Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Damo70 on November 22, 2010, 08:45:15 PM
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I'd rather have a bit of fun on the off topics, but as a Martin O' Neill fan I have to say to all of those who wanted him out - are we better off without him? Will we be better off without him in a year? I'm betting that those who were fed up finishing in the top six will have their way, because I don't think we will be there again soon. If certain people thought he was too powerfull at the club, well he's gone now so you can speak up and tell us the big plan for the future. Mr Lerner, Mr Faulkner, Mr Houllier???
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He resigned, you know.
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I guess the "big plan" is to have everybody from the chairman through the manager and coaching staff to the players all pulling in the same direction.
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And not walking away just as you're about to set sail taking with you the rudder, sails, mast, oars and anchor.
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I'd rather have a bit of fun on the off topics, but as a Martin O' Neill fan I have to say to all of those who wanted him out - are we better off without him? Will we be better off without him in a year? I'm betting that those who were fed up finishing in the top six will have their way, because I don't think we will be there again soon. If certain people thought he was too powerfull at the club, well he's gone now so you can speak up and tell us the big plan for the future. Mr Lerner, Mr Faulkner, Mr Houllier???
Don't feed the troll. Don't feed the troll, don't feed the troll.
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I'm guessing MON was one of those who always got sea sick, regardless of what pills he popped beforehand. No stomach for the journey ahead.
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You're a MON fan and that's swell.
But I'm an Aston Villa fan so I have no interest in the man as he's no longer connected with the club I support.
Will your support extend to his new club too? Good luck with that. We'd miss you, no question. But we'd probably muddle through somehow.
The way he left us could have far reaching repercussions for years, it's true - another mark against the man in my book. And why I find it odd that you say you're a fan of the bloke.
But each to his own.
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I think MON is probably looking at how the league is shaping this season and really, really regretting it.
If he was still in charge I honestly believe we'd be top 4/5 right now. OK, so the football might not have been as good as it has been on occasions this season (of which there have been some real good moments), but I think he would have got us the results, as he usually did (his points tallys don't lie, regardless of performances).
If he'd have given it another season, I think he could've surpised himself with how far the team could've gone without any real additions (though obviously some would've helped).
Not that I'm pineing for him back, he's gone and we now have Houllier, under who we have played some good football, it's just an opinion.
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I liked him, i thought he did a decent job and yes, he had his faults. I agree he could'nt have walked out at a worse time, but i'll always appreciate the job he did. How far he would have taken us though is another matter.
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Last season we lost 5 away from home in total. So far this season we've already lost 4. Yes he was wrong to walk out when he did but you can't dispute the facts of the contual top 6 finishes and wembley appearances. I remember many wanting MON to go were the same people who were asking for Mourinho, Jol and Hiddink to replace him. I wonder if they've sobered up yet. I don't blame GH he's doing what he can with the cards he's been dealt however the team is going backwards quickly. Is everyone happy now?!
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The ship was sailing steadily with Captain MON steering it, however the journey was just so dull, the sea was gentle and the scenery was the same mile after mile, now under Captain Hotlips its alot more dangerous, having to dodge icebergs and waterfalls, the sea is choppy, we occasionally get shot at by Pirates but its a damn site more exciting
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Go away please. O'Neill is history!
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He did absoloutely nothing to prepare the squad for the coming season, we have the worst injury crisis in living memory
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alot better without him... cowans,Mcallister and Pires teaching the young kids instead of Robertson and Walford teaching the old overpaid crap......
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£120 million spent and yet we still have no crew to man the oars and trim the sails.
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D'OhNeill had us sailing down the wrong river to get to the ocean. He got as far as he could down that river, I grant you. And the view, on occassion, was pretty nice.
But, in order to get to the ocean, he needed to turn the boat around. He refused to do it and chose instead to walk the plank, floating aimlessly until some Arabs came along and have him lots of money to captain their little boat up some shitty estuary no-one really knows (or cares) anything about.
So, now we're reversing course in order to find the right river that takes us to the ocean.
On the way, we've already caught some fish. They've not matured to full flavour yet and one isn't even legal size but it looks so so good. No doubt the new captain, armed with a much longer reel and far more knowledge of the waters, will land us some excellent fish. And, eventually, I'm sure, we'll get to the ocean where we'll be joined by bikini models with legs that don't quit and magnificent breasts, pouting lips and this really unique way of...oh, hang on - wrong website. Sorry.
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Thats a much better example than my attempt
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Very nicely done Troy.
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Its strange what some so called fans can find positive in a time of adversity
Its as though the worst injury list in memory didn't exist, or that the start of the problems were caused by a turncoat quitting a poorly prepared side just as the season started.
Interesting stuff
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I was a MON supporter for most of his time with us. Howver the last 9-12 months he became far too stubborn for his own good, and his departure leaving us when he did, in the manner that he did was nothing short of disgraceful. He did a lot of good things, but people will rightly or wrongly remember him for his final act. Houllier will take much of what has been left him and push this club on to better days faster than MON would have had he stayed.
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Toto i think you supported him until the end, but its good you have now seen the error of your ways
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I have major doubts about Houllier - I have from day one.
But we're effectively still in fire fighting mode at present and the guy deserves some time to implement his own ideas and strategies. Some look promising, others less so.
Thing is, even if he struggles to the point that we need to make a change at the end of the season or in 12-18 months that is a direct consequence of the timing of MON's departure in the first place. It was the worst, most inopportune time to leave, resulting in a limited selection pool as most other managers (unlike MON) wouldn't bail on their club at that time of year to join us. The ones who were good enough for the role anyroad.
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Last season we lost 5 away from home in total. So far this season we've already lost 4. Yes he was wrong to walk out when he did but you can't dispute the facts of the contual top 6 finishes and wembley appearances. I remember many wanting MON to go were the same people who were asking for Mourinho, Jol and Hiddink to replace him. I wonder if they've sobered up yet. I don't blame GH he's doing what he can with the cards he's been dealt however the team is going backwards quickly. Is everyone happy now?!
Lost five away actually in the league, Newcastle, Stoke, Spurs, Sunderland and Blackburn
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Our problem is that we are weighed down with too much ballast. Also, we sourced much of this ballast at the dock before we set sale rather than at foreign ports where we would have been able to source lighter and cheaper ballast. We spent £6million on some orange ballast from Chelsea that is neither use nor ornament and these kind of mistakes dogged the captaincy of our former captain. He also put this ballast in the wrong place leading to a horribly unbalanced ship.
