Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air on April 22, 2011, 08:14:32 AM
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This Sunday BBC2 9pm.
From the little I have heard, this should be a well made BBC drama with David Tennant.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12920379
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8467276/A-moving-BBC-drama-reunites-the-Busby-Babes.html
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If Tennant can keep that stupid wide eyed, gurning face to a minimum, it should be good.
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I shall be watching, Weller's written a new song for it (Devotion).
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From the trailer i'll be avoiding it. Looks like the usual sentimental guff
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I'm like watching drama like this it should be a good cheers for letting me know Andy.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
I know what you mean. I try to divorce my feelings about 'that club' from the more sympathetic ones I have about the football-mad working class youngsters who died.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
You're not alone.
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More maudlin sentimentality from the Beeb. You don't need a 'respectful' drama to give the people involved the dignity they deserve. I'll be giving it a miss.
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Great. Another Man U propaganda piece on the BBC. Didn't they have a Man U Night a few years back? It's no wonder so many small clubs are going bust when the media encourages everyone to be glory-hunters. Fergie still won't talk to them.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
You're not alone. There's plenty of stories about other clubs that could be retold by the BBC. How many times do we have to hear about Munich? I'd love to see a film made about the Villa team that refused to do the Nazi salute. What about a film about FC Torino and their air disaster?
There's a real fine line between keeping a story in the public eye because it is of genuine public concern/interest, and, in the case of Man Utd, using it as a tool to strengthen the brand. What about a film about Bradford, Ibrox or Bolton? It's high time other clubs' histories were given similar exposure and - dare I say it - a similar portion of TV licence money! (Rant over.)
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I wonder if the film will show Duncan Edwards as the dirty bastard that he was? Doubt it.
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Fergie still won't talk to them.
I was just about to post that.
It is also a long time since I last heard a song about Munich (having said that, I haven't been to a Liverpool-Man Utd match) - this could raise that unfortunate spectre once again.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
You're not alone. There's plenty of stories about other clubs that could be retold by the BBC. How many times do we have to hear about Munich? I'd love to see a film made about the Villa team that refused to do the Nazi salute. What about a film about FC Torino and their air disaster?
There's a real fine line between keeping a story in the public eye because it is of genuine public concern/interest, and, in the case of Man Utd, using it as a tool to strengthen the brand. What about a film about Bradford, Ibrox or Bolton? It's high time other clubs' histories were given similar exposure and - dare I say it - a similar portion of TV licence money! (Rant over.)
Jimmy McGovern's Hillsborough was a brilliant example of a football film that told a story that needed to be told. They showed it once, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying it wasn't repeated, and that's because it wasn't a drama for the family to enjoy over and over again. We know what happened at Munich to that group of young lads. All this does is create sentimentality out of an horrific incident.
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"Alive" without the cannibalism. Boring.
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Link (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/8118464/Jimmy-McGovern-BBC-worried-about-anti-Manchester-United-bias.html)
"Jimmy McGovern: BBC worried about 'anti-Manchester United bias'
The BBC objected to a drama by Jimmy McGovern because a character displayed "anti-Manchester United bias", the award-winning writer has claimed.
The Street featured an impressive cast, including Bob Hoskins and Timothy Spall Photo: BBC
By Anita Singh, Showbusiness Editor 7:00AM GMT 09 Nov 2010
McGovern said that scenes in his acclaimed BBC One drama, The Street, fell foul of the corporation's over-zealous 'compliance unit' because they could cause potential offence to Manchester United fans.
"I ask, 'What is the point of this unit?' And the response is, 'It's in case you cause offence'," McGovern told the Radio Times.
"They've asked questions, particularly about the anti-Manchester United bias in The Street. There was this big spiel about a character wanting to shoot Wayne Rooney and Rio Ferdinand. I told them every chance I get I write with anti-Manchester United bias.
"I'm a dramatist. Imagine on my tombstone if it read, 'Jimmy McGovern, writer - never offended anybody'. How would I feel? That's my job."
McGovern, creator of Cracker, is a Liverpool fan whose previous work includes an ITV docu-drama about the Hillsborough disaster.
Related Articles
•Jimmy McGovern's crusade against boredom
08 Sep 2007
•Screenwriters clash over state of TV drama
08 Nov 2010
•Interview: Bob Hoskins on The Street
10 Jul 2009
He is not the first television dramatist to complain about the compliance unit, which polices BBC content. Guidelines were tightened in the wake of the 'Sachsgate' affair involving Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand.
Tony Marchant, creator of BBC One drama Garrow's Law, was required to undertake a "Safeguarding Trust factual drama interactive module" last year. It included tips on depicting 'goodies' and 'baddies'. Marchant described it as "a complete nonsense".
However, McGovern said the BBC had been good to him in other respects. "There are no black people in my dramas, or very, very, few, but that's because I understand the white working class and I write about that. I don't think that's ever been put to us by the BBC."
His latest project is Accused, a series of six hour-long dramas about ordinary people who find themselves in the dock.
