Summer 2022 Transfer Thread

[Smithy]

Read an article in The Times today about Arteta.  He struggled at first as he had to get rid of the troublemakers and dead wood.  Took a lot more flak than SG did with Tyrone but three windows later has turned things around.  So can’t judge SG yet

But Arteta inherited a mess, I dont think SG did?  Clearly it will take him time, but to me this was a case of building on solid foundations and adding quality and fight, rather than having to overhaul a squad

Arteta inherited a team in 10th place.  He finished 8th first season (took them up two places in the second half of the season), then 8th, then 5th at the end of his second full season.

Gerrard inherited a team in 16th place, finished 14th (took them up two places in the second half of the season), and we'll see this season how much higher we go than 14th. 

If you've watched the latest amazon thing on Arsenal, you'll have noticed that Arteta clearly has a very specific way he likes his teams to play, and is VERY clear on how he wants his players to behave - showing ruthlessness in bombing out Aubamayang last season - for free, just to get rid of him - being a prime example.  They also got within a whisker of the top 4, too.   This season they've started really well and appear to have bought really well again.

Whether Arteta is a good example of the benefits of staying with a manager in the early days when things aren't going great, or not, I don't know.  They're still not yet back in the champions league, after all, but clearly they have progressed under him after a few years of misfires post-Wenger.

The stuff I see and hear about Gerrard is IDENTICAL to what the Arsenal fans were saying about Arteta 18 months ago after he'd been in the job for a year or so.

[richtheholtender]

Before last summer, we were widely acknowledged as being near the bottom in the premier league for FFP wiggle room.   I haven't seen any "official" figures since Jack left, but obviously that sale will have helped a great deal - though we did spend a lot of that cash last summer and in January, too (we're still better off in FFP terms as £100m for jack and £100m on signings amortised over contract length is still a FFP positive in the short term).

My guess is that we DO have money to spend, maybe not another £100m, but certainly big, transfer-record-breaking money if the right player comes along, but they simply aren't available yet (and might not be during this window).

When the owners were spending £100m+ per transfer window, we were buying a squad. We were spending £20m-ish at a time on a few solid premier league players, which is a LOT easier to do than spending £100m one or two real stars.  See Notts Forest this summer - they've spent, what, £120m this window? But how many of their signings would you have wanted?  The amount spent is only relative to the quality it brings in.

We are in a difficult position now where the players who would DEFINITELY improve us, probably want European football, or have to be willing to buy into our project. That makes the pool we're shopping in significantly smaller, and FAR more competitive.

I don't think our "lack" of transfer activity is a factor of our owners losing interest, more that this next phase is going to be much more difficult.  It is orders of magnitude harder to recruit the players necessary to go from mid-table to Europe than it is to get players to move you from a relegation fight to mid-table.

Newcastle, widely regarded as the richest club in the world, and with hundreds of millions available to spend under FFP, have spent only £60m.  Because they face the same issues as us - getting players capable of improving a team enough to fight for Europe without being IN Europe.  They too will spend more as the window closes - but the lack of activity so far is not through lack of trying.

I have faith in the owners, and I don't think we are done this summer...

I hope you're right with us not being done this summer but I think we might be. Just on your points though, especially about the players not being available, as I mentioned earlier for me this isn't an excuse either because the clubs above us make those players available. My concern is, as I mentioned on another thread is that if we don't progress because we haven't brought in the players that aren't available then the likes of Martinez will be offski. There's bound to be another player who'll have a good season, maybe Bailey or Buendia and they'll be gone also. Selling our best players....another trend that Lerner and Doug did. The way around it for me, a club of our size trying achieve these ambitions we have, would be to go the Leicester route ie Mahez, kante etc and properly scout and bring on the next versions of the top players but we aren't even doing that now. Just can't figure out the plan in order to achieve these ambitions.

[Clampy]

Clubs not willing to let their players go is no excuse for not signing them? Really?

[pauliewalnuts]

Carlos being injured doesn't impact the fact we bought him in the first place, of course not - we spent 30m on him, and he was going to be a big player for us - still will be, hopefully, once recovered.

I think there's a totally different discussion whereby, given Carlos is out, we're effectively running on last season's squad plus Kamara, Augstinsson and Olsen. I suspect that's not going to be sufficient strengthening to get where we want to be.