We also are down to the bare bones in terms of crew. We have lost two first officers from the engine room one after the other and whilst First Officer Reo Coker and his predecessor Petrov had their deficiencies they were both solid officers with reasonable knowledge of operating the boat. We are having to staff HMS Aston Villa with cadets for Pete's sake! Sure the Scottish Cadet and his colleague from Tamworth are promising officers but it is not ideal to rely on such inexperienced crew.
Our new captain needs time to get going and restaff the ship but I have every confidence in him.
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as a Martin O' Neill fan
As a fellow fan of our previous manager I think it's somewhat redundant to argue about his pros and cons. He's gone and the club, the team and us fans need to move on.
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He did absoloutely nothing to prepare the squad for the coming season, we have the worst injury crisis in living memory
Virtually all of the injuries have occurred since GH came in with a more rigorous training regime. I'm not blaming GH as this is the juggling act that occurs with all clubs. Train them a lot and risk a lot more injuries but ultimately build up the stamina to the desired level. Don't train them hard enough and less chance of injuries but ultimately less fitness and staying power for the whole season. Although MON could have alleviated the second bit by rotating the squad more in previous seasons.
Hopefully with most of our players missing for a quarter of the season each it will mean we will have a stronger finish anyway this year. What I'm really looking forward to is a win in March so hopefully Houllier can deliver.
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Its strange what some so called fans can find positive in a time of adversity
I'd rather than than finding negatives in times of success, relative or otherwise.
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He did absoloutely nothing to prepare the squad for the coming season, we have the worst injury crisis in living memory
Virtually all of the injuries have occurred since GH came in with a more rigorous training regime. I'm not blaming GH as this is the juggling act that occurs with all clubs.
You kind of are though, why mention it otherwise?
How about Petrov, NRC and the others that were injured in games or in practice games?
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Its strange what some so called fans can find positive in a time of adversity
Tsk! It's "fans" if you please.
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Yeah MON was the man, he was great.
Another four years of Martin and we would have been bankrupt. What would Martin have done with all these injuries? Spend spend spend and continue to stifle our youth academy.
We are in a transitional period. Look at how well Bolton are playing, after allowing nearly a year for the manager to settle in.
Be patient things are looking positive.
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I have major doubts about Houllier - I have from day one.
But we're effectively still in fire fighting mode at present and the guy deserves some time to implement his own ideas and strategies. Some look promising, others less so.
Thing is, even if he struggles to the point that we need to make a change at the end of the season or in 12-18 months that is a direct consequence of the timing of MON's departure in the first place. It was the worst, most inopportune time to leave, resulting in a limited selection pool as most other managers (unlike MON) wouldn't bail on their club at that time of year to join us. The ones who were good enough for the role anyroad.
Agree lets face it GH would not have been anyehere near the list of the fans top candidates, its a gamble like any appointment, i think its a better gamble than giving MON another wad of cash and expecting him to sort the defeciences that he had created, the timing was awful, i remember listening to Sir Clive Woodward talking about Roy Keane walking out on Ireland at the WC Japan, he said that Mcarthy should have known his tempremant and his ability to handle it or not take him, i think Randy should have seen the signs with MON earlier, its easier said than done I know
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He did absoloutely nothing to prepare the squad for the coming season, we have the worst injury crisis in living memory
Virtually all of the injuries have occurred since GH came in with a more rigorous training regime. I'm not blaming GH as this is the juggling act that occurs with all clubs.
You kind of are though, why mention it otherwise?
How about Petrov, NRC and the others that were injured in games or in practice games?
We have loads of injuries because no one at the club has been properly fit for years, that's why we have faded badly the last two seasons.
We were all blinded thinking Martin was great, but he has actually messed this club up trying to get short term success for himself.
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With Mon in charge, it was much like the Royal Navy: living on great past glory's but in drastic need of a major overall. Enter the French to come in, patch us up, and help push us forward to sunnier seas!
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Toto i think you supported him until the end, but its good you have now seen the error of your ways
I played Wizard of Oz with your mum last night. She was Dorothy, I was Toto and we had a jar of peanut butter. It got really messy. Good times.
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With Mon in charge, it was much like the Royal Navy: living on great past glory's but in drastic need of a major overall. Enter the French to come in, patch us up, and help push us forward to sunnier seas!
You hope. Because at the moment we are 3 points above the relegation zone. Oh, yeah lets wait until January..lol.
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With Mon in charge, it was much like the Royal Navy: living on great past glory's but in drastic need of a major overall. Enter the French to come in, patch us up, and help push us forward to sunnier seas!
You hope. Because at the moment we are 3 points above the relegation zone. Oh, yeah lets wait until January..lol.
Is this the same league where we are 5 points of 5th also?
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No, must be a different league.
We haven't won in ages and we almost certainly won't be picking up points against Arsenal. We are in a rut with injuries as well and players under performing. Nobody knows when the next win is going to come. Sure we may be 5 points off of 5th, but as I said nobody knows when we will start to collect points, so in the mean time they're going to be looking down at the other end of the table. ::)
-5 goal difference after 14 games into the season. Strikers who couldn't finish off their supper before bed. It is an absolute fucking shambles and has been since the summer.
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Reality - what is the point you're trying to make? I'm confused.
We're probably all aware that we're going through a tough time but you come across as almost suicidal in a fair number of your posts. Have you not seen anything this season that has bought you some joy? The emergence of Albrighton, Bannan or Clark? Downing and Heskey looking half decent players at last? The better style of football? The less tangible hope that something different is around the corner?
I personally think we were more stuck in a rut with MON in charge as he had revealed his hand and it was proven to not be good enough. Right now, we just don't know which means there is at least hope for the future. Isn't there?
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I accept the timing of MON leaving was bad but I don't think he left a bad squad behind. One point I wanted to make was the lack of communication from Randy Lerner and/or Paul Faulkner. I don't want a David Sullivan situation spouting off about individual players and setting points targets but from the moment MON left up to the present we have heard next to nothing about future ambitions.
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The Aston Villa Football Club are far bigger, better and more important than Martin O'Neill.
