FFP

[AV84]

It's on a couple of back pages tomorrow. I think we all knew there was some very specific business being done with that deal. I didn't realise it was that serious though.

[Dave]

So you can break the rules in the Championship but only so long as you break them enough to get promoted...

...unless you're Nottingham Forest. In which case the losses you made while in the Championship are still going to be counted in the decision to deduct you points in the Premier League.

[Percy McCarthy]

Theres a story on tomorrows star revealing how close we were to a 10 points deduction and the luiz sale last minute prevented that.

Our finances must have been a mess - probably explains why we got rid of diaby after only a season

Gives more credence to the West Ham pulling out of the Duran deal story, forcing us to sell Luiz pronto.

I doubt it. Selling Luiz was much more lucrative than Duran, seeing as he was almost pure profit, which is why he’d been designated as the preferred sale for some time.

[Percy McCarthy]

Theres a story on tomorrows star revealing how close we were to a 10 points deduction and the luiz sale last minute prevented that.

Our finances must have been a mess - probably explains why we got rid of diaby after only a season

Six points with the potential of reduction as shown with the Everton appeal and Nottingham. One of those to prefer not to lose points as it can make a difference at the end. And I expect they don't think not having Luiz will cost us those in the season either.

Yes, I was gonna say, 10 points is way over the top. When Everton got their reduction, part of the reasoning was you only get 9 for administration, so it can never be that high for a PSR breach, never mind higher.

[Clampy]

It puts into focus what a difficult job Monchi sometimes has instead of 'he's not as good as we thought he was' that's been banded about.

[coreyfeldman]

Also hopefully puts to a stop to some of the idiotic "has our pants pulled down for dougie" nonsense

[Toronto Villa]

It puts into focus what a difficult job Monchi sometimes has instead of 'he's not as good as we thought he was' that's been banded about.

Yep. Needing everything to align just bring a player in. I’m sure there wasn’t a long line up for Kellyman at £20m for example. But Chelsea being Chelsea paid a stupid fee, stuck him in box never to be seen again, and then had us splash out £35m or so on Maatsen. Everything was just a numbers game. Like in their right mind is paying £9m for Dobbin. But we did so Tim could go for the same deal on the books. And in scratching backs we get Onana for fee reputedly less than something they could have got from other club.

[Percy McCarthy]

It puts into focus what a difficult job Monchi sometimes has instead of 'he's not as good as we thought he was' that's been banded about.

Yep. Needing everything to align just bring a player in. I’m sure there wasn’t a long line up for Kellyman at £20m for example. But Chelsea being Chelsea paid a stupid fee, stuck him in box never to be seen again, and then had us splash out £35m or so on Maatsen. Everything was just a numbers game. Like in their right mind is paying £9m for Dobbin. But we did so Tim could go for the same deal on the books. And in scratching backs we get Onana for fee reputedly less than something they could have got from other club.

Judging by how he’s started we could well end up getting the £13m for Tim. And he’ll still be a bargain for them.

[Villafirst]

Meanwhile you can break the rules 115 times at a certain club and carry on as normal. Strange that there's no deadline to worry about.

[frank black]

Also hopefully puts to a stop to some of the idiotic "has our pants pulled down for dougie" nonsense

They did though, understandable though given we had bugger all choice. They got him cheap and we’ll probably never see those swap players in our first team.

[Demitri_C]

Yeah it paints a bleak picture of the finances we were in. It explains then why we have effectively bought in cheaper players like barkley, and JP.

Although im not happy about the luiz and diaby sale i think i can finally accept it based on reading this. I didnt really it was THIS bad.

But our finances must have got a but better if we could spend 50m on one player though

[Demitri_C]

From athletic


MONCHI AND VIDAGANY ADDRESS ASTON VILLA’S PSR PUZZLE, KEEPING EMERY HAPPY, AND TRANSFER DEALS

The morning after the transfer window shut, Monchi and Damian Vidagany arrived downstairs at the team hotel to meet a small group of journalists.

Aston Villa were playing Leicester City in the afternoon, but minds had been focused on the business of the day before and throughout the summer. Monchi, president of football operations, and Vidagany, director of football, were tasked with navigating Villa through the profit and sustainability (PSR) issues while needing to upgrade the squad to be capable of competing in the Champions League.

In an hour-long conversation, Monchi and Vidagany explained the complexities and contradictions Villa faced when adhering to PSR, how close the club was to possible points deductions, the thinking behind departures and incomings, and their overall view on how successful recruitment was.

Here, The Athletic details what Villa’s senior decision-makers said and the context behind what they meant.

