourselves like that? Why be so unimaginative? We used the same criteria last year, and look how that turned out. It's as if we learned nothing.
True, Flores may have turned out to be another Ramos, but he may not have. AM actually had a poor record in the Premier League no "might have" involved there.
They've also - like it or not, and although I personally don't give a flying one - made an appointment which was about as divisive as it gets, just when we needed someone to pull the club together and treat last season as a blip rather than the start of a downward curve. It really was the last thing we needed.
I wish the bloke luck and, despite being a bit concerned we're starting to see his Blues style of play emerging already, will be giving him far more time than he's had so far, at the very least, but I can not think of a single compelling reason they'd have given him the job beyond him being the only person willing to accept the conditions they set out.
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I too believe that Hughton and Allardyce would have been better options than Mcleish, and I have no particular liking for either.
The style of play that Allardyce would have brought would have got criticism, but wouldn't have been any worse than Mcleish's.
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I'd rather have taken a punt on a young, up and coming manager, to be honest. And before you ask why i wasn't keen on Martinez, it's because at that point, we didn't know just how tight the money would be.
Also, wasn't Europa League winning manager Sanchez Flores quoted as saying he wanted the job, despite knowing he'd have no money and need to make cuts?
I'm not aware of those quotes but he'd have been as much of a gamble as McLeish through having no English experience, another Ramos potentially.
It was a rumour that went around, probably his agent putting a few feelers out though the media but his timing was poor as the door was about to close. He also expected to be given money to spend, some of it on English lessons. He's still looking for a job despite his success with A Madrid and from what I remember of him during his time at Benfica, he may have to wait a bit longer.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
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I too believe that Hughton and Allardyce would have been better options than Mcleish, and I have no particular liking for either.
The style of play that Allardyce would have brought would have got criticism, but wouldn't have been any worse than Mcleish's.
Just out of interest, how do you think MON would get on if he was still manager of the Villa?
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
It's already an apples and pears argument, McLeish had the likes of Johnson, Dann, Foster, Bowyer, Ferguson, even Gardner amongst others, Hughton has both hands tied behind his back there let alone one. To me it only adds even more weight to the argument that McLeish is poor given those players he had.
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Here are the references to Sanchez Flores in the summer.
Aston Villa turned down the chance to install former Valencia, Benfica and Atletico Madrid coach Quique Sanchez Flores as manager.
But the Spaniard remains ready to answer the call if a fan backlash means Villa ditch their move to land Alex McLeish.
Sanchez Flores, who resigned from Atletico at the end of the season following a major fall-out with star striker Diego Forlan, was lined up as a managerial team with Rafa Benitez's former Liverpool assistant, Pako Ayestaran.
The 46-year-old, who took Valencia to the last eight of the Champions League in 2007 and led Atletico to their 2010 Europa League Final victory over Fulham and last season's European Super Cup win over Inter Milan, was approached by intermediaries last week.
Sanchez Flores told the agents involved he would jump at the opportunity, especially if he could lean on Ayestaran's knowledge of the Premier League.
Ayestaran, who also worked alongside Benitez at Valencia, fell out with his long-term friend in 2008 when he went to Benfica, then returned to Valencia as assistant boss two years later.
Sanchez Flores, who has a decent command of English but accepts he would have to go on a crash-course if he got the Villa job, has studied the playing staff he would be inheriting from Gerard Houllier.
Despite the imminent loss of Ashley Young and the likely departure of Stewart Downing, Sanchez Flores believes he would only need to make "two or three changes" to produce a squad that would achieve a top six position in his first season in charge.
A friend said: "Quique was very optimistic about achieving his targets and felt he was extremely confident of attracting top La Liga stars to join him at Villa."
Those players could have included rejuvenated former Arsenal striker Jose Antonio Reyes, who revelled under Sanchez Flores at both Benfica and Atletico.
Despite Sanchez Flores' interest and his reputation as a persuasive and intelligent technical coach, Villa owner Randy Lerner switched targets to McLeish, sparking a hugely negative response among the Villa supporters.
Sanchez Flores is still prepared to listen if fan power forces Villa to come calling again.
The friend added: "Quique wants the job and wants to come to England.
"He feels that he and Pako would make a really good team at a club with great potential and is not fussed about where he will have been on their initial preference list."
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-news-Quique-Sanchez-Flores-who-lead-Atletico-Madrid-to-Europa-League-triumph-2010-wants-job-if-fan-anger-keeps-Alex-McLeish-out-article747872.html#ixzz1YtLfyQT2
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
So you would rather have McLeish who has 2 Premier League Relegations than Big Sam who at least knows how to keep clubs in the top flight? Is that what you're saying? Should be interesting to see.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
It's already an apples and pears argument, McLeish had the likes of Johnson, Dann, Foster, Bowyer, Ferguson, even Gardner amongst others, Hughton has both hands tied behind his back there let alone one. To me it only adds even more weight to the argument that McLeish is poor given those players he had.
Sorry, but this 'anyone but McLeish' just suggests that it's more about him having managed the Noses that you'd mention the likes of Hughton. As I said earlier, you're just not prepared to give him a chance.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
So you would rather have McLeish who has 2 Premier League Relegations than Big Sam who at least knows how to keep clubs in the top flight? Is that what you're saying? Should be interesting to see.
i would rather have David O'leary than Big Sam
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I too believe that Hughton and Allardyce would have been better options than Mcleish, and I have no particular liking for either.
The style of play that Allardyce would have brought would have got criticism, but wouldn't have been any worse than Mcleish's.
Just out of interest, how do you think MON would get on if he was still manager of the Villa?
Well I believe we would have had a better season last year, and we certainly wouldn't be getting embarrassed by Bolton reserves this season.
The style of play would be similar, but we'd show more attacking intent.
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I don't know who was available but who appeared to be available and better than McLeish were;
Mark Hughes
Sam Allardyce
Slaven Bilic
Steve McLaren
Alan Curbishley
Chris Hughton
And, if £2.5m was the compo available I would have gone after either Ian Holloway, Simon Grayson or indeed Paul Lambert (the new MO'N). I would however draw the line at Phil Brown.
Of course, you appear to be suggesting that Alex McLeish was available, he was in fact contracted to another club so technically wasn't.
And you could probably add Neil Warnock to that list....
... Which shows how low I rate McLeish.
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I too believe that Hughton and Allardyce would have been better options than Mcleish, and I have no particular liking for either.
The style of play that Allardyce would have brought would have got criticism, but wouldn't have been any worse than Mcleish's.
Just out of interest, how do you think MON would get on if he was still manager of the Villa?
Well I believe we would have had a better season last year, and we certainly wouldn't be getting embarrassed by Bolton reserves this season.
The style of play would be similar, but we'd show more attacking intent.
Attacking intent? What do you call playing four strikers? I agree with you though, there's no great difference between the two. McLeish would probably come out on top due to his coaching staff although I've yet to see anybody slagging off Sid for the lack of ball control from some of our players, though I won't hold my breath on that one, not after reading some of the posts on here and other Villa sites.
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Here are the references to Sanchez Flores in the summer.
Aston Villa turned down the chance to install former Valencia, Benfica and Atletico Madrid coach Quique Sanchez Flores as manager.
But the Spaniard remains ready to answer the call if a fan backlash means Villa ditch their move to land Alex McLeish.
Sanchez Flores, who resigned from Atletico at the end of the season following a major fall-out with star striker Diego Forlan, was lined up as a managerial team with Rafa Benitez's former Liverpool assistant, Pako Ayestaran.
The 46-year-old, who took Valencia to the last eight of the Champions League in 2007 and led Atletico to their 2010 Europa League Final victory over Fulham and last season's European Super Cup win over Inter Milan, was approached by intermediaries last week.
Sanchez Flores told the agents involved he would jump at the opportunity, especially if he could lean on Ayestaran's knowledge of the Premier League.
Ayestaran, who also worked alongside Benitez at Valencia, fell out with his long-term friend in 2008 when he went to Benfica, then returned to Valencia as assistant boss two years later.
Sanchez Flores, who has a decent command of English but accepts he would have to go on a crash-course if he got the Villa job, has studied the playing staff he would be inheriting from Gerard Houllier.
Despite the imminent loss of Ashley Young and the likely departure of Stewart Downing, Sanchez Flores believes he would only need to make "two or three changes" to produce a squad that would achieve a top six position in his first season in charge.
A friend said: "Quique was very optimistic about achieving his targets and felt he was extremely confident of attracting top La Liga stars to join him at Villa."
Those players could have included rejuvenated former Arsenal striker Jose Antonio Reyes, who revelled under Sanchez Flores at both Benfica and Atletico.
Despite Sanchez Flores' interest and his reputation as a persuasive and intelligent technical coach, Villa owner Randy Lerner switched targets to McLeish, sparking a hugely negative response among the Villa supporters.
Sanchez Flores is still prepared to listen if fan power forces Villa to come calling again.
The friend added: "Quique wants the job and wants to come to England.
"He feels that he and Pako would make a really good team at a club with great potential and is not fussed about where he will have been on their initial preference list."
Read more: http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Aston-Villa-news-Quique-Sanchez-Flores-who-lead-Atletico-Madrid-to-Europa-League-triumph-2010-wants-job-if-fan-anger-keeps-Alex-McLeish-out-article747872.html#ixzz1YtLfyQT2
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Amazing if any truth in it! Doubt it will happen this season, and doubt unless Randy's fortunes pick up quickly but it does revive hopes of glory again before I expire.
The dream would be back on if it did transpire rather than the 'hide behind the sofa' mentality we have presently.
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Curbishley, Hughton, Allardyce - I now realise I've fallen for one of your spoofs. Well done, you really had me going there.