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Hear hear Legion well said.
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I dont know the reasons why mon left and i dont really care as he will never be forgiven and as been said many times before any good work he did is now defunked in my book.More worrying for me is our inability to sell seats at villa park even for the big games and even at reduced prices and on general sale ,even with what i percieve as much much better brand of football.
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I liked him, enjoyed his time in charge, enjoyed some fantastic games - Emirates, Goodison, Spurs 125 birthday party, Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford....
Enjoyed Villa's resurgence under him.
I hope Houllier does as well/better than O'Neill but I can't deny that I was hapy with O'Neill in charge.
The way he left us dosent affect the way I felt about him while he was with us. Just the same as with Saunders.
I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
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D'OhNeill had us sailing down the wrong river to get to the ocean. He got as far as he could down that river, I grant you. And the view, on occassion, was pretty nice.
But, in order to get to the ocean, he needed to turn the boat around. He refused to do it and chose instead to walk the plank, floating aimlessly until some Arabs came along and have him lots of money to captain their little boat up some shitty estuary no-one really knows (or cares) anything about.
So, now we're reversing course in order to find the right river that takes us to the ocean.
On the way, we've already caught some fish. They've not matured to full flavour yet and one isn't even legal size but it looks so so good. No doubt the new captain, armed with a much longer reel and far more knowledge of the waters, will land us some excellent fish. And, eventually, I'm sure, we'll get to the ocean where we'll be joined by bikini models with legs that don't quit and magnificent breasts, pouting lips and this really unique way of...oh, hang on - wrong website. Sorry.
haha... couldnt have put it better myself...
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Oddly enough, I'd say our long-term plan and strategy now is better defined than at any time under Martin; we have a good coaching team in place so that, when Houllier does step down, hopefully the whole thing won't collapse like a house of cards. We have a manager who has recognised the coaching talent within the club, and promoted accordingly (not just giving jobs to his mates); young players - hell, not even that young, some of them are 21-22 - being given a chance to show they can genuinely contribute to the squad - and a manager who has a far more open view of the transfer market.
Results need to improve, of course. But yes, we are five points off 5th. Next win coming from? Well, it's not that drastic... we've taken four points from our last two home games and that really should have been six. And if anyone cannot see the restrictions Houllier is working with at the moment... you have my pity.
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I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
That's a bit extreme isn't it, Chico?
I liked O'Neill the person as well. I enjoyed finishing in the top six. I enjoyed going to Wembley. For two years, though, I didn't enjoy going to our home matches, because we were largely dire to watch. I also think it was pretty plain that we'd plateaud under MON - to move on further would have required tactical nous, which I personally don't think he had. I suspect had he stayed, it would have been more of the same, with more money thrown at it. That's just my opinion, though.
I was extremely annoyed by the manner and timing of his departure, both of which pretty much ensured this was going to be at best a season of consolidation.
I think that sacking him would have been ridiculous, and that he'd earned the right to at least another season having a go, but to read the opening post on this thread, you'd think we actually had sacked him.
We didn't. Things got a little rocky and he resigned - first hint of troubled times and he was off. That's disappointing.
What I do think is incredibly unfair is to hold up this season - the turmoil of which was caused by the previous manager leaving when he did - as an example of why said previous manager was so great.
As for the squad, yes, he left us with some very good players, but we are now also starting to appreciate that he left us with a very lopsided squad - 30m pounds worth of centre halves, but desperately in need of a goalscorer, for example.
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We have a manager who has recognised the coaching talent within the club, and promoted accordingly (not just giving jobs to his mates); young players - hell, not even that young, some of them are 21-22 - being given a chance to show they can genuinely contribute to the squad - and a manager who has a far more open view of the transfer market.
Lets not get too carried away here.
1. He's promoted Sid, but that was after the bloke he was after didn't want to come.
2. The kids are playing through injuries and not choice.
3. One out of window does not tell us his transfer policy.
Despite the results I like what I'm seeing from Gezza, but let's not try to make it out to be something it's not. As we said when he took over, the time to start making judgements is next season.
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I liked him, enjoyed his time in charge, enjoyed some fantastic games - Emirates, Goodison, Spurs 125 birthday party, Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford....
Enjoyed Villa's resurgence under him.
I hope Houllier does as well/better than O'Neill but I can't deny that I was hapy with O'Neill in charge.
The way he left us dosent affect the way I felt about him while he was with us. Just the same as with Saunders.
I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
That just about mirrors my feelings about him.
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That's a bit extreme isn't it, Chico?
I don't think so. There's 2 posts on this thread alone, reminding Damo that Villa are bigger than any individual - as if he suggested anything different.
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Main problem is that we lost our best player from last season and signed no one bar Ireland because City wouldnt give us the money we wanted.
I thought Ireland would be far far better, but it looks like he just wont be able to fit into the team with the personnel we have at present.
So while we disimproved over the summer, all of those around us and below us improved. Where the blame lies for that...we can't be sure....
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I'm still trying to get my head round the fact that the squad weren't fit enough in previous years to get injured, now we've upped the training we're getting more injuries.
Perhaps the fit ones are really, really fit, it's the injured ones that would be really fit if they weren't injured obviously.
I liked Martin, we had some great years but he did annoy the tits off me on occasions.
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I liked Martin, we had some great years but he did annoy the tits off me on occasions.
Well summed up!
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I liked him, enjoyed his time in charge, enjoyed some fantastic games - Emirates, Goodison, Spurs 125 birthday party, Stamford Bridge, Old Trafford....
Enjoyed Villa's resurgence under him.
I hope Houllier does as well/better than O'Neill but I can't deny that I was hapy with O'Neill in charge.
The way he left us dosent affect the way I felt about him while he was with us. Just the same as with Saunders.
I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
That just about mirrors my feelings about him.
I would hitch myself to this band wagon as well, if I may.
All aboard ... Chico's iron sledge
Please don't call me Reg
It's not my name
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We have a manager who has recognised the coaching talent within the club, and promoted accordingly (not just giving jobs to his mates); young players - hell, not even that young, some of them are 21-22 - being given a chance to show they can genuinely contribute to the squad - and a manager who has a far more open view of the transfer market.
Lets not get too carried away here.
