Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Off Topic => Sports Arena => Topic started by: Dave Summers on August 05, 2011, 01:05:40 PM
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As the Rugby World Cup is just around the corner and the World Cup warm up games start tomorrow, I thought I would start a new topic dedicated to this event.
I'm lucky enough to have a ticket for the match at Twickenham tomorrow and a bit of a lifelong ambition is fulfilled as I am taking my daughter to her first game.
Looking at the England team, am very excited to see how our antipodean combination of Flutey and Tuilagi go. I feel they bring much more flair and dynamism than Hape and Tindall, so am hoping they go well tomorrow.
Our forwards will, as usual, be big and strong and ought to secure plenty of ball. It's what we do with it, that then concerns me. Would like to see Sharples get a run out and indeed play well enough to get into the final squad instead of Banahan.
Either way, us usual, it will be a good day out in some decent weather for a change. If anyone else is going, I will be parked up outside the Barmy Arms (pub by the river in
Twickenham town centre with my wife and daughter trying not to look too bored ;)
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I'm looking forward to the World Cup, I think England's team is actually building to the World Cup in 4 years. But we tend to gain momentum in the World Cup, and we've got a better side than the last time we reached the final so should be interested.
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I'm there tomorrow too. Got a box with O2 so beer and curry all the way.
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I am going tomorrow. I have started to become quite optimistic about our chances actually, going to 20 notes on us to win it. Put Thomson and Shaw on when playing the big physical packs for a bit of grunt, and that team will score tries. Obviously four years time probably more realistic, but with Tuillangi potentially coming through suddenly our centre issue looks promising. The following first 15 looks good on paper.
1) Stevens / Cole
2) Thomson / Hartley
3) Sheridan
4) Shaw / Lawes
5) Palmer
6) Croft
7) Moody / Wood
8) Easter / Haskell
9) Youngs
10) Flood
11) Ashton
12) Tuilangi
13) Tindell / Flutey
14) Cueto
15) Foden
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Am I the only one who finds the shipping in of "English" residents such as Tuilangi is destroying any national pride you may have for rugby?Not 100% sure but did'nt we play an international with seven non English players?I know New Zealand have been doing it for years with the Samoans but does'nt make it right or fair.
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Not a big rugby fan but if I was it wouldn't bother me too much.
I love my cricket and England are half South African, doesn't dim my pride one bit.
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Dave, I'll be in the Barmy Arms from 12, I'll keep an eye out. This will be my first England game.
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The Groups...
Pool A
New Zealand, France, Tonga, Canada, Japan
Pool B
Argentina, England, Scotland, Georgia, Romania
Pool C
Australia, Ireland, Italy, Russia, United States
Pool D
South Africa, Wales, Fiji, Manu Samoa, Namibia
Top two go through.
I'd say New Zealand, France, England, Australia, Ireland and South Africa are more-or-less certain to qualify.
The main questions will be who comes second out of Argentina/Scotland and Wales/Fiji.
New Zealand should win, but will they bottle it again? I'll be happy if any Northern Hemisphere team wins it, even if that means France.
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I can't say I like what Western Samoa have changed their name to, glory-hunting scummers!
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Not a big rugby fan but if I was it wouldn't bother me too much.
I love my cricket and England are half South African, doesn't dim my pride one bit.
does not make it right either but it is something I will be bringing up in cricket thread also.
does also look by reaction it something I alone care about so go "england".
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Am I the only one who finds the shipping in of "English" residents such as Tuilangi is destroying any national pride you may have for rugby?Not 100% sure but did'nt we play an international with seven non English players?I know New Zealand have been doing it for years with the Samoans but does'nt make it right or fair.
They all do it. England, Wales, NZ (with Samoans, Tongans and Fijians), Australia, France. The only ones who don't seem to do it is South Africa.
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I'm not looking forward to the Rugby World Cup, I'm sick of it already over here. Nothing would amuse me more than to see the AB's choke again (even though I live here). It would be great to see England in the final against anyone but the AB's wearing their black kit, as I think it would make the heads of 90% of people over here explode :D ;D
There has been forums over here about Englands Black kit with people thinking it is insulting to the All Blacks, NZ, Maori etc, etc. What a crock of shit.
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I would love it if the All Blacks choked again.
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It's great to have Stevens back, I think England have a really exciting squad. I'm interested to see Tuilagi.
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I would love it if the All Blacks choked again.
Me too, but I'd rather they won it than the Aussies or South Africa.
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Not a big rugby fan but if I was it wouldn't bother me too much.
I love my cricket and England are half South African, doesn't dim my pride one bit.
Same here.
It has happened in Cricket for years and also in Rugby. There have been a few instances in football too such as John Barnes and Owen Hargreaves. I've never had a problem with it. The individuals concerned make a decision to represent England and I don't have any issues with that.
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It is potentially an exciting squad although that is partly because there are a few raw youngsters that have potential to grow (where gave we heard that before?).
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Tuilagi has served his one match ban for physical assault and been rewarded with an Engalnd call up. If anyone can explain to me under what criteria you'd even select Banahan over Simpson-Daniel I'd appreciate it. Unless its based on having a name similar to a cartoon superhero voiced by the Goodies.
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I'm not looking forward to the Rugby World Cup, I'm sick of it already over here. Nothing would amuse me more than to see the AB's choke again (even though I live here). It would be great to see England in the final against anyone but the AB's wearing their black kit, as I think it would make the heads of 90% of people over here explode :D ;D
There has been forums over here about Englands Black kit with people thinking it is insulting to the All Blacks, NZ, Maori etc, etc. What a crock of shit.
I'm not a big fan myself, but I heard about this story and it galled me a bit. It's ok for them to wear white as a change kit, but for us to wear black?
Talk about pretentious, I wouldn't mind but they've never won fuck all apart from friendlies.
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I'm not looking forward to the Rugby World Cup, I'm sick of it already over here. Nothing would amuse me more than to see the AB's choke again (even though I live here). It would be great to see England in the final against anyone but the AB's wearing their black kit, as I think it would make the heads of 90% of people over here explode :D ;D
There has been forums over here about Englands Black kit with people thinking it is insulting to the All Blacks, NZ, Maori etc, etc. What a crock of shit.
I'm not a big fan myself, but I heard about this story and it galled me a bit. It's ok for them to wear white as a change kit, but for us to wear black?
Talk about pretentious, I wouldn't mind but they've never won fuck all apart from friendlies.