Hughton was doing a fantastic job at Newcastle with no money, you cannot judge him with what is going on down at that shower, Allardyce has a better track record in the Premier League than Alex McLeish, if that is how we are judging things and I don't see that we should base it on any other criteria.
So you judge McLeish on what happened at the Noses but not Chris '1-1 at home to Barnsley' Hughton, not very logical is it. Allardyce is a twat and would have signed El Hadji Diouf.
It's already an apples and pears argument, McLeish had the likes of Johnson, Dann, Foster, Bowyer, Ferguson, even Gardner amongst others, Hughton has both hands tied behind his back there let alone one. To me it only adds even more weight to the argument that McLeish is poor given those players he had.
Sorry, but this 'anyone but McLeish' just suggests that it's more about him having managed the Noses that you'd mention the likes of Hughton. As I said earlier, you're just not prepared to give him a chance.
The sign of someone not trying to emphasise their points in an effective manner is to resort to the 'he was a blue nose' argument. It has nothing to do with it, although clearly from a divisive perspective it certainly didn't help. For the record I would have had McLeish ahead of;
Phil Brown
Alan Pardew
Steve Bruce
Graham Taylor Mark III
Mick McCarthy (just)
Roberto Di Matteo (just)
Graham Turner
Dave Bassett
Howard Wilkinson
Sergio Ramos
Christian Gross
One other name I forgot to mention of the availables was Martin Jol.
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It`s certainly a case of be careful what you wish for!
I my opinion AM is a poor manager based more on his style of football rather than what he has achieved in his managerial career
BUT the board want stability at a cut price and if we go on a cup run that will be a bonus (1 down 1 to go)
AM won`t be given much of a chance by fans because of his past and also his record (or lack of it) and as fans we always want the best for our club - even if it`s unrealistic
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Explain Hughton. Getting Newcastle promoted was a piece of piss given the players they had, a much easier job than getting Blues up.
Everyone is so one eyed about McLeish's record, yes they went down last season but they also won a cup and had their best ever PL finish the season before. He's also got decent achievements from his time in Scotland and not just with Rangers. So it's a mixed record, not the unmitigated disaster that is being suggested. He's also, seemingly, a thoroughly decent and likeable man.
He wasn't my first choice, far from it, but now he's here he's got my backing and I'm not going to undermine him and therefore the club by bitching and whinging about it every 5 minutes.
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McLeish doesn't deserve a chance. He's gonna take us down. The writing is on the wall.
First 6 games 2010/2011 and 2011/2012:
Blues: 1 win 4 draws 1 lost (one was against a top 6 team)
Villa: 1 win 4 draws ? lost (QPR will most likely win, we've played no top 6 teams)
Right now McLeish has a win rate of below 30%. That's not good enough for top 10 and we've played no serious team yet (apart from probably Everton). It's very worrying. People may excuse because we've sold our best players, but Pardew has had it even worse and look at how well he's doing.
Now look at the football performance. Exactly the same as it was at Blues despite the fact we have better players in the squad. No excuse. Collins in every match is allowed to hoof the ball. If he wants us to improve, why does he allow Collins to do that in every match, especially when we have hardly any tall players to win the ball? That's all he knows. That's a losing tactic.
The only good point I can give him is he's good at spotting good goalkeepers. He isn't good at improving defences that much. If you look closely, it's Given who has saved us more than the defence. Our suppose good defender on form Dunne costed both goals in the Newcastle and Bolton match. McLeish hasn't improved the defenders, what he has done is change the tactics to support them and has sacrificed our possession and attacking mentality.
I would give anything to have a manager who at least has a C.V of being good in the Premier Leauge. We haven't got that with McLeish and I'll expect 99% of the fanbase to turn on him when we lose against QPR and don't pick up a victory against Wigan. That's when his win rate drops below 25% with Man City away next.
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I too believe that Hughton and Allardyce would have been better options than Mcleish, and I have no particular liking for either.
The style of play that Allardyce would have brought would have got criticism, but wouldn't have been any worse than Mcleish's.
Just out of interest, how do you think MON would get on if he was still manager of the Villa?
Well I believe we would have had a better season last year, and we certainly wouldn't be getting embarrassed by Bolton reserves this season.
The style of play would be similar, but we'd show more attacking intent.
Attacking intent? What do you call playing four strikers? I agree with you though, there's no great difference between the two. McLeish would probably come out on top due to his coaching staff although I've yet to see anybody slagging off Sid for the lack of ball control from some of our players, though I won't hold my breath on that one, not after reading some of the posts on here and other Villa sites.
4 strikers? Must have missed that game. Unless you mean when Heskey was playing as some sort of midfielder / set piece defensive specialist hybrid.
As for Mcleish coming out on top due to coaching staff, didn't he bring across two who assisted him in 2 relegations? MON, despite many faults, is just a superior manager to Mcleish imo.
Also I don't think that players who earn obscene amounts of money should need coaching in how to control a football.
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We do try to build from the back but, believe it or not, the opposition try to stop us. Teams know we have a small side so they press us high up the pitch which means that, at times, we are forced to play it long, it's not a deliberate tactic from McLeish but a result of what happens during a game.
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There's been loads of times where Collins has had plenty of space to pass the ball towards a midfield player, but instead just hoofs it resulting the ball to be lost 9 times out of 10. I wouldn't mind if it was the odd couple, but it happens so many time it's becoming sickening to watch. Giving the ball cheaply so many times is a horrible tactic. We was even doing it against Bolton reserves and that's unforgivable. If we carry on this like then every team will have more shots than us by miles. I dread to think when we give the big boys so many chances.
By now, it should have stopped if we was meant to be improving, but it seems it's never gonna stop because McLeish is very clueless and in time Chris you too will be frustrated when we see ourselves sitting at the bottom half of the table being outplayed by every team in the Premier League. There's a reason why he has 2 Premier League relegations. He isn't cut out for this level and I still can't believe the board hired him. It's gonna get very nasty around winter.
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There's been loads of times where Collins has had plenty of space to pass the ball towards a midfield player, but instead just hoofs it resulting the ball to be lost 9 times out of 10. I wouldn't mind if it was the odd couple, but it happens so many time it's becoming sickening to watch. Giving the ball cheaply so many times is a horrible tactic. We was even doing it against Bolton reserves and that's unforgivable. If we carry on this like then every team will have more shots than us by miles. I dread to think when we give the big boys so many chances.
By now, it should have stopped if we was meant to be improving, but it seems it's never gonna stop because McLeish is very clueless and in time Chris you too will be frustrated when we see ourselves sitting at the bottom half of the table being outplayed by every team in the Premier League. There's a reason why he has 2 Premier League relegations. He isn't cut out for this level and I still can't believe the board hired him. It's gonna get very nasty around winter.
if we win tomorow we go 5th in the league, it is no where near as bad as your making it
[ and i actually agree with a lot of what your saying re playing style]
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There are times in games when you are forced to play it long by pressure from the opposition, it's not a tactic. The other night was a perfect example, they pressed us and many times it went back from the midfield to the back 4 or the keeper and there was no option but to smash it upfield. It was a deliberate ploy as they knew they'd win 90% of balls in the air. When there's a ball on we'd pass it.
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This job is a huge stretch for McLeish. However it is astonishing that we (the Board) have lowered the expectation to such a degree that they think a Coach who has clearly failed in the Premier League is good enough for us. It is almost as depressing as DOL days.
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McLeish isn't a long ball manager. He has in the past been one who believes in not losing above everything else, with little attention paid towards attacking and actually winning.
Bolton was disappointing, but some of the reaction was over the top. Likewise, we still haven't lost a game in the league, so it is hardly desperate times.
I appreciate that he is currently getting to grips with the squad and settling in, and it will take time.
Whilst we've been about as entertaining to watch so far this season as Small Heath last season, there are enough mitigating factors given the fact he's not been here long to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The point at which I would turn against him would be the point at which it looks like he actually *wants* us to play that way.
Incidentally, whilst I think it is harsh and narrow minded of people to slaughter the manager five league games in, I think it equally narrow minded to reach for the "you're only saying that because of who he used to manage" script when people do moan about what they've seen so far.
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Agree with pretty much all of that Paulie, especially the last paragraph.
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There's been loads of times where Collins has had plenty of space to pass the ball towards a midfield player, but instead just hoofs it resulting the ball to be lost 9 times out of 10. I wouldn't mind if it was the odd couple, but it happens so many time it's becoming sickening to watch. Giving the ball cheaply so many times is a horrible tactic. We was even doing it against Bolton reserves and that's unforgivable. If we carry on this like then every team will have more shots than us by miles. I dread to think when we give the big boys so many chances.
By now, it should have stopped if we was meant to be improving, but it seems it's never gonna stop because McLeish is very clueless and in time Chris you too will be frustrated when we see ourselves sitting at the bottom half of the table being outplayed by every team in the Premier League. There's a reason why he has 2 Premier League relegations. He isn't cut out for this level and I still can't believe the board hired him. It's gonna get very nasty around winter.
if we win tomorow we go 5th in the league, it is no where near as bad as your making it
[ and i actually agree with a lot of what your saying re playing style]
To avoid the opportunistic snipping comment regarding McLiesh made earlier in the thread, think of it this way, we've won 1 in 5...Ok, we lose tomorrow and that's 1 in 6 against most of which has to be considered the Premierships easy options, the hard games will soon come and we have exited form the only competition we had any hope of.
You can't look at our present position but you can look at our form, we lose tomorrow that's 1 win in 6 that's the kind of form that gets a team relegated.
B'ham City where a difficult team to beat last season, as said by Alex Ferguson......They got plenty of great draws, and where are they now.