ON ... VILLA’S PSR PREDICAMENT

The Athletic: Vidagany and Monchi led Villa’s attempt to arrest PSR issues. Villa had two deadlines this summer: pre-June 30, which was the end of the previous PSR accounting period, and August 30, the final day of the transfer window.

As The Athletic outlined in January, the summer of 2024 was gearing up to be a dangerous one as Villa had been covered by the £100million sale of homegrown product Jack Grealish in 2021. This time, and even with Champions League riches, Villa had to find a way to make up for the loss-making. There was a possibility that if Monchi and Vidagany did not act, Villa could have faced a 10-point deduction.

Vidagany: "I don’t want to disclose exactly the figures, but at the end of the season, we found ourselves in a situation where we had to do an important number in profit to avoid being in breach of PSR. It’s not about just having to sell the players that are providing you profit, but at the same time — and this is the most challenging thing — the players that Unai considers not crucial for the team.”

Monchi: "It’s important to understand in this window we have two different moments. Before June 30, we needed to find the solution for financial fair play and after June 30, we needed to build the best squad possible. The last seven days of June maybe was the worst moment because we had a big responsibility.”

Vidagany: "You need to find the solution for a problem. We found a moment when everybody was cheering and celebrating the Champions League, but Monchi and I were at the party thinking how not to spoil this beautiful year by having a points deduction. There was a bomb with the countdown, and we were there to cut the cable.”

The Athletic: Similarly to Jack Grealish, a straightforward way of remedying PSR fears was to sell another homegrown product for substantial money, registering as pure bookable profit. In this case, it was Jacob Ramsey. Alternatively, it could have been a marquee player like Emi Martinez or Ollie Watkins — Monchi says they had offers for the former. However, knowing Villa’s matter of urgency, some clubs offered fees for players below their market value.

Vidagany: "We had to take decisions that wouldn’t condition us too much for the rest of the period because if we sold whatever it took — let’s say Ramsey — it would not be at the best price, but clubs knew our weakness.”

Monchi: "If we sold Ramsey, it (PSR) would be solved. And we could (have) because we had offers.”

Vidagany: “We needed to manage the solution of PSR but not take out one of Unai’s most important players.”

Monchi: "Another solution was to put onto the market Watkins. It’s an easy solution as he’s a top striker. Or to sell the best goalkeeper in the world because we had offers for Martinez.”

Vidagany: "To sell (Ezri) Konsa, to sell (Leon) Bailey… The priority was to solve PSR, but we should not compromise the success of the next season.”

The Athletic: Villa instead looked for creative ways to resolve PSR, which included separate player transactions. Villa signed Ian Maatsen from Chelsea, while Omari Kellyman went the other way. The same happened with Everton between Lewis Dobbin and Tim Iroegbunam. Most notably, Douglas Luiz was sold to Juventus, with Enzo Barrenechea and Samuel Iling-Junior — who both ended up leaving on loan — joining Villa.

Vidagany: "Some clubs who didn’t have the problem tried to take advantage. This is important because this is a jungle and everyone looks for their interest. This is normal. But the key deal was Douglas Luiz.

“This is the worst market in history because we were so pressured by time, by the weakness you are showing, and because there are many actors in the deals. If one of the domino pieces jumps out of the line, you won’t complete it. That’s why it was very difficult. It was not only one agent, one player, but three agents, three players, two clubs. It’s like an exponential problem.”


ON… THE JUVENTUS PLAYER TRADES

Vidagany: "Samuel and Enzo are young players we trust. Maybe we knew they wouldn’t be ready to play for us immediately, but both are young, talented, sustainable salaries and in the next year they’re going to be good assets. We were very worried because we needed to do other deals. Why? First, we were not sure because the PSR is changing. It depends on the cash flow, the revenue, your last ticketing, a new shirt sponsor, whatever. So the number was fluid. But if you go £1million over the limit, you have a deduction. Monchi and I travelled to Italy in the last week of May. We got a pre-agreement (with Juventus for Douglas Luiz), but the final signature happened on June 30. It was a rollercoaster.”

Monchi: "Douglas was in the USA with Brazil for the Copa America. He needed to do the medical and sign the contract… crazy.”

Vidagany: "There was one sleepless night. They played in Vegas and then after the game they were supposed to go to a hotel where he was signing the contract, but Brazil’s national team stopped them from going to Vegas as they were scared about partying. From the moment we shook hands with (Cristiano) Giuntoli from Juventus (their sporting director) until the final signing, it was one month.”


