Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Hookeysmith on January 06, 2011, 12:49:24 PM
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Before you all scream "dont be mad of course" think about this for a while
Most of our very good young kids are all signed up on decent long term deals - it would be an ideal time to drop some of the dead wood and regroup. The way the premiership is going i actually am growing to the idea of a season out to revisit grounds long gone but also to build the club again from the bottom up. If you think we would have the nucleus of a superb young team
GK - Parrish?
RB - Lihaj / Walker
CB - Clark
CB - ?
LB - Lowrey
RW - Albrighton
CM - Hogg / Herd
CM - Delph
LW - ?
CF - Fonz / Gabby / Weinmann / Gardener
With a few additions that is a team that could tear up the championship and beyond
Just trying to find something to be positive about ATM :'(
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As predicted last night, here it is, right on cue.
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Are you mad?
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I dont think we will go down but I can see where Hookey is coming from. I wondered myself if it would be so bad and to be honest, the premier league, Sky and modern football in general is pissing me off anyway. But thats easy said before the fact. Nobody wants to go through it as its nothing but a complete failure.
Its not the end of the world either. We're a strong club in every way with a strong chairman/owner and we'd cope with it.
But we'll be alright if we can get some players and consistency.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
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You must be mad?....The Championship is a tough league to get out of and no gurantees of bouncing straight back up.....just ask the Leeds, Southampton, Forest fans.
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Yes it would
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Is this an attempt at putting a positive spin on being in the bottom three....
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Relegation is not on. It's quite simple.
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Would be a disaster imo. Would put us back 5 years at least.
Lose all our best players.
Financially crippling.
Tough league to get out of.
Would Randy bail out seeing his investment steadily decline?
Can see where you are coming from but yes, I think it would be that bad
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Relegation would be a disaster. That said I'd probably go to more away games so every cloud and all that.
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Thats about as positive as crapping yourself then realising you have a spare pair of clean pants in your pocket.
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I know we've got a French manager (and Robert Pires and Robert Duverne), but I doubt even they are surrendering at this point in time.
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Hurricane Katrina was a disaster. Widespread flooding in Australia is a disaster. Famine in Africa is a disaster. Civil War in Angola is a disaster. The Black Death was a disaster.
Relegation to the Championship?
I'm being flippant (and not a bit patronising) but I agree with Wookey, If it happens (and I don't want it to) there are always upsides and positives to be taken. To be honest I'm not thinking of renewing my season ticket anyway next season (money, time, stupid Sky kick offs) but would actually consider it if we were relgated.
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I know we've got a French manager (and Robert Pires and Robert Duverne), but I doubt even they are surrendering at this point in time.
Have you heard Houllier's post-match interviews? He gave up a long time ago. I'm surprised the Samaritans aren't campaigning to have him banned, I'm hard pressed to stop myself jumping off a bridge after listening to him for 45 seconds.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Very harsh. And I dont agree at all.
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I honestly don't think it'd be a bad thing provided we got promoted back at the first attempt, i've said before that im bored shitless of the whole premier league and sky, maybe a season away from it all would be best in the long run
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I honestly don't think it'd be a bad thing provided we got promoted back at the first attempt, i've said before that im bored shitless of the whole premier league and sky, maybe a season away from it all would be best in the long run
Oh well that's alright then.
Luke's fed up and fancies a change, let's just forfeit the rest of the games.
Seriously, it's inconceivable that going down would be of benefit considering the damage it would do financially and to the reputation of the club when it comes to attracting players.
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We'd come back straight away I'm convinced of that. If Newcastle with their owner and all their turmoil can walk the division and get 100 points we could.
However like Newcastle we'd then be mired in mid table and I couldn't see us finishing in the top 6 for ages as the likes of Spurs and Man. City would move furthr away while we were away.
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Relegation would be the worst thing to ever happen to us.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Absolutely. In just a few months this regime has become worse than Doug Ellis ever was.
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I honestly don't think it'd be a bad thing provided we got promoted back at the first attempt, i've said before that im bored shitless of the whole premier league and sky, maybe a season away from it all would be best in the long run
Oh well that's alright then.
Luke's fed up and fancies a change, let's just forfeit the rest of the games.
you bitch ;-)
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Absolute nonsense. Insulting.
In fact, the biggest load of shit I've read on here in ages.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Doug left us in debt with no infrastructure.. if you think were in a worse position your as mad a box of madmen.
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Sarcasm?
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Absolutely. In just a few months this regime has become worse than Doug Ellis ever was.
08457 90 90 90
thats the number for the samaritans i think you need some help!
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It would be be a fucking Shame, i think i might cry
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It would be be a fucking Shame, i think i might cry
Steady on. We're not Newcastle fans.
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I honestly don't think it'd be a bad thing provided we got promoted back at the first attempt, i've said before that im bored shitless of the whole premier league and sky, maybe a season away from it all would be best in the long run
Oh well that's alright then.
Luke's fed up and fancies a change, let's just forfeit the rest of the games.
Seriously, it's inconceivable that going down would be of benefit considering the damage it would do financially and to the reputation of the club when it comes to attracting players.
i dont think he meant it the way you read it, and your response is a touch disingenuous,
but it is true theres plenty of people pissed of with the premieship, i know people who have walked away from football completly and they have supported teams who have not been relegated,
nobody wants to go down, including Luke, but its not the doomsday senario that some have it down as,
unless of coarse its the prem or nothing in which case you just stop going, then it would be a total disaster.