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In Europe? *winky*
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17th would seem accomplishment in his eyes no doubt and probably the board's as well because it's another season where they can get their greedy hands on the Premier League money.
Marvellous!
Randy the asset stripper. He's put no money whatsoever into our club has he? He's only in it for the Sky cash.
*Rolly eye and utter cockend emoticons*
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There's been loads of times where Collins has had plenty of space to pass the ball towards a midfield player, but instead just hoofs it resulting the ball to be lost 9 times out of 10.
most of these times yes collins is in lots of space, but no one else is in space to receive the pass because they haven't bothered to move. our movement on and off the ball is terrible- many of our players move towards the defenders marking them!. i have watched all the games this season, i went to bolton and i think we do try and pass it on the floor. mcleish was regularly out on the touch line screaming at them to move, to keep it on the deck. i dont agree with people going mcleish's tactics are just to hoof it, because from what i have seen they are not.
our problem is that however much mcleish wants us to pass and move, you need to work on it in training a lot for it to be effective in a game. you need all the players to be practice at passing technique, at movement. we had houllier who yes tried to implement it last year but went way over the top and pissed everyone off, and before that we had 4 years under MON where training was basically come in for a few hours and play a bit of 5 a side, and the tactics were to get the ball asap to ashley young. as a result a lot of the other players stagnated in terms of ability on the ball. they never had to take much responsibility to hold on to the ball, to pass and move. all they had to do was run around, throw their body in the way when defending and smash it out wide to the skill players when they had it. great when you have these skill players and they are on form, but its a total short term approach and one that ultimately limits you - hence why we could never break the top 4 despite many things going our way. as we saw too often when we came up against a decent side and ash was marked out the game, the other guys hadnt got a clue.
and now the skill players are gone we are seeing it again. other players are now having to take responsibility, but they seem so off the pace and out of practice in terms of keeping possession its untrue. at bolton i dont think we managed to keep it for more than 15 seconds. so many passes were overhit, underhit or miles wide of the intended target. in the rare event they were to a player, the ball was bobbling and difficult for the receiver to control. i look at our squad on paper, compare it to other teams and it still looks decent, better in a lot of cases. yet then i watch these other teams and see that they are able to keep the ball, to pass and move so much better than us. i saw the names in boltons midfield on tuesday, and thought they shouldnt really be better than ours- eagles, muamba, pratley and holden (who had just come back from 6 months out). yet they were far ahead of us in terms of keeping the ball, movement off the ball and of controlling the midfield.
i think we have some good players at the club still, and that with those guys we should be playing much better football than we are. i think a huge amount of our problems can be solved on the training pitch with work on technique, passing and movement. problem is im not sure mcleish is the guy to implement that work correctly. and given the supposed attitude of some of our players last season, im not convinced all the playing staff have the desire to put in the extra work necessary.
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Incidentally, whilst I think it is harsh and narrow minded of people to slaughter the manager five league games in, I think it equally narrow minded to reach for the "you're only saying that because of who he used to manage" script when people do moan about what they've seen so far.
I agree with much, not all but much, of your post, Paulie, but strongly disagree with this bit. I have absolutely no doubt that there would be far more patience shown if it wasn't for who he was formerly employed by. I'm not saying it's the only reason and I'm not saying it is true of everyone but the Small Heath factor does make a difference.
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Is there a name for the internet law that says the more idiotic the statement, the more convinced the poster is that 'everybody' thinks the same?
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I don't give a flying fuck where he came from. Although I suppose it would add to the piss taking pot if we took their most successful manager in living memory and he led us to some success.
All I care about is what he does for us, and so far he's just about done ok, which given our fixture list to date isn't overly inspiring. So put me firmly in the "sitting on the fence" section of our support. I assume it's where most of our support currently is regarding him.
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Did William Shakespeare talk about people who 'doth protest too much'?
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In Europe? *winky*
;D Can' t argue with that..
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I cannot understand why so many people, who are not Blues fans, have such an intimate knowledge of McLeish's career.
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I have a small knowledge of his career, and am willing to give him a chance.
Saunders wasn't exactly an overnight success.
But it was worth the wait....
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I'd have thought most football fans have decent knowledge of all managers in the same division as their club, and that most pay a bit more attention to what's happening at their local rivals than they do to most other clubs.
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I'd have thought most football fans have decent knowledge of all managers in the same division as their club, and that most pay a bit more attention to what's happening at their local rivals than they do to most other clubs.
They should have forgotten about them when they went into the 3rd Divison instead of showing so much interest in them instead of putting their energy towards Villa.
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Explain Hughton. Getting Newcastle promoted was a piece of piss given the players they had, a much easier job than getting Blues up.
Everyone is so one eyed about McLeish's record, yes they went down last season but they also won a cup and had their best ever PL finish the season before. He's also got decent achievements from his time in Scotland and not just with Rangers. So it's a mixed record, not the unmitigated disaster that is being suggested. He's also, seemingly, a thoroughly decent and likeable man.
He wasn't my first choice, far from it, but now he's here he's got my backing and I'm not going to undermine him and therefore the club by bitching and whinging about it every 5 minutes.
When Hughton was sacked on 7th December 2010, Newcastle were 11th in the league and 5 places better off than Villa, the previous week they had been 9th, having gained a 1-1 draw at Chelsea. They also had in that season impressively beaten Villa by 6 goals to 0 - they ended up finishing 12th with a new manager and over half the season left - at the very least he was a very promising manager in my view and he attacked, which is more than you can say than Alex 'Hard to Beat' McLeish.
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Incidentally, whilst I think it is harsh and narrow minded of people to slaughter the manager five league games in, I think it equally narrow minded to reach for the "you're only saying that because of who he used to manage" script when people do moan about what they've seen so far.
I agree with much, not all but much, of your post, Paulie, but strongly disagree with this bit. I have absolutely no doubt that there would be far more patience shown if it wasn't for who he was formerly employed by. I'm not saying it's the only reason and I'm not saying it is true of everyone but the Small Heath factor does make a difference.
You're right, I'm sure it does make a difference, I think the main difference will be that he's going to get far less leeway than, say, Houllier did when things start going badly wrong.
I do strongly think, though, that it's silly both to slate him for where he was before and also to use that as a reason to write off criticism of him. His former employers should be used neither as a stick to beat him with or as a reason to discount what people may see as valid criticism of him.
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I'd have thought most football fans have decent knowledge of all managers in the same division as their club, and that most pay a bit more attention to what's happening at their local rivals than they do to most other clubs.
They should have forgotten about them when they went into the 3rd Divison instead of showing so much interest in them instead of putting their energy towards Villa.
I would have thought that having knowledge of football in general and of your local rivals has fuck all to do with putting energy into following your own club.
And God forbid, most of my mates support local clubs so when we talk football I hear what's going on at their clubs.
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
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I don't think it makes a difference that he came over from Blues and here's why. Just imagine if the board hired Avram Grant instead of Alex McLeish. I think the fans would be equally be less patient with him seeing as he tooken down 2 clubs in the Premier League. Another proven example was Steve McClaren who we didn't want.
If Alex McLeish finished Blues in the top half in 4 seasons in a row (with silverware) and then went to us, I think alot of fans will have faith with him. I sure would.
Fact is, he isn't good at at all. He had a bigger net spend than Wigan and they also played better open attacking football. There's a reason why the board chose Martinez before McLeish.
I'll tell you another manager who would have been good and available seeing as we were cutting costs. Di Matteo. He was available before becoming the assistant manager of Chelsea and had to work in a serious budget at West Brom. He would have been interesting that's for sure. I thought he was unfairly sacked at West Brom despite the bad run seeing as he got them promoted and played good attacking football including a good victory away at the Emirates and a draw at Old Trafford (the only match Man Utd didn't win at home that season). He could have turned it round unlike McLeish who has failed twice.
No idea why the board overlooked him. Again, I'll put it down to them being clueless and out of their depth. I like Randy Lerner, but he seriously needs to hire a new group of people who know what they're doing.
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My Albion supporting best mate reckons the bad run they were on was far from the main reason they got rid of Di Matteo. The fact he was touting himself for other jobs while at WBA didn't impress the board for some reason.
No idea how true that is but have no reason not to believe it either.
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I make no apology for wanting the best possible candidate to bring success to my club - it is a shame as will be proved over time and once again that Alex McLeish is not that candidate.
As I said, he isn't going to be given a chance as you've already made up your mind. So what happens is everything he says or does is criticised and twisted to turn it into something negative because you're desperate to be "proved" right.
you and your fellow sympathizers must surely realize that this was always going to happen, when you employ a manager which totally splits the supporter base ( especially one from our bitterest rivals) it can NEVER be good for the football club as a whole, he will be given a chance by the few but the underlying trend is one of the majority waiting for McLeish to fail, and this is why Lerner should have known better, and he should not have been signed, for the good of Aston Villa Football Club, this appointment would never have happened anywhere else in football , and shows our american owners lack of understanding of our traditions ( in america it is considered kudos to steal your rivals coach) McLeish will have to be the best manager of recent times to be accepted, which even you know he wont, so he is doomed to fail, just think how good he could be with a chairman who backed him.
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I don't give a flying fuck where he came from. Although I suppose it would add to the piss taking pot if we took their most successful manager in living memory and he led us to some success.
All I care about is what he does for us, and so far he's just about done ok, which given our fixture list to date isn't overly inspiring. So put me firmly in the "sitting on the fence" section of our support. I assume it's where most of our support currently is regarding him.
Exactly. It's not fucking rocket science but when you have complete and utter morons critisising every single word he says, you'll always opt for the non-moron side. I want to see what he can do with the existing squad, shit, it's not that bad, there's plenty of room to show what he's about. Hide behind the wage cuts etc and there's plenty out there that would jump at the challenge.
