Heroes & Villains, the Aston Villa fanzine
Heroes & Villains => Heroes Discussion => Topic started by: Dr Butler on August 24, 2010, 10:31:33 AM
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had a look and could not find anything regarding this topic but if there is feel free to move.
Stylian Petrov, is not captain material and I feel that his reign as Villa captain must come to an end.
The captain should inspire, motivate, cajoel(?), kick up the arse, push and shove, be commanding in his own postion and I do not see it in Stylian.
After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays. I'm not a Petrov-hater as I think he does bring something to the squad but I feel that he should pass that huge responsiblity of being the Villa captain to some-one who can lead the team and club forward.
For me I would give it to Richard Dunne who has a presence about him.
UTV
The Doc
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Would you be posting this if we had won on Sunday?
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There is something calming and reassuring about Richard Dunne (except when he's having one of his bad days). He is a leader but is he the kind of leader we need? Maybe we need somebody who's a bit more vocal and will always give you at the very least a '7' performance.
I don't think Dunne relishes the big games which could be a problem too...
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Would you be posting this if we had won on Sunday?
Probably not, but I have felt for quite a while that he is not up to the task of in my opinion one of the toughest jobs in football - Aston Villa captain.
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I have never been all that comfortable about Petrov being our captain, mainly as I don't think he should be an automatic choice but rather rotated with NRC. I'd agree with giving it to Dunne!
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I'd give it to Cuellar once he's fit.
And I'd play him centre-half, first choice, and let the others fight it out to play with him. Beacuse when it comes to body-on-the-line all out defending, he's the man, and that would be the example I would wish my team to follow.
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I think Stan is a good captain myself.
I'd normally agree with Dunne being a good choice too, but he should've taken responsibility with Clark/Carroll on Sunday, not to mention he seems a bit "out of shape" at the moment. Not good Captain material there.
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I would give the captain's armband to richard dunne beside's i like the centre back being the captain because he see's all the play.
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I'd give it to Cuellar once he's fit.
And I'd play him centre-half, first choice, and let the others fight it out to play with him. Beacuse when it comes to body-on-the-line all out defending, he's the man, and that would be the example I would wish my team to follow.
Spot on.
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I wonder if giving the armband to hamster bollokcs Downing might give him enough motivation to make a tackle this season?
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Has to be Cuellar for me, played alongside Dunne, we need a settled centre half partnership, supported by a new keeper too.
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Has to be Cuellar for me, played alongside Dunne, we need a settled centre half partnership, supported by a new keeper too.
Shay Given ?
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Has to be Cuellar for me, played alongside Dunne, we need a settled centre half partnership, supported by a new keeper too.
It should be!
Shay Given ?
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Dunne should be captain.
End of story.
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A no to me on Dunne as captain. If we are moaning about Petrov after one poor performance we will be having even more threads like this were Dunne captain. He was abysmal on Sunday and unlike Stan who is consistent (depending on your point of view this is either in excellence or averageness) at least usually Dunne's form peaks and troughs like a seismograph.
I remember when we had Mr Personality as Captain (ne'er has such an uninspiring and dispassionate captain existed) everyone was calling for Stan to become captain as he was far more passionate and vocal on the pitch.
I do think if you want a completely committed player who leads by example on the pitch Cuellar is your man. I'm not too sure if he is a loud and communicative voice in the dressing room though. Another decent contender (and I'm saying this as no fan) is Reo-Coker who leads on the pitch if he plays and seems to be a big voice in the dressing room and on the pitch. If we're not going to sign a decent defensive midfielder then he simply has to play alongside Stan and Ireland.
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Reo Coker does lead on the pitch , but I don't think he's a good enough footballer to be on the team sheet week in week out, and a captain should be.
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Reo-Coker......there is a good player in there somewhere, but I'm buggered if anyone could coax him out.
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I'd give it to Cuellar once he's fit.
And I'd play him centre-half, first choice, and let the others fight it out to play with him. Beacuse when it comes to body-on-the-line all out defending, he's the man, and that would be the example I would wish my team to follow.
Spot on.
Sounds like a plan.
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Cuellar isn't a leader IMO.
Dunne is a no brainer. Has he been a captain everywhere he's been?
