Next Manager Speculation/Hopes

[Rigadon]

It's a strange mix of self-deprecation and expectation.  I read something Gary Neville was saying about Villa having a long-standing cultural proble, which I think is partly true.  We've also recruited poor managers either side ion Dean Smith.  Anyway, here is the quote:

"For me, it’s never been an easy club, Villa, to change, get the culture right and make the step up, even with the money they’ve spent. They were in the Championship a couple of years ago. To get them to make that jump where West Ham have been or Leicester, no one’s seemed to be able to do that with Villa.

"That’s not a Steven Gerrard problem, that’s a culture problem and a mentality problem for many, many years, so I hope he’s able to sort it out."

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-steven-gerrard-neville-25280039  (do yourself a favour and don't click the link).

[langleylions]

the biggest pisstake is actually wanting a labour government ffs , as if i dont see much of my wages already 🙄

[Scott Nielsen]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

What? Who truthfully expects us to finish above all the London sides? Even if 'eventually'?

[Rory]

the biggest pisstake is actually wanting a labour government ffs , as if i dont see much of my wages already 🙄

Wrong thread?

[Beard82]

Yeah its a very tough gig - but we have appointed some awful unproven managers time and again.

We're a huge club ran like a family business since the 1970s.  That is what the owners have tried to change, and I think there getting there.

I really think it could be as simple as we just appointed someone who was really not ready for the job (and may well never be).

I think possibly CP has too much say in football matters, and the not sure that Lange has any sort of vision other than just trying to source who hes told

[tomd2103]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

Disagree with this.  Think most people would acknowledge that the landscape of the Premier League has changed over the last five years and to now finish in the top six is quite a big ask for any clubs outside the current occupants.  Some maybe not traditionally, but they are massive clubs now, with huge stadiums to boot (except Chelsea), quality squads and it would be a tough ask to overhaul them over the course of a season.

Realistically, I think progress for us over the next few years would be to firmly establish ourselves in the top ten and looking towards that seventh spot and European competition again.  Then,with the ground hopefully redeveloped, we could look to push on again.  Frustratingly, Newcastle seem to have done this in a very short timeframe and without spending vast amounts, so I think it is achievable.

[chrisw1]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate, Algy.

Maybe it depends on age, but I would have thought most Villa fans see us as a top 6 club.  Not on recent performance, but on stature and where we should be.

I don't think there's an expectation that we finish above all London sides, just that we should be in, or at least in the mix for, top 6.

[Rory]

It's a strange mix of self-deprecation and expectation.  I read something Gary Neville was saying about Villa having a long-standing cultural proble, which I think is partly true.  We've also recruited poor managers either side ion Dean Smith.  Anyway, here is the quote:

"For me, it’s never been an easy club, Villa, to change, get the culture right and make the step up, even with the money they’ve spent. They were in the Championship a couple of years ago. To get them to make that jump where West Ham have been or Leicester, no one’s seemed to be able to do that with Villa.

"That’s not a Steven Gerrard problem, that’s a culture problem and a mentality problem for many, many years, so I hope he’s able to sort it out."

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-steven-gerrard-neville-25280039  (do yourself a favour and don't click the link).

I think there's some truth to that and, contrary to what many people claim, a lot of it comes from our willingness (that Dave W regularly points out) to accept failure. We do get angry, we do complain, but we are quite fatalistic in our assumption that no matter what we do, things will go wrong somewhere.

Speaking personally, my expectations are that we hire competent people, try to play some good football, take every competition seriously, and challenge consistently in line with what we spend. If it's true that we're the 7th highest spenders in the league, I'd expect us to hover around 5th-9th most of the time, finish top half more often than not, and be one of the favourites for either of the cups when a few of the Sky 6 get knocked out.

Not exactly outrageous.

[Rigadon]

We're no stepping stone. There's generally only one way your managerial career goes after us. Which is possibly what puts some off more than anything else who might otherwise fancy a go at it.

Said before, but that's just _the way_.  Villa is a hard gig, IMO, because the expectation is that we finish above (for example) all of the London sides.  Maybe not straight away, but eventually.  Finishing, say, 10th/11th is never going to be good enough in B6 - except for exceptional circumstances such as second-season-back-from-the-Championship, which is a place we thankfully rarely visit.  Practically every Villa supporter sees us as at least regulars in the top 6.  A side who should be playing in Europe most seasons.  That's the base level of expectations for most supporters, even if that's not the way the rest of the footballing world sees things.

Disagree with this.  Think most people would acknowledge that the landscape of the Premier League has changed over the last five years and to now finish in the top six is quite a big ask for any clubs outside the current occupants.  Some maybe not traditionally, but they are massive clubs now, with huge stadiums to boot (except Chelsea), quality squads and it would be a tough ask to overhaul them over the course of a season.

Realistically, I think progress for us over the next few years would be to firmly establish ourselves in the top ten and looking towards that seventh spot and European competition again.  Then,with the ground hopefully redeveloped, we could look to push on again.  Frustratingly, Newcastle seem to have done this in a very short timeframe and without spending vast amounts, so I think it is achievable.

I think we're a good manager away from that without signing any nw players.  I personally hope our aim is much higher than 7th in 3 years time, but I admire your patience!

[Rigadon]

And people were saying 10 years ago that breaking into 'the big 4' as it was then was unrealistic.  Now it's the 'top 6'.  There is always an elite set of clubs.  We should be one of them and until we actually start acting like that (Gerrard should now be gone but isn't) it will never ever change. 

[LeeB]

the biggest pisstake is actually wanting a labour government ffs , as if i dont see much of my wages already 🙄

Wrong thread?

Wrong head

[ChicagoLion]

the biggest pisstake is actually wanting a labour government ffs , as if i dont see much of my wages already 🙄

Wrong thread?

Wrong head

Its been a long day

[Rory]

And people were saying 10 years ago that breaking into 'the big 4' as it was then was unrealistic.  Now it's the 'top 6'.  There is always an elite set of clubs.  We should be one of them and until we actually start acting like that (Gerrard should now be gone but isn't) it will never ever change.

I'd say that's aspiration rather than expectation though, to be fair.

[pauliewalnuts]

We have the look of a big club, we have the history that a lot of them don't, we have the owners with the requisite money to make a big club, and we talk about being a big club a lot (as do others when discussing us).

We just never actually look like a big club on the pitch.

The meek acceptance of utter mediocrity is what does it. It just seems to never stop.

At how many other clubs, with the record he has with us, would Gerrard still be in place and seemingly untouchable?

And that's not just how many big clubs, how many top flight clubs, full stop?

[dave.woodhall]

To paraphrase someone either here or on Twitter, five years in and we're still talking about a project.