Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: D.boy on November 02, 2010, 02:11:02 PM
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5 mins to half time and Villa 1-0 up thanks to the fonz.
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2 - 0
Carruthers.
Looking increasingly impressive after a big rep coming from Arsenal.
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Carruthers with a header from Albrighton cross 2-0 up.
Great first half by us according to avtv
Line up Guzan, Lichaj, Williams, Lowry, Deeney, Albrighton, Hogg, Salifou, Carruthers, Bannan, Delfouneso.
Subs Parish, Herd, Cameron, Burke
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Commentator sounds like he is stood in a wind tunnel.
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Finished 2-0 to Villa
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Good win!
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All we are saying is give Fonz a chance.
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Why were they they playing now?
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Great result that!
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Why were they they playing now?
Ressies matches, mid-week mid-afternoon, jumpers for goalposts, just like days of yore, isn't it? Marvellous.
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Do they also use rush goalies?
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no but they can all save.
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Good result for us the Fonz scores again.
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Carruthers was AVTV man of the match, scored one and set up one.
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Why on earth did albrighton start this game? He is a really important first teamer.
And what else can Delfouneso do? He keeps scoring in the reserves and not getting a look in?
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It can only be a matter of time before the fonz gets a chance. He is the only forward we have who is scoring on a regular basis (albeit in the reserves) so deserves an opportunity.
On a side note I watched the highlights of the reserves 4-1 win over Manure and Bannan scored a couple of crackers including a direct free kick from outside the box. I wouldn't mind seeing him have a go instead of Ash at some free kicks.
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hasnt martin carruthers been shown the door yet?? It is alright scoring tons of goals in the stiffs but he will never play for the first team! He has been playing for about 15 years aint he??
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Why on earth did albrighton start this game? He is a really important first teamer.
And what else can Delfouneso do? He keeps scoring in the reserves and not getting a look in?
Missed the Chelsea and SHA games so hasn't played that much in recent weeks.
Pretty strong reserve team we put out, probably in comparison to Arsenal. Rare reserve game for Arsenal that.
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If the Fonz can't get a game against a Championship team in the Carling Cup and he see's the manager start the game without a recognised striker then I think he can see he has no future @ the club.................
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If the Fonz can't get a game against a Championship team in the Carling Cup and he see's the manager start the game without a recognised striker then I think he can see he has no future @ the club.................
Which I'm at a loss to understand.
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Same here.
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hasnt martin carruthers been shown the door yet?? It is alright scoring tons of goals in the stiffs but he will never play for the first team! He has been playing for about 15 years aint he??
its Samir caruthers
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I have a sneaking suspicion he knew that. :)
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Why are these games now hidden away on weekday afternoons ?
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Just because Delfouneso can score against opposition in the Reserves (no matter how good or bad they are), does not mean he has the right mental attitude to play in the first team yet. Houllier dropped Ireland to the bench for the same reason. And its interesting that MacDonald did not play him either, even though he's seen how he can play in the reserves. I think, technique and ability apart, he may have a bad attitude, and that is possibly why he can't get near the first team.
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Just because Delfouneso can score against opposition in the Reserves (no matter how good or bad they are), does not mean he has the right mental attitude to play in the first team yet. Houllier dropped Ireland to the bench for the same reason. And its interesting that MacDonald did not play him either, even though he's seen how he can play in the reserves. I think, technique and ability apart, he may have a bad attitude, and that is possibly why he can't get near the first team.
I don't see any evidence of a bad attitude, i've no idea why you think that is the case. As for only scoring goals for the reserves, he's scored in the Prem, Uefa Cup and the Carling Cup.
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I haven't seen any either, just trying to think why he wouldn't be played by MON, MacDonald, or Houllier, despite his clear ability.
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Whenever I've seen Delfouneso I haven't been that impressed. He's the new Darren Byfield.
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hasnt martin carruthers been shown the door yet?? It is alright scoring tons of goals in the stiffs but he will never play for the first team! He has been playing for about 15 years aint he??
Salifou and Osborne will still be turning-out for the stiffs in 2020.
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Whenever I've seen Delfouneso I haven't been that impressed. He's the new Darren Byfield.
Ridiculous.
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Well he's been sitting on the bench not doing much else since you considered him to be the next big thing. I haven't seen anything in him to suggest he's going to have a career in the top two divisions never mind the Prem. Just doesn't look good enough.
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Whenever I've seen Delfouneso I haven't been that impressed. He's the new Darren Byfield.
Ridiculous.
Agreed, just nonsense.
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Whenever I've seen Delfouneso I haven't been that impressed. He's the new Darren Byfield.
Ridiculous.
Agreed, just nonsense.
Really?
I haven't watched our reserves much recently but whenever Delfouneso has appeared in our first team he hasn't particularly impressed me. So unless we go for conspiracy theories about him falling out with Hotlips, or other theories that Hotlips won't pick the youngsters (hardly seems likely with the likes of Bannan, Albrighton and Clark getting plenty of chances), we can only assume Fonz has not impressed in training, and that could easily mean he might not have the attitude required.
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Well he's been sitting on the bench not doing much else since you considered him to be the next big thing. I haven't seen anything in him to suggest he's going to have a career in the top two divisions never mind the Prem. Just doesn't look good enough.
And how would you? Do you watch reserve/academy football? What are you basing your opinion on, a few rare opportunities of first team football (in which he has scored and largely done pretty well).
I dont know why Houllier doesnt fancy him (at the moment), I dont watch them in training but he is not the next Darren Byfield.
We'll see anyway. I'm sticking with my opinion of him until proven otherwise.
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Fonz is a natural goalscorer IMO. I think he will make it big as long as their is nothing wrong between the ears.
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Fonz seems quite bright when we spoke to him at BHX when we were flying to Faro. Just hope he doesn't get his head turned.
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Fonz is a natural goalscorer IMO. I think he will make it big as long as their is nothing wrong between the ears.
Yep. That's what he looks like to me. He's one of these players who won't look the best but will get loads of goals. A bit like Darren Bent.
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Whats with Coops calling Houllier ''Hotlips'' all the time? It doesn't conjure up a very nice image. At all.
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Whats with Coops calling Houllier ''Hotlips'' all the time? It doesn't conjure up a very nice image. At all.