[olaftab]

That’s going to diminish the war chest.

Not happy as it would be zero net spend.

[richtheholtender]

I don't get all this 'we only added one player'  to our team nonsense. Just because Carlos is injured,  dosent mean he should not be counted. Thats just trying to suit the argument. We also permanently signed Coutinho and Olsen and added Augustinsson. Maybe it's not enough but as a whole,  the sqaud is not in bad shape really.

The squad isn't in bad shape to achieve what?

I didn't suggest any targets,  I just made the point that it's not in bad shape. Look,  if you want to gripe that we haven't replaced a player who got badly injured 7 days ago,  then fair enough. Expect people to disagree though.

I fully expect someone to disagree with me, especially you I know how different my questioning of the owners is. Its easier to be a nodding dog. I asked you what the squad that "isn't in bad shape" should be be achieving. Top 6? Top 10? What? It might not be in bad shape to finish 14th again, as we have only improved the team by one player.

[Brazilian Villain]

We needed a holding midfielder for 2 years plus before actually getting one.  Early days for an 8. No flaws in their approach at all. 

Damn NSWE and their parsimonious ways.

[Nunkin1965]

I think the owners have been excellent, they've poured a fortune into the club, there is no doubting the money they've spent so far. They clearly have ambitions to improve the club at all levels, including the stadium.

There have been a couple of missteps, though. I think they missed an opportunity to appoint a top level manager when they had the chance - not having a needless pop at SG, who deserves time to show what he can do, but he's not a proven manager in a top league. I suspect that was largely done out of Purslow making an emotional decision.

The other one, and this is being somewhat harsh I think but in terms of the message sent out re what we want to achieve, there's a really fine line between being bullish and optimistic in saying where we want to go, and setting unrealistic expectations. This is a Purslow thing, really - I like the bloke, I think he knows how to run a football club, but listening to him talk I frequently wonder if he's effectively writing cheques he can't cash.

I think your last point is the one which I have been trying ti address but I don't think its just CP as WE came out after the play off final and said we want to become one of the biggest clubs in the world. We're are now entering our 4th year I'm the prem and I don't see us finishing above just below mid way. The clubs above us aren't won't ever slow down, so at some point ti achieve WE or CP ambitions were going to have to go big. We doing well in the FFP department I think, the teams above us are catchable (just about), united are dreadful (we don't know how long that will last) and we've improved our squad by 1 player now on last season.....what are we waiting for? Or stop selling a dream

Surely the big ground investment means our owners mean business? And top 4 involvement is years away whoever owns our club.
As long as steady progress is being made then I don't have a problem as things won't change overnight or indeed during this window.
I think we're fortunate to have them and I'm not getting frustrated with progress.
Many supporters of other clubs would take up our position.

[Clampy]

I don't get all this 'we only added one player'  to our team nonsense. Just because Carlos is injured,  dosent mean he should not be counted. Thats just trying to suit the argument. We also permanently signed Coutinho and Olsen and added Augustinsson. Maybe it's not enough but as a whole,  the sqaud is not in bad shape really.

The squad isn't in bad shape to achieve what?

I didn't suggest any targets,  I just made the point that it's not in bad shape. Look,  if you want to gripe that we haven't replaced a player who got badly injured 7 days ago,  then fair enough. Expect people to disagree though.

I fully expect someone to disagree with me, especially you I know how different my questioning of the owners is. Its easier to be a nodding dog. I asked you what the squad that "isn't in bad shape" should be be achieving. Top 6? Top 10? What? It might not be in bad shape to finish 14th again, as we have only improved the team by one player.

I'm a 'nodding dog' because I disagree with you? Bit childish isn't it?

[Clampy]

Let's take today. We're in a position where we've been able to freshen up a winning side and bring in Buendia and Bailey (who both cost pushing on £60m)  and leave Coutinho and Ings on the bench. We've not been able to do that for a long while. Yeah,  we can do more but lets do it right,  not just because we can.

