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Author Topic: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager  (Read 256607 times)

Offline wince

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3750 on: May 20, 2022, 07:33:21 AM »
Itís all a bit knee jerk. This season was always going to be tough given how we started. Many of you would have given anything to be stable in the top flight when we were being battered by PNE a few years ago. Time to make a call is after a proper preseason and shipping out the deadwood. If not we become the Watford tribute act.

Offline ROBBO

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3751 on: May 20, 2022, 07:39:36 AM »
We all recognise the midfield needs to be sorted, I hope it isn't going to be another transfer period where we miss all our midfield targets.

Offline Holte132

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3752 on: May 20, 2022, 08:18:19 AM »
Gerrard has won 2 home games out 11. Some upgrade that

Yes, only winning those 2 games at home against Brighton, Leicester, Southampton and Norwich - oh, wait a minute, that's 4 games. Still not brilliant but better than two!

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3753 on: May 20, 2022, 08:32:56 AM »
Two out of the last eleven, I assume he meant. Four out of fourteen overall.

Offline Ads

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3754 on: May 20, 2022, 08:42:17 AM »
Two out of the last eleven, I assume he meant. Four out of fourteen overall.

Probably easier to say 4 out of 14. But then it doesn't sound as bad.

Not that it sounds good either. But then again, our problem has always been at home for many a year. We only won 4 more than this season at home the last time we came 6th. Spurs won 14 and came 4th.

Offline boozey182

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3755 on: May 20, 2022, 09:36:23 AM »
Two out of the last eleven, I assume he meant. Four out of fourteen overall.

Probably easier to say 4 out of 14. But then it doesn't sound as bad.

Not that it sounds good either. But then again, our problem has always been at home for many a year. We only won 4 more than this season at home the last time we came 6th. Spurs won 14 and came 4th.

Stats can be very misleading. I don't think you'll get too many people arguing that our home form has been anywhere near good enough this season, or for a long time. That isn't Gerrard's fault, but it is his responsibility to fix and he hasn't shown much ability in that rgard at the moment.

The PPG stat also needs to be viewed in context - we are 8th based on the 26 games that Gerrard has been in charge of, which is a huge improvement on what came before him. Over a quarter of his games have come against teams that are going to finish in the bottom 4 though, and in a table that is so tightly packed one game against poor opposition makes an awful lot of difference. Take away three points and we're 13th, which doesn't sound as good. I guess this is why it's never wise to judge a manager until he has had a full season - barring a Tim Sherwood-style disaster, and Gerrard is comfortably above that level.

We will improve next season, I am almost certain of that. The last few years it has felt like we were one transfer away from a disaster - that transfer happened last year. Now we don't have that hanging over our heads - no one-critical-element to our squad that we would really struggle without. I guess that's progress in itself?

The message seems to be 'give Gerrard a load of cash and we'll finish top half', which leaves me with mixed feelings. I am desperate for us to be better, but it's not the most inspiring management philosophy. It will probably work, and there are such obvious holes in the squad that surely this summer is the summer that we actually fill them, but I would have really like to have seen a bit more out of our current squad this year. We have underperformed. Last night seemed to sum up our season - pretty drab, a self-inflicted setback, a brief moment of quality and then not kicking on when everything looked like we might. Never really troubled, never really looking great.

The focal point of the debate on Gerrard seems to be based the perceived quality of our squad. Some think he is hamstrung by the limitations of the players, others think he isn't getting them to perform anywhere near their capabilities. The truth is probably in the middle - the squad has glaring weaknesses, but a really good manager would have got more out of them, and Gerrard isn't a really good manager. At the moment.

He is young and he'll get better. He has to, really, or his career will be over before it's really got going. So I am hoping that he spends the summer improving himself as much as he improves the squad. You don't win the F1 championship by having a great car or a great driver - you need both. (I have zero knowledge of F1, so that might be bullshit, I just couldn't think of an analogy that is a bit more in my wheelhouse).

Next season is massive for us. There is so much opportunity to gain on the teams above us. Wolves and Leicester seem to have plateaued, Man U seem to be embarking on their 15th transitional season, who knows what will happen with Chelseas, Spurs could spend the summer offering most of Europe the manager's job again and surely West Ham's bubble will burst soon (pun very much intended). If we get our shit together, we could make some serious headway. I can forgive this year because of all the disruption - next year there are no excuses.

Offline cdbearsfan

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3756 on: May 20, 2022, 09:38:13 AM »
Two out of the last eleven, I assume he meant. Four out of fourteen overall.

Probably easier to say 4 out of 14. But then it doesn't sound as bad.

Not that it sounds good either. But then again, our problem has always been at home for many a year. We only won 4 more than this season at home the last time we came 6th. Spurs won 14 and came 4th.

