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Author Topic: Boxing 2023  (Read 27180 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #75 on: March 27, 2023, 11:18:25 AM »
What are your thoughts on Fury/Usyk not going ahead Dave? Does boxing need some mechanism where these fights aren't solely left in the hands of promoters to try to thrash out a deal. Could there be some sort of "fight each other or you both lose your belts" type rules after a while. The latest episode in the highest profile weight does nothing for the reputation of the sport.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #76 on: March 27, 2023, 11:23:53 AM »
It's ridiculous and one of the reasons why MMA is so popular. You have multiple world champions yet the two best at their weight won't fight each other. It's like Manchester City saying they're joining the Scottish league because they don't want to lose to Arsenal. The trouble is that both fighters will say the other is at fault but if you strip the belts from them they'll still be the best, they'll still not fight and you'll have another four world champions to make the situation even dafter.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 12:23:51 PM by dave.woodhall »

Offline Rory

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #77 on: March 27, 2023, 08:51:39 PM »
I know why the rankings don't work this way, but I wonder if, in situations like this, one of WBA/WBO/IBF could make Fury the mandatory, and WBC could do likewise with Usyk.

It seems silly that we're looking at Dubois being a mandatory when the belts are split between two undefeated fighters.

Offline Risso

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #78 on: March 28, 2023, 05:54:35 PM »
And now all of a sudden they're talking about Fury - Joshua. Quick, look over there!

Offline Rory

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #79 on: March 28, 2023, 09:28:27 PM »
And now all of a sudden they're talking about Fury - Joshua. Quick, look over there!

Unfair distraction for Joshua, considering his career is over if he doesn't win on Saturday.

Edit: just saw it was AJ himself who mentioned it. Idiotic.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2023, 11:47:17 PM by Rory »

Offline Drummond

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2023, 11:24:56 AM »
And now all of a sudden they're talking about Fury - Joshua. Quick, look over there!

Unfair distraction for Joshua, considering his career is over if he doesn't win on Saturday.

Edit: just saw it was AJ himself who mentioned it. Idiotic.

He's desperately trying to stay relevant. It's gone a bit Amir Khan hasn't it? A good fighter with a big punch who will be out-thought by someone with a good boxing brain.

Offline Risso

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2023, 11:33:18 AM »
He's not a particularly good fighter though, is he? Every time he's fought somebody half decent he's either struggled (Klitschko, Parker) or lost (Ruiz, Usyk). It would be a massive fight against Fury, but Fury would absolutely murder him.

Online Monty

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2023, 11:38:16 AM »
It's ridiculous and one of the reasons why MMA is so popular. You have multiple world champions yet the two best at their weight won't fight each other. It's like Manchester City saying they're joining the Scottish league because they don't want to lose to Arsenal. The trouble is that both fighters will say the other is at fault but if you strip the belts from them they'll still be the best, they'll still not fight and you'll have another four world champions to make the situation even after.

Curiously MMA often has the inverse problem - they often burn the talent pool early most of the top available fights are rematches.

Offline Villa Lew

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #83 on: March 29, 2023, 07:41:47 PM »
It would be madness to put Dubois in the ring with Usky, since his comeback, following his defeat to Joe Joyce back in Nov 2020, he's had 4 fights, his last opponent Lerena was Ok the other 3 were 'Punch Bags', which he won with 2TKOs and 2 KOs, total fight time less than 8 mins. He probably needs at least 3 fights against decent opponents, before you should be  considering a fight with Usky.

Offline Rory

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #84 on: March 29, 2023, 10:43:15 PM »
And now all of a sudden they're talking about Fury - Joshua. Quick, look over there!

Unfair distraction for Joshua, considering his career is over if he doesn't win on Saturday.

Edit: just saw it was AJ himself who mentioned it. Idiotic.

He's desperately trying to stay relevant. It's gone a bit Amir Khan hasn't it? A good fighter with a big punch who will be out-thought by someone with a good boxing brain.

Khan's an interesting one. If you were to exclude Prescott, which was a shocking loss, and he'd never taken the Brook fight, which just became a last payday circus, there's no shame in any of his other losses and he had some great wins.

But there's an inescapable feeling of wasted potential.