Well they did win the first World Cup, but we'll gloss over that :-
Saw quite a few black shirts out and about at the game yesterday and I thought they looked very smart. So much so, I'm about to go out and get one. Unfortunately the body of a 46 yr old won't quite squeeze into the skin tight replica one, so I'll have to go for something with a bit (ahem) more give in it. I totally agree about the AB's, they are so up themselves and precious about everything from the colour black, I didn't realise they had a copyright on that, to the bloody Haka, that seems to go on for about 10 mins every feckin time they perform it, with some sort of new angle (or should I say eeeeeeeeeengle) to it !!!!.
Anyway on to the game yesterday and for me very disappointing and although England won, there was no glory in it. I couldn't believe they made Wilkinson man of the match. Yes, I know and the whole country knows that he can kick and as usual yesterday, he did it very well. BUT, we have gone backwards since the 6 Nations with that performance, in terms of attacking. The one time that we put Tuilagi in space, he scored. For me, and I realise I may be in a minority of one in the whole of England here, Wilkinson stands far too deep, he doesn't attack the line, he crabs across and almost always gives man and ball to his centres. I don't think Flood is world class, but at least he commits the defence. Having watched the U20's in their World Cup, playing a brand of Rugby the seniors can only dream about, I am not sure what happens to them when they step up a level. I know it's harder but surely the same principles apply. As an aside, look out for George Ford at 10 in the future, quality player.
I agree with the poster earlier about Banahan and Sinbad and I would also add Cueto and Sharples in that equation too. As it stands at the moment, I would take Sharples, Ashton, Monye and probably Banahan as the wings, but after his performance yesterday, I would think about Armitage playing on the wing. He was excellent.
I suppose playing badly and winnig is a good sign and it was far closer to Wales 1st XV than England's so we will see what next Saturday brings. I will be at Fulham, so will Sky + it, so anyone seeing me in P5, please don't tell me the score. Fat chance huh :-) :)
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I'm not looking forward to the Rugby World Cup, I'm sick of it already over here. Nothing would amuse me more than to see the AB's choke again (even though I live here). It would be great to see England in the final against anyone but the AB's wearing their black kit, as I think it would make the heads of 90% of people over here explode :D ;D
There has been forums over here about Englands Black kit with people thinking it is insulting to the All Blacks, NZ, Maori etc, etc. What a crock of shit.
I'm not a big fan myself, but I heard about this story and it galled me a bit. It's ok for them to wear white as a change kit, but for us to wear black?
Talk about pretentious, I wouldn't mind but they've never won fuck all apart from friendlies.
Well they did win the first World Cup, but we'll gloss over that :-
Saw quite a few black shirts out and about at the game yesterday and I thought they looked very smart. So much so, I'm about to go out and get one. Unfortunately the body of a 46 yr old won't quite squeeze into the skin tight replica one, so I'll have to go for something with a bit (ahem) more give in it. I totally agree about the AB's, they are so up themselves and precious about everything from the colour black, I didn't realise they had a copyright on that, to the bloody Haka, that seems to go on for about 10 mins every feckin time they perform it, with some sort of new angle (or should I say eeeeeeeeeengle) to it !!!!.
Anyway on to the game yesterday and for me very disappointing and although England won, there was no glory in it. I couldn't believe they made Wilkinson man of the match. Yes, I know and the whole country knows that he can kick and as usual yesterday, he did it very well. BUT, we have gone backwards since the 6 Nations with that performance, in terms of attacking. The one time that we put Tuilagi in space, he scored. For me, and I realise I may be in a minority of one in the whole of England here, Wilkinson stands far too deep, he doesn't attack the line, he crabs across and almost always gives man and ball to his centres. I don't think Flood is world class, but at least he commits the defence. Having watched the U20's in their World Cup, playing a brand of Rugby the seniors can only dream about, I am not sure what happens to them when they step up a level. I know it's harder but surely the same principles apply. As an aside, look out for George Ford at 10 in the future, quality player.
I agree with the poster earlier about Banahan and Sinbad and I would also add Cueto and Sharples in that equation too. As it stands at the moment, I would take Sharples, Ashton, Monye and probably Banahan as the wings, but after his performance yesterday, I would think about Armitage playing on the wing. He was excellent.
I suppose playing badly and winnig is a good sign and it was far closer to Wales 1st XV than England's so we will see what next Saturday brings. I will be at Fulham, so will Sky + it, so anyone seeing me in P5, please don't tell me the score. Fat chance huh :-) :)
I wouldn't worry too much about the performance, it was a very experimental side and it was the first game after a long break.
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To be honest I can't see past the All Blacks in their own country. Thats unless they bump into the French on a bad day/Gallic brillance.
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It all depends on how the cope with the pressure. Sure they should win, but what happens if the game enters the last quarter and it gets cagey.
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If it gets tight the whole country will shit a brick. Our reserves did ok on Saturday against most of the Welsh first team.
And at least our foreigners qualify through residency rather than the bloody All Black trials.
Tuilagi is a cheating bastard who shouldn't have been considered and they would have to be bonkers not to take a fit Sinbad.
I am looking forward to this world cup!
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Not a big Rubgy Union fan, but I enjoy watching the World Cup.
Everyone seems to be tipping New Zealand, are Scotland not fancied this time around then? ::)
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Not a big Rubgy Union fan, but I enjoy watching the World Cup.
Everyone seems to be tipping New Zealand, are Scotland not fancied this time around then? ::)
Like it
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Bet365...
New Zealand 8/13
Australia 7/2
South Africa 7
England 10
France 14
Ireland 28
Wales 66
Argentina 125
Scotland 150
Samoa 200
Italy 500
Fiji 500
Tonga 1,000
Canada 2,000
USA 2,000
Japan 2,000
Georgia 5,000
Namibia 5,000
Romania 5,000
Russia 5,000
Tempted to stick a tenner on France, seem the best value odds according to my limited understanding of the sport.
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South Africa are my bet
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Well I can select a few players who should be left out by England. Banahan, Tindall, Hape, Deacon.
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If it gets tight the whole country will shit a brick. Our reserves did ok on Saturday against most of the Welsh first team.
And at least our foreigners qualify through residency rather than the bloody All Black trials.
Tuilagi is a cheating bastard who shouldn't have been considered and they would have to be bonkers not to take a fit Sinbad.
I am looking forward to this world cup!