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It will be bad enough not getting a European place. Our "closest challengers" are even further ahead as it is.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
I think Houllier would be dealing with HR at the moment if Ellis was still in charge.
And yes, relegation would be that bad.
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It would be a disaster for us we would be miles away from the top 6 if we went down so no i don't even wan't to contemplate it, it doesn't bear thinking about let's get out of this mess and then start again in the premiership not the championship.
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I'm not concerned about dropping out of the glittering Premier League for a season or two but the financial implications could be disastrous. That would be my main concern. Could ruin us. But if we keep our heads, cut the fat from the squad, we could bounce back leaner and meaner.
You could kiss goodbye to this lot for starters though: Friedel, Cuellar, Dunne, Warnock, Ash Young, NRC, Downing, Luke Young, Petrov, Carew, Heskey.
I've got a funny feeling Gabby would stay.
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Well I am concerned about relegation...all of our players would be off and Houllier would only attract French players and lower league nobodies, I fear we would struggle in that division also.
I remember signing players like David Hunt, that is the sort of crap we will be watching at VP next season !
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It will be bad enough not getting a European place. Our "closest challengers" are even further ahead as it is.
Bollocks to Europe. I don't want Rapid Vienna ruining another bank holiday weekend, thanks very much.
Who's to say that all these young players we're going to build our Championship-winning team around will want to stick around? Would Albrighton, Clark and Bannan stay if other clubs came sniffing?
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Yes, it would be bad
Yes, it would be interesting
Yes, it would have the potential to be an entertaining season
Let's hope that we never find out for sure
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Does anyone know if there are "relegation clauses" in the players contracts or will we be like Newcastle and lumbered with players on £40k per week in the Championship?
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No offence but you are taking the piss aren't you?
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Given that the BBC are now reporting that GH's position is not threatened then relegation is a virtual certainty. Yes it would be very bad and yes it might take a long long time to get back up - remember what happened after 1967?
No, most of you don't do you - a lot of you don't really believe that this is going to happen do you?
Another reason why we are doomed - denial within the club, owner, management and fan base.
What more proof do you need? I'm sure of one thing - you're are going to see it. You think things have been bad so far - well f*cking watch this space!!
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Given that the BBC are now reporting that GH's position is not threatened then relegation is a virtual certainty. Yes it would be very bad and yes it might take a long long time to get back up - remember what happened after 1967?
No, most of you don't do you - a lot of you don't really believe that this is going to happen do you?
Another reason why we are doomed - denial within the club, owner, management and fan base.
What more proof do you need? I'm sure of one thing - you're are going to see it. You think things have been bad so far - well f*cking watch this space!!
Villa were 4/1 to go down, so if its a 'virtual certainty as you say, you could make yourself a very rich man,
thats if you've got the balls ?
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I've put a few quid on. Mainly out of the hope that I've never made a single penny out of betting on the Villa so hope that run continues. We're definitely ill equipped for a relegation scrap though. We've got an insipid, uninspiring fool of a manager, and a team who are used to wilting in the league after February.
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I know we've got a French manager (and Robert Pires and Robert Duverne), but I doubt even they are surrendering at this point in time.
Have you heard Houllier's post-match interviews? He gave up a long time ago. I'm surprised the Samaritans aren't campaigning to have him banned, I'm hard pressed to stop myself jumping off a bridge after listening to him for 45 seconds.
I can't stand listening to anything he says so I try to avoid his post-match interviews. I was attempting (probably too surrealistically) to temper Hookey's Great British defeatism.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
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Anyone who thinks relagation would not be that bad wants their head looking at, and has obviously not been through it before! The Championshipis sh1t. You try to convince everyone that you're still a big club, but you know deep down that your not. Don't even contemplate it! We must do whatever it takes to avoid relagation!
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Plenty of time to go, sure. But the worry is that Wolves know how to dig in and win games - beaten Liverpool and Chelsea in the last week or so without conceding a goal. West Ham were battered last night at Newcastle (sounds familiar) but had a good Christmas, winning two and drawing two. Fulham know what it's like down there.
On the other hand, we're in freefall. Last night is the first time I've felt properly worried about relegation.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
its Jan not May,
bottom 10 clubs, all within 5 points of each other, we are hardly cut adrift
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
No, why? Is there a problem? (http://www.bee-hexagon.net/plugins/guestbook/tpl/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
No, why? Is there a problem? (http://www.bee-hexagon.net/plugins/guestbook/tpl/images/icon_rolleyes.gif)
not if you turn it upside down
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If we dont do some meaningful business this window to arrest the slide, I'll be concerned. But in early January with a few points in it all the way down from the European places, I'm not.
Well, maybe concerned but not worried.
Sacking Houllier right now will possibly do more harm than good. Let's just see what happens over the next month or so. When he's had a chance to get some of his own choices in rather than continue the cat herding mission getting MON's old boys to pull their socks up seems to be.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
But that doesn't mean we're already down.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
But that doesn't mean we're already down.
But its a good starting point for people to start thinking that the worst could happen. We are the worst team around at the moment and have been bottom of the current form tables for quite a while. No, it doesn't mean we're down but it does mean we look as if we're heading that way.
