West Ham vs Aston Villa post match thread

[olaftab]

Have those PGMOL ****** apologised yet?

Why would PGMOL deign to apologise to the likes of us? They would need humility and self-reflection to do that.

Yes and it would also recognise that may be the game is all about fans and that would be a terrible admission.

[fredm]

Watching last night I had not realised that Villa had joined a "walking football" league.  West Ham were there for the taking if we had upped our game and moved both ourselves and the ball a damn sight quicker.  Need to have a bit of Bielsa style injected into them. Throughout the team, but with some more than others, there was a general apathy to up the tempo and I genuinely thought at half time that Smith would have got stuck into them and we would see a different team in the second half.  But no, just the same as before.  I am beginning to think that there are certain players who believe they are too good to be dropped.  Well they need to be told in no uncertain terms what the position is.  They are good enough to reach a decent league position but need to put in the hard graft to succeed.

[Axl Rose]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12147701/var-debate-jamie-carragher-and-gary-neville-demand-changes-after-aston-villa-equaliser-ruled-out

I love how in the article Declan Rice says the West Ham players are “laid back” about VAR and how David Moyes says the decision was right even though he admits Watkins was being fouled. Fuck off. Let’s see how laid back they are when it happens to them. Because it will.

I agree TV. Rice is an absolute gobshite. He didn't appear laid back last night when the penalty was awarded; looked like a maniac on acid.
Moyes can fuck off too. Looks like a used tissue.

[gpbarr]

Was so frustrated last night, thought I’d wait a day. Glad I did.

Overall, we are so much better than we were a year ago and that’s clear, despite the result. Last night was just one of those - we were by far the better team (both managers said so), created some great chances, looked assured for the majority of the game, and stats showed our dominance in almost all areas of the game. Keep doing that and, it’s inevitable the results and the bigger picture will continue to head in the right direction.

Where we need to improve:

1. Squad depth - out of form players like Mings need to feel they will be dropped if they can’t maintain the form required. Right now the competition isn’t strong enough

2. Composure - we need to keep working to reduce the individual, silly errors that come from the mental side of the game (missing penalties, sloppy back passes, casual early goals given away etc)

3. Home tactics - we have looked so much better away from home because we are set up to play on the counter. At home we have looked poor when having to take the game to the opposition and have been picked off too easy - need to adapt our play and me more patient while at home

In summary I feel good today - too easy to dwell on the negatives after a game like that but we made West Ham look very ordinary (and not many teams have don’t that - thus why they are 5th) and on another day, would have won handily.

Two big games coming up - we need to take the positives and turn that into 6 points

UTV

[AlexAlexCropley]

Didn't like the way the Spam players hounded the ref after every decision against them.Like a moany nineties Utd.

[Chris Smith]

Didn't like the way the Spam players hounded the ref after every decision against them.Like a moany nineties Utd.

Agreed, he is relatively inexperienced at PL level and didn’t seem to know how to deal with it and they took advantage.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Didn't like the way the Spam players hounded the ref after every decision against them.Like a moany nineties Utd.

Agreed, he is relatively inexperienced at PL level and didn’t seem to know how to deal with it and they took advantage.

His 10th game I think I heard. He had a shocker.

[brontebilly]

Didn't like the way the Spam players hounded the ref after every decision against them.Like a moany nineties Utd.

Didn't seem to effect the referee that much, still gave us a softish penalty (but right decision). Thought West Ham should have had two more yellow cards minimum, Haller had a nasty enough rake down Ming's calf and Coufal surely deserved one for repeat fouling on Jack. Thought ref did ok to be honest, booked the two clowns on the bench too.

[rougegorge]

Didn't like the way the Spam players hounded the ref after every decision against them.Like a moany nineties Utd.

Didn't seem to effect the referee that much, still gave us a softish penalty (but right decision). Thought West Ham should have had two more yellow cards minimum, Haller had a nasty enough rake down Ming's calf and Coufal surely deserved one for repeat fouling on Jack. Thought ref did ok to be honest, booked the two clowns on the bench too.

Well he booked one of theirs and John Terry

[ktvillan]

I'm surprised people are criticising some players and saying our tempo was too slow.  I thought we played some lovely incisive stuff at times, carved the open several times and created plenty of chances.  Watkins looked a a duffer at times (the one he put past the post, the free header off target and especially the pen) but also had some lovely touches and did brilliantly to set up Trezeguet.  McGinn, Mings, Targett and Hourahan also made positive contributions as well as the odd ricket or dodgy decision.

The problem is all the above counts for nothing if you make schoolboy errors in defence - they invariably get punished at this level - and miss sitters.  Like in many sports it's often those that make the fewest errors that come out on top, and we make far too many.

Most frustrating is Trezeguet, who,  after looking utterly hopeless last season, has shown he can play a bit recently and he gets into great positions match after match.  But he wastes his good work by almost always finding a way to miss completely or hit it straight at the keeper.  If he could just calm down,  aim for the corner or throw a little feint to put the keeper/defender off, he'd score bucketloads. But no, it's always head down and blast it, or fumble it like he did last night.  He totally and utterly lacks composure of any description, and we need better.   

Watkins also needs to take more if his chances too but he has got a fair few and he's new to this level so perhaps should be cut a little slack.

Not convinced by Traore yet but perhaps he needs a few full games.   