Bananaman, Happy, Cweto. The southern hemisphere teams must be laughing into their stubbies. Last thing I want is the Glos boys playing this turgid brand of cagey rugby. Charlie Sharples is better off back at Kingholm learning his trade. Giving them Tindall is a sacrifice worth making.
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I would sooner none of them played internationally, just like the Villa to be honest.
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This tool (http://www.theworldcupofrugby.com/predictor/) is quite handy for working out who is likely to play who in the knock-out stages. You can predict the outcome and impress your friends. Ahem.
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That's a very conservative selection for the final 30 from Johnson. A real lack of creativity in the backs as well.
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This tool (http://www.theworldcupofrugby.com/predictor/) is quite handy for working out who is likely to play who in the knock-out stages. You can predict the outcome and impress your friends. Ahem.
Same as last World Cup then, we will play the French in the 2nd round and the Aussies in the Semis.
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That's a very conservative selection for the final 30 from Johnson. A real lack of creativity in the backs as well.
Yeah - but look at the team that got us to the final four years ago. That team had no right to be there and nearly one the damn thing.
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We have a better team than 4 years ago, I really hope Tuilagi gets a chance in the centre. I think that is comfortably our weakest area.
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Tuilagi has to start for us.
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Tuilagi has to start for us.
Agreed, although he does look a bit of a walking red card from time to time. If someone can get him to channel his aggression then he'll be some weapon.
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Tuilagi has been an absolute beast in all aspects of this game.
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Tuilagi is a thug what should have been banned for a very long time for assaulting Aston in the play-off semis. Funnily enough the Leceister mafia made sure he only served a one game ban. Also the secrets out - he's not English.
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Anyone having a bet?
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The Aussies will win this.
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Argies to reach the semis is 16/1 on skybet surely some mistake.
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It's because they'd be playing France or New Zealand in the quarters.
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England: Ben Foden, Chris Ashton, Manu Tuilagi, Mike Tindall (captain), Delon Armitage, Jonny Wilkinson, Richard Wigglesworth, Andrew Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole, Louis Deacon, Courtney Lawes, Tom Croft, James Haskell, Nick Easter.
Replacements: Dylan Hartley, Matt Stevens, Tom Palmer, Tom Wood, Ben Youngs, Toby Flood, Matt Banahan.
Runners and riders for the Argentina game on Saturday. Really looking forward to this World Cup now and quietly fancy our chances to go a long way.
Was discussing the team with a colleague in the office and it suddenly hit home when I looked at the bench and the players not in the 22, how much different it was in 03. Back then we could and did I think, make 15 changes without affecting us. People like Stuart Abbott/Balshaw/Gomarsall etc were all top class players. We just haven't got that strength in depth with this party of players.
Delighted that Armitage is in, as he has the gas that Cueto just doesn't have and also the skill level that Banahan will never have. I hope to christ that none of the back three get injured though, as they have to stay together for all the big games.
We do have lots of choice in the front 5 mind, but again the lack of an out and out 7 will bite us on the arse I believe at some point.
Hoping Youngs will get a run out and then resume his place in the team for the next game. I would personally always play Flood ahead of Wilko, as I believe he gets more out of the back three, but I can see why Johnno has gone down the route he has.
All in all, I can see us topping the pool. The French will implode against us (that's one game I would play Jonny in, they quiver at the sight of his left foot) in the Quarters and then we are hopefully into Australia in the last four and anything can happen.
Bring it on !!! Enjoy all
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Why is it taking so long to play this RWC?
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If you mean why are there such long gaps between matches, it's because the players need recovery time. You can't play two matches in three days at this level of intensity.
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I am off out with my Kiwi former boss next week. I may stir the pot a bit.
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If you mean why are there such long gaps between matches, it's because the players need recovery time. You can't play two matches in three days at this level of intensity.
Lightweights! ;)
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From the bits of NZ v Tonga that I saw/heard, NZ looked excellent in the first half but Tonga put up a pretty good display in the second
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Can't see past a back to back win for SA.
England & Oz to the semis & the All Blacks to blow up at some point against France maybe just like in 07.
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I think it's 1 from england, NZ or australia, none of the other eurpean sides impress me and SA look past it and too many of their players have had big injury troubles in the last 2 years.
From today I wasn't overly impressed with NZ, I thought Tonga just got their gameplan totally wrong and gave the all black backs too much space, they were just trying to pound them up front and stop the supply. Once they started defending the space NZ ran out of ideas and it became a much closer game. I think NZ had it in them to step up if they needed to but I certainly didn't see anything to justify the ludicrous odds they have to be the winners.
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Japan really giving the French a game
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Argies have been dominating England in the tight but Englands backs look better when they get a chance to run.
Contemponi is off with rib damage so England should be able to take over now.
The Raging Bull is terrible as a co-commentator
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Really poor from England so far. Unacceptably so. They've had a long time to prepare and this is the shit they come up with.
A highly frustrating half of rugby. Made even harder to watch by a referee who is doing all in his power to stop the game from flowing.
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Its not the Ref, it's the England players failure to grasp some of the basic laws of the game, like not diving on the floor at a ruck and failing to release the ball when tackled
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Its not the Ref, it's the England players failure to grasp some of the basic laws of the game, like not diving on the floor at a ruck and failing to release the ball when tackled
There was one especially bad. Ashton was in no way tackled, was still making forward momentum, then released the ball as soon as he was tackled. The Ref saw the flimsy attempt by the first Argentinian as a completed tackle.
I also think the ref hasn't been aware to the tactics of the Argentine players at rucks, which has been to drag English players competing fairly for the ball off their feet.
Ref aside though, If England don't dramatically improve, they will lose this game and probably lose to a poor Scotland team aswell.
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If anything, England are looking worse in the second half.
They're really missing Ben Youngs
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Re the Ashton incident, I thought that he was tackled
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If anything, England are looking worse in the second half.
They're really missing Ben Youngs
Definitely.
Youngs and Flood would change the whole dynamic.
Wilkinson is kicking and playing poorly.
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England's kit suppliers are going to get some stick over the peeling numbers
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This is getting embarrassing now.
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This is fucking awful.
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Steve Thompson kills every move that he gets involved in. I thought that he was a liability in the last WC and he's not improved.
Youngs on at last
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Blimey, 5 seconds after coming on, Youngs shows more enterprise and ambition than the rest of the team in 50 minutes.