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When DoL was here I thought it might shake us up, now I think it would shake us to the core and we would take a long time to recover...
The military saying "I shall withdraw as a ram to butt harder on my return*" does not, unfortunately, apply to football methinks
*Philip of Macedon (I think) - Would he do a better job than Houllier?
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The financial game has changed largely because of television. Relegation would be a disaster. We all know that. And don't be fooled by people like me who look back on the third division days with affection. It was largely terrible. We lived on the "underdog" thing. Gentle Giant. I remember 12000 odd in Villa Park on a cold wet week day night. Rochdale. Who knows who cares. Losing against Doncaster after hitching up there, and losing. Can't remember.
I only remember ( after hitching from Wales for every home game and most away) the Spurs Cup Final. The Manu semis and Bournmouth at VP. Brilliant atmosphere. So....
Give me Inter Milan every time.
Don't even talk about relegation as positive.
Financially it would destroy us and could take ten years to return.
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Financially it would destroy us and could take ten years to return.
In a mess of a statements I find that one just incredible, especially from a Villa fan.
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Our squad is very very average for all the money spent, but my biggest fear is the lack of fighting spirit in the manager and the players. You need it down there to scrap your way out of it and we haven't got it, don't be fooled by a last minute equaliser against Chelsea who are in disarray.
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Financially it would destroy us and could take ten years to return.
In a mess of a statements I find that one just incredible, especially from a Villa fan.
He's right though, unless we bounced straight back up, financially we'd be very close to ruin. We've got a whole heap of debt we have to pay back to the Lerner trust in a few years. To do that he's either going to have to make some pretty big profits, borrow externally against the club, or sell the club to a new owner. All very hard to do in terms of getting enough money if we're getting 25,000 crowds in the Championship.
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Feck sake think you lot need to take a chill pill....i know blues and villa love to take the piss out of each other but the villa wont go down, your squad is far too strong.....its only jan as well.......
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Feck sake think you lot need to take a chill pill....i know blues and villa love to take the piss out of each other but the villa wont go down, your squad is far too strong.....its only jan as well.......
Thanks. I think.
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Is it true Lerner is charging us an interset rate of approx 17% ?
Isn't the base rate 0.5% ????????????????????????????????
Yeah, he's Villa through and through
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I'm not concerned about dropping out of the glittering Premier League for a season or two but the financial implications could be disastrous. That would be my main concern. Could ruin us. But if we keep our heads, cut the fat from the squad, we could bounce back leaner and meaner.
You could kiss goodbye to this lot for starters though: Friedel, Cuellar, Dunne, Warnock, Ash Young, NRC, Downing, Luke Young, Petrov, Carew, Heskey.
I've got a funny feeling Gabby would stay.
Most of them are crap anyway. 2/3 years the whole team will be different anyway.
We'll still support villa regardless of what happens! It will be f'ed for the overseas supporters they'll hardly see a game.
The league is getting more competitive which is a good thing, you snooze you lose simple as! Those days of the 2-4 Citeh, 0-4 Blackburn and the 5-1 Bolton's are long gone...
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Financially it would destroy us and could take ten years to return.
In a mess of a statements I find that one just incredible, especially from a Villa fan.
If the mess of statements were mine; my apologies for rambling. But I stand by how much time it might take to re-group and win back our place in the Premier league. We thought it would be easy in the seventies.
Second class players, management and today lack of funds. Even worse. And yes I am a fan. For over fifty years.
Now your turn to apologise.
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It would be horrendous, but it ain't going to happen.
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usav. Really?
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Why go full hog and go into adminstration and also get relegated and get 10 point deduction , would that be so bad
Of course it would
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We should have won last night, but we didn't. If we had, we wouldn't be having this conversation. We will turn it around, there are far worse teams than us, but clearly we need to start winning and soon.
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It wouldnt be horrendous.
I dont care whether we get to play Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal et al as part of the "world's bestest ever league competition in history, ever". I dont care how many fans turn up each week. I dont care how big our stadium is. I dont care how other fans see us. I dont care about the financial plight of Randy Lerner or the club (provided we dont go under).
What I care about is how I feel when I'm watching us play; watching us score; watching us win; driving 150 miles home after the game; reading the match report in the paper on Sunday morning; talking to my mates in the pub about the latest up and coming youngster.
None of the things I care about have anything to do with which league we play in. I'd rather watch us win a game in the conference than see us lose to a bunch of vile millionaires in the premiership.
Football is a sport. Not a business.
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Relegation? No chance. If it did happen I couldn't see getting us back up again.
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Why would relegation be a good thing FFS? We don;t need to go down to regroup as a club. In fact GH is going to do that this summer anyway so the last thing we need is to go down at the same time.
It is time the fans stepped up and started supporting the club rather than giving uo because they don't like the manager.
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After the highs of Wembley.
Finished 666 in a row 'Yeah i know' Heskey's miss sums it up
Knocked out of Europe first round
No new shirt
Lost the workhorse
Lost our ex manager
No signings
Hammered by the team we put down
Worse run for a decade
Knocked out by the filth
Season over by December
Playing to avoid relegation
New manager July 2011
Which ever way you look at it i don't think GH will be here next season?
How many days till August?
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It wouldnt be horrendous.
I dont care whether we get to play Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal et al as part of the "world's bestest ever league competition in history, ever". I dont care how many fans turn up each week. I dont care how big our stadium is. I dont care how other fans see us. I dont care about the financial plight of Randy Lerner or the club (provided we dont go under).
