Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: wozwebs on July 28, 2011, 12:05:47 AM
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Revealed: How Alex McLeish is winning over the haters at Aston Villa
By James Nursey
I had a couple of interesting insights recently into Alex McLeish's new regime at Aston Villa and believe the Scot is making good early progress both among players and fans now the furore over his appointment has ceased.
For those outside the Midlands, it is impossible to understate how much a stir McLeish's move from relegated Birmingham to arch-rivals Aston Villa has caused in the region.
But new Villa manager McLeish has got down to business quickly on the training ground and has certainly made a favourable first impression with his new charges.
In this job you get to speak to players as well as people in and around the first team squad, including members of staff based at training ground.
And the feedback on McLeish has been entirely positive so far with the players liking his man-management techniques and training sessions.
I can't think of many Birmingham players who ever had anything bad to say about the bloke apart from maybe Cameron Jerome bemoaning playing upfront on his own.
And McLeish's friendly, approachable personality has also gone down well so far at Villa.
For starters, it is clear McLeish's entire perspective is a lot more inclusive than Houllier's.
All the players at Villa are getting a chance to stake a claim and I personally think it is great to see both Stephen Ireland and Stephen Warnock back in first team contention.
With hindsight, Houllier clearly tried to change too much too quickly during his ill-fated reign at Villa Park.
His decision to continually ostracise the likes of Ireland, Warnock, John Carew and Habib Beye became a stubborn matter of principle rather than what was in the best interests of the club who were fighting relegation at the time.
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
So both Warnock and Ireland are getting their chance and McLeish seems particularly enthusiastic about the midfielder's potential.
They looked sharp at Walsall in Villa's 3-1 win in their opening pre-season friendly last Thursday when I did not hear even one word of discontent from the away fans about McLeish's appointment.
And speaking to McLeish afterwards, he made it quite clear both Warnock and Ireland were fired up to succeed this season and get their careers back on track .
Villa are yet to get anything like value for money from Ireland's £60,000-a-week salary and he was even loaned out to Newcastle last term after flopping following his switch in the James Milner to Man City transfer.
But Ireland has a huge amount of ability and McLeish seems to be relishing the challenge of finally trying to get the best out of the mercurial talent.
So I find that 'inclusive' aspect of McLeish's reign very encouraging as well as the fact that supporters seem to be giving him time to prove himself.
I was Villa's kit launch as well last week to interview both new keeper Shay Given and star striker Darren Bent.
The pair both also appear to have a point to prove this season which will surely only benefit Villa too.
Given did not play in a single Premier League game last season at Eastlands where he became immensely frustrated so he wants to re-establish his top-flight credentials.
While Bent told the Midlands press how he still remains sore about being overlooked from England's 2010 World Cup squad and is desperate to go the European Championships next summer.
Villa now have players all over the pitch from defence to attack who in theory should have extra motivation to do well this season.
And of course no-one should be more fired up than McLeish himself who knows his side need to hit the ground running this term if he is to win over sceptical fans.
It promises to be a fascinating season and I am sorry I am not on the club's pre-season tour of Hong Kong this week as one of my colleagues who covers Chelsea has the gig.
But after being sent to Wimbledon and The Open this summer I am not complaining.
Let's hope Villa's squad do not spend much time moaning either this season.
That was a feature of Houllier's controversial tenure and my revelations last year he had banned phones, chit-chat in training and ordered stars to move nearer the club caused a huge storm.
It first came to light back on December 12 when a bust-up between coach Gary McAllister and Richard Dunne exposed behind-the-scenes tension at the club's training ground.
Now though under McLeish no-one seems to be grumbling about the Scot asking players to at least have a flat for work near the club .
Given happily admitted he was already looking to relocate and other incoming players like Wigan winger Charles N'Zogbia are expected to follow suit.
That speaks volumes because the players clearly never took Houllier seriously and simply weren't having him.
But McLeish's firm but fair methods seem to have already gained the respect of the dressing room so that constitutes progress already.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/james-nursey/James-Nursey-Aston-Villa-Revealed-How-Alex-McLeish-is-winning-over-the-haters-article776429.html#ixzz1TLkP9ZCv
Positive stuff really.
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"the players clearly never took Houllier seriously"
Something like this was reported elsewhere recently and it could explain why Randy was so keen to get rid.
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I don't think many of the fans did either. I always had the feeling he was a stop-gap and wouldn't be there long. With McLeish, as long as the top of the Holte, boo everything, brigade let him get on with it I can see him being here a fair few years. Might be just what we need.
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
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"the players clearly never took Houllier seriously"
Something like this was reported elsewhere recently and it could explain why Randy was so keen to get rid.
Yeah i always thought their was some distance between Houllier and the players, Some of Houlliers ideas may have been good but if you cant convey them properly or get some respect with results then the players dont buy into them.
Part of Houlliers problem was trying to do too much too soon, alienating too many players too quickly, partly this is the reason Mcleish is saying not to many big signings for now, as he wants to give everyone a chance and get a feel for the team before making rash decisions.
I think Mcleish has instantly got players on board because he knows what its like to be a player, but at the same time he can distance himself to give a bollocking without losing them
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
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GH did seem to suffer from a chronic case of foot in mouth at times. If the fans were complaining about it, I'm sure some of the players weren't too impressed either.
Thing is, I don't think it's his job to impress them. I know the game has changed a lot but it should still be the other way round. Plus, the players who seemed to have the biggest problem with him and G Mac were generally our poorer performers. Downing, Ash and Bent didn't let let any misgivings they might have had about the manager affect their performances.
If RL has bowed to player pressure to force GH out, it sets a dangerous precedent. And effectively gives players who already have too much of it even more power.
But last I heard it was purely on medical grounds that GH couldn't continue. It would have been a far worse scenario if we did as GH initially suggested -wait until September for him to return. With a better than average chance that the doctors might have then said he still wasn't ready or -worse- that he should quit football altogether.
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
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"the players clearly never took Houllier seriously"
Something like this was reported elsewhere recently and it could explain why Randy was so keen to get rid.
Same goes for the fans. There was a very 'short-term' feeling when he arrived, and the continual gaffs meant he never achieved acceptance, just tolerance.
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Bloody media with their pro-MON, anti-Villa agenda....Oh!