Because it's better than G-Hou or any number of other crap attempts to give Hotlips a proper nickname on here.
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Well he's been sitting on the bench not doing much else since you considered him to be the next big thing. I haven't seen anything in him to suggest he's going to have a career in the top two divisions never mind the Prem. Just doesn't look good enough.
And how would you? Do you watch reserve/academy football? What are you basing your opinion on, a few rare opportunities of first team football (in which he has scored and largely done pretty well).
I dont know why Houllier doesnt fancy him (at the moment), I dont watch them in training but he is not the next Darren Byfield.
We'll see anyway. I'm sticking with my opinion of him until proven otherwise.
No, just the odd snippet here and there and really it doesn't make much difference as to how prolific they are in the reserves its how they translate that in the first team that is the measure of a player.
I agree he's looked bright at times but not first-team Prem standard. He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
He may improve with age but I don't think he'll have a career with us. Like Byfield. I'd expect him to cut it at a lower level, but that's it.
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Whenever I've seen Delfouneso I haven't been that impressed. He's the new Darren Byfield.
Ridiculous.
tHats alright then, I wouldnt mind shagging Byfields other half..
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He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
I couldn't imagine disagreeing with anything more strongly than that sentence and I do wonder how you came to any of those conclusions.
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He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
I couldn't imagine disagreeing with anything more strongly than that sentence and I do wonder how you came to any of those conclusions.
By watching him when he plays.
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i am a huge admirer of delfouneso's ability and whenever i have watched him, at any level, he has shown his progression...
he has slotted into the first team when needed and not looked out of place, albeit, he hasnt really had a run to really showcase his ability...
i am hoping now that with the injury to heskey, that delfouneso gets a bit of a look in and uses that opportunity to force his way into the managers plans...
gareth bale has done exactly that when esso-ekotto (sp?) wasnt available, after bale was considered not good enough and about to be shipped out on loan to a championship club, and now after a few decent games, he is the best player in the world ever ever ever - copyright skumsportsnews...
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Until we throw him in on a more regular basis, we'll never really know if he's going to be good enough, but so far he's not let us down when he's played. Fergie has'nt seemed too worried about throwing Hernandez into the Premiership and he is'nt doing too badly.
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He is only 19 years old. He could easily develop into a great striker in the next couple of years - just because he's not ready now doesn't mean he never will be.
Hernandez to use the above example is three years older and at Nathan's age was barely playing in the Mexican league.
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He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
I couldn't imagine disagreeing with anything more strongly than that sentence and I do wonder how you came to any of those conclusions.
By watching him when he plays.
When, the isolated scraps of first team action he's had?
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He is only 19 years old. He could easily develop into a great striker in the next couple of years - just because he's not ready now doesn't mean he never will be.
Hernandez to use the above example is three years older and at Nathan's age was barely playing in the Mexican league.
excellent point...
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Until we throw him in on a more regular basis, we'll never really know if he's going to be good enough, but so far he's not let us down when he's played. Fergie has'nt seemed too worried about throwing Hernandez into the Premiership and he is'nt doing too badly.
No comparison considering one is an international who played at the World Cup and the other a prospect that has yet to show that he has got what it takes, for me anyway.
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He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
I couldn't imagine disagreeing with anything more strongly than that sentence and I do wonder how you came to any of those conclusions.
By watching him when he plays.
When, the isolated scraps of first team action he's had?
Yes. You don't need to see lots of a player to see what he's got. He's looking further away from the team at the moment as he can't get near the bench/team in a period where Gabby is out says it all.
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From what I’ve seen of The Fonz he looks a good player. He’s got a cracking shot on him, his efforts against Brighton, that class volley against Zilina. He’s quick, has the frame to be strong and has a neat touch.
But he’s only a kid and has a hell of a lot to learn. I’d only play him as a partner off Carew, I don’t think its fair to ask him to lead the line on his own and I’d have him as one for the future with a role coming off the bench.
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Your opinion on him peter seems to be based on the fact he's not currently playing in the first team rather than any remotely accurate appraisal of his skills so we'll leave it there.
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You have to ask the question why our last 3 managers have not given him an opportunity, including Mac who must know him the best?
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You have to ask the question why our last 3 managers have not given him an opportunity, including Mac who must know him the best?
Didn't he even say that he wasn't mentally right to play, or am I imagining that?
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You have to ask the question why our last 3 managers have not given him an opportunity, including Mac who must know him the best?
He was progressing nicely under MON, why Kevin Mac and GH have ignored him is a question only they can answer.
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Your opinion on him peter seems to be based on the fact he's not currently playing in the first team rather than any remotely accurate appraisal of his skills so we'll leave it there.
Its based on what I've seen of him both on television and in the flesh. Based on that I don't think he's good enough.
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Your opinion on him peter seems to be based on the fact he's not currently playing in the first team rather than any remotely accurate appraisal of his skills so we'll leave it there.
Its based on what I've seen of him both on television and in the flesh. Based on that I don't think he's good enough.
And how about in the future? Do you not think he's got the capability of getting better?
How many strikers are at their best when they are 19 years old? At Delfouneso's age Didier Drogba was having his first ever season at Levallois in the fourth tier of French football.
Clearly because he wasn't breaking into the first team at a top six side at that age there was no point him bothering.
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Your opinion on him peter seems to be based on the fact he's not currently playing in the first team rather than any remotely accurate appraisal of his skills so we'll leave it there.
Its based on what I've seen of him both on television and in the flesh. Based on that I don't think he's good enough.
And how about in the future? Do you not think he's got the capability of getting better?
How many strikers are at their best when they are 19 years old? At Delfouneso's age Didier Drogba was having his first ever season at Levallois in the fourth tier of French football.
Clearly because he wasn't breaking into the first team at a top six side at that age there was no point him bothering.
Well he is a regular for the England U21's so Stuart Pearce/Fabio must rate him and if he goes their wil be no shortage of takers anyway if we keep playing 4 5 1 we wont need him
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Some players peak early, some late. I'm not sure it's as simple as every player gets better as he matures. Take Owen as an example, was never as good as when he was at Liverpool, regardless of injuries. Messi was unlucky not to start the Champions League final at the age of 18. Some players have it early, some late. I think it's very rare that a player can maintain playing at the highest level for their entire career. So i'll happily give the fonz more time before i make any verdict on his ability.