A BBC spokesman disputed McGovern's recollection. "The BBC compliance team has never told Jimmy he can't write with an anti-Manchester United bias. In fact, no-one at the BBC has ever told Jimmy what he can and cannot write at all. Occasionally people will ask questions about why he has chosen a particular theme or subject, but that's all.""
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
No. Me too. I feel for those who lost their lives and their families but I'm not going to watch it all the same.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
No. Me too. I feel for those who lost their lives and their families but I'm not going to watch it all the same.
Exactly how I feel, Manchester United became all I despise about football after that sad day, and on that basis I will not be watching !
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
No. Me too. I feel for those who lost their lives and their families but I'm not going to watch it all the same.
Exactly how I feel, Manchester United became all I despise about football after that sad day, and on that basis I will not be watching !
What? You hate Man United because of the Munich Air disaster?
I am tres confused.
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It was indeed a tragic day for the people involved and apparently a tragic day for football if you listen to any Manure fan who can remember back to the distant days before the Premiership. The media continue to push this story as if it is important to ALL football fans but I just don't want to hear about it. It's the same myth that suggests that Bobby Charlton was the best footballer of all time, followed closely by George Best.
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I shall be watching, Weller's written a new song for it (Devotion).
Definitely not watching it now.
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I won't watch it simply because, as a "football" drama, all of us "fans" of any allegiance are all "expected" to feel for the players, management, etc who died, as though nobody ever has before.
That's my opinion.
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I feel really bad not wanting to watch this just because it's about 'that' club.
How sad am I? Am I alone?
You're not alone. There's plenty of stories about other clubs that could be retold by the BBC. How many times do we have to hear about Munich? I'd love to see a film made about the Villa team that refused to do the Nazi salute. What about a film about FC Torino and their air disaster?
There's a real fine line between keeping a story in the public eye because it is of genuine public concern/interest, and, in the case of Man Utd, using it as a tool to strengthen the brand. What about a film about Bradford, Ibrox or Bolton? It's high time other clubs' histories were given similar exposure and - dare I say it - a similar portion of TV licence money! (Rant over.)
Jimmy McGovern's Hillsborough was a brilliant example of a football film that told a story that needed to be told. They showed it once, and I don't think I'm wrong in saying it wasn't repeated, and that's because it wasn't a drama for the family to enjoy over and over again. We know what happened at Munich to that group of young lads. All this does is create sentimentality out of an horrific incident.
The thing is that that "sentimentality", for the marketing men, equates to "mystique". It adds to the brand, gains the club fans across the world and adds millions to the club's value. A good comparison of how two clubs have handled similar, tragic, events would be to observe how Torino in Italy handled their club's air disaster (I think it happened in 1949). It's like chalk and cheese when compared to Man Utd.
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I shall be watching, Weller's written a new song for it (Devotion).
Definitely not watching it now.
God you're unpredictable.
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Tv in general and the BBC in particular are so far up the arse of anything to do with Manchester it is ridiculous. Almost every programme in the past few years seems to be based in Manchester, like there are no other cities in Britain worth using, the BBC are moving a lot of their output up there, whilst they close down a lot of their opertions in Birmingham. they get the Commonwealth games, while we get laughed at when we bid for major sporting events.
Rant over.
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I wasn't around at the time but have always understood that the Munich air crash was an event of national importance in the UK i.e. exactly the kind of event that the BBC would create a drama programme about. It's nothing to do with a Man Utd bias is it?
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
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heh. if the trailer is anything to go by its going to be the usual bestest bestest players in the world, in the bestest team in the world who were gonna win everything evoh if only they lived sentinmetal slush-fest. The way they got a team together afterwards is a decent story i think, but the rest......
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
This
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Frankly, I'm surprised at the high level of negativity in this thread.
I am anti Man U on a football supporting level and have been for 25-30 years, but I dont get this 'BBC are all Man U fans' line.
Its a drama based on real life events of which most people are aware even if they have no interest in football at all.
I have no idea if it will be well done or not but intend to watch and will then decide.
The BBC are capable of producing high quality human interest drama as well as sentimental rubbish, it could be either.
If it turns out to be a programme all about Duncan Edwards etc being the best players and best people ever, never having anything less than a 9/10 match performance, then its a wasted opportunity.
I will watch hoping it is drama done at its best, in this case something transcending football. Namely, how people behave when faced with extreme tragic events around them which can either bring out the very best of human nature or see people falling apart. Often this is done best focussing on the minutae, small things of great importance to individuals and family rather than speculating about how they may have gone on and won everything for club and country if they had lived.
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
I'll be a monkey's uncle if that club are displayed by the beeb in anything like such a poor light Dave, but I thank you for giving me reason to hate them all the more.
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I might watch it for the historical interest. I know that was then and this is now, Duncan Edwards also did national service.
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The Times this morning says it's very 'Mawkish' and that the actor playing Matt Busby isn't very good.
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
I'll be a monkey's uncle if that club are displayed by the beeb in anything like such a poor light Dave, but I thank you for giving me reason to hate them all the more.