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There you go, Youngs is on for just a few seconds and England already look better
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FFS Wilkinson.
Need to get him off.
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Where on earth is that enterprising, ambitious, entertaining, creative and exhilarating England side that destroyed Australia and looked so good in the 6 nations?
How the hell have we gone so far backwards in such a short space of time?
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And there's your first streaker of the RWC
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This is fucking pathetic.
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This is like watching a Lydney v Berry Hill game from the 1980's. It's like modern running rugby never happened
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Right show some character at least now.
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Toby time ?
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Why the hell is Wilkinson still on the pitch?
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Has to be a booking. simply has to be.
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Is this Ref taking the piss?
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That is awful, just awful refereeing. He'd just warned Argentina about their penalty count.
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If Wilkinson can't kick he needs to come off.He offers nothing else.
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Blimey.
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Get in!!!
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Even Jonny today can't miss this conversion.
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Finally.
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What was I saying about Youngs?
If he's fully fit, why the feck wasn't he starting?
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Youngs has been our best player by such a long way, and hes only been on for 15 minutes.
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Youngs has been our best player by such a long way, and hes only been on for 15 minutes.
Totally agree as he has changed the pace and direction of our play.
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What was I saying about Youngs?
If he's fully fit, why the feck wasn't he starting?
It just looks as if they've abandoned the game plan that served them well in the autumn and six nations, and gone for a far more negative approach.
Thompson and Wilkinson, great players they have been, offer little to this current side. Get Flood, Youngs and Hartley back in and have a go.
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Still think we need another score. Can definitely see us giving away a penalty at some stage.
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That should be it now.
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We don't half like making it hard work.
A win is a win.
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Very poor performance, but it reads as a win in the table.
Thankfully now we have Romania and Georgia to play, (although on todays evidence, neither will be a given) before we have Scotland.
The game plan has to change. Against a decent side, (Argentina not bad, but nowhere near the force they were 4 years ago) that negative, turgid crap will see us beaten.
Get Thompson, Wilkinson and Wigglesworth out, Hartley, Flood and Youngs in and play with width and ambition. We have two high quality players in Foden and Ashton who are being completely wasted in our current scheme.
I suppose the only positives are the way that Youngs played and that we showed a little bit of character towards the end (although I suspect Argentina's poorer fitness levels had a good deal to do with that)
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Classic start to England World Cup bid, poor display but the win was what mattered.
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We will get refereed out of this if were not careful, southern hemisphere refs just don't get it.
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Brice Lawrence and Jonathan Kaplan are genuinely reprehensible officials.
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Brice Lawrence and Jonathan Kaplan are genuinely reprehensible officials.
Add any Irish official to that as well.
Dreadful game of rugby and as I said earlier in this thread, I fear we won't move forward until this whole obsession with Jonny is done and dusted. To be fair it wasn't just him, but the no 10 is the fulcrum of the team and sets the whole game plan up. He just stands too bloody deep and is giving his outside backs no chance whatsoever as they are getting ball well behind the gainline. For all Flood's faults, at least he stands flat and commits players and funnily enough, Ashton appears to see more of the ball as well.
Appears to me that half the team want to play one style of Rugby and the other half want to go fast and wide. At the moment, we aren't playing either very well.
Still, a win is a win and we have time to improve. We HAVE to improve
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Sorry but I don't agree with the criticism of today's Ref.
The teams were told prior to the tournament that the Refs would be looking at specific areas for offences (eg being offside or going to ground at a ruck).
England just kept on doing just that and were correctly penalised.
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They bloody weren't. And anyway, those two refs I mentioned are a pair of over officious, play to the crowd, wankers.
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Bryce Lawrence is an absolute shocker, so is the other Kiwi ref Steve Jones(I think). He's an absolute disgrace.
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Who was reffing the Scotland game last night? I thought he did well (And yes I was sad enough to stay up til 4 to watch it). Never liked Kaplan. Always seems to be a bit of a knob to me.
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It's strange most of the big sides are struggling a bit. As far as England go, I think people are getting a bit carried away because we've had by far the hardest first game(with the exception of Wales) and we got through it.
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It's strange most of the big sides are struggling a bit. As far as England go, I think people are getting a bit carried away because we've had by far the hardest first game(with the exception of Wales) and we got through it.
I would agree Paul and take into a/c the ref as well and a win is a win. I reckon the Argies may beat the Scots..........
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On the plus side, I don't think England can play that badly again this tournament.
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Uh oh, looks like the Forest's own Wayne Barnes is going to be at the centre of another refereeing controversy because he didn't ask for the TV official to look at whether James Hook's penalty went over.
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Really unlucky for Wales.
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I take it it went over?
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I take it it went over?
Nope it missed, nothing to see here, move along.
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England's games are all at a sensible hour on the weekend I note. Excellent.
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Yeah I had a look through the fixtures, I was pretty happy with that.
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Scotland have been utter shite so far today.
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Scotland have been utter shite so far today.
Just watched Argentina destroy Romania and I reckon they will do the same to Scotland.
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If Ireland win this, assuming New Zealand both win their groups, then the winner of the England group wouldn't have to play a Southern Hemisphere team until the Final.
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Ireland doing really well. Maybe the Southern Hemisphere isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. If Ireland win it throws this World Cup right open.
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Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
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Well I never. Ireland turned the convicts over.
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Brilliant. Just what this tournament needed.
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England have a great chance of winning this if they win the Group now. France, followed by Ireland/Wales/Fiji/Samoa for a place in the Final. They would then play one of New Zealand/Australia/South Africa who would be worn out after a brusing semi-final.
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Well done Ireland, great result
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Lousy TV coverage of England - Georgia. They missed one of the conversions because they were showing replays and for another they stopped the replay just in time to see the ball sail between the posts. Sort it out!!
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Lousy TV coverage of England - Georgia. They missed one of the conversions because they were showing replays and for another they stopped the replay just in time to see the ball sail between the posts. Sort it out!!
Also pisses me off when the commentators talk over what the Ref is saying in his mic to the Third Official too.
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Lousy TV coverage of England - Georgia. They missed one of the conversions because they were showing replays and for another they stopped the replay just in time to see the ball sail between the posts. Sort it out!!
Also pisses me off when the commentators talk over what the Ref is saying in his mic to the Third Official too.
Makes you realise how good the BBC 6 nations coverage is.
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Also how shit the sports coverage on ITV is full stop.