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He makes the wrong choices too many times, doesn't look like he possesses a good enough shot and doesn't use that option early enough, still looks lightweight, and looks a yard or two of the game.
I couldn't imagine disagreeing with anything more strongly than that sentence and I do wonder how you came to any of those conclusions.
By watching him when he plays.
When, the isolated scraps of first team action he's had?
Which will probably give him just as good an insight as watching him in a few dozen reserve games.
Come on Maz, I know you are a great believer in our yoof, and so am I, but Delfouneso hasn't done anything in his first team appearances (apart from maybe a couple of decent UEFA cup games) to show he's the future of our strikeforce. And it seems Hotlips agrees. Maybe Heskey's injury will give him the chance to prove me wrong.
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Which will probably give him just as good an insight as watching him in a few dozen reserve games.
Come on Maz, I know you are a great believer in our yoof, and so am I, but Delfouneso hasn't done anything in his first team appearances (apart from maybe a couple of decent UEFA cup games) to show he's the future of our strikeforce. And it seems Hotlips agrees. Maybe Heskey's injury will give him the chance to prove me wrong.
Apart from score goals... Not that many on paper if you see appearance stats but when you consider how many are really short sub appearances his record more than speaks for itself. For me has that knack of scoring and if he can keep that up and work hard then he will be more than good enough at premier league level.
He is also as has been off stated just 19... Far, far too early to write him off as some seem to be doing. If he hasn't progressed in 3, 4, 5 years time then yes but now is just daft.
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His record at all levels is excellent. Club and international. Although he is yet to be played consistently in the first team at Villa, true.
Whatever makes people believe he wont make it, its not based on his ability. I cant accept that argument anyway, sorry.
I am a believer in youth but not blind. There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind yet. I dont know why he isnt being used more but whatever the reason, I think he's capable and ready.
If he doesnt make it, its not because he isnt good enough and I've seen nothing to suggest a bad attitude.
He's quick, tall, increasingly powerful, clever, enigmatic, brings others in, holds it up and is a natural finisher. He's also very, very young.
I find the notion of writing him off already as a complete joke to be honest.
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I don't know if he'll make it, I was initially impressed, but in games over the summer I thought he was crap for us.
This could be nothing more than a bad bit of form or lacking confidence though.
I think people are reading too much into GH 'deciding he's not good enough'. We play one striker. It's a lot to ask a 19 yr old with less than 5 starts to play the lone striker role and become the focal point for the team.
I certainly haven't given up on him. I've seen flashes of real class, but also occasions where he looks very lost, disinterested, and where his touch and awareness has been much worse than others' comments would have led me to believe.
But he's still a better footballer than Gabby was at that age. Gabby was clueless, with poor movement and touch, but just very very fast.
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There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso.
And the others you have championed who have since fell away? I'm not going to trawl back through the archives, but we've all championed our yoofs, it's what we do, we love our local lads!
If you name every promising youngster you are bound to get a few hits!
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There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso.
And the others you have championed who have since fell away? I'm not going to trawl back through the archives, but we've all championed our yoofs, it's what we do, we love our local lads!
If you name every promising youngster you are bound to get a few hits!
Cheers Dave. Trawl away.
And I haven't done anything like name every promising youngster.
I've never claimed to get everything right or to be some sort of prophet, but those players I mentioned I am still consistent with in terms of my opinion of them. This batch of players in particular, of the last 4 or 5 years say, I am most familiar with. Therefore I feel more inclined to predict.
This is all getting a bit tedious now. There is only one way of telling who will be right regarding Delfouneso. Time. And nothing but.
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Gabby at his age was going nowhere fast on-loan at Watford (and/or Sheff Wed?), plenty of time for Fonz to form one part of super duo Delf & Delph.
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I think that the Fonz hasn't really been given a regular opportunity to settle at first team level. He plays part of the odd game and then he doesn't appear for a few months. Would like to see him get more regular opportunities to build his level of play. I, like Maz, think he's got it.
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I used to get hell's stick for saying Stephen Cooke wouldn't make the grade, everybody used to rave about him.
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His record at all levels is excellent. Club and international. Although he is yet to be played consistently in the first team at Villa, true.
Whatever makes people believe he wont make it, its not based on his ability. I cant accept that argument anyway, sorry.
I am a believer in youth but not blind. There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind yet. I dont know why he isnt being used more but whatever the reason, I think he's capable and ready.
If he doesnt make it, its not because he isnt good enough and I've seen nothing to suggest a bad attitude.
He's quick, tall, increasingly powerful, clever, enigmatic, brings others in, holds it up and is a natural finisher. He's also very, very young.
I find the notion of writing him off already as a complete joke to be honest.
sums up my thoughts on the kid...
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Gabby at his age was going nowhere fast on-loan at Watford (and/or Sheff Wed?), plenty of time for Fonz to form one part of super duo Delf & Delph.
i remember watford and sheff weds fans thinking that gabby was a huge bag of shite and that he was nothing other than a sprinter wearing football boots...
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I used to get hell's stick for saying Stephen Cooke wouldn't make the grade, everybody used to rave about him.
I did the same with John McGrath, but in my defence he was excellent at Tamworth!
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I was convinced Scimeca would captain England.
I also remember Gareth Barry coming through when he played as part of a back three. He was only 17 and different gravy - a class above any other youngster I have seen.
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I agree with Maz on this...get behind the lad and he may come good in a time of need...dont rubbish him before he's had a real chance to show what he's made of.
And I would rather have home grown talent than a here today gone tomorrow jonnie
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His record at all levels is excellent. Club and international. Although he is yet to be played consistently in the first team at Villa, true.
Whatever makes people believe he wont make it, its not based on his ability. I cant accept that argument anyway, sorry.
I am a believer in youth but not blind. There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind yet. I dont know why he isnt being used more but whatever the reason, I think he's capable and ready.
If he doesnt make it, its not because he isnt good enough and I've seen nothing to suggest a bad attitude.
He's quick, tall, increasingly powerful, clever, enigmatic, brings others in, holds it up and is a natural finisher. He's also very, very young.