What I care about is how I feel when I'm watching us play; watching us score; watching us win; driving 150 miles home after the game; reading the match report in the paper on Sunday morning; talking to my mates in the pub about the latest up and coming youngster.
None of the things I care about have anything to do with which league we play in. I'd rather watch us win a game in the conference than see us lose to a bunch of vile millionaires in the premiership.
Football is a sport. Not a business.
Nicely done!!!
The only time this season when i got that feeling watching Villa play was the Chelski game.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Absolutely. In just a few months this regime has become worse than Doug Ellis ever was.
That's the sound of a knee jerking so hard you've done your cruciate in.
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It would be horrendous, but it ain't going to happen.
I agree it would be horrendous, but it might happen
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I back the board but I can't for the life of me see where Houllier is going to get 6 league wins with the current personnel.
Let's hope there's 2/3 senior additions closer than we think.
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Feck sake think you lot need to take a chill pill....i know blues and villa love to take the piss out of each other but the villa wont go down, your squad is far too strong.....its only jan as well.......
Our squad is piss poor. West Ham went down with David James, Glen Johnson, Joe Cole, Carrick, Defoe, Kanoute in their team, who have we got really? Ashley Young is massively overrated and spends more time on his arse, our strikers are all shit especially Agbonlahor, he aint no fuckin good, our keeper is past it, our defence is shambolic and our midfield is weak and lacking goals/creativity. Only the kids and Downing occasionally have played ok this season. O'Neill spent millions and left us with an ageing, extremely average bunch of players, just like he did at Celtic and Leicester.
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I think it would be horrendous and is now a very real possibility - last night was a must win game and we blew it. We need 7 wins and Sunderland at VP should have been one of them - Sunderland had only won once away from home prior to last night (OK it was Chelsea) and had only scored about 10 goals. We're conceding too many and too often, we're missing chances, and we're running out of games. I for one am extremely worried
Oh - and Lee S - I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say but sadly at this level football is a business not a sport any more and I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the whole lot
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prat!
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prat!
You talking to me? And if so maybe you'd like to elaborate
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We have 4 paths we can take,
1. Go down, sell all our experienced players and end up like Middlesborough.
2. Go down keep most the team bar a couple and do a newcastle and come straight back up.
3. Sack houllier get best man regardless of if he is in a job and do a spurs.
4. Stick with Houllier just avoid relagtion and end up like West Ham this season.
Now none of these options are garenteed, but it is an idea of where we are as a club.
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prat!
Who and why?
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Relegation? No chance. If it did happen I couldn't see getting us back up again.
Leeg. Where's that page where we predicted the month of Jan can't find it?
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Here (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41586.0)
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If we get relegated, we get relegated. Shit all any of us can do it about.
I will still support Villa whichever league we are in.
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yes, it would be very, very bad.
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prat!
Is it not in response to the thread title?
Who and why?
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We have 4 paths we can take,
1. Go down, sell all our experienced players and end up like Middlesborough.
2. Go down keep most the team bar a couple and do a newcastle and come straight back up.
3. Sack houllier get best man regardless of if he is in a job and do a spurs.
4. Stick with Houllier just avoid relagtion and end up like West Ham this season.
Now none of these options are garenteed, but it is an idea of where we are as a club.
5. Too many choices! I'm laughing to myself by the way.
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I thought so. Still not necessary.
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Relegation would be a disaster.
Next question, please.
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Here (http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41586.0)
Grazie.......
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6. Stick with Houllier. Give him time. Watch a resurgence up the table.
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I started watching regularly in 86-87, so I was sorry to leave Division 2 a year later as I'd quite enjoyed actually seeing my team win.
Still, that was then and this is now, and now is not a good time to be getting yourself relegated, because you see that Sheffield Wednesday? That would be us, no doubt.
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I'm still confident we'll stay up, in spite of the recent shite. As for the summer if we do, well who knows.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
But that doesn't mean we're already down.
But its a good starting point for people to start thinking that the worst could happen.
It is, but it's still quite a stretch to "we'll certainly be relegated and there's no hope left"
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I started watching regularly in 86-87, so I was sorry to leave Division 2 a year later as I'd quite enjoyed actually seeing my team win.
Presumably then you didn't go to many home games that season?
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
But that doesn't mean we're already down.
But its a good starting point for people to start thinking that the worst could happen.
It is, but it's still quite a stretch to "we'll certainly be relegated and there's no hope left"
Check the form table. Check the fixtures. Compute the points...... Hope yes. But.
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All this talk as if we're down already. With a half a season to go.
Get a fucking grip will you.
Have you seen the league table recently?
But that doesn't mean we're already down.
But its a good starting point for people to start thinking that the worst could happen.
It is, but it's still quite a stretch to "we'll certainly be relegated and there's no hope left"
Check the form table. Check the fixtures. Compute the points...... Hope yes. But.
If we're basing it on that alone then Chelsea will finish somewhere between 12th and 15th while Wolves and Blackpool will both finish in the top eight.
As others have said, if you honestly, really think that we will go down then head to the bookies. They don't think we will so you'll make a killing.
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They're getting a bit less confident with every passing week though.
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I started watching regularly in 86-87, so I was sorry to leave Division 2 a year later as I'd quite enjoyed actually seeing my team win.
