Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: dorsetvillian on January 09, 2011, 12:03:09 PM
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I went to the game yesterday along with 8 others from Bournemouth and we all enjoyed a good day out and seing a Villa win.
I don't know if anyone else noticed in the seconf half, but there was a very long touch line argument lasting several minutes between Downing and Gary Mac. Not sure what it was all about, but Gary Mac ended up throwing his arms up in the air, turning his back on Downing and marching back into the dugout.
This incident sums up the Houllier regime for me and maybe confirms that all is not well between players and the management team. Without some kind of unity being shown very quickly we are heading for even more turmoil this sesason.
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FFS are you serious? Can they not at least keep it behind closed doors?
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its people highlighting arguments that cause the problem as much as anything . every club and training ground has bust ups.
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Jesus Christ, people are really trying their best to moan about something aren't they.
Arguments happen all the time, so what?
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I think it's noteworthy considering the rumours of disharmony seem to be coming out every couple of days.
I'd have thought Downing would back down from an argument with a 6 year old girl, so if even he's standing up to the guy it doesn't look good for GMac.
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yawn.
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What's happened with the so called story of the dressing room bust up that was going to come out yesterday?
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What's happened with the so called story of the dressing room bust up that was going to come out yesterday?
It did with Bobby.
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I would be more worried when they stop arguing and can't be bothered.
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Last week it was Houliier apparently having a massive row with Albrighton, then somebody posts about talking to Marc's dad who said that he was really happy working with him. If people are looking for problems then they'll find them but I prefer to take it all with pinch of salt.
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Did anyone watch McAllister's press conference recently? He said that arguments/disagreements happen all the time during the course of a season. It's enough that right now the media are looking for every little thing, but surely we don't need to point out and analyze every incident between players and staff. At every club there are going to be moments like this. The way recent events at Villa have been reported you'd honestly think it was just us, and it never happens at Arsenal, Man U or Barcelona. You'd be really naive if you believed that.
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What's happened with the so called story of the dressing room bust up that was going to come out yesterday?
It did with Bobby.
Got a link?
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Oh my god! Players and management having a discussion, even daring to disagree with another!
That has never happened before! It doesn't happen almost every game at every club at the land.
This is completely unprecedented.
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jesus, a while back one of our players was having a fight with the ex-manager. Now a couple of cross words and we're in crisis.
Mad.
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if the players are angry that means they actually care.
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jesus, a while back one of our players was having a fight with the ex-manager. Now a couple of cross words and we're in crisis.
Mad.
If true, the assistant manager and one of the subs spending several minutes arguing on the touchline during a match is a valid topic of discussion on here, regardless of whether some would rather not hear about it or consider the implications.
We're not in crisis because of a couple of cross words, we're in crisis because under Gerard Houllier we are taking fewer points than every other team in the league.
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jesus, a while back one of our players was having a fight with the ex-manager. Now a couple of cross words and we're in crisis.
Mad.
The pertinence of the point is that nobody cares as long as a bad relationship between players and management isn't reflected in performances. Who cared when Morley made a bee-line for Saunders to give him the v-sign? Nobody, because he'd just scored a great goal in the European Cup.
And judging by the effort they put in, the vast majority of the players liked playing for MON.
To me now, it seems that many of our players are not motivated by the current management team, rows or not.
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And judging by the effort they put in, the vast majority of the players liked playing for MON.
To me now, it seems that many of our players are not motivated by the current management team, rows or not.
The ones who were in his rarely altered started XI did. The ones who weren't were probably not so keen on him.
I agree, there seems to be a lot of discord in the camp at the moment, though, and I can't believe anyone doesn't think an assistant manager and player having a row on the touchline isn't something that is going to be discussed on here.
I also think it's hard to point to MON's era as one free of arguments, too, unless we've forgotten the spats with players he signed then binned, as well as stuff like the ruck with NRC.
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What's happened with the so called story of the dressing room bust up that was going to come out yesterday?
It did with Bobby.
Got a link?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1345294/Robert-Pires-slams-Villa-boss-Gerard-Houllier-predicts-relegation.html
He doesn't make it sound too great.
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Hmm, from what I've seen of Pires this season I'm perfectly capable of understanding why Houllier doesn't have confidence in him. However, I thought it was understood that Pires would be a bit-part player that was brought in because of his experience and good attitude. Thus, I'm disappointed that he starts moaning about not playing, especially since his performances so far have been, well, there's good and there's not so good, and Pires' performances have fallen into the latter category.