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Cuellar is a good call, but I think Dunne is more a leader of men. As an off the wall suggestion, I would put Ashley Youngs name in the hat. Shows how much we rate him, so slightly less likely to be tampered with by jellyface, and I think it would do him good having the responsibility. I watched him rant at the ref the other day, and for his development he needs to get past this. I also cannot see a more commited player on the pitch. He really wants success, even on a bad day
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For me I would give it to Richard Dunne who has a presence about him.
About 28lbs of presence I'd say.
And presents too, thinking about it. He gave one to Carroll.
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I recall reading somewhere that Dunne is quite a quiet guy.
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He will do thing and have quiet words when necessary ie When Stephen Ireland drive in with that Range Rover. He told him under no circumstance he should drive it again.
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What about James Collins?
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What about James Collins?
My only question is would James Collins warrant a regular place in the team though? He has captained Wales I suppose, but I look at him as a 2nd or 3rd choice player.
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After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays.
Yet you're advocating Dunne instead who was by all accounts even worse in the same game?
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Why not do what junior teams tend to do up to age of 12yrs -
Change team captain match to match - give them all a go - yes Downing as well
Ducks down ready for flak !!
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i suppose the fact that we havent got many stand out leaders that would be naturals for the job is a bit worying
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i suppose the fact that we havent got many stand out leaders that would be naturals for the job is a bit worying
I think we have - the problem is that we should be in the process of phasing them out of the side (Reo-Coker, Friedel, Carew, Petrov).
I would have no problem with the earlier poster's leftfield suggestion of Ashley Young. Cuellar is also a good shout.
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Leave it for now, If we have to make a change i'd go for Collins or Cuellar
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After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays.
Yet you're advocating Dunne instead who was by all accounts even worse in the same game?
But Dave that was one game from Dunne, Petrov runs out of steam in nearly every game on 60 mins and then sits deeper and deeper allowing the opposition to dominate us.
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Not based on one game but I don;t like Petrov as captain - too quiet, doesn't lead by example enough, disappears from games, not enough presence.
Difficult to see a first choice player who fits the bill apart from Dunne. I'll be in a massive minority here but my choice would be Davies - I'd have him as frst choice CB and he isn't frightened to get stuck in or speak out.
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After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays.
Yet you're advocating Dunne instead who was by all accounts even worse in the same game?
But Dave that was one game from Dunne, Petrov runs out of steam in nearly every game on 60 mins and then sits deeper and deeper allowing the opposition to dominate us.
spot on Dunne was one of the most consistent players last yr whilst stylian unfortunately cant do 90 mins like he used to I think rotate him with Nigel especially away from home anyway
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After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays.
Yet you're advocating Dunne instead who was by all accounts even worse in the same game?
But Dave that was one game from Dunne, Petrov runs out of steam in nearly every game on 60 mins and then sits deeper and deeper allowing the opposition to dominate us.
No he doesn't. He's not perfect, but he's still our best option for captain by a million miles.
Considering some teams play three players to do the job that he does, I agree that he is overworked. But the way to solve that issue it to put someone else in the team to help, not to get rid of an excellent player.
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I often this there's a lack of maturity in ashley youngs game. Things like falling over easy for a foul followed by quite comical Ashley limp. Would the resposibility of captaincy raise his game do you think? He's certainy a player who has the skills and presence to change a game. Would the armband make him a more vocal and motivational player on the pitch?
The sort what would stand up and be counted when it's 0-0 and we need some inspiration?
For me there is no stand out candidate. Dunne definitely has the authority and maybe having the armband would make him much more vocal on the pitch.
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Another dismal performance from the team and one of the most important players in the team-the captain, seems unable to rally the troops again.
Sorry Stan you did your best, but you are not good enough to be captain of Aston Villa.
UTV
the Doc
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hes not good enough to play for us either unless he has someone doing his midfield work for him....
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I've always liked Petrov and can see why MON made him Captain.
He was never going to score that penalty last night. It was worse than Carew's on Sunday as you knew there wasn't going to be enough pace on it with a 2 step run up to the ball. He would have been slated even more for it if it wasn't for Emile's comedy miss from the rebound.
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I like Petrov but lost a lot of respect for him last night when he tried to pass the blame of the defeat at the fact we don't have a permanant manager. And this from the same player that was calling for the club to give the job to Kevin MacDonald.
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He played an excellent ball to Ash for the set up for Gabby's goal. Not sideways at all. Of course that is ignored
He should never have taken that penalty. I don't know why he did, I don't know if he wanted to or if he was forced too but he never should have done so.