ON… SIGNING PLAYERS TO PLEASE EMERY AND THE CONTRADICTIONS OF PSR

Vidagany: :The one deal that became clear for us was Maatsen. Monchi and Unai decided we needed a different left-back, more offensive.”

Monchi: "We needed to wait because (Borussia) Dortmund had an option to buy Maatsen. When it finished…”

The Athletic: Kellyman’s ’s exit cut deep but, from Villa’s perspective, played to the theory that PSR incentivises selling homegrown talents.

Journalist: Did you target selling Kellyman and Iroegbunam because it was pure profit?

Vidagany: "No, because the PSR system makes it more attractive for the club to sell and buy academy players. Why? They are pure profit from the sales and cheap salaries for the buys. PSR was created to protect the stability and sustainability of the league, but it’s not perfect. It has a big failure and that’s pushing the clubs to do deals, sometimes not naturally. To sell an academy player you raise, in whom you have invested a lot of human capital, a lot of years, is not natural.”

Monchi: "If you play in Europe, you can have a problem. You need to have four club-trained home-grown players in your squad. This season, we can have only 23 players because we only have two: Jacob (Ramsey) and Jaden (Philogene). If Omari was here, we could have 24 or 25.”

Vidagany: "PSR and SCR (Squad Cost Ratio) from UEFA are not matching.”

The Athletic: SCR is when clubs are restricted in the percentage of their turnover they can spend on transfer fees and salaries. Next season it is 90 per cent of turnover before reducing to 70 per cent turnover from the 2025-26 campaign.

Vidagany: "They are two different parcels in two different hands. SCR forces you to sell expensive players. For instance, to decrease our ratio of cost, we had a great deal that was (Moussa) Diaby to Al Ittihad. Even though he cost a lot, the fact we sold him for big money means we don’t have a big profit. So we have to sell expensive players. But if you want to stick to PSR, you have to sell cheaper players and academy players. It’s almost impossible to match both. The EPL is not aligned with UEFA rules.

“Don’t forget, it’s not about signing players but extending the contracts of Watkins, (John) McGinn, Konsa, Mings, Bailey, Emi. We extend the contracts of the most important players with higher salaries. Why? Because they are performing well. This increases the cost. In our case, this is the most difficult thing. We have (Emiliano) Buendia, (Tyrone) Mings, (Boubacar) Kamara and Ramsey — four players, three very expensive — and we didn’t have the asset because they were injured. We had to replace them with Clement Lenglet and Nicolo Zaniolo.”

The Athletic: Again, Vidagany explains the jarring nature of PSR and SCR rules and their contradictions. Vidagany remarks on the additional financial pressures Villa encountered following four long-term injuries to key players, having to pay their salaries in full (unlike some other sports, such as the NFL, which can restructure contracts, so not all the money in their contract is guaranteed) while having to source replacements.

Monchi: "We had four objectives. First: find a solution for the PSR. That’s the most important. Second: to have a younger squad. Three: to have a deeper squad. Why? Because we need to play more competitions. The fourth was to be aligned with what Unai wants.”

Vidagany: "We have to make sure that all this food we are cooking is liked by Unai. He was aware of all the transfer situations we had. We spoke for four or five hours every day during his holiday. Ross Barkley was agreed before. Unai shared with Monchi over Morgan Rogers: ‘I like this guy’, so we decided to sign him. He was a market opportunity. I don’t want to blame anyone, but the most difficult thing is we were a team that, two years ago, was fighting for the top 10. The club recruited many players for that goal.

“But suddenly we became a European contender and a Champions League contender. The majority of the players were not at the level we were demanding for this new Villa. It takes a lot of time, sacrifices and work to sell players. The list is long of very good players that were also good professionals but not suitable for the manager and his demand of this club.”

ON… SIGNING AMADOU ONANA AND THE BALANCE OF THE SQUAD

Vidagany: "During this period, Unai identified a very important position to cover, a No 6. Last season after the Kamara injury, if you see the numbers, it is not a secret we conceded a lot more goals and were weaker in defence.

Monchi: "The priority, for me.”

Vidagany: "When Kamara comes back, we need a player who can play with him. When Kamara is not here, we need a player who can play alone. When Onana is not, Kamara can play. I do not want to go into the figures (on Onana). The first request we received, we said OK and didn’t talk to Everton for one month because it was impossible. But then the market moved and Onana wanted to come to Villa. We had an impression when Onana understood what Unai wanted from him — he was rejecting one of the top, top clubs in this country. The manager of that club met Onana, and Onana said he wanted to go to Villa. It was a sign of commitment.

“I always say to Unai, ‘We cannot have everything you want in one market. Not in two markets, three markets’. Now we are close to the idea he wants. It is not a perfect squad.”