I find the notion of writing him off already as a complete joke to be honest.
of those f Maz do you think they will all establish themselves in the first x1, i have not seen Gardener at all
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Not an easy game for him yesterday up front on his own.
But it seemed his confidence was low-particularly that chance in the 2nd half.
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Not an easy game for him yesterday up front on his own.
But it seemed his confidence was low-particularly that chance in the 2nd half.
He should have burried at least one of those headers but I'm hoping he'll take the chance he's going to have over the next couple of weeks
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Surely GH is giving them a run for one simple reason, experience !
Promising debuts/early form don't always = great careers and poor debuts/form don't = bad careers.
I agree with Mazrim that Delfonsou has great qualities but he's still learning his trade and adjusting to the premier league. Whether we have great hopes for a youngster or not, nobody really knows how they're going to develop until they have that experience under their belt. The most fashionable examples of that would be Gareth Bale and Andy Carroll, neither of which were highly rated by even their own fans a year or 2 ago
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Young kids suffer from indifferent form. For that reason I think it's a good idea to reserve judgement on Delfoneso. Based on the game on the weekend, he's way off making the grade. Let's hope that was an anomaly in a long and illustrious Villa career.
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I think Delfouneso was outshone yesterday by the three other 'youngsters'.
I'll give me more time to see what he can do in the first team. I hope he can make the grade as I've enjoyed watching him in the reserves. Time will tell.
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I don't see the kid making it in the PL just now. However whilst he is not another Brian Little, Gary Shaw or Andy Gray he may develop and get better given time. He has the next two games to light up Villa park if he can...
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What concerned me even more than his awful attempts at goal - and yes, regardless of his age and experience, they were awful - was the look on his face. Especially in the last 15 minutes he looked shell-shocked. He doesn't have that arrogant cock-sure swagger that top flight strikers seem to have. His eyes weren't saying 'so what if i missed that one, i'll score a hat-trick in the last 5 mins', they were searching the horizon for some vision of a premiership future and weren't seeing one.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love this lad to be the next Drogba, I'd love to see him be the highest goal-scorer of all time. But i'm pretty sure he won't get anywhere near it.
If you'd heard, let's say, Everton fans, banging on about the next big thing and he put in a show like Fonz at Fulham, would we be talking about how we'd love to sign him up? No.
I'm sorry to say that I just don't see him making it.
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I've watched Nathan for possibly the last 3 seasons and one of the
criticisms I have is that he doesn't get his head up and see other
players in possibly better positions.
As a striker this isn't necessarily a bad thing and he can finish -
whether it's good enough for the Premier or lower leagues is
still to become apparent.
As for yesterday against Fulham - yes he could and should of
scored a hat-trick but didn't, but it wasn't for the lack of trying
and let's give the lad credit for getting into those positions.
He played a loan striker role, and let's be honest didn't get
much suport from Young7 & Downing who are more senior players.
Obviously he needs the boost of a goal for the 1st team and I hope
and pray it will come against Blackpool, because three days later
he could be facing two experienced centre backs from that club up the M6
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All it takes is a goal though fellas. Id say he couldnt believe the first didnt go in, he put it less than a foot wide, the next one hit the top of the crossbar and went over. Keep the faith - I thought his hold up play in the first half was pretty decent but he lost a bit of belief in the second half. I still think he is a natural forward. Heskey would never have got in those positions yesterday and if he did would I have been any more confident in him scoring - no.
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His record at all levels is excellent. Club and international. Although he is yet to be played consistently in the first team at Villa, true.
Whatever makes people believe he wont make it, its not based on his ability. I cant accept that argument anyway, sorry.
I am a believer in youth but not blind. There are four players I have championed for some time. Clark, Albrighton, Gardner and Delfouneso. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind yet. I dont know why he isnt being used more but whatever the reason, I think he's capable and ready.
If he doesnt make it, its not because he isnt good enough and I've seen nothing to suggest a bad attitude.
He's quick, tall, increasingly powerful, clever, enigmatic, brings others in, holds it up and is a natural finisher. He's also very, very young.
I find the notion of writing him off already as a complete joke to be honest.
of those f Maz do you think they will all establish themselves in the first x1, i have not seen Gardener at all
I do. And a few others have a better than decent chance. That's not even including Delph.
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as i wrote in the match thread, yes, delfouneso was nowhere near his premium against fulham, but he showed signs of what he can do, in what is an unfamiliar role to him, playing up top on his own... he is not, nor is he ever going to be, a lone striker... its a shame that the chance he gets is trying to perform that role... i thought he did reasonably well considering... and at 19, he has time to grow into different roles, and being thrown into the deep end will help his development and give him experience of a different role to what he is used to... (for the record, he is the classic number 10 striker, if ever i saw one)... have to say though, his hold up play at one point where he used his quick feet, rather than bulk, was superb, and while his overall performance was not fantastico, he certainly showed promise and got into some good positions for his chances... (and again, for the record, his heading, is certainly not his strongest area of shooting, as he will readily admit himself)... so i am enthused, without going overboard over his performance, he was certainly a plus point for me from the game, as he got into good positions, worked hard, had chances etc... and that was without being anywhere near as good as he can be, and in an unfamiliar role that doesnt suit his natural game...
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To write a 19 year old off after 1 start is as ridiculous as claiming a 20 year old is the new Milner etc after a couple of games.
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To write a 19 year old off after 1 start is as ridiculous as claiming a 20 year old is the new Milner etc after a couple of games.
What was that F word we were described as by an ex-manager again?
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fannies?
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I thought he did all right on Saturday. He held the ball up a lot better than I have seen before and I thought in that respect he did look the part. This isn't a judgement about performances because great players can have a bad day, and average (comparatively) players can have days of being top quality. So, form isn't a good indicator of a players talent.
A couple of things stood out negatively though both in the second-half. The first was teh shot when he had acres of room between Hangeland and Hughes. Not only did he not get the ball under control to have a free run at goal, but he never looked comfortable enough to have the ball and have the hunger and belief to go through and bury the chance.
The other chance was more worrying for me. When Downing put the ball across teh face of the goal it only took a split second but Delfouneso hadn't gambled, or used a natural instinct to burst forward and be in the right place at the right time. He was waiting to see what happened and where the ball was going and in that split second he actually cost us what would probably have been a second goal.