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
Said it before, it's now a football 'fact' that Martinez turned the job down because he thought Wigan were the better option. The actual truth was Whelan reminding Martinez he was under contract and Martinez either deciding he was too loyal or wasn't ready for a bigger job.
The only gaff Villa made was to allow themselves to be dragged into a public charade with DW (Stadium) and it was a considerable one as it realy kicked off the 2 week media kicking we got. I hope they learned from that and the Nzogbia media blackout suggests they did.
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Oh, and AM is, as Sunderland fans might say, playing a blinder so far.
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
That's the problem with him is'nt it? At the first sign of trouble, he'll be writing about a 'club in crisis'.
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I was never a hater.
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
That's the problem with him is'nt it? At the first sign of trouble, he'll be writing about a 'club in crisis'.
so cynical clampy, nursey will be eager to see mcleish succeed but houlliers reign provided him plenty of stories to expose with all the bust ups behind the scenes and as a reporter he obviously lapped it up.
he has written many positive villa articles in the past ,but its his job to report what he finds out-after all hes employed by the mirror not villas pr department.
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
That's the problem with him is'nt it? At the first sign of trouble, he'll be writing about a 'club in crisis'.
so cynical clampy, nursey will be eager to see mcleish succeed but houlliers reign provided him plenty of stories to expose with all the bust ups behind the scenes and as a reporter he obviously lapped it up.
he has written many positive villa articles in the past ,but its his job to report what he finds out-after all hes employed by the mirror not villas pr department.
Villa's what now?!
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I never liked houllier when he was at Liverpool and it got to the point last season where I detested the man.i have no problem with a manager dropping a player based on form but it was obvious that Houllier had personal agendas.There were a number of managers waxing lyrical about Dunne last season when he had his bust up and I don't recall reading any negative press about Warnock before Houllier rolled up either.Doesn't matter whether you're on 200 quid a week or £50k a week.If you don't/can't respect the manager it will affect your performance.
As for McMinge, well I always found him to be a likeable character.I, like many others wasn't pleased when he got the job, with the two relegations rather than the Blues connection being my concern but he's done and said everything right so far to get the fans onboard.Hopefully we'll start the season well and the detractors will be quietened down.
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Respect is such a key factor and you have to wonder whether Houllier & McAllister ever commanded it from the players - for the majority you would have to conclude not.
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I never liked houllier when he was at Liverpool and it got to the point last season where I detested the man.i have no problem with a manager dropping a player based on form but it was obvious that Houllier had personal agendas.There were a number of managers waxing lyrical about Dunne last season when he had his bust up and I don't recall reading any negative press about Warnock before Houllier rolled up either.Doesn't matter whether you're on 200 quid a week or £50k a week.If you don't/can't respect the manager it will affect your performance.
As for McMinge, well I always found him to be a likeable character.I, like many others wasn't pleased when he got the job, with the two relegations rather than the Blues connection being my concern but he's done and said everything right so far to get the fans onboard.Hopefully we'll start the season well and the detractors will be quietened down.
i liked what houllier was trying to do playing wise but his lack of respect for villa at anfield followed by the disgusting decision to put out such a weak team at man city in the cup were huge errors and he needlessly shot himself in the foot and alienated himself.
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
That's the problem with him is'nt it? At the first sign of trouble, he'll be writing about a 'club in crisis'.
the Mirror get more stick on here than any other paper, the reason is because they write about Villa more than any other paper, good and bad.
Villa dont exist for many other publications, at least the Mirror are interested, and just because they dont write positive news all the time they get pelters.
i know there can be an agenda, especially with Oliver Holt, but like i say you cant have it all ways, papers will never be like the 'official Villa site' where every thing is all warm and cosey, and they will write absolute crap sometimes,
but the Mirror are at leat interested in the club, they write about it more than any other paper, so you will always get the Good the Bad and the Ugly
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I never liked houllier when he was at Liverpool and it got to the point last season where I detested the man.i have no problem with a manager dropping a player based on form but it was obvious that Houllier had personal agendas.There were a number of managers waxing lyrical about Dunne last season when he had his bust up and I don't recall reading any negative press about Warnock before Houllier rolled up either.Doesn't matter whether you're on 200 quid a week or £50k a week.If you don't/can't respect the manager it will affect your performance.
As for McMinge, well I always found him to be a likeable character.I, like many others wasn't pleased when he got the job, with the two relegations rather than the Blues connection being my concern but he's done and said everything right so far to get the fans onboard.Hopefully we'll start the season well and the detractors will be quietened down.
i liked what houllier was trying to do playing wise but his lack of respect for villa at anfield followed by the disgusting decision to put out such a weak team at man city in the cup were huge errors and he needlessly shot himself in the foot and alienated himself.
The Anfield debacle was bad enough but following his dealings in the transfer market I was starting to soften my opinion of him.The style of play thing never really sat with me.We'd had three years of being a side which won more than we lost playing some great counter attacking football,though sometimes against the lesser sides at home we struggled with a lack of ideas.However, when he surrendered in the FA Cup that was it for me.It was as if he was doing us a favour being the manager.He never gave the club nor the fans the respect it deserved.Can't accuse McMinge of that,he's pretty much been spot on in that department.
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must admit ive never bought the mirror but i do read their football website and agree with your comments john e.
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"the players clearly never took Houllier seriously"
Something like this was reported elsewhere recently and it could explain why Randy was so keen to get rid.
I said something like that yesterday. Houllier may have been trying to change things like the style of play for the better, but in any job it's impossible to achieve change if you alienate the people who you need to be on your side to get the job done. I think Lerner probably saw that for Houllier to have a chance of succeeding he'd have to replace pretty well the whole squad, and obviously wans't going to sanction that.
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the Mirror get more stick on here than any other paper, the reason is because they write about Villa more than any other paper, good and bad.
Villa dont exist for many other publications, at least the Mirror are interested, and just because they dont write positive news all the time they get pelters.
i know there can be an agenda, especially with Oliver Holt, but like i say you cant have it all ways, papers will never be like the 'official Villa site' where every thing is all warm and cosey, and they will write absolute crap sometimes,
but the Mirror are at leat interested in the club, they write about it more than any other paper, so you will always get the Good the Bad and the Ugly
I don't really care if they write positive or negative stuff, the reason they get so much stick is that the majority of what they write is just made up rubbish. And Oliver Holt, who is a ******.