For now, I'm prepared to give him my support, afterall, he is the manager of the team I love. That support is not unlimited, I have my expectations but to read some of the shit thrown against the man, it really is embarrassing.
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I'd have thought most football fans have decent knowledge of all managers in the same division as their club, and that most pay a bit more attention to what's happening at their local rivals than they do to most other clubs.
Sure but as we know, it makes no difference what manager you put in front of that rabble, they're always going to be shit. They're a poxy little club, always have been, always will be. What's with the obsession?
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Whisper it but Lerner thinks he's found our own David Moyes and for half the price.
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Whisper it but Lerner thinks he's found our own David Moyes and for half the price.
Yep.
On your earlier point, I find myself rooting for McLeish more with every lobotomy-inducing 'blue nose *insert expletive*' comment. I think and hope that most of us are fair minded enough to give the bloke a fair crack.
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Explain Hughton. Getting Newcastle promoted was a piece of piss given the players they had, a much easier job than getting Blues up.
Everyone is so one eyed about McLeish's record, yes they went down last season but they also won a cup and had their best ever PL finish the season before. He's also got decent achievements from his time in Scotland and not just with Rangers. So it's a mixed record, not the unmitigated disaster that is being suggested. He's also, seemingly, a thoroughly decent and likeable man.
He wasn't my first choice, far from it, but now he's here he's got my backing and I'm not going to undermine him and therefore the club by bitching and whinging about it every 5 minutes.
When Hughton was sacked on 7th December 2010, Newcastle were 11th in the league and 5 places better off than Villa, the previous week they had been 9th, having gained a 1-1 draw at Chelsea. They also had in that season impressively beaten Villa by 6 goals to 0 - they ended up finishing 12th with a new manager and over half the season left - at the very least he was a very promising manager in my view and he attacked, which is more than you can say than Alex 'Hard to Beat' McLeish.
It's bloody Newcastle with huge crowds and players like Barton and Nolan to pick from. you'd have to be an idiot not to at least get them into mid table. Taking the Noses to 9th is a more difficult task, winning a trophy with them is a major achievement and they're not the first club to hit a wall after putting everything into a cup competition.
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Whisper it but Lerner thinks he's found our own David Moyes and for half the price.
Well, you never know. Maybe he has.
As for the style of play argument, and accepting it's only five games into this season, we played some pretty dismal stuff under Houllier and O'Neil too, at times.
McLeish does seem like a solid, safe bet for the club at the moment, and thus far he does appear to have 'galvanised' the squad, which may not have been too easy. He's used the funds he did have well (although N'Zogbia hasn't, um, 'fired' as yet I'm sure he will...), and as an ambassador for the club I'd say he has made a good start. Unbeaten in the league isn't a bad start, either, although I do think we should have done a little bit better.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Randy Lerner actually does know what he's doing - by which I mean, a season or two of relative parsimony may well reap rewards in a year or two. Perhaps building a new squad bit by bit might pay off; a new centre-back in January, a new 'holding' midfielder in the summer....
A few 'ifs and buts' there, but I don't think things are as horrendous as all that.
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Chris, I am time outing from this thread on an 'agree to disagree' arley barley type fashion.
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17th would seem accomplishment in his eyes no doubt and probably the board's as well because it's another season where they can get their greedy hands on the Premier League money.
Marvellous!
Randy the asset stripper. He's put no money whatsoever into our club has he? He's only in it for the Sky cash.
*Rolly eye and utter cockend emoticons*
Has Randy put in any money other than what it cost to buy the club? Everything spent has been in the form of loans to RAL and we're getting charged interest on those. I seriously doubt RL's interest has been wholly philanthropic; anyone rolls up with the necessaries to buy us tomorrow and he's off. Can't wait meself - RL / Ellis you can barely see the join...
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I do strongly think, though, that it's silly both to slate him for where he was before and also to use that as a reason to write off criticism of him. His former employers should be used neither as a stick to beat him with or as a reason to discount what people may see as valid criticism of him.
this is confusing me but perhaps it's a little too early on a Sunday morning to argue if sitting on a very wide fence is a bad idea!
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We know the board are the problem here, with their mishandling of situations such as the sale of Downing (Young was pretty unavoidable, but Spurs showed with Modric what could have been done with Downing), and then what amounted to, essentially, reinvesting about a quarter of that. However, it is also the fact that they know so little about the game as to appoint the current manager, who I don't doubt is doing his best, but who is just not good enough, and the fact that the board appointed him does not reflect well on them.
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How are people going to go on like this, its pretty obvious we aint gonna be as good as last year when we loose our two best players from last year, get a grip and stop blaming him for not playing like barca, which some unrealistic people on here seem to think we are...
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I would have thought that having knowledge of football in general and of your local rivals has fuck all to do with putting energy into following your own club.
And God forbid, most of my mates support local clubs
so when we talk football I hear what's going on at their
clubs.
Correct answer.
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Fully agree with this I am afraid. Unless something happens in the next few seasons to level the financial state of the game we have to accept that Randy is happy for the Club to mess around as an also ran in the PL.
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McLeish was brought here to shore up the defence and make us hard to beat. So far we've conceded less than one goal a game in the league and are still unbeaten in the league. His record doesn't justify expectations that we'll play fluid, attacking football. Park the bus and, if possible, nick a goal on a set-piece or counter attack, seems to be his mantra. That's what we've got so far, and that's probably what we could expect.
Hope is an important part of following a football match, but the idea that selling Young and Downing and appointing McLeish as manager would have us playing entertaining football, is a bit like thinking that selling Given and appointing Ian Holloway would do wonders for our defence.
What we've got, is what we've signed up for.
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McLeish was brought here to shore up the defence and make us hard to beat. So far we've conceded less than one goal a game in the league and are still unbeaten in the league. His record doesn't justify expectations that we'll play fluid, attacking football. Park the bus and, if possible, nick a goal on a set-piece or counter attack, seems to be his mantra. That's what we've got so far, and that's probably what we could expect.
I understand the argument, but I don't think that McLeish is a particularly good defensive manager, just a particularly defensive one. He doesn't know how to truly organise a back line so that they won't concede, he just plonks people deep and behind the ball and relies on courage under fire. I don't think you can call any manager particularly good at defensive play if you see how goalkeepers have consistently enhanced their reputations under him, as any team relying on its keeper is clearly giving away too many chances.
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Is there a name for the internet law that says the more idiotic the statement, the more convinced the poster is that 'everybody' thinks the same?
There's the 'Katie Price Assertion' - 'everybody agrees with me because, being me, I'm always right. So why wouldn't they?'
Evidence - every bloody book the woman has ever had printed on her behalf by a mean-eyed pink publicity machine written. Including, if the reviews are true, the latest one.
If we're going for sheer granite-jawed steely eyed slightly mad self -assertion in a football context, I'd offer Cantona.
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Clever bit of P.R. whatever way you look at it.
"You can slag me off but no-one good would have took the job under these conditions"
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McLeish was brought here to shore up the defence and make us hard to beat. So far we've conceded less than one goal a game in the league and are still unbeaten in the league. His record doesn't justify expectations that we'll play fluid, attacking football. Park the bus and, if possible, nick a goal on a set-piece or counter attack, seems to be his mantra. That's what we've got so far, and that's probably what we could expect.
I understand the argument, but I don't think that McLeish is a particularly good defensive manager, just a particularly defensive one. He doesn't know how to truly organise a back line so that they won't concede, he just plonks people deep and behind the ball and relies on courage under fire.
I agree with this. His success isn't based on good organization, but on risk-aversion. So clean sheets will come at the cost of not scoring much. My point isn't that McLeish is any good, because I don't think he is; it's that he hasn't underperformed compared to what could be expected (based on his previous record).
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McLeish was brought here to shore up the defence and make us hard to beat. So far we've conceded less than one goal a game in the league and are still unbeaten in the league. His record doesn't justify expectations that we'll play fluid, attacking football. Park the bus and, if possible, nick a goal on a set-piece or counter attack, seems to be his mantra. That's what we've got so far, and that's probably what we could expect.
I understand the argument, but I don't think that McLeish is a particularly good defensive manager, just a particularly defensive one. He doesn't know how to truly organise a back line so that they won't concede, he just plonks people deep and behind the ball and relies on courage under fire.
I agree with this. His success isn't based on good organization, but on risk-aversion. So clean sheets will come at the cost of not scoring much. My point isn't that McLeish is any good, because I don't think he is; it's that he hasn't underperformed compared to what could be expected (based on his previous record).
Can't disagree. Which is why the board's appointment of him, short of a character-altering change of style, is at best mysterious and at worst misguided.
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Whatever you think of McLeish, he's not stupid.
He'll be aware of the grumblings about the style of play, and aware that he needs to do something about it. We can't go on drawing matches forever.
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Whisper it but Lerner thinks he's found our own David Moyes and for half the price.
Well, you never know. Maybe he has.
As for the style of play argument, and accepting it's only five games into this season, we played some pretty dismal stuff under Houllier and O'Neil too, at times.
McLeish does seem like a solid, safe bet for the club at the moment, and thus far he does appear to have 'galvanised' the squad, which may not have been too easy. He's used the funds he did have well (although N'Zogbia hasn't, um, 'fired' as yet I'm sure he will...), and as an ambassador for the club I'd say he has made a good start. Unbeaten in the league isn't a bad start, either, although I do think we should have done a little bit better.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Randy Lerner actually does know what he's doing - by which I mean, a season or two of relative parsimony may well reap rewards in a year or two. Perhaps building a new squad bit by bit might pay off; a new centre-back in January, a new 'holding' midfielder in the summer....
A few 'ifs and buts' there, but I don't think things are as horrendous as all that.
