That Night- 20 Years On

[dave.woodhall]

A dreadful night. Can't believe it is 20 years ago. It doesn't feel like 20 years.

I couldn't understand why SGT kept Angel on the fringes that whole season. Angel has 44 premier league goals for Villa. It probably would be 55+ had SGT used him that season.

And what was 'C**tgate'? Sounds intriguing!

Angel was injured.

He was injured for some parts but also available for others but SGT went with Crouch-Vassell at the start (even though it was too soon for Crouchy to be regularly starting) and then put in Dublin around October/November.

Angel-Vassell in the two full seasons together as first choice did very well generally hitting double figures each so surprise to me it was tinkered with for more unproven options.

Just passing on what the great man told me.

[Clark W Griswold]

I got over it a long time ago anyway. They had a good 6 game run against us, W4 D2 but then we went on to win 6 in a row. In fact in the 16 games since that good 6 game run for them it's W11 D4 L1 for us. Specifically since the night in question its P20 W11 D6 L3 so we put it right on the pitch where it's most important. And if we talk about humiliation they never did us like the 5-1, when we looked like we were at least 2 divisions better than them.

[TopDeck113]

The two games that season were everything that was - and is - wrong with the rivalry. And that's without getting upset about the results. The atmosphere at Villa Park was toxic.

I really hope that we never again get relegated and that they never again manage to claw themselves into the top division.

[LeeB]

The two games that season were everything that was - and is - wrong with the rivalry. And that's without getting upset about the results. The atmosphere at Villa Park was toxic.

I really hope that we never again get relegated and that they never again manage to claw themselves into the top division.

I know, but on the flipside the two games in 07-08 were fucking magic, a late winner over there and the aforementioned rout at home.

[dave shelley]

We beat them 6-2 in the very early sixties, could have been 1960 even.  I was at it and I remember Gerry Hitchens got a hat-trick.

[brontebilly]

Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.

It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.

Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.

It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.

His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.

I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.

[curiousorange]

Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.

It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.

Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.

It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.

His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.

I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.

That last sentence is true, but he wouldn't be the first awful keeper to play in the Premier League. Hell, we might have had three or four worse keepers since.

[PeterWithe]

He wasn’t at all bad up to that point, that game ruined him, and so it should.

Before that game he looked a promising keeper who’s career could have gone either way.

[Dave P]

This fixture messed with my mind. I'd absolutely dread losing and although victories were enjoyable, they were more like relief than anything. I don't miss these games at all.

The best analogy I’ve heard is playing them is like fighting a midget. If we lose we’d never hear the end of it. Win, and we look like we enjoy beating up midgets.

[Villa Lew]

I got over it a long time ago anyway. They had a good 6 game run against us, W4 D2 but then we went on to win 6 in a row. In fact in the 16 games since that good 6 game run for them it's W11 D4 L1 for us. Specifically since the night in question its P20 W11 D6 L3 so we put it right on the pitch where it's most important. And if we talk about humiliation they never did us like the 5-1, when we looked like we were at least 2 divisions better than them.

Yeah the 5-1 was not only my favourite derby win, although the 6-2 at VP in 1960 pushes it close, but one of my favourite VP matches ever. The only defeat in the 16 games, was the League Cup QF match.

Since the first derby in 1887, our record is W 57, D 33, L38.

[curiousorange]

The 5-1 is perhaps the only time at a football match where I've been delirious with joy. I was in the North Lower and every time the ball hit the net the entire row emptied out into one mad mass of supporters. It was ace.

[dave.woodhall]

There used to be a saying that Villa beat Albion beat Blues beat Villa. That's gone now.

[SoccerHQ]

Worth mentioning that the season this game happened is the only time in 48 (about to be 49 given they're not coming up and we're not going down) seasons they finished above us.

It was a strange season. Sir Graham got all sorts of abuse from the start, mainly for taking the job and therefore selling out to help Ellis. He inherited a snakepit with players virtually on strike and it seemed that every time we got a good result we followed it with a bad one.

Everything went against us - Vassell had a goal disallowed at 1-1 at the Sty, then towards the end of the season we were a goal up in stoppage time at Southampton, Ronnie Jonsen skied a clearance that could have gone anywhere but fell perfectly for Kevin Davies. It was a weird final table; another three goals (I think) and we'd have finished ninth.

It was on odd season indeed. Only 7 points separated Boro in 11th and West Ham in 18th. The latter were relegated with 42 points, a total that no other relegated team has come close to achieving ever since, and one that kept us looking over our shoulder right to the end.

His season and a bit in charge was a disaster though unfortunately. Not all of his own making, as he'd inherited late Gregory era transfer mistakes like Kachloul, Hadji and Balaban, but then compounded it by signing the likes of Kinsella, Allback, UDLC and Leonhardsen. Some of that would have been due to Ellis's increasing inability to keep pace with the Premier League, but the season after under Mr Fickle we signed McCann, Sorensen, Solano and Laursen who all had a much more of a positive effect on the squad. Shame really, he should never have come back, something I reckon he might have agreed with, looking back.

I think DOL benefitted by not being Taylor. Taylor's tactics were from a bygone era and man management skills were Remi Garde esque. Gregory's squad had a lot of players over the hill but adding the likes of Kinsella to it made a bad situation worse. We still had likes of Angel, Vassell, Barry, Mellberg, Hendrie, Hitz, Alpay, Delaney...should have been nowhere near relegation. Thinking Enkelmann was anywhere near PL standard a terrible error of judgement too.

Barry wanted to leave in the last months of Gregory....was bizarrely not getting in ahead of Staunton. He played very well under SGT and got called up to England. Hitz again was on fringes of squad and got a proper chance.

Alpay came back from the world cup and wasn't interested anymore and Ronny Johnsen wasn't a bad pickup as a short term replacement.

Think the main problem was Merson went and we had little creativity in central midfield so it was just slinging in endless crosses from someone like De La Cruz who generally did better for us at RB when he moved there under O'Leary.

It was just a strange appointment at the time and very short termist. Weren't we linked with likes of Van Gaal when Gregory walked?

[Bent Neilsens Screamer]

The 5-1 is perhaps the only time at a football match where I've been delirious with joy. I was in the North Lower and every time the ball hit the net the entire row emptied out into one mad mass of supporters. It was ace.

It was tremendous, men against boys, Carew with the ball boy, Mellberg celebrating and all the general piss taking afterwards. We’ve had some good times against them, Cahill, Hourihane and Hutton goals spring to mind.
The highs are exhilarating but the lows, although generally few and far between, are desperate.

[Clark W Griswold]

Like most of you I’ve been to Villa park hundreds of times and the 5-1 was one of the very best, partly stoked by the events of the thread title and a few others around the time.

I only go here and there now but I must admit the 3-1 against Man Utd last October is also right up there. I do hate them considerably more than Blues though. It felt good to get the old feeling back.