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What do you want, the club to turn into the "Waltons" ?????
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It's so weird...after a win, an argument between Downing and Gary Mac is considered nothing by most people who've responded to this thread, yet after a loss, threads about arguments between players and management are seen as evidence that things are drastically wrong.....
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I wonder if Gary Mac was asking him why he constantly pulls out of tackles.
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Wasn't this when the 4th official held up the wrong number? I saw Downing and McAllister both arguing with him.
But if it helps all the teary eyed O'Neill fans keep moaning about Houllier then good for them.
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So this went on for several minutes while Downing was playing? Didn't notice him leave the field, certainly not for that long.
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Wasn't this when the 4th official held up the wrong number? I saw Downing and McAllister both arguing with him.
Sounds likely to me, there was a lot of gesticulating with McAllister and Downing trying to sort the numbers out, trying to send Young back onto the pitch etc. I'd have thought the cameras would have picked up on this if it were something else. Did any other fans at the ground see this?
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Wasn't this when the 4th official held up the wrong number? I saw Downing and McAllister both arguing with him.
Sounds likely to me, there was a lot of gesticulating with McAllister and Downing trying to sort the numbers out, trying to send Young back onto the pitch etc. I'd have thought the cameras would have picked up on this if it were something else. Did any other fans at the ground see this?
I think most of us who were there thought "jesus we can't even get a substitution right!"
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Christ, I've generally always been skipper of most teams I have played for and in one game me and the manager had one bust up with me nearly snapping the half way line flag in two.
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Arguing for a few minutes?! Don't make me laugh!
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Dear me the club must be disintegrating scoop, by amazed Villa fan.
One thing most fans seem to have missed is that under Mon, if anyone spoke out of turn they were fined and probably r3legated to the never play bench. Anyone found disagreeing with him on the pitch would probably never be seen at Villa again.
Houllier has a more open approach it seems where players are allowed to pass comments and disagree, its part of his new policy allied to the newish style of training that he's adopted.
So I'd guess there's more opportunity for those looking at every chance to jump on Ged's case to so do.
But then if they see it work at Liverpool why not try it at Villa I guess, thing is all we have in the sidelines is G Taylor and K Mac, which may be their dream ticket but its not any sane fans.
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So we have two pages about an alleged argument that one poster saw and no one else did?
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Sorry, three pages!
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What's happened with the so called story of the dressing room bust up that was going to come out yesterday?
It did with Bobby.
Got a link?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1345294/Robert-Pires-slams-Villa-boss-Gerard-Houllier-predicts-relegation.html
He doesn't make it sound too great.
Cheers, I can't believe he started after that!
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what a load of arse, dorset! I wish i could be bothered to write anything else but i cannot be arsed! Shit Stirrers! Ludicrous
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From what i've read it was a cock up by the fourth official and AY was meant to be subbed before the sending off, I would put a total ban on any Villa player talking to the press or expressing opinions detrimental to the club or face a massive fine.
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I'll reserve judgement until I hear the opinion of our Isle of Man observant ?
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Isle of Man? Gets worse. In South Africa we had live feed. For some reason it carried on a bit after the end of the game , no commentary. As the players walked off the pitch the look and verbal between Petrov and GH was, er not polite. Stan scored a cracker but absolutely nothing from GH. Well nothing positive.
Maybe you guys saw it but to me it smacked of "... that good enough for you French piece of shit..."
GH _ "Non" actuallement".
It was GH that lowered his head and eyes......
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I wouldn't read that much into touchline arguments, but I am concerned by the number of comments our players are making to the press. It's making our club look like a shambles, and I don't remember stories like this coming out so much before, not even during dark days under DOL.
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I wouldn't read that much into touchline arguments, but I am concerned by the number of comments our players are making to the press. It's making our club look like a shambles, and I don't remember stories like this coming out so much before, not even during dark days under DOL.
How many of these "comments to the press" are actually comments to the press? And how many are just make up stories by journalists latching onto another "football club in crisis" line?
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The recent spate of Pires stories all seem to be rehashes of his radio interview, with all of the papers adding their own take to it.
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I thought David James' view in the Observer was interesting. Only a couple of sentences are about Gerard directly.