The trouble with that theory is that as we've seen, time waits for no man, and that's especially true in the Premier League. We've got an owner who after completely losing control of finances, is now implementing an emergency economy drive. That's not good business sense or good planning, it's the only choice he basically has. So, a crap owner with no business sense, a club with the finances out of control, and a manager with a reputation for relegations and playing poor football in the Premier League. It's not the end of the world, but it's not going to sell any more tickets is it?
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Who else wanted to work with that bunch of whingeing unprofessional moaners?
Word must have got around at the after match drinkies what it was like at VP, sorry but nothing will improve harmony there until the last of the MoN brigade goes out the door
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I see Hutton was in the sunday mercury slagging off 'arry redknapp. Very poor show if he hasn't shoehorned in a jibe at Houllier. The guy must have met him surely?
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Mcleish is a symptom of where the club is at, not the cause.
He represents the ambition of the owner.
Whisper it but Lerner thinks he's found our own David Moyes and for half the price.
Well, you never know. Maybe he has.
As for the style of play argument, and accepting it's only five games into this season, we played some pretty dismal stuff under Houllier and O'Neil too, at times.
McLeish does seem like a solid, safe bet for the club at the moment, and thus far he does appear to have 'galvanised' the squad, which may not have been too easy. He's used the funds he did have well (although N'Zogbia hasn't, um, 'fired' as yet I'm sure he will...), and as an ambassador for the club I'd say he has made a good start. Unbeaten in the league isn't a bad start, either, although I do think we should have done a little bit better.
It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Randy Lerner actually does know what he's doing - by which I mean, a season or two of relative parsimony may well reap rewards in a year or two. Perhaps building a new squad bit by bit might pay off; a new centre-back in January, a new 'holding' midfielder in the summer....
A few 'ifs and buts' there, but I don't think things are as horrendous as all that.
The trouble with that theory is that as we've seen, time waits for no man, and that's especially true in the Premier League. We've got an owner who after completely losing control of finances, is now implementing an emergency economy drive. That's not good business sense or good planning, it's the only choice he basically has. So, a crap owner with no business sense, a club with the finances out of control, and a manager with a reputation for relegations and playing poor football in the Premier League. It's not the end of the world, but it's not going to sell any more tickets is it?
No, it's not, and no wonder. I'm not saying that it's all rosy, and in fact I'm fairly sure that for all the good intentions the board probably aren't as clued up on things as I'd like them to be - and the appointment of McLeish in my mind is, as you suggest, part of an emergency economy. If that's the route we're on, I'd much rather have taken a chance on Martinez or, better still, Quique Flores - at least there'd be an element of the unknown, or some better football on offer.
The most damaging thing over the summer (or the last couple, really) is the sense of predictability around us. I don't think we'll be relegated, I reckon we'll finish around tenth. And it'll be fairly dull getting there, I'd bet.
As you say, that won't sell tickets (I can't honestly say I'm inspired to spend whatever it is to get over there right now!). But if it leaves us better off in a year or so, then maybe it'll seem worth it. Maybe...but I have my doubts.
God, that's not really a great argument for the club at the moment, is it!?
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probably not all that relavent to the thread,
but i saw a mate of mine this morning who is a West Ham fan,
i said good result yesterday, he pulled his face, and said its the first time he realised what life under Big Sam is going to be like, he's never felt so down coming out of the ground after winning, and he said most everyone else felt the same that he spoke to,
i know they havent had much to sing about for a few years, but i can understand how he's feeling,
i support AM as he's the manager, i hope he can play a more expansive attacking game, i dont agree with the posters who think its been very negative so far, some of his line ups have been far from that,
but its always that nagging feeling in the back of your mind that he will always revert to men behind one up front kill the game sort of tactics, as he depolyed with them next door.
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I see Hutton was in the sunday mercury slagging off 'arry redknapp. Very poor show if he hasn't shoehorned in a jibe at Houllier. The guy must have met him surely?
chortle :)
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Neville believes we are lucky and fortune to have him as manager ::)
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
Yes, it was his fault that the linesman gave a goal kick instead of a corner and then from the resulting hoof we conceded an unlucky own goal.
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I think Mcleish made a big error in taking off Bannan, who was the best player on the pitch in the second half, and leaving on a poorly performing N'zogbia. Bannan looked like he was going to create something, Nzogbia looked like he'd struggle to beat an egg.
If Bannan was injured then its understandable. He didn't look it from his reaction though.
On a positive note, Mcleish must have read them the riot act at half time. Although we'd have struggled to be as bad as the first half.
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Just tiredness with Bannan I thought.
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Just tiredness with Bannan I thought.
Bannan didn't look like he thought he was tired though. He was shaking his head when he came off.
Bit worrying if he was tired after 70 minutes. How old is he? 21?
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Just tiredness with Bannan I thought.
Bannan didn't look like he thought he was tired though. He was shaking his head when he came off.
Bit worrying if he was tired after 70 minutes. How old is he? 21?
He'd played on Tuesday too, nothing wrong with trying to look after the youngsters.
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Just tiredness with Bannan I thought.
Bannan didn't look like he thought he was tired though. He was shaking his head when he came off.
Bit worrying if he was tired after 70 minutes. How old is he? 21?
He'd played on Tuesday too, nothing wrong with trying to look after the youngsters.
I agree to a certain extent with looking after the youngsters. Just thought that Bannan was having a vital effect for us in the game. I think his substitution meant we lost a bit of control and calmness on the ball. QPR struggled to handle the movement and passing of Bannan and Ireland in the second half.
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
Yes, it was his fault that the linesman gave a goal kick instead of a corner and then from the resulting hoof we conceded an unlucky own goal.
Did we? I couldn't tell if it was a GK or CK from the play, but I did look away for a while and then saw them attack and score. But on replays it looked like it was our hoof back not won by Albrighton in the air just inside their half that was then hoofed into our box for Collins not to deal with properly.
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
Yes, it was his fault that the linesman gave a goal kick instead of a corner and then from the resulting hoof we conceded an unlucky own goal.
but it was his fault that he made the substitutions and gave instructions to time wast at corners
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
Yes, it was his fault that the linesman gave a goal kick instead of a corner and then from the resulting hoof we conceded an unlucky own goal.
but it was his fault that he made the substitutions and gave instructions to time wast at corners
Come off it, every team in the country would try to run down the clock when they get a corner in injury time defending a one nil away from home.
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There was quite an odd moment late on where Weimann and Albrighton? had the ball in the corner, then Weimann inexplicably crossed the ball into a QPR box containing zero Villa players.
I know he's inexperienced but that was stupid.
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There was quite an odd moment late on where Weimann and Albrighton? had the ball in the corner, then Weimann inexplicably crossed the ball into a QPR box containing zero Villa players.
I know he's inexperienced but that was stupid.
No he didn't .... he tried to win a corner off the QPR defenders legs and missed ....
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The first 45 minutes today had me dreading the rest of the season, it was everything which was bad about his Blues side last year.
There were some encouraging signs in the first 25 or 30 mins of the second half, but it was his post match interview that gave me most hope.
One of the words he used to describe the first half was "insipid", which is absolutely bang-on.
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The first 45 minutes today had me dreading the rest of the season, it was everything which was bad about his Blues side last year.
There were some encouraging signs in the first 25 or 30 mins of the second half, but it was his post match interview that gave me most hope.
One of the words he used to describe the first half was "insipid", which is absolutely bang-on.
And seeing some of his facial expressions and arm waving during the first half certainly gave me the impression that he was not liking what he was seeing and it was not how he was expecting them to play. This would appear to have been confirmed by his aftermatch interview. The conundrum is - why the hell were they playing like that for the first 45 minutes?
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This is probably not the best place to record the incident but I am too tired to start a new thread. A lad in front of me was thrown out by the stewards for having an empty plastic beer bottle in his hand. He did not raise his voice or swear he only asked the steward if he would take the bottle and let him carry on watching the game. He was refused on grounds of - you guessed it - health and safety.
Forty four quid for seats designed for midgets with a restricted view and QPR adds insult to injury by throwing out a Villa fan for a very minor breach of a stupid rule.
I also refuse to believe that shit hole of a ground complies with FA regulations about time to evacuate the stands. Isn't it supposed to be five minutes? We waited a good twenty minutes to get from the back of Y6 into a clear open space. What are clubs like that doing in the Premiership?
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I really am tired. I intended that post to go on the post match thread. It referred to an incident at today's game which made me very angry.
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Why did he have an empty beer bottle in his hand? Did he drink it in the stand? If he did then its an offence. Don't make it right but he'd have been kicked out of every ground in the country
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He did not drink it in the stand. He put it in his pocket I assume rather than throw it on the ground. When I walked out I saw dozens of soft drink bottles beneath the seats thrown down. I don't feel like having a ruck but if you or any reasonable person thinks an empty plastic bottle breaches the law about taking alcohol into the viewing area I will eat my hat. The lad had my sympathy even if he does not have yours.
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There was quite an odd moment late on where Weimann and Albrighton? had the ball in the corner, then Weimann inexplicably crossed the ball into a QPR box containing zero Villa players.
I know he's inexperienced but that was stupid.
No he didn't .... he tried to win a corner off the QPR defenders legs and missed ....
larf!
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He did not drink it in the stand. He put it in his pocket I assume rather than throw it on the ground. When I walked out I saw dozens of soft drink bottles beneath the seats thrown down. I don't feel like having a ruck but if you or any reasonable person thinks an empty plastic bottle breaches the law about taking alcohol into the viewing area I will eat my hat. The lad had my sympathy even if he does not have yours.