Presumably then you didn't go to many home games that season?
I know, but it was still a damn sight better than the previous season.
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relegation would be an absolute disaster
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Feck sake think you lot need to take a chill pill....i know blues and villa love to take the piss out of each other but the villa wont go down, your squad is far too strong.....its only jan as well.......
Actually all my non-villa supporting colleagues said the same thing today. They don't see the whole game though.
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They're getting a bit less confident with every passing week though.
Exactly. So if people are sure, then now's the time to lump on before the odds shorten even further. Which they're bound to if (sorry, when) we go down.
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relegation would be an absolute disaster
Definitely. We're not Newcastle who get 50,000 gates and were able to keep hold of their best players because they could afford to keep payimng them Premier Lg wages. We'd be fucked.
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Yes, we are lowly Aston Villa. What hope for us?
Honestly, some you just take the piss. You are truly and utterly hopeless.
First we're definitely relegated already half way through the season and now we couldn't get back again because we're not poxy Newcastle.
Brilliant.
Who can out do this now? Come on guys, one of you must be lining up a "We'll be in administration before March".
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We're neither guaranteed to be relegated nor are we guaranteed to stay up. Ask me again when we are well out of it. All I know is I'm becoming less and less confident with each passing game. Sunderland was pretty much a must win game (hell I'd have taken a draw) but we lost. We are now in the bottom three and aside from a decent point at the only team whose form is near as bad as ours it has been poor fayre but we have a good squad of good players so I'm not about to make any rash broad statements either way.
To the main point: It would not be a disaster. People wouldn't die, Villa park won't be sucked down a black hole but it will not be as positive or as worth underplaying as the OP makes out. We won't keep all of our most promising players. Some of the youngsters will not stay. I reckon some more senior players will stop by (Gabby) and others will not be moved on successfully. There will be a really small squad with wages beyond our means. We were trying to slim down the wage bill earlier this season what would we do if we got relegated! What if Randy decides he's had enough and that the liability is too much? That said we might at least win something but even then it will damage us and leave us struggling to compete if we come back up. Gone are the days where you come back up and are challenging for the top within a couple of seasons. Even the top six would be a very distant dream. It will be bad, potentially very bad but not on a personal level as there is worse shit that could happen.
Besides we'll all still be behind them.
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Yes. Whatever happens we will all still be behind the Club. Still support the Villa. True.
The only continuing prescence whatever happens are the supporters.
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Yes, we are lowly Aston Villa. What hope for us?
Honestly, some you just take the piss. You are truly and utterly hopeless.
First we're definitely relegated already half way through the season and now we couldn't get back again because we're not poxy Newcastle.
Brilliant.
Who can out do this now? Come on guys, one of you must be lining up a "We'll be in administration before March".
In 6 years time we'll be battling Kiddy for a place in the conference play-offs, while looking up to Leeds and dreaming of a third round draw away to Man City
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I think we’ll stay up and comfortably too. But I think we’ll be wallowing around in the middle of the table, which is a bit grim. Not as grim as this gap inbetween yesterdays abject awfulness and smashing the Blues to jump to glorious heights of 15th or wherever, but grim all the same.
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Yes, we are lowly Aston Villa. What hope for us?
Honestly, some you just take the piss. You are truly and utterly hopeless.
First we're definitely relegated already half way through the season and now we couldn't get back again because we're not poxy Newcastle.
Brilliant.
Who can out do this now? Come on guys, one of you must be lining up a "We'll be in administration before March".
We're not relegation certainties.
I think the point a lot of us are making now is that - if we continue as we are now - we are certain to be relegated.
That's a totally different point and a more difficult one to shrug off.
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Fair enough question; simple answer is that after consecutive top six finishes, an FA Cup semi final appearance and a Carling Cup final is YES it would be an absolute disaster - how many of our promising youngsters do we think will stick around?
Albrighton, Bannan, Clark and co will all get snapped up and we'll be left with Beye and Co on top dollar wages and zero commitment to get us out of the shit/Championship
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Is it true Lerner is charging us an interset rate of approx 17% ?
Isn't the base rate 0.5% ????????????????????????????????
Yeah, he's Villa through and through
Do you even have the vaguest idea what you are talking about? Not a bloody clue, have you?
He's funded Villa from his own pocket and with money from his own trust fund. If he has to pay money back it will be himself that has to pay it.
Financially speaking, he IS Villa.
On what grounds do you question his loyalty and committment?
Yes, he is Villa through and through.
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Is it true Lerner is charging us an interset rate of approx 17% ?
Isn't the base rate 0.5% ????????????????????????????????
Yeah, he's Villa through and through
Do you even have the vaguest idea what you are talking about? Not a bloody clue, have you?
He's funded Villa from his own pocket and with money from his own trust fund. If he has to pay money back it will be himself that has to pay it.
Financially speaking, he IS Villa.
On what grounds do you question his loyalty and committment?
Yes, he is Villa through and through.
thank god for sanity, on this occaision Maz
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Yes, we are lowly Aston Villa. What hope for us?
Honestly, some you just take the piss. You are truly and utterly hopeless.
First we're definitely relegated already half way through the season and now we couldn't get back again because we're not poxy Newcastle.
Brilliant.
Who can out do this now? Come on guys, one of you must be lining up a "We'll be in administration before March".
