FFP

[Beard82]

Can we not all just agree that some rules are good - the current rules specifically seem to hamstring clubs like us.

This obviously means they are the worst thing ever for us - but we have found away around them by employing a truely amazing managerial team.  This comes with its own risks - which at the moment we are navigating but may well come back to bite us in the arse.

I think its perfectly fine to say the rules need changing so that the fact you have 800m of debt, but a Beycone concert shouldnt necessarily mean you are allowed more financial freedom than a club with a Guns N Roses concert and virtually 0 debt.  Without it being interperted as saying "lets have a free for all"

Clearly we are at the top end, and most other clubs will group us in with the Spurs and Chelseas. But that doesnt make our opinions invalid because we are one of a select few who it impacts the most, whilst still being privileged to be in that group.

For what its worth I think for a large part it generates what we see - a few very powerful teams who the media favour, but very few of the very best players or teams - relative to the wealth of the league.  I also think this spills into the national team. 

[PeterWithesShin]

Yeah the fact we cheated, made illegal payments and so won trophies got us a lot of glory hunters. Glad no clubs do that now.

[Sexual Ealing]

Can we not all just agree that some rules are good - the current rules specifically seem to hamstring clubs like us.

This obviously means they are the worst thing ever for us - but we have found away around them by employing a truely amazing managerial team.  This comes with its own risks - which at the moment we are navigating but may well come back to bite us in the arse.

I think its perfectly fine to say the rules need changing so that the fact you have 800m of debt, but a Beycone concert shouldnt necessarily mean you are allowed more financial freedom than a club with a Guns N Roses concert and virtually 0 debt.  Without it being interperted as saying "lets have a free for all"

Clearly we are at the top end, and most other clubs will group us in with the Spurs and Chelseas. But that doesnt make our opinions invalid because we are one of a select few who it impacts the most, whilst still being privileged to be in that group.

For what its worth I think for a large part it generates what we see - a few very powerful teams who the media favour, but very few of the very best players or teams - relative to the wealth of the league.  I also think this spills into the national team. 

To summarise: it's ok when we do it.

[The Edge]

Clubs that generate the most money usually spend the most money. It's been that way for the 50 odd years i've been following Villa.

Yes. We would all have hated Villa up to the 1930s.

We were founder members and we were bigger and better than most others due entirely by the brilliant way our club was run. There wasn't any rules back then written explicitly to favour a group of clubs that threatened to join a breakaway European league.

[PeterWithesShin]

There were rules about paying players that we ignored though and got done for.

[Beard82]

Can we not all just agree that some rules are good - the current rules specifically seem to hamstring clubs like us.

This obviously means they are the worst thing ever for us - but we have found away around them by employing a truely amazing managerial team.  This comes with its own risks - which at the moment we are navigating but may well come back to bite us in the arse.

I think its perfectly fine to say the rules need changing so that the fact you have 800m of debt, but a Beycone concert shouldnt necessarily mean you are allowed more financial freedom than a club with a Guns N Roses concert and virtually 0 debt.  Without it being interperted as saying "lets have a free for all"

Clearly we are at the top end, and most other clubs will group us in with the Spurs and Chelseas. But that doesnt make our opinions invalid because we are one of a select few who it impacts the most, whilst still being privileged to be in that group.

For what its worth I think for a large part it generates what we see - a few very powerful teams who the media favour, but very few of the very best players or teams - relative to the wealth of the league.  I also think this spills into the national team. 

To summarise: it's ok when we do it.

Thats not what I mean at all.

I get we're biased about the current rules because were one of 2 or 3 clubs that are being held back - and for the other clubs its not a problem.

However, there is still a legitimacy in our frustrations.  In the same way there is legitimacy in some of the things levelled at us. 

As I said - think it leads to a poorer league, with poorer players than a more balanced approach might lead to.

Im more than happy to admit I am biased, and accept that my views might not be shared - but its nowhere near as trite"its ok when we do it"

[paul_e]

Just to get this right is there currently an argument that we shouldn't complain about the FFP, etc rules because we were a bit naughty before anyone on this forum was alive?