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Well we won the game, wasn't great. Foden and Haskell did well. We need to cut down on the stupid penalties if we are going to further in this competition.
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To be fair, when it comes to missing a conversion, is that ITV's or the host broadcaster's fault?
I agree that the commentary isn't much cop, though. As I said about Channel 4 and the World Athletics coverage, it is a pity that when it comes to flogging their TV rights, those doing the selling think only of the amount of dosh, not whether the winning bidders have got the necessary experience in covering the sport to do in justice. No amount of money in the bank will compensate a sport's governing body for people either not watching, or worse, ridiculing the presenters/commentators/coverage.
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To be fair, when it comes to missing a conversion, is that ITV's or the host broadcaster's fault?
I agree but you would have thought that a host broadcaster based in a Rugby hotbed would get the basics right!
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To be fair, when it comes to missing a conversion, is that ITV's or the host broadcaster's fault?
I agree but you would have thought that a host broadcaster based in a Rugby hotbed would get the basics right!
ITV will have their own replay machines so they can insert thier own replays of incidents of special interest to the UK. This could well have been their stuff up.
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To be fair, when it comes to missing a conversion, is that ITV's or the host broadcaster's fault?
I agree but you would have thought that a host broadcaster based in a Rugby hotbed would get the basics right!
ITV will have their own replay machines so they can insert thier own replays of incidents of special interest to the UK. This could well have been their stuff up.
It would have been. No problem with the coverage here. They don't show replays while someones lining up a conversion.
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What do we think of the Frenchies then?
Is it a great tactic or devaluing the competition?
I was looking forward to some Gallic flair & a great encounter with the All Blacks as I'm sure 60 odd thousand paying fans were, I'd be livid.
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What do we think of the Frenchies then?
Is it a great tactic or devaluing the competition?
I was looking forward to some Gallic flair & a great encounter with the All Blacks as I'm sure 60 odd thousand paying fans were, I'd be livid.
What have they done, Jon?
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Very good performance from england today, carried well, supported each other well and took the opportunities we had. If we can keep that up and do the same against the bigger sides we're in with a chance here.
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I was looking forward to some Gallic flair & a great encounter with the All Blacks as I'm sure 60 odd thousand paying fans were, I'd be livid.
I don't think you'll find too many complaining at the moment. (snigger)
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We did well today, all we could do really.
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The positives are that Englands performances have got better each week, and we started to play with a bit of ambition and width, albeit against a poor side.
Negatives are the lack of discipline and penalties still needlessly conceded, and missing a few opportunities to add more tries.
It is looking pretty open for us now though. The French don't look much cop and i'd expect us to have too much for them in the quarters.
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Whoops... Scotland lose to Argentina.
Should make next weekend interesting. If it was a dead rubber with both England and Scotland through, I'd have thought the English second XV would beat the Scottish XV. Now both sides, but particularly Scotland, can't afford to lose, so the idea of resting players no longer comes into it.
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The Scots would have to score 5 tries against us to get through, which isn't going to happen. Argentina will beat Georgia and I expect we'll win as well.
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Scotland don't need to score five tries. They need to win by more than seven and stop England scoring four tries... preventing them from getting a bonus point. They would then finish level on points and Scotland would finish above England on head-to-head.
The only way this wouldn't be enough is if all three countries finished level on points, in which case Scotland would likely miss out on points difference. For that to happen, Argentina would have to beat Georgia, but not get a bonus point. I suspect the Argies will be going all out for a bonus point to finish tp of the group and avoid New Zealand.
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I cannot see England losing to this poor Scotland team.
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I cannot see England losing to this poor Scotland team.
Correct, however, the point is we could have rested a bunch of players and now we can't against a side that always wants to give us a good kicking even if they are woefully lacking in skill.
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They've got a week till the next game anyway... how much rest do they need? I think England will want to win anyway to wrap up top spot.
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I don't think we should have been resting players for the Romania game anyway. We need to have the first 15 playing and getting used to playing together as much as we can.
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So to clarify I think we got it right!
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Right then, you sweaty bastards, you are going down in flames in the morning.
And my school buddy, the ever so English Simon Danielli, can piss off.
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Lets hope so, England step up and win well tomorrow.
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Fuck him, the spiky haired ******. He might be quicker than me but I was 25 goals a season better off.
And his missus is a horrible old snatch!
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AD, CD, your boys will take a hell of a beating.
P.s. By about 7 to 10 points!
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AD, CD, your boys will take a hell of a beating.
P.s. By about 7 to 10 points!
I just hope Scotland don't give away too many penalties.
With all England's ball-changing the game might not be finished before the Villa kick off.
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It's going to be a dull one, I reckon.
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Go on England
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Well, England don't look like pulling off the upset, losing 9-3 at HT and not being in it at all.
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Is this still going on? It's started months ago.
Who's winning?
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Scotland just ahead but not by enough points to go through.
Does the winner of this match get the Calcutta Cup?
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Boooo.
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I hate the last five minutes of football and rugby matches. The baddies always score.
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Home tae think again
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Thank God for that. The tension was unbearable.
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Scotland played well. Some of their handling was excellent and at times they played some excellent flowing Rugby.
England really didn't turn up. Tuilagi and Armitage were excellent but the planning and execution of the forward play was non-existent. We lacked leadership and direction and must stop giving away stupid penalties.
The French are next up who should not play as poorly as they did against Tonga. England must improve to have any chance.
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Ugly but epic as the commentator said. I felt all through the second half that England would get an opportunity. Think he got it wrong when he said they'd settled for the defeat with the penalty into the corner at the end, I read it as us wanting the try to win it rather than 3 points for a draw.
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That was like watching Berry Hill v Cinderford back in the 1980's.
England are going to get hammered in the QF
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That was like watching Berry Hill v Cinderford back in the 1980's.
England are going to get hammered in the QF
Nah, France are shit.
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Scotland did well enough, it's just a shame we never ever score a try. We were unlucky to get such a tough group but still, I wouldn't get rid of Robinson as I reckon there's been some improvement over the last few years. Hopefully we can at least be competitive in the Six Nations now.
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Phew. No chance will England get hammered in the quarter final, one chance for a try and scored.
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Thank fuck for that. A lack of intensity and we kept kicking stupid ball away.
On the bright side, we have won all of our pool games and Mr English Danielli looked pissed off at the end. I will have to text him later.
The Frogs in the quarters is very winnable we just need to follow the normal routine.