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Respect is such a key factor and you have to wonder whether Houllier & McAllister ever commanded it from the players - for the majority you would have to conclude not.
The commandments were "Progress, Pleasure and Performance". Something you could see written on a youth camp banner.
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Sorry to be over-critical of this, but there's something not quite right about this sentence:
"For those outside the Midlands, it is impossible to understate how much a stir McLeish's move from relegated Birmingham to arch-rivals Aston Villa has caused in the region."
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Nursey seemed to undergo some kind of personality transplant in about December last year. Prior to that, he never had a single positive thing to say about anyone at the club.
Then he got invited to meet Houllier, I recall, and following that pretty much every single thing he has written has been positive.
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Sorry to be over-critical of this, but there's something not quite right about this sentence:
"For those outside the Midlands, it is impossible to understate how much a stir McLeish's move from relegated Birmingham to arch-rivals Aston Villa has caused in the region."
Yes indeed, very poor.
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I never liked houllier when he was at Liverpool and it got to the point last season where I detested the man.i have no problem with a manager dropping a player based on form but it was obvious that Houllier had personal agendas.There were a number of managers waxing lyrical about Dunne last season when he had his bust up and I don't recall reading any negative press about Warnock before Houllier rolled up either.Doesn't matter whether you're on 200 quid a week or £50k a week.If you don't/can't respect the manager it will affect your performance.
As for McMinge, well I always found him to be a likeable character.I, like many others wasn't pleased when he got the job, with the two relegations rather than the Blues connection being my concern but he's done and said everything right so far to get the fans onboard.Hopefully we'll start the season well and the detractors will be quietened down.
You only have to see how Warnocks performed so far in the 2 friendlies to see that GH was wrong with him
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I never liked houllier when he was at Liverpool and it got to the point last season where I detested the man.i have no problem with a manager dropping a player based on form but it was obvious that Houllier had personal agendas.There were a number of managers waxing lyrical about Dunne last season when he had his bust up and I don't recall reading any negative press about Warnock before Houllier rolled up either.Doesn't matter whether you're on 200 quid a week or £50k a week.If you don't/can't respect the manager it will affect your performance.
As for McMinge, well I always found him to be a likeable character.I, like many others wasn't pleased when he got the job, with the two relegations rather than the Blues connection being my concern but he's done and said everything right so far to get the fans onboard.Hopefully we'll start the season well and the detractors will be quietened down.
You only have to see how Warnocks performed so far in the 2 friendlies to see that GH was wrong with him
Whilst it is encouraging, it is two friendlies, one of which was against Walsall. He's got to produce in a league environment - it wasn't just about Houllier abandoning him randomly whilst all the time he was excellent. He was rank poor for a long time before that.
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I'd be delighted if Ireland and Warnock proved that GH was wrong to drop them, but we don't always knwo what goes on behinf closed doors, they may have acted like a pair of ******.
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Winning over the haters my arse. The dissent towards him was always going to quieten down before the season started. As ever it will be all about results, and he'll be okay if he gets off to a flyer. If not, then the blose thing will rear its head just like the fickle thing did with DOL and GH's love-in with Liverpool did
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the Mirror get more stick on here than any other paper, the reason is because they write about Villa more than any other paper, good and bad.
Villa dont exist for many other publications, at least the Mirror are interested, and just because they dont write positive news all the time they get pelters.
i know there can be an agenda, especially with Oliver Holt, but like i say you cant have it all ways, papers will never be like the 'official Villa site' where every thing is all warm and cosey, and they will write absolute crap sometimes,
but the Mirror are at leat interested in the club, they write about it more than any other paper, so you will always get the Good the Bad and the Ugly
I don't really care if they write positive or negative stuff, the reason they get so much stick is that the majority of what they write is just made up rubbish. And Oliver Holt, who is a c***.
Did you know his Mother is...........................
:)
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Oliver Holt and Neil Moxley are two journo's I just can't stand.
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I wasn't happy when we hired him, but it's done now and we need to just get on with it. He does come across as a good person as well.
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It's been a while since I said anything bad about Oliver Holt.
The smug, bed-wetting, fat-faced, bagpuss-looking, monkey-felching mongoloid!
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Quote from: hilts_coolerking on Today at 01:07:29 AM
Quote from: usav on Today at 12:43:32 AM
There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
Quote
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
It may not have been the reason he turned us down but I do think we have a lack of cash! We released 11 and sold Young & Downing and we only brought two in and were saying that's it?
poor show if true
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In regards to winning over the haters, we'll see after the season starts. If we start playing like Blues did then there will be a queue of haters
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Winning over the haters my arse. The dissent towards him was always going to quieten down before the season started. As ever it will be all about results, and he'll be okay if he gets off to a flyer. If not, then the blose thing will rear its head just like the fickle thing did with DOL and GH's love-in with Liverpool did
I agree.
He's done o.k so far but watch it all change very quickly if we lose at Craven Cottage and then fail to beat Blackburn at home.
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Winning over the haters my arse. The dissent towards him was always going to quieten down before the season started. As ever it will be all about results, and he'll be okay if he gets off to a flyer. If not, then the blose thing will rear its head just like the fickle thing did with DOL and GH's love-in with Liverpool did
I agree.
He's done o.k so far but watch it all change very quickly if we lose at Craven Cottage and then fail to beat Blackburn at home.
there we have it-mr doom and mr gloom have spoken!
rather than speculate what if we lose to fulham and blackburn ,why not look forward to beating both and getting off to a flier?
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In regards to winning over the haters, we'll see after the season starts. If we start playing like Blues did then there will be a queue of haters
But there's no sign of us doing that so far. Granted, the opposition mightn't be the greatest, but we can only judge him on what he's done at the villa so far, and it's positive.
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Sorry to be over-critical of this, but there's something not quite right about this sentence:
"For those outside the Midlands, it is impossible to understate how much a stir McLeish's move from relegated Birmingham to arch-rivals Aston Villa has caused in the region."
Yes indeed, very poor.
I must be an example of declining educational standards as I wouldn't have noticed that if you hadn't pointed it out.
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
I was about to reply to Hilts comment and than saw usav post. Yes as you said usav.
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Winning over the fans is a bit premature comment...
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It's an article by James Nursery, it might be factual in some aspects but it's still him and therefore a pinch of salt springs to mind. He will be twisting the knife at the first opportunity that's for sure.