[RamboandBruno]

Before last summer, we were widely acknowledged as being near the bottom in the premier league for FFP wiggle room.   I haven't seen any "official" figures since Jack left, but obviously that sale will have helped a great deal - though we did spend a lot of that cash last summer and in January, too (we're still better off in FFP terms as £100m for jack and £100m on signings amortised over contract length is still a FFP positive in the short term).

My guess is that we DO have money to spend, maybe not another £100m, but certainly big, transfer-record-breaking money if the right player comes along, but they simply aren't available yet (and might not be during this window).

When the owners were spending £100m+ per transfer window, we were buying a squad. We were spending £20m-ish at a time on a few solid premier league players, which is a LOT easier to do than spending £100m one or two real stars.  See Notts Forest this summer - they've spent, what, £120m this window? But how many of their signings would you have wanted?  The amount spent is only relative to the quality it brings in.

We are in a difficult position now where the players who would DEFINITELY improve us, probably want European football, or have to be willing to buy into our project. That makes the pool we're shopping in significantly smaller, and FAR more competitive.

I don't think our "lack" of transfer activity is a factor of our owners losing interest, more that this next phase is going to be much more difficult.  It is orders of magnitude harder to recruit the players necessary to go from mid-table to Europe than it is to get players to move you from a relegation fight to mid-table.

Newcastle, widely regarded as the richest club in the world, and with hundreds of millions available to spend under FFP, have spent only £60m.  Because they face the same issues as us - getting players capable of improving a team enough to fight for Europe without being IN Europe.  They too will spend more as the window closes - but the lack of activity so far is not through lack of trying.

I have faith in the owners, and I don't think we are done this summer...

I hope you're right with us not being done this summer but I think we might be. Just on your points though, especially about the players not being available, as I mentioned earlier for me this isn't an excuse either because the clubs above us make those players available. My concern is, as I mentioned on another thread is that if we don't progress because we haven't brought in the players that aren't available then the likes of Martinez will be offski. There's bound to be another player who'll have a good season, maybe Bailey or Buendia and they'll be gone also. Selling our best players....another trend that Lerner and Doug did. The way around it for me, a club of our size trying achieve these ambitions we have, would be to go the Leicester route ie Mahez, kante etc and properly scout and bring on the next versions of the top players but we aren't even doing that now. Just can't figure out the plan in order to achieve these ambitions.

Dont necessarily have an issue with everything you’ve said, just think your being a little harsh. For example on what you said around the Leicester model, Kamara on a free kind of fits into this as does our focus on our youth structures, JJ, Tim, Feeney (will be on the first team squad this season). Plus there has been a slight shift since Gerrard came in of getting some tried and tested professionals/leaders in to balance out the youth and signings with potential. 

[pauliewalnuts]

From The Athletic:

Bertrand Traore and Morgan Sanson — the two big-money arrivals from January 2021 — are set to leave Aston Villa.

A number of Turkish clubs have shown an interest in taking both players on loan and Traore (pictured) is now closing in on a switch to Istanbul Basaksehir.

The winger, signed for £17million, has fallen out of favour under Steven Gerrard and knows he needs to move in search of game time.

Sanson’s situation is slightly more nuanced as Gerrard insists he has trained well and is pushing for involvement. It is understood that Villa have not given up hope on the Frenchman — signed for £14 million — featuring again in the future.

But like Traore, Sanson wants to be playing regularly, and the search for a temporary move is on.

Both Besiktas and Galatasaray have shown an interest and the former Marseille man is also open to a return back to France, with various options explored.

Neither player has made it into a 20-man Premier League squad for Villa this season with youngster Tim Iroegbunam travelling as the 21st man in case of any pre-game setbacks.

Ahead of Villa’s trip to Crystal Palace on Saturday, Gerrard said: “There’s a few things brewing in the background and a few plates spinning.

“We’re close on one or two different things (regarding outgoings).”

Speaking about Sanson, the 28-year-old who was signed before he joined the club, Gerrard said: “Morgan has been very professional, he’s been calm, he’s been training well but, at the same time, he’s frustrated with his game time.

“I respect that, I understand that so, if something lands for Morgan that he wants to pursue, we won’t stand in his way. At the same time, he’s training well and is pushing to be back in the frame.”

Villa got the bulk of their incoming transfer business done early but will still consider further additions before the September 1 deadline.