We're not relegation certainties.
I think the point a lot of us are making now is that - if we continue as we are now - we are certain to be relegated.
That's a totally different point and a more difficult one to shrug off.
Well firstly, many are saying we're certainties for relegation and others talking as if it's aready happened and we're struggling to be promoted due to low gates. Amazing, that this is the same club that not too long ago had large gates in the old division 3 and stormed back to the top and soon after went all the way back to the very pinnacle of the game. A bit of character and belief and support and momentum.
Yes, if we carry on as we are now we'll be relegated. In the same way a plane will crash if it doesn't pull up after nosing down to lose altitude when landing.
Its not a difficult point to shrug off, its a fact. If we carry on like this we're doomed. But equally, if we improve, we're not. More Chelsea and we'll climb the table. More Sunderland and we'll prop it up.
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It is strange, if Heskey had not done the unforgivable we may well have gone on to win the game and we would have had none of the hysteria we're seeing now. Because we lost by a goal with ten men we are suddenly relegation certainties, it defies logic. I didn't see players not trying, i did see players who have come back from long term injuries not being match fit and a side that is crying out for new blood.
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New blood is part of the problem. But higher quality of incoming players is the soloution ......
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Relegation would be rubbish.
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Relegation would be bad, of course it would, but it won't be the complete meltdown into financial and footballing oblivion some of you are predicting!
Football wise, I would back our yoofs plus a couple of old heads to steady the ship to beat any club in The Championship, and if we go down that is what the team would be based around. A core of Clark, Lichaj, Bannan, Gabby, Delfounz, Albrighton, Weimann and Delph would be great to watch and would probably be good enough for promotion.
Finance wise, Lerner isn't going to bail out on us, and his financial clout plus the parachute payments would see us as comparatively rather rich in division two rather than also-rans in The Premiership.
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Is this guy fuckin stupid. Relegation is he serious it would be devestating idiot
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3pm Saturday kick offs almost every week and away trips to grounds we've not been to in years...It wouldn't be all that bad.
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3pm Saturday kick offs almost every week and away trips to grounds we've not been to in years...It wouldn't be all that bad.
Oh dear.
Relegation is the worst, THE WORST thing that could happen to us other than going out of business altogether. There is no consolation, it would be awful, truly awful. If you want trips to new grounds then wait for the cup draws. (Have you been to Ewood Park by any chance).
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3pm Saturday kick offs almost every week and away trips to grounds we've not been to in years...It wouldn't be all that bad.
Oh deary me.
Quite.
Have you watched many Championship games?
The standard is wretched, there is no guarantee that we'd get back up and if we did, no guarantee that we'd have the resources to compete.
Anybody who thinks 'it wouldn't be all that bad' is deranged.
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Anybody who thinks 'it wouldn't be all that bad' is deranged.
I am therefore perfectly happy to be deranged.
We will still be Villa fans won't we? You know, fans of the greatest club in the World, support them through thick and thin and all that? So what if the football isn't great, it ain't been that fucking good recently anyway.
We won't go into financial meltdown, we will have a team good enough to compete in The Championship, and if we don't bounce straight back...then so fucking what? Just because we think we have some sort of God given right to be a Premiership club it don't make it so. IF we go down, just keep on supporting, and for fucks sake try to enjoy it.
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Anybody who thinks 'it wouldn't be all that bad' is deranged.
I am therefore perfectly happy to be deranged.
We will still be Villa fans won't we? You know, fans of the greatest club in the World, support them through thick and thin and all that? So what if the football isn't great, it ain't been that fucking good recently anyway.
We won't go into financial meltdown, we will have a team good enough to compete in The Championship, and if we don't bounce straight back...then so fucking what? Just because we think we have some sort of God given right to be a Premiership club it don't make it so. IF we go down, just keep on supporting, and for fucks sake try to enjoy it.
Dave Cooper is probably deranged,
but he's also correct on this one
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One particularly good point in there is at the heart of why there's so much current angst. It's as though we think we have the divine right to always be in the top six and should never, ever struggle so when we go through a sticky patch it's like the world is coming to an end.
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Relegation would be bad, of course it would, but it won't be the complete meltdown into financial and footballing oblivion some of you are predicting!
Football wise, I would back our yoofs plus a couple of old heads to steady the ship to beat any club in The Championship, and if we go down that is what the team would be based around. A core of Clark, Lichaj, Bannan, Gabby, Delfounz, Albrighton, Weimann and Delph would be great to watch and would probably be good enough for promotion.
Finance wise, Lerner isn't going to bail out on us, and his financial clout plus the parachute payments would see us as comparatively rather rich in division two rather than also-rans in The Premiership.
Only slight problem with that lower division utopia is that it's unlikely even the young kids will stick around. The best ones anyroad. Albrighton, Clark and possibly Delph will attract offers from other Prem sides and might not see us as the best bet to progress their careers. Though I'm sure the likes of Hogg, Lichaj, Lowry and co will still be around if we want them.
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It would be bad for all the people who rely on Sky and internet streams to actually watch games,yet no doubt ,will continue to come on here and say how good or poorly we have performed and how the club should be run!
