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Author Topic: Mediocrity.  (Read 5531 times)

Online Ian.

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #45 on: May 20, 2022, 07:21:12 AM »
This is our 2nd season of mediocrity in a decade.

Excellent point.

Itís slow progress, much slower than we all would like to see but itís a good few step away from stinking the league out.


Offline Drummond

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2022, 07:32:03 AM »
Too many ordinary players. Watkins, McGinn, Luiz, nowhere near good enough.

If we get offered stupid money for those, I'd let all three go.

Me too, although I like McGinn and Watkins they are being linked with moves for fees way above their value. Luiz I do not rate, and would take the money and run if anyone offered to buy him.

Think the real challenge is in shifting on Wesley (surely our worst ever big money signing), Trez, El Ghazi, Traore, Sanson and other fringe players that are unlikely to see much gametime next season.

You see I don't agree with this valuation thing. Some of our fans see the worst rather than the best. Can we name better players worth less?

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2022, 07:32:55 AM »
Gerrard said that after thirty seven games the league position doesn't lie, 14th is where we're at. He says he knows that we need to strengthen, I would not be unhappy to see some of the so called better players be sold at decent prices, the likes of McGinn and Luiz, simply because I see little improvement to come in them. Gerrard has to be given a chance at least to the middle of next season.

Offline algy

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2022, 07:37:41 AM »
Listening to Garry Thompson on WM last night on the way back from the ""bore fest" he said that for Villa to progress they need a whole new spine of the team, Centre Halves, DM and a striker - that is going to cost a lot of money

The players we have now are okay for mid table to 15th in the league, if we are to really have a go at getting into a European competition in the next 2 seasons (5 year plan) we do need far better quality than we have.

Hopefully the owners will back the manager in the transfer market.
I tend to agree with Sid/Garry Thompson on this. It's been a slightly disappointing season - not "Gerrard out" level, but the side gross like it's taken a step back for the first time in a few seasons.

Think the squad will need to be rebuilt over the next couple of seasons of we're to break in to Europe. I think we could actually challenge West Ham with a few relatively small changes, but getting in to the group of sides above those needs some radical changes & players who are well above the level of all bar maybe half a dozen players in the current squad.

Offline Meanwood Villa

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2022, 08:07:36 AM »
This is our 2nd season of mediocrity in a decade.

Beautifully concise and entirely accurate. If anything, the first half of last season was against the trend. Like it or not, we're still re-establishing ourselves in the top division.

After Gerrard's initial success, some people were posting that they expected a top 8 finish. It's not been three years since the PO final. We have made huge progress.

I'm not a fan of using one of our historic low points as a barometer. It's a bit like comparing ourselves to the Blues. However it did get me thinking about how we have performed compared to other promoted teams. Based on last five years:
2017
Newcastle 10th 13th 13th 12th 10th-13th
Brighton 15th 17th 15th 16th 9th-13th
Huddersfield 16th 20th
2018
Wolves 7th 7th 13th 8th-10th
Cardiff 18th
Fulham 19th
2019
Norwich 20th
Us 17th 11th 14th
Sheff U 9th 20th
2020
Leeds 9th 17th-18th
Albion 19th
Fulham 18th
2021
Norwich 19th-20th
Watford 19th-20th
Brentford 10th-12th

So while we have clearly made a better fist of things than most it is quite sobering to see we are about the level of Mike Ashley's Newcastle and worse than Wolves.

Online Gareth

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2022, 08:21:36 AM »
I think mediocre describes pretty much every team below the top 5/6 this seasonÖfor us we are top end of the spending charts of those below the top 6 and our home record which the majority judge us on has been largely appalling.

I am still where I was after the Watford defeat that other than Martinez, Digne, Ramsey & now Coutinho Iíd be perfectly fine with any of the other seniors being sold/replaced in the summer.

Team lacks height & true physicality which is why continually we give away stupid fouls in areas of the pitch where we shouldnít. 

Offline Ads

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2022, 08:39:39 AM »
We've finished with our 2nd highest points tally since 2011. We've finished midtable for the 2nd time since then and achieved a boring end of no relegation fight and no European fight.

The club has to now kick on. But the idea we have been mediocre for years is fanciful. We've been shit for a decade, following a brief bit of mediocrity, before being pretty good actually.

Online Beard82

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2022, 08:57:03 AM »
This is our 2nd season of mediocrity in a decade.