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In my opinion, Petrov has always been shit. 95% of his passes are sideways or backwards and we get nowhere. NRC could easily do what he does, but chooses not to because, I'd like to think, he wants to get somehwere with the ball. I'm all for keeping the ball and waiting for the right moment, but he rarely finds the right moment.
Add to the fact that he's incredibly slow and can't tackle. I think he's had half a good season since he's been with us, which isn't good enough in 4 years (is it 4 years?).
I reckon he missed the penalty because he had to kick the ball forward, something he's not used to doing.
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In my opinion, Petrov has always been shit.
Contratulations, you've more or less admitted you don't actually understand how football works.
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Lets just ship out the likes of Petrov, Davies, Beye and Heskey, give Clark the captaincy, and start playing the likes of Albrighton Bannan Delfouneso Delph when he's fit, and build a team that is going to be working hard for each other and will understand what it is to play for the shirt. Ideally a formation along the lines of
Friedel
Young/Lichaj Clark/Collins Dunne/Cuellar Warnock
Bannan NRC/Delph
Young Ireland Albrighton/Downing
Gabby/Delofuneso
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Lets just ship out the likes of Petrov, Davies, Beye and Heskey, give Clark the captaincy, and start playing the likes of Albrighton Bannan Delfouneso Delph when he's fit, and build a team that is going to be working hard for each other and will understand what it is to play for the shirt. Ideally a formation along the lines of
Friedel
Young/Lichaj Clark/Collins Dunne/Cuellar Warnock
Bannan NRC/Delph
Young Ireland Albrighton/Downing
Gabby/Delofuneso
Clark really? Come off it he's way too young. No-one really stands out Dunne makes so many mistakes and Coker doesnt play enough. Friedel is the only one to really seem to talk to the players and get them motivated and he's not good enough in my view
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on the penalty, just before petrov took all of his useless 2 step run up, i noticed ashley young running to the box from the sideline on the halfway line,
was he getting treatment for an injury, or was he getting instructions?
young, albrighton, ireland, each of them would have scored IMO
ash took pens before milner so should take them now
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Dunne's a fatty and doesn't deserve to be our captain.
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In my opinion, Petrov has always been shit.
Contratulations, you've more or less admitted you don't actually understand how football works.
Why, because you don't agree? I know plenty of people who do not, and have not, ever rated Petrov. With a more dynamic midfielder instead of him, we could've been looking at higher than 6th places in the last few seasons. Any donkey can pass a ball 2 metres sideways or backwards, even NRC can do that but chooses not to.
Add to this he's incredibly slow and cannot tackle. He was lucky enough to have quality players (Barry, Milner) to play alongisde him to make him look slightly better than he was/is.
Half a season in 4 seasons he's played well. Not good enough. Harewood achieved more than that.
Edit: Having reflected on my initial statement, I don't actually think he's shit. However, I certainly do think he's not good enough for Villa.
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Petrov is a good player, and been bloody good the last couple of years,we would surely miss him if he aint in the team.
He needs to put in a captains performance tomorrow along with the other 10 players and help take the heat off our board and put a smile back on our faces.
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In my opinion, Petrov has always been shit.
Contratulations, you've more or less admitted you don't actually understand how football works.
Why, because you don't agree? I know plenty of people who do not, and have not, ever rated Petrov.
I don't agree, but that isn't why you don't understand how football works.
If someone cannot see the job that Petrov does (and this comes with the caveat that I'm perfectly happy to admit that he can't go on for ever and it is time to start thinking about a potential replacement) and has done for the last two seasons then they really don't get the most basic logistics of the game.
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I know that what Petrov does, he has done well for the past couple of years. But it's a bit like using a Ferrari to do a paper round. He was bought to do a lot more than pass ten yards sideways.
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I know that what Petrov does, he has done well for the past couple of years. But it's a bit like using a Ferrari to do a paper round. He was bought to do a lot more than pass ten yards sideways.
Barcelona have just spent £18m on a player who does a very similar job, minus the vision and the passing ability. We did buy him to be more attacking, but we bought Gareth Barry to be a left-sided defender, James Milner to be a right-midfielder and Dwight Yorke to be a winger. Just because their best performances for us weren't in the position we thought they would be doesn't mean they weren't valuable.