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Anyone who believes relegation is some sort of a cleansing agent that will see us rise from the ashes reborn and renewed obviously havn't been with Villa on that trip before. The Championship is as hard to get out of as it is to get in the top four of the prem, it is dog eat dog in a division of hackers, young hpefulls and hasbeens, and of course there is always the threat of relegation to division one or the third as we used to call it. I despair that we have supporters who wouldn't see this as anything but a mitigating disaster, i would say to them pick the nearest championship side and go and watch them home and away for a few weeks see what your future would really be like.
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Hooky; thanks. A question worth talking about.
The answer is YES. In the modern - SKY, Prem crap. Very much yes. Aston Villa cannot afford to be without that income.
We stay up or we go down for some years and suffer a long term financial, maybe ten year hiatus as a very poor relation to our real rivals. Spurs et al. It could even break us. Especially given the contracts that MON has agreed.
Please do not belittle our position. The whole club is at stake.
Sky falling in ? Joke? We are in a very serious situation. Non of our financial projections allowed for relegation.
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Anyone who believes relegation is some sort of a cleansing agent that will see us rise from the ashes reborn and renewed obviously havn't been with Villa on that trip before. The Championship is as hard to get out of as it is to get in the top four of the prem, it is dog eat dog in a division of hackers, young hpefulls and hasbeens, and of course there is always the threat of relegation to division one or the third as we used to call it. I despair that we have supporters who wouldn't see this as anything but a mitigating disaster, i would say to them pick the nearest championship side and go and watch them home and away for a few weeks see what your future would really be like.
What he said.
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Hooky; thanks. A question worth talking about.
The answer is YES. In the modern - SKY, Prem crap. Very much yes. Aston Villa cannot afford to be without that income.
We stay up or we go down for some years and suffer a long term financial, maybe ten year hiatus as a very poor relation to our real rivals. Spurs et al. It could even break us. Especially given the contracts that MON has agreed.
Please do not belittle our position. The whole club is at stake.
Sky falling in ? Joke? We are in a very serious situation. Non of our financial projections allowed for relegation.
I would be very surprised if there isn't a nightmare scenario to cover just that. Going down would be a horrible, horrible thing but it would not jeopardise the club's existence.
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Relegation would be bad. Not for the fact we will drop out of PL for a season but the impact it will have on development of our young players. To get relegated this season we have to perform only slightly below the effort so far. This will mean some dreadful results and a team playing with no confidence no cohesion. This is not a good environment for youngster to gain the confidence they will need to bloom. Kids flourish in successful teams and flounder in bad teams.
So for the sake of our future we need to get away from drop zone as soon as possible.
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We don't have to perform below our current level to get relegated aftab, just maintaining it will see us down.
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Hooky; thanks. A question worth talking about.
The answer is YES. In the modern - SKY, Prem crap. Very much yes. Aston Villa cannot afford to be without that income.
We stay up or we go down for some years and suffer a long term financial, maybe ten year hiatus as a very poor relation to our real rivals. Spurs et al. It could even break us. Especially given the contracts that MON has agreed.
Please do not belittle our position. The whole club is at stake.
Sky falling in ? Joke? We are in a very serious situation. Non of our financial projections allowed for relegation.
A whole boardroom of incompetents slowly strangling the club were unable to sink us in the 1960s, although we went pretty close. I am sure if one silly little relegation did occur, it wouldnt remotely compare with the events then.
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I don't think the "strong chairman" thing is true any more. I think he's weak, and has effectively given up on turning us into a Premier League club that can challenge domestically and in Europe. 5 years on and we're in a worse position than when he arrived. At least Doug went out having given it one last shot.
Really? Has anyone pointed out that work has stopped on the training ground and we had to sell the serpentine car park to stay solvent?
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When Blues, Wolves and Albion went down in recent years, it was hardly the fall of Pompeii.
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One particularly good point in there is at the heart of why there's so much current angst. It's as though we think we have the divine right to always be in the top six and should never, ever struggle so when we go through a sticky patch it's like the world is coming to an end.
Do we have a divine right to it? No.
But I think I'd rather see us dropping out of contention due to other sides coming on leaps and bounds rather than sinking our own boat.
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Dave,
I know it is tempting to over exaggerate. But I wasn't. Any High Street accountant will tell you that because of the current tax and applied rules to insolvent Clubs we could be caught out anytime. Actually let me correct that, we are fine currently but the arguement is about relegation.
But who is "The Club". The Auction might bring in a bunch of oil rich sheiks ( no offence) who need to find a way to diversify. Cool , and we have the cash that Man City have. Great. We will still be Aston Villa and still wear Claret and Blue. Wonderful.
Except. Simple economic theory will tell you that it will bust. Dunno when. But because of Salaries v Income.
Dave: you are right the name will survive. After all the value is based very much on "good will".
If it doesn't matter who owns us fine. But if we go down and we cannot attract the Sheiks or others we will be down for a very long time. Our "good will" will be expired. Our income massively reduced.
The truth is we have not won much in the past ninety years to negotiate that business "good will."
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It'd be horrible, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. We'd get over it. Leeds have enjoyed it and Newcastle had a great season last year.
I don't want it to happen, and I'd be gutted. But I'd look at the positives and enjoy being bigger and better than all around us. Especially while having local lads and youth teamers playing for us.
But hopefully it won't happen.
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I'm not concerned about dropping out of the glittering Premier League for a season or two but the financial implications could be disastrous. That would be my main concern. Could ruin us. But if we keep our heads, cut the fat from the squad, we could bounce back leaner and meaner.
