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Author Topic: Mediocrity.  (Read 13268 times)

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #105 on: May 21, 2022, 09:53:07 AM »
Breaking our transfer record two seasons in a row with Sasa Curcic and Stan Collymore were huge mistakes. We totally lost momentum and although we signed some good players between 98 and 2002 we also lost quite a few. Doug then pretty much gave up by 03 and took 3 years to sell us.

I was living in Wigan and working for the firm that did Bolton's travel arrangements at the time, and saw a lot of Bolton games as a result. Curcic was absolutely brilliant for them, a bit like Kinkladze for Manchester City in that he could run with the ball seemingly glued to his feet and go past people at will. I was hugely excited by his signing, which was only heightened by his debut in which he was absolutely superb.

Ssimilarly with Collymore, he was seen as the fabled "last piece in the jigsaw" and a real statement of intent. That it all went so wrong, is still a massive shame. For two seasons under Sir Brian we looked absolutely brilliant, and those two had the talent to really make us contenders. Sigh.

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #106 on: May 21, 2022, 10:00:42 AM »
Lambert made sense at the time.

As did David O'Leary at the time. I feel sick just typing that, but his first season was very good indeed, especially the second half, and even in his second season we were top 6 at the start of December. All massively down hill after that, the pug nosed twat.

Online dave.woodhall

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #107 on: May 21, 2022, 10:03:46 AM »
Breaking our transfer record two seasons in a row with Sasa Curcic and Stan Collymore were huge mistakes. We totally lost momentum and although we signed some good players between 98 and 2002 we also lost quite a few. Doug then pretty much gave up by 03 and took 3 years to sell us.

I was living in Wigan and working for the firm that did Bolton's travel arrangements at the time, and saw a lot of Bolton games as a result. Curcic was absolutely brilliant for them, a bit like Kinkladze for Manchester City in that he could run with the ball seemingly glued to his feet and go past people at will. I was hugely excited by his signing, which was only heightened by his debut in which he was absolutely superb.

Ssimilarly with Collymore, he was seen as the fabled "last piece in the jigsaw" and a real statement of intent. That it all went so wrong, is still a massive shame. For two seasons under Sir Brian we looked absolutely brilliant, and those two had the talent to really make us contenders. Sigh.

They had an even greater talent of ruining the dressing room. Collymore, Curcic, Milosevic and Bosnich in the same team. No wonder the manager went grey.
 

Offline Meanwood Villa

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #108 on: May 21, 2022, 10:39:17 AM »
Lambert made sense at the time.

As did David O'Leary at the time. I feel sick just typing that, but his first season was very good indeed, especially the second half, and even in his second season we were top 6 at the start of December. All massively down hill after that, the pug nosed twat.

I think it's perfectly acceptable to hold both the view that O'Leary is a self serving cocksocket of the highest order and that he did well in his first season with us

Offline Meanwood Villa

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #109 on: May 21, 2022, 10:43:06 AM »
Also agree that Lambert looked a good appointment on paper. Liverpool got Rodgers at the same time and I thought we'd got the better deal. Close run thing who I detest more out of Lambert and O'Leary but I think Lambert edges it because the football was more soul destroying.

Interesting points made about appointing Gregory and it being a mistake. I think I like him more now than I did when he was our manager. It always seemed like he preferred dull and functional over exciting and innovative. Not unlike O'Neill in that respect.

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #110 on: May 21, 2022, 10:50:17 AM »
Also agree that Lambert looked a good appointment on paper. Liverpool got Rodgers at the same time and I thought we'd got the better deal. Close run thing who I detest more out of Lambert and O'Leary but I think Lambert edges it because the football was more soul destroying.

Interesting points made about appointing Gregory and it being a mistake. I think I like him more now than I did when he was our manager. It always seemed like he preferred dull and functional over exciting and innovative. Not unlike O'Neill in that respect.

It was a mixed bag with Gregory. True he signed dullards like Steve Stone, Steve Watson and Alan Thompson, but he also bought in Merson, Carbone and Angel.

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #111 on: May 21, 2022, 01:19:15 PM »


Gregory was fine for first 18 months. Was in danger of getting sacked when we had that poor run in early 1999 season but then we responded with incredible run of form that should've got us to two cup finals and also a solid league position.

At the start he thought big with the signings but mistake was giving him a new contract just before the cup final (reminds me of Arteta getting one and Arsenal immediately implode to miss out on top 4).

Should've waited and perhaps we could've still kicked on after the trauma of the Chelsea match with new manager and group of players. Instead we've never recovered at all from losing that game.

22 years today btw, a few 6th place finishes is all we've mustered in the league since then and two cup finals.

Gregory started to fall apart after his first Christmas, at the time when Stan went AWOL. We had a bad end to his first full season and the start of the next one, then we recovered to get to the cup final. From then on it was, as you say, a case of treading water. He did okay, and in hindsight he did a better job than we realised given that he was dealing with a chairman who was waiting for him to do something sackable. The trouble was that we were in such a good position and for the first time in decades money was available yet he spent so much time, as he put it, fighting fires and most of the money on average or past-it players. A more imaginative appointment who made imaginative signings and we could have been well set.