Joshua has actually done really well with his arguably much more limited talent. It's common for heavyweights to fight into their 40s these days, so he has time, but I don't see where Joshua really goes from here.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #85 on: March 30, 2023, 09:41:33 AM »
And now all of a sudden they're talking about Fury - Joshua. Quick, look over there!

Unfair distraction for Joshua, considering his career is over if he doesn't win on Saturday.

Edit: just saw it was AJ himself who mentioned it. Idiotic.

He's desperately trying to stay relevant. It's gone a bit Amir Khan hasn't it? A good fighter with a big punch who will be out-thought by someone with a good boxing brain.

Khan's an interesting one. If you were to exclude Prescott, which was a shocking loss, and he'd never taken the Brook fight, which just became a last payday circus, there's no shame in any of his other losses and he had some great wins.

But there's an inescapable feeling of wasted potential.

Joshua has actually done really well with his arguably much more limited talent. It's common for heavyweights to fight into their 40s these days, so he has time, but I don't see where Joshua really goes from here.

Khan just wasn't up to the very top level. I suspect Joshua may be the same. He beat Klitschko, which was an impressive win, but I think he'd get beaten by Fury, he lost to Usyk twice, and I reckon Wilder would put him away too.

He needs another big win against one of those guys to stay relevant. I think Frampton did a piece yesterday saying he has to put this guy away on Saturday, and I think he's right.

Offline Risso

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2023, 12:24:14 PM »
Joshua did well against Klitschko, especially when he looked dead on his feet in the middle of the bout after the knockdown in round 6 or 7. But there's no escaping the fact that Klitschko was 41 at the time, and his powers were definitely waning.

Offline Drummond

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2023, 12:27:16 PM »
Joshua did well against Klitschko, especially when he looked dead on his feet in the middle of the bout after the knockdown in round 6 or 7. But there's no escaping the fact that Klitschko was 41 at the time, and his powers were definitely waning.

Absolutely, he wouldn't have beaten Klitschko in prime form.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #88 on: March 31, 2023, 10:14:43 PM »
Channel 5's show kicks off with a thirty second win.

Offline Rory

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Re: Boxing 2023
« Reply #89 on: April 01, 2023, 02:59:24 AM »
Joshua did well against Klitschko, especially when he looked dead on his feet in the middle of the bout after the knockdown in round 6 or 7. But there's no escaping the fact that Klitschko was 41 at the time, and his powers were definitely waning.

Absolutely, he wouldn't have beaten Klitschko in prime form.

Agreed, and I felt Klitschko was far too respectful and avuncular. It was nice to see two fighters showing respect for each other, but from the beginning, Klitschko struck me as a guy welcoming the chance to hand over the baton - or to hand it over to somebody other than Fury, at least - rather than a guy who really wanted to win that fight.

Taking nothing away from AJ, being one of four guys to beat Wlad (without being avenged) is no mean feat. At the same time, AJ has also only lost to Usyk without avenging the defeat.

Barring a very strange turn of events, he won't be facing Usyk again, and it's hard to see him beating Fury. That pretty much leaves him with Wilder as an option, which I would actually make AJ an ever so slight favourite for, personally. I reckon he could get on Wilder's inside and cause damage.

One of the big issues the modern heavyweights face is that they're locked where they are. Usyk is considered a midget at 6ft3 and 16 stone. Imagine someone like Smokin' Joe going up against Fury, giving up 10inches in height, 12 inches in reach & 60lbs in weight?

Fighters in lower divisions can move about a little bit - hover between Middle, Super-Middle & Light-Heavy, or between Welter & Middle - as they develop and to make the biggest fights.

How many natural athletes are there above, say 6ft2, with the speed, reflexes, strength, courage and coordination required to box, for whom boxing is their best/most lucrative bet? It's an easier and more well-trodden path for them to go into NFL, football, basketball, rugby, cricket, where their natural advantage won't be negated by only facing guys of a similar size, and where they don't get punched in the face as often.

Unfortunately, it's a bit of a double-bottleneck, where the guys big and strong enough to challenge at heavyweight have better offers in other sports; and those with the right attributes for boxing just cannot overcome such huge physical disadvantages.

There simply aren't many of these guys out there to face. Lose to a couple of them and your options are pretty fucking limited.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2023, 03:03:38 AM by Rory »

 


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