We all know so much about it because it has received more than enough coverage over the years. If the BBC wishes to spend licence fee payers' money on football documentaries/dramas my view would be that other clubs' histories need to be looked at too - and it would surely be just as interesting? The Burnden Park disaster of 1946 would be a valuable topic to look at on an historical level: thirty-three people crushed to death and the media don't seem to be remotely interested.
There are other aspects of football history and stories that are as worthy of examination. As I said in a previous post, the story of Villa's trip to Germany and the team's refusal to do the Nazi salute - despite huge pressure from the FA and government diplomats - would make a fantastic drama.
Alas, it would appear some clubs' histories and disasters are more worthy than others. I'd like to know how the media dictates and decides such things because, at the end of the day, such decisions have a huge impact on a club's support, image and finances.
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
I'll be a monkey's uncle if that club are displayed by the beeb in anything like such a poor light Dave, but I thank you for giving me reason to hate them all the more.
We all know so much about it because it has received more than enough coverage over the years. If the BBC wishes to spend licence fee payers' money on football documentaries/dramas my view would be that other clubs' histories need to be looked at too - and it would surely be just as interesting? The Burnden Park disaster of 1946 would be a valuable topic to look at on an historical level: thirty-three people crushed to death and the media don't seem to be remotely interested.
There are other aspects of football history and stories that are as worthy of examination. As I said in a previous post, the story of Villa's trip to Germany and the team's refusal to do the Nazi salute - despite huge pressure from the FA and government diplomats - would make a fantastic drama.
Alas, it would appear some clubs' histories and disasters are more worthy than others. I'd like to know how the media dictates and decides such things because, at the end of the day, such decisions have a huge impact on a club's support, image and finances.
Although they shouldn't be, the BBC are chasing ratings and anything with the name "Manchester United" in will attract viewers however unpallatable we may find it.
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And also, possibly, because it's the biggest English football story of all time.
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It's also the reason they started to get supporters from all over the country. They don't need any more.
I'd rather see a documentary about something that isn't already so well known. That bloke Friday that used to play for Reading or something like that.
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It's also the reason they started to get supporters from all over the country. They don't need any more.
I'd rather see a documentary about something that isn't already so well known. That bloke Friday that used to play for Reading or something like that.
Robin Friday ? I read the book about him,it's a really interesting story,seemed quite a maverick,and as there's no footage of him,and no one knows much about him,it would make a good drama.
Unless you're talking of Crusoe's Friday,didnt know he played for Reading!
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Take away the hysteria whenever Manchester United get mentioned.
If this is any good it will be a fascinating programme. Munich is one of those things that everyone knows about but few people know much about. There could be some really interesting human interest stuff - the Arsenal player who could have injured Duncan Edwards the Saturday before and regretted that he didn't for the rest of his life, Edwards' fight for life, Harry Gregg going back into the plane to rescue injured survivors (including the pregnant Mrs 'not mother of John' Lukic) and the diablical way United treated widows and survivors, including evicting them from club houses, making them pay to see mementoes they donated to the cub museum and Cantona getting more money than they did from the tribute match.
I'll be a monkey's uncle if that club are displayed by the beeb in anything like such a poor light Dave, but I thank you for giving me reason to hate them all the more.
We all know so much about it because it has received more than enough coverage over the years. If the BBC wishes to spend licence fee payers' money on football documentaries/dramas my view would be that other clubs' histories need to be looked at too - and it would surely be just as interesting? The Burnden Park disaster of 1946 would be a valuable topic to look at on an historical level: thirty-three people crushed to death and the media don't seem to be remotely interested.
There are other aspects of football history and stories that are as worthy of examination. As I said in a previous post, the story of Villa's trip to Germany and the team's refusal to do the Nazi salute - despite huge pressure from the FA and government diplomats - would make a fantastic drama.
Alas, it would appear some clubs' histories and disasters are more worthy than others. I'd like to know how the media dictates and decides such things because, at the end of the day, such decisions have a huge impact on a club's support, image and finances.
Although they shouldn't be, the BBC are chasing ratings and anything with the name "Manchester United" in will attract viewers however unpallatable we may find it.
Well it's chicken and egg, surely? This business of the name "Manchester United" attracting viewers is only because the media built up the name in the first place. The media (and Man Utd's willingness to play the media game) is what has created this situation. (The Susan Boyle Effect.)
Dave, your point that it is possibly the biggest English footballing story of all time? Again, such a perception is down to the media, surely? It's an awful story, a shocking tragedy - but I've had a bellyful of it and know more than I ever could want to know about it now. The same applies to Hillsborough. If the media wishes to cast its light on football clubs and their histories than it surely is time to look at other clubs? Bolton, Ibrox and FC Torino for starters. There's as much history and drama in there. It would be as refreshing and interesting to hear the stories of these clubs.
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Well its certainly provoking controversy in some quarters.
The makers of a BBC film about the Munich air crash have been accused of insulting and exploiting the memory of those killed and injured.
Sandy Busby, son of the legendary Manchester United manager Sir Matt, described the £2million production as a ‘piece of rubbish’ which made his father look like a gangster.