That's the problem with him is'nt it? At the first sign of trouble, he'll be writing about a 'club in crisis'.
so cynical clampy, .
But so true at the same time Eastie. Anyway, lots of people have had a dig at The Mirror on this thread today, not just me.
As for McCleish, i just hope come 13th August down at Fulham, the fans get behind him and not jump on his back after a defeat which no doubt will happen. He has'nt just got to win over the haters, but also the doubting thomas' (me included i suppose).
So far though, I like the fact that he's working on the defence, that's very encouraging. It's looking like he's banking on Petrov to be his 'Scott Parker' and in a midfield three, he could do really well in there. The early signs are encouraging, it's up to the fans to play their part as well come match day.
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"the players clearly never took Houllier seriously"
Something like this was reported elsewhere recently and it could explain why Randy was so keen to get rid.
Yeah i always thought their was some distance between Houllier and the players, Some of Houlliers ideas may have been good but if you cant convey them properly or get some respect with results then the players dont buy into them.
Part of Houlliers problem was trying to do too much too soon, alienating too many players too quickly, partly this is the reason Mcleish is saying not to many big signings for now, as he wants to give everyone a chance and get a feel for the team before making rash decisions.
I think Mcleish has instantly got players on board because he knows what its like to be a player, but at the same time he can distance himself to give a bollocking without losing them
Houllier's credibility seemed to go right at the start with a large number of players. The only two options for the board really were to let him ship out half the squad and replace them with "his" players, or get in another manager with a clean slate. Option 2 certainly the less expensive.
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
I was about to reply to Hilts comment and than saw usav post. Yes as you said usav.
We're spending 10m on a player, but we've just sold two of our best ones for 36m.
In terms of no extra cash, that much is definitely true. Unless we go out and spend a further 20 million or so, which isn't going to happen.
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
I was about to reply to Hilts comment and than saw usav post. Yes as you said usav.
We're spending 10m on a player, but we've just sold two of our best ones for 36m.
In terms of no extra cash, that much is definitely true. Unless we go out and spend a further 20 million or so, which isn't going to happen.
you forgot we bought bent and makoun in january for nearly £30m and the record losses announced so clearly money had to go towards the losses -we cant keep spending huge amounts and making record losses-we had to balance the books at some time.
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There's only one way he's going to "win over" the fans, and that's to win enough matches to challenge for a European place; and/or win a Cup.
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There's only one way he's going to "win over" the fans, and that's to win enough matches to challenge for a European place; and/or win a Cup.
speak for yourself, he doesnt need to win me over as ive been right behind him from day one , every manager deserves total backing at the start , he should be judged on his results at villa not his past.
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There is talking bollocks and then there is this:
But as Villa clearly do not have much cash to spend this summer (which probably explains why the likes of Roberto Martinez turned them down), McLeish is having to utilise all his assets.
What's wrong with that?
The not much cash to spend for one, when we've just agreed a fee of 10m for N'Zogbia.
Roberto Martinez turned us down for lack of cash to stay at Wigan? Yes, right.
I was about to reply to Hilts comment and than saw usav post. Yes as you said usav.
We're spending 10m on a player, but we've just sold two of our best ones for 36m.
In terms of no extra cash, that much is definitely true. Unless we go out and spend a further 20 million or so, which isn't going to happen.
you forgot we bought bent and makoun in january for nearly £30m and the record losses announced so clearly money had to go towards the losses -we cant keep spending huge amounts and making record losses-we had to balance the books at some time.
I didn't mention that because it's not really relevant to the discussion above - whatever the reasons and however valid they are, the bit about no extra cash would seem to be true.
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this years signings of bent, makoun , nzogbia and given are 4 quality players who have come in for similar combined money to the cash raised from young and downing.
i suppose the question of the milner cash could be thrown in - but if thats gone towards balancing the books so be it , we have lost 2 class players and replaced them with 4 class players for equal cash so we are not as bad as some think , thats £40m plus spent on 4 players this year , how many clubs have done that?
granted we recieved as much in sales but we have at least spent it on players.
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this years signings of bent, makoun , nzogbia and given are 4 quality players who have come in for similar combined money to the cash raised from young and downing.
Again, we've sold two of our best players to fund those signings. When we were approaching new managers, we hadn't sold them, so the "no more money" thing is pretty hard to argue against.
Incidentally, I love how the Bent money seems to have seamlessly transferred from being funded by the sale of Milner to being funded by the sale of Young.
It's been repeated so many times now, it has effectively become accepted logic.
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this years signings of bent, makoun , nzogbia and given are 4 quality players who have come in for similar combined money to the cash raised from young and downing.
What happened to the Milner money then?
It is obvious the wage bill needed to be bought under control, so far we have got a no of high earners of it:
Sidwel
Reo Coker
Carew
Young
Downing
Friedel
Probably Cuellar
Add to them a few decent earning fringe players such as Salifou and Pires.
I'm all for getting our house in order, but believe the rate we did this at should be more gradual, so that we don't slip too far in the short term.
One or two good new signings would still mean we are going in the right direction financially.
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If there was a cash crisis then I don't think we'd be getting players like Given and N'Zogbia and giving them 5yr deals worth (allegedly) £3 million per season.For me at the age they are now the likes of Bannan,Clark,Albrighton and the Fonz have to either be deemed good enough for the first team squad now or they should be sold.IMO, they're all worthy of being in the matchday squad so rather than splash out, lets see these lads have their chance.Waiting in the wings behind them there's Hogg,Weimann,Johnson and Gardner.We've plenty of experience in the side to blood these lads.
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There's only one way he's going to "win over" the fans, and that's to win enough matches to challenge for a European place; and/or win a Cup.
speak for yourself, he doesnt need to win me over as ive been right behind him from day one , every manager deserves total backing at the start , he should be judged on his results at villa not his past.
Which is what I said.
But if we get relegated, or even languish in the bottom half of the table, do you really think there won't be A LOT of fans saying "I told you so"?
Speaking for myself, on the basis of his track record, there's little indication that he's the best man for the job or the right man for the job. So all we can do is wait and see. I won't be booing him, but I can't fake excitement.
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There's only one way he's going to "win over" the fans, and that's to win enough matches to challenge for a European place; and/or win a Cup.
. I won't be booing him, but I can't fake excitement.
