Gerrard In or Out?

[levico]

I’m getting the distinct feeling that this is all going to end badly, either this season or next.

[Brazilian Villain]

Tim Sherwood had never managed a club before. Gerrard has. I know some will immediately point to Scotland and say it’s a two club system, but the Rangers he managed that still had to catch up with Celtic and ultimately win the title. Every manager starts somewhere. Every manager makes errors and has to learn from them. Whether it is the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Pep etc at the top of the food chain, or anyone lower down they all grew from what they learned. Why should we be just tossing aside someone at this stage. And there is literally no guarantee whatsoever that another more reputable, more experienced manager delivers immediate results and success.

I’m not here giving Gerrard a pass. He needs to improve and in this game quickly. And results will determine his time with us. But for anyone to consider firing him or calling him the next Tim Sherwood after a few months is in my opinion very short sighted.

Spurs, arguably a much bigger club than Rangers? 

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

[berneboy]

I’m getting the distinct feeling that this is all going to end badly, either this season or next.

Me too.
And expenditure will hold us back a season or two.

.. and then we go again!

[LeonW]

Tim Sherwood had never managed a club before. Gerrard has. I know some will immediately point to Scotland and say it’s a two club system, but the Rangers he managed that still had to catch up with Celtic and ultimately win the title. Every manager starts somewhere. Every manager makes errors and has to learn from them. Whether it is the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Pep etc at the top of the food chain, or anyone lower down they all grew from what they learned. Why should we be just tossing aside someone at this stage. And there is literally no guarantee whatsoever that another more reputable, more experienced manager delivers immediate results and success.

I’m not here giving Gerrard a pass. He needs to improve and in this game quickly. And results will determine his time with us. But for anyone to consider firing him or calling him the next Tim Sherwood after a few months is in my opinion very short sighted.

Spurs, arguably a much bigger club than Rangers? 

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

Sorry but i’m biting on this one; what are you basing that view on with regards the Old Firm?

[Brazilian Villain]

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

Sorry but i’m biting on this one; what are you basing that view on with regards the Old Firm?

People judge the size of clubs in different ways (often depending on what suits their agenda) but I would say both Old Firm teams are way bigger than all but one or two PL clubs (unless your criterion is access to PL TV money). If for example the metric you're using is how many fans they would take to a European final in mainland Europe then I'd argue they're probably 2 of the 3 biggest clubs in the UK. I am curious which English clubs you think are bigger than the 2 Glasgow clubs.

[algy]

Tim Sherwood had never managed a club before. Gerrard has. I know some will immediately point to Scotland and say it’s a two club system, but the Rangers he managed that still had to catch up with Celtic and ultimately win the title. Every manager starts somewhere. Every manager makes errors and has to learn from them. Whether it is the likes of Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, Pep etc at the top of the food chain, or anyone lower down they all grew from what they learned. Why should we be just tossing aside someone at this stage. And there is literally no guarantee whatsoever that another more reputable, more experienced manager delivers immediate results and success.

I’m not here giving Gerrard a pass. He needs to improve and in this game quickly. And results will determine his time with us. But for anyone to consider firing him or calling him the next Tim Sherwood after a few months is in my opinion very short sighted.

Spurs, arguably a much bigger club than Rangers? 

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

Nah, not having that.

Depends on your definition of what a 'big club' is I guess, and for sure I'd put both Celtic and "Rangers" in the big club category, but they're dragged down by playing in the Scottish League. We were a bigger pull *as a Championship club* than Celtic, as evidenced by Super John McGinn.

Right now, I'd put money on any of the PL bottom 3 being a more attractive proposition than playing for the Old Firm.

[LeonW]

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

Sorry but i’m biting on this one; what are you basing that view on with regards the Old Firm?

People judge the size of clubs in different ways (often depending on what suits their agenda) but I would say both Old Firm teams are way bigger than all but one or two PL clubs (unless your criterion is access to PL TV money). If for example the metric you're using is how many fans they would take to a European final in mainland Europe then I'd argue they're probably 2 of the 3 biggest clubs in the UK. I am curious which English clubs you think are bigger than the 2 Glasgow clubs.

Unfortunately - and as much as it really pains me to say it- Chelsea would definitely be one. Those two European Cups they have in their trophy cabinet are pretty compelling evidence for me, though, relatively speaking, they’ve only been a real force for a shortish period.

I wouldn’t go by fans you can take away mind. Eintract Frankfurt took a shed load away to the Nou Camp last week but I wouldn’t consider them a big club. There are probably other clubs in England that would say they could take a shed load on tour (like Newcastle?) but again, it’s not enough.

I’d say European trophies in the cabinet. It is a debate for sure though.

[Sexual Ealing]

Not a chance. Both of the Old Firm clubs are bigger than anyone in Premier League except Man Ure and possibly Liverpool. Then you add in the pressure on a manager that comes with being the focus of media attention in Glasgow and there's no comparison.