Former United goalkeeper Harry Gregg, who became known as the hero of Munich after pulling injured victims from the blazing wreckage, said the film was an ‘embarrassment’ and added that he had asked for his name to be removed from the credits.
He said that scenes including one where a player is shown smoking a pipe in the tunnel before the game were an ‘affront’ to the dead.
And the wife of surviving defender Bill Foulkes, who led the team out at Wembley four months after the crash which claimed 23 lives, said it was a ‘shocking insult’ that he was not even mentioned in the film. The 90-minute production, starring former Doctor Who actor David Tennant, is to be screened tomorrow night. It focuses on the roles of Bobby Charlton, who was 20 at the time of the crash, and assistant manager Jimmy Murphy.
Part of the film portrays how Murphy helped rebuild the team as Busby recovered from life-threatening injuries
In previewing and promoting the film, Tennant, who plays Murphy, claimed: ‘I dare say the film will go out and people will find reason to quibble with certain details but the research was fastidious. It is as close to the truth as we can find.’
One survivor responded: ‘This may have been the sort of “fastidious” research they have for Doctor Who, but not for a deeply emotional and painful episode such as happened at Munich.’
The film, United, is loosely based on the events of February 1958, when the brilliant young team known as the Busby Babes were returning from Belgrade after playing a European Cup match against the Red Star team.
After the team’s chartered aircraft refuelled at Munich, British European Airways flight 609 crashed on its third attempt to take off from the slush-covered runway.
Twenty of the 44 on board were killed in the crash and another three died of their injuries in hospital in the days that followed. Eight players were among the dead, including 21-year-old Duncan Edwards, who was already regarded as one of the greatest British players of all time.
Harry Gregg, now 78 and living in his native Northern Ireland, said: ‘The film portrays the team – one of the finest in the world at the time – as a pub team.
‘It gives a false picture of football at that time and the way in which Matt Busby created his visionary team.
‘There are a number of scenes where Mark Jones (a defender who died in the crash) is seen smoking a pipe, including in the changing room and in the tunnel before the game. I know there’s poetic licence but that’s ridiculous, insulting and an affront to the players and their memories.’
The film ignores the deaths of a senior member of the United management team, Walter Crickmer, coaches Bert Whalley and Tom Curry, and eight journalists, including the Daily Mail’s Eric Thompson. It also overlooks the dedication of the pilot Captain James Thain, who helped pull survivors from the wreckage.
Dougray Scott’s portrayal of Matt Busby is criticised as being ‘sadly distorted and misleading’. Sandy Busby, who still has links with United, added: ‘They’ve put my dad in a long overcoat and a trilby hat and in doing so have made him more like a gangster.
‘In the film he never once appears in a tracksuit, despite the fact he was one of the first post-war managers known for putting on a tracksuit and getting out on the training pitch.
‘I was never consulted about the film and now having seen it, I’m glad I had nothing to do with it.’
Bill Foulkes, one of the eight survivors still alive, was unable to participate in the making of the film because of a long-term medical condition. His wife Teresa said: ‘How can they not mention Bill in the film? He’s erased from the story as if he never existed.’
A BBC spokesman said: ‘The film is a drama not a documentary. It was a dramatic choice to focus on the stories of Jimmy Murphy and Bobby Charlton but the same story could have been told in many ways as all are equally important.
‘The film was researched using biographies, testimonies, documentaries, personal accounts, first-hand interviews and Manchester United FC Museum.
‘The story of the Busby Babes is of huge social and cultural significance in this country and this film is a respectful and fitting portrayal of the spirit of the club and community as they fought to overcome this tragedy.
‘As soon as the film was finished, a private screening was arranged in Manchester for the survivors of the film and the relatives of those who lost their lives. No one came forward to object.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1379752/BBCs-Munich-air-crash-film-insulting-rubbish-says-Sandy-Busby.html
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If it's "loosely based" on the story then you would expect some anomalies of the type described above.
It's nice of the Daily Mail to use the feelings of those involved to continue their vendetta against the BBC though.
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would much rather see a documentary on the FA cup final of the previous year,
i think the mighty Busby Babes lost, you know the ones that were the greatest ever football team etc
as for the Munich program, i havent got a problem with it,
i've long since acepted that Man Utd are the Nations team, the establishment if you like, its not going to change
there fans sing 'we can do what we want' because they can, they sing they are bigger than England because they are
in 58 Man Utd were a fine football club, in 2000 they pulled out of the FA cup to spread the franchise and build the brand, thats what they have become a global brand
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I shall be watching, Weller's written a new song for it (Devotion).
I hope it is a new song and not a cover version of Ten City.
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While I dislike Man U, the FA forced them to pull out of the FA Cup.
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While I dislike Man U, the FA forced them to pull out of the FA Cup.
yeah, cus Fergie always does everything the FA says
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While I dislike Man U, the FA forced them to pull out of the FA Cup.
yeah, cus Fergie always does everything the FA says
He has to. They're to blame for so much but this one wasn't their fault.
