Next Manager Speculation/Hopes

[cdbearsfan]

Your posts inspired me to check and it turns out Ashley Young is now our joint top goalscorer. 😂

[LeonW]

Your posts inspired me to check and it turns out Ashley Young is now our joint top goalscorer. 😂

And probably up there as a best player this season at 37. Jesus.

[cdbearsfan]

Player of the Season so far for me.

[LeonW]

Player of the Season so far for me.

Me too. His goal on Monday was a great moment as well. I was against re-signing him in 2021 but he’s shown what he can contribute and certainly proven me wrong. We’re better as a whole when he’s on.

[brontebilly]

We're definitely missing Kamara. He was doing what none of our other midfielders can do. Part of the problem now is that the midfield 3 are all having to do a bit of the defensive donkey work which isn't really their game.

Since his injury we've not really been tested at all to see how much we miss him. We've not struggled to get a foothold yet in a game as we've seen against Forrest and Leeds. The problems are mainly with the offensive side of the game and the current Bruceball tactics of just hoping 'for a bit of magic' to win a game.

He was our best player until he got injured, he was breaking attacks and setting up counter attacks. So yes we miss him particularly the way Luiz went walk about against Forest.
I am not justifying the shit performances by this Gerrard team but We definitely look better with him.

It's a myth that Kamara was our best player pre injury, granted it might be hard to pick a best player...but he was dreadful v Bournemouth, Palace, Bolton, Arsenal. I'm struggling to recall West Ham bar Rice dominating the second half. City after a poor first half he was ok. Everton his best game?

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

[Risso]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

[LeonW]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

I don’t think that’s any sort of context or explanation though, Risso. It would be entirely unreasonable and unrealistic for any manager to walk in to a job and have 22 brand new players that he personally selected ready. Good managers improve players. Those XG figures speak for themselves; a side not difficult to score against and one that doesn’t really score.

[Toronto Villa]

We're definitely missing Kamara. He was doing what none of our other midfielders can do. Part of the problem now is that the midfield 3 are all having to do a bit of the defensive donkey work which isn't really their game.

Surely if we have 3 donkeys in midfield wouldn’t that be better than I guy doing the donkey work? Just sayin’ like.

[Rory]

Player of the Season so far for me.

Me too. His goal on Monday was a great moment as well. I was against re-signing him in 2021 but he’s shown what he can contribute and certainly proven me wrong. We’re better as a whole when he’s on.

And me. Full credit to Ash.

[Risso]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

I don’t think that’s any sort of context or explanation though, Risso. It would be entirely unreasonable and unrealistic for any manager to walk in to a job and have 22 brand new players that he personally selected ready. Good managers improve players. Those XG figures speak for themselves; a side not difficult to score against and one that doesn’t really score.

The context is though that this is exactly the same team at the moment that finished 11th at best under Smith, with the exception that Grealish has been replaced by Coutinho. Who after a bright start, very clearly isn't anywhere near as effective. So while we should be doing better, I still think midtable is the best any manager is going to get out of this lot. We needed a new striker, and probably a new number 8 at the very least, and didn't get them.

[boozey182]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

I don’t think that’s any sort of context or explanation though, Risso. It would be entirely unreasonable and unrealistic for any manager to walk in to a job and have 22 brand new players that he personally selected ready. Good managers improve players. Those XG figures speak for themselves; a side not difficult to score against and one that doesn’t really score.

The context is though that this is exactly the same team at the moment that finished 11th at best under Smith, with the exception that Grealish has been replaced by Coutinho. Who after a bright start, very clearly isn't anywhere near as effective. So while we should be doing better, I still think midtable is the best any manager is going to get out of this lot. We needed a new striker, and probably a new number 8 at the very least, and didn't get them.

Could it be (and I don't think we'll ever have a definitive answer for this so it's probably a pointless question) that Dean had one special talent and knew how to get the best out of him? Gerrard has a special talent and is making him worse every week. It was ultimately Dean's undoing, because when Grealish got injured/left we didn't know what else to do, but there was a plan there - it was just completely dependent on one player which wasn't sustainable.

I think the biggest problem a lot of people have with Gerrard is that he doesn't seem to have a plan - or at least not an effective one. It was the same when we didn't have any injuries. I don't think anybody could say that our poor start to the season has been as a result of Carlos getting injured in our second game, or Digne and Kamara getting injured in our sixth(?). In fact, Mings and Young (who have come in for two of those) have been our best two players this season. Kamara is a different one - I love him as a player and think he'll be very good for us. We do miss him (I miss watching him play) but again, it's not like our other midfielders had been bombing on and getting in the box every game before he was injured and now they have to sit back. We've probably controlled games more since he got injured - more down to the opposition than us, obviously.

[LeonW]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

I don’t think that’s any sort of context or explanation though, Risso. It would be entirely unreasonable and unrealistic for any manager to walk in to a job and have 22 brand new players that he personally selected ready. Good managers improve players. Those XG figures speak for themselves; a side not difficult to score against and one that doesn’t really score.

The context is though that this is exactly the same team at the moment that finished 11th at best under Smith, with the exception that Grealish has been replaced by Coutinho. Who after a bright start, very clearly isn't anywhere near as effective. So while we should be doing better, I still think midtable is the best any manager is going to get out of this lot. We needed a new striker, and probably a new number 8 at the very least, and didn't get them.