No, but form counts as well as overall record. I don't think it is unreasonable to say he won two of his last eleven.

Offline Holte132

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3757 on: May 20, 2022, 09:45:15 AM »
Two out of the last eleven, I assume he meant. Four out of fourteen overall.

Probably easier to say 4 out of 14. But then it doesn't sound as bad.

Not that it sounds good either. But then again, our problem has always been at home for many a year. We only won 4 more than this season at home the last time we came 6th. Spurs won 14 and came 4th.

No, but form counts as well as overall record. I don't think it is unreasonable to say he won two of his last eleven.

Got to admit that I missed the significance of the word 'last' when I made my comment about us having won 4 home games under SG. Sorry.

Offline Risso

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3758 on: May 20, 2022, 09:45:47 AM »
Some good points Boozey.

I think most of the players have played to the same standard they have in the last one or two seasons. McGinn has got his customary three goals for the season. Mings has been his usual mix of great but with enough errors chucked in to be infuriating. Luiz has mostly strolled about not doing a huge amount of anything either terrible or really good. Watkins is into double figures again which is good, but can still trap a ball further than I can kick it, and so on. I'm not sure there's much more to come from any of those players so we need an injection of quality next season, to "help [replace] the players who are in the building" (© Stevže G) and bring out the best in the players who do look like they can move us on like Coutinho, Buendia, Digne and Ramsey.

Offline boozey182

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3759 on: May 20, 2022, 10:08:48 AM »
Some good points Boozey.

I think most of the players have played to the same standard they have in the last one or two seasons. McGinn has got his customary three goals for the season. Mings has been his usual mix of great but with enough errors chucked in to be infuriating. Luiz has mostly strolled about not doing a huge amount of anything either terrible or really good. Watkins is into double figures again which is good, but can still trap a ball further than I can kick it, and so on. I'm not sure there's much more to come from any of those players so we need an injection of quality next season, to "help [replace] the players who are in the building" (© Stevže G) and bring out the best in the players who do look like they can move us on like Coutinho, Buendia, Digne and Ramsey.

It's difficult to argue with much of that. All I would say is that I think Mings would benefit massively from a more experienced CB alongside him. Someone to take a bit more responsibility with the ball. I think it's easy to forget that he had never really played as a CB before he joined us, and since then he has always been the 'main' defender. Someone coming in to help him out might see him make fewer mistakes.

McGinn will certainly benefit from playing further forward (I thought he's shown a bit more the last few weeks), but we also need competition there. Gerrard seems to really rate him though, so I can't see him going.

Doug is not, and has never been, a DM. He showed enough against Liverpool to suggest he might make a very good CM, but if we got a decent offer for him I think it would make sense for everyone to let him go.

Watkins is a funny one. He has a decent scoring record, but his general play hasn't been good enough this season. I might be imagining it, but I felt that he was much better towards the end of last season - when Joe was out Ollie looked like one of the few quality footballers left in the team. I'm not sure what has happened to him since. I'd keep him, but if we could attract a top striker that could give us different options, then we shouldn't hesitate. Gerrard's frustration at not taking our chances suggests a striker is on the shopping list.

It shouldn't be "you're in or you're out" though. I want a manager that rotates the squad and picks the best team to take advantage of our opponents' weaknesses, so if we do sign players in these positions, it shouldn't mean that these players are confined to the bench for a season. Just that they are going to have to fight for a place. Like Buendia has done, and Sanson (seemingly) hasn't.

Online LeeB

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3760 on: May 20, 2022, 10:16:00 AM »
For me, it's our decision making and game control that really lets us down and undermines the consistency required to get into the European spots.

Buendia seems to encapsulate it perfectly. He's got bags of talent, the heart of a lion, but he'll be a blessing and curse in the same game, as he was last night. Knowing when to try the killer ball, when to raise the tempo of the game or when to take the sting out of it is something we really struggle with all round.

If he can get to grips with that issue we'll be much better off.

Online ASHTONVILLA

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3761 on: May 20, 2022, 10:30:31 AM »
I think the club need to be better at knowing when to offload players.

Too often we let contacts run out, or only sell failed players (usually for a book loss).

With FFP still a reality for us, revenue needs managing to free up space for improving the squad. The best time to shift on a player like Watkins or McGinn is when they hit 27 / 28/ 29 years old and have a couple of years on their contract. It the decent but not top notch players like these that need to be sold if good offers come in.

McGinn cost £2.5m, is midway through a contract and is (I think) 28 next season. I like him, but if we were offered upwards of £30m I think we should take it and reinvest in a younger players with the potential to get better, or an older player on a free if we have a youngster close to breaking through. Same with Watkins who has been linked with West Ham and Arsenal for £50m and has probably reached his limit with us regards potential.

