Pau Torres

[tomd2103]

The habit of conceding sloppy goals crept in last season and has continued into this one.

Mings used to be the one who used to switch off for sloppy goals. Yes, it was stopped in Emery's first half season, but we definite used to do it before then.

Undoubtedly, but I think it has got worse in the last couple of seasons.  I guess it happens, but even when we seem to be in total control of games (Tuesday night being an example) we seem to concede a soft goal and then put ourselves under pressure. 

Watching them live, it just smacks me a bit that there isn't that real hard edge at the back and that grit and determination to keep a clean sheet.  That suggests it might be more of a mindset and mentality or it could even be concentration.  It's hard to complain when we've had the couple of seasons we've had though, but if we are to take that next leap, then I think that is definitely one area to improve.

[Somniloquism]

That, and also the "the defence doesn't make silly mistakes when Mings is playing" takes seem to have memory-holed the Brugge game a bit.

People are obviously talking about general defensive lapses in terms of dealing with opposition players, rather than once in a career brain farts from a goal kick.

But some people seem to also forget that Mings has also had his collection of errors and brain farts when he was playing regularly, even before the Brugge one.

I think you'd be hard pushed to argue that Mings hasn't made a lot more mistakes than any of the other defenders over the last 2-3 years. Even comparing his mistake to Konsa's is nonsense really if you look at the match. Konsa's was a last gasp attempt after Lukaku had completely got away from Targett. Mings made no attempt at all.

I would still want Mings in the defence though.

[Risso]

Digging up a post from three years ago referencing Mings pre-Emery from 2019? Even by your low standards, that's pretty dumb.

[VillaTim]

That horror pass from Torres straight to their CF . We were so lucky to have not gone 2-3 behind there to the worst team in the league

[Somniloquism]

Digging up a post from three years ago referencing Mings pre-Emery from 2019? Even by your low standards, that's pretty dumb.

Someone pointed out that Mings has made a "once only brainfart" and is miles better then what we have now, (And I'm pretty sure that if we looked at the Brugge thread, you are giving him a right hosing over the mistake then as well.)

But others have stated we only started giving stupid defensive mistakes when he got injured. So I actually went looking for games when he had made them like Norwich away (beautiful header under no pressure straight to the attacker). But I couldn't resist when I saw that quote.

I also believe that when he did have the Captaincy changed, there were some comments along the lines of "maybe it will concentrate his mind more to cut out the mistakes". Yes Emery did improve him in that first half season, along with the rest but that was down to him telling Mings he did not have to be everywhere on the and to just concentrate on his man.

[brontebilly]

Unai states that Pau is integral to the way we play - it is strange how even after victory in the Champions league, we have to try and find a scapegoat.

That’s undoubtedly true about certain posters on H&V who can’t wait to support their false narratives. I’ve consumed hours of content on the Liepzig match, watched the whole match again, heard the pundits and listened to five or six Villa podcasts. Pau, Carlos and Konsa barely got a mention when they’re apportioning blame for the goals. They all blame Emi (with the exception of The Villa Podcast, which has a long-standing antipathy towards Carlos). But it was entirely predictable who would get the blame on here, even if people with a clue about football corrected them.

Maybe a bit of fresh air rather than hot air is called for in your case?

[Risso]

Digging up a post from three years ago referencing Mings pre-Emery from 2019? Even by your low standards, that's pretty dumb.

Someone pointed out that Mings has made a "once only brainfart" and is miles better then what we have now, (And I'm pretty sure that if we looked at the Brugge thread, you are giving him a right hosing over the mistake then as well.)

But others have stated we only started giving stupid defensive mistakes when he got injured. So I actually went looking for games when he had made them like Norwich away (beautiful header under no pressure straight to the attacker). But I couldn't resist when I saw that quote.

I also believe that when he did have the Captaincy changed, there were some comments along the lines of "maybe it will concentrate his mind more to cut out the mistakes". Yes Emery did improve him in that first half season, along with the rest but that was down to him telling Mings he did not have to be everywhere on the and to just concentrate on his man.

You really aren't as clever as you perhaps think you are. My point was "People are obviously talking about general defensive lapses in terms of dealing with opposition players, rather than once in a career brain farts from a goal kick."

Highlights in bold for the hard of thinking

Since Mings has been playing under Emery, he's largely cut out the mistakes from general play, like heading the ball into dangerous positions in our area, or passing the ball straight to attackers. The goal kick fuck up was a terrible mistake that cost us the match, but it was absolutely nothing to do with his general play as a defender, which as he showed against Brentford, remains top notch. If you need any further explanation, and you probably do, here's one last try.