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While I dislike Man U, the FA forced them to pull out of the FA Cup.
yeah, cus Fergie always does everything the FA says
He has to. They're to blame for so much but this one wasn't their fault.
Anybody think the BBC have asked Fergie for an interview?...........Nope.
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Manchester United - what the Off button is for.
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For those who think the Beeb are blowing smoke up Manchester Uniteds arse, I'd avoid BBC2 on Thursday evening.
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For those who think the Beeb are blowing smoke up Manchester Uniteds arse, I'd avoid BBC2 on Thursday evening.
Why is 2 pints and a packet back on?
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it is my opinion that this topic has no place on this board.
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would much rather see a documentary on the FA cup final of the previous year,
i think the mighty Busby Babes lost, you know the ones that were the greatest ever football team etc
/quote]
Actually the BBC did produce a documentary on this a couple of yrs back. It compared the '57 final with the 2007(?) final. I seem to recall that Villa had a lot of positive coverage in that.
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I loath pretty much everything about MU today, as indeed I do about many aspects of the "game" today, so I think it's as well to remember that in 1958, times really were different. There was far more respect for other teams and opposition players based purely on merit and appreciation of footballing skills.
Supporting Villa as a 12 year old I was nevertheless as enthralled by the skills of Johnny Haynes, Nat Lofthouse and Bobby Charlton as I was of Peter McParland, and the Munich disaster was seen by most of the country as just that - a disaster, not because they were from any particular team, but because they had been young, talented, exciting players, who were mostly at the start of their careers.
It was a different time and players were still working class kids who played for the minimum wage and who supporters could easily identify with, regardless of the team they played for.
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would much rather see a documentary on the FA cup final of the previous year,
i think the mighty Busby Babes lost, you know the ones that were the greatest ever football team etc
There was a documentary on BBC4 about this a few years ago - possibly 2007, the 50th anniversary.
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it is my opinion that this topic has no place on this board.
Your entitled to your opinion my friend, but I would hope we continue to discuss other football related topics in addition to Ashley Youngs free kicks and Richard Dunnes waistline.
The accepted protocol is to mark the topic '0%Villa' which is what I did.
Having said that, one of our players Stan Crowther joined Man U as part of the need for them to field a 1st team for the rest of that season.
Stan started out with Aston Villa, with whom he won the FA Cup in 1957, beating Manchester United 2-1 in the final. Less than a year later, in February 1958, Stan had signed for United for £18,000 in the wake of the Munich air disaster, and scored on his debut against Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup!
Stan’s signing was remarkable as he wasn’t too keen to leave Villa. Manchester United’s stand-in manager Jimmy Murphy recalls: "Eric Houghton was Villa manager at the time and he had told Stan that we were interested in him. He didn't want to leave Villa, but Eric got him to come to Old Trafford to watch the Sheffield Wednesday game.
“On the way up he told him he thought that he should help us out, but Stan told him he hadn't brought any kit with him. ‘Don't worry, I've got your boots in my bag’, Eric said. We met at about half-past five and an hour before the kick-off he'd signed!"
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Without looking it up I think Stan Crowther regretted leaving Villa from the moment he left and was out of football within a couple of years.
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It's also the reason they started to get supporters from all over the country. They don't need any more.
I'd rather see a documentary about something that isn't already so well known. That bloke Friday that used to play for Reading or something like that.
My Mate wrote a book on William Garbutt, 'The Godfather of Italian football'
He went over there and radically changed the Italian game, because of him Italian players still refer to the Manager as 'Gaffer.'
That would make a good documentary.
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it is my opinion that this topic has no place on this board.
Your entitled to your opinion my friend, but I would hope we continue to discuss other football related topics in addition to Ashley Youngs free kicks and Richard Dunnes waistline.
The accepted protocol is to mark the topic '0%Villa' which is what I did.
Having said that, one of our players Stan Crowther joined Man U as part of the need for them to field a 1st team for the rest of that season.
Stan started out with Aston Villa, with whom he won the FA Cup in 1957, beating Manchester United 2-1 in the final. Less than a year later, in February 1958, Stan had signed for United for £18,000 in the wake of the Munich air disaster, and scored on his debut against Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup!
Stan’s signing was remarkable as he wasn’t too keen to leave Villa. Manchester United’s stand-in manager Jimmy Murphy recalls: "Eric Houghton was Villa manager at the time and he had told Stan that we were interested in him. He didn't want to leave Villa, but Eric got him to come to Old Trafford to watch the Sheffield Wednesday game.
“On the way up he told him he thought that he should help us out, but Stan told him he hadn't brought any kit with him. ‘Don't worry, I've got your boots in my bag’, Eric said. We met at about half-past five and an hour before the kick-off he'd signed!"
It's very kind of you to respect my opinion and I too, respect yours and would agree that other football related matters are suitable subjects for discussion. The red scum, beelzebub and all their works, the munich myth and all that surrounds it are not suitable for this board even labelled 0% Villa. Please keep it to the Board labelled Off Topic if only so that everyone who is sick of their profile is not subjected to it. I come here for Villa related news and views not for updates on manc related lies.
