Enzo Barrenechea - on loan at Benfica

[pablo_picasso]

I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".

That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.

In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.

All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.

Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.

[PaulWinch again]

That’s fair enough, but they’re very different players. A better comparison would be swapping Kamara for either of those.

[paul_e]

World Class is always a subjective definition.  But in my opinion, Luiz was one of the best midfielders in the PL (for most of) last season and that certainly has to put him in the conversation.  Other than Rodri and Rice, were there any other better performers?

Put another way, I'd swap Luiz for Rodri (in a heartbeat) or Rice. 

How I define world class (and I agree it's subjective and other people will view it differently) is if you could drop a player into almost any team in the world and they'd either improve them or at least look as good as who they replaced.

For me there are very few teams that wouldn't look better with prime Luiz in their midfield, he needs to be more consistent but he also needs to be played in his best role consistently as well.

Either way the point remains that a direct replacement of the same quality who could come in and do the job immediately is highly unlikely so our focus is (and had to be) improving the overall quality of the squad. How successful that will be is hard to judge until we're a litle way inot the season and start seeing the squad depth get tested.

[edgysatsuma89]

I reckon if you put a Tim showreel together it would probably be just as impressive as this lad and Tim is 2 years younger.

But yes Monty, Brighton wanting him does help.

I don't ever watch showreels, there is no point. Once you're playing at this level if someone can't snip together 3 minutes worth of you doing decent passes or interceptions etc then you really aren't good enough.

I also agree on Brighton wanting him making me a bit more favourable to the deal.

[Toronto Villa]

My slight concern with this kid is that when hasn’t broken through properly yet, and at 23 was still deemed surplus to requirements for first team action at Juventus. I know players develop at different rates, and it also has to do with Juve’s squad depth that maybe they couldn’t accommodate him. Then of course if he was a starter or squad player he’d be worth more and might not be part of this deal. Hopefully he’s not really a prospect and closer to challenging for a first team spot much like Rodgers did quickly.

[pablo_picasso]

Tbf, I think players in the CDM position tend to develop a little later due to the complexities of the position.

Especially if you are then expected to either drive forward with the ball or to pass it aggressively forward, while shielding the ball from pressing, like players who play for Emery are expected to do.

Thats not to say I know anything of Barrenechea other than what I have read, so he may just not be very good, & obviously, not all players develop at the same rate, but I do strongly believe in the above.

[paul_e]

Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.

[PeterWithe]

Hmm, I'm firmly on the same page, we are giving up a topdrawer player, the finished item, for two who 'might' come good, and not enough money to notice.

As an aside, I've been to Frosinone's ground, its about the same size as Solihull Borough.

[PaulWinch again]

Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.

That’s positive, but a couple of things. When we signed Kamara it was seen as a real coup, his talent was known. Also I suspect it’s easier to do that role in Serie A than the PL.

[eamonn]

I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".

That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.

In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.

All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.

Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.

It seems we are under pressure to book a chunk of income in by the end of June while Luiz has reportedly turned-down a new contract offer in the past six months and CL qualification doesn't seem to have changed his mind. Juve can't afford to buy him outright, hence the part player-exchange which we're clearly open to take a number of their squad. Emery's record in improving players is exceptional so all these things considered, it's probably the best we can do in the situation.

[paul_e]

Statistically he's just had a season in Serie A that was very similar to that of Kamara for us in 22/23. Defensively solid, mostly tidy in possession but with a couple of silly mistakes, all in a team that was clearly out of their depth.

That’s positive, but a couple of things. When we signed Kamara it was seen as a real coup, his talent was known. Also I suspect it’s easier to do that role in Serie A than the PL.

That's true here as well though, there are plenty of people saying we're getting a bit of an unpolished gem here. Being the DM in a team that's comparable to Luton isn't easy in any league.

I'm not saying he's gonig to come in and be exceptional and we won't miss Luiz at all but rather that, looking at it purely on statistics and very limited highlights, I can see why we'd be happy to bring him in, he has everything you'd want in a player to cover for/compete with Kamara.

[Toronto Villa]

I think we will sign a proper proven quality replacement for Luiz after July 1. All of this is being done a record pace to get under some sort of bullshit target by June 30. We are making all kinds of moves while the sides we are directly competing against again for CL spots have to do anything and can seemingly buy who they want.

[jwarry]

I think we will sign a proper proven quality replacement for Luiz after July 1. All of this is being done a record pace to get under some sort of bullshit target by June 30. We are making all kinds of moves while the sides we are directly competing against again for CL spots have to do anything and can seemingly buy who they want.

As you wrote that I said the same thing on the transfers thread

[pablo_picasso]

I cant say that I know too much about Enzo Barrenechea other than what I have read, & granted people say he has potential & would cover the CDM gap we currently have, but if the rumours are to be believed, we actually wanted Soule & Juventus told us "no".

That to me, should have been the time we tell them the deal was off & made demands that we wanted more.

In a more realistic world, we get Iling-Junior, Soule AND Barrenechea for a player of Douglas Luiz calibre, to a club that has fuck all money to afford a player of Douglas Luiz calibre.

All the young players we are linked to have shown a lot of promise (apparently for Barrenechea), but for the Premier League, they have shown nothing as of yet, so I don't see why we should be paying premium for them while losing an actual world class talent.

Whether this Argentinian kid is any good, only time will tell.

It seems we are under pressure to book a chunk of income in by the end of June while Luiz has reportedly turned-down a new contract offer in the past six months and CL qualification doesn't seem to have changed his mind. Juve can't afford to buy him outright, hence the part player-exchange which we're clearly open to take a number of their squad. Emery's record in improving players is exceptional so all these things considered, it's probably the best we can do in the situation.

I get the reasoning, but I don't agree 100% with the bolded bit.

I think we are in a strong negotiating position because Juventus could not have afforded a player like Douglas Luiz from a Premier League club.

Most comments from our fans took the piss out of them when this was first reported due to the above.

Granted, we have our own reasons for selling, but I think we could play hardball with them & demand a bit more.

I just don't see why we have to make all of the concessions. After Juventus fucked around McKennie & his leaving finances, they should be falling over backwards to make this deal work...

[Toronto Villa]

Our reasons for selling is in large part because Luiz didn’t want to sign a new deal with us. In that case let’s get the best deal we can from a club that showed an interest in buying him. As much as we valued him, that apparently wasn’t shared by top clubs in Europe. He was constantly linked to Arsenal and nothing came of that. He apparently wanted Barcelona and they didn’t make a move for him. So we have a deal with Juventus which satisfies both sides and helps offset some of our PSR concerns.