I really believe that if Petrov were 25 rather than 31 then we would have clubs queuing up for him at the moment.
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I know that what Petrov does, he has done well for the past couple of years. But it's a bit like using a Ferrari to do a paper round. He was bought to do a lot more than pass ten yards sideways.
Barcelona have just spent £18m on a player who does a very similar job, minus the vision and the passing ability. We did buy him to be more attacking, but we bought Gareth Barry to be a left-sided defender, James Milner to be a right-midfielder and Dwight Yorke to be a winger. Just because their best performances for us weren't in the position we thought they would be doesn't mean they weren't valuable.
I really believe that if Petrov were 25 rather than 31 then we would have clubs queuing up for him at the moment.
But he isn't, and we haven't. He's been an okayish defensive midfielder when we bought him to be a matchwinner.
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But he isn't, and we haven't. He's been an okayish defensive midfielder when we bought him to be a matchwinner.
As I said, I don't think it matters what we bought him to be. We bought Reo-Coker to be a defensive midfielder and it turned out that an attacking player that we bought for less money was far better at it than he was. So we put Petrov there and bought better players to do the attacking instead.
As for 'okayish', he plays in a position that it's more or less impossible to stand out. As I said in an earlier post, the fact that that we had a very decent defensive record last season in spite of the fact that we had just Petrov doing the job that some teams pick three players to perform suggest that he was doing that job very well.
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But he isn't, and we haven't. He's been an okayish defensive midfielder when we bought him to be a matchwinner.
As I said, I don't think it matters what we bought him to be. We bought Reo-Coker to be a defensive midfielder and it turned out that an attacking player that we bought for less money was far better at it than he was. So we put Petrov there and bought better players to do the attacking instead.
As for 'okayish', he plays in a position that it's more or less impossible to stand out. As I said in an earlier post, the fact that that we had a very decent defensive record last season in spite of the fact that we had just Petrov doing the job that some teams pick three players to perform suggest that he was doing that job very well.
Doing the job of three players? I really don't think so.
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But he isn't, and we haven't. He's been an okayish defensive midfielder when we bought him to be a matchwinner.
As I said, I don't think it matters what we bought him to be. We bought Reo-Coker to be a defensive midfielder and it turned out that an attacking player that we bought for less money was far better at it than he was. So we put Petrov there and bought better players to do the attacking instead.
As for 'okayish', he plays in a position that it's more or less impossible to stand out. As I said in an earlier post, the fact that that we had a very decent defensive record last season in spite of the fact that we had just Petrov doing the job that some teams pick three players to perform suggest that he was doing that job very well.
Doing the job of three players? I really don't think so.
On Monday, Man City played De Jong, Barry and Touré in defensive midfield.
Who else do we play in defensive midfield other than Petrov?
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I loved his goal away at Derby.
Wish i could post it for everyone. >:(
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I've had a lot of time for Petrov and can't bring myself to slag him off like many do.
However, he's a MON-man and I do have a concern that he's not mentally what he should be since O'Neill fled.
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Petrov gets an awful lot of stick considering how good a player he is.
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Petrov gets an awful lot of stick considering how good a player he is.
you mean how good a player he used to be. up until about december last year i rated him quite highly too.
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How do 'okayish' midfield players win Player of the Year Awards?
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I think James Collins performance today is everything you want from a captain: Passionate, leading by example and an incredible will to win. He won absolutely everything that came his way. He inspired the players around him
As good a player as Petrov is/has been, i'm not sure he has all of them qualities in him.
I think when the new gaffer comes in, he'd be wise to make Collins skipper.
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That's a good shout there taylorsworkrate.
If he continues to play like he has been he should become captain. Yesterday was an amazing performance by him.
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It's good to have more than one captain on the pitch. Collins and Dunne are warriors and catch the eye more readily as potential leaders but Petrov is under rated.
How many examples can you think of where a club has demoted the captain a few games into the season?
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It's good to have more than one captain on the pitch. Collins and Dunne are warriors and catch the eye more readily as potential leaders but Petrov is under rated.
How many examples can you think of where a club has demoted the captain a few games into the season?
A new manager coming in could potentially change the captain. Although I don't think he will if i'm honest. Petrov last season for me wasn't captain material. I'm not just basing my views on the last three matches.
Flip side to that of course could be with a new manager and new ideas he could have a new role for petrov and he could flourish. He's had one good season since being at villa. He need to do more to prove he's worthy of that armband.