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Mal, I reckon it would not be beyond even the most intellectually challenged person to realise that a thread labelled "0% Villa-BBC Drama on Munich air crash" was not going to be about Aston Villa no matter which forum it was in. If you are not interested, don't click on it, and definitely don't post in it to register your disinterest!
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It's also the reason they started to get supporters from all over the country. They don't need any more.
I'd rather see a documentary about something that isn't already so well known. That bloke Friday that used to play for Reading or something like that.
My Mate wrote a book on William Garbutt, 'The Godfather of Italian football'
He went over there and radically changed the Italian game, because of him Italian players still refer to the Manager as 'Gaffer.'
That would make a good documentary.
Who was the bloke who used to manage us in the twenties or thirties who went across to Mainland Europe to manage? I think he went to an Austrian club. His would be an interesting story too.
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It's also the reason they started to get supporters from all over the country. They don't need any more.
I'd rather see a documentary about something that isn't already so well known. That bloke Friday that used to play for Reading or something like that.
My Mate wrote a book on William Garbutt, 'The Godfather of Italian football'
He went over there and radically changed the Italian game, because of him Italian players still refer to the Manager as 'Gaffer.'
That would make a good documentary.
Who was the bloke who used to manage us in the twenties or thirties who went across to Mainland Europe to manage? I think he went to an Austrian club. His would be an interesting story too.
Jimmy Hogan. He managed abroad before coming to Villa and his career was virtually ended by the war.
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Anyone mentioned the Charlton documentary on BBC 2 on Thursday yet?...
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it is my opinion that this topic has no place on this board.
Your entitled to your opinion my friend, but I would hope we continue to discuss other football related topics in addition to Ashley Youngs free kicks and Richard Dunnes waistline.
The accepted protocol is to mark the topic '0%Villa' which is what I did.
Having said that, one of our players Stan Crowther joined Man U as part of the need for them to field a 1st team for the rest of that season.
Stan started out with Aston Villa, with whom he won the FA Cup in 1957, beating Manchester United 2-1 in the final. Less than a year later, in February 1958, Stan had signed for United for £18,000 in the wake of the Munich air disaster, and scored on his debut against Sheffield Wednesday in the FA Cup!
Stan’s signing was remarkable as he wasn’t too keen to leave Villa. Manchester United’s stand-in manager Jimmy Murphy recalls: "Eric Houghton was Villa manager at the time and he had told Stan that we were interested in him. He didn't want to leave Villa, but Eric got him to come to Old Trafford to watch the Sheffield Wednesday game.
“On the way up he told him he thought that he should help us out, but Stan told him he hadn't brought any kit with him. ‘Don't worry, I've got your boots in my bag’, Eric said. We met at about half-past five and an hour before the kick-off he'd signed!"
It's very kind of you to respect my opinion and I too, respect yours and would agree that other football related matters are suitable subjects for discussion. The red scum, beelzebub and all their works, the munich myth and all that surrounds it are not suitable for this board even labelled 0% Villa. Please keep it to the Board labelled Off Topic if only so that everyone who is sick of their profile is not subjected to it. I come here for Villa related news and views not for updates on manc related lies.
The Munich air disaster was an awful, awful tragedy which killed a lot of human beings. The fact that they played for Manchester United should make no difference whatsoever, they were kids who had their young lives cut short. I hate Man United as much as the next guy but the Munich air disaster transcends my allegiance to the Villa and I hope to God it never happens again. I'd suggest you stay clear of any thread title that doesn't indicate a Villa connection if it upsets you that much.
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Where do the lies come in?
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Who's the bond villain with the Russian accent playing Matt Busby?
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This is absolutely shite.
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Who is the player smoking the pipe ??
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How come no-one on TV can do a Midlands accent? The dialect of the bloke playing Duncan Edwards is laughable
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How come no-one on TV can do a Midlands accent? The dialect of the bloke playing Duncan Edwards is laughable
It's bloody awful. Why don't they just use an actor FROM the Mildlands?
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That accent is all over the shop.
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Matt Busby sounds like the KGB bloke played by Robbie Coltrane in Goldeneye. :o
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Good to see that the relationship between United and the footballing authorities has not changed much
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Well that could have been better.
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It was a bit of a disappointment.
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I didn't think it was possible to have a more boring 90 minutes that yesterday afternoon but they managed it quite comfortably.
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David Tennant has become endemic, like bedbugs, or herpes.
He is on some shite on Radio 3 shortly, a musical about the life of Franz Kafka. I fucking kid you not
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Not the most engaging docu-drama I've ever seen. Terrible of me I know but when they showed the coffins laid out in the gym I thought 'they've laid them out 3-4-3, I thought it should have been 4-2-4'
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Caught the last bit.
Fucking hell Dougrey Scott was bloody awful. Which is an impression I get from most of his films TBF.
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David Tennant has become endemic, like bedbugs, or herpes.