Beautifully concise and entirely accurate. If anything, the first half of last season was against the trend. Like it or not, we're still re-establishing ourselves in the top division.

After Gerrard's initial success, some people were posting that they expected a top 8 finish. It's not been three years since the PO final. We have made huge progress.

I'm not a fan of using one of our historic low points as a barometer. It's a bit like comparing ourselves to the Blues. However it did get me thinking about how we have performed compared to other promoted teams. Based on last five years:
2017
Newcastle 10th 13th 13th 12th 10th-13th
Brighton 15th 17th 15th 16th 9th-13th
Huddersfield 16th 20th
2018
Wolves 7th 7th 13th 8th-10th
Cardiff 18th
Fulham 19th
2019
Norwich 20th
Us 17th 11th 14th
Sheff U 9th 20th
2020
Leeds 9th 17th-18th
Albion 19th
Fulham 18th
2021
Norwich 19th-20th
Watford 19th-20th
Brentford 10th-12th

So while we have clearly made a better fist of things than most it is quite sobering to see we are about the level of Mike Ashley's Newcastle and worse than Wolves.
I think thatís a really interesting post - it shows how difficult it Is to make promotion stick

But it also makes you see that itís not impossible.  Think this next season is a big turning point we need to see some progress as otherwise all our big talk starts to sound very hollow

Online cdbearsfan

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2022, 09:26:39 AM »
We are also spending more money than any recently promoted side ever, I imagine. There can be no excuses for not challenging for Europe next season. We shouldn't be finishing below nonsense clubs like Brentford and Brighton.

Offline algy

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2022, 09:32:26 AM »
We've finished with our 2nd highest points tally since 2011. We've finished midtable for the 2nd time since then and achieved a boring end of no relegation fight and no European fight.

The club has to now kick on. But the idea we have been mediocre for years is fanciful. We've been shit for a decade, following a brief bit of mediocrity, before being pretty good actually.
Yep, this. Mediocrity is a massive improvement on the majority of the last decade or so. Not saying that I'm overly enamoured by how this season has panned out, but a bit of perspective is needed here. We also needed to completely rebuild the squad in the 1st season back, then effectively rebuild on top *that* base last season to not be embroiled in another relegation battle.

This season has been a bit disappointing because we've not taken the next step, but in honesty that bothers me far less. Joe leaving was a huge blow & always going to end up with us struggling to move forward.

Don't get me wrong, 14th shouldn't be, and isn't, acceptable for a club like ourselves. But it's also far from the outright disaster given we were playing the likes of Rotherham 3 years ago.

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2022, 09:34:24 AM »
Well Gerrard's points per game if extrapolated over the course of the season would have us on 51 points. Not brilliant, but would see us in 8th this season on the same points as Wolves.

Offline Rigadon

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2022, 09:38:17 AM »
It really does depend on what mediocre means to you.  Is top half good enough to be better than mediocre?  Not for me.  If our aim isn't CL (and please, a bloody cup win along the way), then I don't really see the point in our owners putting the money they have into the club.   Top 8?  Nah, that's still mediocre.  Top 6, close but still ultimately a bit underwhelming (remember the MON years feeling like an anticlimax when we didn't make top 4). 

Like others have said though, we have been much less than mediocre for a decade, so progress is still progress.   

Offline Risso

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2022, 09:49:20 AM »
Maybe only a minor point but I thought it was really poor that Purslow and Lange didn't stick around to watch the lap of appreciation last night. They disappeared in about a minute after the final whistle, having sat there looking glum all evening. The only club related person who waited and applauded the players was Sir Brian.

Online Sexual Ealing

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2022, 09:51:24 AM »
Maybe only a minor point but I thought it was really poor that Purslow and Lange didn't stick around to watch the lap of appreciation last night. They disappeared in about a minute after the final whistle, having sat there looking glum all evening. The only club related person who waited and applauded the players was Sir Brian.

Perhaps one (or both) of them is off shortly?

Offline kippaxvilla2

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Re: Mediocrity.
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2022, 09:53:01 AM »
Weíve got billionaire owners that donít spend billions in the same way the sky six do.  Our level of spending gets you Ollie Watkins.  Still learning his trade at this level nothing bad just never going to get you to where you want to be.  Coutinho is the game changer and we need a few more like him.

 


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