Monchi: “We are happy with the squad — one to play in different competitions.”

The Athletic: There is an acceptance that Villa are light in certain areas, particularly defence, and are hamstrung by PSR restrictions and the time it takes to evolve a squad. Villa are still transitioning from players who had been part of previous regimes and those Emery sees with diminishing value. There has been a huge turnover in the number of outgoings, with Vidagany and Monchi believing they are closer to the overall make-up of the team Emery, the key figure, desires.

ON… IF VILLA WILL HAVE PSR ISSUES NEXT YEAR AND SELLING PLAYERS

Vidagany: "No, this season is the last one with PSR as it is. We are going to be in a situation where we don’t know because it depends a lot on the revenues we are going to receive from the Champions League. We don’t know how much we are going to get from the Champions League. You only know what you need at the end of the season.”

Monchi: "We need to consider the profit as revenue and to consider in future that to sell a player is revenue. Because we cannot have more revenue. When Damian worked in Valencia and I worked in Sevilla, it was OK to increase the level by selling players. The most important thing is not selling players: the most important thing is to buy good players. We are not afraid to sell players, but we had to do it within a plan. We need to sell players because (Manchester) City sell players, Arsenal sell players, Real Madrid and Barcelona sell players. The most important thing is to have a buyer and then buy a player to replace them.”

Vidagany: "There was a difference with Monchi or during my time with Valencia when we were selling the best players and buying others who were cheaper. We didn’t have the resources to pay the players because the club had a revenue and if your expenses were bigger than your income then, in a few years, you would go bankrupt. Now that’s not the case with Villa because our owners would like to invest, they would like to be at the top, but they are not allowed to do it. You cannot put money up front, you cannot guarantee money — the Premier League says, ‘No, no no’, it’s their business model. If you have losses, you cannot spend.”

The Athletic: Once more, their frustrations are aired towards PSR limitations and why Villa, in short, being a Champions League club without Champions League revenue restricts how much the club’s willing owners can spend because their revenue is inferior to most others in the competition. Therefore, they are not permitted to spend comparable amounts. There is an acknowledgement that Villa will sell important players with an onus to replace well.

Journalist: If the rules didn’t exist, would the owners have invested big money this summer?

Vidagany: “If there was no PSR, the window would have been absolutely different. I don’t think there would be a big difference in the players we would bring in. Perhaps we’d bring in one more because we could do it. However, we could sell better, without the pressure of PSR. We could have sold Douglas Luiz for more and with no rush.”

The Athletic: Villa believe Emery’s excellence in breaking the top four ceiling means they should be allowed to spend more money. Yet the club feel thwarted because they do not have the revenues of others. The fear is that Villa become stuck in a holding pattern. One key way to grow revenue is through the proposed stadium redevelopment, but this was shelved due to short-term needs.

Vidagany: "We have no debt. We are a club that is balanced with committed owners. We don’t owe money to anyone, but clubs with more revenue but huge debts can spend much more than us. Where is the sense in that? Let me know… Many clubs borrow money. We don’t have this problem, but we still can’t spend.

“The system is perversion because it doesn’t matter how committed your owners are, how wealthy they are or how good your accounts are. You are not allowed to grow because you don’t have more revenues. To get revenue, what do you need? To win. What do you need to win? To spend. But you can not spend. So if you don’t spend, you don’t win, you don’t get revenue and you stay in the same cycle always.”

Journalist: What would your solution to PSR be?

Vidagany: "The Premier League is dealing with the approval of a new system, which will be aligned to UEFA. It will be like spending 85 per cent of your revenue. The only possibility to get out of this loop of winning to get revenue to then get players is to get a miracle like what Unai is doing.”

[sid1964]

Having read the above Athletic article - interesting comment that we would have sold Luiz this summer, even if we did not have PSR issues.

[Nev]

This is all over the back pages, seems odd because we don't get that level of media coverage but then it is International Week I suppose. It does strike me that this is a deliberate ploy by the club, in agreeing to the interview with the Athletic and it's amplification elsewhere, to shine a light on how ludicrous the situation we find ourselves in, is.

Not that I can see it making any difference...

[Demitri_C]

I think heck not expanding the stadium is one of the biggest mistakes the clubs made.

That would have grown revenue. If he said ok we wnat to extend stadium but after CL campaign as we want all fans there for this then i think everyone would have been good with that.

These new lower grounds TV etc are generating revenue but speaking to people a majority say its worth doing once or twice but thats it. Not value for money.

Expansion of stadium would have been a better long term plan