Sorry to not have as much sympathy either, but as Phil mentioned, the law is not to drink alcohol in the stands. It is weird that he suddenly decided not to drop an empty bottle under the stand but decided to take it into the stand and then give it to a steward. And I don't know why you are then saying there were lots of soft drink bottle around on the floor (which is normal in any football match) means he could take an alcohol bottle in but not want to drop it on the floor.
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I would build the midfield round Bannan and Ireland and defence round Collins, Dunne and Given and Bent upfront. If we can sort out Ireland and N'Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and get Bent fit and sort out passing game we could have a nice team. Alex McLeish should have a word with Sven Goran Erikksson to see if he can find the key for Ireland's form. McLeish is doing right things slowly but we need to improve quicker and be more ruthless with out of form players.
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Getting back to the empty beer bottle debate. What I would like to know is why it's illegal to drink an alcoholic drink inside the viewing area of a football stadium in England, but at the Rugby World Cup in New Zealand (where national pride is at stake) you can drink to your hearts content in the so called viewing area.
Yet another nonsensical part of the Taylor Report. You can turn up for a game as pissed as a fart but take an alcoholic drink into the 'viewing area' and you become a criminal. Thank you Mrs. Thatcher.
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There was quite an odd moment late on where Weimann and Albrighton? had the ball in the corner, then Weimann inexplicably crossed the ball into a QPR box containing zero Villa players.
I know he's inexperienced but that was stupid.
No he didn't .... he tried to win a corner off the QPR defenders legs and missed ....
Well he's crap then ;)
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Getting back to the empty beer bottle debate. What I would like to know is why it's illegal to drink an alcoholic drink inside the viewing area of a football stadium in England, but at the Rugby World Cup in New Zealand (where national pride is at stake) you can drink to your hearts content in the so called viewing area.
Yet another nonsensical part of the Taylor Report. You can turn up for a game as pissed as a fart but take an alcoholic drink into the 'viewing area' and you become a criminal. Thank you Mrs. Thatcher.
Strictly speaking, isn't it an offence to enter a football ground whilst shit faced?
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Getting back to the empty beer bottle debate. What I would like to know is why it's illegal to drink an alcoholic drink inside the viewing area of a football stadium in England, but at the Rugby World Cup in New Zealand (where national pride is at stake) you can drink to your hearts content in the so called viewing area.
Yet another nonsensical part of the Taylor Report. You can turn up for a game as pissed as a fart but take an alcoholic drink into the 'viewing area' and you become a criminal. Thank you Mrs. Thatcher.
Strictly speaking, isn't it an offence to enter a football ground whilst shit faced?
if you get caught you can get thrown out or refused entry
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A decent manager would have come away with 3 points today
Yes, it was his fault that the linesman gave a goal kick instead of a corner and then from the resulting hoof we conceded an unlucky own goal.
but it was his fault that he made the substitutions and gave instructions to time wast at corners
Come off it, every team in the country would try to run down the clock when they get a corner in injury time defending a one nil away from home.
Whilst that is true Chris, I noticed that whilst that corner was being set up, and rightly we intended on keeping the ball there, the sky cameras cut to Eck, giving instructions, and gesturing 'seven'? Now there weren't seven minutes injury time, and I am no lip reader, so my best guess at what it meant, was to have seven men in our half for our corner. This decision is key IMO to how we failed to see the game out in injury time. It left three players up the pitch, attempting to hold onto the ball for nearly three minutes. It was just asking for trouble. We lost the ball, and from that attack, failed to deal with the hoof. We made no attempt to keep the ball from the corner and invited the pressure. I dont blame him entirely, as Collins and Hutton were more than capable of coping with said hoof, but I think this decision and instruction is key.
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I think you're making a big assumption there, Glasses. It might have meant keep 7 out of the area, Mark the number 7, the name of his favourite film etc.
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More of an educated guess I'd say. I may need to see a replay myself, but there was Weimann and Albrighton in the corner, and one person in the box IIRC. Of course with TV angles and images, you don't see everything.
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Whilst that is true Chris, I noticed that whilst that corner was being set up, and rightly we intended on keeping the ball there, the sky cameras cut to Eck, giving instructions, and gesturing 'seven'?
He's getting his predictions in early for the 'Guess the crowd' thread on H&V, won't be far off 7,000 from January onwards if that's the standard of football on offer. That was the worst game of football i've seen since watching 25 minutes of Watford v Forest on saturday which was fucking dire, no wonder there are so many empty seats at football matches these days.
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I went to bed immediately after posting on here about the empty beer bottle. I must admit to being unpleasantly surprised that I am in a minority of one feeling sympathy for the lad thrown out for having an empty plastic beer bottle in his pocket.
My son has a friend who is a barrister and a fanatical football fan. I will ask his professional opinion whether the anti drinking of alcohol or the taking of alcohol into a viewing area law is breached if the bottle is empty and all the contents consumed legally. My lay opinion is that a bottle of beer becomes a bottle when the beer is consumed. The young man whose name I obtained from his friends had the seat immediately in front of me. I watched him and his mates come into the stand. Never at any time did he drink from the bottle or take it from his pocket until he was approached by steward who saw it. The lad pulled it from his pocket when challenged and said "it's empty". Unaware that it was their intention to eject him from the ground he said "will you throw it away for me?" Then the health and safety bollocks kicked in The lad obeyed them without complaint and left his seat seemingly still unaware that he was about to be ejected. It was an absolutely ridiculous over reaction to at the very worst a minor transgression.
The reason I mentioned the coke and water bottles rolling about under the seats was to underscore the legality of having plastic bottles in the stand. A beer bottle with no beer in it I submit is just another plastic bottle.
I sometimes think half the people who post on here are coppers, used to be coppers or want to be coppers.
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I agree with you, Brian, it's a sorry state of affairs when an empty bottle is sufficient to get you chucked out. I thought the rules said you can't consume alcohol within view of the pitch, which in itself is a hammer to smash a nut, so I'm struggling to think what the poor sod did wrong.
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I agree with you Brian, but i'm not sure that helps much ;0)
On another note i noticed AM was claiming in the mail that the players performance was effected by being "frightened of the fans expectations".
eh? I'm sorry Alex but we have lower expectations than we had for many a season. In fact most of us would be happy with mid-table mediocrity. Or maybe he means the expectations that our players can at least pass to each other.
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Fucking cockerney jobsworth!
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I went to bed immediately after posting on here about the empty beer bottle. I must admit to being unpleasantly surprised that I am in a minority of one feeling sympathy for the lad thrown out for having an empty plastic beer bottle in his pocket.
My son has a friend who is a barrister and a fanatical football fan. I will ask his professional opinion whether the anti drinking of alcohol or the taking of alcohol into a viewing area law is breached if the bottle is empty and all the contents consumed legally. My lay opinion is that a bottle of beer becomes a bottle when the beer is consumed. The young man whose name I obtained from his friends had the seat immediately in front of me. I watched him and his mates come into the stand. Never at any time did he drink from the bottle or take it from his pocket until he was approached by steward who saw it. The lad pulled it from his pocket when challenged and said "it's empty". Unaware that it was their intention to eject him from the ground he said "will you throw it away for me?" Then the health and safety bollocks kicked in The lad obeyed them without complaint and left his seat seemingly still unaware that he was about to be ejected. It was an absolutely ridiculous over reaction to at the very worst a minor transgression.
The reason I mentioned the coke and water bottles rolling about under the seats was to underscore the legality of having plastic bottles in the stand. A beer bottle with no beer in it I submit is just another plastic bottle.
I sometimes think half the people who post on here are coppers, used to be coppers or want to be coppers.
'ello, 'ello, 'ello!
Got any old bits of uniform?
Gotta dash - on duty!
neenaaneenaaneenaa...
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I agree with you Brian, but i'm not sure that helps much ;0)
On another note i noticed AM was claiming in the mail that the players performance was effected by being "frightened of the fans expectations".
eh? I'm sorry Alex but we have lower expectations than we had for many a season. In fact most of us would be happy with mid-table mediocrity. Or maybe he means the expectations that our players can at least pass to each other.
Not everyone is as supportive as you, Greg. Some people are very quick to criticise and get on their backs.
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I agree with you Brian, but i'm not sure that helps much ;0)
On another note i noticed AM was claiming in the mail that the players performance was effected by being "frightened of the fans expectations".
eh? I'm sorry Alex but we have lower expectations than we had for many a season. In fact most of us would be happy with mid-table mediocrity. Or maybe he means the expectations that our players can at least pass to each other.
Not everyone is as supportive as you, Greg. Some people are very quick to criticise and get on their backs.
still, its a daft thing to say. Most people are just expecting to survive, so if that level of expectation is frightening the players then god help us
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I think he means that 'some' people are quick to get on the back of players and that has an impact on confidence. Now, it's something that they're going to gave to learn to deal with but it can inhibit how they want to play and make them more likely to go for the safe option. I think this is what he's getting at when he says they need to toughen up.
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I agree with you Brian, but i'm not sure that helps much ;0)
On another note i noticed AM was claiming in the mail that the players performance was effected by being "frightened of the fans expectations".
eh? I'm sorry Alex but we have lower expectations than we had for many a season. In fact most of us would be happy with mid-table mediocrity. Or maybe he means the expectations that our players can at least pass to each other.
I've just watched his interview and he doesn't say that at all. He says there is a level of expectation and the players have to meet it at a club like Villa and in the first half they fell way below that.
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I read it far more as 'The players need to get a grip amd I need to work out how to make them' than 'The fans need to get off the player's backs'
I have to say one thing I am liking about McLeish is that he usually imterviews as if he has seen the same game that I did.
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It's almost like there are people waiting for the slightest chance to criticise the manager...
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Decent article in the tory graph by Winter. http://t.co/dTFVcKmf
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Fair comment there.