IIRC when we sacked SBL Ruud Gullit was available and Evening Mail polls were having him as landslide favourite.

He went to Newcastle and totally flopped.

Did Gregory really waste as much money as O'Neill?

In the early days it was exciting getting in big time players like Merson and Dublin and David James was a superb signing at 1.5m to replace Bosnich. Also had Delaney coming in at about 400 grand who was a good player for us and Boateng at 4.5m was good value for a few seasons aswell.

Think problem was the squad punts like Alan Thompson and Steve Watson didn't offer much at all but name me a Villa manager in last 30 years who hasn't signed dud squad players at some point.

Where I thought Gregory was really unlucky was losing Yorke six months into his reign. Can you imagine him playing slightly off Dion Dublin for a full season? And we also lost Bosnich to injury for half of 98/99 which meant our defence starting shipping 2-3 on regular basis.

I still see O'Neill era as more of a wasted opportunity given what we were spending in that 3 years. We all knew Man. City were coming so we really needed to get into CL at least once as Spurs in that period to give us some chance of building a side capable of staying top 6.

It's a bit like Grealish two years ago having to pass the ball to Borja Baston or Jota, too often we have a world class player in the team and the quality simply isn't there around them. Signing Darren Bent and then losing Young and Downing six months later is another example.

To stop being mediocre we need to keep signing good players when we have some so DM is critical this summer, let's hope we get a good one in.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 01:26:33 PM by SoccerHQ »

Offline SoccerHQ

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #112 on: May 21, 2022, 01:24:11 PM »
Lambert made sense at the time.

Brendan Rodgers was also available that summer although think Liverpool quickly tapped him up.

Lambert was decent but six months later Southampton got in Pochettino who was completely unknown to UK audience at the time but completely transformed them so that was example of time of forward thinking club who thought outside the box and had 4-5 really good seasons as a reward.

Too often we go for safe appointments which restricts us. Even Gerrard I think could be deemed as safe given Purslow knows him so well.

I think this side is crying out for an experienced continental coach to come in and implement a modern style to it, perhaps that's the plan post Gerrard. Let's hope we're not miles off it in premier league when time comes.

Offline eamonn

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #113 on: May 21, 2022, 01:33:11 PM »
I doubt there is a plan post-Gerrard. Feels more that we've given him the keys to the place to do whatever the fcuk he wants.

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #114 on: May 21, 2022, 01:39:54 PM »
Lambert made sense at the time.

Brendan Rodgers was also available that summer although think Liverpool quickly tapped him up.

Lambert was decent but six months later Southampton got in Pochettino who was completely unknown to UK audience at the time but completely transformed them so that was example of time of forward thinking club who thought outside the box and had 4-5 really good seasons as a reward.

Too often we go for safe appointments which restricts us. Even Gerrard I think could be deemed as safe given Purslow knows him so well.

I think this side is crying out for an experienced continental coach to come in and implement a modern style to it, perhaps that's the plan post Gerrard. Let's hope we're not miles off it in premier league when time comes.

There's no guarantee with any coach. Look at Man U, rightly got rid of OGS, only to replace him with an experienced continental coach who did even worse. Then there's Mourinho and Nuno at Spurs, Benitez and Ancelotti at Everton, Ranieri at Watford, Bielsa at Leeds, Pellegrini at West Ham, etc etc. There's no guarantees at all, and I'd strongly argue that a good ownership team is the most important part of having a successful club.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2022, 01:43:29 PM »
I doubt there is a plan post-Gerrard. Feels more that we've given him the keys to the place to do whatever the fcuk he wants.

It does indeed feel like that.

Offline clash city rocker

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #116 on: May 21, 2022, 02:09:44 PM »
I doubt there is a plan post-Gerrard. Feels more that we've given him the keys to the place to do whatever the fcuk he wants.

It does indeed feel like that.

I think he will have some testing kpi's set for him. People like our owners don't give management a carte blanche and put up with them under achieving

Offline Chris Smith

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #117 on: May 21, 2022, 02:43:09 PM »
I doubt there is a plan post-Gerrard. Feels more that we've given him the keys to the place to do whatever the fcuk he wants.

It does indeed feel like that.

I think he will have some testing kpi's set for him. People like our owners don't give management a carte blanche and put up with them under achieving

We’ll see, and hopefully it’s not a problem we have to address, but you get a hint that Purslow is a bit in awe of Gerrard and he’ll get more leeway than others might have.

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #118 on: May 21, 2022, 03:43:59 PM »
I doubt there is a plan post-Gerrard. Feels more that we've given him the keys to the place to do whatever the fcuk he wants.

None of the top 6 clubs or indeed any other appear to have a plan for what happens when the current man in charge departs, and why would they? Other than "appoint a good manager" what is it that you think they could do? Unless your team is Watford, you have no way of knowing how the current guy is going to pan out or how long he'll be in charge, or who might be available once he's gone.

Offline Flin5tone

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #119 on: May 21, 2022, 04:38:50 PM »
The Football Club is being used by Purslow to achieve his own personal desires. Bringing in Steven and he looked like a child in a sweetshop when he announced Philipe to the "most dedicated of our supporters" at the awards night.

 

 


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