That isn't a lack of ability but a lack of belief. Delfouneso could, and probably shoul, have walked away with 3 goals on Saturday but only forced the keeper into one save, and that was a weak effort when he could have scored as the first example above highlights.
But, encouragingly he did look the part despite not scoring and that should give him more belief that he belongs in that company. He held up the ball well against Hangeland and did use it well at times. he tried to link up with Ash and at times it did work well. I think Pauline is right when she says that he was overshone by Bannan, Clark, and Albrighton (who, to be fair, was more involved than Delfouneso, scored a great goal, but also wasted a great chance and conceded a stupid free-kick that lead to the goal, but by no means played better than Delfouneso in terms of overall contribution).
I'm still not saying he'll make it but on that performance he has a shout. Needs to do the same on Wednesday though, and score when he gets a good opportunity, because for all our periods of scoring 0, or 1 on Sat, we have had plenty of chances to score 3 or 4 in each game.
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He needs encouragement and to start a few games.
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Yep. Not only was it his first PL start, it was also a pretty rare first team outing for him this season; he hasn't had much of a look-in and that came back to bite us - and him. With a bit more action under his belt before the Fulham game, I bet he'd have snapped one of those chances up.
I thought he did okay, all things considered. Should have probably scored with both the headers, but if we keep creating chances like that, he'll be fine.
It was actually nice to see one of our strikers on the end of some chances....
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i agree with most things Mazrim says, and i agree on this point as well.
I think Fonz will make it, he has a good touch, reasonable pace, and a good finish.On another day he could have scored a hattrick.I think he will turn out to be a bigger player for us than nGabby, and i really rate Gabby.
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In fairness the Fonz has in the last 18 months has had a decent scoring record when he's started games in the europa and FA cup.
However on saturday he seemed to me to lack belief. Take that chance he had in the second half when he was completely unmarked 30 yards from goal, he hestitated and never looked like he thought he could scored and hit a tame shot at Schrwarzer.
I'm less confident he'll make it than I was 6 months ago.
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I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think he'll make it at the top level.
The Championship, yes - Prem, no.
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In fairness our youth system has flattered to deceive in the last 5 years with only gabby produced as anywhere near top 6 quality imo. Although you could agrue with jusification thaty Gardner and Cahill should've been given more chances although neither now would improve us that much currently.
However this current crop is exciting me. Jury is out on Fonz but Albrighton has been a major plus in his sink or swim season, I'm a big fan of Clark who aside from a shocker at Newcastle, has performed well in all the other games I've seen him in and Bannan has been a big surprise to me as I didn't think he'd make the impact he has in the position he's playing.
And we have Gary Gardner to come back in the new year who by all accounts is a fantastic prospect.
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I thought the Fonz did well on saturday. He should have done better with his 2 headed chances but he led the line well. His movement has always been better than Gabby's and with time he'll come good.
He needs to be stronger but he is still young and that will come.
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Think he done ok. But clearly lacking belief. One early goal could change all that. He has pace and experience, can definitely make an impact .......
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The Fonz showed everything but clinical finishing. I would be worried if I thought this was something he doesn't have in his locker but he absolutely does so I'm not.
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Come on Fonz - tonight's your night!
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Do it for Mr Cunningham. R.I.P
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Tonight is the night for Nathan. I hope he plays Ireland behind him and rests Young for Man Utd.
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Did well tonight. Not great but well.
Don't know if we'll see him against Man Yoo or if Gabby will get a start.
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Did well tonight. Not great but well.
Don't know if we'll see him against Man Yoo or if Gabby will get a start.
My take on it as well. Very well taken goal, fair play to him, but again, he just can't seem to compete in the air at all, even if it's a free header. Positioning is also a concern. It may come with time, so I'm not writing him off....
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He can compete in the air. It's not his number one asset but he can. He scored from a header after all except that twat ref disagreed.
He did well tonight. Give him time, he will be one hell of a player.
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Did well tonight. Not great but well.
Don't know if we'll see him against Man Yoo or if Gabby will get a start.
To be fair, he did a lot better than Gabby who was anonymous and looked way off the pace.
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Took his goal well tonight, but other than that, i thought he loped around looking uninvolved.
If he scores, he can lope around as much as he likes, but more often than not, he won't score.
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Jesus Christ, he's just come back from injury and probably a bit early too. Give him a chance.
When Gabby is fully fit, I'd like to see him play alongside Fonz. I've been looking forward to that prospect for some time.
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Did well tonight. Not great but well.
Don't know if we'll see him against Man Yoo or if Gabby will get a start.
To be fair, he did a lot better than Gabby who was anonymous and looked way off the pace.
Yeah, the bastard!
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Jesus Christ, he's just come back from injury and probably a bit early too. Give him a chance.
When Gabby is fully fit, I'd like to see him play alongside Fonz. I've been looking forward to that prospect for some time.
I like this idea very much
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I thought it was a strange decision by GH to bring him off when he did. He'd just scored a well taken goal and had a perfectly good one disallowed.
Pleased for him though, let's hope he carries on with his scoring form on Saturday.
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Jesus Christ, he's just come back from injury and probably a bit early too. Give him a chance.
When Gabby is fully fit, I'd like to see him play alongside Fonz. I've been looking forward to that prospect for some time.
I like this idea very much
So do I, but it seems unlikely as we're playing 4-5-1.
I'd probably start with Gabby against a team like Man U due to his better all round contribution and then look to bring the Fonz, on with a change to 4-4-2, if/when we need the goal to win it.
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I thought it was a strange decision by GH to bring him off when he did. He'd just scored a well taken goal and had a perfectly good one disallowed.
Pleased for him though, let's hope he carries on with his scoring form on Saturday.
I think it was a case of wanting Gabby to have 25 minutes so he was coming on regardless, he was getting stripped off even before the goal.
Nathan just seems to have the goal scoring knack, that's 7 he's got now and he's only started 9 games.
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that's 7 he's got now and he's only started 9 games.
That is a VERY impressive record for a any striker, let alone an emerging youth player.
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Yes and all the more bizarre why some people are tripping over themselves to write him off. 19 years old!
It just fucks with my mind.
As for your point John, I think we should be flexible and not abandon 4-4-2 by proxy, but saying that, I think Fonz can play the link role behind Gabby.