 

[brontebilly]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12147701/var-debate-jamie-carragher-and-gary-neville-demand-changes-after-aston-villa-equaliser-ruled-out

I love how in the article Declan Rice says the West Ham players are “laid back” about VAR and how David Moyes says the decision was right even though he admits Watkins was being fouled. Fuck off. Let’s see how laid back they are when it happens to them. Because it will.

I agree TV. Rice is an absolute gobshite. He didn't appear laid back last night when the penalty was awarded; looked like a maniac on acid.
Moyes can fuck off too. Looks like a used tissue.

Rice was rubbish last night as was Soucek. We utterly dominated midfield with Luiz outstanding.

[Astnor]

Agree with all of yours there ktvillan. I will though put in some good words for Watkins. His speed to run himself free on the flanks and also past players on the flank. Also his taking the long high pass ball down with his feet when tight marked from two big central defendres can be exeptional and also then play himself out of a crowded place. I like him, hope he gets even better.

[PeterWithe]

I thought the most notable thing about Rice was that he managed to be interviewed for five minutes afterward without saying anything of even mild interest.

[RamboandBruno]

we may have lost 4 out  of 5 but we shouldn’t have
That’s the difference from previous seasons

can’t remember being so pissed of with a performance than last night
to many players need to take a look at themselves

Mings, Target, McGinn, Watkins, Trez none of them are under any pressure of losing their place in the first 11 because we have no quality to replace them
but we should have won easily last night against a side who play Bruce ball
these players let themselves and the club down, it’s not good enough

I dont put Conor in that group because he’s very limited and can’t do any better,
he is what he is out of his depth but that’s not his fault

West Ham are not a good football side yet they are 5 th in the league ffs
Opportunity missed again

That's pretty much where I am, John though I was more pissed off with the result against one of the poorest teams we've played this season. West Ham look like a pub team with big blokes that try to bully the opposition. If Rice can make the England team there's hope for everybody, every ball backwards. The really are horrible to watch and reminded me of a Pulis team.

I echo the thoughts on here about VAR, it's become nonsense.

The one thing that did shine out bright last night was where we are weak in this team and where we need to upgrade. Mings with his Cruyff turns is fooling nobody except himself and his lack of marking at free kicks and corners has been highlighted on here numerous times in the past. Despite playing for England he's not showing any real signs of progressing and he needs to massively improve if we are to reach our potential.

Targett was obviously saving himself for the Newcastle game as he was like a statue for most of the game. I'd love to see his stats from last night. I've walked the dog further than he moved. We really need better.

The midfield could do with some strength in there. Physically it was men against boys as West Ham bullied SJM, Dougie and Conor. Soucek would have been ideal for us in the summer.

Ollie is work in progress. I'm sure he will make it but he still has so much to add to his game starting with close control. Too often the ball just bounces off him. He'll improve but right now it can be so frustrating. His passing too has plenty of space to improve. It would be great to have an option at least on the bench.

Trez can't be allowed to keep on missing sitters. During the game last night I couldn't help thinking what a team we'd be if we had a decent winger. We need quality not just energy. It's another position that would be on my shopping list. I'm not holding my breath on Traore. Maybe we'll go back for the Serbian in January.

Overall I don't see why this team can't finish in the top 8 this season other than lack of squad depth or fucking VAR. Dropping three easy points last night doesn't help but at least the foundations are there to build on. Comparisons with last season are wrong. Last year we were mainly a shambles, this year we need some fine tuning, the only problem is the parts are hard to find and generally expensive.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot Jack. One or two dives last night don't help him as refs will see it and think he's an actor when in fact he gets kicked from pillow to post. The ref last night was shocking and completely lost control of the game, allowing West Ham to take him out the game on a regular basis and not do anything about it.

Partially agree with what your saying here, particularly points made on Mings and Trez and the potential of a top 8 finish. Don’t see where your coming from on the midfield, thought our midfield in particular jack and luiz completely bossed it last night, where we were bullied we invariably won free kicks. Thought McGinn was half decent and hourihane despite being a bit of a whipping boy on here, passed it crisply and was unlucky with his two free kicks, he’s not as good as Barklay mind and we lose a huge cutting edge without him.
Targett another whipping boy, did nothing wrong for me last night. I really like Matty cash and his commitment, but for me he’s been to a degree at fault for letting Ings and the Brighton lad cut in and shoot recently and last night he stood too far off Benhrama and let him easily put in a nice cross for their second. He also turned back more often than not when he got over the half line, maybe not having confidence in himself, whereas Targett does get balls crossed in the box.
Watkins has stepped up a division and is not the finished article, but already for me has the potential to be the best striker we’ve had since Benteke. Much better all round player in this league than Kodja and not showing any signs of being worse than Abraham

[SoccerHQ]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/12147701/var-debate-jamie-carragher-and-gary-neville-demand-changes-after-aston-villa-equaliser-ruled-out

I love how in the article Declan Rice says the West Ham players are “laid back” about VAR and how David Moyes says the decision was right even though he admits Watkins was being fouled. Fuck off. Let’s see how laid back they are when it happens to them. Because it will.

I agree TV. Rice is an absolute gobshite. He didn't appear laid back last night when the penalty was awarded; looked like a maniac on acid.
Moyes can fuck off too. Looks like a used tissue.

The internet is so easy to call out hypocrites sometimes. All I did was type Rice and VAR!

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/11905843/declan-rice-calls-for-var-to-be-scrapped-after-west-ham-goal-ruled-out-handball-rule-a-joke-says-jamie-carragher