A replacement centre-back for the injured Diego Carlos is likely and while Villa are thought to be in no rush over a replacement as they seek the right deal, an approach has been made to Southampton over a possible move for Jan Bednarek.

There are also ongoing conversations around a new No 8 and other attacking players, with Gerrard saying: “We’re still analysing the three units in our system; forward line, the midfield line and, certainly now, from a defensive point of view.

“We were really set in that department but, obviously, we’re deciding and are talking now about whether we should do something there.

“The window’s still open, there’s still ten days so there’s a possibility we could look slightly different come the end of the window.”
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[ChicagoLion]

We are competing at the 4th Tier in terms of players , I think the market looks like this
1st  Tier Elite CL teams
2Tier CL Teams
3rd Tier other teams offering European Football
4th PL Teams that have ambition
5Th Tier other PL teams and European Teams i Italy Germany France Spain that are not in Europe.
And so on
Of course money age of player and other considerations are important but we are not competing on a level playing field.
 

[richtheholtender]

Before last summer, we were widely acknowledged as being near the bottom in the premier league for FFP wiggle room.   I haven't seen any "official" figures since Jack left, but obviously that sale will have helped a great deal - though we did spend a lot of that cash last summer and in January, too (we're still better off in FFP terms as £100m for jack and £100m on signings amortised over contract length is still a FFP positive in the short term).

My guess is that we DO have money to spend, maybe not another £100m, but certainly big, transfer-record-breaking money if the right player comes along, but they simply aren't available yet (and might not be during this window).

When the owners were spending £100m+ per transfer window, we were buying a squad. We were spending £20m-ish at a time on a few solid premier league players, which is a LOT easier to do than spending £100m one or two real stars.  See Notts Forest this summer - they've spent, what, £120m this window? But how many of their signings would you have wanted?  The amount spent is only relative to the quality it brings in.

We are in a difficult position now where the players who would DEFINITELY improve us, probably want European football, or have to be willing to buy into our project. That makes the pool we're shopping in significantly smaller, and FAR more competitive.

I don't think our "lack" of transfer activity is a factor of our owners losing interest, more that this next phase is going to be much more difficult.  It is orders of magnitude harder to recruit the players necessary to go from mid-table to Europe than it is to get players to move you from a relegation fight to mid-table.

Newcastle, widely regarded as the richest club in the world, and with hundreds of millions available to spend under FFP, have spent only £60m.  Because they face the same issues as us - getting players capable of improving a team enough to fight for Europe without being IN Europe.  They too will spend more as the window closes - but the lack of activity so far is not through lack of trying.

I have faith in the owners, and I don't think we are done this summer...

I hope you're right with us not being done this summer but I think we might be. Just on your points though, especially about the players not being available, as I mentioned earlier for me this isn't an excuse either because the clubs above us make those players available. My concern is, as I mentioned on another thread is that if we don't progress because we haven't brought in the players that aren't available then the likes of Martinez will be offski. There's bound to be another player who'll have a good season, maybe Bailey or Buendia and they'll be gone also. Selling our best players....another trend that Lerner and Doug did. The way around it for me, a club of our size trying achieve these ambitions we have, would be to go the Leicester route ie Mahez, kante etc and properly scout and bring on the next versions of the top players but we aren't even doing that now. Just can't figure out the plan in order to achieve these ambitions.

Dont necessarily have an issue with everything you’ve said, just think your being a little harsh. For example on what you said around the Leicester model, Kamara on a free kind of fits into this as does our focus on our youth structures, JJ, Tim, Feeney (will be on the first team squad this season). Plus there has been a slight shift since Gerrard came in of getting some tried and tested professionals/leaders in to balance out the youth and signings with potential. 

That's fair enough RE Kamara and Ramsey. I think they're probably assuming (rightly or wrongly) that the signings of last year will propel them up the league. I personally don't see it, for instance you've mentioned Ramsey, I think we should have upgraded this window and he should be developed properly by not overrelying on him. I dont see how that would have been such a stretch on the finances and would help us get to where they stress they want to be.

[Paul.S]

There’s a choice to be made. Improve the quality of player or replacement the manager. What we can’t do is limp forwards thinking things will get better without change because it won’t.