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We need to have patience with the Fonz for a while. Give him time to learn his craft,and by his mistakes.
I remember seeing Carroll a couple of times when he first played in the prem for Newcastle and thought he was Blues.
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Thats funny i typed in dog s##t and it got edited to blues!
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As for your point John, I think we should be flexible and not abandon 4-4-2 by proxy, but saying that, I think Fonz can play the link role behind Gabby.
Agreed.
MON had a fault in not using 4-5-1 enough in his latter days, but I don't want to see that reversed with Houllier never using it. Rotation of players is great, but we also need to be able to mix up the formation to keep things fresh and allow tactical options.
However, I don't see the Fonz in that 'link' role. Although it may develop further, I don't think his all round game is good enough for that. For me he's more of a 'shoulder of the last defender' type, similar to a young Lineker or Owen.
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I disagree with the last sentence. His awareness, pace and touch would be very useful in the link role. Obviously I would prefer him in the role you suggest as he is first and formost, a striker with pace and finishing. But there's no doubt I think he could drop deep and play the link role as a more direct option,
I would prefer a specialist there though ideally. Just thinking of ways to play Gabby and Fonz together and playing other formations to 4-4-2 doesnt mean they couldn't.
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I've always thought that Fonz and Gabby would make a good combination.Fonz touch, and Gabbys pace would be a very good combination.
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Jesus Christ, he's just come back from injury and probably a bit early too. Give him a chance.
When Gabby is fully fit, I'd like to see him play alongside Fonz. I've been looking forward to that prospect for some time.
me too... i think delfouneso's movement will really benefit gabby, and gabbys hold up play and little lay offs will really benefit delfouneso...
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We don't play 4-5-1, we play 4-4-1-1 as Young/Ireland give us nothing defensively, so I don't see a problem playing Fonz up with Gabby if needed.
I could imagine at half time GH saying "we need more off you Nathan", and 2nd half he scored, had a goal disallowed, and a decent shout for a pen, and then he gets taken off, strange decision, even though I understand Gabby needed some time on the pitch.
Ashley looked like he had a bit of a strop when Ireland told him to go and play out wide, as he was having a great game playing off the front man.
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Just thinking of ways to play Gabby and Fonz together and playing other formations to 4-4-2 doesnt mean they couldn't.
Where they to play together in a 4-4-2 I'd like to see Gabby running the channels and stretching the opposition defence, with Nathan staying central to use his superior finishing to take advantage of that.
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However, I don't see the Fonz in that 'link' role. Although it may develop further, I don't think his all round game is good enough for that. For me he's more of a 'shoulder of the last defender' type, similar to a young Lineker or Owen.
that is exactly his role... he likes to drop deep and pick up the ball, run with it, pull out to the wide areas, etc... i dont think he is a linekar owen, poacher type, although he does like to get into the box...
what i like about him, is that he does have a lot to his game, but most importantly, and it hasnt been shown while he has played the lone role in the past couple of games, is his intelligent movement that makes him unpredictable... he could be deep, he could be out on the wing, he could be in the box, he could be anywhere...
coupled with the pace, strength, hold up play and lay offs from agbonlahor, its an interesting potential partnership...
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- They're both very, very quick, Gabby slightly more so at full stretch although Fonz is probably quicker over short distances, more explosive, believe it or not.
- Gabby is very strong, I think Fonz will be.
- Fonz is tall enough to be presence in the air.
- Gabby is direct but can also hold it up well and rarely gives the ball away. Fonz can be direct but can also link up well and has more understanding and sharpness of thought.
- They're both local lads with club in their hearts.
- They're both very young with ages ahead of them.
I think they can form a really promising partnership and could compliment each other. They can also cover for eachother in the squad. I think add a bruising forward to replace Carew and eventually Heskey and a silky creative striker as a different option, plus Weimann when he comes back who is also very very promising and we'll be well set up front.
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Nice goal from the Fonz last night and it should have been two. For the allowed goal there were several things that stood out, he was offside and moved back onside when he saw Ash on the ball, his first touch was excellent and made the space to run in to to get away from the defenders and his finish was composed. The goal last night will give him some confidence and hopefully he will get a few more for us in the next few games. Definitely an exciting prospect.
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For anybody who may not have watched Fonz much in recent years, that goal was absolutely typical of him. He will also suprise people with how much of an all round talent he is if he gets the chance for a sustained run of games, which I hope will happen.
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We don't play 4-5-1, we play 4-4-1-1 as Young/Ireland give us nothing defensively, so I don't see a problem playing Fonz up with Gabby if needed.
I could imagine at half time GH saying "we need more off you Nathan", and 2nd half he scored, had a goal disallowed, and a decent shout for a pen, and then he gets taken off, strange decision, even though I understand Gabby needed some time on the pitch.
Ashley looked like he had a bit of a strop when Ireland told him to go and play out wide, as he was having a great game playing off the front man.
Except the problem with playing Ash off the front man is that he does not score any goals. How many has he scored in PL games this season from that position?
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Except the problem with playing Ash off the front man is that he does not score any goals. How many has he scored in PL games this season from that position?
I'm with you on that one, he does need to be getting 12-15 goals if he's going to play that position, which is why I'd consider playing Fonz up with Gabby, as you could always drop Nathan a bit deeper, but then you have to have one of Downing, Young or Albrighton on the bench.
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I'd consider playing Fonz up with Gabby, as you could always drop Nathan a bit deeper, but then you have to have one of Downing, Young or Albrighton on the bench.
That is a problem as although Ash isn't scoring many as you mention, all three are in good form and their interchanging of positions gives a good fluidity to our attack.
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Blimey, a selection headache, Houllier's not had many of those.
You could play Downing in the centre but then we'd struggle without the ball, and Bannan deserves to keep his place. I feel sorry for Bannan that he gets his chance when Petrov and NRC aren't there to help him out.
The way Houllier took the Fonz off suggests to me he is still not convinced by him, and at 19 he still has a long way to go to hold down a place week in week out, talented as he is.
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He's not quick enough or strong enough for me and needs greater awareness.
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what do you want, road runner?
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I feel sorry for Bannan that he gets his chance when Petrov and NRC aren't there to help him out.