Not married then mate? ;)
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There's only one way he's going to "win over" the fans, and that's to win enough matches to challenge for a European place; and/or win a Cup.
speak for yourself, he doesnt need to win me over as ive been right behind him from day one , every manager deserves total backing at the start , he should be judged on his results at villa not his past.
Not saying your wrong Eastie, we should get behind him but I do admire your optimism. Same with Clampy, working on the defence ain't a bad idea but I hope it ain't McLeish's 9 man defence with a lone striker. I can't ignore his credentials, just hoping Aston Villa are a turning point for him for both our sakes.
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Speaking for myself, on the basis of his track record, there's little indication that he's the best man for the job or the right man for the job. So all we can do is wait and see. I won't be booing him, but I can't fake excitement.
Thats about it for me as well, we finished ninth and have lost four of the better players from that team replacing only two. We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
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We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
Alternatively, you could say we've appointed the manager who guided that shower of shite to a domestic trophy win over Arsenal. Something we haven't done in 15 years now.
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this years signings of bent, makoun , nzogbia and given are 4 quality players who have come in for similar combined money to the cash raised from young and downing.
What happened to the Milner money then?
It is obvious the wage bill needed to be bought under control, so far we have got a no of high earners of it:
Sidwel
Reo Coker
Carew
Young
Downing
Friedel
Probably Cuellar
Add to them a few decent earning fringe players such as Salifou and Pires.
I'm all for getting our house in order, but believe the rate we did this at should be more gradual, so that we don't slip too far in the short term.
One or two good new signings would still mean we are going in the right direction financially.
can only imagine most of the milner cash went towards balancing the books, as has been reported at length the bent money was supposedly spent in advance on the basis of youngs sale and nothing that has happened would suggest that kendrick was wrong on that , otherwise we would still have £20m or so to spend -i think personally that if randy took the gamble and invested in dann and parker we would have a very good squad of players indeed.
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this years signings of bent, makoun , nzogbia and given are 4 quality players who have come in for similar combined money to the cash raised from young and downing.
What happened to the Milner money then?
It is obvious the wage bill needed to be bought under control, so far we have got a no of high earners of it:
Sidwel
Reo Coker
Carew
Young
Downing
Friedel
Probably Cuellar
Add to them a few decent earning fringe players such as Salifou and Pires.
I'm all for getting our house in order, but believe the rate we did this at should be more gradual, so that we don't slip too far in the short term.
One or two good new signings would still mean we are going in the right direction financially.
can only imagine most of the milner cash went towards balancing the books, as has been reported at length the bent money was supposedly spent in advance on the basis of youngs sale and nothing that has happened would suggest that kendrick was wrong on that , otherwise we would still have £20m or so to spend -i think personally that if randy took the gamble and invested in dann and parker we would have a very good squad of players indeed.
Fair points.
We sold Downing for £20 million though, and have so far spent £13 million of it. A signing like Parker for say £8 million wouldn't hurt us too much financially, and would improve the side immeasurably.
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I think that's probably a reasonable assumption of what has happened, Eastie.
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We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
Alternatively, you could say we've appointed the manager who guided that shower of shite to a domestic trophy win over Arsenal. Something we haven't done in 15 years now.
You also forgot to mention he won 5 Scottish cups and 2 Championships in Scotland. We see what we want to see ..........
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We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
Alternatively, you could say we've appointed the manager who guided that shower of shite to a domestic trophy win over Arsenal. Something we haven't done in 15 years now.
You also forgot to mention he won 5 Scottish cups and 2 Championships in Scotland. We see what we want to see ..........
Thats the difference between the Premiership and the SPL.
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We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
Alternatively, you could say we've appointed the manager who guided that shower of shite to a domestic trophy win over Arsenal. Something we haven't done in 15 years now.
You also forgot to mention he won 5 Scottish cups and 2 Championships in Scotland. We see what we want to see ..........
Thats the difference between the Premiership and the SPL.
The Carling Cup ?
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A noteable achievement particularly with that shower of sh*te. His league success is not quite so presentable though. I would love McLeish to be the man we are looking for and hopefully he is. I just find it a little hard to get excited about it. He now has my backing and lets all hope it works out.
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We've then appointed as manager the fella who finished third bottom. I admire the optimism of those thinking we'll have a good season but I cant share it.
Alternatively, you could say we've appointed the manager who guided that shower of shite to a domestic trophy win over Arsenal. Something we haven't done in 15 years now.
You also forgot to mention he won 5 Scottish cups and 2 Championships in Scotland. We see what we want to see ..........
Gordon Strachan has a reasonable managerial record in Scotland and a poor one down here, I'd be similarly unenthusiastic if he were to be made Villa manager.
Still, done now.
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Some of our supporters lauded a previous incumbent on the basis of a load of pots won in Scotland and (admittedly two) league cups.
McLeish managed the same with lesser funds at Rangers (was that third place finish in his final season at Rangers down to his own abilities or the continual spending reductions finally biting? I'm not sure.) than O'Neill did at Celtic and had a comparable record whilst there.
I'm not saying it was a wonderful appointment (it was not this by any means) and that he will be the ginger Mourinho but he's not as bad as the moaners make out. I think if I'm honest if we have a poor season next year it will be due to the current spending reductions and a few gambles not paying off rather than McLeish failing. He's just not as bad as the moaning class make out.
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Some of our supporters lauded a previous incumbent on the basis of a load of pots won in Scotland and (admittedly two) league cups.
McLeish managed the same with lesser funds at Rangers (was that third place finish in his final season at Rangers down to his own abilities or the continual spending reductions finally biting? I'm not sure.) than O'Neill did at Celtic and had a comparable record whilst there.
I'm not saying it was a wonderful appointment (it was not this by any means) and that he will be the ginger Mourinho but he's not as bad as the moaners make out. I think if I'm honest if we have a poor season next year it will be due to the current spending reductions and a few gambles not paying off rather than McLeish failing. He's just not as bad as the moaning class make out.
well said bentman.
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Some of our supporters lauded a previous incumbent on the basis of a load of pots won in Scotland and (admittedly two) league cups.
McLeish managed the same with lesser funds at Rangers (was that third place finish in his final season at Rangers down to his own abilities or the continual spending reductions finally biting? I'm not sure.) than O'Neill did at Celtic and had a comparable record whilst there.