1. He's promoted Sid, but that was after the bloke he was after didn't want to come.
2. The kids are playing through injuries and not choice.
3. One out of window does not tell us his transfer policy.
Despite the results I like what I'm seeing from Gezza, but let's not try to make it out to be something it's not. As we said when he took over, the time to start making judgements is next season.
I'm posting as I see it now John, thanks very much. I won't form a proper judgement on Houllier until he's had a couple of seasons at least but right now, I see that he's starting to form a sounder infrastructure than O'Neill, who has always taken the same coaching staff with him from club to club. Sid may well have had a role in the first team set-up regardless of who else Houllier appointed; after all, if Houllier didn't see the value in using Cowans, he wouldn't have done it.
As for the young players, we all know he's being forced to use them more regularly than he would have liked because of the injuries - Hogg wouldn't be anywhere near the team otherwise. But Houllier picked Clark over Cuellar, and used Bannan more frequently even when Petrov and Reo-Coker were fit.
As for transfer policy.... I'm taking a leap of faith and assuming Houllier may look further afield than O'Neill did. I might be proved wrong on that.
I can assure you I'm not getting carried away by anything! Who can, in the current climate? But I can see the potential for the next few years, and positive changes taking place.
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I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
I think when you see a post saying "as a MON fan..." it leaves the writer of said fawning tribute open to that particular charge. Particularly when the rest of the post was effectively along the lines of 'you never had it so good.' It just needed 'so called Villa fans' for the full set.
I could understand was a MON fan - past tense. I think most could agree it wasn't all bad and there were some fantastic memories over the four years. Probably not enough to justify the outlay, good faith and favourable conditions he operated under, true. And there was a nagging feeling from about Feb/March 2009 onwards that he'd done his chips and his limitations would block further progress. But that's by the by.
I'd struggle to see how any Villa supporter could still be a fan of the bloke after the way he left us well and truly in the shit this summer though.
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I'm not sure why somone can't admit that they liked O'Neill without being accused of liking the man more than the club.....
I think when you see a post saying "as a MON fan..." it leaves the writer of said fawning tribute open to that particular charge. Particularly when the rest of the post was effectively along the lines of 'you never had it so good.' It just needed 'so called Villa fans' for the full set.
I could understand was a MON fan - past tense. I think most could agree it wasn't all bad and there were some fantastic memories over the four years. Probably not enough to justify the outlay, good faith and favourable conditions he operated under, true. And there was a nagging feeling from about Feb/March 2009 onwards that he'd done his chips and his limitations would block further progress. But that's by the by.
I'd struggle to see how any Villa supporter could still be a fan of the bloke after the way he left us well and truly in the shit this summer though.
Spot on Kevin.
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I'd struggle to see how any Villa supporter could still be a fan of the bloke after the way he left us well and truly in the shit this summer though.
The way I see it, there are two arguments here. One is about his merits, or lack thereof, as our manager and the other is his integrity and motivation of the timing of his departure.
For the 1st, I was happy with the progress we were making and I think how good a job he was doing is now being shown by our present position. As to the 2nd, I still think we don't, and probably never will, know the full story. But those who felt he was a 'bad' manager seem to side with the idea he was a complete bastard, yet those like myself who were fans generally don't. This is unusual as one doesn't really have anything to do with the other.
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How about those who thought he was a good manager (as I did) and still thought he was a complete bastard for leaving when he did?
It is possible to separate the two, his stint with us and the manner of his departure.
Only one man brought the hammer down on MON's time at the club and that was MON himself. The vast majority of the support were behind him (even if doubts were growing most believed he deserved another year at the very least) and RL backed him, even if he did require the wage > turnover ratio to be addressed. In line with other clubs across the country.
But this has been done to death. Others who are still looking for conspiracy theories despite the General saying the wage bill was the tipping point (and MON not contradicting that) will still look to absolve him in some way, or attempt to create enough doubt so as to suggest he wan't completely liable.
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How about those who thought he was a good manager (as I did) and still thought he was a complete bastard for leaving when he did?
It is possible to separate the two, his stint with us and the manner of his departure.
Only one man brought the hammer down on MON's time at the club and that was MON himself. The vast majority of the support were behind him (even if doubts were growing most believed he deserved another year at the very least) and RL backed him, even if he did require the wage > turnover ratio to be addressed. In line with other clubs across the country.
But this has been done to death. Others who are still looking for conspiracy theories despite the General saying the wage bill was the tipping point (and MON not contradicting that) will still look to absolve him in some way, or attempt to create enough doubt so as to suggest he wan't completely liable.
If that's your view then fair enough, but I do think it's possible to separate the two.
I don't think it's a matter of conspiracy theories, but if these workig conditions were set out at the start of the summer, why wasn't the decision taken then? I simply don't believe he decided to go but waited until a week before the season to do it so as to fully fuck us over - that's another conspiracy theory.
Personally I think he had a problem with Faulkner. And the 'if the chairman was at the end of the corridor' comment might bear this out. If that's true then do we say he tried to make it work and couldn't or he should have walked earlier? Take your choice on that one, but I think you're right and this has been done to death!
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting, whether you loved or hated him, thought his signings were good, bad or indifferent, the results are there for all to see, we can all have judgements on whether he could have done more with the resources he had or thought he punched above his weight.
Gerard Houllier's performance as a manager should be judged in isolation and there shouldn't be any caveats about the perceived strengths/weaknesses he inherited.
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting, whether you loved or hated him, thought his signings were good, bad or indifferent, the results are there for all to see, we can all have judgements on whether he could have done more with the resources he had or thought he punched above his weight.
Gerard Houllier's performance as a manager should be judged in isolation and there shouldn't be any caveats about the perceived strengths/weaknesses he inherited.
I understand what your saying but it will only be possible to do that once he has had an opportunity to buy and sell players, and has served a similar tenure to MON. Right now, it's MON's squad, and we are still clearing the debris of the collapse of MON's "reign" as manager. The good thing is, behind the scenes, there's a lot of goodness at the club, both in terms of structure and youth development which will help propel the club forward faster once Houllier's system is properly up and running.
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting
I'm going for 12th April 2025.
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting
I'm going for 12th April 2025.
Far too soon. Add another 20 years to that.
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But, in order to get to the ocean, he needed to turn the boat around. He refused to do it and chose instead to walk the plank, floating aimlessly until some Arabs came along and have him lots of money to captain their little boat up some shitty estuary no-one really knows (or cares) anything about.