11th on a very decent 55 points, which on the basis of the last 10 years average would have had us more 8th/9th. So my argument has  always been that either Smith over achieved with largely the same crop of players or the current manager is not getting the most out of them. I think we’ll only know the reality of how good the players are under the next manager but one thing for sure is that Smith improved a vast majority of the players we had and Gerrard is not getting the same from them. I’d take 50 points even accounting for the injuries Gerrard has had (which is only 5 more points then last season). But he’s not going to reach either tally with the current performances and tactical set up. In fact, i’d say we’re actually heading into a relegation battle at present. We’ve thrown away opportunities against weaker teams and it’s going to come back to bite us this season.

[chrisw1]

11th on a very decent 55 points, which on the basis of the last 10 years average would have had us more 8th/9th. So my argument has  always been that either Smith over achieved with largely the same crop of players or the current manager is not getting the most out of them. I think we’ll only know the reality of how good the players are under the next manager but one thing for sure is that Smith improved a vast majority of the players we had and Gerrard is not getting the same from them. I’d take 50 points even accounting for the injuries Gerrard has had (which is only 5 more points then last season). But he’s not going to reach either tally with the current performances and tactical set up. In fact, i’d say we’re actually heading into a relegation battle at present. We’ve thrown away opportunities against weaker teams and it’s going to come back to bite us this season.

Smith overachieved or Grealish overachieved?

Smith did a great job with the resources he had, we owe him a huge debt.  But the truth is he never got Villa playing well when Jack wasn't in the team.

I'm not defending Gerrard, I think he's shite.  But when comparing him with Smith and praising Smith for doing better with the same players, it needs to be considered in that context.

[LeonW]

I'm not saying he's a bad player but he was definitely struggling in admittedly a shit show of a setup. Injuries are a bit of a smokescreen for the current problems as Young, Mings and Luiz are arguably performing better than Gerrard's signings.

The only Gerrard signing starting games at the moment is Coutinho.

I don’t think that’s any sort of context or explanation though, Risso. It would be entirely unreasonable and unrealistic for any manager to walk in to a job and have 22 brand new players that he personally selected ready. Good managers improve players. Those XG figures speak for themselves; a side not difficult to score against and one that doesn’t really score.

The context is though that this is exactly the same team at the moment that finished 11th at best under Smith, with the exception that Grealish has been replaced by Coutinho. Who after a bright start, very clearly isn't anywhere near as effective. So while we should be doing better, I still think midtable is the best any manager is going to get out of this lot. We needed a new striker, and probably a new number 8 at the very least, and didn't get them.

Could it be (and I don't think we'll ever have a definitive answer for this so it's probably a pointless question) that Dean had one special talent and knew how to get the best out of him? Gerrard has a special talent and is making him worse every week. It was ultimately Dean's undoing, because when Grealish got injured/left we didn't know what else to do, but there was a plan there - it was just completely dependent on one player which wasn't sustainable.

I think the biggest problem a lot of people have with Gerrard is that he doesn't seem to have a plan - or at least not an effective one. It was the same when we didn't have any injuries. I don't think anybody could say that our poor start to the season has been as a result of Carlos getting injured in our second game, or Digne and Kamara getting injured in our sixth(?). In fact, Mings and Young (who have come in for two of those) have been our best two players this season. Kamara is a different one - I love him as a player and think he'll be very good for us. We do miss him (I miss watching him play) but again, it's not like our other midfielders had been bombing on and getting in the box every game before he was injured and now they have to sit back. We've probably controlled games more since he got injured - more down to the opposition than us, obviously.

I agree. Smith turned Grealish into a £100m player. No other manager has got the same level of performance from him. But it took building a team largely around maxisming his talent to realise that potential and it came at a cost when he was absent injured, which was often. But Grealish didn’t act in isolation as no player can in the game today.

Gerrard had a plan and it got found out very quickly competing in a league with better players and better managers. He had a variation of 2 up top which worked for a couple of games before being found out...and that’s it. He’s had 2 transfer windows and full pre-season to improve on that. We haven’t seen improvement. In fact, we’ve got worse and it’s just a matter as to when the axe falls. I don’t think we’re asking the Earth here. But we’ve got to doing better than this.

[LeonW]

11th on a very decent 55 points, which on the basis of the last 10 years average would have had us more 8th/9th. So my argument has  always been that either Smith over achieved with largely the same crop of players or the current manager is not getting the most out of them. I think we’ll only know the reality of how good the players are under the next manager but one thing for sure is that Smith improved a vast majority of the players we had and Gerrard is not getting the same from them. I’d take 50 points even accounting for the injuries Gerrard has had (which is only 5 more points then last season). But he’s not going to reach either tally with the current performances and tactical set up. In fact, i’d say we’re actually heading into a relegation battle at present. We’ve thrown away opportunities against weaker teams and it’s going to come back to bite us this season.

Smith overachieved or Grealish overachieved?

Smith did a great job with the resources he had, we owe him a huge debt.  But the truth is he never got Villa playing well when Jack wasn't in the team.

I'm not defending Gerrard, I think he's shite.  But when comparing him with Smith and praising Smith for doing better with the same players, it needs to be considered in that context.

Or he got the most out of Grealish, a player who has never performed at the same level for any other manager. His mistake was relying on an injury prone player. Gerrard has better and more options than Smith had so should be able to deliver more. In the game today more so than ever before, one player alone cannot solely make the difference without supporting team mates. Coutinho reached a higher level than Grealish in his career to date, but just sticking him on the pitch isn’t leading to much.