I'm not saying it was a wonderful appointment (it was not this by any means) and that he will be the ginger Mourinho but he's not as bad as the moaners make out. I think if I'm honest if we have a poor season next year it will be due to the current spending reductions and a few gambles not paying off rather than McLeish failing. He's just not as bad as the moaning class make out.
I would agree generally with this, I just have one question.
How will it be determined that a poor season is down to spending restrictions or Mcleish's failings ?
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With regard to the Young/Milner money, I'd still back Randy to buy decent players - Dann for example - but first I think he/the club want to get players out. If we sold Cuellar I would not be surprised to see Dann arrive especially if they're on similar wages.
Ultimately I think it's a wages thing rather than the size of the transfer fees.
Does anyone know when the next set of accounts are released?
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there were reports of stoke offering dann £35k a week which would probably be similar to cuellars wages if not lower.
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Why is net spend an overwhelming indication of ambition? I would have thought finding gems and selling some of them periodically for over inflated prices at the right time, and then finding more gems would be a more intelligent way of running a football club. Wages paid should be better indicator of ambition, and if we find really good players for smaller transfer fees and pay them well based on a realistic salary scale isn't that a better way to retain our players, and build a more complete squad? Obviously in all that we have to be successful, but I'd rather find motivated hidden talent, a little bit like Wenger was doing for a while, than looking at how much we are spending to dictate whether are ambitious or not.
If this summer we were to spend less than we brought in, yet the players we do bring in are better for the squad, coupled with the players we have and our academy, as a club we'll be in a far healthier position.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
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He's come over as very humble indeed in every press conference and interview he's done. I agree, he seems to be very comfortable in the job already and there's a steely determination about him, and it's filtering it's way through to the players. I said somewhere else that the Luke Young interview was for me, very telling about the new order. He's always been quite blunt, and you could see that the players have reacted well to McLeish. It's as if McLeish isn't doing us a favour by being here. It's quite the opposite and he feels very priviledged to be our manager.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
Good point, the club has historically had a strong Scottish influence, especially when doing well. Hopefully thats an omen.
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I've got a funny feeling about the McLeish appointment, I actually think it's going to work.
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Me too. I don't know why though, it just feels right somehow.
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Me too. I don't know why though, it just feels right somehow.
I think he's the man to improve the togetherness, professionalism & defence.
All the things that were poor last season.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
Good point, the club has historically had a strong Scottish influence, especially when doing well. Hopefully thats an omen.
Hopefully more McGregor than McNeil.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
Good point, the club has historically had a strong Scottish influence, especially when doing well. Hopefully thats an omen.
Hopefully more McGregor than McNeil.
Damn you, I was clinging to something there.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
Although the way he walked left a bitter taste in the mouth for many, i think MON appreciated where he was. I think he 'got it' to an extent. It felt right for a time, it's just a shame he ruined it.
Mccleish does seem to have a 'i can't believe my luck' aura about him, i think he would have even come here on the same money he was on at Blues.
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This is the job by which McLeish will be judged. everywhere else has been either "only Scotland" or that fucking circus. He's got no excuses here, and equally no "but it's only." He does well, he'll be regarded as a good manager. He does badly it'll be the Championship next stop.
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This is the job by which McLeish will be judged. everywhere else has been either "only Scotland" or that fucking circus. He's got no excuses here, and equally no "but it's only." He does well, he'll be regarded as a good manager. He does badly it'll be the Championship next stop.
or Scotland.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
I think i'd want to be somewhere that is willing to double my salary , although Mcleish does seem to understand the privilege of managing our club.
That's exactly it. The last three were doing us a favour and Sir Graham II was a different entity to his first incarnation, but McLeish 'gets' the club. Maybe it's a Scottish thing.
Wasn't it hookysmith on another thread who said he'd been shown around the place on one of his first visits to VP as B-lose manager and was bowled over? Though you would be, I suppose if you're comparing VP to that weird collection of sheds at the back of a railway track in Bordesley.
I don't doubt his hunger to prove a few doubters wrong. I don't doubt that he's grateful to get a job as big as this so soon after taking the B-lose down. But I do have doubts about his aptitude for the job -though as others have pointed out, his track record taken as a whole isn't completely without merit.
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This is the job by which McLeish will be judged. everywhere else has been either "only Scotland" or that fucking circus. He's got no excuses here, and equally no "but it's only." He does well, he'll be regarded as a good manager. He does badly it'll be the Championship next stop.
Hopefully you mean his next job after us and not where the club will end up.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Which can only bode well for the Club.
From what I've seen and heard so far from him, he is already Villa indoctrined.............everything is we and it's obvious he will use all our available resources to enable the club (not just him) to achieve success.
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Why is net spend an overwhelming indication of ambition? I would have thought finding gems and selling some of them periodically for over inflated prices at the right time, and then finding more gems would be a more intelligent way of running a football club. Wages paid should be better indicator of ambition, and if we find really good players for smaller transfer fees and pay them well based on a realistic salary scale isn't that a better way to retain our players, and build a more complete squad? Obviously in all that we have to be successful, but I'd rather find motivated hidden talent, a little bit like Wenger was doing for a while, than looking at how much we are spending to dictate whether are ambitious or not.
If this summer we were to spend less than we brought in, yet the players we do bring in are better for the squad, coupled with the players we have and our academy, as a club we'll be in a far healthier position.
That's a Wigan type definition of ambition isn't it?
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Which can only bode well for the Club.
From what I've seen and heard so far from him, he is already Villa indoctrined.............everything is we and it's obvious he will use all our available resources to enable the club (not just him) to achieve success.
This is what really confuses me the most about the "blue nose" stuff that some have been spouting on here, he's probably the least "blue nose" manager that shower have had in quite some time. Never played to the gallery by slagging us off, in fact quite the opposite. I could understand the uproar if he had decided to take cheap shots at us over the last few years, but he's maintained as much dignity as is possible when you're linked to that circus.
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Come now villadawg, don't put the dampers on things- look ahead and think positive , I think mcleish will be great for this club and in the days before he arrived was banging his drum- I'm pleased the fans are uniting behind him and let's all enjoy the journey , there will be highs and lows but I have a feeling Alex will deliver silverware to us during his time here.
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Which can only bode well for the Club.
From what I've seen and heard so far from him, he is already Villa indoctrined.............everything is we and it's obvious he will use all our available resources to enable the club (not just him) to achieve success.