Couldn't disagree more. He jumped ship to drown. He saw what was happening at Man City and thought "what's the point?" after spending 4 seasons building up his team, Man City were just going to cruise past in one season because of the ridiculous amount of money they have. He will not manage another club in England because he, like most fans, thinks modern football is shit.
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting, whether you loved or hated him, thought his signings were good, bad or indifferent, the results are there for all to see, we can all have judgements on whether he could have done more with the resources he had or thought he punched above his weight.
Gerard Houllier's performance as a manager should be judged in isolation and there shouldn't be any caveats about the perceived strengths/weaknesses he inherited.
I understand what your saying but it will only be possible to do that once he has had an opportunity to buy and sell players, and has served a similar tenure to MON. Right now, it's MON's squad, and we are still clearing the debris of the collapse of MON's "reign" as manager. The good thing is, behind the scenes, there's a lot of goodness at the club, both in terms of structure and youth development which will help propel the club forward faster once Houllier's system is properly up and running.
At the moment Gerard is getting the plaudits (and rightly so) for the emergence of Bannan, and trusting in young players without making any excuses about the number of injuries we have got.
But when things go wrong, like the defensive mistakes we're making and the increase in injuries, it's too easy to blame MON for it, GH has to take the responsibility for it.
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I doubt we'll be blaming Martin O'Neill for any problems we'll be having in 15 years time, but it can't be ignored that he left us in a very difficult situation, and we've all but 'wasted' half a season as time was massively against us in terms of recruitment. On paper, Houllier inherited almost a top six squad but it's not quite so straightforward as that, as there were clearly divisions in the ranks and a large proportion of unsettled players - and since then, events have conspired against Houllier with a ridiculous injury list. He'll get the chance to shape his team over the next couple of years.
I'm pretty much with Kevin on MON - backed him for most of his reign, concern creeping in during season three with repeated strange use of players out of position, some odd signings considering how they were then used, doubts lingering in season four even though, of course, the cup runs were exciting. Can't forget the manner of his departure now though, and loyalty is, as always, firmly with Villa and moving forward.
I'm sure Houllier will make decisions that perplex us over the coming months and years though.
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There needs to be a time limit soon on blaming any/all of our problems on MON quitting, whether you loved or hated him, thought his signings were good, bad or indifferent, the results are there for all to see, we can all have judgements on whether he could have done more with the resources he had or thought he punched above his weight.
Gerard Houllier's performance as a manager should be judged in isolation and there shouldn't be any caveats about the perceived strengths/weaknesses he inherited.
We have a shit time with injuries and a few players that need to be shipped out and improved upon. I don't think anyone will claim that Houllier will be continued to get excuses (which is what they will be then) ad infinitum. Rather he will receive justifications and reasons for what he inherited (I think personally our team would be going nowhere fast regardless of who is manager) and the bad luck with injuries and of course coming in at a bad time preventing him from signing players. My personal opinion and I think that of most of those who are defending the manager is that he should have the chance to shape the team and bring in/ship out players. I think we will see where we are next season and anyone who thinks otherwise is being downright unreasonable or is an eternal pessimist. Noone here who is defending Gerard holds blind faith. I just wish some people (a small minority) on here would give him a chance.
I liked the former manager though I was unhappy with some of the things he did I felt he had earned the right to continue. For whatever reason though he chose not to do this. He has now become, like so many others who have forsaken 'my' Aston Villa, dead to me. I don't know his reasons, fair or not, but he's gone and I don't care where he ends up. He didn't lead us to unparalleled glory and he didn't fuck up so I have neither the energy nor the wherewithal to give a crap. I do think we'd be in a similar situation to where we are, if not worse, had he stayed. We've replaced one reasonably good manager with another.
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See thread Aston Villa: a Nautical Metaphor
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/forumv3/index.php?topic=41141.0
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
I reckon 3 full seasons is more than enough to judge if a manager can cut it or not.
O'Neill had 4, he had more than a fair crack of the whip.
I doubt he'll ever find a club in the future that will give him the free rein and finances that he enjoyed here.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and used the boards decision not to sign McGeady and Keane as an excuse to jump ship.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
I reckon 3 full seasons is more than enough to judge if a manager can cut it or not.
O'Neill had 4, he had more than a fair crack of the whip.
I doubt he'll ever find a club in the future that will give him the free rein and finances that he enjoyed here.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and used the boards decision not to sign McGeady and Keane as an excuse to jump ship.
I don't want to go over old ground, we've done it to death.
My point is a more general one; that any manager has to deliver early or some fans will turn and that once that starts it quickly builds. So even if we are arguing that GH is putting in place a long term structure, even if we think that there are real signs that the team might develop it won't matter to them unless we're challenging for the top 6 and doing well in the cups. It's not just a Villa thing, most clubs have the same problem, but it makes the job difficult for a manager who might take a more long term strategic view.
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Looking back on MON's time I'd say that his strengths were pretty much everything except football. How many times did we hear players wax lyrical about wanting to play for him, he was a good leader that could motivate his players to give everything for 90 minutes. His signings improved each year, despite restricting them to the shores of the UK. I guess he was in too much of a rush and wasn't prepared to gamble on a foreign player and the time it may take for him to settle in. He was very thorough in making sure he got the right man which may have frustrated some but it was all about the getting the right players in.
His media profile was good for the club, even though he often spoke in riddles, the press loved him. He was ambitious and whilst things were going well, he was happy (to take the praise). Ok, he never loved the club but then very few managers do and having come from Celtic and witnessed week in, week out their support, we were never going to have the same kind of relationship. It was very much a one way love affair but he should count himself lucky he arrived at the club when he did. No other Villa manager has had the fortune of those conditions and I doubt any future manager will either.
His only real weakness is he's not a footballing manager. He's tactically niave, has little understanding of the modern game and despite the large investment made by the club, relied solely on power and effort to grind out results. He realised that we are in a results industry and he didn't really care how we got the points, as long as we got them. Most of the fans went along with that although towards the end of his time at VP, some were starting to question him, something he rejected as ill-informed. His ego would never allow anybody to question him, which is pretty much why he left.