You could kiss goodbye to this lot for starters though: Friedel, Cuellar, Dunne, Warnock, Ash Young, NRC, Downing, Luke Young, Petrov, Carew, Heskey.
I've got a funny feeling Gabby would stay.
The time I've enjoyed football more than any other time was the relegation season and the following time under SGT. Maybe it was because I went everywhere. But we had fun. Even though we knew we were going down with McNeil, we enjoyed ourselves.
I hate what football has become and the very, very short memories of fans. Houllier has not been given 4 months in charge yet, and because the overpaid, jumped up wankers, that are so-called senior players, won't play for him he's getting stick. Unbelievable stick. We won't go down, but if we do, it'll because of the players not giving a rats ass. Not the manager and not Randy.
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Is it true Lerner is charging us an interset rate of approx 17% ?
Isn't the base rate 0.5% ????????????????????????????????
Yeah, he's Villa through and through
I don't know but surely you understand that this is Randy funded this himself? This is Randy's right pocket paying Randy's left pocket.
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prat!
Who and why?
Is it not in response to the thread title?
Possibly. But it's not the standard of debate we have on H&V. If the poster can't contribute more I suggest he contributes less.
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Dave,
I know it is tempting to over exaggerate. But I wasn't. Any High Street accountant will tell you that because of the current tax and applied rules to insolvent Clubs we could be caught out anytime. Actually let me correct that, we are fine currently but the arguement is about relegation.
But who is "The Club". The Auction might bring in a bunch of oil rich sheiks ( no offence) who need to find a way to diversify. Cool , and we have the cash that Man City have. Great. We will still be Aston Villa and still wear Claret and Blue. Wonderful.
Except. Simple economic theory will tell you that it will bust. Dunno when. But because of Salaries v Income.
Dave: you are right the name will survive. After all the value is based very much on "good will".
If it doesn't matter who owns us fine. But if we go down and we cannot attract the Sheiks or others we will be down for a very long time. Our "good will" will be expired. Our income massively reduced.
The truth is we have not won much in the past ninety years to negotiate that business "good will."
Why do we need 'the shiekhs' or anyone else? Has the club been put up for sale without telling anyone?
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I hate what football has become and the very, very short memories of fans. Houllier has not been given 4 months in charge yet, and because the overpaid, jumped up wankers, that are so-called senior players, won't play for him he's getting stick. Unbelievable stick. We won't go down, but if we do, it'll because of the players not giving a rats ass. Not the manager and not Randy.
I totally agree Mac !
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So do I. I've said it all along. Give the bloke time.
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The time I've enjoyed football more than any other time was the relegation season and the following time under SGT. Maybe it was because I went everywhere. But we had fun. Even though we knew we were going down with McNeil, we enjoyed ourselves.
Whilst I hated the actual relegation, I agree that 87-88 was in many ways a memorable one, especially the away trips, of which I did many.
But, it needs to be taken in the context of the time.
Clubs survived for the most part at the turnstiles and by the time we went down our attendances didn't have that much further to fall. Sky money has completely changed the economics of either being in the top division or not.
Secondly, with the exception of Mark Walters, we didn't face an exodus of our better players.
Finally, Villa got lucky with their managerial appointment at the outset and, more to the point, got lucky that all our promotion rivals imploded more spectacularly than we did in the run-in.
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I hate what football has become and the very, very short memories of fans. Houllier has not been given 4 months in charge yet, and because the overpaid, jumped up wankers, that are so-called senior players, won't play for him he's getting stick. Unbelievable stick. We won't go down, but if we do, it'll because of the players not giving a rats ass. Not the manager and not Randy.
I totally agree Mac !
Yup, me too.
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Dave. That was poor for you, a deflection. That wasn't what I was saying. You know that. It is about our value. Not only as a business but to attract better players or lose our own better players. In our case the youngsters we have nurtured for many years brilliantly. We will have to sell them to Premier Clubs.
Simple - will relegation to a club like ours be disasterous- IMHO Yes. Long term. That was the thread question.
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Dave. That was poor for you, a deflection. That wasn't what I was saying. You know that. It is about our value. Not only as a business but to attract better players or lose our own better players. In our case the youngsters we have nurtured for many years brilliantly. We will have to sell them to Premier Clubs.
Simple - will relegation to a club like ours be disasterous- IMHO Yes. Long term. That was the thread question.
Sorry, but when you started talking about sheikhs and their oil money I thought you were on about new owners.
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'Would relegation be that bad?' , yes.
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Dave: I should have stressed the "might " bit.
These mails are tough aren't they. I mean from Brum we communicate via tone of voice and facial expressions, a lift of the brow, subtle cough or the 'pretend I never hear it.' face. We are very dry.
This is hard work. :)
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I hate what football has become and the very, very short memories of fans. Houllier has not been given 4 months in charge yet, and because the overpaid, jumped up wankers, that are so-called senior players, won't play for him he's getting stick. Unbelievable stick. We won't go down, but if we do, it'll because of the players not giving a rats ass. Not the manager and not Randy.
I totally agree Mac !
Yup, me too.
smack on i say
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Secondly, with the exception of Mark Walters, we didn't face an exodus of our better players.
Did we have any saleable players, He who must not be mentioned and Dorigo were sold during that season weren't they? Did Walters leave for Rangers during the promotion season>