This is what really confuses me the most about the "blue nose" stuff that some have been spouting on here, he's probably the least "blue nose" manager that shower have had in quite some time. Never played to the gallery by slagging us off, in fact quite the opposite. I could understand the uproar if he had decided to take cheap shots at us over the last few years, but he's maintained as much dignity as is possible when you're linked to that circus.
Loved it when he referred to them as small time after the CCQF
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FFS. Only time will tell. Give the bloke a chance. The players have. If he can revive the forgotten players under GH then we have a good squad.
Like most of us I hated the appointement of a relegated manager ( couldn't give a tinkers cuss about his previous club) but so far the vibes are good- and this group needs pragmatism and a good load of discipline.
I will support .
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I think he has done ok so far to be fair. Although I wasnt very impressed with our Bob Tisdall football style against Blackburn after we went ahead.
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Come now villadawg, don't put the dampers on things- look ahead and think positive , I think mcleish will be great for this club and in the days before he arrived was banging his drum- I'm pleased the fans are uniting behind him and let's all enjoy the journey , there will be highs and lows but I have a feeling Alex will deliver silverware to us during his time here.
You bang away mate and I wish you the best of luck. I can't help but base my outlook on the resources he is been given to work with.
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I think he has done ok so far to be fair. Although I wasnt very impressed with our Bob Tisdall football style against Blackburn after we went ahead.
Crikey-you do realise how hot it was on that pitch I take it?
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I must admit that McLeish's whole demeanour is very good. He kind of fits the club.
He appears to be very calm and professional and (at this moment in time) it just 'feels' right.
Ultimately though, time (and results) will tell
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He's come over as very humble indeed in every press conference and interview he's done. I agree, he seems to be very comfortable in the job already and there's a steely determination about him, and it's filtering it's way through to the players. I said somewhere else that the Luke Young interview was for me, very telling about the new order. He's always been quite blunt, and you could see that the players have reacted well to McLeish. It's as if McLeish isn't doing us a favour by being here. It's quite the opposite and he feels very priviledged to be our manager.
Great post Toronto. That has really hit home with me. There is definitely a "steely determination" he seems to have. I still think Lerner has already told him he is going to back him. And we are going to see a couple of suprise signings before the window closes ........
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Considering everything, I do think he seems strangely suited to the club.
I also think he will work doubly hard to prove his doubters wrong, harder than I'd imagine Benitez or another 'name' would have done. He has to otherwise he 's fucked.
It's a huge opportunity for him and hd knows it.
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Why is net spend an overwhelming indication of ambition? I would have thought finding gems and selling some of them periodically for over inflated prices at the right time, and then finding more gems would be a more intelligent way of running a football club. Wages paid should be better indicator of ambition, and if we find really good players for smaller transfer fees and pay them well based on a realistic salary scale isn't that a better way to retain our players, and build a more complete squad? Obviously in all that we have to be successful, but I'd rather find motivated hidden talent, a little bit like Wenger was doing for a while, than looking at how much we are spending to dictate whether are ambitious or not.
If this summer we were to spend less than we brought in, yet the players we do bring in are better for the squad, coupled with the players we have and our academy, as a club we'll be in a far healthier position.
That's a Wigan type definition of ambition isn't it?
No. It's an Arsenal type definition of ambition which is why I cited Wenger. If I wanted to use Wigan I'd have said Martinez or Bruce.
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AM hasnt done anything wrong yet so hard for anyone to give any valid justification to criticise him. The Chelski game in HK will be a good test of where we are in terms of preseason preparations, the players in the squad and identifying areas where we may need to strengthen. As long as we're playing good football and picking up results then the majority of sensible fans will give him their backing.
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Is Villadawg secretly gregnash in disguise?
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
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Is Villadawg secretly gregnash in disguise?
No
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Is Villadawg secretly gregnash in disguise?
No
not sure which of them would be offended the most by that suggestion !
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One thing I think Mcleish has done very well is not to try and win us over with Villa loving rhetoric or other such badge kissing-like nonsense. Instead, what he's done is get on wih his job and thus far, although granted in a limited time frame, done so quite well.
I think that's one of the things that's helped him in that we've been so busy talking about the players leaving, budgets, wagebills, net spends and the like, that's it's almost been fogotten he's our manager and we (mostly) didn't want him, so he's been clever in staying beneath the radar and not reminding us.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
Regardless of his status at SHA DW's comment is very valid.
DOL did nothing but rubbish us and talk down our status as a Club. MON always gave the impression that he was much too good for us and just waiting to grab his chance at Manue or Lpool. So it's good to see someone here who thinks that this is their "moment in life"
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One thing I think Mcleish has done very well is not to try and win us over with Villa loving rhetoric or other such badge kissing-like nonsense. Instead, what he's done is get on wih his job and thus far, although granted in a limited time frame, done so quite well.
I think that's one of the things that's helped him in that we've been so busy talking about the players leaving, budgets, wagebills, net spends and the like, that's it's almost been fogotten he's our manager and we (mostly) didn't want him, so he's been clever in staying beneath the radar and not reminding us.
yeh well said John. That's the one thing that's come across to me is the "just get on with it attitude" he's brought to the job. I think we all have to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and move on from last seasons issues. I get the impression the players want to, and it's starting to show in their training, performance and overall attitude. Tomorrow's another very good test. We might go down against Chelsea, but it will be with a fight which is all we can ask. Hey, we might even win!!
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
Regardless of his status at SHA DW's comment is very valid.
DOL did nothing but rubbish us and talk down our status as a Club. MON always gave the impression that he was much too good for us and just waiting to grab his chance at Manue or Lpool. So it's good to see someone here who thinks that this is their "moment in life"
i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
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i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
He talked the talk, but there was always that sense of control-freak surrounding him that he was the biggest thing at the club and everyone knew it.
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i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
He talked the talk, but there was always that sense of control-freak surrounding him that he was the biggest thing at the club and everyone knew it.
maybe so ,and he did like to be in control i wouldnt disagree but i do believe he was proud of the fact that he was manager of aston villa and realised how big a club this is , as does mcleish.
o leary on the other hand never really got the feel of the club, and too often belittled us.
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The thing with DOL was it started with the usual 'promise low, deliver high' approach he had at Leeds, to try and keep the weight of expectation off, with the 'babies' becoming the 'honest bunch of lads'. It was OK in that first season when we got to 6th, but if you do it while you're in the bottom half it takes on a whole different outlook.