Mings has made quite a few errors in his career, and he used to have a reputation for them. Under Emery, he mostly cut them out. The goal kick fiasco was nothing to do with how good a defender he is, he clearly just didn't think the ball was in play. He's never done it before, and will almost certainly never do that again, hence the "once in a career".

[brontebilly]

Our defensive struggles aren't really down to individuals, even when we make clear mistakes more often than not they're a communication/cohesion issue.

For this game I'd say there were 2 big errors, the first goal and the intercepted Pau pass, I don't think the 2nd goal was an error in defence.

For the first no one takes control of the situation and for the 2nd Pau needed more support as he was put under a lot of pressure.

If we pick the same back 4 for a bunch of games in a row I think these problems solved themselves but that just hasn't happened this year. I don't think we've had the same defense 2 games in a row since September and that's hurting us. Partly it's down to Emery trying to keep everyone happy but there's also been injuries to Cash and Mings recovery as well as niggles for Carlos, Konsa and Pau.

We finally seem to be getting a more stable squad now so I think things will improve soon.

Lack of cohesion won't be fixed by picking the same individuals, the more the sample size increases it's worse they are getting. Namely Carlos and Torres as a pair. Cash and Digne are having solid seasons in the full back positions, early on in Emery's reign we used get overloaded down the flanks but that doesn't happen anymore. Kamara back into midfield has fixed what was a gaping gap in front of them. So the excuses are running out but the mistakes are increasing.

Konsa shouldn't be escaping criticism either, at this stage of his career he shouldn't need a leader next to him. Pointing fingers at everybody else is not leadership. He has been poor this season.

[Somniloquism]

Mings has made quite a few errors in his career, and he used to have a reputation for them. Under Emery, he mostly cut them out. The goal kick fiasco was nothing to do with how good a defender he is, he clearly just didn't think the ball was in play. He's never done it before, and will almost certainly never do that again, hence the "once in a career".

I thought that was my argument at the time, yours was "utterly idiotic, there is no excuse for such a stupid action".

But we seem to agree on that now, plus also he has been error prone in the past. But when the errors were cut out, (or at least any made were not punished as much) we were defending deep and hitting on the break. Unfortunately Tyrone wasn't around last season to see if he would have still been as defensively strong when we play with the high line AND with the high press which leaves less cover for the defenders, unlike that half season. So although I do want him to play more, for people to state we wouldn't be making errors with him playing seems to ignore most of his Villa career previously.

[Risso]

I think there's been a noticeable move away from Torres trying 50 yard killer passes, to giving it to either Tielemans but more so, Kamara to try to advance the ball. Looks like Emery wants more defensive stability from his defenders and to let the cultured midfielders do the creative stuff.

[Percy McCarthy]

Unai states that Pau is integral to the way we play - it is strange how even after victory in the Champions league, we have to try and find a scapegoat.

That’s undoubtedly true about certain posters on H&V who can’t wait to support their false narratives. I’ve consumed hours of content on the Liepzig match, watched the whole match again, heard the pundits and listened to five or six Villa podcasts. Pau, Carlos and Konsa barely got a mention when they’re apportioning blame for the goals. They all blame Emi (with the exception of The Villa Podcast, which has a long-standing antipathy towards Carlos). But it was entirely predictable who would get the blame on here, even if people with a clue about football corrected them.

Maybe a bit of fresh air rather than hot air is called for in your case?

I get plenty of fresh air thanks. I’m in the fortunate position to be able to listen to and watch whatever I like during working hours, many of which are spent out in the fresh air.

Still, one would think that everybody, regardless of the air quality they enjoy, would agree that it’s a good thing for their team to keep clean sheets and concede fewer goals. One would think that, and then you post again, vehemently opposing that idea.

[AV84]

I wonder if Torres' "faults" are exacerbated by what's happening in midfield? He had Luiz and Kamara in front of him for most of last season. Then we lost Kamara for months, Dougie went in the summer, McGinn hasn't been great for spells this season, Onana's been injured, Tielemans is hot and cold. There hasn't necessarily been that solid midfield set up we had for most of last season.

[VillaTim]

He wasn't that great at defending last season either . Remember early warning signs at Burnley away when he was very weakly rolled on the front post for their goal .

[PaulWinch again]

That horror pass from Torres straight to their CF . We were so lucky to have not gone 2-3 behind there to the worst team in the league

Of course, but that is not really representative of defensive weakness. It’s a complete brain fade but it’s got nothing to do with his actual capability - well no more than Mings putting his hand on the ball in the area.

[VillaTim]

Totally different for me . Mings used to have fairly regular lapses when we first came up but that's largely eradicated now . The Brugges incident he thinks the ball is dead simple as . Whilst Torres is a decent passer , midfield like in some ways I see his defensive frailties more regularly still . Another good example being Fulham away when he was easily bullied for their goal