You say that, but I think he's doing well enough without them so far!
Back to the Fonz, I do think he's not quite there yet and needs to develop further. The question really is should we be letting him do that development in our first team? Not much choice right now, but once Gabby is fully back we can rotate him in and out and basically let him mature at a more natural pace.
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what do you want, road runner?
Too easy to defend against if you use the 'ACME Rocket' formation.
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Took his goal very well. Almost Torres-like. In keeping with the few run-outs he's had with the first team, he doesn't look like he's doing much and then he crops up with a goal.
Useful habit to have. You can either get concerned with the former or be happy with the latter. For the moment I'll opt for the latter and trust Maz that there is more re: his allround game to come.
I do think he suffers from the fact that he's been in and around the first team now for two years, since the age of 17 (!) There is a tendency for some to think if he's been involved but hasn't made a starting place his own he's not up to it.
I think by the age of 21/22 we'll have a far better idea of that. He's still only a baby at present, he might benefit from a loan stint out at a Championship side against defenders who will be only to happy to rough him up. Rather than the testimonial pace of most reserve matches.
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I thought it was a strange decision by GH to bring him off when he did. He'd just scored a well taken goal and had a perfectly good one disallowed.
I said exactly the same thing to my mate last night. It took him a while to get into the game, and when he did, he was taken off. He did'nt put himselff about enough in the first half, but he was much better in the second. His goal is the type of one Gabby would have missed last season, he stuck it away well.
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Probably being saved for Sat. Also gave Gabby a good run out to help his fitness for Sat.
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He's not quick enough or strong enough for me and needs greater awareness.
Delfouneso isnt quick enough?
Do you know what mate, I dont recall reading anything by you that I've ever agreed with. Its quite amazing.
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Well I thought that the type of goal he scored last night, was a cut above many of the things we have seen from our strikers at Villa Park over the last ten years at least. The awareness to come back onside, receive the ball and turn in one movement and then to run through the defense and finish clinically is not something we've really had since Yorke in our strikers. It is the type of goal that you see many of the real top class strikers do reglarly. That's not to say it means he's the second coming of Henry, but it is at least one piece of evidence that he might be capable of becoming the player we all hope he can be...
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Yes, the timing of the run was excellent; I can imagine a couple of our more senior strikers getting that wrong and straying offside. Good finish, too - stayed composed despite the defender sliding in and tucked it away nicely. Thought he was unlucky with the header, didn't do much wrong there and just got above the defender. Not much contact.
In his two starting games, Nathan has looked bright and sharp and that goal will have done him lots of good. As Chris S said, his goals to games ratio at senior level is superb.
I think GH did the right thing in making the sub, which as much about giving Gabby a decent run as preserving the Fonz. Feel happier now that Gabby has got a bit of action under his belt before Man U - I'd still start with Fonz v Utd and have Gabby as a second half sub option.
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In his two starting games, Nathan has looked bright and sharp and that goal will have done him lots of good. As Chris S said, his goals to games ratio at senior level is superb.
it is at every level he has played at, both for club and country...
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We finally ahve a player cvomign through the ranks who will be a superstar. This kid will score 20 goals a season for us, no doubt about it.
That goal alst night was as many have said, Torres like. In 20 second half mins he scored two and should have ahd a penalty and he is only 19.
7 goals in 9 starts with some of those at Europa League level.
I onloy hope the idots who are on his back either shut the fuck up or go an crawl under s stone!
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Nathan is a real prospect. I feel he needs to put more pressure on the defenders, though. He does not chase the ball enough defensively, but his instincts are excellent and I think he has a chance to be very, very good.
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Delfouneso doesn't look like he's got much pace at all.
Good finish for the goal and the header, but other chances when the ball went across the face he wasn't as sharp as I expected.
Maybe that's just match practice at this level.
I'd still prefer GH to bring in a good quality striker to lead our line.
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I was disappointed he didn't get a run of games with Emile. It would appear that his favoured position is to play off a main striker and as we all know, the one asset every knowledgeable person says about Emile is how he brings people into the game, be it Owen, Rooney etc.
Who knows, they maybe could replicate the Liverpool duo for GH!!
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Delfouneso doesn't look like he's got much pace at all.
Good finish for the goal and the header, but other chances when the ball went across the face he wasn't as sharp as I expected.
Maybe that's just match practice at this level.
I'd still prefer GH to bring in a good quality striker to lead our line.
Agree with this. I was lead to believe he was very pacy, but he seemed to be caught on his heels a few times last night when people tried to release him. Whether that was because as PTV said he isnt quite up to speed with match practice at this level or whether it was a lack of awareness i don't know. Glad to see him get the goal, to be fair Ash did lay it on a plate for him and though he did take it well, i'd have been fuming if he had missed.
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He took his goals very well indeed last night and I'm pleased for him, but he did not show great pace in the last 2 games at all, twice he turned back inside a defender rather than back himself to head for goal and get a shot away and twice he was sluggish and didn't get on the end of crosses he should have done.
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He most certainly has bags of pace and he even showed that to score last night, even though it was a few yards, that was all he needed. He also showed pace on numerous occasions against Fulham and definitely last season in a few cameos. When he came on against Palace for instance and rocketed down the right as soon as he came on.
He might lack a bit of sharpness from inexperience but pace? No way.
Its one of the things he is noted for. Its not in peoples imaginations.
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I did think he lacked a little sharpness last night a few times, but this was an awareness/alertness issue and nothing to do with how fast he can run.
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The fonz has pace and will be a cracking striker, he just needed that goal to give him confidence (there was nothing wrong with the header either). I have faith in him and look forward to watching him develop.
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In Gh's criticism of Carew, he referred to statistics...which is why I hold a glimmer of hope that he'll give the Fonz an extended run...surely his goal per min ratio is as good as anyone's at the club.
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Nathan looked as though the world was off his shoulders when he scored, he looked really relieved, so hopefully he will still get a chance.
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Delfouneso doesn't look like he's got much pace at all.
Good finish for the goal and the header, but other chances when the ball went across the face he wasn't as sharp as I expected.
Maybe that's just match practice at this level.
match sharpness is different to pace..
he will only get match sharp by playing games...