Managers will be forgiven anything if they get results = Clicky (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jan/08/football-managers-sacked-david-james)
"...Good results and likability do not necessarily go together, though. A prime example is Gérard Houllier. I have a lot of time for him because he taught me a valuable lesson about player respect at Liverpool. But he was not a popular manager, despite his trophies. I remember being at Aston Villa and speaking to some of my old Liverpool team-mates who were complaining about him. I said: "But you're third in the league, what's there to moan about?" They just didn't like the way he did things.
Did it matter? No, because in the early days he brought success. And that's what players desire more than anything else. You can forgive a manager anything if he helps you to win. Once the winning stops there comes a period of grace – living off the memories of having won – but if the players don't like you the mood quickly turns sour.
Losing the confidence of the dressing room is not as rare as it seems. We only tend to hear about it when there are heavy defeats, but I've played for managers whom the team has disliked and we've been floating along mid-table. Mediocrity is itself a reason to dislike a manager. Players are ambitious and want to win, not settle for safety.
Once the talk starts that a manager is going to get the sack, it's pretty much a done deal. The dressing room is already thinking about who will be next in charge. The more the manager protests on TV that he has the confidence of his players, the more the players are pulling their hair out behind the scenes.
As the pressure builds, the unrest gains momentum and is difficult for a manager to contain. It is at this point that they often start to make crazy decisions. One manager I had brought in a rule that English was the only language allowed in the dressing room. That alienated the foreign players who then refused to speak English and suddenly there was a rift. Another manager who rounded us all up after a heavy thrashing told us: "When you go home your kids are going to look at you and say: 'Daddy was a mummy today.'" It was the strangest thing we'd ever heard, and it only reinforced our suspicion that he had completely lost it.
Other common mistakes by managers are not being honest, a surefire way of losing your players' trust, or playing teacher and punishing individuals by forcing them to train with the youth players. Never a good idea. It's not that a manager has to please his players all the time, but he has to be honest and show basic respect.
As England manager, Sven-Goran Eriksson dropped me three times yet I still have a very high opinion of him. He took the time to explain his decisions, and gave me advance notice. Everyone hates a manager who drops players without any warning or explanation.
People often ask if players try to get rid of a manager on purpose. Some do, particularly those who are out of favour or on the fringes of the team. They are hoping someone new will come in and rejuvenate their career. To most of us, though, winning is the most important thing, no matter your feelings about the manager. Where that principle comes into conflict is when you are given a set of orders to follow and you know that they are completely inept. Do you disobey your chain of command, or follow orders that lead to disaster?..."
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i have some bust ups with managers and team mates during a game, its what happens, peope were complaining that the bench have been to quiet, i hope some one is giving Downing a rocket because his recent performances are reniniscent of last season
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Im sure players didnt like MON. Not every player is going to like the boss, just like being at work...
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I wouldn't read that much into touchline arguments, but I am concerned by the number of comments our players are making to the press. It's making our club look like a shambles, and I don't remember stories like this coming out so much before, not even during dark days under DOL.
How many of these "comments to the press" are actually comments to the press? And how many are just make up stories by journalists latching onto another "football club in crisis" line?
Well I've not had regular internet access just recently so I've not been able to follow every news item about us, but even then in the past week I've seen these quotes from Pires reported in here as well as Petrov talking about Houllier and Carew needing to patch up their differences. Surely if we are a club under scrutiny from a press looking for turmoil then we don't need to be giving them these sound bites?
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"We" (as in the club) are not giving them anything, the tabloids are scenting a crisis and making it all up.
Pires: "I would like to have played more, but there you go."
Tabloid: "Pires slams Houllier's team selection."
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"We" (as in the club) are not giving them anything, the tabloids are scenting a crisis and making it all up.
Pires: "I would like to have played more, but there you go."
Tabloid: "Pires slams Houllier's team selection."
I would argue if you say things like:
"Relationships between Gerard and certain players are strained and highly-charged."
"Gerard Houllier does not have confidence in me. I can't understand why not, and I'm going to have a talk with him about it."
then you are giving the media plenty of material to work with.
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I can understand why Gerard Houllier lacks faith in Robert Pires.
Everyone with eyes can. Well apart from Uncle Bob himself.
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Last week it was Houliier apparently having a massive row with Albrighton, then somebody posts about talking to Marc's dad who said that he was really happy working with him. If people are looking for problems then they'll find them but I prefer to take it all with pinch of salt.
I don't GH has a massive row in him.
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It is nice to see GH having some anger and passion. Maybe it is not so cold for him :)