"I thought those days were behind us."

[paul_e]

Again though, it's the manner of the defeat. Newcastle were well in the match and had chances to go ahead. We were distinctly second best for the entire match. It happens as you say, but also as I said, it shows that the Newcastle match wasn't some random one off.

However, we've now got a run of fixtures that look quite kind, until the end of November/start of December.

How often do teams lose a centre half to injury in the first quarter of the game and have to rejig their defence, generally I'd guess it's once or twice a season at most, we've had it twice in 6 games, both away at teams that have fantastic home records. That doesn't excuse everything but it has a massive impact, especially given in both cases it was the more aggressive centre half that we lost, which left us looking a bit light-weight in there.

Aside from that I think the Liverpool game was the first time we've looked like we were really missing Ramsey who I think would've given us a lot more stability down our left.

[pablo_picasso]

Oh do get a grip, honestly.

Who are you talking to?

Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?

No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.

No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.

Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.

How fucking dare you.

For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.

For the second time this season.

So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?

Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.

Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.

Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.

Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.

And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...

But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.

What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?

[Monty]

'How you're allowed to think', forsooth. A completely sober and proportionate response.

[dave.woodhall]

Oh do get a grip, honestly.

Who are you talking to?

Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?

No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.

No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.

Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.

How fucking dare you.

For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.

For the second time this season.

So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?

Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.

Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.

Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.

Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.

And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...

But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.

What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?

Your initial reply wasn't the problem.

[Risso]

Again though, it's the manner of the defeat. Newcastle were well in the match and had chances to go ahead. We were distinctly second best for the entire match. It happens as you say, but also as I said, it shows that the Newcastle match wasn't some random one off.

However, we've now got a run of fixtures that look quite kind, until the end of November/start of December.

How often do teams lose a centre half to injury in the first quarter of the game and have to rejig their defence, generally I'd guess it's once or twice a season at most, we've had it twice in 6 games, both away at teams that have fantastic home records. That doesn't excuse everything but it has a massive impact, especially given in both cases it was the more aggressive centre half that we lost, which left us looking a bit light-weight in there.

Aside from that I think the Liverpool game was the first time we've looked like we were really missing Ramsey who I think would've given us a lot more stability down our left.

We were 2-1 down to Newcastle and 1-0 down to Liverpool with both central defenders still in the team. Liverpool had had 4 shots before Carlos went off, and were well on top.

[pablo_picasso]

Oh do get a grip, honestly.

Who are you talking to?

Yourself! No effort? You think Ollie Watkins suddenly didn't care? Or that a very good team with a very good manager got the better of us?

No work rate? I'd bet their distance-run stats were absolutely huge, they just stuck us into a whole bunch of catch-22s all over the pitch.

No clue? We have one of the best and most tactically savvy and thorough managers, no joke, in the world. He was up against another of them, one with more resources over many more years to build a team, and whose team got a 2nd minute lead with a set-piece leading to a long shot.

Not saying it's all bad luck or whatever, but can we not be so silly.

How fucking dare you.

For starters, Im not the only person who have raised concerns in a game where we were absolute shite for 90 minutes.

For the second time this season.

So who the fuck do you think you are to tell me that I need to "get a grip" in a condescending prick tone?

Yesterday was shit. And that is being complementary to shit.

Not everything has to be ALL candy floss grass & lollipop trees.

Not everything has to be ALL doom & gloom.

Sometimes, there are shit things happening at the same time as good things.

And I don't need YOU to hold my fucking hand & give me your permission to voice my fucking opinion...

But you do need to be a bit more courteous in your replies.

What was discourteous to anybody on this site in my initial response that warranted being told how I am allowed to think?

Your initial reply wasn't the problem.

But that other poster is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me?

And then do the same thing again.

Look, I am brutally honest & I say what I think.

Could I be more polite at times?

Probably.

I am not adverse to listening to people who don't agree with me & accepting points they make,.

There are plenty of examples of that on this site.

But if people talk to me like I am shit on their shoe, how am I meant to respond, courteously?...

[Sexual Ealing]

You could at least capitalise words appropriately.

[Clampy]

I'm not sure you can accuse the players of lack of effort or lack of work rate. We were just second best.

[Drummond]

Maybe those who see it differently can explain their rationale?

It's only two games, but we've been really badly beaten in both of them. The set up wasn't right, and when things started to go badly we had no answer in either of them. In addition, Watkins is on a run of 1 goal in 11 games, but yet again we didn't bring in another striker. Duran looks so far away from being ready for the Premier League it's not even funny.

Without taking away your valid points, I actually did find it funny when Duran tried the second time.

Would be funny if Archer hadn't hit two cracking shots the day before with technical ability that Duran can only dream of. He just charges around the place like a mad man.

His goal on Thursday was a wild and crazy finish, by someone who has no technical ability, for sure.

[Monty]

Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.

[dave.woodhall]

But that other poster is allowed to be a condescending prick towards me?

And then do the same thing again.

Look, I am brutally honest & I say what I think.

Could I be more polite at times?

Probably.

I am not adverse to listening to people who don't agree with me & accepting points they make,.

There are plenty of examples of that on this site.

But if people talk to me like I am shit on their shoe, how am I meant to respond, courteously?...

Yes.

[pablo_picasso]

I'm not sure you can accuse the players of lack of effort or lack of work rate. We were just second best.

A disagreement I can work with. Thank you.

Being second to everything, all match, is part of that effort & work rate for me.

Granted there may have been some instructions not to close down so often, as part of teams countering our high line is drawing us further forward when we press & then hitting the ball in behind for their pacy players to chase down, but we were second to pretty much everything.

So did they run around a lot?

Probably as much as any team who is playing without the ball... But I haven't seen the tracker stats to say yes or no.

Im just angry with yesterday. I hate losing to Liverpool. Especially in that manner.

I am hoping that is it merely similar to last year when we had poor results against Leicester, etc, & once the defence have played together for a while it will all settle down.

My initial point however was that not everybody is unhappy with the result. Those things happen.

It was the performance that is more like "those days".

And while I cant speak for everybody, obviously, I can speak for more than one person, because I have read it & I have spoken to more than one person who has shared the same thought.

[pablo_picasso]

Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.

Fair enough.

I respond to people how they speak to me on the whole.

But, I am angry at yesterday still & that probably didn't help my reaction.

So I apologise too.

I have posted below, so it may answer one or two of the points you made.

Lets have a virtual handshake & walk away smiling.

[Bad English]

Handbags! I'm reminded of Duran and Gomez on Saturday. ;-)

[Monty]

Look, I'm sorry if I thought you were being more over-the-top negative than you felt you were being. Your subsequent replies didn't exactly quell the suspicion, however, of one who really fancies themselves a straight-shooter yet who cries foul play when they find themselves in the firing line.

Fair enough.

I respond to people how they speak to me on the whole.

But, I am angry at yesterday still & that probably didn't help my reaction.

So I apologise too.

I have posted below, so it may answer one or two of the points you made.

Lets have a virtual handshake & walk away smiling.

You nicked all your best football opinions from henri_matisse anyway .