Sorry but i’m biting on this one; what are you basing that view on with regards the Old Firm?

People judge the size of clubs in different ways (often depending on what suits their agenda) but I would say both Old Firm teams are way bigger than all but one or two PL clubs (unless your criterion is access to PL TV money). If for example the metric you're using is how many fans they would take to a European final in mainland Europe then I'd argue they're probably 2 of the 3 biggest clubs in the UK. I am curious which English clubs you think are bigger than the 2 Glasgow clubs.

Through gritted teeth, I agree with this.

Not to say, though, that managing either one of them (alone) is sufficient preparation for managing in a competitive league. MON was ready because of his Leicester experience - as was Rodgers after Liverpool and Swansea. Gerrard wasn't/isn't.

[ChicagoLion]

This conversation keeps turning up, it depend what someone means by big club and there is no consensus on that, so it’s a bit pointless.

[Brazilian Villain]

Nah, not having that.

Depends on your definition of what a 'big club' is I guess, and for sure I'd put both Celtic and "Rangers" in the big club category, but they're dragged down by playing in the Scottish League. We were a bigger pull *as a Championship club* than Celtic, as evidenced by Super John McGinn.

Right now, I'd put money on any of the PL bottom 3 being a more attractive proposition than playing for the Old Firm.

Well we wouldn't have got McGinn if Celtic had gone to 2.75m for him instead of lowballing Hibs at 2.25m.

I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your post but that is down to PL clubs having more money. Bournemouth in the PL might have had more 'pull' than us in the Championship or Sunderland in League 1 but no one would argue they're a bigger club. As I alluded to, the PL money distorts things but I would say the Old Firm are bigger clubs using most of the other common metrics.

[Beard82]

Big is also a difficult word - I would see that - in the scheme of things rangers and Celtic are like villa, Everton and forest - famous clubs with big supporter base and amazing histories.  Or like Benfica

But Conte’s not going to manage any of them over spurs. 

I think Rangers was a good start for Gerrard - as it taught him how to cope with a huge club and expecting fans.  But the goal was realistic - and he did himself a massive favour by stopping Celtics league winning run when he did.  But he couldnt have really failed.   

The big difference he faces at Villa or in the PL is the expectations are a huge challenge.  Villa fans will have deemed he failed if he doesnt get us top half next season.

I guess the advantage he has is the media will judge him far less harshly than Villa fans, as I have noticed - a lot of the media were saying his first job was to keep us in the PL, which I personally thought was never in question

Barring getting us relegated sky etc will spin it as a success

[Brazilian Villain]

Unfortunately - and as much as it really pains me to say it- Chelsea would definitely be one. Those two European Cups they have in their trophy cabinet are pretty compelling evidence for me, though, relatively speaking, they’ve only been a real force for a shortish period.

I wouldn’t go by fans you can take away mind. Eintract Frankfurt took a shed load away to the Nou Camp last week but I wouldn’t consider them a big club. There are probably other clubs in England that would say they could take a shed load on tour (like Newcastle?) but again, it’s not enough.

I’d say European trophies in the cabinet. It is a debate for sure though.

That's fair enough and as CL says it's mostly a pointless debate (albeit one that has been had by football fans down the ages).

I just don't think there are many English clubs that would sell out their 50k and 60k stadiums to watch the level of football and competition that the Scottish league currently offers up. Maybe Man Ure but a lot of that would be down to Fergie's 20 tears of PL success being beamed across the world and the day trippers it brings.

[cdbearsfan]

Liverpool and Man U are both clearly bigger than Celtic or "Rangers". There is a debate regarding them and other big English clubs but those two are miles clear.

[Jon Crofts]

Purslow should be worried, this looks more like a PR stunt every week.

[LeonW]

Unfortunately - and as much as it really pains me to say it- Chelsea would definitely be one. Those two European Cups they have in their trophy cabinet are pretty compelling evidence for me, though, relatively speaking, they’ve only been a real force for a shortish period.

I wouldn’t go by fans you can take away mind. Eintract Frankfurt took a shed load away to the Nou Camp last week but I wouldn’t consider them a big club. There are probably other clubs in England that would say they could take a shed load on tour (like Newcastle?) but again, it’s not enough.

I’d say European trophies in the cabinet. It is a debate for sure though.

That's fair enough and as CL says it's mostly a pointless debate (albeit one that has been had by football fans down the ages).

I just don't think there are many English clubs that would sell out their 50k and 60k stadiums to watch the level of football and competition that the Scottish league currently offers up. Maybe Man Ure but a lot of that would be down to Fergie's 20 tears of PL success being beamed across the world and the day trippers it brings.

I don’t think it’s entirely pointless based upon the (currently) failed Super League proposals last year and the current UEFA changes to the champions league qualification process based upon ‘historical performance’ b*llsh*t.