If MON had sorted out our home form to compliment our fantistic away record, the man would have been a legend. But that was never going to happen, not just because he didn't have the football know-how to fix it but because he surrounded himself by people that didn't know how to either.
As for Houllier, it's far too early to make any judgements. Once he has a settled side and a few signings we'll soon know how good he is and what weaknesses he has. The one thing I think he will bring with him is more entertaining football although I'm not sure if he can get the results to match, at least not in the short term. After MON, more entertaining play should be easy but how long will fans put up with graceful defeats and lost points. I can hear Chris Smith making a list of Mowbray references as we speak.
For now, I'm just glad the Villa have joined the 21st century. It's just a shame we left it so late.
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His media profile was good for the club, even though he often spoke in riddles, the press loved him. He was ambitious and whilst things were going well, he was happy (to take the praise). Ok, he never loved the club but then very few managers do and having come from Celtic and witnessed week in, week out their support, we were never going to have the same kind of relationship. It was very much a one way love affair but he should count himself lucky he arrived at the club when he did. No other Villa manager has had the fortune of those conditions and I doubt any future manager will either.
That's the thing Mark.
For all this suggestion that he wasn't backed or that fans were getting impatient I can't recall a more popular Villa manager in my lifetime.
Certainly more popular support than BFR and Sir Brian despite not even coming close to delivering what they managed.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
I reckon 3 full seasons is more than enough to judge if a manager can cut it or not.
O'Neill had 4, he had more than a fair crack of the whip.
I doubt he'll ever find a club in the future that will give him the free rein and finances that he enjoyed here.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and used the boards decision not to sign McGeady and Keane as an excuse to jump ship.
I think there is an element of fan impatience as Chris says, but with O'Neill we saw no overall improvement in the standard of football, tactics or squad use in 4 years, so I honestly think he'd reached his plateau. Not wishing to go over old ground again, he had 4 years to improve the striking department, and failed miserabley to do it.
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Certainly more popular support than BFR and Sir Brian despite not even coming close to delivering what they managed.
Maybe it was becuse it was before the days of the internet, where, lets face it, people do like to have a pop, but I don't see MON as being any more popular than either of those two managers. If you take out the eurphoria of the time he arrived, where we were so glad Ellis sold up that everything associated with the club and randy looked great, then I'd argue he was less popular.
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I think there is an element of fan impatience as Chris says, but with O'Neill we saw no overall improvement in the standard of football, tactics or squad use in 4 years, so I honestly think he'd reached his plateau. Not wishing to go over old ground again, he had 4 years to improve the striking department, and failed miserabley to do it.
The thing is though we DID see results improve. League place remained the same, but points on the board and gap to 4th kept getting better.
But yes, the strikers was the one thing he never got right.
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I don't ever recall BFR or Brian Little getting the kind of individual support he received, Chelsea in the cup semi final as recently as April 10 being the standout example. There were plenty more. Particularly at home matches, oddly enough.
It bordered on hero worship at times, perhaps contributing to this notion that he was too good for us/ we were lucky to have him. Maybe he started to believe that himself.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
I reckon 3 full seasons is more than enough to judge if a manager can cut it or not.
O'Neill had 4, he had more than a fair crack of the whip.
I doubt he'll ever find a club in the future that will give him the free rein and finances that he enjoyed here.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and used the boards decision not to sign McGeady and Keane as an excuse to jump ship.
This pretence by some that they knew who MON wanted to sign is laughable. It was paper talk - just the same as all those who were ITK that we were going to sign Upson the summer before. Fact is MON always kept his transfer dealings close to his chest and any journalist or internet poster who pretends he knows who his targets were is kidding himself.
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We're slipping into another MON thread when what I wanted to do was suggest that GH has 2 years maximum to establish his credentials. If at the end of next season we're outside the top 6 and haven't made an impact in a cup or 2 then rumblings will start. I accept that it is a results driven business but such short termism makes long term planning difficult.
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Its strange what some so called fans can find positive in a time of adversity
Its as though the worst injury list in memory didn't exist, or that the start of the problems were caused by a turncoat quitting a poorly prepared side just as the season started.
Interesting stuff
These so-called "fans" need to be exposed!!!! Who are they?! What do they REALLY want!!!
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Its strange what some so called fans can find positive in a time of adversity
Its as though the worst injury list in memory didn't exist, or that the start of the problems were caused by a turncoat quitting a poorly prepared side just as the season started.
Interesting stuff
These so-called "fans" need to be exposed!!!! Who are they?! What do they REALLY want!!!
It's me, I am the "so called fan", and I want to teabag Helen Mirren.
Shit, did I say that out loud?
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I was a MON fan, but i'm also a GH fan as well.
I do think that out of the 5 games LOST away this year, a MON's team would'nt have lost at least 4.But saying that MON probably would'nt have played Bannan, and Albrighton so regurlarly.We are playing better football, and look more fragile, but i'm quite optimistic about the future, and regardless of when/where/why he went, i think we are probably in a better situation now than if he would have stayed.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
I reckon 3 full seasons is more than enough to judge if a manager can cut it or not.
O'Neill had 4, he had more than a fair crack of the whip.
I doubt he'll ever find a club in the future that will give him the free rein and finances that he enjoyed here.
I think he saw the writing on the wall and used the boards decision not to sign McGeady and Keane as an excuse to jump ship.
This pretence by some that they knew who MON wanted to sign is laughable. It was paper talk - just the same as all those who were ITK that we were going to sign Upson the summer before. Fact is MON always kept his transfer dealings close to his chest and any journalist or internet poster who pretends he knows who his targets were is kidding himself.
I know for a fact from somebody very close to the club, that he wanted the above 2 players in.
I bet you'd be more inclined to believe it if i'd said Van der Vaart and Darren Bent.
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Did'nt he try to sign VDV, or Sneijder last season?
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Did'nt he try to sign VDV, or Sneijder last season?
He said he rated the player during a press conference.
Some on here took it to mean we were in discussions with him (Sneijder)
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
Although in MON's case, he was the one who got impatient / started looking elsewhere and jumped ship.
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But yes, the strikers was the one thing he never got right.
I'd actually say that very few Villa managers of the last 15 years have got it right when it comes to signing strikers (honourable exception, dear old Big Ron).
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It bordered on hero worship at times,
Bordered on ???