I'm trying really hard to like the guy. I just find him so frustrating. We all know he has the ability. I've said somewhere else on this website, he can ping a 40/50 yard pass inch perfect and you're left gobsmacked. But he does too much sideways that stops the flow of football.
Again, i get you need players like that, moving the ball around, it's not all about going forward. But he does it too much and there can be better passing options available.
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I hope people do realise that the fact MON signed Petrov for Villa does not make the latter automatically a MON pet. He's too professional in his relationship with his boss, which apparently people misread as weakness and blind obbeyance. Suggestion that MON's been on the phone to suggest disruptive actions by the captain are pathetic. And I wonder what people see (or more like don't see) as captain's material? Captain is someone who talks, stands by his teammates, shows passion, encourages during the game etc. I'm biased but I see Petrov doing this very, very well and also don't see anyone else from our current crop of players doing it better.
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I hope people do realise that the fact MON signed Petrov for Villa does not make the latter automatically a MON pet. He's too professional in his relationship with his boss, which apparently people misread as weakness and blind obbeyance. Suggestion that MON's been on the phone to suggest disruptive actions by the captain are pathetic. And I wonder what people see (or more like don't see) as captain's material? Captain is someone who talks, stands by his teammates, shows passion, encourages during the game etc. I'm biased but I see Petrov doing this very, very well and also don't see anyone else from our current crop of players doing it better.
I absolutely agree.
He seems to have become, somewhat undeservedly, a scapegoat for some of our fans.
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petrovs a good captain,wish fans wud give downing a chance too, mons let us down not his captain nows a time of pulling together
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I think James Collins performance today is everything you want from a captain: Passionate, leading by example and an incredible will to win. He won absolutely everything that came his way. He inspired the players around him
As good a player as Petrov is/has been, i'm not sure he has all of them qualities in him.
I think when the new gaffer comes in, he'd be wise to make Collins skipper.
Agreed.
I also think we should pair Carlos with Collins as the middle two in defense. As well as the battling performance we saw from Collins against Blue-Scouse he is an organiser/talker (much more than Dunne) and is easily the best passer of the three.
I would leave Dunne out until he re-gains the form of the first half of last season. I like Dunne but I don't see why he should be allowed to use first-team matches to shed the extra pounds he has added.
Back to Stan - with Milner gone we have lost some of the energy and drive in midfield. Ireland offers something else but now we have to think about balance to ensure we don't get overrun in midfield.
For that reason, plus the fact that Stan sometimes struggles to get sufficiently involved in some matches and always fades badly means, for me, than he is no longer a nailed on starter - so no way can he be captain.
Unless they do that 'Club Captain' nonsense so he can chat to sponsors and be rent-a-quote for the website, but even that is unlikely when a new manager comes in (even if that is Kevin Mac).
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Petrov does a useful job for us, he just needs to be able to last more than 70 mins as the season progresses. Saw him having a quiet word with Albrighton during the first half yesterday about tracking back, once he'd done that the young lad's all round game improved no end. Good bit of captaincy that but seems to go unnoticed by the so-called expert pundits.
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had a look and could not find anything regarding this topic but if there is feel free to move.
Stylian Petrov, is not captain material and I feel that his reign as Villa captain must come to an end.
The captain should inspire, motivate, cajoel(?), kick up the arse, push and shove, be commanding in his own postion and I do not see it in Stylian.
After Sundays debacle he should not even be in the team as he goes missing for alot of the games he plays. I'm not a Petrov-hater as I think he does bring something to the squad but I feel that he should pass that huge responsiblity of being the Villa captain to some-one who can lead the team and club forward.
I am a huge Petrov hater. having cruised, and failed to work hard when he joined us, he only put in 2/3rds of a seasons effort to secure a new contract with the lovestruck and gullible MON after three years , and then we were back to his old ways.
His stats show that he doesnt score, doesn't provide assists and is not a strong tackler. Exactly what he does other than behave like a poor mans Gavin McCann has always been a bit of a mystery to me. On Sunday mid way through the second half I had to check that he had not been subbed so little a contribution had he made.
He has been a passenger in our team for far too long, and his ill advised NOTW comments suggest that he knows that a new manager will find him out pretty quickly. A move to Blackpool, Wigan or Bolton beckons.
He should not be anywhere near the team- let alone the Captaincy.