[Dogtanian]

Just to get this right is there currently an argument that we shouldn't complain about the FFP, etc rules because we were a bit naughty before anyone on this forum was alive?

 

[PeterWithesShin]

Just to get this right is there currently an argument that we shouldn't complain about the FFP, etc rules because we were a bit naughty before anyone on this forum was alive?

Said no one.

[Dave]

As I said - think it leads to a poorer league, with poorer players than a more balanced approach might lead to.

Im more than happy to admit I am biased, and accept that my views might not be shared - but its nowhere near as trite"its ok when we do it"

I'd definitely argue (and have done before) that the "poorer league" thing doesn't really stack up. Poorer for whom?

Do Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton etc think that six teams who can spend whatever they want, turning into eight teams that can spent whatever they want makes the league better?

99% of clubs would consider us to be part of the problem, not the poor, set-upon underdogs pushing at the glass ceiling.

[pauliewalnuts]

How keen would we be for the spending rules to be lifted from Newcastle, for example?

There has to be some kind of limit, it just needs to be thought out and planned in such a way as not to have unintended consequences, ie the value of selling homegrown products rather than keeping them.

It's like VAR. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept, it is the application (in the UK) that is totally fucked.

[Beard82]

As I said - think it leads to a poorer league, with poorer players than a more balanced approach might lead to.

Im more than happy to admit I am biased, and accept that my views might not be shared - but its nowhere near as trite"its ok when we do it"

I'd definitely argue (and have done before) that the "poorer league" thing doesn't really stack up. Poorer for whom?

Do Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton etc think that six teams who can spend whatever they want, turning into eight teams that can spent whatever they want makes the league better?

99% of clubs would consider us to be part of the problem, not the poor, set-upon underdogs pushing at the glass ceiling.

I mean that for every top player that goes to a big 6 team and does well, you see another go and lose there entertainment value.

Also - we still don't get the stars in their prime very often.  Despite being the richest league in the world, we often dont get the very best players.

[Beard82]

How keen would we be for the spending rules to be lifted from Newcastle, for example?

There has to be some kind of limit, it just needs to be thought out and planned in such a way as not to have unintended consequences, ie the value of selling homegrown products rather than keeping them.

It's like VAR. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the concept, it is the application (in the UK) that is totally fucked.

Exactly. 

[Percy McCarthy]

As I said - think it leads to a poorer league, with poorer players than a more balanced approach might lead to.

Im more than happy to admit I am biased, and accept that my views might not be shared - but its nowhere near as trite"its ok when we do it"

I'd definitely argue (and have done before) that the "poorer league" thing doesn't really stack up. Poorer for whom?

Do Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton etc think that six teams who can spend whatever they want, turning into eight teams that can spent whatever they want makes the league better?

99% of clubs would consider us to be part of the problem, not the poor, set-upon underdogs pushing at the glass ceiling.

I mean that for every top player that goes to a big 6 team and does well, you see another go and lose there entertainment value.

Also - we still don't get the stars in their prime very often.  Despite being the richest league in the world, we often dont get the very best players.

Yeah, the very best players play in leagues where there are only one or two teams (France, Germany, Spain). Not sure that makes those leagues better.

[Beard82]

As I said - think it leads to a poorer league, with poorer players than a more balanced approach might lead to.

Im more than happy to admit I am biased, and accept that my views might not be shared - but its nowhere near as trite"its ok when we do it"

I'd definitely argue (and have done before) that the "poorer league" thing doesn't really stack up. Poorer for whom?

Do Bournemouth, Palace, Brighton etc think that six teams who can spend whatever they want, turning into eight teams that can spent whatever they want makes the league better?

99% of clubs would consider us to be part of the problem, not the poor, set-upon underdogs pushing at the glass ceiling.

I mean that for every top player that goes to a big 6 team and does well, you see another go and lose there entertainment value.

Also - we still don't get the stars in their prime very often.  Despite being the richest league in the world, we often dont get the very best players.

Yeah, the very best players play in leagues where there are only one or two teams (France, Germany, Spain). Not sure that makes those leagues better.

No but it means they win more Champions Leagues, and World Cups.