He is on some shite on Radio 3 shortly, a musical about the life of Franz Kafka. I fucking kid you not
Talking of David Tennant, going off on a slight tangent, I found myself in the horrid position of strongly agreeing with that gigantic wanker A. A. Gill about something today, with his rant about Doctor Who.
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Talking of David Tennant, going off on a slight tangent, I found myself in the horrid position of strongly agreeing with that gigantic wanker A. A. Gill about something today, with his rant about Doctor Who.
Isn't that the norm for him?
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David Tennant thinks he is some kind of Renaissance Man, 'I can play Dr Who, and Hamlet, and Duncan Edwards, and Franz Kafka.'
Only problem is he plays them all the same. His Dr Who in particular was excrement
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Never underestimate the appalling power of gurning in this decadent, deranged epoch of the the death agony of global capitalism. Tennant is a man of his time.
Further evidence: the ubiquitous Davina McCall.
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Not the most engaging docu-drama I've ever seen. Terrible of me I know but when they showed the coffins laid out in the gym I thought 'they've laid them out 3-4-3, I thought it should have been 4-2-4'
god i'm a sick puppy but that made me larf. mind you that pensioner who fell off a ladder and drowned in the water barrel kept me giggling for days
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the appalling power of gurning in this decadent, deranged epoch of the the death agony of global capitalism.
Hablas Ingles?
???
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Well I dont think it was the BBC being up Man U's arse as many suggested, nor did I think it was disrespectful as the Daily Mail tried to make out.
It tried to be low key and understated, as demonstrated by the way they portrayed the actual crash switching immediately from the plane shaking to the quiet of burning wreckage in the snow.
Overall though I think it missed out, the production was a bit of a non event about a very major event.
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It was ok, but not terribly memorable - as a piece of television I mean of course
What spoiled it for me were the terrible cliches designed to appeal to someone with a mental age of about ten - the bit with Charlton outside the ground in the middle of the night not being able to sleep prior to his debut and his twee discussion with the 'bobby' was particularly cringeworthy
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Caught the last bit.
Fucking hell Dougrey Scott was bloody awful. Which is an impression I get from most of his films TBF.
He was good in Twin Town.
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Thank fook , I watched Carry on Camping.
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Put it on at half-ten to hear the nice little tune from Jah at the end. Short but very sweet.
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It was okay till the last ten minutes, the shark jumping on to the boat was ridiculous and looked obviously fake.
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I liked the bit where Matt Busby survived a nuclear explosion by sitting in a fridge.
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The bit where Jimmy Murphy danced on the large keyboard in the toy shop was quite clearly cribbed from Tom Hanks' 'Big.'
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It was alright, but could have done with a dinosaur or two.
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Not the most realistic bit, when Matt Busby loads the virus onto the Aliens computer.
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I couldn't believe it when David Tennant got into the TARDIS and changed history and made Man U win the 1957 FA Cup Final.
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I couldn't believe it when David Tennant got into the TARDIS and changed history and made Man U win the 1957 FA Cup Final.
Actually, that wouldn't surprise me.
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Just seen advertised next week on BBC - Bobby Charlton, A Football Icon. On next week. More BBC ManU propaganda.
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I have no problem with Man U related events getting more coverage in relation to the fact that they have more followers.
In the same way that Gerard Houlliers present health problems make the national sports media. If say the manager of Accrington or Morecambe had the same health scare, it would not register outside of the local media even though the significance to the individual, his family and personal acquaintances would be the same.
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I watched the programme and thought it was a bit shit.
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Never underestimate the appalling power of gurning in this decadent, deranged epoch of the the death agony of global capitalism. Tennant is a man of his time.
Further evidence: the ubiquitous Davina McCall.
I totally agree with the above.........whatever epoch means?
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Never underestimate the appalling power of gurning in this decadent, deranged epoch of the the death agony of global capitalism. Tennant is a man of his time.
Further evidence: the ubiquitous Davina McCall.
I totally agree with the above.........whatever epoch means?
In the fields of chronology and periodization, an epoch means an instant in time chosen as the origin of a particular era. The "epoch" then serves as a reference point from which time is measured. Time measurement units are counted from the epoch so that the date and time of events can be specified unambiguously.
Events taking place before the epoch can be dated by counting negatively from the epoch, though in pragmatic periodization practice, epochs are defined for the past, and another epoch is used to start the next era, therefore serving as the ending of the older preceding era. The whole purpose and criteria of such definitions is to clarify and co-ordinate scholarship about a period, at times, across disciplines.
Epochs are generally chosen to be convenient or significant by a consensus of the time scale's initial users, or by authoritarian fiat. The epoch moment or date is usually defined by a specific clear event, condition, or criteria— the epoch event or epoch criteria —from which the period or era or age is usually characterized or described.
.....Well thats what Wikipedia said, so its probably lies. ;D
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Never underestimate the appalling power of gurning in this decadent, deranged epoch of the the death agony of global capitalism. Tennant is a man of his time.
Further evidence: the ubiquitous Davina McCall.
I totally agree with the above.........whatever epoch means?