Get your nose in front early, squeeze them up front and watch them implode.
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Wilkinson needs to sort out his game management.
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They'll drop Wilkinson, if they have any sense.
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Not against the frogs they won't. Him and them have history.
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I hope Wilkinson gets fined for those awful drop goal attempts when we had an attack on! And I thought Youngs was also very poor.
Anyway, the QF is very winnable, with the French rugby team taking inspiration from their football team in SA 2010
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Didn't see it but glad we beat the jocks!
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Dan Carter has been ruled out of the rest of the World Cup after doing hi groin in training.
Is this the start of New Zealand blowing it again ?
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Dan Carter has been ruled out of the rest of the World Cup after doing hi groin in training.
Is this the start of New Zealand blowing it again ?
I'm sure they're are fully aware, but that is a massive massive blow to the All Blacks. Carter is an incredible player, and I don't think their back up fly halves are up to that much. They're still a very good side, but his loss will have a huge impact.
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What's this about the trio being reprimanded and tindell not telling the truth?
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England really have become pantomime villains at this world cup.
I think thats great.
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England are going to get hammered in the QF
I think France are going get hammered.
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England really have become pantomime villains at this world cup.
I think thats great.
Yep I love it, people can't handle the fact that England can be below par and win. If we play our best we are a match for anyone. Also this business that we can't play expansive stuff is bollocks, people obviously didn't watch us against Australia last autumn.
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Not against the frogs they won't. Him and them have history.
I said it at the start of this thread and I'll repeat it here, we have to stop this obsession with Jonny or we will never move on. He has started three games now in this tournament and for me hasn't helped us in any way at all. I can accept that he is in for his kicking, but when that fails as it has all tournament, then he should be hooked.
I couldn't believe Dallaglio saying yesterday that "well Jonny won us the semi in 2003, so I'd pick him". FFS, this is 2011 not 2003, he has been a great player, best fly half I have seen play for England, but hasn't played at that level for sometime now. He is obsessed with drop goals to the point of stupidity, for example trying to hit a drop goal when we turned the ball over 5 metres from the try line and had an overlap.
Apart from the kicking, it's his positioning in the fact that he is so deep in the pocket we are always starting from behind the gainline. We have Tuilagi, Ashton, Armitage (Cueto) and Foden who need quick ball and need it on the gainline. They aren't being noticed in this World Cup because we are not getting the ball to them.
Anyway, rant over. We will beat the French next weekend and then play I think Wales, but it will be massively tight their game v Ireland. If that happens, we CAN'T lose the semi :-)
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I'd definitely play Flood. His kicking is on a par with present day Wilkinson.
Flood and Youngs have an excellent understanding, and Flood takes the ball flatter, making our backs play much more threatening.
I'll be suprised if they move away from Wilkinson now though.
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I didn't say they shouldn't drop Wilkinson, just they won't. I would play Flood every time. Looks like he might be out injured now anyway.
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Armitage is banned for 1 match
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Not against the frogs they won't. Him and them have history.
I said it at the start of this thread and I'll repeat it here, we have to stop this obsession with Jonny or we will never move on. He has started three games now in this tournament and for me hasn't helped us in any way at all. I can accept that he is in for his kicking, but when that fails as it has all tournament, then he should be hooked.
I couldn't believe Dallaglio saying yesterday that "well Jonny won us the semi in 2003, so I'd pick him". FFS, this is 2011 not 2003, he has been a great player, best fly half I have seen play for England, but hasn't played at that level for sometime now. He is obsessed with drop goals to the point of stupidity, for example trying to hit a drop goal when we turned the ball over 5 metres from the try line and had an overlap.
Apart from the kicking, it's his positioning in the fact that he is so deep in the pocket we are always starting from behind the gainline. We have Tuilagi, Ashton, Armitage (Cueto) and Foden who need quick ball and need it on the gainline. They aren't being noticed in this World Cup because we are not getting the ball to them.
Anyway, rant over. We will beat the French next weekend and then play I think Wales, but it will be massively tight their game v Ireland. If that happens, we CAN'T lose the semi :-)
Exactly this. If the ball ever gets passed through both Wilkinson and Tindal then our creative platers are so far behind the gain line that they're useless.
My other rant from saturday is the ITV commentators. I realise that hype and hyperbole are an important part of any world cup but they seem to lack any ability to discuss tactics.
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Ah good Steve Walsh refereeing us, a man who has been proven to dislike England. He is a dreadful dreadful ref.
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Wilkinson and Flood both start then. Predictions for who is going through? I will go England, Wales, Australia and New Zealand.
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I'm happy Flood starts at centre, because hopefully he'll get more ball to Tuilagi and he's a much more creative force as well as a kicking option. I think England(hope!), Ireland, South Africa, New Zealand.
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Wilkinson and Flood both start then. Predictions for who is going through? I will go England, Wales, Australia and New Zealand.
I'm glad Flood is playing, although what Hape must think of it all would be quite interesting?. As I said above, if they can get Wilkinson playing 2 yds further up and flat then with Flood's distribution they will hopefully get the ball into Tuilagi, Ashton, Cueto and Foden's hands a lot more.
I think though that this is a team to kick the corners/territory and try and strangle the French. I really hope I am wrong and we come out and play fast, open attacking Rugby as wished by Flood and Foden this week.
Predictions ?. England, South Africa and New Zealand. As for the Ireland v Wales game, I hope they both lose :-). I fear Wales will win and having watching their Rugby programme Scrum V last weekend, it's only a matter of time before they secure world domination. So there is lots of confidence in the valley's, perhaps too much?. There's no middle ground with Wales, either brilliant or totally crap.
Anyway, doubtless I will be knackered on Sat and Sunday after two early starts, but enjoy all !!!
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England (hopefully)
Wales
New Zealand
South Africa
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England, Ireland (hopefully, as I have them in the sweep), South Africa, New Zealand.
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Really nervous about this, I hope and think we'll beat the French. It's time we turned up.
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It feels too early to be watching sport. I.m having trouble processing.
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Very impressive from the Welsh. Come on England win and win well.
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What a fucking embarrassing pile of shit from England so far.
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This "performance" has me very close to putting my fist through my new TV.
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YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING.
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Unacceptable.
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Brainless - I am afraid many of our rugby players have as much brains as our footballers, and that is some insult
Wilkinson looks like a dinosaur and Youngs irritates the hell out of me with his decision making and lary approach as he has done all tournament. Stevens and Thompson aren't up to it either...