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honourable exception, dear old Big Ron
Cough....John Fashanu...Cough
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
Why 2 years ?
If the bloke isn't producing and he does not have obvious excuses why wait 2 years? Lets face it some fans were demanding we give our previous manager more time when even he felt he'd be found out and quit, but in hindsight those who always questioned his credentials and sincerity were mostly right.
A manager stands or falls by his results and only extenuating circumstances allow him to be free from criticism, after all he gets paid tubfulls of money, likes the limelight and should, as most do, accept the brickbats.
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The good thing about the club at the moment is that everyone seems to be pulling together in the same direction. Whilst to some that direction might appear to be backwards, sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.
The problem before seemed to be that there was MON, his little band of merry men, and his first 11, then there was the rest of the club. There was also another seeming problem, that despite MON's admirable results, he just didn't have a sustainable approach, neither financially nor technically.
The professionalism that is now endemic in almost every club in the premier league runs through every area of a club, clubs now have to be tightly run ships that utilise and maximise every single resource they have available to them to often just bring about survival, never mind success at the top. This is one reason why things are so tight this season, other clubs are now learning how to maximise their resources.
Whilst MON was good at many things, his flaws and shortcomings were just too costly for the overall structure of a modern premiership club. Overpriced, overpaid players, some of which he then ignored, a seeming reluctance to buy foreign players, not utilising his full squad, not maximising fitness, debatable training techniques, not developing a smoother transition between the reserve and senior squads, debatable tactical nous, etc. All in all I think MON was sailing against the prevailing wind of change in modern football. If he'd been able to adapt, to incorporate the new with the very good sound old principles and knowledge he had, then he could have been a great manager. But I always got the feeling that he stopped learning a few years ago and was too stubborn and set in his ways to change and so improve.
I think that now we once again have a united club that are all singing from the same hymn sheet and will be more integrated. We are certainly not a rudderless ship, for we have a targeted destination and a plan of how to get there, and it is indeed the best thought out route we could choose, though it means going back on ourselves slightly to get to that route. Whilst some of the scenery was nice on the journey he took us upon, most people could see the rocks ahead lying just under the surface.
MON thought he was bigger than the ship, treated it's owners with contempt and almost stirred up a mutiny against himself by his actions to the crew, he didn't seem to care of course, for as many times before, he had his little escape pod for him and his close cohorts to escape in if things got troubled. And oh how he chose his moment to jump ship.
McDonald steadied the ship, Houllier has now come in to get us back on course, but it's a big job, for our results perhaps disguised how far off course we had been blown, and exactly how much damage was done below the waterline. Of course there are those that only see above the waterline, that only care about results, positions and the short term picture; draws, loses, lack of goals, injuries, etc. But the thing to remember is that unless things are sound under the waterline, everything will eventually come crashing down. I have confidence that within a couple of years we will be in sight of the promised land, and that even if Captain Houllier doesn't take us all of the way there, he will get us most of the way there.
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Hmm... I too was a Martin O'Neil fan while he managed this club. Then the malodourous cuntmonkey fucked off a week before the start of the season and I stopped being a fan of his and became a hater.
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The injury crisis has meant that we cannot make any sort of informed judgement on what Houllier will bring. However, as sure as night follows day he will get a maximum of 2 years before some fans will have the knives out if we haven't advanced in line with their expectations. It will start with a trickle but others will join in over the third season. This isn't meant as a dig at anyone but it's just a sad fact of life that managers get very little time before the more imaptient start looking elsewhere.
Why 2 years ?
If the bloke isn't producing and he does not have obvious excuses why wait 2 years? Lets face it some fans were demanding we give our previous manager more time when even he felt he'd be found out and quit, but in hindsight those who always questioned his credentials and sincerity were mostly right.
A manager stands or falls by his results and only extenuating circumstances allow him to be free from criticism, after all he gets paid tubfulls of money, likes the limelight and should, as most do, accept the brickbats.
Because people will be on his case within 2 years if we're not in the champions league. It's that attitude that hinders long term planning. Of course he needs to attend to results but he also has to be given time and be allowed to make the odd mistake without having the mob on his back.
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honourable exception, dear old Big Ron
Cough....John Fashanu...Cough
Ha! I'd happily see us sign a John Fashanu today if it meant we also got a Dean Saunders and a Dalian Atkinson! (drifts off into daydream about the goals those two scored......)
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I agree, Merv.
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honourable exception, dear old Big Ron
Cough....John Fashanu...Cough
Ha! I'd happily see us sign a John Fashanu today if it meant we also got a Dean Saunders and a Dalian Atkinson! (drifts off into daydream about the goals those two scored......)
60 in 195 league games between them. Saunders in particular got a very easy ride considering he was yet another one in three striker.
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Saunders was a bit wasteful with his chances and Dalian blew very hot and cold, but.... bloody exciting to watch though, eh? Yorkie as an option too...
I loved watching that team.
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Saunders was a bit wasteful with his chances and Dalian blew very hot and cold, but.... bloody exciting to watch though, eh? Yorkie as an option too...
I loved watching that team.
On their day they were great. Sadly, their days weren't very often.
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Saunders was a bit wasteful with his chances and Dalian blew very hot and cold, but.... bloody exciting to watch though, eh? Yorkie as an option too...
I loved watching that team.
On their day they were great. Sadly, their days weren't very often.
Yet we've never had a better side since!
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On their day they were great. Sadly, their days weren't very often.
Hmmm, I must admit, I thought their overall stats were better than they were. I think, much like Ron, they both ran out of steam and ended up just kind of fading away. Shame. Good fun while it lasted though.
I do think we've really struggled to find that top-class striker though; Yorke is the exception. Gabby might still get there, but a consistent goalscorer always seems to elude us.
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We have to take a step back to go further forward than O'neill could ever have taken us. I'm still glad he's gone. Lose the battle to win the war and all that.
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We have to take a step back to go further forward than O'neill could ever have taken us. I'm still glad he's gone. Lose the battle to win the war and all that.
Must admit I'm not totally sure I understand that PW.
Removing O'Neill and replacing him in our own time, and with the right man, was the way forward, Randy i feel was too nice to do it.
Being left high and dry and in the manner we were, which then forced RL to look for possibly a second choice alternative is more than a step back, especially when you consider the subsequent start under a make do alternative and the recent horrific injury list.