Plus, of course, he was a twat.
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The thing with DOL was it started with the usual 'promise low, deliver high' approach he had at Leeds, to try and keep the weight of expectation off, with the 'babies' becoming the 'honest bunch of lads'. It was OK in that first season when we got to 6th, but if you do it while you're in the bottom half it takes on a whole different outlook.
Plus, of course, he was a twat.
John, I disagree with your use of the word "was". Please always refer to the twat in the present tense.
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He's no longer our twat, so is past tense to us. And thank the living lord fuck for that!
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Just looked up DOL on wikipedia, I see he's already lost his job at the UAE team.
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The thing with DOL was it started with the usual 'promise low, deliver high' approach he had at Leeds, to try and keep the weight of expectation off, with the 'babies' becoming the 'honest bunch of lads'. It was OK in that first season when we got to 6th, but if you do it while you're in the bottom half it takes on a whole different outlook.
Plus, of course, he was a twat.
My take on it too.
Though when it really went to shit in 2005/05 he couldn't help himself. The bigging up of opponents, the 'we're just little Villa' angle, competing with 'the Blackburn's and Charlton's of this world' all went into overdrive.
I did read a magazine article once about Carlton Cole, early part of the 2004/05 season and he said something like 'the gaffer has told us that when we enforce our natural game and get the ball down and play, not many sides can live with us,' so that defeatist gibberish wasn't dished out to the players. Not all the time anyroad.
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If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
Regardless of his status at SHA DW's comment is very valid.
DOL did nothing but rubbish us and talk down our status as a Club. MON always gave the impression that he was much too good for us and just waiting to grab his chance at Manue or Lpool. So it's good to see someone here who thinks that this is their "moment in life"
i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
I'd agree with that.
And now I'm off to scrub my face raw with disinfectant.
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Tv
If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
Regardless of his status at SHA DW's comment is very valid.
DOL did nothing but rubbish us and talk down our status as a Club. MON always gave the impression that he was much too good for us and just waiting to grab his chance at Manue or Lpool. So it's good to see someone here who thinks that this is their "moment in life"
i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
I'd agree with that.
And now I'm off to scrub my face raw with disinfectant.
If nothing else this is the first time for some time we have a manager who actually wants to be here.
Of course he wants to be at VP
He was on the verge of being sacked at Small Heath and he doubled his wages at Villa.
Regardless of his status at SHA DW's comment is very valid.
DOL did nothing but rubbish us and talk down our status as a Club. MON always gave the impression that he was much too good for us and just waiting to grab his chance at Manue or Lpool. So it's good to see someone here who thinks that this is their "moment in life"
i disagree about mon - i think he realised and respected the villa tradition and history and i believe during his time here he was proud to manage aston villa.
I'd agree with that.
And now I'm off to scrub my face raw with disinfectant.
I think he was at first then he started using us to push himself to the next level
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I think he was at first then he started using us to push himself to the next level
[/quote]
He's not the first to find that it's only downhill after the Villa!!
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Wasn't MON famous or rather infamous for only working (and asking the team to train) for only a few hours a day. Whilst he maybe understood Villa, he hardly felt sufficiently in awe that it motivated him to work harder or invest more time in training the young players.
McLeish, I think, will do anything possible to make sure he makes the most of his chance. At least I hope so.
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I would like to be optimistic, but I can't have any positive feeling about a manager that seriously threatens to condemn us to another season of Richard Dunne in the Starting XI, when we have Cjeran Clarke :-[!
If what I thought it was impossible should actually happen, I think that I'd take one-year sabbatical from football, I'm afraid. There is a limit to the humiliations that one is willing to suffer, even for a great passion like is for me AVFC. . .
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I would like to be optimistic, but I can't have any positive feeling about a manager that seriously threatens to condemn us to another season of Richard Dunne in the Starting XI, when we have Cjeran Clarke :-[!
If what I thought it was impossible should actually happen, I think that I'd take one-year sabbatical from football, I'm afraid. There is a limit to the humiliations that one is willing to suffer, even for a great passion like is for me AVFC. . .
why don't you give him a chance to see if that is exactly what he wants? We've played 3 friendies and Dunne was shown up in only one of those games. In a game where the entire team looked bagged and off pace. Give McLeish a chance to look at what he's got, and make that call over the next 4 weeks.
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Of course I'll do it, mate, hoping you're right, I have nothing against the manager as long as he doesn't make Dunne to play in the starting XI!
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I do not know where this assumption has come from that we hate McLeish because we do not rate him as a manager. I don't hate him. H and V apart I am in contact with about twenty loyal Villa fans on a regular basis and none of them hate him but none of them rate him as the quality of manager we need and had hoped for.
I think he passed the three point test- Is he available? Is he healthy? Will he do as he is told? The foreseeable future for Villa is one of retrenchment and McLeish is well suited for that. I see a future of the occasional memorable game but it will be mostly dull fare.
That is not winning me round or making me not hate him because I did not hate him to begin with it is a simple acceptance of the inevitable.
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Inevitable? Let's see shall we.
After ten games we will all be in some agreement one way or the other.
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Whereas GH never cared about the short-term (to the point of dragging us into a relegation battle), McLeish perhaps suspects that he won't have a long-term future at Villa if he doesn't hit the ground running. If he manages that, I can see him being a modest success, but even in that case it'll be success based on grinding out results. Sometimes I wonder if the board view McLeish is a long-term solution, or if he is someone to keep us bubbling along until Faulkner has trimmed the wage bill.
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I think that it is inevitable that come the start of the season Alex McLeish will be Alex McLeish and the squad of players he has at his disposal will be the squad.
Nobody knows better than we loyal fans who see the games all season long what the strengths and weaknesses of the squad are and what the strengths and weaknesses of Alex McLeish are.
There will be improvements to some players - perhaps Bannon and Delph and Ireland will surge under the guidance of this manager and give us the midfield dominance we have lacked for so long but then again perhaps they will not.
There are far too many if and maybes for the future to hold anything but uncertainty. For that reason Alex McLeish will batten down the hatches and play safety first football.
The first time we lose a home game the likes of James Nursey will have the Club In Crisis headline written before the players are off the park. Then you will hear the sound of hatches being battened.
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or if he is someone to keep us bubbling along until Faulkner has trimmed the wage bill.
...or Randy finds a buyer.