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Its made even harder to watch due to the excruciating commentary of Phil Vickery.
He even had the stupidity to praise Tuilagi and Flood when they gave away the first two penalties.
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For fucks sake. Why can not one of our players refrain from knocking the ball on?
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Arse.
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Absolutely diabolical for 60 minutes again, you can't play like that against proper teams. Shocking, something needs to change at the top.
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Well we are out and we deserve to be out. I guess I was hoping against hope that despite the turgid performances up until now that England would break out and make use of the many talented players they have.
The slight improvement in the second half in no way compensates for the unbelievably pathetic first half.
Johnson and the England coaching set up have bought this upon themselves. They were shown in the game against Australia last autumn, and for a lot of the six nations, how much potential England had to play an ambitious, width based game. Instead they choose the safe option. Johnson also put a couple of his mates in the team, despite neither being close to good enough in the twilight of their careers. Surely England have to move away from Wilkinson and Thompson now, it was no coincidence that there was more urgency and dynamism without them on the pitch.
As much as I respect Johnson, and admire him for what he achieved as a player and captain, he simply does not cut it as a coach. His tenure started poorly, had a really bright spell which he failed to build on, and has now returned to poor.
Time to go.
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We have the players to play an expansive game, that's how to improve as shown last autumn.
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The performance was summed up in the first few minutes: great position and Thompson puts the line-out throw into French hands.
The best team won - and probably a good thing. I could envisage on present form the Welsh slaughtering England.
Changes needed. As is so often the case in sport, in Johnson the RFU have fallen into the trap of appointing a great player and inspirational captain with no track record of coaching. I think he's shown himself out of the depth: cold stares and thumping the desk in the coaching box doesn't make a great tactician.
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Johnson is talking nonsense, all this spirit to come back. The point is you shouldn't have to come back, if you don't start you're fucked.
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Well we are out and we deserve to be out. I guess I was hoping against hope that despite the turgid performances up until now that England would break out and make use of the many talented players they have.
The slight improvement in the second half in no way compensates for the unbelievably pathetic first half.
Johnson and the England coaching set up have bought this upon themselves. They were shown in the game against Australia last autumn, and for a lot of the six nations, how much potential England had to play an ambitious, width based game. Instead they choose the safe option. Johnson also put a couple of his mates in the team, despite neither being close to good enough in the twilight of their careers. Surely England have to move away from Wilkinson and Thompson now, it was no coincidence that there was more urgency and dynamism without them on the pitch.
As much as I respect Johnson, and admire him for what he achieved as a player and captain, he simply does not cut it as a coach. His tenure started poorly, had a really bright spell which he failed to build on, and has now returned to poor.
Time to go.
Spot on. Dreadful decision making today and all tournament for me. Amazing to leave Haskell out when he has been one of our best players and to persist with Wilkinson when he provides so little attacking dynamic. His penalty kicks to touch were awful today, gaining almost no ground at all, and just one symptom of the huge decline in his all round game. Add in the disciplinary issues and I don't think Johnson has got what it takes. Wales vs France will be a cracker of a semi as, unlike England, we shall see some free flowing, exciting, attacking rugby...
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Wales' opening score was the try of the tournament for me.
As for England. I hope that's the last we see of Thompson and Wilkinson. Johnno should go as well, just for leaving Haskell out of the line up
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Moody has to go as well, Wood should have been in front of him anyway.
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Arrogance and complacency played a big part today. Some players were talking about winning the game in the first 15-20 minutes beforehand. Well, that happened, but it went the other way. France are an average side and Wales will hammer them.
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Well we are out and we deserve to be out. I guess I was hoping against hope that despite the turgid performances up until now that England would break out and make use of the many talented players they have.
The slight improvement in the second half in no way compensates for the unbelievably pathetic first half.
Johnson and the England coaching set up have bought this upon themselves. They were shown in the game against Australia last autumn, and for a lot of the six nations, how much potential England had to play an ambitious, width based game. Instead they choose the safe option. Johnson also put a couple of his mates in the team, despite neither being close to good enough in the twilight of their careers. Surely England have to move away from Wilkinson and Thompson now, it was no coincidence that there was more urgency and dynamism without them on the pitch.
As much as I respect Johnson, and admire him for what he achieved as a player and captain, he simply does not cut it as a coach. His tenure started poorly, had a really bright spell which he failed to build on, and has now returned to poor.
Time to go.
Spot on. Dreadful decision making today and all tournament for me. Amazing to leave Haskell out when he has been one of our best players and to persist with Wilkinson when he provides so little attacking dynamic. His penalty kicks to touch were awful today, gaining almost no ground at all, and just one symptom of the huge decline in his all round game. Add in the disciplinary issues and I don't think Johnson has got what it takes. Wales vs France will be a cracker of a semi as, unlike England, we shall see some free flowing, exciting, attacking rugby...
Yeah can't disagree with much here at all. Was speaking to my Welsh Father, god that's hard work at the moment and he was saying there was a total lack of leadership out there today and contrasted it to Warburton with Wales. Can't disagree to be honest, it's been a disaster on and off the field from start to finish and I was hoping we could somehow galvanise ourselves for the knockout stages. In the cold light of day though, it just ain't been good enough !!.
Got immense respect for Johnno as a player but his reign has been a poor tenure and I just can't see any plan other than bish, bash, bosh. His selection of the bench for instance was insane, 5 forwards and 2 backs, one of whom is a converted 2nd row to wing, it left him with nowhere to go for me. Not picking a fourth centre was stupid. As has been said above, we showed in the Autumn and early in the 6 nations how we could progress by playing open and attacking and attractive Rugby. From memory, we battered Wales in Cardiff and the scoreline flattered them. Look at the difference now?
He has just been so conservative with his selections and choice of coaches and game plan that he doesn't realise how much Rugby has moved on. We have some really talented players in this country, but it seems that when they get to the full team they get all of the flair coached out of them. Richard said above about Youngs, how good was he when he came in just over a year ago?. Quick taps, tempo, ball away from the rucks/mauls quickly, attacking from our own 22. What happens now?. He taps and goes once today and hey presto, Foden scores. 10 mins later, he is hooked for feckin Wigglesworth???.
I think a massive problem in this country is we don't trust flair, in all sports. Rugby, look at players like Simpson-Daniel, Cipriani, Geraghty, Sharples, Monye, Ojo etc etc, all of whom have been tried and given less than 12 games and binned. We get players like Banahan going and its a complete farce.