We also need to get better at attracting fees for out of favour players like Trez, El Ghazi, Guilbert, Kalinic rather than just loan them out until they go on a free. £4-6m a piece for them buys a better player to have in the squad.

The players we need to keep are Martinez, Coutinho, Buendia, Digne, Ramsey and Cash. The rest could all go if the deals were right.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 11:06:46 AM by ASHTONVILLA »

Offline Ads

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3762 on: May 20, 2022, 10:44:22 AM »
Villa Park is too grand. I did the tour with my lad in August 2020 and the whole changing rooms and tunnel area shout a quality beyond our players.

You've got achievement after achievement etched into the pillars, leading to a trophy cabinet with a triumvirate of greatness. Its wide, its grand, its better than Wembley and  out classes any of the sanitised Big 6.

Then the sliding doors open you walk out of the tunnel and if you ever thought Villa Park looked spectacular from your seat, its an absolute cathedral from pitch level. Chuck in 40,000 and all of sudden you have the very best thinking "this is absolutely made for us and all our airs and graces" and you have shit house no marks struggling to contain themselves at playing at somewhere so majestic.

It's too nice a place to come and play football. It's got that intangible quality that the new builds don't have and won't for 50 to 60 years if ever.

I cannot think of a time when Villa Park has been a fortress in all my match going years. It should be the home of a side competing for every major trophy, its so disproportionately good.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 10:45:58 AM by Ads »

Online LeeB

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3763 on: May 20, 2022, 10:45:41 AM »
I think the club need to be better at knowing when to offload players.

Too often we let contacts run out, or only sell failed players (usually for a book loss).

With FFP still a reality for us, revenue needs managing to free up space for improving the squad. The best time to shift on a player like Watkins or McGinn is when they hit 27 / 28/ 29 years old and have a couple of years on their contract. It the decent but not top notch players like these that need to be sold if good offers come in.

McGinn cost £2.5m, is midway through a contract and is (I think) 28 next season. I like him, but if we were offered upwards of £30m I think we should take it and reinvest in a younger players with the potential to get better, or an older player on a free if we have a youngster close to breaking through. Same with Watkins who has been linked with West Ham and Arsenal for £50m and has probably reached his limit with us regards potential.

We also need to get better at attracting fees for out of favour players like Trez, El Ghazi, Guilbert, Kalinic rather than just loan them out until they go on a free. £4-6 a piece for them buys a better player to have in the squad.

The players we need to keep are Martinez, Coutinho, Buendia, Digne, Ramsey and Cash. The rest could all go if the deals were right.

Would you take 3 for a tenner?

Offline boozey182

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Re: Steven Gerrard - Our Manager
« Reply #3764 on: May 20, 2022, 11:01:15 AM »
I think the club need to be better at knowing when to offload players.

Too often we let contacts run out, or only sell failed players (usually for a book loss).

With FFP still a reality for us, revenue needs managing to free up space for improving the squad. The best time to shift on a player like Watkins or McGinn is when they hit 27 / 28/ 29 years old and have a couple of years on their contract. It the decent but not top notch players like these that need to be sold if good offers come in.

McGinn cost £2.5m, is midway through a contract and is (I think) 28 next season. I like him, but if we were offered upwards of £30m I think we should take it and reinvest in a younger players with the potential to get better, or an older player on a free if we have a youngster close to breaking through. Same with Watkins who has been linked with West Ham and Arsenal for £50m and has probably reached his limit with us regards potential.

We also need to get better at attracting fees for out of favour players like Trez, El Ghazi, Guilbert, Kalinic rather than just loan them out until they go on a free. £4-6 a piece for them buys a better player to have in the squad.

The players we need to keep are Martinez, Coutinho, Buendia, Digne, Ramsey and Cash. The rest could all go if the deals were right.

You're right, and it's something I've been thinking for a while. But it also needs to be done sensibly - you've mentioned quite a few players that are going to be leaving regardless this summer - Trez, El Ghazi, Guilbert, Kalinic. Then there's Sanson, Hourihane, Wesley, Steer and Targett - who will likely be going. Traore too? There's 10 players that are very likely to leave this summer. If you add Luiz, which I think is likely, you're looking at a pretty major squad overhaul. If we lose players like McGinn and Watkins on top of that, we might be looking at another one of those dreaded 'transitional' seasons while the squad has chance to gel.

We certainly need to be savvier when it comes to selling players, but this summer should be about complementing what we have, rather than a big upheaval. I think if we sell more than one or two of the players around the first team, we may end up regretting it.

 


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