FFP

[Beard82]

What happens if we break the rules - do we know?  From what I understand we have signed up to a deal with UEFA that means that were out the woods if we hit this agreement - whereas Chelsea have a longer period of being on a speical agreement.

Pressumably - the club thought that was the best option / realistic - but I just dont see how we will be able to reduce the losses this year without CL other than by making signficant player sales.  And given the situation is well publicised - I cant see us getting good prices for any of them unless its an asset that is highly indemand - which would most likely be Konsa, Rogers, Teileman, Kamara (though unlikely when injured), or maybe Onana. 

[tomd2103]

Does anyone else feel though that if we navigate through
FFP
PSR
SCR

There will be something else to trip us u(and any other ambitious side) up along the way

Its such a rigged deck i am not sure when it goes from a motivational challenge for the likes of NSWE and Unai to being just not worth it anymore

Really sad state of affairs

VAR

[eamonn]

Selling Guessand and Malen in the summer for the expected sums - more or less what we paid for them, won't make much of a difference in the accounts as the sales will be offset by the amortisation remaining on their contracts.

[TheToffnar]

Selling Guessand and Malen in the summer for the expected sums - more or less what we paid for them, won't make much of a difference in the accounts as the sales will be offset by the amortisation remaining on their contracts.

Are the amortisation sums not spread across future years though, where sales of any kind can be included in total? Again, apologies if that's a dim question.

[Crown Hill]

What happens if we break the rules - do we know?  From what I understand we have signed up to a deal with UEFA that means that were out the woods if we hit this agreement - whereas Chelsea have a longer period of being on a speical agreement.

Pressumably - the club thought that was the best option / realistic - but I just dont see how we will be able to reduce the losses this year without CL other than by making signficant player sales.  And given the situation is well publicised - I cant see us getting good prices for any of them unless its an asset that is highly indemand - which would most likely be Konsa, Rogers, Teileman, Kamara (though unlikely when injured), or maybe Onana.

I spoke to VIlla’s CFO earlier this week. He said both the Times and Kieran Maguire were guessing with regards to Villa’s compliance with the UEFA rules. He said there are a couple of transactions they are unaware of. So the implication was we won’t be fined this year.

[aev]

Interesting...

The Premier League is to launch a streaming platform in Singapore that could pave the way for a global direct-to-consumer “Premflix” product, CEO Richard Masters has confirmed.

The long-rumoured new service, a collaboration with telco StarHub, will be called Premier League Plus and show all 380 games live as well as magazine content, starting next season.

Singapore will act as a pilot but the launch of the platform – which will broadcast non-stop content and be available via an app – will give the Premier League an additional option for maximising the value of its rights in all markets.

“For the first time, we’re going direct-to-consumer in Singapore. It’s a very long, considered process, carefully chosen,” said Masters.

[Percy McCarthy]

^^ Wow! That’s the kind of ITK we need.

Crown Hill’s I meant. And good stuff from aev too.

[aev]

What happens if we break the rules - do we know?  From what I understand we have signed up to a deal with UEFA that means that were out the woods if we hit this agreement - whereas Chelsea have a longer period of being on a speical agreement.

Pressumably - the club thought that was the best option / realistic - but I just dont see how we will be able to reduce the losses this year without CL other than by making signficant player sales.  And given the situation is well publicised - I cant see us getting good prices for any of them unless its an asset that is highly indemand - which would most likely be Konsa, Rogers, Teileman, Kamara (though unlikely when injured), or maybe Onana.

I spoke to VIlla’s CFO earlier this week. He said both the Times and Kieran Maguire were guessing with regards to Villa’s compliance with the UEFA rules. He said there are a couple of transactions they are unaware of. So the implication was we won’t be fined this year.

Wonder if one of them is the El Gouuna or whatever it is called.

[eamonn]

Our current CFO being Rich Cackett? The previous one or the one before, Robin Russell, died quite suddenly (after he'd left us).

[eamonn]

Selling Guessand and Malen in the summer for the expected sums - more or less what we paid for them, won't make much of a difference in the accounts as the sales will be offset by the amortisation remaining on their contracts.

Are the amortisation sums not spread across future years though, where sales of any kind can be included in total? Again, apologies if that's a dim question.

You're probably right. Percy ?

[Crown Hill]

Our current CFO being Rich Cackett? The previous one or the one before, Robin Russell, died quite suddenly (after he'd left us).

Yes it was Rich.

He didn't expand beyond what I wrote which is why I was careful to say  implied we won’t be fined.

[Percy McCarthy]

Selling Guessand and Malen in the summer for the expected sums - more or less what we paid for them, won't make much of a difference in the accounts as the sales will be offset by the amortisation remaining on their contracts.

Are the amortisation sums not spread across future years though, where sales of any kind can be included in total? Again, apologies if that's a dim question.

You're probably right. Percy ?

Depends on which rules. The above is correct under PL PSR. Under UEFA SCR, fees paid and received go into the accounts over three years.

Paul e is yer man though.