I'm afraid Johnno has to go now and take his awful coaches, with the exception of Rowntree with him and lets get Mallinder in from Northampton or Toby Booth. Coaches who have done their time and understand coaching and not someone straight from playing and into the National job. Problem is, the RFU is in such strife that I don't know who can make that decision.
Not happy :-(
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Deadspin's guide to the RWC QFs
http://deadspin.com/sin-bin/
Good to see that their opinion of Steve Thompson is as low as mine.....
Feel free to hate Steve Thompson, too, even though he has come back from what was thought to be a career-ending neck injury. Whatever. He's still a dick. If anyone in a French jersey is throwing punches, he's probably throwing them at Thompson. And Thompson definitely deserves them. Also, his lineout throws are an abomination to the hooker's arts.
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Oh dear, I knew it would be bad after our first line out when we put it right in their corner and the we lost the ball, it happened far too often and our decision making and passing was awful. I haven't seen much rugby as I now live in Canada but that flood wasn't up to much. Well I can delete the app of my phone now!
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Bag of shit. Lack of attacking flair. The French would have shit a brick at Sinbad coming off the bench with 25 to go. We brought on Banahan.
At least that should be the end of Wilkinson. Sharples should be in for Cueto and I wouldn't mind an aggressive pisshead like Narraway back in the pack either.
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Fran Cotton appraisal of Johnson's performance doesn't bode well for him.
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I'm afraid Johnno has to go now and take his awful coaches, with the exception of Rowntree with him and lets get Mallinder in from Northampton or Toby Booth. Coaches who have done their time and understand coaching and not someone straight from playing and into the National job. Problem is, the RFU is in such strife that I don't know who can make that decision.
As a Saints fan I would loathe to lose Mallinder but Northampton do play decent rugby (even if they did bin Geraghty), using the likes of Foden and Ashton in a way that seemed so foreign to England.
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What a bollocks sending off.
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It was a yellow definitely, but red was mental.
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What a bollocks sending off.
I think that the "tabloid" ITV commentators have built up the controversy of that decision in order to increase the game's drama and get people talking. It looked a yellow to me, so yellow to red isn't such a great leap.
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I thought it was a yellow at a push.
Warburton lifted the French player off the ground, but didn't forcefully drive him back down by any means. The referee seemed very weak in the face of an overreaction from the French players.
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The worst thing for me is that France now look certain to get to a world cup final by default.
I think Wales are the better team by quite a distance.
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A semi-final line-up where two of the teams have lost a game and one, France, has lost 2 games!
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I think Wales are the better team by quite a distance.
That's true. NZ will then win it at a canter, having played only one hard match vs Australia. All too predictable, yet England and France are no where near the level they should be at. Fair play to Wales and Ireland for at least looking like they're somewhere near the top of their games otherwise the Northern Hemisphere would not have turned up.
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The Welsh have been very impressive. Instead of feeling sorry for themselves over the ridiculous sending off they've just got on with it. This is where I remember that my nan's maiden name was Jones.
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I'll be backing whoever plays France in the final now.
They've scraped through their pool losing two games, came up against a pitiful English performance and have been easily matched by a 14 man Wales.
Although I have a bad feeling their luck won't run out.
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I called an Aussie victory before the tournament started and am sticking by that. Fuck the Welsh. I had to put up with loads of the French supporting gobshites last weekend.
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I called an Aussie victory before the tournament started and am sticking by that. Fuck the Welsh. I had to put up with loads of the French supporting gobshites last weekend.
Amen to that one.
Team may well have played with dignity but all week all the welsh fans
I work with or know have talked about is bloody England.
Ha ha,Allez le Bleu!!
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Shudder, an Englishman cheering for the French - it's against the laws of nature.
The All Blacks without Carter are not quite such a dominant force but it's still their tournament to lose.
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Shudder, an Englishman cheering for the French - it's against the laws of nature.
The All Blacks without Carter are not quite such a dominant force but it's still their tournament to lose.
Not if you live as dangerously close to the border as I do.Wales played some of the best rugby of the tournmanent but was this mentioned?Hell no it was Wilkinson this and Wilkinson that.
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Shudder, an Englishman cheering for the French - it's against the laws of nature.
The All Blacks without Carter are not quite such a dominant force but it's still their tournament to lose.
Not if you live as dangerously close to the border as I do.Wales played some of the best rugby of the tournmanent but was this mentioned?Hell no it was Wilkinson this and Wilkinson that.
Fair point, I hadn't clocked your location. It's going to be like watching Blues Albion next week, disliking both teams intensely but knowing only one of them can lose.
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I thought it was a yellow at a push.
Warburton lifted the French player off the ground, but didn't forcefully drive him back down by any means. The referee seemed very weak in the face of an overreaction from the French players.
The rule changed last October. If the tackler lifts a player off his feet he has a duty to put him down safely, not drop him. Yes it could have been a yellow, but it wasn't wrong to give him a red.
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I only caught some of the last 10 mins but the Welsh could have easily kicked a drop goal around the 71 min mark to attempt to win but tried to get the big score. So whatever the controversy over the red card, they have only themselves to blame for losing really.
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Well done the All Blacks.
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Should be way too strong for the French next week.
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What a bollocks sending off.
I think that the "tabloid" ITV commentators have built up the controversy of that decision in order to increase the game's drama and get people talking. It looked a yellow to me, so yellow to red isn't such a great leap.
Except that the IRB has given specific instuction that spear tackles are a red card offense. Basically most of the pundits are stating that it killed the game and was a bog decision in such a high profile match. For me the rules should be applied regardless of which game it is and when it happens in the game. Warburton was a prat for doing this and even giving the referee the chance to make the decision.
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Well I know who I will be supporting
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Fuck the Welsh, hope Australia murder them :)
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Sounds like the Welsh put up a good fight!
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Didn't watch and don't know the score. I will have a nose in the morning though.
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France walked at the Haka, interesting!
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France walked at the Haka, interesting!
I thought that was great ! Took all the attention away from the haka.
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I like the fact they took up the challenge. But they're in trouble.
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Is Richie McCaw invisible to officials when he makes late tackles.........
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France have gone over!
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Referee having a shocker.........so biased
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Referee having a shocker.........so biased
The Ref clearly missed class on the day that "high tackles" were being dealt with.