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I have to say one thing I am liking about McLeish is that he usually imterviews as if he has seen the same game that I did.
Me too. Which doesn't always happen with managers - someone like Alan Pardew, for example. I'm always left wondering what he was watching!
McLeish's interview on Sunday was good. Very honest. Apologised for sweating a lot, too.
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Decent article in the tory graph by Winter. http://t.co/dTFVcKmf
Good article that.
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Decent article in the tory graph by Winter. http://t.co/dTFVcKmf
Good article that, and for a broadsheet The Telegraph seem to have some respect for 'other' teams.
They also point out that, with all the talk about balancing the books at Villa, RL did purchase Villa at a fairly decent price. Didn't dablues cost about £80 odd million?
You do almost get the feeling it's as though the manager was brought in two thirds of the way through a season, when we are 4th bottom. His target being 'stop us from getting relegated'. Our approach being set out as to not lose the game, rather than go to win. Hence we start playing QPR as though we are playing Manure at Old Trafford.
Perhaps that's just his approach after managing across the city.
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Bit simplistic that article. It may be AM's instinct to play defensively but frankly if he did allow us to be more adventurous we'd get punished because we haven't got the personnel in the middle to cope unless we go with 3 in there and even then we'll be asking someone to do a job they're maybe not comfortable with. Jenas will be the key - if he comes in biting at the bit then maybe we can allow a bit more of an attacking flair.
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As Houllier found out it is very difficult for a team entrenched in playing one way to suddenly change. We are lazy in midfield with players not prepared to spend the energy to get in the box to support the forwards.We saw a little example of how it should be done at the start of the second half against QPR, why he took Bannon off unless he took a knock i've no idea, not convinced by Bannon but will admit it weakened the structure. I watched the Norwich-Sunderland game this morning and rest more easily that we won't be fighting relegation.
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RE: Bottlegate. There were blokes each side of me that got ejected for this at QPR. As much as you may say he never drank out of the bottle, how on earth did the Stewards see it? That stand is steep enough and cramped enough to suggest that only when raised to head height could any Stewards see it. The one lad who got kicked out gave a completely different reaction. It started kicking off a little with the Stewards and single Policeman, with him hiding and other people starting a bit of pushing. Not sure if he got away with it.
After this though, we got another lad next to us hiding after being kicked out for Drinking. Very strange, never seen so many instances of it!! Ridiculous rule, but if it's there...
Very good article just mentioned, by the way.
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Decent article in the tory graph by Winter. http://t.co/dTFVcKmf
Good read, that.
From a tactical point of viewm the one thing I think is a problem and hasn't really been touched upon is the fullbacks. They should be our release ball wide as, other than Albrighton, we don;t have any natural wingers. Gabby and N'Zog our the wide options when everybody is fit, but one is a striker and the other likes to cut in more than go on the outisde. However, I don't think we've gotten enough from Warnock and Hutton attacking wise yet, which has meant we're very narrow and added to the blunt edge we've seen attacking wise.
It's about balance and maybe Jenas strengthening the midfield will give them more freedom to get forward?
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Maybe John. I noticed Warnock, in particular, got forward several times and opened QPR up in the second half. Lack of width is one major reason why I want to see Albrighton in - him wide right and CNZ wide left.
Robbo's point about our midfield is a good one. I think the likes of Petrov has been conditioned to sit deep and merely funnel the ball out wide to Young or Downing, and they'd basically take things from there. The midfield has to step up and take charge of games. We still haven't got the right blend in there.
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Maybe John. I noticed Warnock, in particular, got forward several times and opened QPR up in the second half. Lack of width is one major reason why I want to see Albrighton in - him wide right and CNZ wide left.
Given that that 2nd half was aswell as we've played since the Blackburn game, I think that proves the point that we need one or more of the FBs bombing forward if we're going to be a potent attacking force.
I take your point about Albrighton, but Gabby's made himself undroppable so far, so when Bent's back Gabby will be wide. Maybe the solution is to go more 4-2-3-1 once Jenas is fit?
Given
Hutton
Dunne
Collins
Warnock
Petrov
Jenas
Albrighton
N'Zogbia
Gabby
Bent
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One thing I will say (and Henry Winter also mentioned it in his article) but with the players at his disposal McLeish should be able to create a good footballing side who can attack well.
I also refuse to believe that N'Zogbia and Albrighton have turned to shit overnight. A bit of time at the training ground and an injection of some of the confidence both are sadly lacking will help them both get better if not as good as Downing or Ash Young.
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It's almost like there are people waiting for the slightest chance to criticise the manager...
Surely not :)
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One thing I will say (and Henry Winter also mentioned it in his article) but with the players at his disposal McLeish should be able to create a good footballing side who can attack well.
This is covering similar ground to the "Lightweght Midfield" thread but we need a "destroyer" to allow this to happen. Hopefully this need will be addressed at the next transfer window.
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I am more determined than ever to give him a chance. He has already done more than I ever expected by persuading our contracted players actually to take the field in a Villa shirt and kick the ball to each other.
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is there a link to Henry Winter's article ? (Found it)
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I am more determined than ever to give him a chance. He has already done more than I ever expected by persuading our contracted players actually to take the field in a Villa shirt and kick the ball to each other.
That's more than Mancini managed to do with Tevez
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I am more determined than ever to give him a chance. He has already done more than I ever expected by persuading our contracted players actually to take the field in a Villa shirt and kick the ball to each other.
They may take to the field, but kicking the ball to each other doesn't seem to be happening much.
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12 years ago today he was appointed.
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A very decent man. Crazy appointment though.
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A very decent man. Crazy appointment though.
Yes, A nice bloke, but what on earth possessed our owner to think that Mcleish, after having took the noses down and being our local rivals was the right man for the job I'll never know.
Bonkers.
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It still irks me that the Blues part of that gets referenced. It was a capability issue, not the fact he came from them.
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It still irks me that the Blues part of that gets referenced. It was a capability issue, not the fact he came from them.
This. If he had been any good, taking him from Small Heath would have been praised by our fans & rubbed into Small Heathen fans noses.
He was criticised because he was shit...
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A very decent man. Crazy appointment though.
Yes, A nice bloke, but what on earth possessed our owner to think that Mcleish, after having took the noses down and being our local rivals was the right man for the job I'll never know.
Bonkers.
I honestly believe it was Randy's "fuck you fans this is my club" moment due to the fans disapproval of Steve Maclaren possibly being appointment.
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I got a letter from Sir Alex Ferguson telling me how great Alex McLeish is so I’m going to keep it in my safety deposit box along with my signed pic of Kenny Dalglish.
https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/villa-chairman-lerner-man-utd-boss-ferguson-wrote-me-after-mcleish-appointment-2186991
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Why dredge up the murky past? We've had enough secrets and lies in this house.
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12 years ago today he was appointed.
12 years between the last Post and this one. That must be a world record surely?
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I liked McLeish and wanted him to succeed if only to shut up the dullards who protested outside Villa Park.
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Nice bloke, seems to talk well of us the few times I'd heard him speak. Shocking appointment for us though, utterly baffling.
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I remember my dad trying to get “Alex Mcleish’s claret and blue army going” from K5 on his first game and getting told to f-off, shouting get behind the manager and receiving various iterations of not behind a bluenose - followed by an (admittedly quite funny) short rendition of “Jo Venglos’ claret and blue army” and “bosko, bosko balaban”.
If I recall it was led by some bloke who around the time had a jacket that looked like it was covered in pigeon shit. My dad was quite annoyed, I was about 17 and mortified.
Anyhow my general point is the whole come from blues issue might have been amongst a minority but it was a large one at the time.
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I remember my dad trying to get “Alex Mcleish’s claret and blue army going” from K5 on his first game and getting told to f-off, shouting get behind the manager and receiving various iterations of not behind a bluenose - followed by an (admittedly quite funny) short rendition of “Jo Venglos’ claret and blue army” and “bosko, bosko balaban”.
If I recall it was led by some bloke who around the time had a jacket that looked like it was covered in pigeon shit. My dad was quite annoyed, I was about 17 and mortified.
Anyhow my general point is the whole come from blues issue might have been amongst a minority but it was a large one at the time.
It didn't help the denials when "Bluenose scum not welcome here" or something similar was painted outside Bodymoor.
I've always thought the reason he was appointed might have been that Lerner felt betrayed by O'Neill and Houlier so he wanted a manager he could trust. I think it was Hooky who said Lerner had been impressed by McLeish's grace in defeat the previous season.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
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The Ferguson endorsement....what a naive tool, Lerner was...
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale. Add to that an expensive divorce, he was in Xia territory.
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Quite simply the worst decision during my time supporting the club. Still baffling to think who thought that was a good idea over a decade later.
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Quite simply the worst decision during my time supporting the club. Still baffling to think who thought that was a good idea over a decade later.
Not to defend the job he did with us, but he had a decent record in Scotland and he'd just won a trophy with SHA.
Five years of chronic underinvestment and a relegation later, Lerner sold us to a fraud who nearly destroyed the club.
McLeish was shite, but in managerial appointments alone, we've had at least three worse than him since.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale.
Yes, agreed. Rich as he no doubt remains, losing 80% of a fortune must make you think.
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I’ll never forget hearing the news of his appointment; made my blood run cold.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale. Add to that an expensive divorce, he was in Xia territory.
I don't think it was him that lost the money but rather the family trust, and apparently the divorce wasn't particularly expensive. There were a lot of reasons why he gave up but one of them was that his extended family weren't happy about their fortune being wasted on that soccerball team.
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Fans of other teams used to say ‘you don’t like him because he’s ex Blues’ and it wasn’t that. It was because he was an uninspiring manager with a uber-defensive style. I remember us trying to keep the ball by the corner flag at Lotus Road with ten minutes to go ffs!