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Delfouneso has definatley got pace, we have all seen this in previous games he has played, he was just slow at reacting last night which is probably match sharpness.
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Nathan looked as though the world was off his shoulders when he scored, he looked really relieved, so hopefully he will still get a chance.
I don't quite agree, I think the pressure lifted when he 'scored' the header, I said in the match thread he looked a different player after that, you could see the confidence come back and his goal was all about that confidence, very good finish and truly excellent timing to his run. None of our other strikers would've scored that in my opinion.
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Nathan looked as though the world was off his shoulders when he scored, he looked really relieved, so hopefully he will still get a chance.
I don't quite agree, I think the pressure lifted when he 'scored' the header, I said in the match thread he looked a different player after that, you could see the confidence come back and his goal was all about that confidence, very good finish and truly excellent timing to his run. None of our other strikers would've scored that in my opinion.
True, Just before he scored we starting singing for Gabby and I thought that could knock his confidence, but he scored literally straight away. I would have gone 442 with gabby instead of taking him straight off.
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Delfouneso has definatley got pace, we have all seen this in previous games he has played, he was just slow at reacting last night which is probably match sharpness.
He didn't seem very pacey to me, but TBF it's all still a bit new to him and he'll need time to get some match experience.
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I wonder if The Fonz will be much use if we go down.
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I think we may keep him on, but I still don't see him being a regular. In all honesty, he's probably gonna end up in League 1 or 2. (Not with us hopefully!).
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I think we may keep him on, but I still don't see him being a regular. In all honesty, he's probably gonna end up in League 1 or 2. (Not with us hopefully!).
I'm glad you added the bit in brackets but you never know!
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My view is for whatever reason Fonzy fell out of love with the club, he was going great at the start a bit like Marc Albrighton then it all went wrong. He's definitely got the talent for the premier league but needed to play regularly and needed to toughen up, from what I've seen he's done that at Blackpool and I'd like to see him given another chance in the Summer especially as we may lose a couple of forwards and not have the money for replacements.
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I think part of Fonzies problem has been his work ethic. From when he broke through at 17 or whatever, to now at 22, he's not really improved a lot. He's not really had a run for us, fair enough, but you'd still expect him to really develop a bit more, particularly his awareness on the pitch. He's got plenty of natural ability. That's not the be all and end all.
Again it goes back to the Gabby and Moore's comparison. Gabby didn't have the talent that Stefan and especially Luke had, but he's worked incredibly hard on his game over the years. He's been a regular in our side for 6-7 years now. Stefan disappeared. Luke's clawed back some sort of EPL career, though I suspect when his contract is up at Swansea, he'll be in the Championship at best.
Fonz probably will get another chance here though. He's got to really work his bollocks off.
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Fonz can work as hard as he wants, he still will not be good enough at this level just like many others we have had hopes for. It just seems to be the way football works, some players with brilliant potential just don't end up making it where others do. Some players lack the attitude, others just end up at a young age as good as they are ever going to be.
I won't mention names but I know a few footballers. My best mate at school was a phenomenal talent and at 16 was playing for a prem club, top scorer every season in the youth leagues, a really nice and switched on lad. At 18 he was dropped from this club and is now working as a manager in a phone shop. I spoke to another footballer who I know very well who was in the youth team with him and had a spell at West Ham although is now in league 1. I spoke to this player about my school mate and he said he was the best player he had ever played with by far and he had played with the likes of Lampard, Joe Cole ect.
Morale of the story? Regardless of what happens, most going players despite having spells in the first team just don't make it because they lack the ability to make the step up. This is the case for the Fonz, Weimann has shown the contrast between a player who is going to make it and a player who isn't.
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I liked Fonz. He does seem to be one of these players who needs a run in a team though. I'd have him on our bench over Bowery at the moment.
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I liked Fonz. He does seem to be one of these players who needs a run in a team though. I'd have him on our bench over Bowery at the moment.
Fonz is a confidence player - a run of games and goals can transform him but his head tends to drop when things go wrong - he has ability , i certainly think in the championship he would be a potent weapon.
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We have one of the best academies in the country, we bring players through the club from kids to within grasp of the first team. The coaching is first class, with young players being some of the best in the country. The BIG problem we have, is when winning becomes the most important thing the players aren't coached well enough at first team level.
Pretty much the same coaches have been in place at the academy for a good long while, there is continuity. At first team level we've changed our manager and coaches too often. There is no continuity. Winning is too important, so important that we're not able to have the same approach at first team level. At first team level we can barely retain possession of the football for more than 10 seconds after WE have a throw in!
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He has shown some great technical ability and pace when he's been in the team, he needs to have the mental attributes to match. He's never had a run in the team so probably always feels immense pressure to perform when he gets the odd chance causing him to try too hard.
I'd like him to have in the team next year before we right him off completely.
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I liked Fonz. He does seem to be one of these players who needs a run in a team though. I'd have him on our bench over Bowery at the moment.
Bowery is going to be better than Fonz ever was or ever will be. Why? Attitude!
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Can't see Bowery ever amounting to much.
Fonz was awful against Everton, I still maintain that still stands out as the most bonkers player selection of the season as he was picked ahead of Weimann. He barely had a kick and think he was sent out on to Blackpool straight afterwards.
Think it's best if he moves on tbh.
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Can't see Bowery ever amounting to much.
Fonz was awful against Everton, I still maintain that still stands out as the most bonkers player selection of the season as he was picked ahead of Weimann. He barely had a kick and think he was sent out on to Blackpool straight afterwards.
Think it's best if he moves on tbh.
absolutely - said so for a while. Shame but there you go.
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Good grief, he is not even good enough to figure for Blackpool in the Championship, he is just used as a sub, he is finished at Villa (even if we are in the Championship next season)... full stop!
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He's never done much on loan really, think he scored in 1 game for Burnley in 12 appearences and same at Leicester.
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He's done alright at Blackpool, seven goals and a few assists. Young Ince seems to enjoy playing with him. I was a big fan of the Fonz and was hoping he'd kick on a bit more. It could still happen for him but he's got to really start impressing.
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We have one of the best academies in the country, we bring players through the club from kids to within grasp of the first team.
That is more to do with how small our first team squad has been over the past couple of seasons though. Looking at the last couple of seasons, you would have to say it has been a failed policy really.