I'm no fan of O'Neill as a person or as a coach, but he did stabilise a rocking ship and did an adequate job, even if he did waste much of Randy's war chest, in putting us on the verge. Yes I don't think he would have taken us on, but the manner of his exit has probably undone much of the little good he did and possibly put us back to near when he started.
I've no axe to grind re Houllier, but I have my doubts he's up to pushing us on, and certainly not the calibre of person we may have got had RL taken the bull by the horns and took the flak from the Mon lovers, by ridding the club of Mon at the end of last season.
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Because people will be on his case within 2 years if we're not in the champions league. It's that attitude that hinders long term planning. Of course he needs to attend to results but he also has to be given time and be allowed to make the odd mistake without having the mob on his back.
No worries, he'll always have you to defend him, Chris. (winky)
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On their day they were great. Sadly, their days weren't very often.
Hmmm, I must admit, I thought their overall stats were better than they were. I think, much like Ron, they both ran out of steam and ended up just kind of fading away. Shame. Good fun while it lasted though.
I do think we've really struggled to find that top-class striker though; Yorke is the exception. Gabby might still get there, but a consistent goalscorer always seems to elude us.
Saunders and Dalian were great for the first half season or so and then went off the boil. Dalian couldn't be arsed most of the time and Saunders tended to flatter to deceive and score in bursts inbetween long non-scoring runs. BFR tried to remedy this by buying other strikers - Guy Wittingham and John Fash. Neither of these came off and it took Brian Little to realise that Yorke should be the main striker.
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I'd rather have a bit of fun on the off topics, but as a Martin O' Neill fan I have to say to all of those who wanted him out - are we better off without him? Will we be better off without him in a year? I'm betting that those who were fed up finishing in the top six will have their way, because I don't think we will be there again soon. If certain people thought he was too powerfull at the club, well he's gone now so you can speak up and tell us the big plan for the future. Mr Lerner, Mr Faulkner, Mr Houllier???
Do you mean the people who were fed up with sixth being the limit of our capabilities?
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The good thing about the club at the moment is that everyone seems to be pulling together in the same direction. Whilst to some that direction might appear to be backwards, sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward.
The problem before seemed to be that there was MON, his little band of merry men, and his first 11, then there was the rest of the club. There was also another seeming problem, that despite MON's admirable results, he just didn't have a sustainable approach, neither financially nor technically.
The professionalism that is now endemic in almost every club in the premier league runs through every area of a club, clubs now have to be tightly run ships that utilise and maximise every single resource they have available to them to often just bring about survival, never mind success at the top. This is one reason why things are so tight this season, other clubs are now learning how to maximise their resources.
Whilst MON was good at many things, his flaws and shortcomings were just too costly for the overall structure of a modern premiership club. Overpriced, overpaid players, some of which he then ignored, a seeming reluctance to buy foreign players, not utilising his full squad, not maximising fitness, debatable training techniques, not developing a smoother transition between the reserve and senior squads, debatable tactical nous, etc. All in all I think MON was sailing against the prevailing wind of change in modern football. If he'd been able to adapt, to incorporate the new with the very good sound old principles and knowledge he had, then he could have been a great manager. But I always got the feeling that he stopped learning a few years ago and was too stubborn and set in his ways to change and so improve.
I think that now we once again have a united club that are all singing from the same hymn sheet and will be more integrated. We are certainly not a rudderless ship, for we have a targeted destination and a plan of how to get there, and it is indeed the best thought out route we could choose, though it means going back on ourselves slightly to get to that route. Whilst some of the scenery was nice on the journey he took us upon, most people could see the rocks ahead lying just under the surface.
MON thought he was bigger than the ship, treated it's owners with contempt and almost stirred up a mutiny against himself by his actions to the crew, he didn't seem to care of course, for as many times before, he had his little escape pod for him and his close cohorts to escape in if things got troubled. And oh how he chose his moment to jump ship.
McDonald steadied the ship, Houllier has now come in to get us back on course, but it's a big job, for our results perhaps disguised how far off course we had been blown, and exactly how much damage was done below the waterline. Of course there are those that only see above the waterline, that only care about results, positions and the short term picture; draws, loses, lack of goals, injuries, etc. But the thing to remember is that unless things are sound under the waterline, everything will eventually come crashing down. I have confidence that within a couple of years we will be in sight of the promised land, and that even if Captain Houllier doesn't take us all of the way there, he will get us most of the way there.
Excellent post.
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Whilst MON was good at many things, his flaws and shortcomings were just too costly for the overall structure of a modern premiership club. Overpriced, overpaid players, some of which he then ignored, a seeming reluctance to buy foreign players, not utilising his full squad, not maximising fitness, debatable training techniques, not developing a smoother transition between the reserve and senior squads, debatable tactical nous, etc. All in all I think MON was sailing against the prevailing wind of change in modern football. If he'd been able to adapt, to incorporate the new with the very good sound old principles and knowledge he had, then he could have been a great manager. But I always got the feeling that he stopped learning a few years ago and was too stubborn and set in his ways to change and so improve.
Spot on.
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Exactly as I see it Dribbler great post
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Whilst MON was good at many things, his flaws and shortcomings were just too costly for the overall structure of a modern premiership club. Overpriced, overpaid players, some of which he then ignored, a seeming reluctance to buy foreign players, not utilising his full squad, not maximising fitness, debatable training techniques, not developing a smoother transition between the reserve and senior squads, debatable tactical nous, etc. All in all I think MON was sailing against the prevailing wind of change in modern football. If he'd been able to adapt, to incorporate the new with the very good sound old principles and knowledge he had, then he could have been a great manager. But I always got the feeling that he stopped learning a few years ago and was too stubborn and set in his ways to change and so improve.
Spot on.
Agreed, excellently summed up, Dribblinho.
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MON was the right man at the time.
However, with his ways/methods, he had taken us as far as he could.
He also never had to deal with the major injuries we have atm, do people think, we would be that much better off this season with him, with the current injuries?
This time next season, with 2 transfer windows under his belt, with GH we will be back up challenging the top 4/6 again.
To those who wish he was still here, he has had more money then any Villa manager in history, dont you think that after 4 years and £120m to spend, when he did leave, should we have been left with a stronger squad then he left us with??