[SoccerHQ]

Was reading an article on the BBC earlier about Manchester United's debt now rising to £1.3bn which linked to some other articles.  One of them broke down the Deloitte money table in to categories of match day, broadcast and commercial income.  In terms of English clubs, it was (in Euros):

Liverpool - 149,800 / 320,700 / 365,700
Man City - 89,300 / 331,500 / 408,400
Arsenal - 183,100 / 324,600 / 314,000
Man Utd - 190,700 / 205,800 / 396,600
Spurs - 150,500 / 192,400 / 329,700
Chelsea - 103,200 / 241,800 / 239,000

Aston Villa - 80,200 / 286,700 / 83,300

Newcastle - 67,600 / 191,600 / 139,200

West Ham - 47,100 / 157,500 / 71,400

Inter Milan - 108,000 / 277,000 / 152,500
Bor Dortmund - 94,900 / 227,200 / 209,200
Atl Madrid - 79,900 / 218,600 / 156,000

Some interesting comparisons there as you've got the so called 'Big Six', Newcastle who are probably about on a par with us and then West Ham who are obviously the highest of the rest of the Premier League.  The things that stand out for me when comparing us with Newcastle and West Ham is the massive difference in broadcast income that the Champions League brings.  Interesting that it also put us ahead of Man Utd, Chelsea and Spurs in that area, and that the double whammy of Premier League and Champions League put us above the 3 European sides directly above us. 

Again presuming that being in the Champions League put our matchday revenue ahead of Newcastle and West Ham, but we were considerably behind the English clubs in the top ten on the list (Man City's figures looks low though??).  It's the commercial figure that is the real eye opener and that some of the Premier League clubs earn nearly 5 times what we do in that area.  How do they manage that and that just seems a massive gap to get anywhere remotely near bridging.  The figures for Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich and PSG are even more eye-watering.
 

When our 80-ish million a year in commercial revenue is 300-ish million a year, like some of the other top 6 sides, THEN we'll start to compete on a more level playing field, but I'd be surprised if we get there before the ground redevelopment is complete for the 2028 Euros - more likely a year or two after that. Our figures for the 29/30 season should be getting close to the others, all other things being equal.

The real challenge for the next few years, is being able to keep the team competitive, with one hand behind our back, financially speaking, until we can get close to the others commercially.  And Unai is absolutely crucial to that.

How do we get from where we are now in terms of commercial earnings to 300m+ which is over 200m more?

Again, it doesn't happen quickly.  Firstly we need more fans buying shirts and other Villa-related stuff (which requires on-field success).  Then we need our sponsors to pay us much more (which requires on-field success), and we need new sponsors and brands who want to be associated with us in new and creative ways (this requires on-field success AND creative people in our management team). 

I posted about this a while ago, but go and look at Manchester United's partner and sponsors page.  They have an "official wine partner" an "Official Medical Systems Partner" an "Official Mattress and Pillow Partner" an "Official Skincare partner".  Plus MANY more.  None of these is shirt-sponsor money, but it add MILLIONS every year.  But you only get this type of thing when brands are falling over themselves to associate with you.  Which, again, comes from on-field success.

Then you've got the main shirt sponsors, the ones everyone has - the 'big 6' all have deals worth £20-40 million A YEAR more than ours.  Assuming the multipliers are similar for training gear, sleeves etc, they could all be getting £60m a year more than us from their primary sponsors alone.

There is no single step that gets bridges that £200m gap in one go, or even over a year or two.  It's a series of incremental, inextricably linked, cumulative, smaller steps.  We're ON that set of steps now, but we're still nearer the bottom than the top, and it will take a few years to get there, as long as we keep maintaining a moderate level of success on the pitch.

I've been saying since Unai got us into Europe in his first year, the gap we REALLY need to bridge, financially speaking, is the commercial revenue one.  THAT is the number that will determine whether we can compete long-term, across squad renewals, and across managerial changes.  As others have said, Spurs are not very good right now, but they can absorb that lack of on-field success for a few years because of an enormous commercial operation.  THAT's the position you need to be in, in order to compete long term (unfortunately).

When you're relying on Champions League money to determine whether or not you can compete from season to season, it will only ever end badly (eventually), because you're one bad season from a fire sale.  But get that commercial number up to a moderately competitive level, and it will give us a buffer against collapse/fire sales due to a bad year on the pitch.

We had this opportunity a few times in the 90s, and under Doug we didn't take the necessary steps - but I'm confident the ownership we have now will do what is necessary to get us there.

Again you are doing your homework on this brilliantly.

We are a decade behind even the likes of Spurs commercially so no good really comparing to Man. United who grasped all this in the early 90s when we were still being run like a corner shop.

Back page of the Times today has Man. United's wage bill at 313m. However that accounts for 40% of their annual revenue.

So that is why they can spend what they can when they finish 15th and we are limited by what we can do when we finish 6th.

I would say we need messers Calvo and Olabe to overachieve in their jobs in next three years like Emery has. If they put in similar performances to Monchi and Heck we won't be progressing against the rules as much as we need to.