In the fields of chronology and periodization, an epoch means an instant in time chosen as the origin of a particular era. The "epoch" then serves as a reference point from which time is measured. Time measurement units are counted from the epoch so that the date and time of events can be specified unambiguously.
Events taking place before the epoch can be dated by counting negatively from the epoch, though in pragmatic periodization practice, epochs are defined for the past, and another epoch is used to start the next era, therefore serving as the ending of the older preceding era. The whole purpose and criteria of such definitions is to clarify and co-ordinate scholarship about a period, at times, across disciplines.
Epochs are generally chosen to be convenient or significant by a consensus of the time scale's initial users, or by authoritarian fiat. The epoch moment or date is usually defined by a specific clear event, condition, or criteria— the epoch event or epoch criteria —from which the period or era or age is usually characterized or described.
.....Well thats what Wikipedia said, so its probably lies. ;D
That's the first intelligent post of any interest in this thread. I always liked Andy Lochhead, not that that has anything to do with it.
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I quite enjoyed it. I thought the lad who played the young Bobby Charlton was a very good actor (it's the first time I've ever liked Bobby Charlton).
But the chant/song from the 50's no less..."There's only one Bobby Charlton"....how could they get something so wrong?
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Talking of David Tennant, going off on a slight tangent, I found myself in the horrid position of strongly agreeing with that gigantic wanker A. A. Gill about something today, with his rant about Doctor Who.
Isn't that the norm for him?
Just curious but what did this Gill bloke say?
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A.A.Gill? Weren't he the author in the yellow pages advert? :o
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A friend of mine used to swear blind that (this was in the 80s) one of the biggest institutional share holders in Manchester United was the BBC pension fund, and this was why they fawned over them so much, even when they went 26 years or whatever it was without winning the league.
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Talking of David Tennant, going off on a slight tangent, I found myself in the horrid position of strongly agreeing with that gigantic wanker A. A. Gill about something today, with his rant about Doctor Who.
Isn't that the norm for him?
Just curious but what did this Gill bloke say?
I'd copy and paste it, but the Times is paywalled.
Basically that it sucks up a gigantic slice of the Beeb's drama budget, they won't have a bad word said about it, and it is stale and beyond its sell by date.
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He can piss off then. I like it.
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Just watched the programme.
I thought parts of it were excellent, such as David Tennant's performance.
Other parts not so great. They made the Busby character seem a bit gangsterish, and probably not enough backround on some of the players.
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What struck me after watching it, in these days of counselling and the understanding of the impact of post traumatic stress was that players like Gregg, Foulkes and Charlton were back playing within a couple of weeks of the disaster.
Given they had been in the disaster themselves and were lucky to escape with their lives - and lost their friends and people they worked with, it seems astonishing now. Charlton i,n particular,was only a kid and yet he went on to become one of the finest post war players this country has produced.
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It is also a long time since I last heard a song about Munich... this could raise that unfortunate spectre once again.
Apparently Citeh fans were chanting Munich songs at Blackburn last night.
Perhaps the born-again Blue half of Manchester are unaware that one of those who died in the crash was Frank Swift.
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A friend of mine used to swear blind that (this was in the 80s) one of the biggest institutional share holders in Manchester United was the BBC pension fund, and this was why they fawned over them so much, even when they went 26 years or whatever it was without winning the league.
The BBC didn't manage their own pension fund. This would have been done for them by an Investment Bank. Nice urban myth though.
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A friend of mine used to swear blind that (this was in the 80s) one of the biggest institutional share holders in Manchester United was the BBC pension fund, and this was why they fawned over them so much, even when they went 26 years or whatever it was without winning the league.
The BBC didn't manage their own pension fund. This would have been done for them by an Investment Bank. Nice urban myth though.
That's what I suspected, but hang on .....
It wasn't just the 40,700 fans at Old Trafford who cheered the Red Devils - as they are sometimes admiringly known - after winning their first league championship for 26 years. All BBC pensioners, past and future (the latter presumably now including director-general John Birt among their number), had good reason to feel celebratory. The BBC Pension Fund has a 4.24% stake in Manchester United Football Club, one of only three quoted on the stock market.
http://www.managementtoday.co.uk/news/409021/UK-BBC-SCORES---MANCHESTER-UNITED/?DCMP=ILC-SEARCH
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Talking of David Tennant, going off on a slight tangent, I found myself in the horrid position of strongly agreeing with that gigantic wanker A. A. Gill about something today, with his rant about Doctor Who.
Isn't that the norm for him?
Just curious but what did this Gill bloke say?
I'd copy and paste it, but the Times is paywalled.
Basically that it sucks up a gigantic slice of the Beeb's drama budget, they won't have a bad word said about it, and it is stale and beyond its sell by date.
Oh right. I inferred from the talk of David Tennant that he was talking about Tennant himself rather than Dr Who in general. Yeah I think he's talking rubbish too in that case.
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Even so, the BBC wouldn't have necessarily been involved in the investment directly, though if they owned 4.24% in the 80s and kept it they will have made an absolute killing. Which is tremendous news... for the BBC pension fund. Eat your heart out Damon.