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I think his first game in charge other than pre-season friendlies was away to Fulham which ended scoreless, I thought then is this as good as it's going to get? As many have said before, a nice man but poor manager. I'd still like to meet him though as I bear him no ill will.
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Fans of other teams used to say ‘you don’t like him because he’s ex Blues’ and it wasn’t that. It was because he was an uninspiring manager with a uber-defensive style. I remember us trying to keep the ball by the corner flag at Lotus Road with ten minutes to go ffs!
With a lot of supporters ‘ ex blues’ was the case.
He tried to win fans over by trying not to lose, rather than going out to win.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale. Add to that an expensive divorce, he was in Xia territory.
I think the divorce was probably the biggest factor in his dereliction of duty.
I think Lerner gets a pretty bad rap sometimes.
Yes, it ended poorly, due to circumstance, & he sold to an absolute charlatan, but we had a lot of fun in those three years we finished 6th & got to the cup final.
I don't think things would have been nearly anywhere near as bad if he hadnt gone through his divorce.
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Fans of other teams used to say ‘you don’t like him because he’s ex Blues’ and it wasn’t that. It was because he was an uninspiring manager with a uber-defensive style. I remember us trying to keep the ball by the corner flag at Lotus Road with ten minutes to go ffs!
If our manager ever again clenches a raised fist to the air/exec boxes at Villa Park following a home draw against Stoke City, I will quit this club.
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Sorry although not there in person I must be a Dullard as I thought it was an April fool (late) or other Joke
Worst appointment in memory and we have had many crap ones.
Common sense prevailed in that he only lasted 1 season
Decent guy and I would buy him a pint, but never going to work out.
Shit, checking his Wiki page he is younger than me
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12 years ago today he was appointed.
What a weird period that was.
Wanted Martinez but he didn't even want to be interviewed. McClaren did get interviewed but then once that leaked we scrapped the idea of appointing him (and given he went to Forest and was sacked by early October he'd have been worse than McLeish).
Then we actually appointed Alex McLeish....
Always good to see in these long forgotten threads going back to page 1 and seeing what the views were, Paulie sums it perfectly as that was the new reality for us at the time, not Lerner and co just taking a breather for a year before re-grouping.
Also ironic he mentions Everton and Benitez and Ancelotti being linked to us. Both would manage Everton and now they're pretty much in same position as we were in 2011.
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If he'd been any good and Small Heath had wanted to keep him, we'd have been perfectly happy to steal him.
As it was, he was shite, and they were perfectly happy for us to take him off their hands.
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The only Villa manager who would park the bus for a low scoring defeat. No wonder he punched the air after a home draw with Stoke.
As I remember, Lerner said we looked at two dozen managers before getting McLeish. Martinez was one so who on earth were the other twenty two.
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How the club thought…I know let’s give the job to a bloke who has just been relegated is still mind-boggling. Forget he came from Castle Greyskull, the fact we awarded his failure was crazy.
As a bloke, didn’t mind him, thought he was a decent chap.
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Looking back with hindsight though, it was clear that Lerner's heart wasn't in it any more at the point when O'Neill left. His replacement was the semi-retired Houllier which was a crazy choice at the time, and then Houllier's replacement was another incredibly stupid decision. I imagine the main reason in Lerner's mind was that McLeish would be cheap and grateful for the job. Blues would have been grateful to get his salary off the wage bill following relegation, and he'd have been happy to stay in the Premier League. I think Wigan away and Bolton at home was the most hostile I can remember fans being towards a manager, ever.
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Looking back with hindsight though, it was clear that Lerner's heart wasn't in it any more at the point when O'Neill left. His replacement was the semi-retired Houllier which was a crazy choice at the time, and then Houllier's replacement was another incredibly stupid decision. I imagine the main reason in Lerner's mind was that McLeish would be cheap and grateful for the job. Blues would have been grateful to get his salary off the wage bill following relegation, and he'd have been happy to stay in the Premier League. I think Wigan away and Bolton at home was the most hostile I can remember fans being towards a manager, ever.
I think those Wigan and Bolton reactions were a whole season of pent up frustration coming out Risso. For the main Villa fans are pretty reasonable about Managerial appointments even if they have significant misgivings as most people take the view of we’ll give them a chance. As the season progressed it just seemed to be death by boredom and for the away fans the dam broke at Wigan (I was there and it was the quite obvious settle for a point substitutions that did it) and for the home fans getting beat by Bolton who were relegated was the final straw. In hindsight we were far too forgiving of Lerner despite at that point his largesse.
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When you consider how much money we'd spent on players in the 5 or so years before the Bolton game, and then look at the side and sub bench for the Bolton game, it's staggering. The 7 subs were 6 players through the academy and Guzan, who was young and inexperienced at the time.
And then the starting 11 was another 5 academy players, plus Given, Warnock, Hutton, Cuellar, Zog and Heskey.
How the fuck do you spend a fortune over 5 years and end up with that 18 on a match day!
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Bolton was one of the weirdest games I've ever seen. I've said before that I had to leave at half-time when we were well on top. We scored just as I got home and that should have been game over. I dropped my H&V bag, picked up a suitcase and got back in the car. I'd only been away five minutes maximum and in that time we'd gone 2-1 down while Paul Franks was hyperventilating.
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When you consider how much money we'd spent on players in the 5 or so years before the Bolton game, and then look at the side and sub bench for the Bolton game, it's staggering. The 7 subs were 6 players through the academy and Guzan, who was young and inexperienced at the time.
And then the starting 11 was another 5 academy players, plus Given, Warnock, Hutton, Cuellar, Zog and Heskey.
How the fuck do you spend a fortune over 5 years and end up with that 18 on a match day!
Because O'Neill always built his castles on sand.
That way, when it all collapses, his reputation was protected & people would go on about "what a great job" he did.
He, along with other managers of his ilk, like Redknapp for example, managed the clubs for their own time at the club & their own time alone.
Which is why most clubs suffered after they left.
Not because of the talent of the managers, but because they had build squads to collapse on the next manager.
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When you consider how much money we'd spent on players in the 5 or so years before the Bolton game, and then look at the side and sub bench for the Bolton game, it's staggering. The 7 subs were 6 players through the academy and Guzan, who was young and inexperienced at the time.
And then the starting 11 was another 5 academy players, plus Given, Warnock, Hutton, Cuellar, Zog and Heskey.
How the fuck do you spend a fortune over 5 years and end up with that 18 on a match day!
It was an incredibly rapid dismantling. The good players we had could see the writing on the wall, and were desperate to get away. Between August 2010 and Aug 2011 we lost Milner, Ashley Young, Reo-Coker, Friedel, Downing, Carew and Luke Young. Unfortunately, the players we brought in were mostly all hopeless, eg N'Zogbia, Makoun and Ireland, and we had to supplement them with the likes of Lichaj and Herd etc.
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Looking back with hindsight though, it was clear that Lerner's heart wasn't in it any more at the point when O'Neill left. His replacement was the semi-retired Houllier which was a crazy choice at the time, and then Houllier's replacement was another incredibly stupid decision. I imagine the main reason in Lerner's mind was that McLeish would be cheap and grateful for the job. Blues would have been grateful to get his salary off the wage bill following relegation, and he'd have been happy to stay in the Premier League. I think Wigan away and Bolton at home was the most hostile I can remember fans being towards a manager, ever.
McLeish was was one of the highest earning managers in the world whilst he was here. Certainly in the top 20, possibly to 10. It was a lazy appointment based on the fact he won a trophy with a Blues team IMO
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Looking back with hindsight though, it was clear that Lerner's heart wasn't in it any more at the point when O'Neill left. His replacement was the semi-retired Houllier which was a crazy choice at the time, and then Houllier's replacement was another incredibly stupid decision. I imagine the main reason in Lerner's mind was that McLeish would be cheap and grateful for the job. Blues would have been grateful to get his salary off the wage bill following relegation, and he'd have been happy to stay in the Premier League. I think Wigan away and Bolton at home was the most hostile I can remember fans being towards a manager, ever.
McLeish was was one of the highest earning managers in the world whilst he was here. Certainly in the top 20, possibly to 10. It was a lazy appointment based on the fact he won a trophy with a Blues team IMO
..... on a budget.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale. Add to that an expensive divorce, he was in Xia territory.
I think the divorce was probably the biggest factor in his dereliction of duty.
I think Lerner gets a pretty bad rap sometimes.
Yes, it ended poorly, due to circumstance, & he sold to an absolute charlatan, but we had a lot of fun in those three years we finished 6th & got to the cup final.
I don't think things would have been nearly anywhere near as bad if he hadnt gone through his divorce.
He, or his family trust, had BoA shares worth about $2.5billion one minute and $600m the next. I doubt his divorce cost anywhere near that.
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Lerner being impressed by a nice loser is almost poetic.
I'm still convinced the share value of Bank of America was the biggest reason for Lerner's decision to focus beyond B6. If memory serves he lost about 80% of the value of the family credit card sale. Add to that an expensive divorce, he was in Xia territory.
I think the divorce was probably the biggest factor in his dereliction of duty.
I think Lerner gets a pretty bad rap sometimes.
Yes, it ended poorly, due to circumstance, & he sold to an absolute charlatan, but we had a lot of fun in those three years we finished 6th & got to the cup final.
I don't think things would have been nearly anywhere near as bad if he hadnt gone through his divorce.
He, or his family trust, had BoA shares worth about $2.5billion one minute and $600m the next. I doubt his divorce cost anywhere near that.
Yep, that's one of the reasons for having a trust, keeps assets out of the hands of ex spouses.